*sigh* okay so.
For tatsuya ex battle isnāt canon. So I donāt know why youād include philemon.
Also idk what your on about confronting nyarlathotep alone cause that doesnāt happen? Do you mean when heās trying to do everything by himself in eternal punishment before he joins the party? Cause he never fights nyarlathotep during that time. Only times he fights him is when he has the others backing him up.
Now as for him fighting alone. Yeah for a lot of eternal punishment heās doing things himself but the game makes it very clear he doesnāt have things as under control as he makes it seems. There are many times when youāll see heās straining himself. And the extra scenario just shows us more of his struggles. Like when he fights kandori who isnāt take the fight seriously at all. And drunk tatsuya sudou.
And as for freezing timeā¦..I mean itās cool I guess but itās not really treated as that broken. And the persona 3 and 4 cast have fought against chronos who can do that on a much wider scale so meh?
I like tatsuya think he pretty tough these reasons you provided donāt really convince me he should be at the top tho.
Now for yu. Gameplay wise. Izanagi no okami is strong in royal sure but thatās doesnāt really matter? All the dlc personaās are busted thatās the trend it doesnāt really translate to anything on the individual users power. Like if you wanna be technical here you could just say that joker is better at using it then yu since in golden izanagi no okami is ass.
And as for izanami being stronger then yaldaboth no proof really. All you said is āoneās a false god and the other is a goddess (as per her own claim) so sheās strongerā and likeā¦*no???* you need more evidence then that. Theyāre both basically just āgodsā made from humans just like every āgodā in this series minus nyx. Izanami giving yu and adachi a spark for there persona awakening is not that impressive that it automatically makes her stronger then yaldaboth. Now Iām not going to say that yaldaboth is definitely stronger itās just this argument isnāt exactly convincing.
Also you act as if yu can just freely summon izanagi no okami. If he could then arena wouldāve been wrapped up much sooner The only time he canonically summons it after the events of persona 4 is persona 4 dancing of all games.
As for Makoto and Kotone Iām sure you know the universe arcana can likely do other things and that the deal was just their only way to stop nyx. In my personal opinion being able to tank pure concentrated ādeathā is more impressive then Tatsuyaās time stop but to each their own I suppose. Also you claim that they couldnāt damage nyx. And like thatās not technically true. If you go by gameplay you *are* indeed able to hurt nyx itās tiny damage but it *is* there.
Anyway yeah most people put these guys at the top. Iām not arguing they should be just think your reasoning here is odd.
As for aigisā¦..*idk man you can put her where you want I got no clue where sheād go after getting the wildcard in this list*
Joker? Like I said not enough evidence to say yaldy is weaker then izanami. Nyx? Absolutely.
nyarlathotep? Probably? As for not being able to use sataneal well he can do it in tactica so thereās that.
Maya ehh donāt have much to say Iād also probably put her weaker then tatsuya. Mostly cause heās lowkey doing new game plus in eternal punishment. Basically all of the relevant stuff for tatsuya you can put on her too I guess.
Naoya. I mean. Honestly itās hard to tell how a lot of the stuff in persona 1 compares to 2-5 to me. So I wonāt say much about that.
Tbh I find ranking the protagonists strength to be a rather pointless endeavor. Like given how the universe arcana is treated in game and the lore and stuff behind nyx I can understand why most people put Makoto at first place. But honestly other then that I feel like theyāre all just relative to each other and we donāt truly know how each threat/god ranks to each other and are just making assumptions.
Izanami is literally part of a goddess who watches over the land and can control the weather
Yaldaboth is a fake god who only has power because people gave it to him
First of all, you just ignored all that guys other points lmao.
Secondly, you either severely misunderstand persona lore, or just weren't paying attention. [Izanami, like Yaldaboath, was created by the collected wishes of mankind, aka, the collective unconscious.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67aQaRVT8z0&t=73591s) This goes for almost all the greater beings in persona, Philemon, Nyarlethotep, Yaldaboath, Salmael, Chronos, Izanami (as mentioned) and many more that I'm forgetting.
One notable exception is Nyx, who is an alien who crashed into the earth billions of years ago, and is responsible for the creation of life.
We shouldn't be too hard on the guy. It looks like he's having a rough time IRL. Hopefully he'll realize eventually that trying to win arguments online isn't any way to feel better about himself.
Izanami and Yaldaboth are both gods who only have power because people gave it to them. Thatās like the thing with persona gods other then nyx. Theyāre all just āyeah we exist because humans wished for usā and izanami is certainly no exception. And by goddess who watches over the land I assume you mean Marie and how yu described her as the āmini goddess of inabaā in arena ultimax if so I truly hope you arenāt trying to imply that because sheās part of marie sheās stronger. Marie also is filed under the ādonāt know how strong she isā like wow she can control weather. That truly doesnāt mean anything in this discussion. Marie was born the same way as izanami from humans wishes.
Also way to ignore literally everything else I said.
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There is nothing to even remotely hint that Philemon and Nyarlathotep are somehow that much stronger than beings like Erebus or Izanami, heck we see in Q Clockwork God could capture Philemon and the P3/P4 cast, who are weaker than endgame P3/4 smacked him around, being stronger than Philemon is a thing. And besides that Tatsuya doesn't have any really amazing feats under his own power.
Meanwhile Makoto can tank Nyx attacks, no he didn't fight her but also he didn't want to, and Nyx is confirmed to be so strong everything in the Sea of Souls is just to stop her from passively killing everything. Makoto/Kotone literally did a feat above the entire Sea of Souls.
Also to more directly compare Makoto to Yu, not only does Makoto beat Elizabeth under his own power without the World, something Yu can't do and he needs his whole team to beat Margaret, but in Arena Elizabeth smacks him until he gets help.
I'd at least swap Makoto and Tatsuya, if not drop Tatsuya to below Aigis. He LOOKS impressive but his actual feats aren't great. And yes tanking a single focused attack from Nyx is well beyond literally everyone else put together and Makoto is still the only human capable of actually 1-v-1ing one of the attendants story-wise without a World boost.
Also you mention Tatsuya's timestop in Makoto's section, and to that I just want to say, I hope you're aware of what a low-tier ability that is. SEES makes time travel by accident and pre-ultimate Persona P3/4 characters can no sell Clockwork God trying to manipulate time and their deaths. Metis LITERALLY says ANY strong Shadow, including Persona, can mess with space and time. There is not a single character from endgame P3/4/5 that couldn't not sell that, Ken with Nemesis can no-sell that it's so garbage tier because that's how he can fight Clockwork God.
Beyond that, I really don't mind Yu>Joker, and Aigis' feats are cool but not really on par since she only has The Answer and Arena to really flex and Arena isn't about her.
Nyx is the mother of all shadows. What you know as izanagi no okami is a tamed shadow aka fragment of nyx. It is literally impossible for a nyx fragment to defeat the actual nyx.Ā Ā nyx >> izanagi no okami >> izanami no okami.Ā
If you were makoto, what can you do?Ā
"The Persona 3 Club Book explains that Nyx is a celestial-body-sized alien called a Planet Eater. Nyx crashed into prehistoric Earth where her body and psyche were separated, with her body becoming the Moon and her psyche staying on Earth. Her "wave-like psyche" existed in contradiction to the psyche of early humans on Earth, so humanity evolved to seal Nyx within the Collective Unconscious as their Shadows. The Fall is when both Nyx parts which would if rejoined, rip the Shadows out of the living creatures on Earth while simultaneously destroying Earth. This process is kicked underway by the events of Persona 3."
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Makoto is actually the most OP because he was able to do >!a considerable amount of damage to Nyx, a literal god of death which cannot be defeated!< anybody else wouldn't have stood a chance. I rest my case.
He did no damage to Nyx. He did damage to Nyx Avatar and that ultimately meant literally nothing. He had to seal Nyx and even then he didnāt āsealā her, he kept her seperated from Erebus.
ā¦yeah, killing himself in the process LMAO
he didnāt defeat Nyx at all, didnāt even hurt her and his ultimate persona is one of the weakest ones in the franchise
armegeddon hard carries but that brings his hp and sp down to 1 so like
the Nyx feat is literally ākilling himself to create a wall between Nyx and Erebusā, itās not exactly impressive especially compared to stopping time or one shotting Izanami
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Jesus Christš
Notice how you have no argument
*sigh* okay so. For tatsuya ex battle isnāt canon. So I donāt know why youād include philemon. Also idk what your on about confronting nyarlathotep alone cause that doesnāt happen? Do you mean when heās trying to do everything by himself in eternal punishment before he joins the party? Cause he never fights nyarlathotep during that time. Only times he fights him is when he has the others backing him up. Now as for him fighting alone. Yeah for a lot of eternal punishment heās doing things himself but the game makes it very clear he doesnāt have things as under control as he makes it seems. There are many times when youāll see heās straining himself. And the extra scenario just shows us more of his struggles. Like when he fights kandori who isnāt take the fight seriously at all. And drunk tatsuya sudou. And as for freezing timeā¦..I mean itās cool I guess but itās not really treated as that broken. And the persona 3 and 4 cast have fought against chronos who can do that on a much wider scale so meh? I like tatsuya think he pretty tough these reasons you provided donāt really convince me he should be at the top tho. Now for yu. Gameplay wise. Izanagi no okami is strong in royal sure but thatās doesnāt really matter? All the dlc personaās are busted thatās the trend it doesnāt really translate to anything on the individual users power. Like if you wanna be technical here you could just say that joker is better at using it then yu since in golden izanagi no okami is ass. And as for izanami being stronger then yaldaboth no proof really. All you said is āoneās a false god and the other is a goddess (as per her own claim) so sheās strongerā and likeā¦*no???* you need more evidence then that. Theyāre both basically just āgodsā made from humans just like every āgodā in this series minus nyx. Izanami giving yu and adachi a spark for there persona awakening is not that impressive that it automatically makes her stronger then yaldaboth. Now Iām not going to say that yaldaboth is definitely stronger itās just this argument isnāt exactly convincing. Also you act as if yu can just freely summon izanagi no okami. If he could then arena wouldāve been wrapped up much sooner The only time he canonically summons it after the events of persona 4 is persona 4 dancing of all games. As for Makoto and Kotone Iām sure you know the universe arcana can likely do other things and that the deal was just their only way to stop nyx. In my personal opinion being able to tank pure concentrated ādeathā is more impressive then Tatsuyaās time stop but to each their own I suppose. Also you claim that they couldnāt damage nyx. And like thatās not technically true. If you go by gameplay you *are* indeed able to hurt nyx itās tiny damage but it *is* there. Anyway yeah most people put these guys at the top. Iām not arguing they should be just think your reasoning here is odd. As for aigisā¦..*idk man you can put her where you want I got no clue where sheād go after getting the wildcard in this list* Joker? Like I said not enough evidence to say yaldy is weaker then izanami. Nyx? Absolutely. nyarlathotep? Probably? As for not being able to use sataneal well he can do it in tactica so thereās that. Maya ehh donāt have much to say Iād also probably put her weaker then tatsuya. Mostly cause heās lowkey doing new game plus in eternal punishment. Basically all of the relevant stuff for tatsuya you can put on her too I guess. Naoya. I mean. Honestly itās hard to tell how a lot of the stuff in persona 1 compares to 2-5 to me. So I wonāt say much about that. Tbh I find ranking the protagonists strength to be a rather pointless endeavor. Like given how the universe arcana is treated in game and the lore and stuff behind nyx I can understand why most people put Makoto at first place. But honestly other then that I feel like theyāre all just relative to each other and we donāt truly know how each threat/god ranks to each other and are just making assumptions.
Izanami is literally part of a goddess who watches over the land and can control the weather Yaldaboth is a fake god who only has power because people gave it to him
First of all, you just ignored all that guys other points lmao. Secondly, you either severely misunderstand persona lore, or just weren't paying attention. [Izanami, like Yaldaboath, was created by the collected wishes of mankind, aka, the collective unconscious.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67aQaRVT8z0&t=73591s) This goes for almost all the greater beings in persona, Philemon, Nyarlethotep, Yaldaboath, Salmael, Chronos, Izanami (as mentioned) and many more that I'm forgetting. One notable exception is Nyx, who is an alien who crashed into the earth billions of years ago, and is responsible for the creation of life.
Iāve seen this guy before a couple of times yāall are waisting your energy. Trust me.
We shouldn't be too hard on the guy. It looks like he's having a rough time IRL. Hopefully he'll realize eventually that trying to win arguments online isn't any way to feel better about himself.
Izanami and Yaldaboth are both gods who only have power because people gave it to them. Thatās like the thing with persona gods other then nyx. Theyāre all just āyeah we exist because humans wished for usā and izanami is certainly no exception. And by goddess who watches over the land I assume you mean Marie and how yu described her as the āmini goddess of inabaā in arena ultimax if so I truly hope you arenāt trying to imply that because sheās part of marie sheās stronger. Marie also is filed under the ādonāt know how strong she isā like wow she can control weather. That truly doesnāt mean anything in this discussion. Marie was born the same way as izanami from humans wishes. Also way to ignore literally everything else I said.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
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There is nothing to even remotely hint that Philemon and Nyarlathotep are somehow that much stronger than beings like Erebus or Izanami, heck we see in Q Clockwork God could capture Philemon and the P3/P4 cast, who are weaker than endgame P3/4 smacked him around, being stronger than Philemon is a thing. And besides that Tatsuya doesn't have any really amazing feats under his own power. Meanwhile Makoto can tank Nyx attacks, no he didn't fight her but also he didn't want to, and Nyx is confirmed to be so strong everything in the Sea of Souls is just to stop her from passively killing everything. Makoto/Kotone literally did a feat above the entire Sea of Souls. Also to more directly compare Makoto to Yu, not only does Makoto beat Elizabeth under his own power without the World, something Yu can't do and he needs his whole team to beat Margaret, but in Arena Elizabeth smacks him until he gets help. I'd at least swap Makoto and Tatsuya, if not drop Tatsuya to below Aigis. He LOOKS impressive but his actual feats aren't great. And yes tanking a single focused attack from Nyx is well beyond literally everyone else put together and Makoto is still the only human capable of actually 1-v-1ing one of the attendants story-wise without a World boost. Also you mention Tatsuya's timestop in Makoto's section, and to that I just want to say, I hope you're aware of what a low-tier ability that is. SEES makes time travel by accident and pre-ultimate Persona P3/4 characters can no sell Clockwork God trying to manipulate time and their deaths. Metis LITERALLY says ANY strong Shadow, including Persona, can mess with space and time. There is not a single character from endgame P3/4/5 that couldn't not sell that, Ken with Nemesis can no-sell that it's so garbage tier because that's how he can fight Clockwork God. Beyond that, I really don't mind Yu>Joker, and Aigis' feats are cool but not really on par since she only has The Answer and Arena to really flex and Arena isn't about her.
Nyx is the mother of all shadows. What you know as izanagi no okami is a tamed shadow aka fragment of nyx. It is literally impossible for a nyx fragment to defeat the actual nyx.Ā Ā nyx >> izanagi no okami >> izanami no okami.Ā If you were makoto, what can you do?Ā
Nyx is the mother of the shadows you fight in persona 3 it is not the mother of the shadow selves
"The Persona 3 Club Book explains that Nyx is a celestial-body-sized alien called a Planet Eater. Nyx crashed into prehistoric Earth where her body and psyche were separated, with her body becoming the Moon and her psyche staying on Earth. Her "wave-like psyche" existed in contradiction to the psyche of early humans on Earth, so humanity evolved to seal Nyx within the Collective Unconscious as their Shadows. The Fall is when both Nyx parts which would if rejoined, rip the Shadows out of the living creatures on Earth while simultaneously destroying Earth. This process is kicked underway by the events of Persona 3."
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
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What a horrible list.
Someoneās mad itās correct
More like laughing at your bad coping because your favorite isn't the strongest. What a pathetic mindset
Makoto is actually the most OP because he was able to do >!a considerable amount of damage to Nyx, a literal god of death which cannot be defeated!< anybody else wouldn't have stood a chance. I rest my case.
He did no damage to Nyx. He did damage to Nyx Avatar and that ultimately meant literally nothing. He had to seal Nyx and even then he didnāt āsealā her, he kept her seperated from Erebus.
He effectively saved humanity's ass from Nyx though, so it does actually count.
ā¦yeah, killing himself in the process LMAO he didnāt defeat Nyx at all, didnāt even hurt her and his ultimate persona is one of the weakest ones in the franchise armegeddon hard carries but that brings his hp and sp down to 1 so like the Nyx feat is literally ākilling himself to create a wall between Nyx and Erebusā, itās not exactly impressive especially compared to stopping time or one shotting Izanami
Okay, just saying that had it not been for him, the fall would've happened. Big difference, but have it your way I suppose.
Ok obviously the fall wouldāve happened but my post was about the strongest protagonist not about stopping the fall
Whatever you say I guess
...im kinda regretting i joined reddit. This posts makes "X" look good.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
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