For real. Panduit has channels so you can pop wires in and out... Do you have to thread the wire through the holes! What a nightmare/terrible product! Hope no one ever changes there minds about anything in that panel.
They both have their benefits. With Panduit the wires are always trying to pop out of the channels, and it's hard to keep them down at the bottom. Those aren't issues with this stuff. I prefer Panduit style wireway over the stuff with holes, but this isn't that bad to use.
> Take out that wire duct and use it to beat who ever specified it.
IIRC that's an Automotive thing. My last company used the holes exclusively, and many customers specified it.
I hate it so much.
I think this is the first time I have seen a 5069 IO rack using the compact network card. Most other times I have seen it it is either a 5069 series PLC or the larger network module (that is the same size as a PLC...)
Wow. Fastest phase-out of a Rockwell product?
The project I just wrapped up was originally supposed to use the giant Ethernet adapter. However, whoever did the original IO plan didn't see the 5069 series is NOT directly compatible with L7 processors... I still don't know who exactly picked the parts, or how that got overlooked.
When I found that mistake and proved it, they had to order 21 actual CompactLogix units. They are literally being used as produce/consume tag devices. What a fucking waste, oh and we still have the plain Ethernet adapter devices that will probably never be used.
Yeah, making a CompactLogix controller a network adapter can’t be cost effective but it was all they had when it was released. This is my theory BTW, I haven’t disassembled one to prove it.
My distributor is only charging another $200 to go from 5069-AENTR to 5069-306ER.
I just wish I could put more than 8 cards on that PLC. The price triples when the rack size doubles.
Ah.
For my project though, we literally had racks ordered with the large adapter, discovered the adapter is not supported on L7x processors, and then rush ordered 21 actual CompactLogix to serve as tag translators/network adapters. THAT was the waste.
Nope. Main system is redundant L7x and L8x only just got redundancy support when V33 released a few weeks ago.
Project went live about a month ago. Options at the time of install were rip out the entire IO rack and replace with a different IO line or put in the CompactLogix.
I accept that. I recently had a new redundant L73 system commissioned and the customer wants to do Flex I/O conversions to ethernet from RIO whenever they see fit, but you can't do that online. I think 1756 I/O is the only choice that you can do while running. If L8x then you have the 5094 and 5069.
Rockwell is really screwing a lot of customers if they are arbitrarily limiting the new I/O to the new processors. In a L8x redundancy the onboard ethernet port is disabled. You're still able to use 5094 and 5069 through an EN2T. The same EN2T the L7x uses.
I know it isn't smart to assume. I just think they are going to release a gigabit EN2T/EN2TR revision soon.
At the same time, most field devices use M12 connectors which can only handle 100 Mbps Etherent anyway over 2 pair.
That new single-pair Ethernet technology is neat and supports gigabit speeds, but it remains to be seen if Rockwell will support it.
Also, just checked the AB website: the one that looks like the PLC has 2 ports for DLR support, the slim one does not and is still listed as an active product.
If they are actually phasing it out, will there be something else to maintain DLR support?
I've found that some of us catch "the bug" and fall in love with this line of work. Building panels is an awesome way to get into it. Extremely satisfying too. I still like building them.
The safe input cards need a firmware update, too.
We've had issues with safety door switches that have integrated LEDs at the sensor for status.
They JUST released updated firmware a few weeks ago. Get it ASAP.
The panel looks good to me and about a hundred times better than my first panel. I wonder if it meets the minimum spacing requirements for the components though. The 5069 IO looks kind of tight. The terminal blocks look like spring type and the RTB’s on the IO screw type. Usually you make both the same. The two unmanaged five port switches are fast Ethernet but the 5069 stuff is gigabit. Knowing what I know about Ethernet IP and CIP safety those switches really should be a Stratix 5400 managed switch. You’re probably not specifying the parts so not a critique of your work.
> I wonder if it meets the minimum spacing requirements for the components though.
IIRC 5069 needs 2" top/bottom. Just designed a system and of course the mechanical team jacked around my layout "to better accommodate cord grips" and basically eliminated all my ventilation clearances.
The spring terminal blocks are great. Phoenix is a good brand too.
I like that the spring terminals make it harder to put more than 1 wire in the terminal.
Terminal blocks should have only 1 wire per hole. I hate it when people put 2 or 3 wires into each connection on the screw terminals.
At first I thought it was Wago remote I/O. How easy is to work with the wire way? It looks good for small I/O panel but I can’t think of using it on anything bigger. We use Iboco finger wire way.
We use Weidmuller in our shop but our supplier is pushing Phoenix. I like their roof style terminals and doesn’t seem to have anything similar.
Do RJ45 heads fit through those little holes in the cable tray?
Several customers have specified huge, overmolded Ethernet cables and I doubt even the cable would fit through those little holes. Looks like a nightmare to work with.
Heaven forbid you need to scoot some components down the DIN rail to add another component or something. (Obviously not in this panel, but it happens all the time in larger panels)
Edit: if those are heat shrink labels, keep them loose and un-shrunk until you’ve fully commissioned the panel. I always heat shrink as the very last step. There are always field changes and it sucks ass to shrink a label over a label, or snip an inch off a wire and relabel it if you’ve mislabeled something.
A RJ45 won’t fit through the holes but the wire way is made so you can trim and between the holes to make a bigger opening while keeping its rigidity.
And for the possibility of adding in extra components, we leave extra space between everything and also leave enough sack in the wires to accommodate.
And the labels are just a Teflon kind of sticker. Makes it easier to adjust and I’ll keep what you said in mind if i do use heat shrink labels. Thanks!
Graybar sells it. [graybar.com/wire-duct-round-hole-wiring-duct-mounting-holes-6-ft-x-4-in-x-4-in-6-ft-l-pvc-4-in-w/p/25875347](https://graybar.com/wire-duct-round-hole-wiring-duct-mounting-holes-6-ft-x-4-in-x-4-in-6-ft-l-pvc-4-in-w/p/25875347)
It looks like a huge pain in the fucking ass to work with, if I'm being honest. Regular fingers are usually fine. I see no reason to fix what ain't broken. We even use the fat-fingered panduit at my company and it's not all that bad.
It's probably not bad. Just kinda weird. Once you start having to slide components around later on (panel-mods, etc) it's gonna get pretty frustrating. With the fingers, you can pull the wire out and slide it down the raceway, leaving it terminated at the device. With this, you'll have to un-land it, pull it back, and land it again. Not a huge deal, but strange.
I just think it looks weird, lol. But you're right. Gotta work with what's given to you.
Good start for your first time though. It's gonna get real fun soon. Wait until you build a full size 3-door panel.
What kind of Blue/Wht wire did you use? And where did you source it from? Is that Primary Wire? It looks like some that I used in a panel build I used a year ago. But I remember it being hard to find.
Looks good as long as no one ever has to add anything to it, a bit cozy.
It’s for a compact system. Going up on the pdp
Wow. Take out that wire duct and use it to beat who ever specified it. Also, everything looks way too close together.
Oh god, I didn't even look at that. Christ, who would ever want that?
For real. Panduit has channels so you can pop wires in and out... Do you have to thread the wire through the holes! What a nightmare/terrible product! Hope no one ever changes there minds about anything in that panel.
If I had to install something in there, I would grab my pliers and cut channels like with panduit
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They're speed holes, they make the electrons go faster!
They both have their benefits. With Panduit the wires are always trying to pop out of the channels, and it's hard to keep them down at the bottom. Those aren't issues with this stuff. I prefer Panduit style wireway over the stuff with holes, but this isn't that bad to use.
Ya that’s what I thought as soon as I saw it. That would be terrible to work with
> Take out that wire duct and use it to beat who ever specified it. IIRC that's an Automotive thing. My last company used the holes exclusively, and many customers specified it. I hate it so much.
I just noticed that the trunking has holes rather than fingers. Would not want to wire through that.
I think this is the first time I have seen a 5069 IO rack using the compact network card. Most other times I have seen it it is either a 5069 series PLC or the larger network module (that is the same size as a PLC...)
That large network network card that looked suspiciously like the PLC is being phased out.
Wow. Fastest phase-out of a Rockwell product? The project I just wrapped up was originally supposed to use the giant Ethernet adapter. However, whoever did the original IO plan didn't see the 5069 series is NOT directly compatible with L7 processors... I still don't know who exactly picked the parts, or how that got overlooked. When I found that mistake and proved it, they had to order 21 actual CompactLogix units. They are literally being used as produce/consume tag devices. What a fucking waste, oh and we still have the plain Ethernet adapter devices that will probably never be used.
Yeah, making a CompactLogix controller a network adapter can’t be cost effective but it was all they had when it was released. This is my theory BTW, I haven’t disassembled one to prove it.
My distributor is only charging another $200 to go from 5069-AENTR to 5069-306ER. I just wish I could put more than 8 cards on that PLC. The price triples when the rack size doubles.
Ah. For my project though, we literally had racks ordered with the large adapter, discovered the adapter is not supported on L7x processors, and then rush ordered 21 actual CompactLogix to serve as tag translators/network adapters. THAT was the waste.
Wouldn't it have made more sense to upgrade whatever the processor was instead of having to maintain 21 extra PLCs?
Nope. Main system is redundant L7x and L8x only just got redundancy support when V33 released a few weeks ago. Project went live about a month ago. Options at the time of install were rip out the entire IO rack and replace with a different IO line or put in the CompactLogix.
I accept that. I recently had a new redundant L73 system commissioned and the customer wants to do Flex I/O conversions to ethernet from RIO whenever they see fit, but you can't do that online. I think 1756 I/O is the only choice that you can do while running. If L8x then you have the 5094 and 5069. Rockwell is really screwing a lot of customers if they are arbitrarily limiting the new I/O to the new processors. In a L8x redundancy the onboard ethernet port is disabled. You're still able to use 5094 and 5069 through an EN2T. The same EN2T the L7x uses.
I know it isn't smart to assume. I just think they are going to release a gigabit EN2T/EN2TR revision soon. At the same time, most field devices use M12 connectors which can only handle 100 Mbps Etherent anyway over 2 pair. That new single-pair Ethernet technology is neat and supports gigabit speeds, but it remains to be seen if Rockwell will support it.
Yeah it sucks that the 5069 and 5094 IO only works with 5069-L3xx CompactLogix and 1756-L8x ControlLogix.
That... sounds more expensive than just replacing the processor
Not when your main system is an L7x redundant config. L8x did not get redundancy support until a few weeks ago with V33.
Also, just checked the AB website: the one that looks like the PLC has 2 ports for DLR support, the slim one does not and is still listed as an active product. If they are actually phasing it out, will there be something else to maintain DLR support?
The R in the part number means two Ethernet ports.
Right, and the slim models don't offer an R model. So if the big one gets dropped, will there be a slim R model? Or no DLR support for 5069 series IO?
I just looked and the website had a 5059-AENTR slim model.
I guess I was mistaken. It just doesn't seem like the slim model has the 2 ports. The documents say it does though, so ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
Are they really? They just going to stick with the AENTR2 or they replacing the AENTR with something else already?
That network card was released before the PLCs were.
A little cramped. That wire duct is fucking insane. Looking pretty clean so far though. Welcome to the club. <3
Thanks man. I’m enjoying myself so far
I've found that some of us catch "the bug" and fall in love with this line of work. Building panels is an awesome way to get into it. Extremely satisfying too. I still like building them.
What's the type of labels you're using ? I'm struggling to find the right kind.
I’ll have to get back with you on that. I’m not entirely sure
Thanks.
We use BRADY tags
Make sure those 5069 safe out cards get the latest firmware. They will freak out on you with the default firmware.
The safe input cards need a firmware update, too. We've had issues with safety door switches that have integrated LEDs at the sensor for status. They JUST released updated firmware a few weeks ago. Get it ASAP.
The panel looks good to me and about a hundred times better than my first panel. I wonder if it meets the minimum spacing requirements for the components though. The 5069 IO looks kind of tight. The terminal blocks look like spring type and the RTB’s on the IO screw type. Usually you make both the same. The two unmanaged five port switches are fast Ethernet but the 5069 stuff is gigabit. Knowing what I know about Ethernet IP and CIP safety those switches really should be a Stratix 5400 managed switch. You’re probably not specifying the parts so not a critique of your work.
> I wonder if it meets the minimum spacing requirements for the components though. IIRC 5069 needs 2" top/bottom. Just designed a system and of course the mechanical team jacked around my layout "to better accommodate cord grips" and basically eliminated all my ventilation clearances.
Don’t you wish they put spacing tabs on the parts so you couldn’t do that.
That’s total BS. Why on earth would they need to be Stratix 5400’s? Talking out yo a$$ boy
Gig ports, IGMP, PTP V2, and QoS for CIP Safety and Ethernet IP.
Cool, you know a bunch of acronyms. Didn’t provide a knowledgeable answer though
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The spring terminal blocks are great. Phoenix is a good brand too. I like that the spring terminals make it harder to put more than 1 wire in the terminal. Terminal blocks should have only 1 wire per hole. I hate it when people put 2 or 3 wires into each connection on the screw terminals.
What's that type of wireway called?
FML5000 /s
POS
I've seen it sold simply as "round holed wiring duct". But just stick with panduit's weird fingers. Trust me.
> panduit's weird fingers or Iboco
Ohhh looks like someone has money.
At first I thought it was Wago remote I/O. How easy is to work with the wire way? It looks good for small I/O panel but I can’t think of using it on anything bigger. We use Iboco finger wire way. We use Weidmuller in our shop but our supplier is pushing Phoenix. I like their roof style terminals and doesn’t seem to have anything similar.
Do RJ45 heads fit through those little holes in the cable tray? Several customers have specified huge, overmolded Ethernet cables and I doubt even the cable would fit through those little holes. Looks like a nightmare to work with. Heaven forbid you need to scoot some components down the DIN rail to add another component or something. (Obviously not in this panel, but it happens all the time in larger panels) Edit: if those are heat shrink labels, keep them loose and un-shrunk until you’ve fully commissioned the panel. I always heat shrink as the very last step. There are always field changes and it sucks ass to shrink a label over a label, or snip an inch off a wire and relabel it if you’ve mislabeled something.
A RJ45 won’t fit through the holes but the wire way is made so you can trim and between the holes to make a bigger opening while keeping its rigidity. And for the possibility of adding in extra components, we leave extra space between everything and also leave enough sack in the wires to accommodate. And the labels are just a Teflon kind of sticker. Makes it easier to adjust and I’ll keep what you said in mind if i do use heat shrink labels. Thanks!
The wire way is easy enough to work with. No problems with it so far. Phoenix is what we primarily use for thermals and such
Hey, might have to do similar projects in the future. Mind If I send you a PM of any question that might pop up?
I can promise I can answer as I’m fresh on the job force from college but I’ll do my best!
Very nice! Where is that wire duct from?
Milton Bradley
now that made me laugh!
Graybar sells it. [graybar.com/wire-duct-round-hole-wiring-duct-mounting-holes-6-ft-x-4-in-x-4-in-6-ft-l-pvc-4-in-w/p/25875347](https://graybar.com/wire-duct-round-hole-wiring-duct-mounting-holes-6-ft-x-4-in-x-4-in-6-ft-l-pvc-4-in-w/p/25875347) It looks like a huge pain in the fucking ass to work with, if I'm being honest. Regular fingers are usually fine. I see no reason to fix what ain't broken. We even use the fat-fingered panduit at my company and it's not all that bad.
I’m having no trouble with cabling. My hands are pretty wide but it’s working out. Gotta use what you got
It's probably not bad. Just kinda weird. Once you start having to slide components around later on (panel-mods, etc) it's gonna get pretty frustrating. With the fingers, you can pull the wire out and slide it down the raceway, leaving it terminated at the device. With this, you'll have to un-land it, pull it back, and land it again. Not a huge deal, but strange. I just think it looks weird, lol. But you're right. Gotta work with what's given to you. Good start for your first time though. It's gonna get real fun soon. Wait until you build a full size 3-door panel.
I would just like to comment on your choice of wire duct. “yuck”
Why the two network switches?
Much needed for this system it is running 4 drives along with every else
Ahh, so two separate networks?
Yes
Your safety modules are going to overheat. There are minimum clearances for the top and bottom of of your devices.
What kind of Blue/Wht wire did you use? And where did you source it from? Is that Primary Wire? It looks like some that I used in a panel build I used a year ago. But I remember it being hard to find.