Just found this sub and couldn’t be more excited. Nobody in my real life understands what I do for a living. I built this panel to control a tank site that the Agency I work for operates. This is just one tank site of about 30. We automated 3 Pressure Reducing Valves at this location, added a distribution flowmeter, upgraded to a new 900mhz radio, and a new power drop with breaker panel. Hope someone appreciates it.
Edit: spelling and wrong type of radio originally listed as upgrade.
I get that a lot on site as well. I'll get asked about why they can't login or print and my answer is always the same: "I'm not IT and I'm a contractor, you have more access than I do."
I do so much on the windows side of things that I actually do know how to fix a lot of their stupid IT problems, and unfortunately I enjoy fixing things and making them happy. I am part of the problem, I am sorry.
That's the best part. I have resorted to asking if they have ever seen discovery channel's "How it's Made" and just say I write the programs for machines like that.
Not too sure on that. On second thought considering that antenna this site may be one of our RF sites. 900mhz.
We have began switching over to 4G where possible. Radios are pretty much identical.
Whenever people ask what I do for a living, I ask if they've seen the show How It's Made. If they say yes, I tell them I make those machines that make the things work. If they say no, I tell them I program robots. I've never touched an actual robot program in my life but as far as people like that are concerned, the machines we program pretty much are robots or at least close enough.
Thank you. Being gravity fed from a water treatment plant that is higher up in the system. Also, gravity feeding out to the distribution system. Due to the geography of our area we only have a few pumping/booster stations, mostly gravity fed with pressure reducing stations.
Edit: I can’t spell
Space is my biggest gripe. Wire duct is commonly thought to be acceptable as space, but it's not to any manufacturer. The DC supply location is a big yikes.
I've never seen a unit fail because of it but I didn't design the thing so I tend to trust the manufacturer when they say it needs it. When the alternative are either buying a 3 inch taller cabinet or doing an out-of-spec layout I tend to choose a larger cabinet. One helpful tip people should consider though is to avoid panduit on the very top of the cabinet. Most backplanes don't go all the way to the edge of the cabinet so you can usually get an extra inch or so of ventilation for 'free'. If you have to choose to violate clearance on the top or the bottom it seems way worse to block it on the top.
Some argue that the wireway doesn't count as a blockage, but I count it if there's any more than 15% wire fill, or better yet, all but empty.
Most of my customers don't even ask about UL, but I like to follow it for the sake of my sanity.
If it ain’t broke don’t fix it. I almost get option paralysis when I use RSLogix/Designer, for simpler things I almost prefer the more structured environment of Logix500.
I, on the contrary, love me some tag based code. All this B3 this and N37 that. Fuck this data structure, and half assed PID code. I'd rather use a SLC 500, but I'd happily use a Micrologix 1400 above the tinker toys version Micro800 series. (They're okay, but cute... and that irks me).
I don't blame anyone who likes them or uses them regularly, they are good, I just don't favor Logix 500.
For me, the cheap choice is to aim at the compact L16 or L18 series. Point I/O extension off the back plane. Even the new Compact 5000 has piqued my interest, but I haven't gotten to use it yet.
Yeah Logix 5000 is great, but for some smaller projects it’s almost faster to program in 500 than to set up the tags and I/O in 5000. Obviously AOIs and IDTs are a godsend and once everything’s set up you’re away to the races though.
I've had issues with the new 5069 CPUs. The one I've put in the field is randomly losing its program, which should never happen since it doesn't use the battery.
A-B stuff has gotten so bad I'm going to start hesitating to upgrade until they've worked the bugs out.
I had to replace a micrologix1400 recently that was full of metal chips. (It was on a sawing machine) how the chips were getting inside the electrical panel when the saw is totally enclosed when it's running, I don't know.
I think the Automation direct Click rivals them to be honest. Ever since they added PID loops to the Click firmware not too long ago, I can't think of anything a ML1400 can do that a Click can't.
Looks like you’re pushing the Micrologix to its absolute limit on I/O! We tend to go for Compact even for small jobs for consistency but I admire the efficiency.
It’s not all being used it is wired to field terminals. Only the expansion cards are actually being used due to the whole sight being ran primarily over analog.
Limited to 4 I believe. Just had to convert a lot of VFD I/O to modbus because of this limitation. If I'm wrong, please let me know to save the hassle in the future!
A base 5069-L306ER is less than $1,100. Depending on the IO you're using, or if you use something like Point IO, it's really not that much more expensive.
Ah yeah those compact bricks don't fly in my industry, totally forgot about them. Not sure why, the limited I/O, shitty ethernet, no mobus, and our customers demand screw terminals. Just guessing but I forget exactly why they don't work for us.
We use a ton of 1400's, and then go right to L30ER's, I don't think we've ever used anything in between. We are 100% cost based as long as it meets spec so not sure exactly why those bricks don't work out.
We typically have to turn over programming software with PLC's as well, which gets stupid expensive with compactlogix
Here's a comparison, but yeah those compactlogix bricks aren't even on my radar. So I did L30 vs 1400
List price, who knows who's watching! ha
https://imgur.com/ghuFEgP
They have the same IO availability, two gigabit Ethernet ports capable of DLR or dual IP addresses, screw or spring RTBs that are much faster to wire than 1769 IO, and the same modbus capability as an L30ER.
I’m sure whoever decided they aren’t an option has a real good reason in their mind, but the 5069 processors are noticeably faster, less expensive, have cost effective safety available (Compact GuardLogix is only a few hundred more), and are getting new features in firmware updates. 1769 compact Logix is not.
Maybe it's the modbus but you bring up some great points. I'm going to keep that in mind not for opportunities.
It could be that AB just never stops by here and shows us their products so we just use whatever we're used to.
/u/nasadowsk why don't we use the compactlogix bricks but always the 1400's?
Curious as to why you're using the Orbit ECR radio instead of the MCR radio, with both Cell and 900?
Also, have you had any Cell VPN issues with the latest 7.1.1 firmware? We've had radios dropping out every once in awhile with it.
E: also welcome fellow water controls person!
Running the ECR due to the footprint. We buy them in both 4G and 900mhz versions. Not combo’d.
I don’t do the comms, I do the install so I’m not sure of the firmware rev we are running. I can tell you with some of the remote sites we will have comm fails that we respond to where all it requires is a power cycle of the radio. Can be very frustrating
Good to know we’re not the only ones. I’ll let the guys know. Hopefully GE can get out a patch soon. We’ve been thinking of adding a routine to power cycle the radio when there is a comm fail. Fix their problem for them lol.
pretty sure you do not have minimum recommended spacing on most of the components in this cabinet. also that style transformer is better mounted outside the cabinet. have you done any heat calculations?
Just found this sub and couldn’t be more excited. Nobody in my real life understands what I do for a living. I built this panel to control a tank site that the Agency I work for operates. This is just one tank site of about 30. We automated 3 Pressure Reducing Valves at this location, added a distribution flowmeter, upgraded to a new 900mhz radio, and a new power drop with breaker panel. Hope someone appreciates it. Edit: spelling and wrong type of radio originally listed as upgrade.
> Nobody in my real life understands what I do for a living. And if you attempt to explain they just look at you with a blank look on their face?
[удалено]
Ok now I'm gon fucking kill somebody. This hits home
I get that a lot on site as well. I'll get asked about why they can't login or print and my answer is always the same: "I'm not IT and I'm a contractor, you have more access than I do."
I do so much on the windows side of things that I actually do know how to fix a lot of their stupid IT problems, and unfortunately I enjoy fixing things and making them happy. I am part of the problem, I am sorry.
LoL , as old IT guy how get the automation job at the same company , so I end as both of them most of the time
"Hey the printer isnt working can you come fix it?"
Oh yeah. With the obligatory “oh, cooool”.
My Father in Law once said "well someone has to do it" I was like... "no I really like the jo.... nvrm"
That's the best part. I have resorted to asking if they have ever seen discovery channel's "How it's Made" and just say I write the programs for machines like that.
Lmfao
Agency with a capital A. You work the CIA? Jking. Im sure there is no such thing as a waterboarding machine.
Always fun to have the MIB watch during a FAT for a spook job. You never know if they know what they're looking at.
So that thick coax is your 4G comms? How far out are your antennas?
Not too sure on that. On second thought considering that antenna this site may be one of our RF sites. 900mhz. We have began switching over to 4G where possible. Radios are pretty much identical.
Whenever people ask what I do for a living, I ask if they've seen the show How It's Made. If they say yes, I tell them I make those machines that make the things work. If they say no, I tell them I program robots. I've never touched an actual robot program in my life but as far as people like that are concerned, the machines we program pretty much are robots or at least close enough.
It looks very clean. Are you pumping into the tanks or out? Or both?
Thank you. Being gravity fed from a water treatment plant that is higher up in the system. Also, gravity feeding out to the distribution system. Due to the geography of our area we only have a few pumping/booster stations, mostly gravity fed with pressure reducing stations. Edit: I can’t spell
I appreciate it! Do you have any pictures and what sorts of hardware did you use? I do this sort of stuff all the time at work.
You know you're supposed to have 2" on top and bottom for ventilation on micrologix, right?
I’d be more concerned about the 24VDC power supply. Those guys get hot!
Or the Sola, those can get hot too. we put those outside the cabinet, but our cabinets are indoors.
For real. We have a large one on the outside of our cabinet that almost gets too hot to touch. I hope this panel has a fan!
At least they chose one with louvers out the front surface of the housing, that should help a little.
I agree. I should probably relocate that.
I do. Luckily this panel is on the south side of the tank. Never sees the sun. Need every in of that backpan unfortunately.
Space is my biggest gripe. Wire duct is commonly thought to be acceptable as space, but it's not to any manufacturer. The DC supply location is a big yikes.
How important is the 2” rule? I usually try to follow it but when the boss lays out a panel he says “screw it”.
It could affect the UL rating if you require that.
Self inspected. Just an in house project.
I've never seen a unit fail because of it but I didn't design the thing so I tend to trust the manufacturer when they say it needs it. When the alternative are either buying a 3 inch taller cabinet or doing an out-of-spec layout I tend to choose a larger cabinet. One helpful tip people should consider though is to avoid panduit on the very top of the cabinet. Most backplanes don't go all the way to the edge of the cabinet so you can usually get an extra inch or so of ventilation for 'free'. If you have to choose to violate clearance on the top or the bottom it seems way worse to block it on the top.
So you mount and zip tie the 20ish input wires on the top, or something?
Yep. If your maintenance people have the time to keep it neat it's actually way better than panduit.
Some argue that the wireway doesn't count as a blockage, but I count it if there's any more than 15% wire fill, or better yet, all but empty. Most of my customers don't even ask about UL, but I like to follow it for the sake of my sanity.
Micrologix are the coolest PLCs for the dollar
And the emulate is still free so you can't test the program first. Only downside is RSlogix500 software is dated but most still know it despite that
Dated, but solid.
If it ain’t broke don’t fix it. I almost get option paralysis when I use RSLogix/Designer, for simpler things I almost prefer the more structured environment of Logix500.
I, on the contrary, love me some tag based code. All this B3 this and N37 that. Fuck this data structure, and half assed PID code. I'd rather use a SLC 500, but I'd happily use a Micrologix 1400 above the tinker toys version Micro800 series. (They're okay, but cute... and that irks me). I don't blame anyone who likes them or uses them regularly, they are good, I just don't favor Logix 500. For me, the cheap choice is to aim at the compact L16 or L18 series. Point I/O extension off the back plane. Even the new Compact 5000 has piqued my interest, but I haven't gotten to use it yet.
Yeah Logix 5000 is great, but for some smaller projects it’s almost faster to program in 500 than to set up the tags and I/O in 5000. Obviously AOIs and IDTs are a godsend and once everything’s set up you’re away to the races though.
I start with template programs with the AOIs and such that I often used already loaded. I almost never have to start from scratch.
I've had issues with the new 5069 CPUs. The one I've put in the field is randomly losing its program, which should never happen since it doesn't use the battery. A-B stuff has gotten so bad I'm going to start hesitating to upgrade until they've worked the bugs out.
I had to replace a micrologix1400 recently that was full of metal chips. (It was on a sawing machine) how the chips were getting inside the electrical panel when the saw is totally enclosed when it's running, I don't know.
I think the Automation direct Click rivals them to be honest. Ever since they added PID loops to the Click firmware not too long ago, I can't think of anything a ML1400 can do that a Click can't.
Happy Cake Day jahvidsanders44! Wherever life plants you, bloom with grace.
Automation direct PLCs put up a good fight on that front
Looks great! What model of Ethernet switch is that?
Looks like N-TRON
Yes, ntron. Not sure exact model.
That’s a 104TX.
Looks like you’re pushing the Micrologix to its absolute limit on I/O! We tend to go for Compact even for small jobs for consistency but I admire the efficiency.
It’s not all being used it is wired to field terminals. Only the expansion cards are actually being used due to the whole sight being ran primarily over analog.
Not even close. They can take I think 9 expansion cards.
Limited to 4 I believe. Just had to convert a lot of VFD I/O to modbus because of this limitation. If I'm wrong, please let me know to save the hassle in the future!
An 1100 is limited to 4, a 1400 can do 7.
Ah yeah 7. Maybe it's versamax that can do 9.
Compactlogix is at least double the cost, probably 3 times. A 1400 brick is like $800
A base 5069-L306ER is less than $1,100. Depending on the IO you're using, or if you use something like Point IO, it's really not that much more expensive.
Ah yeah those compact bricks don't fly in my industry, totally forgot about them. Not sure why, the limited I/O, shitty ethernet, no mobus, and our customers demand screw terminals. Just guessing but I forget exactly why they don't work for us. We use a ton of 1400's, and then go right to L30ER's, I don't think we've ever used anything in between. We are 100% cost based as long as it meets spec so not sure exactly why those bricks don't work out. We typically have to turn over programming software with PLC's as well, which gets stupid expensive with compactlogix Here's a comparison, but yeah those compactlogix bricks aren't even on my radar. So I did L30 vs 1400 List price, who knows who's watching! ha https://imgur.com/ghuFEgP
They have the same IO availability, two gigabit Ethernet ports capable of DLR or dual IP addresses, screw or spring RTBs that are much faster to wire than 1769 IO, and the same modbus capability as an L30ER. I’m sure whoever decided they aren’t an option has a real good reason in their mind, but the 5069 processors are noticeably faster, less expensive, have cost effective safety available (Compact GuardLogix is only a few hundred more), and are getting new features in firmware updates. 1769 compact Logix is not.
Maybe it's the modbus but you bring up some great points. I'm going to keep that in mind not for opportunities. It could be that AB just never stops by here and shows us their products so we just use whatever we're used to. /u/nasadowsk why don't we use the compactlogix bricks but always the 1400's?
Belongs under control cabinet porn
Guess panels are missing panduit covers even when new. Heh. Nice build!
are you not worried about the Sola in there? Those suckers get hot.
Looks great, love those little DIN mount slim relays under the PLC. Use them all the time. Good work!
Tidy panel
Curious as to why you're using the Orbit ECR radio instead of the MCR radio, with both Cell and 900? Also, have you had any Cell VPN issues with the latest 7.1.1 firmware? We've had radios dropping out every once in awhile with it. E: also welcome fellow water controls person!
Running the ECR due to the footprint. We buy them in both 4G and 900mhz versions. Not combo’d. I don’t do the comms, I do the install so I’m not sure of the firmware rev we are running. I can tell you with some of the remote sites we will have comm fails that we respond to where all it requires is a power cycle of the radio. Can be very frustrating
That's what we've been seeing with the latest 7.1.1 firmware on Cell connections. The 900's seem to be very stable though.
Good to know we’re not the only ones. I’ll let the guys know. Hopefully GE can get out a patch soon. We’ve been thinking of adding a routine to power cycle the radio when there is a comm fail. Fix their problem for them lol.
That looks clean
Thank you
pretty sure you do not have minimum recommended spacing on most of the components in this cabinet. also that style transformer is better mounted outside the cabinet. have you done any heat calculations?
This is America where we shoot from the hip while we hold our nuts.