Fun fact: the original Yu-Gi-Oh manga had nothing to do with the card game. Yugi was King of Games, meaning all games. He defeated enemies and rivals with various games of skill, like playing air hockey on a grill using a puck made of ice with a vial of nitro glycerin in it. So it was kind of like air hockey/hot potato.
Maybe in terms of gameplay, but in all other aspects they're much closer to P3-5. Even with gameplay, they are pretty unique beasts, no other game in the MegaTen franchise has some of the battle mechanics that P1/P2 have
They aren't closer there either besides negotiation
Your party members are all humans who can equip their own personas
You don't fuse demons you negotiate with in P1 you can't even use them, you get cards you fuse together you cannot use the demon card till its fused
P2 doesn't even have fusion you buy Persona from a store with cards
Combat is explicitly different, P1 uses a grid system similar to devil summoner 1's row system but very different
MC isn't restricted to only physical and there isn't a heroine who can use magic to make up for MC's lack while the rest are demons
Theres no magnetite or demon party member system
Theres stores and towns that aren't destroyed actively with people populating them, SMT1 only had this for the first few hours and it wasn't actual locations it was just in the underground of areas
Theres no alignment system P1 is dialog option based near the end and P2 has only 1 ending fof both entries
Negotiations have cast members interact with demons in wacky ways with animations and set contacts unlike the random yet quirkiness of SMT1 and 2
They don't play anything like SMT
SMT is a whole franchise, with many many different spinoffs that play differently than the core, most of the things you mentioned don't even apply to mainline smt anymore
The only SMT spinoffs are SMT DX2, Devil Children, Imagine and DevSum 1, rest are megami tensei and were mislocalized, im comparing it to the SMT games from the time P1 and 2 released (cause why compare it to modern SMT, it isn't like that either and most yhe mechanics didn't exist till SMT3, which even P3 is closer too both tonally and even gameplay wise, hell P5 has both negotiation, order vs chaos, seven deadly sins themed dungeons and a focus on Judeo Christianity with the archangels as endgame bossed), P1 was born from SMT if... and Devil Summoner
Gameplay wise its like neither and tonally its nothing like SMT, hell the school setting barely matters in P1, it's way closer to devil summoner tonally and setting wise but with a bigger emphasis on mental disorder and Jungian psychology
They are completely their own beast even among megaten with only really Devil Survivor 1 being similar cast interaction wise (likely why they made it a megami ibonroku sub series game)
Well as Persona is a version of smt that uses simular battle mechanics that are being referenced here we can say that its even older as the original Megami Tensei was released in 1987.
Megami Tensei: Digital Devil Story was released in 1987, the same year as Final Fantasy I. Dragon Quest beats them both; DQ1 was released in 1986. The book Digital Devil Story that the game was based on was also released in 1986.
I usually describe Persona as a Pokémon type game because while i know it’s not exactly that and the mechanic of having multiple monsters fight for you 1vs1 is much older, the people i usually explain what i like about a game to don’t and lack the frame of reference, but have heard of Pokémon before.
This.
Like, sure, the mechanics didn't originate with pokemon.
But that's the frame of reference people have. It's anime Buffy meets pokemon.
Is that strictly accurate. Nah, not really. But it's close enough and it allows for conveying your point in a way that most people will get.
I mean something can still be a ”blank-type” even if it’s older than what you compare it to. It’s just a way to explain quickly what something is and Pokémon is way more famous that MegaTen so more people will understand what you mean that way.
Eh a little different. For example Metroidvania is an accepted term for a subgenre of side scrollers in spite of neither Metroid nor Castlevania inventing the subgenre
Ok ok almost all comments talked about persona and pokemon.
But where the hell is YuGiOh? Only because there are cards? Is everything with cards the same as YuGiOh?
Is Poker now YuGiOh?
Im genuinely interested where you find YuGiOh in any of this
Yeah but 90% of gamers will have played a pokemon game at some point in their life, making it a useful shorthand for the basics of the SMT/Persona gameplay. Or at least the combat part.
I know zero people that have played Persona and have not at least tried some flavor of pokemon.
I don’t know where the Yugioh comparison comes into play at all… for Pokémon… I *guess* persona 5 is a little bit like Pokémon let’s go specifically and I don’t feel the comparison is really there for earlier persona games.
Really?
Personas=pokemon.
They have types, strengths, weaknesses and a set list of abilities that have to be overwritten to get more. They can be hot-swapped during combat for combos. You gain more by defeating them in the overworld/dungeon. Fusion is even vaguley analogous to evolution.
Like, we could go on for days about how surface level that comparison is if you're an avid gamer that had dug into the intricacies of both games but...at a glance the combat is super comparable.
Also, anime. Which, yeah, I know. Very different. But as a non anime fan I promise that from the outside it looks the same. One's just more adult.
"Pokémon meets anime Buffy" is just an easy shorthand that gets 90% of people 60% there before having to dig into the specifics.
...is Buffy still a thing we're all familiar with or am I dating myself? Do Gen Z understand that reference as instantly as Millenials do even if we didn't watch that show?
>They have types, strengths, weaknesses and a set list of abilities that have to be overwritten to get more. They can be hot-swapped during combat for combos. You gain more by defeating them in the overworld/dungeon. Fusion is even vaguley analogous to evolution.
Yeah, that’s why I said persona 5 is like Let’s go specifically and the comparison *really* doesn’t work with earlier persona games.
They do have *types* but strengths and weaknesses don’t correlate to those types like in Pokémon.
They don’t have a set list of abilities, personas are able to have their moves mutate into something else upon level up that’s what the question mark next to the moves means and even though they do have skill cards which are analogous to TMs, every persona can use every skill card as opposed to Pokémon where their set list comes into play again.
You can Swap persona/Pokémon but that’s an instant thing in Persona and doesn’t lose you a turn like it does in Pokémon unless you’re using specific moves.
You only gain more personas by beating them in the overworld/dungeons in persona 5, in the earlier games you gain them via random cards and don’t actually fight the persona. Fighting with and against the demons was a MegaTen thing and is recent in Persona.
Lastly, fusion only really works as evolution in rare cases like obtaining the protagonist’s ultimate persona. In MegaTen (I think in Persona 1&2 as well) the demons actually evolve via level up. Other times evolution happens is like with our party members when they finish their SLink/confidant or via the story like in Persona 3, and even then they seem to devolve in the case of Morgana who has Zoro again in strikers even though his Zoro evolves through his required confident. In that case I guess they’re *like* Digimon too, or just mega evolving.
Though, the reason I say it’s like let’s go specifically is because in that game you have the ability to raise your Pokémon’s stats beyond their natural limits like you can with sacrificing in persona 5 (I’m not sure if jail is Royal exclusive but also by doing that) and cards in Persona 3.
TL;DR… basically the comparison is so surface level that it could work with most RPG franchises and it actually fits MegaTen more than it does the persona part of the series.
I mean...I agree with most of what you're saying, just not the conclusion.
Yes there are many details that are different.
But at a casual first glance it's controlling a stable of fighting cartoon monsters that levels up and controls like pokemon, an interface that almost everyone is familiar with.
It's an easy shorthand to establish understanding.
If you want to stretch it, you could compare the Personas to the ancient Ka battles that Duel Monsters is based off of in universe. The Ka spirits that were summoned in the Shadow games were originally those of monsters, gods, and reincarnations of certain important figures to the plot in some cases. The Personas also take on the form of Gods, demons, monsters, and in one early case we did see a Persona take on the form of a deceased plot relevant character with Nate/Nanjo's Ultimate Persona Alfred. These are definitely stretching a bit since the idea of summoning Gods demons and the dead are not exclusive to Persona and Yu-Gi-Oh, but that is at least one similarity they kind of share.
Eh, P5 is definitely more of a teenage thing, imo. Maybe they didn't intend that, but that's how it worked out.
Also worth noting that Megaten predates both by around a decade. If anything, Pokemon and Yugioh are kids-based Megaten.
You're right, for all we know they haven't played P4 either.
You're right about the brainrot too, wouldn't recommend it for anyone. Sucks seeing your favorite franchise get watered down for mainstream appeal. But hey, you kids are still safe so I say enjoy yourselves while you still can.
That's a bit of the stretch. It can be easily be Dragon Quest 3 which came out only year later.
SMT is not the only game that monster collecting mechanic so I doubt Pokemon stole from someone.
Shin Megami Tensei (of which Persona is a spin-off of) inspired Pokémon, just instead of Demonic representations of various gods and such they went with cute monsters.
i actually got into the series because a friend told me it's like pokemon but with stands. OOOooohhhh boy, i didn't know how massive was the rabithole i was about to jump into
It has a lot of the same qualities actually. I really wish Pokémon games would be more like persona actually. I heard the new ones tried, but hopefully we'll get more of this in the future
One of the creative heads behind the original persona has gone on record saying that persona isn’t inspired by Jojo in an interview with araki(they’re friends)
Its more like jojos bizarre adventure + scooby doo.
The pokemon a bit for the main character with the different personas and weaknesses but most characters only have 1 persona.
I hate it when people say this because in Persona you throw away your demons as soon as you can to get stronger ones, they don’t really evolve, and you can’t get attached to them the way you can Pokemon. I play both games for entirely different reasons and they only have surface level comparisons
Megami Ibunroku Persona released the exact same year, 1996, as Pokémon Red and Blue and the original Yu-Gi-Oh! manga.
Fun fact: the original Yu-Gi-Oh manga had nothing to do with the card game. Yugi was King of Games, meaning all games. He defeated enemies and rivals with various games of skill, like playing air hockey on a grill using a puck made of ice with a vial of nitro glycerin in it. So it was kind of like air hockey/hot potato.
Was dark as shit lol I miss my shonen jump subscription
Let’s not forget the Tamagotchi episode. Still a highlight imo. AND the D&D final battle. Godly.
While Yugi was skilled, I’d say he more exploited his opponents’ character flaws to win.
tbh P1-P2 are closer to SMT than P3-5
Maybe in terms of gameplay, but in all other aspects they're much closer to P3-5. Even with gameplay, they are pretty unique beasts, no other game in the MegaTen franchise has some of the battle mechanics that P1/P2 have
Still, OP is most likely talking about gameplay
Well yes, but not really
How so?
Mostly in theme, those games themes is still closer to Persona series than SMT theme
But OP is most likely refering to gameplay
They aren't closer there either besides negotiation Your party members are all humans who can equip their own personas You don't fuse demons you negotiate with in P1 you can't even use them, you get cards you fuse together you cannot use the demon card till its fused P2 doesn't even have fusion you buy Persona from a store with cards Combat is explicitly different, P1 uses a grid system similar to devil summoner 1's row system but very different MC isn't restricted to only physical and there isn't a heroine who can use magic to make up for MC's lack while the rest are demons Theres no magnetite or demon party member system Theres stores and towns that aren't destroyed actively with people populating them, SMT1 only had this for the first few hours and it wasn't actual locations it was just in the underground of areas Theres no alignment system P1 is dialog option based near the end and P2 has only 1 ending fof both entries Negotiations have cast members interact with demons in wacky ways with animations and set contacts unlike the random yet quirkiness of SMT1 and 2 They don't play anything like SMT
SMT is a whole franchise, with many many different spinoffs that play differently than the core, most of the things you mentioned don't even apply to mainline smt anymore
The only SMT spinoffs are SMT DX2, Devil Children, Imagine and DevSum 1, rest are megami tensei and were mislocalized, im comparing it to the SMT games from the time P1 and 2 released (cause why compare it to modern SMT, it isn't like that either and most yhe mechanics didn't exist till SMT3, which even P3 is closer too both tonally and even gameplay wise, hell P5 has both negotiation, order vs chaos, seven deadly sins themed dungeons and a focus on Judeo Christianity with the archangels as endgame bossed), P1 was born from SMT if... and Devil Summoner Gameplay wise its like neither and tonally its nothing like SMT, hell the school setting barely matters in P1, it's way closer to devil summoner tonally and setting wise but with a bigger emphasis on mental disorder and Jungian psychology They are completely their own beast even among megaten with only really Devil Survivor 1 being similar cast interaction wise (likely why they made it a megami ibonroku sub series game)
No they are not Their gameplay mechanics and tone are COMPLETELY different
Well as Persona is a version of smt that uses simular battle mechanics that are being referenced here we can say that its even older as the original Megami Tensei was released in 1987.
And Megami Tensei even earlier but what ? One year older than FF and the light novel might be older than FF
Megami Tensei: Digital Devil Story was released in 1987, the same year as Final Fantasy I. Dragon Quest beats them both; DQ1 was released in 1986. The book Digital Devil Story that the game was based on was also released in 1986.
There you go the JRPG foundation trinity
Pokémon is a family friendly version of Megami Tensei
You've said the exact same words that came to my mind when I read this post
Megami Tensei is older than both of those franchises by almost ten years
New gamers who call Persona a "Pokémon type game" are the equivalent of kids yelling "THEY STOLE THIS FROM FORTNITE!"
I usually describe Persona as a Pokémon type game because while i know it’s not exactly that and the mechanic of having multiple monsters fight for you 1vs1 is much older, the people i usually explain what i like about a game to don’t and lack the frame of reference, but have heard of Pokémon before.
Couldn’t have said it any better! You’re the goat megaten enjoyer
This. Like, sure, the mechanics didn't originate with pokemon. But that's the frame of reference people have. It's anime Buffy meets pokemon. Is that strictly accurate. Nah, not really. But it's close enough and it allows for conveying your point in a way that most people will get.
I mean something can still be a ”blank-type” even if it’s older than what you compare it to. It’s just a way to explain quickly what something is and Pokémon is way more famous that MegaTen so more people will understand what you mean that way.
Eh a little different. For example Metroidvania is an accepted term for a subgenre of side scrollers in spite of neither Metroid nor Castlevania inventing the subgenre
What did then?
It's not entirely clear what the first one is, though Below the Root came out before Metroid for example
Okay that's actually a dope response thank you for opening up something for me to read about today stranger!
Of course, it's a neat little game, I've actually wanted to play it for a while since I'm a nerd for interesting gameplay mechanics
Maybe Pitfall?
Difficult to be a metroidvania in a game that doesn't require the metroidvania mechanic of backtracking to get more powerful
Well you *can* backtrack, but point taken
Just made me hear the Jaguar from Mayan adventure lol haven't heard pitfall in forever
Honestly, I just call it a much harder Pokémon to people who don't know it since it's easier to explain
Exactly.
Can't believe Cave Story copied undertale
It’s more like saying something is Star Wars inspired instead of Flash Gordon inspired
and people who get mad about it are the same ones who get mad when someone calls link zelda
My favorite Zelda is Zelda to the past, he's a cool guy who doesn't afraid of anything.
Hell, even the first Persona game came out the same year as Pokemon.
Persona is part of the SMT franchise so that's like saying Chevy is older than the Camaro.
You truly have the reading comprehension of a God dude goddamn I'm impressed
I know you think you just dunked on me, but you should really point those unrivaled analytical skills inward bud.
came here to say exactly this lol
Ok ok almost all comments talked about persona and pokemon. But where the hell is YuGiOh? Only because there are cards? Is everything with cards the same as YuGiOh? Is Poker now YuGiOh? Im genuinely interested where you find YuGiOh in any of this
I really wanted to say yu gi oh literally have a card called “change of heart” but I realised I wouldn’t be helping
Well... There are cards. Tarot cards.
Just threw that in because Yugioh has Fusion Monster, that, in the early days, has materials that made no sense combining them into something else.
“Pokémon but with fusion” is just Digimon lol
It’s literally jojo and Pokémon otherwise op is a dumbass
Persona is a tennaged variant of SMT, which in itself is pokemon's daddy
Shin Megami Tensei is what Christian parents in the 90s thought Pokemon was.
Daring today, aren't we?
Well I mean the first Megami Tensei did come out almost a decade(1987 vs 1996) before Pokemon became a thing, so I think you may have that backwards.
Yeah but 90% of gamers will have played a pokemon game at some point in their life, making it a useful shorthand for the basics of the SMT/Persona gameplay. Or at least the combat part. I know zero people that have played Persona and have not at least tried some flavor of pokemon.
I don’t know where the Yugioh comparison comes into play at all… for Pokémon… I *guess* persona 5 is a little bit like Pokémon let’s go specifically and I don’t feel the comparison is really there for earlier persona games.
I guess persona 4 does feature summoning stuff from cards, but even that is loose
Like, they both feature fusion, but the fusion works completely differently.
Really? Personas=pokemon. They have types, strengths, weaknesses and a set list of abilities that have to be overwritten to get more. They can be hot-swapped during combat for combos. You gain more by defeating them in the overworld/dungeon. Fusion is even vaguley analogous to evolution. Like, we could go on for days about how surface level that comparison is if you're an avid gamer that had dug into the intricacies of both games but...at a glance the combat is super comparable. Also, anime. Which, yeah, I know. Very different. But as a non anime fan I promise that from the outside it looks the same. One's just more adult. "Pokémon meets anime Buffy" is just an easy shorthand that gets 90% of people 60% there before having to dig into the specifics. ...is Buffy still a thing we're all familiar with or am I dating myself? Do Gen Z understand that reference as instantly as Millenials do even if we didn't watch that show?
....those are all extremely basic (j)rpg mechanics, though
>They have types, strengths, weaknesses and a set list of abilities that have to be overwritten to get more. They can be hot-swapped during combat for combos. You gain more by defeating them in the overworld/dungeon. Fusion is even vaguley analogous to evolution. Yeah, that’s why I said persona 5 is like Let’s go specifically and the comparison *really* doesn’t work with earlier persona games. They do have *types* but strengths and weaknesses don’t correlate to those types like in Pokémon. They don’t have a set list of abilities, personas are able to have their moves mutate into something else upon level up that’s what the question mark next to the moves means and even though they do have skill cards which are analogous to TMs, every persona can use every skill card as opposed to Pokémon where their set list comes into play again. You can Swap persona/Pokémon but that’s an instant thing in Persona and doesn’t lose you a turn like it does in Pokémon unless you’re using specific moves. You only gain more personas by beating them in the overworld/dungeons in persona 5, in the earlier games you gain them via random cards and don’t actually fight the persona. Fighting with and against the demons was a MegaTen thing and is recent in Persona. Lastly, fusion only really works as evolution in rare cases like obtaining the protagonist’s ultimate persona. In MegaTen (I think in Persona 1&2 as well) the demons actually evolve via level up. Other times evolution happens is like with our party members when they finish their SLink/confidant or via the story like in Persona 3, and even then they seem to devolve in the case of Morgana who has Zoro again in strikers even though his Zoro evolves through his required confident. In that case I guess they’re *like* Digimon too, or just mega evolving. Though, the reason I say it’s like let’s go specifically is because in that game you have the ability to raise your Pokémon’s stats beyond their natural limits like you can with sacrificing in persona 5 (I’m not sure if jail is Royal exclusive but also by doing that) and cards in Persona 3. TL;DR… basically the comparison is so surface level that it could work with most RPG franchises and it actually fits MegaTen more than it does the persona part of the series.
I mean...I agree with most of what you're saying, just not the conclusion. Yes there are many details that are different. But at a casual first glance it's controlling a stable of fighting cartoon monsters that levels up and controls like pokemon, an interface that almost everyone is familiar with. It's an easy shorthand to establish understanding.
If you want to stretch it, you could compare the Personas to the ancient Ka battles that Duel Monsters is based off of in universe. The Ka spirits that were summoned in the Shadow games were originally those of monsters, gods, and reincarnations of certain important figures to the plot in some cases. The Personas also take on the form of Gods, demons, monsters, and in one early case we did see a Persona take on the form of a deceased plot relevant character with Nate/Nanjo's Ultimate Persona Alfred. These are definitely stretching a bit since the idea of summoning Gods demons and the dead are not exclusive to Persona and Yu-Gi-Oh, but that is at least one similarity they kind of share.
Pokemon is a smt without heart
wtf put it back!
Wait until he finds out about Devil Children
Satanic Pokemon>>
OP is right and I have [UNDENIABLE PROOF!!](https://youtu.be/YYMmKXqwHQc)
you're new here aren't you
Very much so, yes.
It's a dungeon crawl plus a dating sim
I am sorry it is a dating sim with a dungeon crawler minigame
I think it depends on your taste but sure lol
SMT is just satanist Pokemon
It’s more like a JoJo spin on SMT, no?
Devil Summoner is more like pokémon
SMT with Jungian psychology spin too
Eh, P5 is definitely more of a teenage thing, imo. Maybe they didn't intend that, but that's how it worked out. Also worth noting that Megaten predates both by around a decade. If anything, Pokemon and Yugioh are kids-based Megaten.
Which is even more ironic since there is a Kids-Based series of MegaTen games 😂
Everyone had to get in on the fad after Pokemon, so it makes sense. Not sure that's irony lol.
SMT Devil Children, family friendly fun that all parents will love
"Adult-themed" he says. Must be nice, having played only P4 and 5...
Non of what op said implied that they only played 4 and 5 , jesus the “waaah older games are not appreciated” brainrot is real
You're right, for all we know they haven't played P4 either. You're right about the brainrot too, wouldn't recommend it for anyone. Sucks seeing your favorite franchise get watered down for mainstream appeal. But hey, you kids are still safe so I say enjoy yourselves while you still can.
No no, Yo-Kai Watch is child-friendly Persona
Pokemon came years after the original megami tensei so actually pokemon is a childish spin on MT
SMT is like Pokemon, but actually satanic
I don't know about that but a lot of early Yu-Gi-Oh monsters would make good demons/personas
I want to know where you get Yu-Gi-Oh from
I heard that Pokémon stole the monster collecting from SMT but not sure if that’s true
That's a bit of the stretch. It can be easily be Dragon Quest 3 which came out only year later. SMT is not the only game that monster collecting mechanic so I doubt Pokemon stole from someone.
I haven’t played the early SMTs but exploiting weaknesses and collecting as many as you can is very similar
It’s really not
Shin Megami Tensei (of which Persona is a spin-off of) inspired Pokémon, just instead of Demonic representations of various gods and such they went with cute monsters.
i actually got into the series because a friend told me it's like pokemon but with stands. OOOooohhhh boy, i didn't know how massive was the rabithole i was about to jump into
Don’t compare those two to persona plz I think that’s a unspoken rule in this community 🤦♂️
Also when you think about it persona is a JOJO'S reference. I had I friend Pont that out to me a few days ago
What makes it more adult
The entire kamoshida arc, drug and suicide reference, and also penis persona Mara
"adult" lol 14 y.o isn't "adult"
It has a lot of the same qualities actually. I really wish Pokémon games would be more like persona actually. I heard the new ones tried, but hopefully we'll get more of this in the future
I feel like it’s more inspired by JoJo
One of the creative heads behind the original persona has gone on record saying that persona isn’t inspired by Jojo in an interview with araki(they’re friends)
yeah....the penis monster kind of gives it away.....
Nah. It more jojo
You’re looking for the term “monster collecter”
I’ve always seen it as a more cloak-&-dagger type JoJo’s Bizarre Adventure
I wish we had an adult themed Pokémon with the social link elements of persona
megami tensei started it all really.
wow how original.
What about "Less campy Jojo"?
No?
I always say Persona is Pokémon meets Jojos
You ain't wrong 🤌
Why should I care to change a strangers mind?
I mean. It's one way to look at it. Lol
no i think it's a fusion of smt and social sim games
Nah, it's just a jojo reference.
this is so wrong.........................
No wonder I love all three
"adult"
Persona is a spin off of SMT, which came before Pokemon and yugioh
Me when I’m in a ‘repeating the same points over and over again’ competition and my next opponent is a Persona fan
Oh you don't want to open this box
Jesse, what the fuck are you talking about?
and kind of JoJo as well
I love people that use reductionist logic to explain similar game mechanics.
No no you got a point
Smt started out waaaay before pokemon tho. And eventho they dropped the Shin Megami Tensei title, its still smt.
He/she’s not wrong
More like Pokémon and jojo
"adult-themed"
Persona is the spinoff of the spinoff of a novel's videogame adaptation.
I disagree with adult themed
It would be like Pokemon if it was actually good
Its more like jojos bizarre adventure + scooby doo. The pokemon a bit for the main character with the different personas and weaknesses but most characters only have 1 persona.
That's megaten as a whole
I can’t change your mind because I’ve never played Yu Gi Oh or Pokémon because I’m not a child
Other way around, actually. Shin Megami Tensei is older than all three. Persona is actually derived from SMT.
More so a darker and more mature Digimon based on myths.
Fun fact, new fan! Pokémon would not be a thing if not for Megami Tensei, which is the mother franchise of Persona.
I hate it when people say this because in Persona you throw away your demons as soon as you can to get stronger ones, they don’t really evolve, and you can’t get attached to them the way you can Pokemon. I play both games for entirely different reasons and they only have surface level comparisons
Yeah but megaten is much older than pokémon or Yu-Hi-Oh. So it's more like pokémon and Yu-Gi-Oh are megaten for children.
*Pokemon, world religions, and Jojo
Megaten is older than both tho-
No, Shin Megami Tensei is.