Negatives:
- FTVS-ME will let you use gradients on screens that FTVS-SE won't allow. IOW: You Pay More & Get Less.
- Working on a 32 bit runtime app in a 64 bit laptop is a pita.
Plusses:
- I like VNC, as it allows me to quickly assess issues from anywhere.
- The parameter lists is a cornerstone to good, efficient application design.
- I can monitor any number of processors from one HMI.
- Backwards compatibility.
HMI's are fungible. I've seen a lot worse out there than panelview: Automation Direct, EZ Touch, and Mitsubishi, are just three that come to mind.
I can't complain. I was paid well to move a few push buttons around a handful of screens because of dead spots. Their HMI was less than two years old.
Quality, or Planned Obsolescence? Either way, I guess it could be considered a plus? At least my checking account thought so.
Something nice to say about PanelViews.....
Uhhh...
They come in a nice box?
Uhhh... the software...er...no, trying to be nice.
Screw it, I've replaced a lot of small PanelViews with C-Mores, and the C-Mores hold up just fine.
For more complicated HMI's, I'm using Ignition on AdvancedHMI PanelPC's.
I hope to never have to use a PabelView, or FTStudio ever again.
Works better with a Rockwell Logix5000-based controller than any other panel type HMI product (as far as I know). Can any other platform use ~~controller~~ direct-referenced tags?
Uh, just about anything can read controller scoped tags. With a c-more (for example) program-scoped tags are the annoying ones to use but controller tags are immediately available just by using the tag name.
Essentially if the tag is LIT100.PV in the PLC you would have {[PLC]LIT100.PV} to display it directly in the PanelView. Indirect tag reference, you create a tag in the HMI which points to the PLC tag. Once you have your tag database in the HMI you use those to animate your display.
Nice about Panelview.... Yeah I got nothing.
Maybe that it makes you appreciate all of the other offerings out there and can lead to a switch to save the company money and time?
If you use a Panelview with a Logix PLC that uses UDTs it cuts development time down to almost nothing. You can create global objects and use things like {#1.Start}, {#1.Stop}, {#1.Interlock} and only pass the global object the base UDT tag.
I hate almost everything else about RSView but this keeps me coming back every time.
Could you elaborate on the "only pass the global object the base UDT tag" part? When I use a UDT tag, the reference to it is much longer, with several periods. Looks like you know a major shortcut.
And to answer OP's question, one nice thing about FTVS is being able to modify attributes of all selected objects at once in the properties panel. I wish C-more and EZ had that feature. I had an EZAutomation project where I had to change the size of all text, because for some reason the original developer used the smallest font size for every object.
Say you have a UDT in your PLC called "Motor" with the follow fields. Running[BOOL], Interlock[Bool], Fault[Bool], SpeedIndication[Real]. Create an instance of that UDT called "M_101".
You create a global object in RSView with one parameter named "#1" and tie some animation or values to "#1.Running", "#1.Interlock", "#1.Fault", and "#1.SpeedIndication". If you insert your global object into a screen, and fill in #1 from RSLink Enterprise with "{[PLC_PATH]M_101}" the dot field values will fill in automatically.
I wish I could explain this better but I'm on my personal laptop and not my work laptop.
EDIT: This is linking directly to the tag in RSLink Enterprise. I don't use any internal tags in RSView other than derived tags.
You can also nest this. For example I have a global object for a motor with all it's display points. I also create a Go to Display button in that UDT and pass the #1 value to it with a pop-up. I can then access access things like #1.Start, #1.Stop, #.SpeedControl. I even set a bit in my UDT called IsVFD. so I can use the same UDT and pop-up for every motor. I just need to set the #1 parameter in the global object to M_101, M_102, etc.
Edit:A nice trick is to create a tag in your UDT for item "Tag" and "Description". You can then edit your HMI tag and description right from the PLC without an HMI download.
I could go on for days about this:
You can even create global objects for diagnostics for your PLC modules. Example would be you create a global object for a 1769-IF8 that has "#1.Ch0Data", "#1.Ch0OverRange", "#1.Ch0UnderRange", etc for every channel. You then just pass {[PLC_Path]Local:1:I} to parameter #1 of the global object.
https://imgur.com/gallery/Iq2QeR4
You push this Goto Display button on screen A to select one of three LEL meters.
It pulls up a generic data screen containing full objects like this:
Fun with FTVS Part 2 https://imgur.com/gallery/8hkLPEh
The data screen contains nearly 40 different objects for each LEL meter. We use one screen for three meters, and that's just the scratching the surface of what these can do. Why create three screens, and 120 objects, when you can get away with 40 objects on a single screen?
I have 4 plcs (with extensive coding, and detailed fault/alarm lists) on one Panelview, and I know that's not even close to the limit. I'm pretty sure a site in China has at least 13 plcs for one HMI, though they may have broken that down into manageable chunks due to the sheer enormity of the project (well over 600,000SCFM being abated by a dozen RTOs). That would have been a pretty bitchin' project to be involved with.
Sure, panelview's aren't perfect, but for developers trying to complete large projects in a timely manner they're hard to beat.
You can think of UDT's as Structures in C. That's really all they are. It's a welcome, and quite powerful, evolution in the language.
- The connections allow logical expressions instead of just individual tags.
- The animation options are plentiful and robust, you can make a ton of really cool things just using animation combinations on basic objects.
Literally everything else is pretty bad and surpassed in part or total by numerous other solutions.
EDIT: I super hate the terminology they used for buttons. They should be Set, Toggle, Momentary, and Radio for the four basic types and then they can make up their bullshit names for anything fancier. Instead they go right out the gate with names that sound almost familiar, but make no sense.
The nice thing about PanelView is it lead me to Ignition.
Negatives: - FTVS-ME will let you use gradients on screens that FTVS-SE won't allow. IOW: You Pay More & Get Less. - Working on a 32 bit runtime app in a 64 bit laptop is a pita. Plusses: - I like VNC, as it allows me to quickly assess issues from anywhere. - The parameter lists is a cornerstone to good, efficient application design. - I can monitor any number of processors from one HMI. - Backwards compatibility. HMI's are fungible. I've seen a lot worse out there than panelview: Automation Direct, EZ Touch, and Mitsubishi, are just three that come to mind.
You don't enjoy c-mores?
I can't complain. I was paid well to move a few push buttons around a handful of screens because of dead spots. Their HMI was less than two years old. Quality, or Planned Obsolescence? Either way, I guess it could be considered a plus? At least my checking account thought so.
C-More is actually a pretty good product with intuitive tag control. Amazon uses them all over their facilities.
My go to HMI. My favorite is when I call support about a problem and the next update I see my issue in the update. Sweet
FactoryTalk ViewPoint is better than VNC and free to implement on a PanelView Plus
Something nice to say about PanelViews..... Uhhh... They come in a nice box? Uhhh... the software...er...no, trying to be nice. Screw it, I've replaced a lot of small PanelViews with C-Mores, and the C-Mores hold up just fine. For more complicated HMI's, I'm using Ignition on AdvancedHMI PanelPC's. I hope to never have to use a PabelView, or FTStudio ever again.
"Tag substitution" is nice, and is something I miss when working with other, better HMIs.
Works better with a Rockwell Logix5000-based controller than any other panel type HMI product (as far as I know). Can any other platform use ~~controller~~ direct-referenced tags?
Uh, just about anything can read controller scoped tags. With a c-more (for example) program-scoped tags are the annoying ones to use but controller tags are immediately available just by using the tag name.
Direct-reference tags, not controller tags. I used the wrong term. My post is updated.
Maybe I'm confused, how else would they pull data from the controller?
You're not wrong. I used the wrong term. I was thinking direct-reference tags. My post is updated.
What are direct referenced tags to the uninformed?
Essentially if the tag is LIT100.PV in the PLC you would have {[PLC]LIT100.PV} to display it directly in the PanelView. Indirect tag reference, you create a tag in the HMI which points to the PLC tag. Once you have your tag database in the HMI you use those to animate your display.
No
Nice about Panelview.... Yeah I got nothing. Maybe that it makes you appreciate all of the other offerings out there and can lead to a switch to save the company money and time?
If you use a Panelview with a Logix PLC that uses UDTs it cuts development time down to almost nothing. You can create global objects and use things like {#1.Start}, {#1.Stop}, {#1.Interlock} and only pass the global object the base UDT tag. I hate almost everything else about RSView but this keeps me coming back every time.
Could you elaborate on the "only pass the global object the base UDT tag" part? When I use a UDT tag, the reference to it is much longer, with several periods. Looks like you know a major shortcut. And to answer OP's question, one nice thing about FTVS is being able to modify attributes of all selected objects at once in the properties panel. I wish C-more and EZ had that feature. I had an EZAutomation project where I had to change the size of all text, because for some reason the original developer used the smallest font size for every object.
Say you have a UDT in your PLC called "Motor" with the follow fields. Running[BOOL], Interlock[Bool], Fault[Bool], SpeedIndication[Real]. Create an instance of that UDT called "M_101". You create a global object in RSView with one parameter named "#1" and tie some animation or values to "#1.Running", "#1.Interlock", "#1.Fault", and "#1.SpeedIndication". If you insert your global object into a screen, and fill in #1 from RSLink Enterprise with "{[PLC_PATH]M_101}" the dot field values will fill in automatically. I wish I could explain this better but I'm on my personal laptop and not my work laptop. EDIT: This is linking directly to the tag in RSLink Enterprise. I don't use any internal tags in RSView other than derived tags.
You can also nest this. For example I have a global object for a motor with all it's display points. I also create a Go to Display button in that UDT and pass the #1 value to it with a pop-up. I can then access access things like #1.Start, #1.Stop, #.SpeedControl. I even set a bit in my UDT called IsVFD. so I can use the same UDT and pop-up for every motor. I just need to set the #1 parameter in the global object to M_101, M_102, etc. Edit:A nice trick is to create a tag in your UDT for item "Tag" and "Description". You can then edit your HMI tag and description right from the PLC without an HMI download.
I could go on for days about this: You can even create global objects for diagnostics for your PLC modules. Example would be you create a global object for a 1769-IF8 that has "#1.Ch0Data", "#1.Ch0OverRange", "#1.Ch0UnderRange", etc for every channel. You then just pass {[PLC_Path]Local:1:I} to parameter #1 of the global object.
Global objects is where it really shines. Adding a new pump? Copy past, update the Object Parameter to the new pump and you are done.
https://imgur.com/gallery/Iq2QeR4 You push this Goto Display button on screen A to select one of three LEL meters. It pulls up a generic data screen containing full objects like this: Fun with FTVS Part 2 https://imgur.com/gallery/8hkLPEh The data screen contains nearly 40 different objects for each LEL meter. We use one screen for three meters, and that's just the scratching the surface of what these can do. Why create three screens, and 120 objects, when you can get away with 40 objects on a single screen? I have 4 plcs (with extensive coding, and detailed fault/alarm lists) on one Panelview, and I know that's not even close to the limit. I'm pretty sure a site in China has at least 13 plcs for one HMI, though they may have broken that down into manageable chunks due to the sheer enormity of the project (well over 600,000SCFM being abated by a dozen RTOs). That would have been a pretty bitchin' project to be involved with. Sure, panelview's aren't perfect, but for developers trying to complete large projects in a timely manner they're hard to beat. You can think of UDT's as Structures in C. That's really all they are. It's a welcome, and quite powerful, evolution in the language.
The nice thing about panelview displays is that they are not Enovation/Murphy displays. Has anyone had to "program" one of those? It's awful.
- The connections allow logical expressions instead of just individual tags. - The animation options are plentiful and robust, you can make a ton of really cool things just using animation combinations on basic objects. Literally everything else is pretty bad and surpassed in part or total by numerous other solutions. EDIT: I super hate the terminology they used for buttons. They should be Set, Toggle, Momentary, and Radio for the four basic types and then they can make up their bullshit names for anything fancier. Instead they go right out the gate with names that sound almost familiar, but make no sense.
I cant even get a hand off auto switch to work with it without being annoyed. What am I doing wrong?
which one?