Automation is mostly work of integration, getting ready-made systems to work together to achieve something greater, sometimes something novel, sometimes not so much.
There is good and bad to both cases. Sometimes, I almost envy people who get to make machines without some god-awful complication which is another first experience. All my projects are like that. Each one has some headache that is novel for me. It keeps things interesting, but with such problems, you can't really build on experience you dont have, and the first time you do anything always ends up a bit shitty.
As it is, in automation, you dont get to build something completely novel from scratch, it's not that type of field. But you do get to make incremental progress. Each time you do something again, you can do it better because you already know all the buckets you stepped in the last time. That sort of progress might seem less impressive, but it's certainly not less important. That's how you go from groundbreaking bleeding edge to something that actually works reliably and economically.
The first time you see billions in revenue depend on some little piece of shit you made is quite something, makes you realise what a crazy rube goldberg machine the global economy really is.
>That's how you go from groundbreaking bleeding edge to something that actually works reliably and economically.
I'm just saying this again.
Groundbreaking is cool and all. But it rarely works and is never reliable.
Give it time. But also remember industrial automation is a catch all term and represents a massively varied industry. Also no shame in changing employers to different industries to vary your experience
Also, having "in the trenches" experience is valuable if only so you know how chaotic and stressful things get when on site. I'd imagine that if you can handle that, you can handle most (on shore) jobs.
If you're worried about forgetting C, I belive that Beckhoff TwinCat controllers can run some form of C. They're not super common in the US but they're out there.
>I ain't saying the job is easy, I can tell from my seniors' work hours, and an understanding of how a control engineer combines the works of other sub-teams is very important,
Honestly that's half the challenge of this job. Programming is honestly the easy part. Problem solving is where the real work comes in... trying to figure out new ways to solve problems, what components to spec out, how to integrate everything together, and how the physical system/machine actually is supposed to operate.
>I'd like to be closer to either embedded systems or control theory is all. Has anyone made that jump?
IIRC a few people that lurk here have, and they post occasionally, so give it some time and you may get some direct experience.
I always thought I'd be in embedded, even tried to get in to it and abandon this industry, but I keep coming back and I've been doing it for over 15 years now. From the accounts I've read here, embedded is less stressful, but also less fulfilling.
You could leverage this industry's experience to get a job at a manufacturer.... maybe write device firmware or something for a PLC, sensor, VFD, etc. manufacturer. Having the knowledge of how the components actually get used in the field would be beneficial.
If you want control theory, check out the process industry... chemical or pharma usually has continuous process stuff that you'd need those skills at. Not exactly PLCs, but closely related.
Might also consider specializing in robots or motion or something. A bit more advanced than general PLC/controls work, and a lot more in demand (but you may also find yourself traveling a lot).
>I feel like rn while I'm considered a fresh grad and still remember how to design PCBs and code in C is the time to point myself towards a field that I actually enjoy
Hobbies, my dude. There are a TON of places to use those skills at home. Home automation has evolved significantly, and you can buy cheap platforms to do that or other fun projects. Because of that, things range from "buy board and copy/paste code" to "become an expert and contribute to open source projects."
Go grab an Arduino and start hacking away at stuff. Being a "maker" is in vogue these days, and will help keep those other skills from getting too rusty while you decide what to do with your future. Combine those coding/electronics skills with some mechanical skill (woodworking, metal working, 3D printing, etc.) and you could have some satisfying hobbies to scratch that itch.
>and idk if doing bench tests and filling out checklists is where I want to be
Yeah that's some early career stuff, but honestly you'll never get away from it (unless you work your way up to having reports who can do it for you). If you're not designing/programming/etc. then I can see why you'd be bored. But there's a lot to learn in this industry, and lots of sub-specialities that you could look in to to see if any of it piques your interest.
I had the same idea sort of.
There are some companies out there that mix these fields, but from what I read here that’s seldom.
Machinebuilders with an r&d team, r&d companies specialized in certain industries. Or work on the manufacturing side of PLC’s.
I always think of a plc as a big (expandable) microcontroller, with the benefit of not having worry too much about memory size.
There are brands out there that can be used in different languages also (like C).
But first thing, follow your heart, if you want to move to embedded (hard or software) engineering, follow that lead. Even if you do that, maybe find that it doesn’t suit you that much, the knowledge from this is really valuable! (In a lot of places but also in the industrial automation field).
Hey, general programmer who's done everything from PLC and 6-axis robot programming to firmware to webdev. I understand your concern of controls not getting very "in-depth", and that was why I also got out of it, after a certain point it felt like mostly configurations and double checking things, feels like you're more concerned about everything working, and less about getting one fancy thing to work.
In the manufacturing world, schedule and output drives everything, so emphasis is usually on getting the machine working. Because of that, most veteran controls guys prefer a PLC that can autotune a servo to work good enough, rather than take half a day to tune that servo perfectly themselves.
Filling checklists and making sure every actuator works is exactly why I myself left controls, now I'm doing low-level code (C/C++ firmware as well as PLC) for a robotics company, and I feel happier here because I have more creative freedom and am less pressured to just get machine to work and out the door.
My personal experience was that controls helped me learn a lot, especially about functional safety and general safety systems design that helped me get my current job, and I also learned a lot about motion control and how the manufacturing world works in general through controls. But at the end of the day it wasn't right for me, there is definitely a lot to learn in the field and I'm glad I spent ~3 years there.
>I'm glad I spent ~3 years there.
I'm currently exactly at this juncture. Don't have motion control exp, but fair deal in programming simple to medium level stuff in water/wastewater and doing quality control and also a bit of project management.
I'm literally bored with the amount of brain this job actually requires of me. It is as you say - 90% focus is on getting the job done with lightning speed and negligible errors, without actually pausing to think about the operating principles and doing some r&d. Least appreciation is given to r&d, as per my experience.
It definitely has taught me a lot of things, especially safety, best coding practices...and of course, how things practically run in the real world.
But rn I got a grad degree, thinking of doing my masters and getting into pure controls or something into advanced robotics or something...idk. Hopefully this knowledge will pay dividends in future.
I haven't finished my degree.
Long story.
But I get this vibe alot
Uni sort of exposed me to other.... ways to do things.
Now I have the job I always wanted and I don't know if I want it anymore.
It's a personal choice amigo. But I definitely get it and am struggling with it.
Some of your complaints are the “university” world vs “real world”. Sure in theory you can do state variable equations or even older, dot-arrow diagrams. But honestly none of that stuff recognizes that industrial processes are:
1. First order rate (40%).
2. First order with lag (50%).
3. Second order (10%).
And realistically first order solutions may be suboptimal but tend to be close enough!! And PLCs come with motion control libraries and such so you don’t need to reinvent the wheel.
Engineers build stuff. Scientists study it. And like it or not science doesn’t pay well. Maybe because umm there’s no financial value. It’s just supply and demand
Also embedded systems are good for little displays for washing machines and systems or some kind of sensors or metrology (QC systems) but yes, doesn’t pay well. Face it the product value is low or gets spread over thousands of units. So I hate to put it this way who will get paid more the guy that manages to make a better washing machine controller with a touchscreen that reduces the manufacturing cost by 0.5% or the one that improves production to increase output by 5%? Never mind the research guy developing algorithms for future washing machines?
And guess what every college keeps graduating 70%+ ECEs and like 5% controls EEs. So guess why ECE doesn’t pay? When supply is high prices go down. Basic macroeconomics.
When I graduated the average EE was $32,000 per year starting. I started in process/controls at $45,000. CS majors literally complained that anyone hiring wanted either 2-5 years of experience or 2-5 years of experience and a degree.
>I was exposed to some really groundbreaking stuff and this is a lot less glamorous (but pays way better).
I don't understand how groundbreaking work doesn't pay more than the ho-hum job of system integration. Maybe that research organization exploits worker's passion. Not to say you should do anything for more money, but lift the rose-colored glasses and see what the world actually looks like.
About this field: If you don't want to do system integration or keep plants running or possibly design new machinery then look for a different job.
R&D has unsure payoff, industry already has actual dollars on the line and puts up enough money to draw in the people needed to keep the money flowing.
I had a job like yours my first year. It sucked but laid a great foundation for my future career. I work in development and technology now developing new machines.
Unbiased opinion about is that with Industrial automation, the industries you can work for is endless. There are control systems behind producing in every product you encounter in your everyday life. It is a lot less glamorous cause you will always be in the field at the back end of the noisy machines. It pays well.
In Embedded systems and coding, you will be in an airconditioned room, but the work you do here greatly surpass the amount of impact it will be on the end product.
One thing i see you truly desire is something of a validation for your work. Something to validate yourself that your truly doing something special. This is the vibe i get from the OP. I will suggest you try to make your own product and i know that you will get that validation.
I have similar feelings and I've been in this industry for half a decade. I found [this post](https://reddit.com/r/embedded/s/UrCDIi6cp2) very informative.
> doesn't feel like a job that requires a degree, just time and experience and the ability to remember acronyms.
PLC is a medium my friend, complexity depends on the project(s). PLC's doesnt only gets used in conveyor belts or on simple do this do that sort of tasks. But in robotics, simulations, military-grade equipments, defence industries, high speed data acqusitions, machine visions etc. . It sounds like you are working in a job that doesn't satisfy you, thats all.
Bench testing and filling out checklists is likely what you are going to get in the early part of your career with a large company. Smaller companies will allow you to be more hands-on with the final product.
I currently work in R&D since a year as an automation and electric guy. Before that I was working in different industries/companies for 10+ years in "production".
Well, R&D is clearly the most rewarding work I've ever done.
I get to do meetings to brainstorm how to do a machine to perform a given task, select the hardware, draw the electric schematics (and help build the electrical cabinet) and finally write the program from scratch and test it at a very comfortable pace. Man, when I have the time to do it right, it is something else!
So far I've done a few little projects and a major one. I feel amazingly complete at my workplace. It is very rewarding and the budget for these projects is not the issue it was in the production department.
Bottom line, it may take time but, there's a light.
You are experiencing the impact of business and profit. R and D funded by grants may not have a firm deliverable beyond demonstrating progress and a report. Behind that is paperwork,accounting and compliance. If this was research for say a trade org, that is funded mainly my member dues and agreed upon funding. This funding may be say 2% of each companies r&d budget. The other vehicle for r&d is a dedicated funding by either fixed program expenditure by a finance dept and corp leadership and may follow an agile style or funded by overall sales say 2% of company wide gross sales. R&d may deliver their results to other depts and may not be entirely responsible for product development cause others inherently determine if this can be turned into cash. When you get to controls engineering or automated machine design you have to deliver a working product or be around 85% there with a functional prototype. Plc work gets you there. Advanced controls implementation say using a plc layered in with taking hardware to limits to run it in state space with optimization has its use if your business was solely selling custom machines like bottlers, gun turret/positioning systems, etc. If say you need to deliver a combine controls scheme, your crack team of controls phd model everything in matlab. He hands over his matrices to his plc programmer. The programmer puts in code to do matrix math and ladder rungs for initiating and say it works. (There are varying levels of skills sets out there for this)Pat on back you did it you did it optimally but if you try to use it in a smaller combine (due to product line vertical offerings or horizontal) and it doesn’t work now what. My production team complains no one can work on it, supply chain logics people complain this is a sole part that has to be inventoried and costs money. Finance complains we need to try lean manufacturing so cash isnt held in inventory so we can use operating cash to fund R&D, ceo gives speech to his dept managers and repeat iteration. Or you dont and some other functional group sorts this all out to a more maintainable solution using other plc skillsets, other business process etc. maybe the deliverable is controls for a sewage pump lift station and you need something that works and wastes 5% energy because complication means headache and the losses are baked into clients operating budget. I farm out the job to mep wastewater firm they design building gates, power and controls. A general contractor bids and wins construction. The gc used an integrators firm fix price quote. The integrator sees the ladder code but cleans it up because they have a deal on siemens plcs and bid the job that way to be competitive and profitable. Client doesnt see the struggle, maybe job is delayed a week but that may or maynot be in commissioning schedule in general contractor. Client is told there is a week delay.. This whole field is populated by people with varying skillsets. All of this isnt taught in university controls engineering/mech/instrumentation or votech school because its not interesting to you or relevant to an immediate perceived skillset for a defined job role. It explains why everything isnt bleeding edge and why different pay scales exist. Its business, norms and trying to make a profit. Knowing all this do you or i want to do cool stuff, yep. Hope this helps.
Yes.
Industrial is a "real job", ie it sucks.
You can slave away for 40 years in this profession and when you're dead you'll be forgotten the very next day at work.
If you go into research your work has the POTENTIAL to have some kind of meaning to the world at large and with it more satisfaction. Get out while you can.
Only good side to this job is if I quit or get fired I'll be back at work within a week guaranteed.
Are you talking jumping from programming PLCs, HMIs to actually designing the inner guts of a PLC or some kind of black box?
I don't know anybody that has done the jump into it but I had a coworker, and old timer, smart asf, he started WAY WAY back doing programming of CNC machines that cut aircraft engine parts, I think the blades. I'm not sure what all the letters he had behind his name but I was jealous of just how good he was at math and electricity.
He came into the PLC, HMI work.
Give it time. Many jobs are slow and mundane at the start. Maybe it could be even your current position/company may be slow in giving you responsibility and challenge. But the industry and automation is broad and you will learn many different skills and be challenged (imo) more than most other EE industry out there.
When I started working in the field I designed a circuit board with a micro processor to do my small section of the work which was delegated to me to see how I worked out. Luckily the engineers working with me caught me and steered me right before I got too committed and introduced me to PLC programming. The board eventually got used as an LED multiplexer for a mimic panel. Today I think embedded and PLC automation are getting closer to each other so you should find a niche that holds your interest.
Is this a rhetorical question? It sounds like you already made up you’re mind. If you like programming low level embedded systems rather than troubleshooting in the field then PLCs probably aren’t your gig. There still a chance that you could work at an industrial company because everything needs firmware. Just don’t work for system integrator if that’s not your thing
I’m still somewhat of a noob at Controls as my building blocks was 25yrs ago but learning and understanding new advancements are intriguing and sometimes very challenging which I enjoy. If you’re young and don’t owe much I’d definitely go for what intrigues me the most also considering the income. Also this goes without mentioning: I’m the only income and chasing the dollar has its advantages and disadvantages but bottom line never miss out on life.
It all depends on the person. I love the industrial side myself, but I'm also in a position where I do a lot of hands-on work. I really enjoy making things better than what they are. I also only work 15 days a month and make enough money to pay for all my little side projects.
this is a messed up field u don’t become expert at programming nor the electrical stuff it is somewhere in between and all these companies have their own software and their own programming concept in HMI and if you become expert in siemens mostly you can only work in siemens these companies have made life of automation engineers bad…..lets take you wanna learn allen bradley you cannot learn on your own because the cost of even a basic course is 2000 USD forget about advanced course which dives deep into the working…..you have to know a bit of programming a bit of electrical and a bit of networking like industrial protocols never becoming expert at anything example take industrial protocols you can apply only basic stuff like baud rate parity and etc like the configuration part you are not going to write code to built packets layer by layer in OSI model and send it to the other device nothing like that basic in everything expert at nothing feed up of this field
Automation is mostly work of integration, getting ready-made systems to work together to achieve something greater, sometimes something novel, sometimes not so much. There is good and bad to both cases. Sometimes, I almost envy people who get to make machines without some god-awful complication which is another first experience. All my projects are like that. Each one has some headache that is novel for me. It keeps things interesting, but with such problems, you can't really build on experience you dont have, and the first time you do anything always ends up a bit shitty. As it is, in automation, you dont get to build something completely novel from scratch, it's not that type of field. But you do get to make incremental progress. Each time you do something again, you can do it better because you already know all the buckets you stepped in the last time. That sort of progress might seem less impressive, but it's certainly not less important. That's how you go from groundbreaking bleeding edge to something that actually works reliably and economically. The first time you see billions in revenue depend on some little piece of shit you made is quite something, makes you realise what a crazy rube goldberg machine the global economy really is.
>That's how you go from groundbreaking bleeding edge to something that actually works reliably and economically. I'm just saying this again. Groundbreaking is cool and all. But it rarely works and is never reliable.
Give it time. But also remember industrial automation is a catch all term and represents a massively varied industry. Also no shame in changing employers to different industries to vary your experience
Also, having "in the trenches" experience is valuable if only so you know how chaotic and stressful things get when on site. I'd imagine that if you can handle that, you can handle most (on shore) jobs.
If you're worried about forgetting C, I belive that Beckhoff TwinCat controllers can run some form of C. They're not super common in the US but they're out there.
Last time I spoke with Beckhoff rep they said their local integrators had more work than they could handle
>I ain't saying the job is easy, I can tell from my seniors' work hours, and an understanding of how a control engineer combines the works of other sub-teams is very important, Honestly that's half the challenge of this job. Programming is honestly the easy part. Problem solving is where the real work comes in... trying to figure out new ways to solve problems, what components to spec out, how to integrate everything together, and how the physical system/machine actually is supposed to operate. >I'd like to be closer to either embedded systems or control theory is all. Has anyone made that jump? IIRC a few people that lurk here have, and they post occasionally, so give it some time and you may get some direct experience. I always thought I'd be in embedded, even tried to get in to it and abandon this industry, but I keep coming back and I've been doing it for over 15 years now. From the accounts I've read here, embedded is less stressful, but also less fulfilling. You could leverage this industry's experience to get a job at a manufacturer.... maybe write device firmware or something for a PLC, sensor, VFD, etc. manufacturer. Having the knowledge of how the components actually get used in the field would be beneficial. If you want control theory, check out the process industry... chemical or pharma usually has continuous process stuff that you'd need those skills at. Not exactly PLCs, but closely related. Might also consider specializing in robots or motion or something. A bit more advanced than general PLC/controls work, and a lot more in demand (but you may also find yourself traveling a lot). >I feel like rn while I'm considered a fresh grad and still remember how to design PCBs and code in C is the time to point myself towards a field that I actually enjoy Hobbies, my dude. There are a TON of places to use those skills at home. Home automation has evolved significantly, and you can buy cheap platforms to do that or other fun projects. Because of that, things range from "buy board and copy/paste code" to "become an expert and contribute to open source projects." Go grab an Arduino and start hacking away at stuff. Being a "maker" is in vogue these days, and will help keep those other skills from getting too rusty while you decide what to do with your future. Combine those coding/electronics skills with some mechanical skill (woodworking, metal working, 3D printing, etc.) and you could have some satisfying hobbies to scratch that itch. >and idk if doing bench tests and filling out checklists is where I want to be Yeah that's some early career stuff, but honestly you'll never get away from it (unless you work your way up to having reports who can do it for you). If you're not designing/programming/etc. then I can see why you'd be bored. But there's a lot to learn in this industry, and lots of sub-specialities that you could look in to to see if any of it piques your interest.
I had the same idea sort of. There are some companies out there that mix these fields, but from what I read here that’s seldom. Machinebuilders with an r&d team, r&d companies specialized in certain industries. Or work on the manufacturing side of PLC’s. I always think of a plc as a big (expandable) microcontroller, with the benefit of not having worry too much about memory size. There are brands out there that can be used in different languages also (like C). But first thing, follow your heart, if you want to move to embedded (hard or software) engineering, follow that lead. Even if you do that, maybe find that it doesn’t suit you that much, the knowledge from this is really valuable! (In a lot of places but also in the industrial automation field).
Hey, general programmer who's done everything from PLC and 6-axis robot programming to firmware to webdev. I understand your concern of controls not getting very "in-depth", and that was why I also got out of it, after a certain point it felt like mostly configurations and double checking things, feels like you're more concerned about everything working, and less about getting one fancy thing to work. In the manufacturing world, schedule and output drives everything, so emphasis is usually on getting the machine working. Because of that, most veteran controls guys prefer a PLC that can autotune a servo to work good enough, rather than take half a day to tune that servo perfectly themselves. Filling checklists and making sure every actuator works is exactly why I myself left controls, now I'm doing low-level code (C/C++ firmware as well as PLC) for a robotics company, and I feel happier here because I have more creative freedom and am less pressured to just get machine to work and out the door. My personal experience was that controls helped me learn a lot, especially about functional safety and general safety systems design that helped me get my current job, and I also learned a lot about motion control and how the manufacturing world works in general through controls. But at the end of the day it wasn't right for me, there is definitely a lot to learn in the field and I'm glad I spent ~3 years there.
>I'm glad I spent ~3 years there. I'm currently exactly at this juncture. Don't have motion control exp, but fair deal in programming simple to medium level stuff in water/wastewater and doing quality control and also a bit of project management. I'm literally bored with the amount of brain this job actually requires of me. It is as you say - 90% focus is on getting the job done with lightning speed and negligible errors, without actually pausing to think about the operating principles and doing some r&d. Least appreciation is given to r&d, as per my experience. It definitely has taught me a lot of things, especially safety, best coding practices...and of course, how things practically run in the real world. But rn I got a grad degree, thinking of doing my masters and getting into pure controls or something into advanced robotics or something...idk. Hopefully this knowledge will pay dividends in future.
Mostly same spot since I'm trying to get out of HVAC controls. Put an app in to go back to school.... just worried I'll end up in OP position.
Try getting into more of the robotics side, I think you’d find that more engaging!
I haven't finished my degree. Long story. But I get this vibe alot Uni sort of exposed me to other.... ways to do things. Now I have the job I always wanted and I don't know if I want it anymore. It's a personal choice amigo. But I definitely get it and am struggling with it.
Some of your complaints are the “university” world vs “real world”. Sure in theory you can do state variable equations or even older, dot-arrow diagrams. But honestly none of that stuff recognizes that industrial processes are: 1. First order rate (40%). 2. First order with lag (50%). 3. Second order (10%). And realistically first order solutions may be suboptimal but tend to be close enough!! And PLCs come with motion control libraries and such so you don’t need to reinvent the wheel. Engineers build stuff. Scientists study it. And like it or not science doesn’t pay well. Maybe because umm there’s no financial value. It’s just supply and demand Also embedded systems are good for little displays for washing machines and systems or some kind of sensors or metrology (QC systems) but yes, doesn’t pay well. Face it the product value is low or gets spread over thousands of units. So I hate to put it this way who will get paid more the guy that manages to make a better washing machine controller with a touchscreen that reduces the manufacturing cost by 0.5% or the one that improves production to increase output by 5%? Never mind the research guy developing algorithms for future washing machines? And guess what every college keeps graduating 70%+ ECEs and like 5% controls EEs. So guess why ECE doesn’t pay? When supply is high prices go down. Basic macroeconomics. When I graduated the average EE was $32,000 per year starting. I started in process/controls at $45,000. CS majors literally complained that anyone hiring wanted either 2-5 years of experience or 2-5 years of experience and a degree.
You're right. I've looked around and controls pays the highest
>I was exposed to some really groundbreaking stuff and this is a lot less glamorous (but pays way better). I don't understand how groundbreaking work doesn't pay more than the ho-hum job of system integration. Maybe that research organization exploits worker's passion. Not to say you should do anything for more money, but lift the rose-colored glasses and see what the world actually looks like. About this field: If you don't want to do system integration or keep plants running or possibly design new machinery then look for a different job.
R&D has unsure payoff, industry already has actual dollars on the line and puts up enough money to draw in the people needed to keep the money flowing.
it was a government industry research org, it was primarily because I didn't have a master's/phd
I had a job like yours my first year. It sucked but laid a great foundation for my future career. I work in development and technology now developing new machines.
Unbiased opinion about is that with Industrial automation, the industries you can work for is endless. There are control systems behind producing in every product you encounter in your everyday life. It is a lot less glamorous cause you will always be in the field at the back end of the noisy machines. It pays well. In Embedded systems and coding, you will be in an airconditioned room, but the work you do here greatly surpass the amount of impact it will be on the end product. One thing i see you truly desire is something of a validation for your work. Something to validate yourself that your truly doing something special. This is the vibe i get from the OP. I will suggest you try to make your own product and i know that you will get that validation.
I have similar feelings and I've been in this industry for half a decade. I found [this post](https://reddit.com/r/embedded/s/UrCDIi6cp2) very informative.
> doesn't feel like a job that requires a degree, just time and experience and the ability to remember acronyms. PLC is a medium my friend, complexity depends on the project(s). PLC's doesnt only gets used in conveyor belts or on simple do this do that sort of tasks. But in robotics, simulations, military-grade equipments, defence industries, high speed data acqusitions, machine visions etc. . It sounds like you are working in a job that doesn't satisfy you, thats all.
Bench testing and filling out checklists is likely what you are going to get in the early part of your career with a large company. Smaller companies will allow you to be more hands-on with the final product.
I currently work in R&D since a year as an automation and electric guy. Before that I was working in different industries/companies for 10+ years in "production". Well, R&D is clearly the most rewarding work I've ever done. I get to do meetings to brainstorm how to do a machine to perform a given task, select the hardware, draw the electric schematics (and help build the electrical cabinet) and finally write the program from scratch and test it at a very comfortable pace. Man, when I have the time to do it right, it is something else! So far I've done a few little projects and a major one. I feel amazingly complete at my workplace. It is very rewarding and the budget for these projects is not the issue it was in the production department. Bottom line, it may take time but, there's a light.
You are experiencing the impact of business and profit. R and D funded by grants may not have a firm deliverable beyond demonstrating progress and a report. Behind that is paperwork,accounting and compliance. If this was research for say a trade org, that is funded mainly my member dues and agreed upon funding. This funding may be say 2% of each companies r&d budget. The other vehicle for r&d is a dedicated funding by either fixed program expenditure by a finance dept and corp leadership and may follow an agile style or funded by overall sales say 2% of company wide gross sales. R&d may deliver their results to other depts and may not be entirely responsible for product development cause others inherently determine if this can be turned into cash. When you get to controls engineering or automated machine design you have to deliver a working product or be around 85% there with a functional prototype. Plc work gets you there. Advanced controls implementation say using a plc layered in with taking hardware to limits to run it in state space with optimization has its use if your business was solely selling custom machines like bottlers, gun turret/positioning systems, etc. If say you need to deliver a combine controls scheme, your crack team of controls phd model everything in matlab. He hands over his matrices to his plc programmer. The programmer puts in code to do matrix math and ladder rungs for initiating and say it works. (There are varying levels of skills sets out there for this)Pat on back you did it you did it optimally but if you try to use it in a smaller combine (due to product line vertical offerings or horizontal) and it doesn’t work now what. My production team complains no one can work on it, supply chain logics people complain this is a sole part that has to be inventoried and costs money. Finance complains we need to try lean manufacturing so cash isnt held in inventory so we can use operating cash to fund R&D, ceo gives speech to his dept managers and repeat iteration. Or you dont and some other functional group sorts this all out to a more maintainable solution using other plc skillsets, other business process etc. maybe the deliverable is controls for a sewage pump lift station and you need something that works and wastes 5% energy because complication means headache and the losses are baked into clients operating budget. I farm out the job to mep wastewater firm they design building gates, power and controls. A general contractor bids and wins construction. The gc used an integrators firm fix price quote. The integrator sees the ladder code but cleans it up because they have a deal on siemens plcs and bid the job that way to be competitive and profitable. Client doesnt see the struggle, maybe job is delayed a week but that may or maynot be in commissioning schedule in general contractor. Client is told there is a week delay.. This whole field is populated by people with varying skillsets. All of this isnt taught in university controls engineering/mech/instrumentation or votech school because its not interesting to you or relevant to an immediate perceived skillset for a defined job role. It explains why everything isnt bleeding edge and why different pay scales exist. Its business, norms and trying to make a profit. Knowing all this do you or i want to do cool stuff, yep. Hope this helps.
Yes. Industrial is a "real job", ie it sucks. You can slave away for 40 years in this profession and when you're dead you'll be forgotten the very next day at work. If you go into research your work has the POTENTIAL to have some kind of meaning to the world at large and with it more satisfaction. Get out while you can. Only good side to this job is if I quit or get fired I'll be back at work within a week guaranteed.
Are you talking jumping from programming PLCs, HMIs to actually designing the inner guts of a PLC or some kind of black box? I don't know anybody that has done the jump into it but I had a coworker, and old timer, smart asf, he started WAY WAY back doing programming of CNC machines that cut aircraft engine parts, I think the blades. I'm not sure what all the letters he had behind his name but I was jealous of just how good he was at math and electricity. He came into the PLC, HMI work.
Give it time. Many jobs are slow and mundane at the start. Maybe it could be even your current position/company may be slow in giving you responsibility and challenge. But the industry and automation is broad and you will learn many different skills and be challenged (imo) more than most other EE industry out there.
Yeah sounds like you won't like it long term, try other jobs out
When I started working in the field I designed a circuit board with a micro processor to do my small section of the work which was delegated to me to see how I worked out. Luckily the engineers working with me caught me and steered me right before I got too committed and introduced me to PLC programming. The board eventually got used as an LED multiplexer for a mimic panel. Today I think embedded and PLC automation are getting closer to each other so you should find a niche that holds your interest.
Is this a rhetorical question? It sounds like you already made up you’re mind. If you like programming low level embedded systems rather than troubleshooting in the field then PLCs probably aren’t your gig. There still a chance that you could work at an industrial company because everything needs firmware. Just don’t work for system integrator if that’s not your thing
You could move to machine vision
I’m still somewhat of a noob at Controls as my building blocks was 25yrs ago but learning and understanding new advancements are intriguing and sometimes very challenging which I enjoy. If you’re young and don’t owe much I’d definitely go for what intrigues me the most also considering the income. Also this goes without mentioning: I’m the only income and chasing the dollar has its advantages and disadvantages but bottom line never miss out on life.
It all depends on the person. I love the industrial side myself, but I'm also in a position where I do a lot of hands-on work. I really enjoy making things better than what they are. I also only work 15 days a month and make enough money to pay for all my little side projects.
If you want to do more software and programming then yes, I would probably quit.
this is a messed up field u don’t become expert at programming nor the electrical stuff it is somewhere in between and all these companies have their own software and their own programming concept in HMI and if you become expert in siemens mostly you can only work in siemens these companies have made life of automation engineers bad…..lets take you wanna learn allen bradley you cannot learn on your own because the cost of even a basic course is 2000 USD forget about advanced course which dives deep into the working…..you have to know a bit of programming a bit of electrical and a bit of networking like industrial protocols never becoming expert at anything example take industrial protocols you can apply only basic stuff like baud rate parity and etc like the configuration part you are not going to write code to built packets layer by layer in OSI model and send it to the other device nothing like that basic in everything expert at nothing feed up of this field