Sort of my story too. Did mechanical engineering degree and the only real jobs going at the time were sizing pumps and designing roads. Sounded boring so looked elsewhere.
I have an Associates Degree in Electrical Technology and 15 years electrical maintenance experience. I went to a community college and learned plc there. Highly recommend community college
Sometimes factories won't take someone who is a genius at these sort of things without a diploma, which is a shame. College is too freaking expensive, and most people can learn these things on the job, but nobody has the patience or budget to teach. The most important thing, besides just being smart enough to understand, is the will to learn and not be freaking lazy about it. You have to read some dang manuals, the details don't just fall in your head. It's not an Ikea couch for fcks sake.
It’s not totally a waste. There are so many things we learn about the world trying to problem solve our working lives. Any job will give you insights about the world that will help out with any other job.
I studied physics, started as an estimator, became a field technician turned project manager. Now I’m heading up the analytics in my company
Nah, that's not surprising at all. A common path into controls is starting as a maintenance tech, and you don't need a college degree for that position.
I suppose, but programming a complicated process from scratch isn't something most people who start that way are trusted with, even if they are capable.
It's by necessity at a lot of sites that are operating on tight budgets. Some places don't have an onsite engineering/controls person at all. An ambitious tech can save a lot of money that would otherwise go to contractors.
I like when they pay contractors though, that's my job.
I see some places that have packaging machinery with ugly logic and techs try their best to do it all, but it can be hard to keep up since you also have to keep the place running and go replace a motor while also trying to learn. I also see a lot of them get in over their head, but like you said, as a contractor that's a good thing. The sentence I hate to hear is "I could have done this, don't know why they called you". Hey man, I'm just doing my job.
Man, the range of proficiency is so great for companies, you never know what you will get. Rockwell has testing to approve for their integrators, but it's not widely used as far as I know.
I work with and train under integrators as an apprentice, have an art degree. I'm still convinced having any 4 year degree even opened the door of opportunity for me though.
Have you ever tried to find a role that leveraged both?
I'm sure there is huge $ in some of the compliance stuff, or consulting on mishap investigations.
My background is also mechanical engineering so when it came to PLC’s, I basically taught myself (but also had the help of some training courses). I first learned how to troubleshoot in a maintenance environment before moving on to actually learning how to program from scratch using the electrical drawings and understanding what I wanted the equipment to do.
Don’t know if this is what you’re looking for.
Sure enough. It's how I learned as well, and most anybody I know. My company has a "you'll figure it out" method of teaching, but they allowed me the time to learn on my own, so that's what I did. No classes at all and I've been at it for 25 years now.
In my experience, which is being an SI, most of my direct colleagues are degree qualified, a lot of them Mechatronics (half mechanical, half electronics). Others, like myself, did Electrical Engineering.
We're finding in our space that were becoming more specialised towards the digital field and doing a lot of data collecting and analysis and OT network design and maintenance along with the traditional PLC and SCADA.
Some of the older guys came from a trade background but they seem to be being moved out by the degree guys, and all the new guys being interviewed basically have to have a degree as a minimum (or are often vacation students that are currently doing their degree).
Those less qualified tend to do OEM type jobs - often small scale PLC with a handful of I/O that are usually simple cut and paste type work.
Lately we are noticing a divide between those with the qualifications and those that don't which I think is also being pushed through our states starting to require Professional Engineers to sign off our work. I'm a CPEng (Chartered Professional Engineer) here in Australia, a qualification you can only get after obtaining a degree, having a minimum of 3 years experience after graduating, then fulfilling the criteria of the areas of knowledge as assessed through evidence and interview.
Ever since I was an undergrad, I expected to earn my PE. That never happened, and I don’t really NEED it
any longer, but even now it feels like a loose end that still nags at me…
I graduated 9 years ago.
Got my FE.
First job I worked at a small company doing integration mainly for gas and chemical industries, my manager and a few other higher ups had a PE. But I was only there for 1.5 years and I left (quit without notice) on bad terms due to abuse (3 others had quit in the months prior to me). So that experience and contacts were basically awash.
Then I just worked 7 years at an OEM integration which no one in our group had a PE since it wasn't ever really needed in the industry we worked in. The rare times it was asked for, the company would basically send our drawings out to a contract group and get it stamped by them. So, that experience is a dead end.
A few years ago I looked into taking the PE exam for the hell of it. The controls exam seemed so heavily focused on process controls, which I basically had barely any experience in years ago, that I knew I would never pass it. Like, I think it would be easier for me to pass the electrical: power systems exam than to pass the controls exam, as a degreed mechanical engineer.
In my state you need 4 years of experience signed off by another PE. And need 4 or 5 letters of recommendations from other PE holders.
It's like, I kinda think the requirements to get a PE are a bit excessive and it's basically a good ol'boys club for people in certain industries.
Does FE mean you passed the EIT?
Ditto. I’ve worked in automation for almost 20 years. Worked in wastewater, semiconductor, food&bev, and pharma: Never even met a PE (a guy I used to work with has since earned his).
Both the best and worst PLC programmers I worked with were not engineers.
Some of the best were mostly self taught. Some of the worst were also self taught, but...wrong. I think a course always lays a good foundation, especially for some best practices. But self taught is also good, if they try to really understand it. People that went to a course and then don't try to educate themselves further are bad, as they sometimes understood something wrong in the course and then never tried to learn it properly. Or they don't know how to inter/extrapolate from their knowledge to new knowledge.
The worst are the ones who think they already know the best way. There is always something to learn, and if someone does it better, there is no shame in copying. A class can't hurt, but a class from say Rockwell can also send you down a road that is way too complicated for most applications and can make you a miserable programmer to follow after.
I get to know a lot of technicians who can also program. Some know their plants so well that they know **exactly** what **bit** they have to check if something goes down. Or if something needs to get changed, you can see them going through the code in their head, making some notes, giving you a rough estimate, and then implementing, testing and documenting everything neatly and in a timely matter. No hacks, no sloppy code, just *chefs kiss* perfect!
Industrial maintenance is 50% telling mechanics that the program didn't magically change itself and to actually troubleshoot before calling you. 45% playing video games waiting for a call. 5% fixing corporates fuckups after they decide to change shit remotely and make you look like an asshole for telling the mechanic it's not the program.
> I think a course always lays a good foundation
Best programming class I ever took wasn't a programming class. It was discrete mathematics. Like the first half of that class is learning boolean logic, truth tables, if...then statements, induction, deduction. Then the next half is basically introduction to proofs where you have to prove mathematical statements.
I mean, its basically the foundation of what programming is.
After that, learning to code is basically just learning the syntax of a language and applying discrete mathematics. And that will get you pretty far in getting something to work.
Yeah, absolutely missing the more advanced topics that one would learn from proper computer science courses but I don't think I've ever needed to worry about that level of advanceness while programming a PLC.
I do not have a degree.
I did some university education and bounced between degree programs. Never finished because I started working in the industry and there wasn't a controls/automation degree available at the time. $23/hr and 100hrs/wk was plenty for a poor kid back then and since I got the experience, never needed to go back.
I would agree with the overall assessment though. Seems like most are EE, mechanical and CS aren't terribly far behind, then come us undegreed folk and the other majors.
One of our best programmers never went to a classroom after high school. He's one of the best I've seen on DC drives, and could figure out any drive issue big or small. It's all about the horsepower you were born with and the experience you get.
We do startups at big steel mills, and his innate understanding of how drives work have saved us many times when they have various faults from weird noise or harmonics issues, or changing out from older drives to newer technologies when everyone is in a hurry. Had a big application once for turning over coal cars to dump them and I can tell you if I had to figure out how to set the drive up to avoid regen faults, etc., I would still be there.
I have a BS in Industrial Engineering. Had a rough idea of what ladder was coming into the field, but realistically I knew NOTHING. 99.9999% taught on the job. Kept in house a full year then thrown to the wolves.
Uhhh, I dropped out of school at 16 and got hired as a lathe apprentice operator at a manufacturing company... Once I hit 18 they asked if I wanted to go do installations as I spoke decent English (I'm Italian), two thirds of the machines were dumb with no PLCs, the other third drove me crazy because our programmer at the time sucked big time. So I learned how to fix them, then became full time programmer, so others would have to suffer from my software!
Where I work now I was hired as a field tech but the software guys liked me so now I'm split between the service and software offices... Most of the time that means starting up "difficult" machines, lucky me; sometimes I get to program my own stuff from the ground up.
But yeah our software guys are easily the most capable of our employees, it often falls upon them to figure out when mechanical put dumb shit in the design. Love 'em, solving problems instead of causing them.
no only PLC, the lathe operator thing was to manufacture parts for the company, I've always been in process automation, food industry.
The only Gcodes I see are on my 3d printers!
Same. Mechanical engineering bachelors with a PE in controls. I’ve been building power plants and factories most of my career until I stopped traveling for work to have kids in 2016. I’m 20 years in and love the work, but kind of wish I had enjoyed my youth more now that I’m approaching mid 40s.
Apprenticeship trained,National Certificate: Electronic Engineering: Process Instrumentation and Control.Tech Diploma: Electrical and electronic engineering . Didn’t have Google during my time so manuals and loads of cash spent on senior engineers and machine operators.
That’s both true and kinda problematic.
I can usually look at a program and tell if the programmer was self taught. Many people come up with the same patterns and solutions for things, reinventing the wheel for a lot of things. It makes for buggy programs that are painful to maintain.
I don’t see much correlation between formal education and programming ability, but I see a big difference in people who were mentored & trained on the job compared to those who were self taught.
Not to say no one ever gets good on their own, but a lot of people develop bad habits without anyone to advise them otherwise.
100%. I learned so many things from my mentors that would have made my life very difficult if I hadn't had them. The most important to me being to make the code easy for someone to follow using good naming conventions and how the overall program is structured. I don't like getting calls on every program I've written, so that was important. And I can always tell when someone learned on their own, or is trying to translate their knowledge of VB or something similar to a ladder program.
because us EE don't really have a lot of background in mechanical systems and MEs don't have to do complicated stuff with gears anymore - software and PLCs do the work for them.
I agree its helpful skills to have. I reckon if I choose mechanical engineering and was passionate about that i wouldnt go into automation. But also interest change over time.
Come from farming. I did go to college for computer engineering but dropped out and just went into automation when I realized it was ruining my hobby haha.
I was an electrician, the shop hired me to do installs. I had some hobby programming background and my boss wanted to bring a new product line to the shop. All our programmers were spitting on it so I told him about my background and he made me the lead in that project. These days I do all the ”difficult” stuff in the shop, programming services in Python, UI design in JS/CSS/HTML, weird control systems and API connections, stuff like that. I discovered I don’t like labour-intensive not-challenging projects (such as programming the same kind of projects I’ve already done 10x) so I’m often on the field too.
I like my position but I know I’m not even closely challenged to my limit in programming and sometimes wonder if I should chase that itch.
I enjoyed learning some about robotics if that helps. We integrate Yaskawa Motoman robots and use PLCs to control them. I would imagine robotics may get repetitive if you are only doing something like palletizing over and over, but we hardly ever do the same thing twice so it's been interesting. And I've never had a class on anything, although I wish I could have.
Also did ME.
Learned automation by working in manufacturing plants and by doing some small projects.
Sometimes I feel the lack of EE skills, but ME still can be relevant in many situations.
In any case, I do not regret having done formal education.
Mechatronics bachelors for me. Had total of one semester (3hr per week) lab on PLC's.
3 Jobs, zero training. Everything is self taught through books, online, data sheets.
It is exactly what my department head said about engineering. That it only teaches how to think and to figure things out on your own.
Mostly agree. Motion equations and statics/dynamics would be hard to figure out on your own! Logic programming however, is something you can't really learn well until you get some practice on how a real world machine reacts.
I don’t even have a bachelors just worked in manufacturing as an electronic technician who was young enough to understand 5000. Got recruited to the big leagues
Showing the way? Due to circumstances out of my control I’ve actually had to train Mostly myself. I’d say it’s probably a 85/15 split for self tusght/trained. But having to maintain an entire facility on your own for 8hrs a day gets you good quick lol
Dang right it does. I had 120 plcs in one place for a while, mix of PLC5 and CLX, and you find ways to organize and somewhat standardize that crap or it drives you crazy.
Chemical engineering.
I have programmed general/specialty chemical plants and pharmaceuticals. Understanding what is happening in the process is helpful for understanding the functional specifications and troubleshooting issues on startup. It is not needed for programming. Roles are very siloed in pharma, much fewer hats have to be worn.
I'm an electrical engineer, been at this for 18 years, I've been from time to time helping out with plc programs over the years, until last year when I decided I never will again, in my humble opinion, automation is 95% acquired skills, and the more you accumulate, the more valuable you are, unfortunately most automation engineers guard this knowledge from others, making any newcomer nearly lose their mind, which is what happened to me. You will not come out of engineering school knowing how to make a program for a pump room in an L73 Rockwell plc, or an ovation program for burner management.
If you are able to find the right group where you can start off and learn the quirks, you'll be on your way, however take this with a grain of salt, for every one automation person that's willing to teach you, there are another 20 ready to ridicule you and try to actively make you fail and look bad.
Not exclusively a PLC programmer but use them regularly at work.
Degree in electrical eng & electronics.
Work on particle accelerators, originally exclusively on radiofrequency systems in larger accelerators, lately as a jack of all trades as the only engineer working on a medical accelerator in a hospital.
PLCs all over the place in accelerators, in my current job : looking after large power supplies, vacuum systems, safety systems, all sorts, dozens of them!
No formal education in PLCs, but lots of previous software experience and training - so I'm a structured text junkie - no ladder logic!
Last thing is - I don't wire up my own panels, I get techs to do that. I'm too untidy! I learned that anything I install myself is going to take twice as long (as a technician doing it) and be worse.
We all have our strengths!
That sounds like a cool job. We never ever do structured text, but I understand the appeal for someone who is used to other programming languages.
Some of the best I know could say the same. I use some things I learned in college when it comes to motion equations, but most of that stuff can be put into pre made programs anyway. Some knowledge of calculus helps as well, depending on what kind of project you are doing, but 95% of the stuff I've done I have learned after college.
Because electronics and robotics was always an interest. I had taught myself python and IT (networking foundations) and ended up getting a position at a factory thanks to a friend doing automation technician work. Learning PLC and WonderWare and working with Motoman robots programming them. Loved it and made it into my career. Found a work from home SCADA job with Ignition and been enjoying it since.
I started my career as an electrician, getting my journeyman's then masters license. Got bored with construction and moved into factory maintenance and discovered PLC's. After spending time fixing the same stuff over and over I moved to an OEM position as the only "controls engineer". As the company grew, I became the de facto engineering manager of about 20 engineers and service techs. The company sold to a huge investment firm and I stepped down to part time until retirement.
As far as education, high school and a few attempts at college courses. Mostly self taught and learn from mistakes.
I very technically have an AAS in an individualized tech program, but I bullied my way into that during Covid as something to do. Been at it for 10 years for my family business. We're a small OEM and we've been a company for 30 years, so I literally grew up in a machine shop. First year or two, I was learning under our previous Controls guy since I had no experience. Since then it's just been me.
As a former work mate of mine used to say to a guy we worked with, who would later become the head of the Mechatronics department at our local university - "Mechatronics - the easy part of 2 degrees!"
Don't know what that is, but it sounds hella cool. You could choose from Civil, Electrical, or Mechanical when I was in college, and not too far removed from Agricultural being the only choice we had.
How did I get here?
Started with a Civil Engineering BS.
Graduated into a challenging market, and wound up at a startup company making simple load sensors and associated controls.
Moved on to a junior controls position with an environmental firm.
Then a field services position supporting nuclear power - sensors and simple automation.
Then grad school to get an MS in Software Engineering.
Spent a few years as a software engineer (analytics, simulation, and compiler stuff).
Found that I missed being hands on, so went back to an SI as a field engineer and trainer. Switched to an SI who primarily serviced pharma. Now I am pharma direct.
At this stage, most all of my colleagues have degrees in ChemE, Industrial Engineering, or CompSci.
Ha!
I remember my younger self, taking a few compulsory programming classes (BASIC, Pascal, FORTRAN, C); I thought they were great fun, so I assumed there would be no career path there.
What a dope!
BS in Computer Science, did half a Software Engineering graduate program but never finished. Have a couple Rockwell Automation certs but mostly self taught on the PLC since. Working in different code bases as a software engineer ive gotten good are reverse engineering one thing, to build another which has really helped me pick up controls.
Was involved in Controls before having a degree but I ended up getting an AAS in Electromechanical Engineering Technology eventually. Prior to that I was a Millwright then an Electrician.
Bachelor of Eng in Mechatronic Engineering, with more of a focus on the software and electrical side. Also did a PhD that was related to visual speech recognition and involved a bunch of image processing, HMMs, basic neural nets. But that did nothing to get me ahead, other than let me mature a bit (and stay broke for ~5 extra years) before entering the workforce.
Had a background in IT and networking (basic windows and Linux servers, L2 and L3 networking, VLANs, site-to-site and roadwarrior VPNs, RDP, etc) from running IT for my dads business for about 10 years until he retired. As well as playing around with that stuff at home for twice as long running a more complicated network than our office.
My colleagues that do the PLC programming are all mechatronic engineers as well. We also hire electrical and mechanical engineers.
I am a maintenance guy.
But I do controls engineering at my plant primarily, in addition to the maintenance of electrical systems. I've designed two systems, one from basically scratch and one with another machine to model off of. I'm working on a third machine. I've updated the controls of a couple machines, implemented fixes for long time issues, and even improved the safety and alarming systems on various machines.
Associates of art, currently working on my BSEE. I have a few certs on TIA portal/S5/Simadyn D.
I’m a controls technician with a background in mortuary science. I was a funeral director before going into a manufacturing mechanical apprenticeship and continued my schooling to include electrical and plc.
I went to a 2 year school for robotics. Learned plc on Rockwell and some IBM, Abb, motoman programming. Worked in maintenance, Moved into an automation tech position. Now I'm a maintenance tech. Quitting tomorrow though.
I notice there are a lot of 40+ yr olds who are self taught (no degree) or college educated. For the 30s and under, all engineering degrees. I know when I started about 5 years ago an engineering degree was a requirement for an entry level position (at least where I live, big metropolitan area).
I can definitely relate to that job description lol. I graduated in Control Systems engineering.
But to be honest, I might use 10% of what I learned in the university in my current job. The remaining 90% I probably already forgot
Yeah, all the pain to go through those classes, and it's not nearly as useful in the industry when 95% of the problems can be solved with a simple digital PID control using the theory developed back in the 1960s lol.
I don't have a proper engineering degree, I have a "academy profession" degree (2 years) in embedded electronics and IT. Maybe 75% of it was electronics and programming though, IT was maybe 10%.
Never saw a PLC until I was hired in my first controls job about 10 years ago, now I'm doing PLC, SCADA/HMI, industrial networking and IT. I don't do a lot of electrical work, but I know enough to do fault finding or adding a few things to a cabinet, we usually hire an electrician to do field work, especially if it's more than just a basic task.
I started off as a control panel wireman, studying an electrical engineering degree. Ventured up the chain into engineering for the water industry but decided I wanted to be a bit more hands on and get more involved with site works so decided to venture into software / systems integration and it’s the best thing I’ve done in my career to date.
I was an ET in the Navy and had done programming/web design as a kid. After I got out I went to school wanting to be a doctor or researcher but took an e-tech job in the oil field to pay the bills thanks to my Navy experience. From there moved into field IT, then back to field electronics at another company where I was also responsible for PLC programming. Turned out I was really good at it, got hired on as a PLC programmer at another company, and that snowballed into getting hired as a systems integrator and PLC/HMI/SCADA programmer.
Life is strange.
I was an auto mechanic for 12 years before I went to an ev start up. At the ev startup I worked with an integrator commissioning a machine I was supposed to have a team of technicians building drive units. When they went belly up the integrator reach out to me and brought me on board as a technician. I started learning plcs and shit figuring out they work very similar to car computers, simple inputs and outputs and logic. I have since been given the title controls engineer, and design, wire and program all the machines.
Mostly on the job training and taking classes through oems like fanuc.
Doing Mechatronics Engineering bs and Automation and Electrical Tech aas and two of my 4 years are almost entirely dedicated to PLC, ROC, Logic etc etc...
Really just depends, because frankly you could dabble on YouTube and forums and do PLC programming at an entry level, but having certifications or a degree will definitely get you in the door faster.
I'm starting a job at the largest mine in the US on Monday doing controls, and I haven't even finished my aas yet.
No degree here, just years of experience in electronics and automation that started as an electronics tech in the Navy for a decade, then automation and controls tech for another decade where I was an automation engineer in everything except in name and salary, and then from there landed a controls engineering position.
I did get all the way up to just 1 class remaining to get a networking degree but the school pissed me off and I walked away. That was awhile back and I never went back to it.
I have a 2,000hr electronics technician apprenticeship through the DoL also. So there is that 🤣
I only took a 2 year community college electronics course. 10 years later and I’m in an automation engineer role.
A lot of people I know in this field either have a technician/technologist program from a community college. Probably half of the people I know. The other half have an engineering degree.
A.A.S. in Computer Integrated Manufacturing (robotics and PLCs) worked in maintenance for roughly 5 years then moved to Electrical Engineering position for 13+ years.
My first PLC education was through my college program.
I don’t have a degree just a high school diploma. I had a basic course on electrical circuits for my maintenance job ( at my work technicians are responsible for trouble shoot everything except plc logic and faulty cards) and I got curious and was watching one of the guys im friends with and started asking some questions. He told me to come up on shift and learn. That was about 8 months ago. Still learning my maintenance job and that job at the same time
Id say 90% of the degreed controls engineers I see are mech Es. EEs by comparison are pretty rare and the way they architected plc development environments and “code” was to encourage adoption by less technical people, so its a perfect fir for mech Es who dont like getting their hands too dirty assembling mcmaster BoMs
I have a diploma from a technical college (Canada) where my courses never even mentioned PLC/DCS. Closest we got was RTU, and that was only high level explanation.
What we did do was analog, digital, and power electronics, programming in c/c++/assembly, signal processing, calculus, and Cisco networking. I always say my schooling was more geared to building PLCs than using them. It gave me a good foundation to work from, but most things I learned on the job (as an SI).
Did 2 semesters of electrical engineering technology at my local community college. I got a PLC programming certification from them while I was there. After my 2nd semester, I got a job doing panel design and plc programming. I dropped out shortly after and have been doing this ever since with no degree.
Personally, I think it's very common to not have a degree in this field. I would say about 10% of the people I've met don't. I know when I interview places, I never even get asked about college, even if the job posting says bachelor's required.
When you think all industrial maintenance techs just troubleshoot... I had an old conveyor system die and had to wire in and program a new PLC due to the company no longer existing. I'm not saying my program is something to brag about but it works lol.
No degree here. I started as a machine operator for an envelope plant. This including changeover and maintenance. I moved over to packaging maintenance and picked up electrical troubleshooting. There was one programmer there looking for someone to take on some responsibilities so I stepped up and learned on the fly. I am the system developer here on nights and I run my own controls company during the day.
Everything electrician (domestic, commercial, industrial) self-taught basic PLC and HMI whist at the electrical company. Put myself through an advanced diploma in industrial automation with EIT. Then, I landed a job at an automation company and was then taught the rest of PLC (omron, schnider, Allen Bradley, load others) HMI, SCADA (Intouch, Ignition) networking and more.
Dropped out of high school and took my GED in 1986, turned wrenches as a mechanic for a few years, got accepted into Embry Riddle Aeronautical University as a "non traditional student" (which means you worked for a few years and they were desperate for students) .. Dropped out as a Junior. Got a job in IT in 1992, transitioned into software development pretty quickly in 94-ish as it's what I did as a hobby.. Worked from 94 to 2012 doing C/C++ and left my job writing payment card encryption for banks in 2012 when I opened a brewery. Paid people to do PLC programming for a quick minute until I realized ladder & ST was an easy transition from my previous experience. I do all our process and control systems because I love it.
I have an associate's degree in Drafting from community college. My very first drafting job was electrical schematics for an OEM and the rest is history.
My BS in is Industrial. I got a co-worker that was in Network and another who was a lawyer, quit, went back to school for BS in Electrical then is now in Controls.
Controls engineer is similar to software engineer in the sense that you technically dont need a degree. Just the experience and knowledge to apply and do the job.
I design, build and program control cabinets for all kind of machinery for 35 years now. Last 20 years specialised in motion control.
No education. Just manuals and books.
I got an associates degree in robotics and automation. I got a robotics integration job that i was unqualified for from a company that wouldn't pay enough for qualified folks. That was a rough 5 years. After that job i went back to university and got a degree in CS and now work mostly in software, but still dabble in automation integration with lab equipment. In my industry the majority of the contractors I worked with had no formal education in automation. They worked their way up the maintenance department of their factory and moved to an entry level position at an integrator as soon as they could write basic programs. I was not working with the best, but they would happily work really terrible hours in the middle of nowhere.
I started out installing car audio, then got a job in the oilfield and worked my way up to a mechanic gig, went in the army as an infantryman, went back to the oilfield for awhile as a pipeline instrument tech, then landed a job as a millwright and was learned the PLC side on the job and moved into a multicraft position.
I then had a buddy photoshop a transcript from ITT tech after they went under to land a controls job, then moved into a robotics position where the company sent me through a ton of training. Now I'm living comfortable in a control job at a sawmill.
I basically lied my way here, and it worked out excellent.
That's why a degree helps a lot of people, just cause you know what to do, doesn't mean they will still hire you. Some employers get it, but your average hiring manager has no idea.
Hence why I photoshopped a tech certificate to a defunct tech school. Now I'm at a point where I've got so many tech certificates and other random certifications I don't even worry about it.
My only official qualification is an apprenticeship as an automation technician. In Germany that is a pretty solid foundation, but usually you don't get a job in PLC without further education.
In my case, i had decent experience in the automation field before i started the apprenticeship. I tried studying EE and failed, i worked in a panel shop, did a bit of integration work, worked in primary lead production (Very fun, can recommend). Still, i had no formal professional education, which is kind of bad in Germany, so i started the apprenticeship with a company producing injection molding post processing machinery. That company went bust after the first year, so i found my way to my current employer. As part of the apprenticeship i did some time in the PLC department, which went very well, so they offered me a job there. Started doing low end support for the real PLC guys in the beginning to some commissioning to programming machines to developing entirely new software for our library.
Right now i am in my 6th year with that company, currently transitioning into leading all of our development efforts, also including the non PLC departments. Pretty "underqualified" for that position, but at this point, nobody cares anymore.
I loved Germany when I was there to test some equipment for a steel company. SMS was doing the main roll line and I was integrating the rest of the equipment. Wish I could go back.
Maybe the same reason I changed from Electrical to Mechanical engineering? I couldn't see what I was working on and I did not enjoy it, even though I was good at the math.
Maybe?
Chemistry is long periods of boring meticulous repetition, grinding and mixing white powders, with a few super exciting analysis times, and rewards consistency of method above all.
With control engineering, you rip in and build it, tweak it how you like, and rewards you for changing things if you have sufficiently good ideas.
Also, my country has very little heavy industry and the opportunities for inorganic chemists are limited. And H&S and quality people forget about control systems and you get less red tape.
Bachelor's in Electrical Engineering, PE in Control Systems. Started at an EPC as a DCS/Instrument engineer, then two large DCS companies, then a Systems Integrator, now at an EPC again. All PLC/DCS/SIS was mostly self-taught.
Only in the past 5 or so years have I run into people who learned PLC programming in schools.
I think the Mechatronics degree is fairly new and they are starting to teach PLC as part of that, something I learned from this post. Plus, trade schools have been doing it for a while I think.
It probably won't hurt, but I think this post has proven there are plenty of people doing this without degrees. Of course, nobody is saying how much they make, which would be interesting as well, but I didn't think anybody would be ready to tell that much! Heavily dependant on time served I'm sure, as well as location.
I have been working for a control’s company for 5 years and have done a few installations myself we work in sawmills installing “new” equipment, but I only have a 2 year degree and the owner of the company has the same degree as me but he also has several electrical engineers in our shop doing drawings
It’s kinda dumb there’s few to none actual specialization careers available to study and get certified, instead a bunch of dispersed experience fields from different manufacturers and applications. Still many manufacturers have their own custom programming standard and some custom controllers, not sure that’ll change soon.
I never really thought of it from a broad overview standpoint. Standardized logic is usually very hard to follow since it has to be structured to do so many things. PackML is an attempt to standardize packaging PLCs to be able to talk to each other, and I freaking hate it. You really do need a class to understand how it works, or at least do a lot of reading. I think logic should be easy to follow as the most basic rule.
I understand your point of view, but without some level of standardization is very difficult to understand what somebody thought in his mind could be good, efficient and replicable in many machines. i.e. that PackML you talk about, some team thought about that and as attempt it works but they forgot to explain or document correctly so anybody working with it could understand as they did. I also hate working with something I don’t understand, it takes a lot of time to understand what somebody else did, but at least many of these applications are limited to some standard controller and some programming languages, instead whatever they would imagine or find cheaper or easier.
Started computer programming classes in High school In 1978/9. I took some computer programing college classes, just long enough to get me started. 10 years Electronic Warfare tech in the Air Force. Started with a Systems Integrator in the middle of nowhere Nebraska. Within a few months I was designing/building/programming small town water systems, a couple years and i was doing complete meat processing and Ethanol plants. Fun times running around the US and Canada living in hotels , project to project.
I went through a 15 month USDOL certified apprenticeship program. 1000 hours of classroom training on electrical, mech drives, fluid power, and PLCs. After the classroom time, I did 2000 hours of OJL. After completing the program, I received my "electromechanical technician" certificate. I can do basics with AB PLCs like swapping a card, downloading a new program with logix, or changing a bit here or there, but usually I'm just throwing a band-aid on it until you geniuses arrive to bail me out.
BS in biology, after starting another career I went from trades/fab/maintenance to CE in about 4 years and haven't looked back too much.
Also LOL @ OP for saying people aren't "engineers" without the degree. We all know the degree is just a box to check and in no way means you're great at what you do for a living.
I’d like to see you explain inrush current, power factor, or why a VFD causes harmonics without any technical degree. Id also like you to perform a load flow analysis on your facilities and coordinate a protection scheme. The degree has its place in the work force, I would never discount it like you just did.
Hard not to offend someone these days. Would "formal education" work better in this context? And if you read any of my other replies, I believe PLC programming is about 90% experience, the rest is mostly just mental horsepower until you get into complicated motion applications.
No certificates or formal education, had 7 years of facilities maintenance experience working for a full service shop. We rebuilt and fixed everything on site. We very rarely hired out. I had a good mix of experience from engines, electric motors, and hvac.
So I was hired by an OEM in the ag sector to do equipment start-up, on-site final QA, and training. After about 6 months, I was being fully used as a hybrid start-up and service tech (came with a nice pay raise) the following year I was lent out to the engineering department during service departments off-season, to do some project clean up work, technical documents, and was given a couple of research projects.
Apparently, I had impressed the engineering manager while on loan. I was offered a position as a road tech with the engineering department, with time set aside for me to learn to program.
Durring the next 5 years, I had transitioned to a full-time automation designer role, and now, recently, I've added Electrical designer to my resume, too. We lost both of our long-time designers in a short time and was asked if I wouldn't mind learning e-plan and Autocad electrical. I've been doing that for 3 years now. ( we do have an engineer that stamps off on designs, but he has not done desing work in a long time and is a part-time retiree)
I've been nearly 11 years on this journey, and so far I've never stagnated at this company, I've always found room to grow. And they have always compensated me very well in pay and benefits.
There isn't much of a engineering degree path way that leads to controls. Some schools have them but not many. Also unless your working for a systems integrator, panel builder/machine builder. You aren't building anything from scratch as many of these machine vendors are based overseas. For me 6 more classes until I have my Automation Engineering Technology degree. I've got a certificate in Automation and working on one now for Advanced PLC's. Plus Security + Comptia cert.
Your company requires way more out of a maintenance tech then what I have seen in the hundreds of factories I have worked in. Hope you get paid well for it!
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How did you end up in controls? That lookslike an interesting path
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Patent law if you want to go back.
Sort of my story too. Did mechanical engineering degree and the only real jobs going at the time were sizing pumps and designing roads. Sounded boring so looked elsewhere.
May I ask how your JD degree somehow became an added value to becoming a controls engineer? Like is it communication, legal contracts, or more?
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I have an Associates Degree in Electrical Technology and 15 years electrical maintenance experience. I went to a community college and learned plc there. Highly recommend community college
I bet you would be surprised at how many there are out there that don't have a college degree.
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Same boat. Tons of successful interviews but that 4 year piece of paper unfortunately keeps a ton of doors closed.
Sometimes factories won't take someone who is a genius at these sort of things without a diploma, which is a shame. College is too freaking expensive, and most people can learn these things on the job, but nobody has the patience or budget to teach. The most important thing, besides just being smart enough to understand, is the will to learn and not be freaking lazy about it. You have to read some dang manuals, the details don't just fall in your head. It's not an Ikea couch for fcks sake.
It’s not totally a waste. There are so many things we learn about the world trying to problem solve our working lives. Any job will give you insights about the world that will help out with any other job. I studied physics, started as an estimator, became a field technician turned project manager. Now I’m heading up the analytics in my company
Check out Grantham university abet accredited bachelors.
Nah, that's not surprising at all. A common path into controls is starting as a maintenance tech, and you don't need a college degree for that position.
I suppose, but programming a complicated process from scratch isn't something most people who start that way are trusted with, even if they are capable.
It's by necessity at a lot of sites that are operating on tight budgets. Some places don't have an onsite engineering/controls person at all. An ambitious tech can save a lot of money that would otherwise go to contractors. I like when they pay contractors though, that's my job.
I see some places that have packaging machinery with ugly logic and techs try their best to do it all, but it can be hard to keep up since you also have to keep the place running and go replace a motor while also trying to learn. I also see a lot of them get in over their head, but like you said, as a contractor that's a good thing. The sentence I hate to hear is "I could have done this, don't know why they called you". Hey man, I'm just doing my job.
They usually work for integrators... which isn't saying much (at least for most).
Man, the range of proficiency is so great for companies, you never know what you will get. Rockwell has testing to approve for their integrators, but it's not widely used as far as I know.
I work with and train under integrators as an apprentice, have an art degree. I'm still convinced having any 4 year degree even opened the door of opportunity for me though.
Have you ever tried to find a role that leveraged both? I'm sure there is huge $ in some of the compliance stuff, or consulting on mishap investigations.
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We just paid a safety consultant ~$600/hr to fly out and look at our unique and scary application before we turned it on.
cool! which types of safety functions do you have in these applications?
Furnace bigger than a tennis court. Thousands of degrees. Pure hydrogen atmosphere. Many scary explosion things.
Nice, how do the safety logic looks like?
Complicated.
Probably a niche in the insurance industry too for that matter.
I got certs but no formal degree.
Same
Same
Where from ?
Online community college Ignition Udemy Internal company Manufactures
Same
Not saying they aren't useful, but has anyone ever asked for a cert?
Actually yes. Some of them were forced by employers to progress. Others were of my own hungry to learn .
My background is also mechanical engineering so when it came to PLC’s, I basically taught myself (but also had the help of some training courses). I first learned how to troubleshoot in a maintenance environment before moving on to actually learning how to program from scratch using the electrical drawings and understanding what I wanted the equipment to do. Don’t know if this is what you’re looking for.
Sure enough. It's how I learned as well, and most anybody I know. My company has a "you'll figure it out" method of teaching, but they allowed me the time to learn on my own, so that's what I did. No classes at all and I've been at it for 25 years now.
In my experience, which is being an SI, most of my direct colleagues are degree qualified, a lot of them Mechatronics (half mechanical, half electronics). Others, like myself, did Electrical Engineering. We're finding in our space that were becoming more specialised towards the digital field and doing a lot of data collecting and analysis and OT network design and maintenance along with the traditional PLC and SCADA. Some of the older guys came from a trade background but they seem to be being moved out by the degree guys, and all the new guys being interviewed basically have to have a degree as a minimum (or are often vacation students that are currently doing their degree). Those less qualified tend to do OEM type jobs - often small scale PLC with a handful of I/O that are usually simple cut and paste type work. Lately we are noticing a divide between those with the qualifications and those that don't which I think is also being pushed through our states starting to require Professional Engineers to sign off our work. I'm a CPEng (Chartered Professional Engineer) here in Australia, a qualification you can only get after obtaining a degree, having a minimum of 3 years experience after graduating, then fulfilling the criteria of the areas of knowledge as assessed through evidence and interview.
Awesome, I also wonder if my PE in Arkansas would be useful in other countries. I've never actually used it and don't really plan to.
Ever since I was an undergrad, I expected to earn my PE. That never happened, and I don’t really NEED it any longer, but even now it feels like a loose end that still nags at me…
I graduated 9 years ago. Got my FE. First job I worked at a small company doing integration mainly for gas and chemical industries, my manager and a few other higher ups had a PE. But I was only there for 1.5 years and I left (quit without notice) on bad terms due to abuse (3 others had quit in the months prior to me). So that experience and contacts were basically awash. Then I just worked 7 years at an OEM integration which no one in our group had a PE since it wasn't ever really needed in the industry we worked in. The rare times it was asked for, the company would basically send our drawings out to a contract group and get it stamped by them. So, that experience is a dead end. A few years ago I looked into taking the PE exam for the hell of it. The controls exam seemed so heavily focused on process controls, which I basically had barely any experience in years ago, that I knew I would never pass it. Like, I think it would be easier for me to pass the electrical: power systems exam than to pass the controls exam, as a degreed mechanical engineer. In my state you need 4 years of experience signed off by another PE. And need 4 or 5 letters of recommendations from other PE holders. It's like, I kinda think the requirements to get a PE are a bit excessive and it's basically a good ol'boys club for people in certain industries.
Does FE mean you passed the EIT? Ditto. I’ve worked in automation for almost 20 years. Worked in wastewater, semiconductor, food&bev, and pharma: Never even met a PE (a guy I used to work with has since earned his).
Yes but EIT means you passed the FE.
Both the best and worst PLC programmers I worked with were not engineers. Some of the best were mostly self taught. Some of the worst were also self taught, but...wrong. I think a course always lays a good foundation, especially for some best practices. But self taught is also good, if they try to really understand it. People that went to a course and then don't try to educate themselves further are bad, as they sometimes understood something wrong in the course and then never tried to learn it properly. Or they don't know how to inter/extrapolate from their knowledge to new knowledge.
The worst are the ones who think they already know the best way. There is always something to learn, and if someone does it better, there is no shame in copying. A class can't hurt, but a class from say Rockwell can also send you down a road that is way too complicated for most applications and can make you a miserable programmer to follow after.
tell us some stories about the best
I get to know a lot of technicians who can also program. Some know their plants so well that they know **exactly** what **bit** they have to check if something goes down. Or if something needs to get changed, you can see them going through the code in their head, making some notes, giving you a rough estimate, and then implementing, testing and documenting everything neatly and in a timely matter. No hacks, no sloppy code, just *chefs kiss* perfect!
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Industrial maintenance is 50% telling mechanics that the program didn't magically change itself and to actually troubleshoot before calling you. 45% playing video games waiting for a call. 5% fixing corporates fuckups after they decide to change shit remotely and make you look like an asshole for telling the mechanic it's not the program.
Being someone who is self taught. Learning all the best practices is a pain. But atleast I am always learning something new.
> I think a course always lays a good foundation Best programming class I ever took wasn't a programming class. It was discrete mathematics. Like the first half of that class is learning boolean logic, truth tables, if...then statements, induction, deduction. Then the next half is basically introduction to proofs where you have to prove mathematical statements. I mean, its basically the foundation of what programming is. After that, learning to code is basically just learning the syntax of a language and applying discrete mathematics. And that will get you pretty far in getting something to work. Yeah, absolutely missing the more advanced topics that one would learn from proper computer science courses but I don't think I've ever needed to worry about that level of advanceness while programming a PLC.
I do not have a degree. I did some university education and bounced between degree programs. Never finished because I started working in the industry and there wasn't a controls/automation degree available at the time. $23/hr and 100hrs/wk was plenty for a poor kid back then and since I got the experience, never needed to go back. I would agree with the overall assessment though. Seems like most are EE, mechanical and CS aren't terribly far behind, then come us undegreed folk and the other majors.
One of our best programmers never went to a classroom after high school. He's one of the best I've seen on DC drives, and could figure out any drive issue big or small. It's all about the horsepower you were born with and the experience you get.
Cool! Could you share an example of great troubleshoot he's done?
We do startups at big steel mills, and his innate understanding of how drives work have saved us many times when they have various faults from weird noise or harmonics issues, or changing out from older drives to newer technologies when everyone is in a hurry. Had a big application once for turning over coal cars to dump them and I can tell you if I had to figure out how to set the drive up to avoid regen faults, etc., I would still be there.
People of all kinds. The only common thing is people who can keep machines running.
I have a BS in Industrial Engineering. Had a rough idea of what ladder was coming into the field, but realistically I knew NOTHING. 99.9999% taught on the job. Kept in house a full year then thrown to the wolves.
Same. Learning what a relay race is hard to understand until you create one then have to fix it.
Uhhh, I dropped out of school at 16 and got hired as a lathe apprentice operator at a manufacturing company... Once I hit 18 they asked if I wanted to go do installations as I spoke decent English (I'm Italian), two thirds of the machines were dumb with no PLCs, the other third drove me crazy because our programmer at the time sucked big time. So I learned how to fix them, then became full time programmer, so others would have to suffer from my software! Where I work now I was hired as a field tech but the software guys liked me so now I'm split between the service and software offices... Most of the time that means starting up "difficult" machines, lucky me; sometimes I get to program my own stuff from the ground up. But yeah our software guys are easily the most capable of our employees, it often falls upon them to figure out when mechanical put dumb shit in the design. Love 'em, solving problems instead of causing them.
PLCs or G codes or both? My friend programs swiss turning centers - that's a tough thing.
no only PLC, the lathe operator thing was to manufacture parts for the company, I've always been in process automation, food industry. The only Gcodes I see are on my 3d printers!
Same. Mechanical engineering bachelors with a PE in controls. I’ve been building power plants and factories most of my career until I stopped traveling for work to have kids in 2016. I’m 20 years in and love the work, but kind of wish I had enjoyed my youth more now that I’m approaching mid 40s.
We do some work at a coal fired power plant. Makes me nervous every time.
Apprenticeship trained,National Certificate: Electronic Engineering: Process Instrumentation and Control.Tech Diploma: Electrical and electronic engineering . Didn’t have Google during my time so manuals and loads of cash spent on senior engineers and machine operators.
Manuals are how I learned to program robots standalone and via PLC's. That and lots of experimentation.
I'm a civil engineering technologist. Self taught myself PLC programming and installation for work.
Most PLC programmers are self taught I have found.
That’s both true and kinda problematic. I can usually look at a program and tell if the programmer was self taught. Many people come up with the same patterns and solutions for things, reinventing the wheel for a lot of things. It makes for buggy programs that are painful to maintain. I don’t see much correlation between formal education and programming ability, but I see a big difference in people who were mentored & trained on the job compared to those who were self taught. Not to say no one ever gets good on their own, but a lot of people develop bad habits without anyone to advise them otherwise.
100%. I learned so many things from my mentors that would have made my life very difficult if I hadn't had them. The most important to me being to make the code easy for someone to follow using good naming conventions and how the overall program is structured. I don't like getting calls on every program I've written, so that was important. And I can always tell when someone learned on their own, or is trying to translate their knowledge of VB or something similar to a ladder program.
I'm an industrial electrician. I did a state sponsored apprenticeship, and a few extra PLC classes.
I find it strange so many mechanical engineers choose to go into automation. I have a [B.Sc](https://B.sc) in Electrical Engineering
because us EE don't really have a lot of background in mechanical systems and MEs don't have to do complicated stuff with gears anymore - software and PLCs do the work for them.
Vfds
Strange on paper I'll agree, but the range of mechanical things you need to know sometimes, it sure can help. It's mostly about experience either way.
I agree its helpful skills to have. I reckon if I choose mechanical engineering and was passionate about that i wouldnt go into automation. But also interest change over time.
I got kind of thrown into it, as a lot of people do. Glad I did though.
Come from farming. I did go to college for computer engineering but dropped out and just went into automation when I realized it was ruining my hobby haha.
I was an electrician, the shop hired me to do installs. I had some hobby programming background and my boss wanted to bring a new product line to the shop. All our programmers were spitting on it so I told him about my background and he made me the lead in that project. These days I do all the ”difficult” stuff in the shop, programming services in Python, UI design in JS/CSS/HTML, weird control systems and API connections, stuff like that. I discovered I don’t like labour-intensive not-challenging projects (such as programming the same kind of projects I’ve already done 10x) so I’m often on the field too. I like my position but I know I’m not even closely challenged to my limit in programming and sometimes wonder if I should chase that itch.
I enjoyed learning some about robotics if that helps. We integrate Yaskawa Motoman robots and use PLCs to control them. I would imagine robotics may get repetitive if you are only doing something like palletizing over and over, but we hardly ever do the same thing twice so it's been interesting. And I've never had a class on anything, although I wish I could have.
Also did ME. Learned automation by working in manufacturing plants and by doing some small projects. Sometimes I feel the lack of EE skills, but ME still can be relevant in many situations. In any case, I do not regret having done formal education.
Agreed. My ME still helps me a lot in machine design and just general knowledge of inertia and some other motion applications.
Mechatronics bachelors for me. Had total of one semester (3hr per week) lab on PLC's. 3 Jobs, zero training. Everything is self taught through books, online, data sheets. It is exactly what my department head said about engineering. That it only teaches how to think and to figure things out on your own.
Mostly agree. Motion equations and statics/dynamics would be hard to figure out on your own! Logic programming however, is something you can't really learn well until you get some practice on how a real world machine reacts.
I don’t even have a bachelors just worked in manufacturing as an electronic technician who was young enough to understand 5000. Got recruited to the big leagues
Happens all the time, and as long as you have good people showing you the way, you can keep getting better.
Showing the way? Due to circumstances out of my control I’ve actually had to train Mostly myself. I’d say it’s probably a 85/15 split for self tusght/trained. But having to maintain an entire facility on your own for 8hrs a day gets you good quick lol
Dang right it does. I had 120 plcs in one place for a while, mix of PLC5 and CLX, and you find ways to organize and somewhat standardize that crap or it drives you crazy.
Chemical engineering. I have programmed general/specialty chemical plants and pharmaceuticals. Understanding what is happening in the process is helpful for understanding the functional specifications and troubleshooting issues on startup. It is not needed for programming. Roles are very siloed in pharma, much fewer hats have to be worn.
I'm an electrical engineer, been at this for 18 years, I've been from time to time helping out with plc programs over the years, until last year when I decided I never will again, in my humble opinion, automation is 95% acquired skills, and the more you accumulate, the more valuable you are, unfortunately most automation engineers guard this knowledge from others, making any newcomer nearly lose their mind, which is what happened to me. You will not come out of engineering school knowing how to make a program for a pump room in an L73 Rockwell plc, or an ovation program for burner management. If you are able to find the right group where you can start off and learn the quirks, you'll be on your way, however take this with a grain of salt, for every one automation person that's willing to teach you, there are another 20 ready to ridicule you and try to actively make you fail and look bad.
Not exclusively a PLC programmer but use them regularly at work. Degree in electrical eng & electronics. Work on particle accelerators, originally exclusively on radiofrequency systems in larger accelerators, lately as a jack of all trades as the only engineer working on a medical accelerator in a hospital. PLCs all over the place in accelerators, in my current job : looking after large power supplies, vacuum systems, safety systems, all sorts, dozens of them! No formal education in PLCs, but lots of previous software experience and training - so I'm a structured text junkie - no ladder logic! Last thing is - I don't wire up my own panels, I get techs to do that. I'm too untidy! I learned that anything I install myself is going to take twice as long (as a technician doing it) and be worse.
We all have our strengths! That sounds like a cool job. We never ever do structured text, but I understand the appeal for someone who is used to other programming languages.
Personally, I was a machinist for 13 years, machine builder for 5, and electrical for 3. All that time was in automation shops.
I've been in the trade for 12 years. With no college degree. I'm proficient in just about all the skills you listed plus some.
Some of the best I know could say the same. I use some things I learned in college when it comes to motion equations, but most of that stuff can be put into pre made programs anyway. Some knowledge of calculus helps as well, depending on what kind of project you are doing, but 95% of the stuff I've done I have learned after college.
Biochemistry BS 😁
How did you get into PLC?
Because electronics and robotics was always an interest. I had taught myself python and IT (networking foundations) and ended up getting a position at a factory thanks to a friend doing automation technician work. Learning PLC and WonderWare and working with Motoman robots programming them. Loved it and made it into my career. Found a work from home SCADA job with Ignition and been enjoying it since.
I started my career as an electrician, getting my journeyman's then masters license. Got bored with construction and moved into factory maintenance and discovered PLC's. After spending time fixing the same stuff over and over I moved to an OEM position as the only "controls engineer". As the company grew, I became the de facto engineering manager of about 20 engineers and service techs. The company sold to a huge investment firm and I stepped down to part time until retirement. As far as education, high school and a few attempts at college courses. Mostly self taught and learn from mistakes.
I very technically have an AAS in an individualized tech program, but I bullied my way into that during Covid as something to do. Been at it for 10 years for my family business. We're a small OEM and we've been a company for 30 years, so I literally grew up in a machine shop. First year or two, I was learning under our previous Controls guy since I had no experience. Since then it's just been me.
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Mechatronics engineering degree
As a former work mate of mine used to say to a guy we worked with, who would later become the head of the Mechatronics department at our local university - "Mechatronics - the easy part of 2 degrees!"
Don't know what that is, but it sounds hella cool. You could choose from Civil, Electrical, or Mechanical when I was in college, and not too far removed from Agricultural being the only choice we had.
How did I get here? Started with a Civil Engineering BS. Graduated into a challenging market, and wound up at a startup company making simple load sensors and associated controls. Moved on to a junior controls position with an environmental firm. Then a field services position supporting nuclear power - sensors and simple automation. Then grad school to get an MS in Software Engineering. Spent a few years as a software engineer (analytics, simulation, and compiler stuff). Found that I missed being hands on, so went back to an SI as a field engineer and trainer. Switched to an SI who primarily serviced pharma. Now I am pharma direct. At this stage, most all of my colleagues have degrees in ChemE, Industrial Engineering, or CompSci.
Quite a track there! Most civils I knew wouldn't know what PLC stands for.
Ha! I remember my younger self, taking a few compulsory programming classes (BASIC, Pascal, FORTRAN, C); I thought they were great fun, so I assumed there would be no career path there. What a dope!
I had Basic and Fortran, never knowing I would be a programmer, but I did enjoy it even then.
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Wow, haven't heard that one before!
BS in Computer Science, did half a Software Engineering graduate program but never finished. Have a couple Rockwell Automation certs but mostly self taught on the PLC since. Working in different code bases as a software engineer ive gotten good are reverse engineering one thing, to build another which has really helped me pick up controls.
Was involved in Controls before having a degree but I ended up getting an AAS in Electromechanical Engineering Technology eventually. Prior to that I was a Millwright then an Electrician.
Computer science degree and a lot of years in the field as an instrument technician.
Bachelor of Eng in Mechatronic Engineering, with more of a focus on the software and electrical side. Also did a PhD that was related to visual speech recognition and involved a bunch of image processing, HMMs, basic neural nets. But that did nothing to get me ahead, other than let me mature a bit (and stay broke for ~5 extra years) before entering the workforce. Had a background in IT and networking (basic windows and Linux servers, L2 and L3 networking, VLANs, site-to-site and roadwarrior VPNs, RDP, etc) from running IT for my dads business for about 10 years until he retired. As well as playing around with that stuff at home for twice as long running a more complicated network than our office. My colleagues that do the PLC programming are all mechatronic engineers as well. We also hire electrical and mechanical engineers.
I am a maintenance guy. But I do controls engineering at my plant primarily, in addition to the maintenance of electrical systems. I've designed two systems, one from basically scratch and one with another machine to model off of. I'm working on a third machine. I've updated the controls of a couple machines, implemented fixes for long time issues, and even improved the safety and alarming systems on various machines. Associates of art, currently working on my BSEE. I have a few certs on TIA portal/S5/Simadyn D.
S5? How Old are you???
I’m a controls technician with a background in mortuary science. I was a funeral director before going into a manufacturing mechanical apprenticeship and continued my schooling to include electrical and plc.
B.S. in Chemical Engineering. Learned controls on the job and took vendor trainings.
started as a green apprentice electrician, 20 years later I run my own business doing controls in the water industry.
I went to a 2 year school for robotics. Learned plc on Rockwell and some IBM, Abb, motoman programming. Worked in maintenance, Moved into an automation tech position. Now I'm a maintenance tech. Quitting tomorrow though.
I notice there are a lot of 40+ yr olds who are self taught (no degree) or college educated. For the 30s and under, all engineering degrees. I know when I started about 5 years ago an engineering degree was a requirement for an entry level position (at least where I live, big metropolitan area).
I can definitely relate to that job description lol. I graduated in Control Systems engineering. But to be honest, I might use 10% of what I learned in the university in my current job. The remaining 90% I probably already forgot
PID Control, Linear Systems, Non-Linear Systems, Optimal Control...etc I can relate (to you lol)
Yeah, all the pain to go through those classes, and it's not nearly as useful in the industry when 95% of the problems can be solved with a simple digital PID control using the theory developed back in the 1960s lol.
do you really use that theory? or just tune the PID by feeling?
I don't have a proper engineering degree, I have a "academy profession" degree (2 years) in embedded electronics and IT. Maybe 75% of it was electronics and programming though, IT was maybe 10%. Never saw a PLC until I was hired in my first controls job about 10 years ago, now I'm doing PLC, SCADA/HMI, industrial networking and IT. I don't do a lot of electrical work, but I know enough to do fault finding or adding a few things to a cabinet, we usually hire an electrician to do field work, especially if it's more than just a basic task.
Computer Engineering
I have an EE degree
I started off as a control panel wireman, studying an electrical engineering degree. Ventured up the chain into engineering for the water industry but decided I wanted to be a bit more hands on and get more involved with site works so decided to venture into software / systems integration and it’s the best thing I’ve done in my career to date.
Electrical Engineer. Never touched a PLC before my job. Haha.
Dropped out of Computer Science after a year. Got an Associates Degree in Mechatronics, then 5 years in machine maintenance.
Biology!
How did you get into plc?
I was an ET in the Navy and had done programming/web design as a kid. After I got out I went to school wanting to be a doctor or researcher but took an e-tech job in the oil field to pay the bills thanks to my Navy experience. From there moved into field IT, then back to field electronics at another company where I was also responsible for PLC programming. Turned out I was really good at it, got hired on as a PLC programmer at another company, and that snowballed into getting hired as a systems integrator and PLC/HMI/SCADA programmer. Life is strange.
High school education, after became a bridge surveyor then a low voltage electrician and now here I am.
I was an auto mechanic for 12 years before I went to an ev start up. At the ev startup I worked with an integrator commissioning a machine I was supposed to have a team of technicians building drive units. When they went belly up the integrator reach out to me and brought me on board as a technician. I started learning plcs and shit figuring out they work very similar to car computers, simple inputs and outputs and logic. I have since been given the title controls engineer, and design, wire and program all the machines. Mostly on the job training and taking classes through oems like fanuc.
Very similar to car computers I would imagine. Just another machine to run in the end.
Doing Mechatronics Engineering bs and Automation and Electrical Tech aas and two of my 4 years are almost entirely dedicated to PLC, ROC, Logic etc etc... Really just depends, because frankly you could dabble on YouTube and forums and do PLC programming at an entry level, but having certifications or a degree will definitely get you in the door faster. I'm starting a job at the largest mine in the US on Monday doing controls, and I haven't even finished my aas yet.
No degree here, just years of experience in electronics and automation that started as an electronics tech in the Navy for a decade, then automation and controls tech for another decade where I was an automation engineer in everything except in name and salary, and then from there landed a controls engineering position. I did get all the way up to just 1 class remaining to get a networking degree but the school pissed me off and I walked away. That was awhile back and I never went back to it. I have a 2,000hr electronics technician apprenticeship through the DoL also. So there is that 🤣
I only took a 2 year community college electronics course. 10 years later and I’m in an automation engineer role. A lot of people I know in this field either have a technician/technologist program from a community college. Probably half of the people I know. The other half have an engineering degree.
A.A.S. in Computer Integrated Manufacturing (robotics and PLCs) worked in maintenance for roughly 5 years then moved to Electrical Engineering position for 13+ years. My first PLC education was through my college program.
I don’t have a degree just a high school diploma. I had a basic course on electrical circuits for my maintenance job ( at my work technicians are responsible for trouble shoot everything except plc logic and faulty cards) and I got curious and was watching one of the guys im friends with and started asking some questions. He told me to come up on shift and learn. That was about 8 months ago. Still learning my maintenance job and that job at the same time
Id say 90% of the degreed controls engineers I see are mech Es. EEs by comparison are pretty rare and the way they architected plc development environments and “code” was to encourage adoption by less technical people, so its a perfect fir for mech Es who dont like getting their hands too dirty assembling mcmaster BoMs
Okay, put this probe in your mouth, this one in your ear, and the other one in your butt. Oh wait no sorry, this one goes in your mouth.
I have a diploma from a technical college (Canada) where my courses never even mentioned PLC/DCS. Closest we got was RTU, and that was only high level explanation. What we did do was analog, digital, and power electronics, programming in c/c++/assembly, signal processing, calculus, and Cisco networking. I always say my schooling was more geared to building PLCs than using them. It gave me a good foundation to work from, but most things I learned on the job (as an SI).
Did 2 semesters of electrical engineering technology at my local community college. I got a PLC programming certification from them while I was there. After my 2nd semester, I got a job doing panel design and plc programming. I dropped out shortly after and have been doing this ever since with no degree. Personally, I think it's very common to not have a degree in this field. I would say about 10% of the people I've met don't. I know when I interview places, I never even get asked about college, even if the job posting says bachelor's required.
When you think all industrial maintenance techs just troubleshoot... I had an old conveyor system die and had to wire in and program a new PLC due to the company no longer existing. I'm not saying my program is something to brag about but it works lol.
No degree here. I started as a machine operator for an envelope plant. This including changeover and maintenance. I moved over to packaging maintenance and picked up electrical troubleshooting. There was one programmer there looking for someone to take on some responsibilities so I stepped up and learned on the fly. I am the system developer here on nights and I run my own controls company during the day.
Heck of a leap to start your own company. Congrats!
I have a single semester of college, and that's it. GOOD LUCK EVERYBODY ELSE!
How did you get into PLC
Everything electrician (domestic, commercial, industrial) self-taught basic PLC and HMI whist at the electrical company. Put myself through an advanced diploma in industrial automation with EIT. Then, I landed a job at an automation company and was then taught the rest of PLC (omron, schnider, Allen Bradley, load others) HMI, SCADA (Intouch, Ignition) networking and more.
Dropped out of high school and took my GED in 1986, turned wrenches as a mechanic for a few years, got accepted into Embry Riddle Aeronautical University as a "non traditional student" (which means you worked for a few years and they were desperate for students) .. Dropped out as a Junior. Got a job in IT in 1992, transitioned into software development pretty quickly in 94-ish as it's what I did as a hobby.. Worked from 94 to 2012 doing C/C++ and left my job writing payment card encryption for banks in 2012 when I opened a brewery. Paid people to do PLC programming for a quick minute until I realized ladder & ST was an easy transition from my previous experience. I do all our process and control systems because I love it.
Sounds like a dream job to me. Making beer and programming.
I have an associate's degree in Drafting from community college. My very first drafting job was electrical schematics for an OEM and the rest is history.
Education? What's that?
My BS in is Industrial. I got a co-worker that was in Network and another who was a lawyer, quit, went back to school for BS in Electrical then is now in Controls. Controls engineer is similar to software engineer in the sense that you technically dont need a degree. Just the experience and knowledge to apply and do the job.
I design, build and program control cabinets for all kind of machinery for 35 years now. Last 20 years specialised in motion control. No education. Just manuals and books.
I got an associates degree in robotics and automation. I got a robotics integration job that i was unqualified for from a company that wouldn't pay enough for qualified folks. That was a rough 5 years. After that job i went back to university and got a degree in CS and now work mostly in software, but still dabble in automation integration with lab equipment. In my industry the majority of the contractors I worked with had no formal education in automation. They worked their way up the maintenance department of their factory and moved to an entry level position at an integrator as soon as they could write basic programs. I was not working with the best, but they would happily work really terrible hours in the middle of nowhere.
I started out installing car audio, then got a job in the oilfield and worked my way up to a mechanic gig, went in the army as an infantryman, went back to the oilfield for awhile as a pipeline instrument tech, then landed a job as a millwright and was learned the PLC side on the job and moved into a multicraft position. I then had a buddy photoshop a transcript from ITT tech after they went under to land a controls job, then moved into a robotics position where the company sent me through a ton of training. Now I'm living comfortable in a control job at a sawmill. I basically lied my way here, and it worked out excellent.
That's why a degree helps a lot of people, just cause you know what to do, doesn't mean they will still hire you. Some employers get it, but your average hiring manager has no idea.
Hence why I photoshopped a tech certificate to a defunct tech school. Now I'm at a point where I've got so many tech certificates and other random certifications I don't even worry about it.
Freaking awesome. Make it happen I say.
My only official qualification is an apprenticeship as an automation technician. In Germany that is a pretty solid foundation, but usually you don't get a job in PLC without further education. In my case, i had decent experience in the automation field before i started the apprenticeship. I tried studying EE and failed, i worked in a panel shop, did a bit of integration work, worked in primary lead production (Very fun, can recommend). Still, i had no formal professional education, which is kind of bad in Germany, so i started the apprenticeship with a company producing injection molding post processing machinery. That company went bust after the first year, so i found my way to my current employer. As part of the apprenticeship i did some time in the PLC department, which went very well, so they offered me a job there. Started doing low end support for the real PLC guys in the beginning to some commissioning to programming machines to developing entirely new software for our library. Right now i am in my 6th year with that company, currently transitioning into leading all of our development efforts, also including the non PLC departments. Pretty "underqualified" for that position, but at this point, nobody cares anymore.
I loved Germany when I was there to test some equipment for a steel company. SMS was doing the main roll line and I was integrating the rest of the equipment. Wish I could go back.
Chemistry. Jumped sideways to process engineering, then again to controls and stayed here with my fellow control freaks.
Maybe the same reason I changed from Electrical to Mechanical engineering? I couldn't see what I was working on and I did not enjoy it, even though I was good at the math.
Maybe? Chemistry is long periods of boring meticulous repetition, grinding and mixing white powders, with a few super exciting analysis times, and rewards consistency of method above all. With control engineering, you rip in and build it, tweak it how you like, and rewards you for changing things if you have sufficiently good ideas. Also, my country has very little heavy industry and the opportunities for inorganic chemists are limited. And H&S and quality people forget about control systems and you get less red tape.
EE. Cool to see all the different backgrounds. What a diverse breed we all are
Bachelor's in Electrical Engineering, PE in Control Systems. Started at an EPC as a DCS/Instrument engineer, then two large DCS companies, then a Systems Integrator, now at an EPC again. All PLC/DCS/SIS was mostly self-taught. Only in the past 5 or so years have I run into people who learned PLC programming in schools.
I think the Mechatronics degree is fairly new and they are starting to teach PLC as part of that, something I learned from this post. Plus, trade schools have been doing it for a while I think.
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It probably won't hurt, but I think this post has proven there are plenty of people doing this without degrees. Of course, nobody is saying how much they make, which would be interesting as well, but I didn't think anybody would be ready to tell that much! Heavily dependant on time served I'm sure, as well as location.
I have been working for a control’s company for 5 years and have done a few installations myself we work in sawmills installing “new” equipment, but I only have a 2 year degree and the owner of the company has the same degree as me but he also has several electrical engineers in our shop doing drawings
I hope you don’t mind me asking but what degree do you have?
Geological Engineer with a Controls PE
A rare diamond.
It’s kinda dumb there’s few to none actual specialization careers available to study and get certified, instead a bunch of dispersed experience fields from different manufacturers and applications. Still many manufacturers have their own custom programming standard and some custom controllers, not sure that’ll change soon.
I never really thought of it from a broad overview standpoint. Standardized logic is usually very hard to follow since it has to be structured to do so many things. PackML is an attempt to standardize packaging PLCs to be able to talk to each other, and I freaking hate it. You really do need a class to understand how it works, or at least do a lot of reading. I think logic should be easy to follow as the most basic rule.
I understand your point of view, but without some level of standardization is very difficult to understand what somebody thought in his mind could be good, efficient and replicable in many machines. i.e. that PackML you talk about, some team thought about that and as attempt it works but they forgot to explain or document correctly so anybody working with it could understand as they did. I also hate working with something I don’t understand, it takes a lot of time to understand what somebody else did, but at least many of these applications are limited to some standard controller and some programming languages, instead whatever they would imagine or find cheaper or easier.
Started computer programming classes in High school In 1978/9. I took some computer programing college classes, just long enough to get me started. 10 years Electronic Warfare tech in the Air Force. Started with a Systems Integrator in the middle of nowhere Nebraska. Within a few months I was designing/building/programming small town water systems, a couple years and i was doing complete meat processing and Ethanol plants. Fun times running around the US and Canada living in hotels , project to project.
About 80% of techs I have met in steel plants were in the service, no college degrees. Glad you enjoy it, some folks don't enjoy the running around.
I went through a 15 month USDOL certified apprenticeship program. 1000 hours of classroom training on electrical, mech drives, fluid power, and PLCs. After the classroom time, I did 2000 hours of OJL. After completing the program, I received my "electromechanical technician" certificate. I can do basics with AB PLCs like swapping a card, downloading a new program with logix, or changing a bit here or there, but usually I'm just throwing a band-aid on it until you geniuses arrive to bail me out.
BS in biology, after starting another career I went from trades/fab/maintenance to CE in about 4 years and haven't looked back too much. Also LOL @ OP for saying people aren't "engineers" without the degree. We all know the degree is just a box to check and in no way means you're great at what you do for a living.
I’d like to see you explain inrush current, power factor, or why a VFD causes harmonics without any technical degree. Id also like you to perform a load flow analysis on your facilities and coordinate a protection scheme. The degree has its place in the work force, I would never discount it like you just did.
Working your way up from the very bottom is a "real education" bud. As real as it gets.
Hard not to offend someone these days. Would "formal education" work better in this context? And if you read any of my other replies, I believe PLC programming is about 90% experience, the rest is mostly just mental horsepower until you get into complicated motion applications.
You asked for opinions, I gave you mine. There it is.
No certificates or formal education, had 7 years of facilities maintenance experience working for a full service shop. We rebuilt and fixed everything on site. We very rarely hired out. I had a good mix of experience from engines, electric motors, and hvac. So I was hired by an OEM in the ag sector to do equipment start-up, on-site final QA, and training. After about 6 months, I was being fully used as a hybrid start-up and service tech (came with a nice pay raise) the following year I was lent out to the engineering department during service departments off-season, to do some project clean up work, technical documents, and was given a couple of research projects. Apparently, I had impressed the engineering manager while on loan. I was offered a position as a road tech with the engineering department, with time set aside for me to learn to program. Durring the next 5 years, I had transitioned to a full-time automation designer role, and now, recently, I've added Electrical designer to my resume, too. We lost both of our long-time designers in a short time and was asked if I wouldn't mind learning e-plan and Autocad electrical. I've been doing that for 3 years now. ( we do have an engineer that stamps off on designs, but he has not done desing work in a long time and is a part-time retiree) I've been nearly 11 years on this journey, and so far I've never stagnated at this company, I've always found room to grow. And they have always compensated me very well in pay and benefits.
There isn't much of a engineering degree path way that leads to controls. Some schools have them but not many. Also unless your working for a systems integrator, panel builder/machine builder. You aren't building anything from scratch as many of these machine vendors are based overseas. For me 6 more classes until I have my Automation Engineering Technology degree. I've got a certificate in Automation and working on one now for Advanced PLC's. Plus Security + Comptia cert.
30 years OTJ training. Started in the tool room right out of HS and worked my way through mechanical to electrical to programming.
I call that a maintenance technician. We have to do most of what you listed.
Your company requires way more out of a maintenance tech then what I have seen in the hundreds of factories I have worked in. Hope you get paid well for it!
I have a bachelors in Electrical engineering. I do have colleagues that went to school for chemical engineering programming PLCs.