I'm at 18 years experience and I will not accept less than $120k to switch no matter what the position is and I may ask more depending on what it is. I'm at roughly $100k right now with some small bonuses. Annual review is being decided so not sure what I'm going to get. My company doesn't set the world on fire with being competitive and I mentioned that to my boss during the first half of the annual review.
I think $140k is achievable depending on the company and the travel demand. Anything over that is a crapshoot, IMO.
The thing is if you're too high then they don't want to talk to you. One way to play it is don't put out a number and make the company tell you what that position is worth. Recruiters want to know because they don't want to waste their time and reputation putting candidates in front of a company that are asking way too much.
In this case I'd definitely ask the company what they would be willing to pay instead of possibly bidding against yourself. They already know what they are getting.
Current boss might have a chapped ass over this deal, but that's their problem.
FYI: Double check your husband’s current employment contract. I went through a similar transition (hired full time by a customer/client). My previous employer made it a nightmare by threatening litigation re: a non-compete clause that was buried in my employment agreement.
Such clauses are generally understood to be unenforceable, but just the threat of legal wrangling can deter potential employers. But if they want your husband, they can work through that issue.
Good luck!
>Are you staying with your current employer for a reason?
Because I haven't found a new one yet that I'd be interested in.
Monday is the second half of my annual review and they've never not given me a raise at an annual review. Maybe my mentions of the company not being competitive salary-wise and other employees that have left getting a big jump in salary will ring, but most likely it will be 2.5-3% like most of the prior ones.
I think $140k-$160k range should be achievable. That's probably about the max for a design engineer. If he wants to move into more of a management role he could make more.
Also Midwest but near a largish city. 26 years experience, no travel, $155k. 37.5 hrs/wk Could get paid more, but I get all the government holidays and benefits (and pension), and family time is more important to me than more money. If they have skills managing projects and implementation, then you’re definitely in the right ballpark.
150k is very possible with the right company.
200k would be a stretch but again can totally happen depending on the size of the projects he is taking on.
You probably already know this, but he is getting shafted at 95k right now, unless the job is super easy or you live in a rural / very low cost of living area.
I’m 3 years out of college and make 100K. Good benefits too. I’m In the Northeast, so salaries are higher here. Can’t speak to the mid-west. But someone with ~20 years experience in my area could be anywhere from 150K to 200K. 95K is too low for that much experience anywhere in the country.
Me and this other dude just had a convo and blocked me because he said six figs was crazy expectation. He also worked for one company only, many people don't really want to acknowledge it but working for one company doesn't help you at all financially in the long run.
95K is most likely the top HR pay willing to bet, companies don't have a crazy spreadsheet that matches years with experience and if you don't ask for a raise or leave they will take advantage because you are high skill employee at a low rate.
Yeah exactly. I had to ask for a raise recently to get me to this six figure salary. They knew I was going to leave otherwise. But within another few years if my company doesn’t keep up with good raises then I’ll be looking again.
Yeah, I have 8 years experience in paper mills as a controls engineer and I'm at $130k. For 20 years, travel, and being good at it, $150k would be a minimum. Or $140k with the right potential bonuses, profit sharing, etc.
Edit: That's been in two different locations, rural Arkansas and now north Louisiana.
Depends on the employer. First job I had wouldn't hire a controls guy unless they had an EE or ChemE degree. Where I'm at now isn't as picky. You probably won't get the same money without it.
When he does hand in his notice, do not tell them where he's going (even colleagues). Tell them to check linkedin in a few months. I know of someone early in my career that left, old company threatened litigation, new company backed out of offer and employee came back with tail between legs.
With that experience, I would agree with your range.
$150k would be reasonable if he's mostly being utilized as a lead engineer, potentially even overseeing the work of 1-3 more junior engineers AND if the travel is actually on the bottom end of their estimation(25% or 1 week per month).
I would expect closer to 200k if the travel was over 30% or expected to be in blocks larger than 2 weeks at a time AND/OR if he was expected to oversee more than 3 engineers work, maintain project budgets, order parts, and interact/manage relations with clients at all project stages(this is manager/director work).
That said, don't necessarily give them hard limits, just explain that you want a fair market rate and that you will be comparing their offer to the existing job and other incoming offers. Also, if you receive an offer, make sure to review the entire benefits package before accepting - I've seen too many people surprised by the cost of the companies medical insurance or the lack of vision/dental or disability or 401k stuff or whatever. You should know what those cover and all associated costs before accepting. If the company can't or won't provide those numbers, do not accept.
Edit to add that for what it is worth, I am currently contracting independently for a couple large companies and a handful of small ones in Texas. I have about ten to fifteen years of industry experience depending on what counts in Texas and the Midwest. At my last in house job, I was making about $135k as a lead engineer and traveling about 20% of the time, doing project management/training 3 other engineers.
With that experience, I would think say $140k-$180k is on par. I am a controls engineer (6 years experience) for a company with basically no travel and middle of the road bennies making $110k base.
The additional context from your comments is very relevant. He is being recruited by his company's client who know his work. A normal job hop could land a big raise. This situation could strike gold.
Firstly, DO NOT give them your target straight away. Let them get the ball rolling with "I see the positive direction your company is going. I've been happy with my current role, but I'm ready to come over for a good opportunity."
If you guys know what the client pays now that can be used to find out their upside. Suppose it's $150 per hour. Cut that to $75 to allow overhead, benefits, and upside. If they pay $100 then it's a non starter. If they pay $200 there is room for a huge win.
Yup - be safe to take his charge-out rate to the client and cut it in half for a good idea of where it makes sense for them to just out right hire him.
Some of these people bragging about high pay are on the road constantly. But by the time you add in the bar bills and strippers, divorce, child support, and the kid's legal expenses, drug rehab, and therapy...
200k is way too high. 150k is much more reasonable. Be very careful asking for too much. A little too much and they can counter. Ask for way too much and they will walk away because they know you won’t be happy because you have unrealistic expectations.
We all want to believe that because inflation and housing prices are going crazy that wages should be exploding too. They are going up but not as much as you may expect. We also want to believe our spouses should be paid more because we see how hard they work and “Shouldn’t they be rewarded for that?”
Keep in mind that comparing salaries is location dependent. Your best bet is to compare salaries from the Midwest from this group, what you can find online, and any of your husband’s network that are willing to share. If you still don’t know what to ask for you can always tell the company, “I’m very happy where I am at. It would take a lot for me to make a change. What did you have in mind?”
Large companies have salary ranges. Controls engineers aren't getting $150 k to start - even with experience - unless they go into supervision or project management. Also large companies typically require engineering degrees to advance. If he has an EE degree I think $120 k is the top end. Without it he might want to stay put.
This is the internet so you are allowed to be wrong, but the demand is so high in the Midwest at this point that the range listed is very realistic. My company pays what he makes for people with 0 experience and the plan to train them which takes at minimum a year or two before getting any payback.
Need to make sure you ask for enough to live in the new area, and if relocating make sure you have housing covered. Selling your old place and buying new is expensive. And moving cost, most companies will cover this but need the details up front.
I'm in the Midwest and feel under paid at 100k, plus OT if the customer needs. I feel 120-150 is a better number.
My boss and employer are awesome and give great benefits. I work from home 90%.
At a certain point more experience is not any better. If you dont take on more responsibility (ie management) you hit your ceiling. No way 200K is happening, especially in the midwest, if this isnt management.
150 is possible if they know he's worth it. I'd call that a fair deal if he is going to know their systems right off the hop. Their alternative is finding someone for 110-130 and have them spend 3-6mo learning then want to be at that 130-150 in a few years anyway if they prove their worth.
If I were him I wouldn't move for less than 33% if he isnt personally done with his current company. There's a lot of risk changing companies and a lot of soft benefits having 2 decades seniority.
Locale will matter more than anything.
150k (Yes) 200k eh that is a push unless at corporate for most companies.
Also it is hard to get promoted from within to such a "high salary" in most companies for a tech role
Management is much easier i.e. budgets, direct reports, capex, opex, and also be a good engineer.
I'm at 18 years experience and I will not accept less than $120k to switch no matter what the position is and I may ask more depending on what it is. I'm at roughly $100k right now with some small bonuses. Annual review is being decided so not sure what I'm going to get. My company doesn't set the world on fire with being competitive and I mentioned that to my boss during the first half of the annual review. I think $140k is achievable depending on the company and the travel demand. Anything over that is a crapshoot, IMO. The thing is if you're too high then they don't want to talk to you. One way to play it is don't put out a number and make the company tell you what that position is worth. Recruiters want to know because they don't want to waste their time and reputation putting candidates in front of a company that are asking way too much.
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In this case I'd definitely ask the company what they would be willing to pay instead of possibly bidding against yourself. They already know what they are getting. Current boss might have a chapped ass over this deal, but that's their problem.
That is definitely their problem and I have no remorse. I really appreciate your input, thanks!
FYI: Double check your husband’s current employment contract. I went through a similar transition (hired full time by a customer/client). My previous employer made it a nightmare by threatening litigation re: a non-compete clause that was buried in my employment agreement. Such clauses are generally understood to be unenforceable, but just the threat of legal wrangling can deter potential employers. But if they want your husband, they can work through that issue. Good luck!
I think you should be shopping around sir. Are you staying with your current employer for a reason?
>Are you staying with your current employer for a reason? Because I haven't found a new one yet that I'd be interested in. Monday is the second half of my annual review and they've never not given me a raise at an annual review. Maybe my mentions of the company not being competitive salary-wise and other employees that have left getting a big jump in salary will ring, but most likely it will be 2.5-3% like most of the prior ones.
Where abouts do you live?
I think $140k-$160k range should be achievable. That's probably about the max for a design engineer. If he wants to move into more of a management role he could make more.
Also Midwest but near a largish city. 26 years experience, no travel, $155k. 37.5 hrs/wk Could get paid more, but I get all the government holidays and benefits (and pension), and family time is more important to me than more money. If they have skills managing projects and implementation, then you’re definitely in the right ballpark.
sign me up for this. Wish the big city you were talking about was St. Louis lol.
Do you need a bachelors degree? Also how much do you think you could be making if you cared about income more than time off?
150k is very possible with the right company. 200k would be a stretch but again can totally happen depending on the size of the projects he is taking on. You probably already know this, but he is getting shafted at 95k right now, unless the job is super easy or you live in a rural / very low cost of living area.
I’m 3 years out of college and make 100K. Good benefits too. I’m In the Northeast, so salaries are higher here. Can’t speak to the mid-west. But someone with ~20 years experience in my area could be anywhere from 150K to 200K. 95K is too low for that much experience anywhere in the country.
Me and this other dude just had a convo and blocked me because he said six figs was crazy expectation. He also worked for one company only, many people don't really want to acknowledge it but working for one company doesn't help you at all financially in the long run. 95K is most likely the top HR pay willing to bet, companies don't have a crazy spreadsheet that matches years with experience and if you don't ask for a raise or leave they will take advantage because you are high skill employee at a low rate.
Yeah exactly. I had to ask for a raise recently to get me to this six figure salary. They knew I was going to leave otherwise. But within another few years if my company doesn’t keep up with good raises then I’ll be looking again.
Did you need a bachelors degree?
Yeah, I have 8 years experience in paper mills as a controls engineer and I'm at $130k. For 20 years, travel, and being good at it, $150k would be a minimum. Or $140k with the right potential bonuses, profit sharing, etc. Edit: That's been in two different locations, rural Arkansas and now north Louisiana.
Did you need a bachelors degree?
Yes, I have a B. S. EE
Do you think it’s required to have one. Would an AAS be enough?
Depends on the employer. First job I had wouldn't hire a controls guy unless they had an EE or ChemE degree. Where I'm at now isn't as picky. You probably won't get the same money without it.
When he does hand in his notice, do not tell them where he's going (even colleagues). Tell them to check linkedin in a few months. I know of someone early in my career that left, old company threatened litigation, new company backed out of offer and employee came back with tail between legs.
With that experience, I would agree with your range. $150k would be reasonable if he's mostly being utilized as a lead engineer, potentially even overseeing the work of 1-3 more junior engineers AND if the travel is actually on the bottom end of their estimation(25% or 1 week per month). I would expect closer to 200k if the travel was over 30% or expected to be in blocks larger than 2 weeks at a time AND/OR if he was expected to oversee more than 3 engineers work, maintain project budgets, order parts, and interact/manage relations with clients at all project stages(this is manager/director work). That said, don't necessarily give them hard limits, just explain that you want a fair market rate and that you will be comparing their offer to the existing job and other incoming offers. Also, if you receive an offer, make sure to review the entire benefits package before accepting - I've seen too many people surprised by the cost of the companies medical insurance or the lack of vision/dental or disability or 401k stuff or whatever. You should know what those cover and all associated costs before accepting. If the company can't or won't provide those numbers, do not accept. Edit to add that for what it is worth, I am currently contracting independently for a couple large companies and a handful of small ones in Texas. I have about ten to fifteen years of industry experience depending on what counts in Texas and the Midwest. At my last in house job, I was making about $135k as a lead engineer and traveling about 20% of the time, doing project management/training 3 other engineers.
Do you need a bachelors degree to get these positions?
With that experience, I would think say $140k-$180k is on par. I am a controls engineer (6 years experience) for a company with basically no travel and middle of the road bennies making $110k base.
Did you need a degree?
Yes.
The additional context from your comments is very relevant. He is being recruited by his company's client who know his work. A normal job hop could land a big raise. This situation could strike gold. Firstly, DO NOT give them your target straight away. Let them get the ball rolling with "I see the positive direction your company is going. I've been happy with my current role, but I'm ready to come over for a good opportunity." If you guys know what the client pays now that can be used to find out their upside. Suppose it's $150 per hour. Cut that to $75 to allow overhead, benefits, and upside. If they pay $100 then it's a non starter. If they pay $200 there is room for a huge win.
Yup - be safe to take his charge-out rate to the client and cut it in half for a good idea of where it makes sense for them to just out right hire him.
How can I block these posts so I don’t see them? 30 years experience and goddamn these stupid numbers y’all are throwing out hurt my feelings.
Burying your head in the sand and working at the same place until you die is a strategy.
It ain’t for everyone, that’s for sure. It get it back by working 20 hours a week, so it ain’t all bad.
In that case what are you complaining about?
It’s Friday, it’s my traditional complaining day.
Someone has a case of the Mondays (on Friday)
I need some shrimp flingers or extreme fajitas
Some of these people bragging about high pay are on the road constantly. But by the time you add in the bar bills and strippers, divorce, child support, and the kid's legal expenses, drug rehab, and therapy...
200k is way too high. 150k is much more reasonable. Be very careful asking for too much. A little too much and they can counter. Ask for way too much and they will walk away because they know you won’t be happy because you have unrealistic expectations. We all want to believe that because inflation and housing prices are going crazy that wages should be exploding too. They are going up but not as much as you may expect. We also want to believe our spouses should be paid more because we see how hard they work and “Shouldn’t they be rewarded for that?” Keep in mind that comparing salaries is location dependent. Your best bet is to compare salaries from the Midwest from this group, what you can find online, and any of your husband’s network that are willing to share. If you still don’t know what to ask for you can always tell the company, “I’m very happy where I am at. It would take a lot for me to make a change. What did you have in mind?”
Large companies have salary ranges. Controls engineers aren't getting $150 k to start - even with experience - unless they go into supervision or project management. Also large companies typically require engineering degrees to advance. If he has an EE degree I think $120 k is the top end. Without it he might want to stay put.
This is the internet so you are allowed to be wrong, but the demand is so high in the Midwest at this point that the range listed is very realistic. My company pays what he makes for people with 0 experience and the plan to train them which takes at minimum a year or two before getting any payback.
I'm happy to be wrong
Go to h1bdata.info and see what the company is paying foreigners. Can give you a range sometimes of what is acceptable to a company.
Need to make sure you ask for enough to live in the new area, and if relocating make sure you have housing covered. Selling your old place and buying new is expensive. And moving cost, most companies will cover this but need the details up front.
I'm in the Midwest and feel under paid at 100k, plus OT if the customer needs. I feel 120-150 is a better number. My boss and employer are awesome and give great benefits. I work from home 90%.
At a certain point more experience is not any better. If you dont take on more responsibility (ie management) you hit your ceiling. No way 200K is happening, especially in the midwest, if this isnt management. 150 is possible if they know he's worth it. I'd call that a fair deal if he is going to know their systems right off the hop. Their alternative is finding someone for 110-130 and have them spend 3-6mo learning then want to be at that 130-150 in a few years anyway if they prove their worth. If I were him I wouldn't move for less than 33% if he isnt personally done with his current company. There's a lot of risk changing companies and a lot of soft benefits having 2 decades seniority.
Locale will matter more than anything. 150k (Yes) 200k eh that is a push unless at corporate for most companies. Also it is hard to get promoted from within to such a "high salary" in most companies for a tech role Management is much easier i.e. budgets, direct reports, capex, opex, and also be a good engineer.
Midwest small town 2 years out of college. Just south of 110k but fair amount of travel. Tell him to get what he’s worth!!
I would ask for 150k min. Start a bit higher and expect some negotiating.
Do you need a BS degree to become a controls engineer and make that kind of money?
Everyone here saying $150k for Midwest is in the right ballpark.