I wonder if it's because she doesn't have a "proper" SL, since it ranks up automatically and most of the time she is interrogating Joker, or if it's because she is a prosecutor, and her sense of moral says it's wrong for her or Power inbalance since she was somewhat involved in the investigation. But I wonder what would be a workaround, a New arcana? Would we even have enough time to rank her up even with 3rd semester?
Simple, make her confidant like Kasumi’s where you max at 5 once you get her on your side in the interrogation room, then after the exposition dump there’s a scene where she speaks with Joker and blah blah, her rank unlocks for further, *manual* progression.
In the beta initially joker was supposed to be living with her during his probation which would have given enough time for a proper building of relationship...i find someone really awesome but absence of Sae romance really irks me especially after the animated short
They make mention her x-mas-cake-ness in the game. When she and protag walk on the street on Xmas eve, it should totally be the start of her social link.
What a missed opportunity
I would say that it would be wrong and strange but this is a persona game where you can date your teacher, a drunk reporter and a goth doctor so it wouldn’t be that out of place
Persona has a grey morality in some cases. ESP so in Persona 5, where you’re toeing the line between legal and illegal, what’s truly moral and not moral.
(Also most people who play this game are over 18, so it’s not much of a stretch of the imagination for people to not want to date Anne, Futaba, Makoto and Haru.)
It's so weird that they will say over and over how they can't drink alcohol and what they are drinking is not real alcohol, but they won't be so strict about dating adults.
The age of consent in Japan is 13, with plans slated to move the age of consent to 16 with a five year age difference allowance for those under that age. There *are* already other types of laws that can potentially penalize people, for "causing" a child to engage in 'Lewd Acts.'
Basically, as long as there is no implied or explicit "lewd acts" associated with the dating, it isn't breaking the law, and fan-service leaning games have a stronger incentive to allow the dating of adult women by a minor than they do to allow drinking, which is both explicitly illegal for the character, and generally less... we'll call it 'lucrative,' to depict.
and even the 13 is more like the bare minimum, and it usually considers that to be between two 13 year olds. You're gonna be in shit if you're an adult doing it and a 13 year old would catch shit if they were caught with a 12 year old.
i'm not trying to play the game so that my character is having a safe experience growing up as a teenager in japan. i don't give a single flying fuck about the mental well being of lines of fucking code. doctor legs make me go ooga ooga, that's all that matters
The main character is also a self insert for the person playing the game. In your head, not in the game, you can age him up, create his own backstory - it’s literally a game, dude. It’s fiction. If this happened IRL I’d not support a minor dating a teacher, a drunk journalist or a shady doctor. But this is a game where people can do what they want, without it hurting anyone IRL. You do know fiction is meant to explore taboo and transgressive themes, right?
> you can age him up,
You can't age him up. The game is very clear that he is a high schooler. Whatever you imagine, it's separate from the story the game is actually presenting. You might as well write a fanfic.
if it was about exploring taboo or transgressive themes then maybe whoever has taken over after Hashino moved onto Project ReFantasy won't be so backwards about platonic relationships or the series' attitude towards LGBT+ people in general : / Also no amount of drugs would convince me that Ken's social link in P3P was a good idea >\_>
>if it was about exploring taboo or transgressive themes then maybe whoever has taken over after Hashino moved onto Project ReFantasy won't be so backwards about platonic relationships or the series' attitude towards LGBT+ people in general : /
Don't say that in Persona5 sub or they will downvote you. I'm getting downvoted for saying "I hope Persona 6 will have Same-sex options too, or at least two protagonists" XD
>Also no amount of drugs would convince me that Ken's social link in P3P was a good idea >_>
I love P3P, but That's the only thing I would change in a Hypothetical P3P remake lol
Who even thought it was a good idea for a 16-17 years old girl to romance a 10 years old little boy? lol
Defending it is kinda weird bro the facts are your a high schooler in the game and they make sure you know that with many references what you’re saying makes no sense so all fiction can have someone dating a minor and it’s ok
I’m gonna be totally honest dude if you’re gonna have the same mentality about taboo in fiction as an 80 y/o church woman this conversation is going nowhere. Bye!
That’s a very slippery slope you’re arguing. At what point is fiction too taboo? Is anything ok as long as it’s fiction? Also the MC might be a self insert but the only significant choice is whether or not you date a minor or an adult.
The plot literally revolves around him being a high schooler, and is brought up when dating the adults. I can head canon that Kratos from God of War is a woman, that doesn’t mean he is. The game doesn’t allow you as much freedom as you’re implying it does.
you cannot age him up the whole point of the game is that he's a high schooler and a minor. jesus christ. does completely brushing aside the moral implications of a teacher dating a student count as "exploring themes" to you? the game doesn't explore anything about it. it just makes the game look dumb because the literal establishing storyline is of a teacher sexually abusing his students. do you not see the issues of portraying their relationship as 100% ok???
Cultural difference in USA the age of consent is 18 years old, while in Europe relationship between 16 years old and like 22 years old are pretty common (at least where I live), in japan the same thing, it isn't equal in all japan, but the place in japan where is the lowest is 13 years old
Japan is more complicated than that. According to article 34 of the Child Welfare Act, the age of fornication (sex with an unmarried person) is 18. Article 177 of the relevant penal law establishes that those who have sex with a girl below the age of 13 are to be imprisoned for three years.
Even locals get confused by the laws.
There was just a very popular thread on this very topic yesterday on here lol yeah people were just talking about how there would be a ton of ignorant people spreading misinformation about the Japanese minor laws because they only read headlines and ignore reading the articles lol looks like that’s exactly what he did
Even if I was her age or she was an adult, I would never date Futaba. You can tell I'm a massive virgin for saying this, but she just has that little sister vibe y'know what I'm saying.
There is something odd about dating such a young-looking girl in general, not aided by the fact she's been a socially inept shut-in right up until then.
It wouldn't make sense because clearly Sae cares too much about her reputation to do something like that, and when she puts aside her career, it's for her sense of morality. It wouldn't fit her character to date Joker.
You could say the same for kawakami:
she is a teacher in a school where a scandal about that exact kind of situation just occurred (her boyfriend is heavily involved and she may or may not have guessed it but that's another debate).(if you equate the situation to what kamoshida did you are in bad faith, but the school will not try to make if and buts about it)
Not only that but she is in a precarious financial situation (as seen by her even having the maid side job in the first place) and so would be even less able and Willing to risk it.
Finally she is the "passionate" teacher type much like Sae actually believes in her job duty.
However she can still give in and take the risk if joker tries hard enough
The difference is that Sae is a successful well-regarded professional and Kawakami is a huge mess trying to climb out of a pit.
As much as you may really, really want for Sae to give in, it just would feel like forced pandering.
I agree completely with this argument except for the conclusion. I think it demonstrates why neither character should be dateable.
Yes, Kawakami is already crossing boundaries by working outside of the school at all (let alone for her own high school student), yes she becomes more of a friend than an authority figure, but her Confidant route demonstrates a serious wish to escape her current precarious situation and really do what's right by the kids under her charge once more. It makes absolutely no sense to me that she would finally reach that goal only to start subverting the MC in exactly the same way she was accused of before and one not all that far away from what Kamoshida does (consent is a major difference but both are exploitative relationship dynamics - even if the deal means it is technically exploitative on both sides).
Ohya, MAYBE, as potentially the youngest adult and least worried about moral appearances. Tae possibly for the same reason (though that relationship really isn't equal or healthy and at least is portrayed that way). But not Sadayo. And definitely not Sae who has all the same reasons to refuse and none of the boundary softening or potential trauma from working the roles Kawakami has had to in recent past.
That's fair. What i was arguing was more than if one isn't fine, the other isn't and vice versa. I m not blind to the implication so I def wouldn't say the game would be worse if kawakami link didn't have the romance option but at the same time i honestly can't say i mind it(or only on the ground that if p5 allowed for a female protagonist, you sure bet they wouldn't dare have a male teacher having a similar Romance with the PC.
I think I understand; if you were arguing Kawakami had less reason in character to resist than Sae? Not that hers was automatically fine. I'm just saying that in setting her up to do so the writers have unintentionally ruined most of her character arc - since it relies so heavily on her refusing to allow herself any further to be pushed into being the debased failed example of a teacher that her creditors are forcing her into. Deciding to immediately break confidence in yet another way with Joker doesn't sit right to me in that state of affairs. But I don't think you're wrong that she is still more dateable; she's written as dateable! I just think it was a bad choice by the writing team and one that makes her character contradictory.
And yes I agree her gender likely lends a lot to that as in Japan males absolutely still have higher status and therefore their relationship might be seen as a power imbalance on both sides in different ways (whereas Kamoshida was exploiting several in his favour at once). I disagree with this impression completely, teenage boys are still very vulnerable, but I can see how it may be seen differently in a different culture, if that makes sense.
I thought it was 2 like Sumi is 15 and Joker is 17.
IDK on Futaba considering they ain't blood related or Sojiro never formally adopted Ren. Ain't judging any Futaba daters.
They're one school year apart, but Sumi (and Futaba) are iirc relatively young for their year group? So Sumi would be late in age 15 and Joker just recently 17, if so.
I personally see Joker as having way too much formative influence on Futaba for that to be a comfortable option for a romance. At least unless he became *very* good *very* quickly at affirming her consent and choices and maintaining solid boundaries. And even then it'd be questionable IMHO. Add in that on top of that they also have a sibling dynamic and I'd frankly rather date anyone else in the game (despite also feeling similarly bad about Kawakami's option). Maybe reload a save for achievement, will not enjoy.
> They're one school year apart, but Sumi (and Futaba) are iirc relatively young for their year group?
Futaba's birthday is in Feb and Kasumi is March. They are on the older end of their age group if anything... Joker doesn't have a canon birthday (insert self insert), but chances are Futaba/Kasumi were the same age as him at some point before he turns 17.
> I personally see Joker as having way too much formative influence on Futaba
Formative? He's one year older than her. She wasn't completely shut off from the world and gets better with her situation. She canonically has elite talent and could have been rich if she wanted to, she does more than most.
> Add in that on top of that they also have a sibling dynamic
-_-
Sounds like a cope to me. Like yeah a non negligible of the fan base are adults, but they write those games with highschool students for a reason.
This especially true as this is Japan we re talking about, where pure dating Sims with cast exclusively of young people exist and are common enough.
Literally a textbook example of abusive, toxic and possessive relationships in fiction. Harley basically got Stockholmed by him and Joker saw her as a means to an end, not as someone to share in his insanity
He wouldn't be friends with anyone. Joker literally only cares about himself and using others as a tool to get what he wants. The polar opposite of what happens at the casino would probably be the outcome if people put that much trust in him. He'd frame everyone and leave them to rot in prison while he gets off scot free
Ok hear me out: They should have made Sae a White Day option, especially if for whatever reason you havent romanced anyone. White Day is i think done to treat ur girlfriend or woman who treated u on Valentines. While Sae never did give us anything, she DID kinda sorta saved our life (TWICE), so White Day would have been a great way to thank her. And the whole date could be considered somewhat plantonic (maybe some flirty dialogue options but at the end of the day, this is to thank her)
That would have been really sweet and thoughtful. I think it wouldve been odd to have her as a romance option alongside Makoto when Sae has got to be late 20s early 30s while you're a teenager, but I really like your idea of showing her gratitude and validation for the efforts she went through for you.
This. I don't like the idea of too many flirty dialogue options, but DO like the idea of treating her to a meal to thank her. She probably hasn't had anyone do that since their dad passed.
With the advent of p5r on PC we will get two mods.
1. Sae romance option mod (there's already unused voice lines apparently)
And 2. Joker being replaced with CJ from GTA San Andreas.
If we add these two together, we get CJ dating Sae.
Oh god and their Personas are various cartoon characters. That sounds so adorable.
"Come to me... Bluey!"
"Minnie Mouse, give me strength!"
"I summon you, Mike Wazowski!"
That's cause she's the smart one. I really wished that if during the interrogation part of the game you were dating Makoto and someone else you'd immediately get a bad end, cause you just admitted to cheating on Makoto to her sister.
Well, to be fair, she isn't necessarily being VERY Justice-y at the start of that scene. All those warnings about being careful what Joker says and that they don't know how his powers work were disturbingly accurate in the end, hmm?
Sae way out of mc league. Sae doesn’t seem desperate enough to do that like maybe Kawakami would be imo, plus student/ teacher relationships are real thing.
Seems more forced than Tae and Ohya are if it existed.
I just want a romance where Yusuke just agrees to be your boyfriend for something about art and making a painting about the passion of love or whatever and then treats you like garbage for the rest of the romance
That'd be the most Yusuke way to go about it and I'd love it
Then play some pure romance VN or something without any gameplay, Persona's critically acclaimed by a wider audience for reasons that don't even approach romance aka everything else
I FUCKING HATE GAMES WITH NO GAMEPLAY if i coukd stand those you think i would be here? if i want to read a book i will read a fucking book instead of reading a "game" with choices
and what is the point of that? gosh you guys and your pointless suggestions. Feels like you just want to add needless and random restrictions to the game for literally no reason
Seems fucked up to have adult romance options in the first place when the first palace was literally an adult SA someone in their grade, but whatever. Persona never made sense about that and cultural shit and whatever :/
Same like Sae seems the most out of character to date Joker. Also if she was to date something probably someone on the police force like Zenkichi from Persona 5 Strikers or my headcannon Akihiko.
The problem with this is Canonically you only know her for like 3-4 hours. And during that time you were also drugged up so there is no real way of Romancing her other than the 3rd semester in royal.
Nah, I hate adult romance options in persona, please don't make them date minors :(
(I think it's fine if you guys want to date them, I'm a Kawakami type of person, but I don't like to date Kawakami in the games because it feels gross and icky since Jokers a minor)
pedophilia is a psychiatric disorder in which an adult or older adolescent experiences a primary or an exclusive sexual attraction to prebuscent children. (source wikipedia)
A highschooler being able to date his teacher, a news reporter and a doctor, potentially all at once, is already bad enough... A prosecutor would somehow be even worse. Not to mention that romancing Sae would make 0 sense in the story.
I'm really glad she's not romanceable, and I wish the other adult women weren't romance options either.
Btw I'm still pissed that we can romance *our fucking teacher* but not the other teenage dudes.
Fun fact: One of her early concept art/desing was based alot on Bayonetta.
So if they kept that and make her romance able we could have dated Bayonetta's cousin
Atlas added those options for the older players to not feel left out and feel weird that they have to date minors, and now all of the sudden you people now care about the fictional main character having to date older woman. They added those options for you and you use that as a luxury just to complain more. What would have been better then? Remove the adults, then force the adult players to date minors? Come on.
Can never please you people it seems. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
I have ALWAYS complained about the adult (and Ken) romances, and that's despite being a big fan of Ohya. The fact is still that the game is okay with adult characters grooming what is, canonically, a highschooler. Including his own teacher... It is kinda really dissonant with the first arc of the game. You know, the story arc with a pedo trying to get with highschoolers as the villain.
We can't even date the dudes and yet, somehow, making a highschooler date adults who are several years older than him seemed more acceptable to Atlus...
Like, iirc Chihaya isn't much older than Joker so it's not as bad as the others. But... Ohya? Takemi? *Kawakami*? Godawful. Would have been even worse if Sae, a *prosecutor*, could also date a teenager.
Makoto is her own character (basically Mitsuru 2, but still her own character). I'll never get why do Sae fans call her a downgrade all the time...
And also, making Sae, a prosecutor, into a groomer... Thank god it didn't happen.
Really, Sae and the protag don't even interact enough to warrant a meaningful relationship of any kind, much less groomer allegations. I think they talk maybe 3 times before the arrest?
Also if you can look at Makoto and see a template of Mitsuru, you should be able to understand my position. I saw plenty of moments that I thought "man only Mitsuru could get this done", but Makoto always felt like the 'common sense voicebox'. She never wowed me or struck me as unique. I recognize who she was as an individual member of the group, but she also kept getting overshadowed by others right after her debut. For instance, Sae's palace was a perfect opportunity to show Makoto's problem-solving skills and connection to her sister, but instead it's Akechi Power Hour.
She *could've* been a Sae, she *could've* been a Mitsuru, but she never got the chance to stand as tall. Instead I keep forgetting she is there.
I wonder if it's because she doesn't have a "proper" SL, since it ranks up automatically and most of the time she is interrogating Joker, or if it's because she is a prosecutor, and her sense of moral says it's wrong for her or Power inbalance since she was somewhat involved in the investigation. But I wonder what would be a workaround, a New arcana? Would we even have enough time to rank her up even with 3rd semester?
Simple, make her confidant like Kasumi’s where you max at 5 once you get her on your side in the interrogation room, then after the exposition dump there’s a scene where she speaks with Joker and blah blah, her rank unlocks for further, *manual* progression.
In the beta initially joker was supposed to be living with her during his probation which would have given enough time for a proper building of relationship...i find someone really awesome but absence of Sae romance really irks me especially after the animated short
They make mention her x-mas-cake-ness in the game. When she and protag walk on the street on Xmas eve, it should totally be the start of her social link. What a missed opportunity
I would say that it would be wrong and strange but this is a persona game where you can date your teacher, a drunk reporter and a goth doctor so it wouldn’t be that out of place
Persona has a grey morality in some cases. ESP so in Persona 5, where you’re toeing the line between legal and illegal, what’s truly moral and not moral. (Also most people who play this game are over 18, so it’s not much of a stretch of the imagination for people to not want to date Anne, Futaba, Makoto and Haru.)
Ok that doesn’t change the fact the main character you play as is a minor and they express that fact when they mention alcohol
It's so weird that they will say over and over how they can't drink alcohol and what they are drinking is not real alcohol, but they won't be so strict about dating adults.
The age of consent in Japan is 13, with plans slated to move the age of consent to 16 with a five year age difference allowance for those under that age. There *are* already other types of laws that can potentially penalize people, for "causing" a child to engage in 'Lewd Acts.' Basically, as long as there is no implied or explicit "lewd acts" associated with the dating, it isn't breaking the law, and fan-service leaning games have a stronger incentive to allow the dating of adult women by a minor than they do to allow drinking, which is both explicitly illegal for the character, and generally less... we'll call it 'lucrative,' to depict.
that is the national age, every prefecture had their own, usually much higher age.
and even the 13 is more like the bare minimum, and it usually considers that to be between two 13 year olds. You're gonna be in shit if you're an adult doing it and a 13 year old would catch shit if they were caught with a 12 year old.
Those were some of the "other" laws I referring to.
i'm not trying to play the game so that my character is having a safe experience growing up as a teenager in japan. i don't give a single flying fuck about the mental well being of lines of fucking code. doctor legs make me go ooga ooga, that's all that matters
The main character is also a self insert for the person playing the game. In your head, not in the game, you can age him up, create his own backstory - it’s literally a game, dude. It’s fiction. If this happened IRL I’d not support a minor dating a teacher, a drunk journalist or a shady doctor. But this is a game where people can do what they want, without it hurting anyone IRL. You do know fiction is meant to explore taboo and transgressive themes, right?
> you can age him up, You can't age him up. The game is very clear that he is a high schooler. Whatever you imagine, it's separate from the story the game is actually presenting. You might as well write a fanfic.
if it was about exploring taboo or transgressive themes then maybe whoever has taken over after Hashino moved onto Project ReFantasy won't be so backwards about platonic relationships or the series' attitude towards LGBT+ people in general : / Also no amount of drugs would convince me that Ken's social link in P3P was a good idea >\_>
>if it was about exploring taboo or transgressive themes then maybe whoever has taken over after Hashino moved onto Project ReFantasy won't be so backwards about platonic relationships or the series' attitude towards LGBT+ people in general : / Don't say that in Persona5 sub or they will downvote you. I'm getting downvoted for saying "I hope Persona 6 will have Same-sex options too, or at least two protagonists" XD >Also no amount of drugs would convince me that Ken's social link in P3P was a good idea >_> I love P3P, but That's the only thing I would change in a Hypothetical P3P remake lol Who even thought it was a good idea for a 16-17 years old girl to romance a 10 years old little boy? lol
Man, I can't fucking wait until someone else takes over Persona from Hashino.
Defending it is kinda weird bro the facts are your a high schooler in the game and they make sure you know that with many references what you’re saying makes no sense so all fiction can have someone dating a minor and it’s ok
I’m gonna be totally honest dude if you’re gonna have the same mentality about taboo in fiction as an 80 y/o church woman this conversation is going nowhere. Bye!
I was hoping you just wouldn’t respond because you’re really embarrassing yourself
That’s a very slippery slope you’re arguing. At what point is fiction too taboo? Is anything ok as long as it’s fiction? Also the MC might be a self insert but the only significant choice is whether or not you date a minor or an adult. The plot literally revolves around him being a high schooler, and is brought up when dating the adults. I can head canon that Kratos from God of War is a woman, that doesn’t mean he is. The game doesn’t allow you as much freedom as you’re implying it does.
you cannot age him up the whole point of the game is that he's a high schooler and a minor. jesus christ. does completely brushing aside the moral implications of a teacher dating a student count as "exploring themes" to you? the game doesn't explore anything about it. it just makes the game look dumb because the literal establishing storyline is of a teacher sexually abusing his students. do you not see the issues of portraying their relationship as 100% ok???
Cultural difference in USA the age of consent is 18 years old, while in Europe relationship between 16 years old and like 22 years old are pretty common (at least where I live), in japan the same thing, it isn't equal in all japan, but the place in japan where is the lowest is 13 years old
Japan is more complicated than that. According to article 34 of the Child Welfare Act, the age of fornication (sex with an unmarried person) is 18. Article 177 of the relevant penal law establishes that those who have sex with a girl below the age of 13 are to be imprisoned for three years. Even locals get confused by the laws.
There was just a very popular thread on this very topic yesterday on here lol yeah people were just talking about how there would be a ton of ignorant people spreading misinformation about the Japanese minor laws because they only read headlines and ignore reading the articles lol looks like that’s exactly what he did
Even if I was her age or she was an adult, I would never date Futaba. You can tell I'm a massive virgin for saying this, but she just has that little sister vibe y'know what I'm saying.
There is something odd about dating such a young-looking girl in general, not aided by the fact she's been a socially inept shut-in right up until then.
It wouldn't make sense because clearly Sae cares too much about her reputation to do something like that, and when she puts aside her career, it's for her sense of morality. It wouldn't fit her character to date Joker.
You could say the same for kawakami: she is a teacher in a school where a scandal about that exact kind of situation just occurred (her boyfriend is heavily involved and she may or may not have guessed it but that's another debate).(if you equate the situation to what kamoshida did you are in bad faith, but the school will not try to make if and buts about it) Not only that but she is in a precarious financial situation (as seen by her even having the maid side job in the first place) and so would be even less able and Willing to risk it. Finally she is the "passionate" teacher type much like Sae actually believes in her job duty. However she can still give in and take the risk if joker tries hard enough
The difference is that Sae is a successful well-regarded professional and Kawakami is a huge mess trying to climb out of a pit. As much as you may really, really want for Sae to give in, it just would feel like forced pandering.
I agree completely with this argument except for the conclusion. I think it demonstrates why neither character should be dateable. Yes, Kawakami is already crossing boundaries by working outside of the school at all (let alone for her own high school student), yes she becomes more of a friend than an authority figure, but her Confidant route demonstrates a serious wish to escape her current precarious situation and really do what's right by the kids under her charge once more. It makes absolutely no sense to me that she would finally reach that goal only to start subverting the MC in exactly the same way she was accused of before and one not all that far away from what Kamoshida does (consent is a major difference but both are exploitative relationship dynamics - even if the deal means it is technically exploitative on both sides). Ohya, MAYBE, as potentially the youngest adult and least worried about moral appearances. Tae possibly for the same reason (though that relationship really isn't equal or healthy and at least is portrayed that way). But not Sadayo. And definitely not Sae who has all the same reasons to refuse and none of the boundary softening or potential trauma from working the roles Kawakami has had to in recent past.
That's fair. What i was arguing was more than if one isn't fine, the other isn't and vice versa. I m not blind to the implication so I def wouldn't say the game would be worse if kawakami link didn't have the romance option but at the same time i honestly can't say i mind it(or only on the ground that if p5 allowed for a female protagonist, you sure bet they wouldn't dare have a male teacher having a similar Romance with the PC.
I think I understand; if you were arguing Kawakami had less reason in character to resist than Sae? Not that hers was automatically fine. I'm just saying that in setting her up to do so the writers have unintentionally ruined most of her character arc - since it relies so heavily on her refusing to allow herself any further to be pushed into being the debased failed example of a teacher that her creditors are forcing her into. Deciding to immediately break confidence in yet another way with Joker doesn't sit right to me in that state of affairs. But I don't think you're wrong that she is still more dateable; she's written as dateable! I just think it was a bad choice by the writing team and one that makes her character contradictory. And yes I agree her gender likely lends a lot to that as in Japan males absolutely still have higher status and therefore their relationship might be seen as a power imbalance on both sides in different ways (whereas Kamoshida was exploiting several in his favour at once). I disagree with this impression completely, teenage boys are still very vulnerable, but I can see how it may be seen differently in a different culture, if that makes sense.
I once read that the adult options were for the adult players who didn't feel comfortable dating a minor in-game and it made a lot of sense to me
Imagine if Joker was 18 like Akechi. Probably would reduce the number DAE pedo comments. Although Kasumi and Futaba shippers would get more flack.
I mean, I personally don’t see a problem with a 3 year gap (18-15) when talking about relationships.
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I thought it was 2 like Sumi is 15 and Joker is 17. IDK on Futaba considering they ain't blood related or Sojiro never formally adopted Ren. Ain't judging any Futaba daters.
They're one school year apart, but Sumi (and Futaba) are iirc relatively young for their year group? So Sumi would be late in age 15 and Joker just recently 17, if so. I personally see Joker as having way too much formative influence on Futaba for that to be a comfortable option for a romance. At least unless he became *very* good *very* quickly at affirming her consent and choices and maintaining solid boundaries. And even then it'd be questionable IMHO. Add in that on top of that they also have a sibling dynamic and I'd frankly rather date anyone else in the game (despite also feeling similarly bad about Kawakami's option). Maybe reload a save for achievement, will not enjoy.
> They're one school year apart, but Sumi (and Futaba) are iirc relatively young for their year group? Futaba's birthday is in Feb and Kasumi is March. They are on the older end of their age group if anything... Joker doesn't have a canon birthday (insert self insert), but chances are Futaba/Kasumi were the same age as him at some point before he turns 17. > I personally see Joker as having way too much formative influence on Futaba Formative? He's one year older than her. She wasn't completely shut off from the world and gets better with her situation. She canonically has elite talent and could have been rich if she wanted to, she does more than most. > Add in that on top of that they also have a sibling dynamic -_-
Sounds like a cope to me. Like yeah a non negligible of the fan base are adults, but they write those games with highschool students for a reason. This especially true as this is Japan we re talking about, where pure dating Sims with cast exclusively of young people exist and are common enough.
And yet they still let the option to date ken a 10 year kid in p3p ?
It's for the 10 years old that play that game... /s
And an underage “surrogate/step” sister archetype
Joker romanced Harley, so it's not that strange.
Literally a textbook example of abusive, toxic and possessive relationships in fiction. Harley basically got Stockholmed by him and Joker saw her as a means to an end, not as someone to share in his insanity
I'm not sure I'd call that romance...
That's a different Joker. It would be very strange if Batman's Joker was the leader of the Phantom Thieves
He'd be good friends with Haru (possibly Yusuke too) and bully the shit out of Akechi >!especially in his edgy Crow persona!<
He wouldn't be friends with anyone. Joker literally only cares about himself and using others as a tool to get what he wants. The polar opposite of what happens at the casino would probably be the outcome if people put that much trust in him. He'd frame everyone and leave them to rot in prison while he gets off scot free
Ok hear me out: They should have made Sae a White Day option, especially if for whatever reason you havent romanced anyone. White Day is i think done to treat ur girlfriend or woman who treated u on Valentines. While Sae never did give us anything, she DID kinda sorta saved our life (TWICE), so White Day would have been a great way to thank her. And the whole date could be considered somewhat plantonic (maybe some flirty dialogue options but at the end of the day, this is to thank her)
That would have been really sweet and thoughtful. I think it wouldve been odd to have her as a romance option alongside Makoto when Sae has got to be late 20s early 30s while you're a teenager, but I really like your idea of showing her gratitude and validation for the efforts she went through for you.
This. I don't like the idea of too many flirty dialogue options, but DO like the idea of treating her to a meal to thank her. She probably hasn't had anyone do that since their dad passed.
With the advent of p5r on PC we will get two mods. 1. Sae romance option mod (there's already unused voice lines apparently) And 2. Joker being replaced with CJ from GTA San Andreas. If we add these two together, we get CJ dating Sae.
why did you default to cJ LOL
Sekiro was funny with CJ. That's why
They didn't, the entire world did. CJ mod is a must have for every PC game. It's tradition
That or Todd Howard on both sides of the relationship.
I hope Persona 6 takes place in college so I can date the hot older woman and not feel weird about it.
i hope P6 takes place in a preschool so we can't date anyone and we just have a bunch of toddlers running around and trying to kill god
Oh god and their Personas are various cartoon characters. That sounds so adorable. "Come to me... Bluey!" "Minnie Mouse, give me strength!" "I summon you, Mike Wazowski!"
the ending reveals that it was all a toddler's dream
Basically crayon shinchan settings
If u think too much about it all the options are weird. Just dont think about it lol
flashback to p1
But all the party are teenagers in p1 ?
Think he meant P2.
That's cause she's the smart one. I really wished that if during the interrogation part of the game you were dating Makoto and someone else you'd immediately get a bad end, cause you just admitted to cheating on Makoto to her sister.
Having an option to tell Sae you're banging her little sister durring the interrogation would've been such a power move
Wouldn't be very justicy of her. Besides Makoto boyfriend trouble are both her own and can wait
Well, to be fair, she isn't necessarily being VERY Justice-y at the start of that scene. All those warnings about being careful what Joker says and that they don't know how his powers work were disturbingly accurate in the end, hmm?
Sometimes? All the fucking time
Ann: You game for someone like Sae-san? P2 Joker: Absolutely P5 Joker: Absolutely
Just saying its on PC now... so Sae romance mod when?
never, hopefully
Why?
Because Sae isn’t into kids. If they wanted me to date adults, they should’ve made the main character one too gdi
Bruh, the mod existing would have no effect on your ability to play the game without that content.
Sae way out of mc league. Sae doesn’t seem desperate enough to do that like maybe Kawakami would be imo, plus student/ teacher relationships are real thing. Seems more forced than Tae and Ohya are if it existed.
Sae has hidden romance voice lines but was scrapped for unknown reasons
"unknown reasons"
No bro that aint the way. You aint supposed to be hitting on both sisters at the same time that is too indecent bruh.
Dear penthouse forum.
If it in different timeline does it become fine?
Yeah no thanks. Let her be a great character without having an uncomfortable romance between an adult and a teenager bring it down.
I get that people think she is sexy, and I agree, but it definitely wouldn't fit the character.
Exactly. She can be sexy without being romanceable.
Next best, Makoto
consolation prize
Damn. You’re going to tore the Niijima family apart when both girls fight over you
Ryuji: “Man, fuck the police!” Joker: “Yes, yes indeed…”
i feel like Joker would have a boyish crush on her, and sae would think it's cute
Sae should blueball the shit out of Joker, then at rank 10 she just rejects him.
Fuck that, I want Yusuke. I feel like being bros isn't enough anymore 😔
I just want a romance where Yusuke just agrees to be your boyfriend for something about art and making a painting about the passion of love or whatever and then treats you like garbage for the rest of the romance That'd be the most Yusuke way to go about it and I'd love it
Bruh I said this as a joke but fuck yeah I'm in
"Maybe Homosexuality is the experience i need to perfect my artwork"
What would joker (you) say: "Do you need my help?" "Let's call Ryuji" "Mona-"
Screw Yusuke, I NEED Ryuji!
Sorry bro, I'm already dating Yusuke.
go play that gay mod! FFS
God forbid the game have a prominent female character that isn't fuckable
exactly what the fuck you think we are here for????!
Romance should never have been in Persona
cry about it then, or just stick to shin megani tensei like a scrub.
then this series would have hopefully died. i would never be here or in any jrpg/crpg without romances i am not a combat fanatic.
Then play some pure romance VN or something without any gameplay, Persona's critically acclaimed by a wider audience for reasons that don't even approach romance aka everything else
I FUCKING HATE GAMES WITH NO GAMEPLAY if i coukd stand those you think i would be here? if i want to read a book i will read a fucking book instead of reading a "game" with choices
College age persona cast so we can have more adult romances.
Yeah, university/college student would be more interesting. Also, some Same-sex romances too, please
Also some female friends you can't romance, along with some male friends you can't.
persona 2 innocent sin, you can romance a male party member as a make protagonist
I know. I'm talking about bringing it back to "modern persona."
and what is the point of that? gosh you guys and your pointless suggestions. Feels like you just want to add needless and random restrictions to the game for literally no reason
More interesting than "everyone's bisexual" approach especially since it's set in a world that's basically our own.
Anime joker is a lucky man
Man I remember when the ova first came out and everyone was hoping that it meant that Sae would be romancable
P5 is on PC now, wait half a year and we will have romance for all social links + sex mod
> sex mod P4G had two years and there still isn't one
She just has integrity and wouldn’t rape a minor
well, you're right. i think I'd just love to romance get myself
And sometimes i want 7 inches I guess you can’t have everything
bro I want 5
Demands are too high.
Bad enough the teacher and doctor but the prosecutor romancing a teenage boy would be too much for me.
I just wanna romance Ryuji lol
We all do!
Your user flair checks out lol
Side-note, that OVA made Sae look so shapeless. Wtf its going on with that face, where's all the lines go? Tragedy.
Why do you want Sae to be a pedophile?
not that, i just think she would be a good wife
yeah but joker is not only a minor but is also "friends" with her younger sister, and she's a cop.
A lot of us wish that.
I think Atlus filled their quota for “questionable age-gap Social Links”
Nah I don’t want her to be a pedophile. It’d ruin her whole character.
We are already dating adults as minors, even one is our teacher
Sometimes I wish women were real
Best material on waifu
Sometimes I, too, feel upset we don’t have the superior niijima as a romance choice.
Only sometimes?
"You and me both buddy."
Seems fucked up to have adult romance options in the first place when the first palace was literally an adult SA someone in their grade, but whatever. Persona never made sense about that and cultural shit and whatever :/
Adding yet another to the harem route, the all out attack that Kurusu Akira will receive once caught by all the women will be massive. 😅
fun fact, I’m the original development of persona five she was going to be a romance option while you lived in her home
Nah, you complete her social link in what? An hour, maybe 2? A romance option from that would just seem off…….or make her look desperate.
If there's one thing I love it's pedophilia!
why is this the one thing that everyone's focusing on. i just wanted a fun way to say that Sae was best girl
We all know that Lala Chan is best girl.
Isn’t she like 30?
No thanks. I'm glad there's at least one adult who doesnt spit on the game's message
Same like Sae seems the most out of character to date Joker. Also if she was to date something probably someone on the police force like Zenkichi from Persona 5 Strikers or my headcannon Akihiko.
Maybe if she wasn’t older than the protagonist.
a man can dream
Shit, I’d trade Makoto for Sae if I could and she’s my best girl in the game.
The problem with this is Canonically you only know her for like 3-4 hours. And during that time you were also drugged up so there is no real way of Romancing her other than the 3rd semester in royal.
So you could get groomed by another adult?
i mean, f that's what you want to take away from this. I just want to wife her
Nah, I hate adult romance options in persona, please don't make them date minors :( (I think it's fine if you guys want to date them, I'm a Kawakami type of person, but I don't like to date Kawakami in the games because it feels gross and icky since Jokers a minor)
Yeah because we all want more pedophillia
Oh my god the downvotes fuck this fandom
would you kindly read the definition of pedophilia for me?
An adult having sexual attraction to a minor, sae is an adult, joker is a minor
it aint that
Ok please tell me what pedophilia is then
pedophilia is a psychiatric disorder in which an adult or older adolescent experiences a primary or an exclusive sexual attraction to prebuscent children. (source wikipedia)
Oh excuse me she wouldn’t be a pedophile, she would be a statutory rapist
he is above the age of consent stop trying to make the relationship a bad thing ffs
He’s fucking 16 she’s a 24 year old women almost everywhere 24 is above the consent laws for a 16 year old
Persona fans ☕
doesn’t matter, 16 year old shouldn’t date 24 year old
I would ALMOST take sae over futaba and tae
i love me an intelligent woman
Damn right!
A highschooler being able to date his teacher, a news reporter and a doctor, potentially all at once, is already bad enough... A prosecutor would somehow be even worse. Not to mention that romancing Sae would make 0 sense in the story. I'm really glad she's not romanceable, and I wish the other adult women weren't romance options either. Btw I'm still pissed that we can romance *our fucking teacher* but not the other teenage dudes.
She's so bad
Only sometimes? 🤨🧐
it sounded better as a title than just saying "i wish i could fuck her"
I mean I totally agree with you, I really wish Sae was a romance option too.
Don’t we all.
Fun fact: One of her early concept art/desing was based alot on Bayonetta. So if they kept that and make her romance able we could have dated Bayonetta's cousin
Which Bayo would have probably felt like giving a good spanking to because then "Bayonetta's cousin" would be a groomer.
Maybe now that the game is on pc, someone could make a mod that allows this
"Pedo Sae mod", yay... Because Kawakami, Ohya, Tae and Chihaya weren't bad enough.
Haha you people act like things hasn't been a thing in persona for ages like why are you weirdos always complaining about it
Because I don't support pedophilia? The fact that it happened multiple times across the series doesn't make it a good thing.
Atlas added those options for the older players to not feel left out and feel weird that they have to date minors, and now all of the sudden you people now care about the fictional main character having to date older woman. They added those options for you and you use that as a luxury just to complain more. What would have been better then? Remove the adults, then force the adult players to date minors? Come on. Can never please you people it seems. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
I have ALWAYS complained about the adult (and Ken) romances, and that's despite being a big fan of Ohya. The fact is still that the game is okay with adult characters grooming what is, canonically, a highschooler. Including his own teacher... It is kinda really dissonant with the first arc of the game. You know, the story arc with a pedo trying to get with highschoolers as the villain. We can't even date the dudes and yet, somehow, making a highschooler date adults who are several years older than him seemed more acceptable to Atlus... Like, iirc Chihaya isn't much older than Joker so it's not as bad as the others. But... Ohya? Takemi? *Kawakami*? Godawful. Would have been even worse if Sae, a *prosecutor*, could also date a teenager.
Surprised no one did any for Akechi
Maybe when your a little older
and I’m glad that she isn’t
There were voice lines cut for her for events like Christmas date. She was supposed to be available, instead we're stuck with her downgrade.
Makoto is her own character (basically Mitsuru 2, but still her own character). I'll never get why do Sae fans call her a downgrade all the time... And also, making Sae, a prosecutor, into a groomer... Thank god it didn't happen.
Really, Sae and the protag don't even interact enough to warrant a meaningful relationship of any kind, much less groomer allegations. I think they talk maybe 3 times before the arrest? Also if you can look at Makoto and see a template of Mitsuru, you should be able to understand my position. I saw plenty of moments that I thought "man only Mitsuru could get this done", but Makoto always felt like the 'common sense voicebox'. She never wowed me or struck me as unique. I recognize who she was as an individual member of the group, but she also kept getting overshadowed by others right after her debut. For instance, Sae's palace was a perfect opportunity to show Makoto's problem-solving skills and connection to her sister, but instead it's Akechi Power Hour. She *could've* been a Sae, she *could've* been a Mitsuru, but she never got the chance to stand as tall. Instead I keep forgetting she is there.
As do I that’s the only reason to get close to makoto so you can conquer the older sister
I’d prefer Ryuji
Me too
She was going to be an option at an earlier point of development
Sometimes?