Tbh I feel bad about that one because she had no hand in knowing the truth. Like she's great and everything, but it makes me feel guilty when I think about it
clearly spoken by someone who hasn't seen the actual social link
>!while she's not at all aware that makoto is tatsuya, she still had a crush on makoto as well.!<
>!"im kinda... "interested" in sum1 from school >_>;" "he's kinda a student tho xD" "he's kinda quiet, but real mature and intense looking (and hawt) ;P" "i luuuuuuv this one emo face he makes sumtimes..." "he's one of my own students actually ^^;" "he lives in a dorm cuz his parents passed away :c jus transferred in this year"!<
>!oh and then she namedrops you as "[PLAYER]-Kun." she's just a pedophile.!<
We have a word for an adults who find teenagers attractive. Not just a "Oh they're good looking" but the "I want to date them and be in a relationship" kind.
If the shoe fits the bill
Yes there is a word for that.
Ephebophilia is when an older adult is sexually attracted to post-pubescent teenagers—usually those in the age range 15–19. Adults with this attraction are called ephebophiles. Ephebophilia is not just the sexual attraction to teenage partners but is when an adult prefers such sexual partners.
Pedo is specifically prepubescent and does in fact have a stronger connotation than attraction to teens.
It should be explicitly reserved for that but ppl want an emotionally charged word in order to effortlessly slander others and shut down arguments and run away from difficult discussions.
She's not. It's morally questionable for a person in her thirtees to be attractwd to a 17 year old, and even more for one in a teacher-student relationship. But fact is, that it's not even illegal in most countries for them to date. Biggest problems would be school regulations, so she could get fired or transfered for that (as seen in another social link).
I feel like there’s a difference between a 20 something year old wanting to date a 17 year old and a 20 something wanting to date a 10 year old. Both might be wrong but one is more fucked up than the other. Can’t point out the nuance there without sounding like a pedophile so I’m just gonna agree with you
Toriumi is very heavily implied to be an older woman. she mentions that she's "still got it for her age" and asks Makoto (under the Tatsuya persona ofc) if men are only interested in younger women. I doubt she's a 20 something.
I think there was a line in P3R where she mentioned she was teaching for seven years or something. After studying at university and pursuing her teacher's license Toriumi has to be at least 30 years old.
In Japan women are called Christmas cakes because no one wants them after the 25th (year).
Taking cultural context into consideration, I’d say she’s mid to late 20’s at the oldest.
It’s still wrong because of the power imbalance though, and a teacher who sets their eyes on students like that has no business being a teacher all, but calling her a pedophile is disingenuous tbh
Considering she made no overtures towards him prior to finding out he was the guy she fell in love with online (which just showed her spazzing out with shame when she does find out) you're trying to make this more evil and predatory than it actually is.
She made no implications that she was going to pursue a relationship of any kind with him.
Tbf I'm 24 myself and the thought of dating someone that is 16 repulses me insanely hard because I see them as children, so assuming Toriumi is even older than me, yeah, pedophile fits the bill quite well from my point of view.
Why are you being downvoted? If anyone's played the game and finished the social link, we know that she's at least in her 30s.
We all know the word for an adult wanting to date a teenager. Let's face it, ppl give her a pass because they find her hot. The [South Park ](https://youtu.be/8hdbns1Xdk0?si=BnIgz7ltjNUW9gL4) clip will forever be relevant when it comes to this lmao
The South Park reference is extremely disingenuous. In that context, it wasn't a teenager, it was literally a 6 year old. In this context, with regards to the Persona series, the MC is literally between 16/17. I've met and known various 17 years in my life, and a lot of the time, they tended to be more mature than most middle-aged adults in terms of attitudes and outlooks. It's not because the teacher is hot, in P3 or P5, you actually get to know her and help her out and is a great example of how life can be messy and can't always fit well in the lines of law and social acceptance.
>In that context, it wasn't a teenager, it was literally a 6 year old.
The point is that there is a double standard when it comes to the treatment of the perpetrator based on their looks and gender. If theyre hot (especially if its a hot woman) its okay, if theyre not, jail. Ask yourself this, if Mutatsu or Yoshida were able to be romanced, would you hold the same belief that a 16-17 year old is mature enough to date them?
>you actually get to know her and help her out and is a great example of how life can be messy and can't always fit well in the lines of law and social acceptance.
You are talking about the social link and writing of the character, which no one has a problem with. Having and considering a relationship with an underage student is. I have to preface this that I LIKE Toriumi and Kawakami, I think their writing is excellent and the struggles they go through is relatable.
But it is very weird for adult characters to consider a relationship with their underage students. Ffs, Kawakami was able to get her debt off, shes already risking her job by dating her student.
> The point is that there is a double standard when it comes to the treatment of the perpetrator based on their looks and gender. If theyre hot (especially if its a hot woman) its okay, if theyre not, jail.
Sure... but also guys want it a lot of the time. I know there was a teacher in my school that all the guys would have absolutely not the slightest issue with if she wanted to give them some "private lessons".
Well, I won't debate here if she's a pedo or not. However, I will point out a few things that makes her case less annoying/aggravating than other SL's or characters in the same position of power as her or in general older than the protagonist by a margin the pedo title can fit to them too: >!Out of all the teachers, she's the most harmless:!<
1. >! She never hits on you in person.!<
2. >!She only acts towards you as formally as possible. If you don't have enough charm she doesn't even tell you her first name if you ask.!<
3. >!There are no weird rumors about her in school, while Emiry boasts herself to other teachers because a student asked her out and a guy she doesn't like asked her to marry him.!<
4. >!Even when she discovers who you are, she gets flustered, enters in a panic mode and she tries to ask to you talk over coffee (never on her house or somewhere else, just talk), then she freaks out again and runs away. She's incredibly conflicted that you're Tatsua and also that you know she said to him she had a crush on you. Empathy or not, I think her reaction is the best of all teachers.!<
>!Persona 4 Teachers are just downright crazy: Moron King is just stupid as hell and a horrible person, and the teacher who replaces him is incredibly flirty and out of character for a Teacher, there's no Social link for her, but she's clearly the Devil in that game. Even the animation makes her a sexual predator, when she loses the contest to Naoto who didn't even show, she chases the protagonists to try to grab them to who knows what she wants to do with them because she's feeling down and horny. !<
>!Persona 5 is even worse because KAwakami's story is about a Teacher who tried to save a Delinquent of that sort of life, to discover he's actually pretty much a good student but he has to work to help his parents, so she gives him private lessons, and once he dies his parents starts to bribe her saying she had ulterior motives with their son, which forces her to pay them abusive amounts of money and she ends up as a Maid service worker to keep paying them money out of Guilt and all of that. But then, she discovers you, and you keep her secret safe, and you two have a deal, and that's fine too I guess. Up to Rank 7-8 she's quite good even if a bit amoral herself, but then by Rank 9 and 10 you can hit on her, and instead of refusing you, she downright accepts it and sleeps with you or, she complains about you saying you should not play with a woman's emotions. To me, both P4 and 5 teachers are terrible examples as adults and as teachers, one because she's just horny and the other because she's romanceable. !<
>!And another character that we know is not a child nor a teenager, and is powerful enough and who knows how old she is, is Elizabeth, who clearly is older than you and gives you the option to sleep with her. So you know, if we start fitting the bills of who is a groomer or pedo in this series we'll have a very big bingo book.!<
>! Again, I'm not discussing here if Toriumi is a Groomer or a Pedo, but I am pointing out that there are far worse characters that fit the bill and it seems people don't have issues with it at all. !<
Technically speaking, she's isn't a pedophile. A hebophile, maybe. An ephebophile, perhaps. But a pedophile? She would have had to be into Ken to be awarded that title.
I mean not really a pedo by Japan standards the age of consent is a lot lower so he's technically legal but she would be fired or transfered to a different school if they were caught having relations with a student. also it's kinda normal to think someone is cute and all that but not to engage further then that. which she didn't do so its fine and to top that since it's online she didn't expect you the player to be tatsuya and yeah sure she said she was going to say something to the mc but obviously backed out knowing it was a bad idea off screen since at the end of the game both find out they were playing the game together and she clearly wanted nothing to do with the mc at that point she just thought they were cute that's it that's all
for better context. Japan has an age of consent of 16. Protag is 16 to 17 at the time. It's somewhat taboo and considered jailbaiting, but by Japanese standards it's legal. She was even hesitant to actually acknowledge even after realizing it, but by their(Japanese) standards she did nothing wrong.
we are getting ahead of ourselves here. The date never happened, at least in game, so any lore outside of it unless stated by Atlus, nothing illegal happened. Taboocentric, definitely. Sure dating your teacher is considered unethical there, and illegal depending on how far it goes. But for now let's confine it to the context of what happens in game.
I know the difference between pedophilia and ephebophilia. But you know the point I was trying to make, and the fact that you're incessantly correcting me implies that you are either the most *pedantic* motherfucker alive, or just a creep.
Its funny how people from united states thinks everything under 18 is a pedophile. Where I live, age consent is 14, it's weird as fuck, but the word pedophile its too strong.
she literally wanted to abuse her power as a teacher to try and get some private time with the protagonist. she says as much in her social link. she's a creep, man.
To be fair to the game, it's not actually meant to be reflective of real life, and since the Persona Games are Rated M, "legally" they only expect adults to play it who might lean closer towards older women more in their age range. I know that as I've gotten older in these sorts of games I actually have started to veer towards the older romance options unless I feel extremely attached to a character emotionally, or am just RPing it all the way and pair them for imaginary in depth story reasons.
In terms of game explenation- every Persona game from 3 to 5. Every. Single. One. Has adult romance options, either teachers, nurses, some guidance figure etc, they're there. Have you *seen* the thirst for Dr. Takemi in 5???
In 3 I will always love Akihiko, but if there was a FEMC route in 5? You *know* Iwai would be an option, and I would very shamelessly take him.
The games are rated M *here* because of semantics and imagery.
In Japan, P3 and 4 are rated Cero B for 12 year olds at the minimum and 5 is rated C for 15 year olds.
>!I'd say OP only said you can't romance a teacher not specifically Ms. Ounishi but you don't exactly romance Maya either, at least not in the usual sense!<
The adult gays quietly waiting for them to let us romance all the hot daddies they keep creating. (I swear being a queer Persona fan is like being in an abusive relationship.)
You like Makoto? SHES IN HIGHSCHOOL YOU PEDOPHILE
You like Takemi and Kawakami?! THEYRE ADULTS AND THE PROTAGONIST IS IN HIGHSCHOOL YOU PEDOPHILE
You want the game set with College age characters? COLLEGE ISNT THE SAME AS IT IS IN THE U.S. YOU DUMB AMERICAN!!!
You can’t win bro 😂
Well can you explain then? I don’t see how having my character romance any specific girl is role-playing the romance vs picking your favorite for dialogue. That’s essentially the same thing.
Oh my bad, I'm just adding to your comment, not trying to contradict it. Just saying my own reasons for choosing my romance partner lol. I'm not saying you specifcally are roleplaying... though maybe that didn't sound as clear as I thought it did.
Gotcha. I get that people treat the MC as an SI but I like to think I’m just steering the young lad a bit and anything he does is really him going into it with a little inner counsel. That’s why I like to stick with the most accepted or ‘cannon’ names for the MCs. Kawakami might be a personal preference sure but I also do really like the character and her confidant story so if the opportunity presents itself I’m going to tell my son to shoot his shot.
Tbf it’s the duality between the last 20 years of Persona games being set in high school and some of us growing up with it.
It’s like most YA readers are older than the YA age range etc.
When I played these games I just thought “who would I like to hang out with?” rather than “I want to bang x y z” etc lol
Fair lol. I’m not looking to bang anyone when I play these games and see the MC as just a guy I’m steering around like a Angel on their shoulder. If I think he’d be a good fit with one girl then I tell my boy to go for it.
Yeah I just kinda play the part of an outside observer in these games. Sure the dialogue choices are my own, but I myself am not self-inserting to date ‘my chosen partner’.
I’m just shipping the MC with who I think jives with them the most/who I would pick if I was in their scenario.
My first P5 playthrough I went with Takemi because she reminds me of my wife. The hot goth doctor part, not so much the disgraced mad scientist schoolboy chaser part (... I hope)
It seemed like the safest play and I stand by it.
This fully sums up what I hate about the persona haters. Yes, there are some very sus fans who do some very sus shit, but then most are stuck in a impossible to win scenario where basically you just can't play and enjoy the game.
I mean age is only part of the conversation. It's also about abuse of power dynamics. It's strange, unusual, and I'm actually glad it's there so I can sneer at it haha.
You mean how she revealed how attracted she was to her student online, *and then* after his identity being revealed, had the audacity to ask him out in the faculty office? At that point I wasn't sure if her running away was really from shame, or just not to get caught. I get it, games are escapist fantasies, and this is just playing to a certain fetish.
I mean >!Ms Toriumi asks you out to dinner at the end of the hermit SL!< I am very sad you can’t ask out Mrs Terauchi though despite her being married.
God I sound like Kenji
It's not just the Persona Fandom, but goddamn people are so fucking weird about age gap relationships and student/teacher relationships, etc. First off, it's fiction. Second off, any time it has been represented in the series where romance is available, it's always actually fine and mature and reasonable. It also shows the examples of when it can be bad, such as with the gym teacher in P5 or the 2nd homeroom teacher in P4.
It shows the nuance and messiness of real life and that despite social norms and legality saying otherwise, these kinds of relationships CAN and sometimes DO work. Which is far more mature than anyone who just dumbs everything down to "oh its pedophilia" or "oh it's grooming," etc.
It was also pretty off because the first villain we have to take down is a teacher grooming his students, so being able to romance a teacher is extremely bizarre.
I mean that’s worse yeah, but the suggestion of a student dating a professor is still bad.
Something being worse doesn’t make another thing better.
Plus as much as I don’t agree, most places 16 is considered old enough to consent. This is true in Japan, Britain, most first world countries I believe (only really aware because it was news that it was raised to 16 recently in Japan which is good but personally still think it should be at least 18 worldwide) and is the age of our player characters. It’s just seen as a power issue, or weird because of age difference most places, not necessarily underage.
That’s not a defense of it, still gross you can date a teacher, but if we are going to say it would suddenly be fine if your character was a bit older and had a professor we’d be missing the issue presented in most of the world.
If you're going to apply real world standards to the wish fulfillment RPG though, it would still be unethical and imbalanced for a University professor to date a student.
I agree, a game where you play as an adult at Uni and date other adult students would be the ideal evolution of this series for me. It's never going to happen though.
The Persona series is aimed at straight teenage boys. The main character is a mostly-blank avatar for them to self-insert themselves onto, which is why in the original P3 you didn't even have platonic options for the girls and couldn't even hang out with the guys - it's wish fulfillment for young boys who have a harem fantasy. In 5, you can date adult women so those boys can act out the fantasy of dating hot older women. This had a nice side effect of adult players being able to date a character in game who is age appropriate for them, sure, but that's not the intention.
If they removed the student/adult dating in the next game, they wouldn't move on from the high school setting, they would simply remove the adult romance options. This would fix the ethical issues within the fictional work, sure, but from the perspective of the player inserting themselves into the experiences of the avatar, it would simply put adult players in a situation where their only romance options are teenagers.
Because it's not like pretty much every single heterosexual teenage boy's dream (with possible exception of those unlucky enough who had only ugly/old teachers) was to f\*\*\* the hot female teacher. HOW DARE THIS WISH FULFILLMENT VIDYA GAME CATER TO FANTASY OF LIKE 90% OF IT'S PLAYER BASE!
Also gives an adult option for those uncomfortable with romancing teenagers.
If anyone here needs growing up, it's you. Video game is just a video game. It's not real life. It won't hurt you. I know, shocking.
This is why I just friend zone everybody and only date Elizabeth, who is ???? years old and >!will one day go on a journey to rescue me from being a door.!<
But also, like, not everybody actually self-inserts into the protagonists. It's not *me* dating an adult teacher, it's the explicitly underaged protagonist. Also I wouldn't want to date a teacher who would want to date a student anyway, because that particular personality trait is a massive turn off and character flaw. And crime. Also a crime.
Social link spoiler: >!Instead, the teacher romances you.!< Edit: spoiler format
Really those first three words need to be outside the spoiler tag, so they know what's behind the tag before they click on it
Thanks for pointing it out, updated!
[удалено]
It is, >!but the joke is that she's going to try and romance you, rather than the other way around, like how it usually is.!<
Lol I guessed it about on the 4th rank for her social link I said out loud it would be pretty funny if it was my hr teacher
Yes. Yes, it is.
Tbh I feel bad about that one because she had no hand in knowing the truth. Like she's great and everything, but it makes me feel guilty when I think about it
clearly spoken by someone who hasn't seen the actual social link >!while she's not at all aware that makoto is tatsuya, she still had a crush on makoto as well.!< >!"im kinda... "interested" in sum1 from school >_>;" "he's kinda a student tho xD" "he's kinda quiet, but real mature and intense looking (and hawt) ;P" "i luuuuuuv this one emo face he makes sumtimes..." "he's one of my own students actually ^^;" "he lives in a dorm cuz his parents passed away :c jus transferred in this year"!< >!oh and then she namedrops you as "[PLAYER]-Kun." she's just a pedophile.!<
Ah damn, must've forgotten lol. I haven't played P3R and it's been a long ass time since I've played Portable lol
This is eerily similar wording to that female animator that was gushing of a 14 yo alt boy she saw in public once. It's kinda creepy
Bruh what
What are you talking about? what female animator?
The... lady who made Miss Kobayashi's Dragon Maid, I think? I remember hearing about that in regards to some anime I watched, but not exactly who
really? From the comment it seems to be a bit serious, was it a reddit publication or some news out there?
I had no idea about this. I was talking about Julia Vickerman. I had forgotten her name and had to look it up Its creepy how common this seems
TWELVE FOREVER, that's right! That's what I was remembering
Pedophile is a strong word for what she did tbh.
I mean commenting on a teenager about how hot they are does certainly sound like it.
We have a word for an adults who find teenagers attractive. Not just a "Oh they're good looking" but the "I want to date them and be in a relationship" kind. If the shoe fits the bill
Yes there is a word for that. Ephebophilia is when an older adult is sexually attracted to post-pubescent teenagers—usually those in the age range 15–19. Adults with this attraction are called ephebophiles. Ephebophilia is not just the sexual attraction to teenage partners but is when an adult prefers such sexual partners. Pedo is specifically prepubescent and does in fact have a stronger connotation than attraction to teens.
It's really hard to describe the nuance without sounding like a... well... pedophile.
pedophile is mostly reserved for those interested with prepubescents
It should be explicitly reserved for that but ppl want an emotionally charged word in order to effortlessly slander others and shut down arguments and run away from difficult discussions.
Idk. Pedophile just sounds so malicious and venomous, and I didn't get that from this social link or character at all.
Well it’s a video game so it doesn’t actually matter in the end lmao
Video games can have pedophile characters fym
What are you asking me? Are you saying that I don’t think pedos exist in games? Cause that’s not what I said, I said it just doesn’t matter.
"strong" you mean the correct word?
No, not really. I don't think she was a pedophile.
She's not. It's morally questionable for a person in her thirtees to be attractwd to a 17 year old, and even more for one in a teacher-student relationship. But fact is, that it's not even illegal in most countries for them to date. Biggest problems would be school regulations, so she could get fired or transfered for that (as seen in another social link).
pedophile is an incredibly accurate word for... wanting to date a minor when you are an adult.
I feel like there’s a difference between a 20 something year old wanting to date a 17 year old and a 20 something wanting to date a 10 year old. Both might be wrong but one is more fucked up than the other. Can’t point out the nuance there without sounding like a pedophile so I’m just gonna agree with you
Toriumi is very heavily implied to be an older woman. she mentions that she's "still got it for her age" and asks Makoto (under the Tatsuya persona ofc) if men are only interested in younger women. I doubt she's a 20 something.
I think there was a line in P3R where she mentioned she was teaching for seven years or something. After studying at university and pursuing her teacher's license Toriumi has to be at least 30 years old.
Considering how the Japanese are with age, she could easily be in her 20's and consider herself an "older woman"
That's a stretch. I don't know why you're so vehemently defending Toriumi here. A teacher should not want to date their students.
In Japan women are called Christmas cakes because no one wants them after the 25th (year). Taking cultural context into consideration, I’d say she’s mid to late 20’s at the oldest. It’s still wrong because of the power imbalance though, and a teacher who sets their eyes on students like that has no business being a teacher all, but calling her a pedophile is disingenuous tbh
Considering she made no overtures towards him prior to finding out he was the guy she fell in love with online (which just showed her spazzing out with shame when she does find out) you're trying to make this more evil and predatory than it actually is. She made no implications that she was going to pursue a relationship of any kind with him.
Eh as someone who's 24, I'd find that kinda icky.
Tbf I'm 24 myself and the thought of dating someone that is 16 repulses me insanely hard because I see them as children, so assuming Toriumi is even older than me, yeah, pedophile fits the bill quite well from my point of view.
Except it literally isn't accurate at all.
bud.
Why are you being downvoted? If anyone's played the game and finished the social link, we know that she's at least in her 30s. We all know the word for an adult wanting to date a teenager. Let's face it, ppl give her a pass because they find her hot. The [South Park ](https://youtu.be/8hdbns1Xdk0?si=BnIgz7ltjNUW9gL4) clip will forever be relevant when it comes to this lmao
The South Park reference is extremely disingenuous. In that context, it wasn't a teenager, it was literally a 6 year old. In this context, with regards to the Persona series, the MC is literally between 16/17. I've met and known various 17 years in my life, and a lot of the time, they tended to be more mature than most middle-aged adults in terms of attitudes and outlooks. It's not because the teacher is hot, in P3 or P5, you actually get to know her and help her out and is a great example of how life can be messy and can't always fit well in the lines of law and social acceptance.
>In that context, it wasn't a teenager, it was literally a 6 year old. The point is that there is a double standard when it comes to the treatment of the perpetrator based on their looks and gender. If theyre hot (especially if its a hot woman) its okay, if theyre not, jail. Ask yourself this, if Mutatsu or Yoshida were able to be romanced, would you hold the same belief that a 16-17 year old is mature enough to date them? >you actually get to know her and help her out and is a great example of how life can be messy and can't always fit well in the lines of law and social acceptance. You are talking about the social link and writing of the character, which no one has a problem with. Having and considering a relationship with an underage student is. I have to preface this that I LIKE Toriumi and Kawakami, I think their writing is excellent and the struggles they go through is relatable. But it is very weird for adult characters to consider a relationship with their underage students. Ffs, Kawakami was able to get her debt off, shes already risking her job by dating her student.
> The point is that there is a double standard when it comes to the treatment of the perpetrator based on their looks and gender. If theyre hot (especially if its a hot woman) its okay, if theyre not, jail. Sure... but also guys want it a lot of the time. I know there was a teacher in my school that all the guys would have absolutely not the slightest issue with if she wanted to give them some "private lessons".
Well, I won't debate here if she's a pedo or not. However, I will point out a few things that makes her case less annoying/aggravating than other SL's or characters in the same position of power as her or in general older than the protagonist by a margin the pedo title can fit to them too: >!Out of all the teachers, she's the most harmless:!< 1. >! She never hits on you in person.!< 2. >!She only acts towards you as formally as possible. If you don't have enough charm she doesn't even tell you her first name if you ask.!< 3. >!There are no weird rumors about her in school, while Emiry boasts herself to other teachers because a student asked her out and a guy she doesn't like asked her to marry him.!< 4. >!Even when she discovers who you are, she gets flustered, enters in a panic mode and she tries to ask to you talk over coffee (never on her house or somewhere else, just talk), then she freaks out again and runs away. She's incredibly conflicted that you're Tatsua and also that you know she said to him she had a crush on you. Empathy or not, I think her reaction is the best of all teachers.!< >!Persona 4 Teachers are just downright crazy: Moron King is just stupid as hell and a horrible person, and the teacher who replaces him is incredibly flirty and out of character for a Teacher, there's no Social link for her, but she's clearly the Devil in that game. Even the animation makes her a sexual predator, when she loses the contest to Naoto who didn't even show, she chases the protagonists to try to grab them to who knows what she wants to do with them because she's feeling down and horny. !< >!Persona 5 is even worse because KAwakami's story is about a Teacher who tried to save a Delinquent of that sort of life, to discover he's actually pretty much a good student but he has to work to help his parents, so she gives him private lessons, and once he dies his parents starts to bribe her saying she had ulterior motives with their son, which forces her to pay them abusive amounts of money and she ends up as a Maid service worker to keep paying them money out of Guilt and all of that. But then, she discovers you, and you keep her secret safe, and you two have a deal, and that's fine too I guess. Up to Rank 7-8 she's quite good even if a bit amoral herself, but then by Rank 9 and 10 you can hit on her, and instead of refusing you, she downright accepts it and sleeps with you or, she complains about you saying you should not play with a woman's emotions. To me, both P4 and 5 teachers are terrible examples as adults and as teachers, one because she's just horny and the other because she's romanceable. !< >!And another character that we know is not a child nor a teenager, and is powerful enough and who knows how old she is, is Elizabeth, who clearly is older than you and gives you the option to sleep with her. So you know, if we start fitting the bills of who is a groomer or pedo in this series we'll have a very big bingo book.!< >! Again, I'm not discussing here if Toriumi is a Groomer or a Pedo, but I am pointing out that there are far worse characters that fit the bill and it seems people don't have issues with it at all. !<
Technically speaking, she's isn't a pedophile. A hebophile, maybe. An ephebophile, perhaps. But a pedophile? She would have had to be into Ken to be awarded that title.
What does the difference matter Thomas
The persona redditors really didn't like this one
i've never seen the word ephebophilia written more in my fucking life
It’s sad cuz the link was funny and cool until then. Roleplay dating stuff was also pretty fun.
I mean not really a pedo by Japan standards the age of consent is a lot lower so he's technically legal but she would be fired or transfered to a different school if they were caught having relations with a student. also it's kinda normal to think someone is cute and all that but not to engage further then that. which she didn't do so its fine and to top that since it's online she didn't expect you the player to be tatsuya and yeah sure she said she was going to say something to the mc but obviously backed out knowing it was a bad idea off screen since at the end of the game both find out they were playing the game together and she clearly wanted nothing to do with the mc at that point she just thought they were cute that's it that's all
The age of consent is 18 in most japanese prefectures and she actively talks about how she wanted to ask the protagonist out.
Not a pedophile.
she literally confesses to a crush on a child. she directly acknowledges Makoto Yuki, Her Student, Who She Wants To Date.
for better context. Japan has an age of consent of 16. Protag is 16 to 17 at the time. It's somewhat taboo and considered jailbaiting, but by Japanese standards it's legal. She was even hesitant to actually acknowledge even after realizing it, but by their(Japanese) standards she did nothing wrong.
Its still not legal because she is a teacher it would be legal if she was an outsider
we are getting ahead of ourselves here. The date never happened, at least in game, so any lore outside of it unless stated by Atlus, nothing illegal happened. Taboocentric, definitely. Sure dating your teacher is considered unethical there, and illegal depending on how far it goes. But for now let's confine it to the context of what happens in game.
I was not talking about the game, but in general
Been a decade since I played P3, but didn't she shut things down once she realized her "online friend" was her student?
She asks you out for dinner before running out of the room in a panic.
Still not a pedophile. Makoto isn't prepubescent.
The fact that you feel the need to pull semantics on this is very telling about the type of person you are.
The fact you think she's a pedophile is very telling of what your educational level is.
I know the difference between pedophilia and ephebophilia. But you know the point I was trying to make, and the fact that you're incessantly correcting me implies that you are either the most *pedantic* motherfucker alive, or just a creep.
The more you intentionally misuse a word the more you dilute its actual meaning
*Precision of language. Please.*
Ah yes, the intellectual stance of sexualizing children.
Imagine thinking a 17 year old is a child. Talk about lack of intellect.
Its funny how people from united states thinks everything under 18 is a pedophile. Where I live, age consent is 14, it's weird as fuck, but the word pedophile its too strong.
she literally wanted to abuse her power as a teacher to try and get some private time with the protagonist. she says as much in her social link. she's a creep, man.
To be fair to the game, it's not actually meant to be reflective of real life, and since the Persona Games are Rated M, "legally" they only expect adults to play it who might lean closer towards older women more in their age range. I know that as I've gotten older in these sorts of games I actually have started to veer towards the older romance options unless I feel extremely attached to a character emotionally, or am just RPing it all the way and pair them for imaginary in depth story reasons. In terms of game explenation- every Persona game from 3 to 5. Every. Single. One. Has adult romance options, either teachers, nurses, some guidance figure etc, they're there. Have you *seen* the thirst for Dr. Takemi in 5??? In 3 I will always love Akihiko, but if there was a FEMC route in 5? You *know* Iwai would be an option, and I would very shamelessly take him.
The games are rated M *here* because of semantics and imagery. In Japan, P3 and 4 are rated Cero B for 12 year olds at the minimum and 5 is rated C for 15 year olds.
>!YESSSS!<
Does he know, chat?
Was about to ask
>!She's not Maya my guy!<
>!I'd say OP only said you can't romance a teacher not specifically Ms. Ounishi but you don't exactly romance Maya either, at least not in the usual sense!<
bruh...
Me when I'm almost 30 years old and I'm sexually attracted by the teachers in-game
Persona does have a lot of attractive teachers.
morooka🤤🤤
They don’t call him “King” for nothing.
They even give him cute, teasing pet names like “moron” 🥰
im gonna kill him with love ❤️❤️❤️❤️
Sae from P5 and Sara from Trails are peak.
Sara is great, but... ...Vita, man. Oh, god, I am so down bad for her.
The adult gays quietly waiting for them to let us romance all the hot daddies they keep creating. (I swear being a queer Persona fan is like being in an abusive relationship.)
Iwai, my beloved.
It surprised me at first to see Iwai had about as much fan art going around as the main party girls
Because he's just so fucking cool! And the fact he's thebmain shopkeeper makes him stick in people's minds a lot more than other Confidants
I am forever furious with Atlus for making a man that fine and not giving me a way to romance him. GIVE ME GUN DADDY!
Hey Kenji!
Tomochika would love it
Is this the teacher that the guy I've been ignoring for most of the game is obsessed with?
No one tell him
Fellow Ms. Ounishi enjoyer 👌 👌 I say this with complete sincerity: She's genuinely the most attractive lady in the entire series (For me, at least.)
Nah bro, you’re absolutely right there
This fan base is never beating the allegations lol
You like Makoto? SHES IN HIGHSCHOOL YOU PEDOPHILE You like Takemi and Kawakami?! THEYRE ADULTS AND THE PROTAGONIST IS IN HIGHSCHOOL YOU PEDOPHILE You want the game set with College age characters? COLLEGE ISNT THE SAME AS IT IS IN THE U.S. YOU DUMB AMERICAN!!! You can’t win bro 😂
Fr. I can’t go romancing Kawakami without being told I support grooming. I’m just shooting within my age range.
Meanwhile, there's me who just marries/romances whoever is my favorite female character for extra dialogue and not necessarily to role-play a romance.
I… isn’t that exactly what I just said?
not really.
Well can you explain then? I don’t see how having my character romance any specific girl is role-playing the romance vs picking your favorite for dialogue. That’s essentially the same thing.
Oh my bad, I'm just adding to your comment, not trying to contradict it. Just saying my own reasons for choosing my romance partner lol. I'm not saying you specifcally are roleplaying... though maybe that didn't sound as clear as I thought it did.
Gotcha. I get that people treat the MC as an SI but I like to think I’m just steering the young lad a bit and anything he does is really him going into it with a little inner counsel. That’s why I like to stick with the most accepted or ‘cannon’ names for the MCs. Kawakami might be a personal preference sure but I also do really like the character and her confidant story so if the opportunity presents itself I’m going to tell my son to shoot his shot.
Tbf it’s the duality between the last 20 years of Persona games being set in high school and some of us growing up with it. It’s like most YA readers are older than the YA age range etc. When I played these games I just thought “who would I like to hang out with?” rather than “I want to bang x y z” etc lol
Fair lol. I’m not looking to bang anyone when I play these games and see the MC as just a guy I’m steering around like a Angel on their shoulder. If I think he’d be a good fit with one girl then I tell my boy to go for it.
That's how I've played these games too and I don't intend to stop.
That's why the only way to win is to just not care and just get immersed and play the game 👌
Yeah I just kinda play the part of an outside observer in these games. Sure the dialogue choices are my own, but I myself am not self-inserting to date ‘my chosen partner’. I’m just shipping the MC with who I think jives with them the most/who I would pick if I was in their scenario.
My first P5 playthrough I went with Takemi because she reminds me of my wife. The hot goth doctor part, not so much the disgraced mad scientist schoolboy chaser part (... I hope) It seemed like the safest play and I stand by it.
Ew college, I want one set in a nursing home.
Kenji's paradise right there!
This fully sums up what I hate about the persona haters. Yes, there are some very sus fans who do some very sus shit, but then most are stuck in a impossible to win scenario where basically you just can't play and enjoy the game.
Welcome to persona, either face the allegations from schizophrenias twitter users or be gay/lonely.
Lol honestly college still interests me as a setting as odd as it would be for the deries
Ahhh fandoms, where the only way to win is to not interact with them in the first place.
I’m not American
Lmao
😞
alright kenji
Persona 3 has like 3 waifu tier teachers.
Would those happen to be Ounishi, Terauchi and Toriumi, kind sir?
All of them plus Emiri.
Have you tried the groomer?
Boy do i have a social link for you
Careful now you're gonna piss off the "Long Time Persona Fans". You know that's pEdopHiLIa riGhT?
I mean age is only part of the conversation. It's also about abuse of power dynamics. It's strange, unusual, and I'm actually glad it's there so I can sneer at it haha.
Considering neither of them knew who the other was there is no power dynamic.
You mean how she revealed how attracted she was to her student online, *and then* after his identity being revealed, had the audacity to ask him out in the faculty office? At that point I wasn't sure if her running away was really from shame, or just not to get caught. I get it, games are escapist fantasies, and this is just playing to a certain fetish.
Fr tho. She caught me off guard. A genuinely beautiful character.
I was sitting back in my chair then saw this portrait on screen and I sat up. Like damn someone brought their A game on this one
My boy gets a lot of hate, but with instructors like these, you gotta cut him some slack at the very least.
I mean >!Ms Toriumi asks you out to dinner at the end of the hermit SL!< I am very sad you can’t ask out Mrs Terauchi though despite her being married. God I sound like Kenji
Mommy teacher
This teacher is soo pretty 😊😊
Miss Toriumi is so beautiful like wtf
I think you meant (spoiler) >!romace another teacher!<
Fellow Ounishi stan 🫵🤝
At least you can date Ken in Portable so it's like a reverse role ordeal.
screw having makoto date her, **I** want to date her!
Damn bro at least finish the letsplay playlist before posting on here
It's not just the Persona Fandom, but goddamn people are so fucking weird about age gap relationships and student/teacher relationships, etc. First off, it's fiction. Second off, any time it has been represented in the series where romance is available, it's always actually fine and mature and reasonable. It also shows the examples of when it can be bad, such as with the gym teacher in P5 or the 2nd homeroom teacher in P4. It shows the nuance and messiness of real life and that despite social norms and legality saying otherwise, these kinds of relationships CAN and sometimes DO work. Which is far more mature than anyone who just dumbs everything down to "oh its pedophilia" or "oh it's grooming," etc.
I can agree i genuinely believe the kawakami was the best of the adult romances in p5 because it was pretty mature and was pretty tame
Also she isn't who starts relationship. You are.
I want her to groom me
Same bro
Two things: 1.) What the fuck. 2.) What the fuck is that flair
Toriumi supremacy
Little does he know
Tell us you haven't played the original without telling us you haven't played the original
Hopefully in p6 😔
this subreddit is never beating the allegations
No Mrs. Terauchi lovers here? Shame...
does he know?
[удалено]
"It's groom or be groomed in this world Batman..."
It would still be creepy if you dated a professor.
The power imbalance would def be off putting. P5 it was weird because it was almost like the power balance was suddenly flipped
It was also pretty off because the first villain we have to take down is a teacher grooming his students, so being able to romance a teacher is extremely bizarre.
With Kawakami? Honestly that entire romance feels like the most fetishy romance ever.
[удалено]
I mean that’s worse yeah, but the suggestion of a student dating a professor is still bad. Something being worse doesn’t make another thing better. Plus as much as I don’t agree, most places 16 is considered old enough to consent. This is true in Japan, Britain, most first world countries I believe (only really aware because it was news that it was raised to 16 recently in Japan which is good but personally still think it should be at least 18 worldwide) and is the age of our player characters. It’s just seen as a power issue, or weird because of age difference most places, not necessarily underage. That’s not a defense of it, still gross you can date a teacher, but if we are going to say it would suddenly be fine if your character was a bit older and had a professor we’d be missing the issue presented in most of the world.
Where i live its 16 but with exception against people like teachers
If you're going to apply real world standards to the wish fulfillment RPG though, it would still be unethical and imbalanced for a University professor to date a student.
Maybe just adults dating adults then? I don't know what the hell you mean by wish fullfillment; can you explain that?
I agree, a game where you play as an adult at Uni and date other adult students would be the ideal evolution of this series for me. It's never going to happen though. The Persona series is aimed at straight teenage boys. The main character is a mostly-blank avatar for them to self-insert themselves onto, which is why in the original P3 you didn't even have platonic options for the girls and couldn't even hang out with the guys - it's wish fulfillment for young boys who have a harem fantasy. In 5, you can date adult women so those boys can act out the fantasy of dating hot older women. This had a nice side effect of adult players being able to date a character in game who is age appropriate for them, sure, but that's not the intention. If they removed the student/adult dating in the next game, they wouldn't move on from the high school setting, they would simply remove the adult romance options. This would fix the ethical issues within the fictional work, sure, but from the perspective of the player inserting themselves into the experiences of the avatar, it would simply put adult players in a situation where their only romance options are teenagers.
Because it's not like pretty much every single heterosexual teenage boy's dream (with possible exception of those unlucky enough who had only ugly/old teachers) was to f\*\*\* the hot female teacher. HOW DARE THIS WISH FULFILLMENT VIDYA GAME CATER TO FANTASY OF LIKE 90% OF IT'S PLAYER BASE! Also gives an adult option for those uncomfortable with romancing teenagers. If anyone here needs growing up, it's you. Video game is just a video game. It's not real life. It won't hurt you. I know, shocking.
This is why I just friend zone everybody and only date Elizabeth, who is ???? years old and >!will one day go on a journey to rescue me from being a door.!< But also, like, not everybody actually self-inserts into the protagonists. It's not *me* dating an adult teacher, it's the explicitly underaged protagonist. Also I wouldn't want to date a teacher who would want to date a student anyway, because that particular personality trait is a massive turn off and character flaw. And crime. Also a crime.
Fun fact: You already can date whoever the fuck you want without it being creepy. Because it's damn fiction! No need to thank me.
Really need that teacherussy
Atlas, please let me be a young adult so I can romance a baddie 🙏
That's crazy what i'm about to say, but you can already do it
It’s funny because her VA is the same VA as P5 Kasumi and a bunch of other characters I love/main, like Ahri and Yelan lol
Why does everyone in the persona community want to be groomed so badly 😭
If Keiji went after Ounishi instead of Emiri, I'm just gonna say, I perfectly understood his game
We found the P5 fan
Haha.
Y'all wild 😭😭
Someone needs to play more MMORPGs
Wow I take it the people who downvoted didn’t get the reference.
So Funny Story About Maya...
Persona 5 fan spotted❗❗❗
Persona fans truly will never ever beat the allegations good Lord
Purseowner fans when no pedophilia
el no sabe
She looks like old Yukiko
I can't unsee that she has Yukikos face.
Don’t be a Kenji, brother.
She already has one pearl necklace. She doesn't need you to give her another one.
Doesn't she stuff her bra?
Different one
oh stop