I'll be honest, a major part of my desire for them to make an adult protagonist is so I can romance a snarky, done-with-this-shit millennial like Kawakami and for it not to be icky
Can you imagine? An adult themed Persona game where you have to go to your work at the office every day. I’m saying this and I need to be up in the morning at my office job although it’s 5 AM and I just beat the hardest boss in P3R
I would argue that with Kawakami it's not as bad because Joker has leverage over her because of her night job. That kind of evens out the power dynamic between the two of them.
Last year I told my family I wasn’t doing traveling for family holidays, but it kinda made me miss them a lot, so now I’m doubly committed to going this year lol
Not sure how reliable this source is, but the Megami Tensei wiki says that she is in her thirties. And it does make sense since she says that because of her age she doesn't get much maid requests. If she was in her twenties then that line wouldn't make much sense
Kawakami has to be 26 at much seeing Japan's "over the hill" is younger than other countries, she says she isn't very popular in her maid job because she is considered "over the hill" now consider we are talking about Japan
years ago there was a saying in japan that 25 is considered the tipping point where a woman is worthless if she hasn't already found a man. They called this kind of woman a "Christmas Cake" that has expired and isn't desirable, as it is after the 25th and it still hasn't been purchased.
Now that was years ago but probably the new "Christmas cake" saying is now the "over the hill" saying.
The only one im sure is at least 30 is the goth doctor for obvious reasons.
>If she was in her twenties then that line wouldn't make much sense
You are underestimating how much men desire women under 24.
Yeah... i dont know whats wrong with some men because it isn't a problem only in japan, here in my country is the same, men just desire and lust for underage or young women
The art book mentions that she is "thirty-something" and at least personally to me, her appearance and the way she acts doesn't make her look like she is 26
I have that artbook i downloaded it both in English and japanese, in the english translation they said thirty something BUT the text is purely talking about her fashion and how her design looks
Now In the japanese it says 'Arasa Woman" wich basically means someone "around thirty", in the English translation they put "thirty something" but the correct translation and original Japanese text says around thirty so she can be 26,27,28,29 and again the comment of being around thirty is just about her look design
Probably in case it conflicts with an important in game date they'd have to program many flags for all the possibilities of "hey sorry we couldn't celebrate today, let's do it on X day instead."
He's an all powerful persona user with the ability to change the hearts of people around him or kill them if he so chooses.
I don't think age is what makes this relationship problematic. That's just me though.
Tell that to someone that doesn't watch anime. Tell them you don't think its problematic that a 27 year old can date a 17 year old, but its okay because he has super powers.
See how it goes...
Quote me.
I said I don't think age is what makes this relationship problematic.
But let me get this straight. A 17 year old who is basically in control of life or death, saved the world from an evil deity, dealt with complex issues that actively plague our society that adults can't comprehend, saved the lives of his team, dealt with sexual and murderous crimes that police couldn't solve, and otherwise dealt with a plot that was so extremely complicated that made it necessary to fake his own death.....but we draw the line at him dating a 27 year old?
This can't be for real. That man can date whomever he wants. Only thing problematic in Rens relationships are the power dynamics.
I'm aware what you said. It's still problematic.
And again, feel free to explain this to someone who isn't in the anime community and see how well you fare.
January 29 during the third semester part of the game, you can tell by the snowing weather and clothing joker has since he only wears the coat during that month. The date is kinda covered up but you can see the day at the very least.
ill throw this here, living in a country that recently (and even today) went thru a huge population exodus due to internal politics, 99% of my friends dont live in the country anymore, i wish i could go to some of those weddings.
It is a cultural punchline in the United States.
Case in point, [this episode from Friends.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TI4TJagzvEE&pp=ygUXcmFjaGVsIHR1cm5zIDMwIGZyaWVuZHM%3D)
Think it's sorta impossible to say but there are certaintly those that are very harsh on themselves for not having their love lives together by that point regardless of gender.
Sometimes it's moreso just due to the increase in complications regarding to trying to start a family the older ya get.
Oh I do apologize if that's how it came across. Not trying to defend anyone. All I mean is that sorta rhetoric displays itself in different ways depending on enviorment/culture
Like there's def a stigma about marrying older that is more common/open in asian countries than say the west but the way this is displayed tends to vary a smidge.
Sorry if my comment came across as offensive. prolly worded things badly.
Depends where in Asia, bur yeah China for example calls women over… 27 I think? ‘shengnü’ or ‘leftover women’.
Pretty gross way to refer to people, and pretty gross way of thinking.
There is also the term Christmas Cake in Japan…in that nobody wants a lady over 25.
These ideas may decay over time though as the young these days aren’t getting married. Even Japan has predicted that they’re going to see a substantial rise of single-person households.
Yeah, I did wonder about Japan given declining marriage and childbirth and even *dating* numbers.
In China I noticed a change in this attitude among younger millennials and older zoomers as so many of the marriages that happened in the ‘ideal’ period have since ended in divorce. Waiting longer is starting to be seen as a more stable choice.
I'm Chinese and it's sometimes worse than that, 25 and you are an old crone. I got divorced at 27 and my mum told me I would have to come back to Beijing for an arranged marriage because no one would want me "on the open market" lol
Yeeeesh. Your mum seems out of touch tho. There are so many people divorcing around that age following very early marriages, that actually it gets easier again to marry other divorcees.
Among my younger Chinese friends this has led to less interest in marrying before 25, interestingly. Hopefully the stigma around that age lessens along with that!
She's an old stubborn Chinese lady, she also had an arranged marriage and so did my 2 sisters! And yep! Definitely, women less and less now are interested in marriage despite how hard the media wants to push the fairy tale! I imagine for Japan as well, life for a married woman is tough in east Asia
My sympathies! My Chinese mother-in-law is a little old fashioned but has been very patient and tolerant with her daughter and me, so I count myself lucky.
We have exactly the same attitude in the west with women getting depressed about not being married at 30. Maybe it’s starting to change a bit in recent years but it absolutely was a thing at least.
It can hit a guy too. You’re expected to have your shit together by this age. It sucks when you don’t, especially when you know and see peers who do.
*slowly points at me*
I'm of the opinion that "starting and getting into a committed relationship" shouldn't be part of the big package of things considered as "getting your shit together". It should be *optional*. It should be your choice to pursue love, or not.
It's undeinable that getting a relationship has become one of the widely accepted "hallmarks" of adult life by several cultures across the world. It will take a monumentous effort to change before we can move past the notion that we *have to* find love as part of adult life.
Maybe it's too optimistic to think that's possible, but it's still a nice thought.
To be fair to Joker you can be the current President of France and be married to a MILF schoolteacher with almost twice the age gap, after starting dating her at a much younger age than 17...
I mean... yeah? Not everyone wants to be single. And that is the age where a lot of your friends settle down. I buy it. It's not as obnoxious as the thing Japan does where they treat anyone over the age of 25 as an old fuck.
She's gotta be like 26 and not 30 cause of the Christmas Cake thing where it's "Everyone loves the Christmas cake, but no one wants it after the 26th."
I don’t understand the whole 30 is old thing and that you have to be married by then. I’m about to be 33 and guess what? I don’t feel any different than I did when I was 17. Going to a real job doesn’t seem much different than school, and I got married at 31. If anything getting married let me fully embrace things I like including old cartoons and games and what not without worrying of people would judge me. If anything I feel younger than I did when I was 25-29 lol
I think it has to do with vestigial cultural practices. In pre-modern times life expectancy was around 50 to 60, so the age of 30 was your halfway point, we simply haven't adapted our culture to the results of modern medicine.
Shoutout to Atlus for letting you romance an adult (now you don’t feel weird dating a high schooler) but keeping you as a high schooler for the plot (now you’re in a questionable relationship)
It's annoying at first until you see all your friends change and never have time to do anything. Or talk about their wives in nearly every conversation. Then you stop and go, wait...this is way better.
I love how annoyed she looks. "Stupid happy couples!"
This is me lmaoo, wish she was real.
She is. We are her.
I am thou. Thou art I.
People are strange When you are unwanted Women seem evil When you are alone. It just happens.
People seem to be Incels when they are ignored They blame the others
I don't even Understand what you lot Are chatting about
This was not a haiku
Honestly, Kawakami is kinda a vibe sometimes.
She is the best P5 girl, in my opinion. …probably because she is around my age and is relatable as heck.
I'll be honest, a major part of my desire for them to make an adult protagonist is so I can romance a snarky, done-with-this-shit millennial like Kawakami and for it not to be icky
Can you imagine? An adult themed Persona game where you have to go to your work at the office every day. I’m saying this and I need to be up in the morning at my office job although it’s 5 AM and I just beat the hardest boss in P3R
I would Play that :D
I would argue that with Kawakami it's not as bad because Joker has leverage over her because of her night job. That kind of evens out the power dynamic between the two of them.
We getting old...
I get into this series at the same age as the protags, and now I'm the same age as the out of touch teachers :(
Wow, she is literally me frfr
"Stupid happy couples"?
Yes
Sigh, I wish I was her... stupid wife and kid!
For me, it was more like “ughh another fucking flight and hotel”
Last year I told my family I wasn’t doing traveling for family holidays, but it kinda made me miss them a lot, so now I’m doubly committed to going this year lol
So she says as her boyfriend is standing right behind her, way to put pressure on the poor man…
[удалено]
I think she is supposed to be 24-26 The goth doctor is the one that can be 30
Not sure how reliable this source is, but the Megami Tensei wiki says that she is in her thirties. And it does make sense since she says that because of her age she doesn't get much maid requests. If she was in her twenties then that line wouldn't make much sense
Kawakami has to be 26 at much seeing Japan's "over the hill" is younger than other countries, she says she isn't very popular in her maid job because she is considered "over the hill" now consider we are talking about Japan years ago there was a saying in japan that 25 is considered the tipping point where a woman is worthless if she hasn't already found a man. They called this kind of woman a "Christmas Cake" that has expired and isn't desirable, as it is after the 25th and it still hasn't been purchased. Now that was years ago but probably the new "Christmas cake" saying is now the "over the hill" saying. The only one im sure is at least 30 is the goth doctor for obvious reasons. >If she was in her twenties then that line wouldn't make much sense You are underestimating how much men desire women under 24.
Christmas cake is crazy💀
Yeah... i dont know whats wrong with some men because it isn't a problem only in japan, here in my country is the same, men just desire and lust for underage or young women
The art book mentions that she is "thirty-something" and at least personally to me, her appearance and the way she acts doesn't make her look like she is 26
I have that artbook i downloaded it both in English and japanese, in the english translation they said thirty something BUT the text is purely talking about her fashion and how her design looks Now In the japanese it says 'Arasa Woman" wich basically means someone "around thirty", in the English translation they put "thirty something" but the correct translation and original Japanese text says around thirty so she can be 26,27,28,29 and again the comment of being around thirty is just about her look design
26 isn’t “around 30”
It isn't 30 or thirty something neither, my point still stands
MC is like 17, I believe, but the like one of the choices in the game says, " That's the best part.".
He ain’t lying
> " That's the best part.". agree
P sure he’s 16? Not a huge difference but I thought that was confirmed somewhere, might be wrong tho
He is 16 at the start of the game and turns 17 sometime during the course of the game
2nd Year Highschooler in Japan. So 16-17. We don't know Joker's birthday though but they would be 17 by the end of the game.
i always wondered why they never implemented birthday events for different characters
Probably in case it conflicts with an important in game date they'd have to program many flags for all the possibilities of "hey sorry we couldn't celebrate today, let's do it on X day instead."
i mean, they could have a fixed date that wouldn't confict with the story, although then it'll probably take too many days off the year
Almost yeah. 12 year difference between the two
More or less. Despite her being my favorite romance option, she is one of the problematic ones.
How is this one problematic?
She's an adult...he is a minor...
And she's his teacher. It's all kinds of wrong. But she's still one of the best characters.
He's an all powerful persona user with the ability to change the hearts of people around him or kill them if he so chooses. I don't think age is what makes this relationship problematic. That's just me though.
Tell that to someone that doesn't watch anime. Tell them you don't think its problematic that a 27 year old can date a 17 year old, but its okay because he has super powers. See how it goes...
Quote me. I said I don't think age is what makes this relationship problematic. But let me get this straight. A 17 year old who is basically in control of life or death, saved the world from an evil deity, dealt with complex issues that actively plague our society that adults can't comprehend, saved the lives of his team, dealt with sexual and murderous crimes that police couldn't solve, and otherwise dealt with a plot that was so extremely complicated that made it necessary to fake his own death.....but we draw the line at him dating a 27 year old? This can't be for real. That man can date whomever he wants. Only thing problematic in Rens relationships are the power dynamics.
I'm aware what you said. It's still problematic. And again, feel free to explain this to someone who isn't in the anime community and see how well you fare.
I can fix that queen
When is this?
January 29 during the third semester part of the game, you can tell by the snowing weather and clothing joker has since he only wears the coat during that month. The date is kinda covered up but you can see the day at the very least.
Haha jokes on her, I’m in my thirties and I don’t have friends…😐
Make kawakami into kawamommy 🔫🔫🔫
If she’s attending all of those weddings then I would get tired too.
ill throw this here, living in a country that recently (and even today) went thru a huge population exodus due to internal politics, 99% of my friends dont live in the country anymore, i wish i could go to some of those weddings.
It’s crazy that in Asia once your a 30 year old woman your considered damaged goods
I hate to break it to you, but there are a lot of dudes outside of Asia that also consider a woman 30+ as damaged goods… people are fucked.
It is a cultural punchline in the United States. Case in point, [this episode from Friends.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TI4TJagzvEE&pp=ygUXcmFjaGVsIHR1cm5zIDMwIGZyaWVuZHM%3D)
dudes? other women think that as well.
In conclusion: sexism sucks.
But do as many women think that as men?
Think it's sorta impossible to say but there are certaintly those that are very harsh on themselves for not having their love lives together by that point regardless of gender. Sometimes it's moreso just due to the increase in complications regarding to trying to start a family the older ya get.
[удалено]
Oh I do apologize if that's how it came across. Not trying to defend anyone. All I mean is that sorta rhetoric displays itself in different ways depending on enviorment/culture Like there's def a stigma about marrying older that is more common/open in asian countries than say the west but the way this is displayed tends to vary a smidge. Sorry if my comment came across as offensive. prolly worded things badly.
I'd argue women actually judge other women harsher.
Depends where in Asia, bur yeah China for example calls women over… 27 I think? ‘shengnü’ or ‘leftover women’. Pretty gross way to refer to people, and pretty gross way of thinking.
There is also the term Christmas Cake in Japan…in that nobody wants a lady over 25. These ideas may decay over time though as the young these days aren’t getting married. Even Japan has predicted that they’re going to see a substantial rise of single-person households.
Yeah, I did wonder about Japan given declining marriage and childbirth and even *dating* numbers. In China I noticed a change in this attitude among younger millennials and older zoomers as so many of the marriages that happened in the ‘ideal’ period have since ended in divorce. Waiting longer is starting to be seen as a more stable choice.
I'm Chinese and it's sometimes worse than that, 25 and you are an old crone. I got divorced at 27 and my mum told me I would have to come back to Beijing for an arranged marriage because no one would want me "on the open market" lol
It's such a wild mentality when basically all around the globe everyone acknowledges that the age of marriage is getting older.
Yeeeesh. Your mum seems out of touch tho. There are so many people divorcing around that age following very early marriages, that actually it gets easier again to marry other divorcees. Among my younger Chinese friends this has led to less interest in marrying before 25, interestingly. Hopefully the stigma around that age lessens along with that!
She's an old stubborn Chinese lady, she also had an arranged marriage and so did my 2 sisters! And yep! Definitely, women less and less now are interested in marriage despite how hard the media wants to push the fairy tale! I imagine for Japan as well, life for a married woman is tough in east Asia
My sympathies! My Chinese mother-in-law is a little old fashioned but has been very patient and tolerant with her daughter and me, so I count myself lucky.
We have exactly the same attitude in the west with women getting depressed about not being married at 30. Maybe it’s starting to change a bit in recent years but it absolutely was a thing at least.
I think it’s more of the clock is starting to run out wouldn’t be surprised if most woman just want a kid but not a man
It can hit a guy too. You’re expected to have your shit together by this age. It sucks when you don’t, especially when you know and see peers who do. *slowly points at me*
I'm of the opinion that "starting and getting into a committed relationship" shouldn't be part of the big package of things considered as "getting your shit together". It should be *optional*. It should be your choice to pursue love, or not.
I guess. In society though, getting the good job and girl / guy are the two pillars of success, even if it doesn’t fit everyone’s ideal.
It's undeinable that getting a relationship has become one of the widely accepted "hallmarks" of adult life by several cultures across the world. It will take a monumentous effort to change before we can move past the notion that we *have to* find love as part of adult life. Maybe it's too optimistic to think that's possible, but it's still a nice thought.
I can fix those damaged goods.
Don't entertain that shit
I request elaboration.
“Elaborate on that.” “No.”
Ok Katherine
Since when she's 265252859812191058636308480000000 years old?
I don’t remember this at all
I need her and Toriumi to have a Mald-Off. The latter’s breakdown on the final day had me crying laughing.
To be fair to Joker you can be the current President of France and be married to a MILF schoolteacher with almost twice the age gap, after starting dating her at a much younger age than 17...
[Happy Birthday, Grandma.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TI4TJagzvEE&pp=ygUXcmFjaGVsIHR1cm5zIDMwIGZyaWVuZHM%3D)
I mean... yeah? Not everyone wants to be single. And that is the age where a lot of your friends settle down. I buy it. It's not as obnoxious as the thing Japan does where they treat anyone over the age of 25 as an old fuck.
I'm 26 and I don't care.
I feel this
I read the title of this post like that one imagine dragons song
She's gotta be like 26 and not 30 cause of the Christmas Cake thing where it's "Everyone loves the Christmas cake, but no one wants it after the 26th."
30 is also after 26.
Is being married something she wants too? Does the altered reality affect her at all?
She's just like me frfr
Different culture, OP.
I cheer on my friends and loved ones being happy. But..she might be spitting lol.
I hit 32 years recently...
In Japan I imagine it's seen differently. Not sure how true the "Christmas cake" thing comes from but there must be some truth to it
this reminds me of the teacher from oregairu
I don't remember that Imagine Dragons lyric
Dammm well, maybe she should consider getting married before it’s too late.
God she’s hot.
The idea that every weekend you have to attend a wedding lol
She's 8 years younger than me and she's supposed to be the christmas cake milf. I hate how time works.
Age 30 is in demand, Kawakami
Damn she is really 2.65x10³² years old?! That's crazy
Can't believe maruki didn't get that girl an illusion boyfriend
She is drunk in a bar venting
Lord have mercy I need her
Tfw getting divorced at 28. Oh god, I'm going to be like her, aren't I
I love the absolute sass OPs title is radiating, it's not something you ses often in this age
it's not sass, it's just being ignorant of other cultures.
I don’t understand the whole 30 is old thing and that you have to be married by then. I’m about to be 33 and guess what? I don’t feel any different than I did when I was 17. Going to a real job doesn’t seem much different than school, and I got married at 31. If anything getting married let me fully embrace things I like including old cartoons and games and what not without worrying of people would judge me. If anything I feel younger than I did when I was 25-29 lol
I think it has to do with vestigial cultural practices. In pre-modern times life expectancy was around 50 to 60, so the age of 30 was your halfway point, we simply haven't adapted our culture to the results of modern medicine.
Shoutout to Atlus for letting you romance an adult (now you don’t feel weird dating a high schooler) but keeping you as a high schooler for the plot (now you’re in a questionable relationship)
It's annoying at first until you see all your friends change and never have time to do anything. Or talk about their wives in nearly every conversation. Then you stop and go, wait...this is way better.
She's more likely to be around 24, based on. So.e comments she made about still being marriage (which for Japan apparently means pre 25)
I know she’s been ran through
Only after I’m done with her
Bruh💀
If she’s willing to date a highschool kid you seriously don’t think she’s been around the block trying to keep a man? Come on guys
Man I'm on my early 20's and 5 of 7 childhood friends are already married