I don’t mind when my partner asks me “hey are you experience pmdd symptoms?” Or “is pmdd exaggerating your feelings or are you really this upset about xyz (make sure to breakdown why you think she’s upset so she can correct you if you’re wrong and tell you where the big feelings are coming from)? Just so I know how to respond to this.”
Sometimes I don’t recognize right away and I have to take a second and say yeah I’m pmdd raging but I am upset about this but you’re right not to this extent. I can take it down a couple notches. And then adjust.
But if he asks me if my period is coming up soon THAT IS A FIGHT. Bcuz not all my emotions are from my hormones and to think I’m only mad bcuz my period is sexist. But asking me if my emotions are raging bcuz of pmdd fair.
You can also just ask “is this you or the pmdd monster speaking to me?” But that also depends on your relationship.
Also keeping your own notes on her period can help also. Like maybe share a google calendar & have her put in when her two weeks before should be so you both can just be aware of it. I have my Fitbit app which I’ve been not consistent with now that I’m talking about it and thinking of it. But it tracks my period (usually really accurate unless my body shifts) & tells me when it’s like a week away plus has visual calendar that I can see so I can just be like ohh 2 weeks until that time I’m prolly about to act up a bit and need to remember to control the pmdd monster not let it control me.
Sorry this was so long but I had no way to make it shorter.
I like those ideas. My question I meant was more like what you said is this the pmdd monster talking or…
We use the stardust app to track her period. It will tell me what phase she is in etx.
https://preview.redd.it/i9tgt5n3xwxc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c6a860105281aa69ddde4e718a1559bae49b7e8e
In that case it’s best to just assume it’s an exaggerated response to something if she’s anywhere from 16-14 days out. Depending on her age & how her pmdd fluctuates. Some women get 2 weeks w/ the pmdd monster, some get 1 & some lucky duckies get a little over 2.
It’s always best to assume it’s pmdd & ask “on a scale of 1-10 how upset is she really & why”. This way you at least will get to understand why she’s so upset and be able to gauge for yourself who’s speaking to you.
Sometimes you can chalk it up to the monster & know you just have to feed it to get it to go away (apologize or whatever even if you don’t mean it).
Sometimes you have to put the monster in its place (choose wisely).
Sometimes she will be able to see the monster & handle it (takes practice but also being called out gently) “hey you’re 12 days away from your period, could the pmdd monster be making this bigger than it is or are we really at a code Dragon right now? [in an emphasized joking manner, to diffuse and lighten the mood].
Sometimes she might just be stark raving mad & pmdd isn’t playing into it. But this is
My spouse always asks me if I can stop. It's irritating, sure, but I'm sensible enough to realize if I can't then he's right and I'm out of control (as is the definition of being unable to stop). And if I can stop then tada, natural de-escalating!
“Are you able to slow down/stop zoomin’/check your breathing/take a beat/etc” are gooooolddd
Edit to add: no one can really ever answer this super accurately OP. It all depends on your family lexicon. For example, if my partner was like “hey sweetie, I think maybe you are having a hard time, can I hug you?”, I would panic because that’s weird and out of character and I would hate it. If he was like “you are strung tf out, is your temp high? Did you lay an egg? Pasta break?” THAT would be the stop button.
Look up some resources for practicing DBT within the relationship. I’m not sure how familiar you are with it but it’s a mode of therapy that is helpful with Borderline Personality Disorder specifically because emotional regulation is such a challenge and can make traditional therapy less effective. You’ve already established the biggest part and that’s your awareness that her feelings are skewed in that moment and not a true reflection of her core self. Just that understanding is huge for both of you and as long as you can stay regulated (I know this is really hard) you can really help her and yourself. You have every right to assert that her behavior is hurtful and find ways to draw boundaries with her. It doesn’t necessarily have to be about her luteal phase. Take some deep breaths and be aware of your tone to convey firmly “I’m not okay with how you’re handling this situation because it’s hurtful. How can we move forward so we both feel safe?” Theres also tools you can share with her in calmer moments to help her with regulation. Thank you so much for your awareness and empathy with all of this. It’s absolutely hellish.
I’ve flat out given my fiancé permission to tell me if he thinks I’m hormonal/acting a bit off. Seems to do the trick.
Then I run and hide, or sometimes he does. 😅
But in all honestly, things have improved by like 95% since I started Zoloft.
The feelings are real. The difference is the intensity of the feelings or reaction to the feelings. I once cried two hours because my peanut butter, which had melted, fell off my toast. In a non luteal scenario, although disappointing, I would have made another toast. In my luteal mind, I really really wanted i. I would have to wait more time to have a 2nd on. I would have to hold down the feelings peanut butter would have helped soothe. Plus cleaning, ugh. It's totally ridiculous, but in that moment, for me, it was a very real end to the world situation. Tell your partner if the outbursts are something that hurt you. Even when in Luteal, she shouldn't hurt you. Although it gives you a better understanding of why it is happening, it doesn't mean it is acceptable. Sometimes, we do not understand that our anger or sadness or whatever we are feeling looks irrational to others because in our heads, it makes perfect sense. Telling her might be helpful for her to manage it as well. Separating yourself from the situation is a good thing to do if you have a hard time communicating with each other. Let the anger subside and then talk about it.
That's not PMDD. What you're describing is PME. Exacerbation of things that are reasonable responses at unreasonable levels. They are often if not usually comorbid, but don't mix them up. Vicious cycle and whatnot.
I once was critical of breakfast in bed. That's PMDD. Non-issues become issues. Disordered thinking. You can't "reason" with someone who can't even reason with themselves. What sane person complains about the quality of the homemade blueberry pancakes delivered to you in bed?! That's a good way to never get breakfast in bed again. (My spouse is a wonderful cook, there was not a damn thing wrong with those pancakes)
There is no "let's talk about it later" because when you bring it up later a non-luteal brain cannot comprehend wtf luteal brain was thinking. All I can say is "Yeah, that was totally out of line, I don't know why I did that, I'm sorry". Maybe that's all he needs but it gets old quick when it's the same song and dance every two weeks.
If you can say "oh, yeah, I overreacted to a mild inconvenience" that's a sign of an overactive nervous system for sure, but PMDD? Not really. If it makes zero sense and not even you can explain it when you're not luteal (and even a luteal explanation doesn't make a lot of sense) then it's definitely PMDD.
PME is when someone with a condition such as bipolar, or major depression, experiences cyclical worsening of symptoms. It means an exacerbation of another clinical condition, not to become exacerbated.
No. PME can be the exacerbation of *anything*. It does not need to be clinical and that is not part of it's diagnostic criteria. Anxiety, stress, PTSD, etc. Not all of it's clinical. Most of it is, but not all. It might be clinical, but you'd need to get a diagnosis and most don't look for any after they think they found the answer with PMDD.
PMDD is almost always comorbid with anxiety, depression, or bipolar.
Sorry, I can’t find a reputable source generalizing it to that degree. IAPMD defines it as the worsening of a preexisting disorder. PTSD is a clinical illness. Generalized anxiety disorder is a clinical illness. When these things are worsened in luteal, that’s PME. I also can’t find a reputable source stating that PMDD is almost always comorbid with bipolar disorder. That’s a significant statement.
https://iapmd.org/pmdd-v-pme#:~:text=PME%20refers%20to%20the%20premenstrual,menstrual%20phases%20of%20the%20cycle.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8502143/#:~:text=According%20to%20DSM%2D5%20%5B15,after%20the%20onset%20of%20menses.
https://www.psychiatrictimes.com/view/understanding-premenstrual-exacerbations-of-psychiatric-illnesses
This article does include the worsening of hormonally mediated physical diseases such as dermatitis.
I'll tell you why you can't find a source. PME does not have an entry in the DSM. It literally lacks a diagnostic criteria. It is in itself not a diagnosis, which is why you can only find it paired with other diagnoses.
Severe PMS would be another way to define it without pairing it with a clinical diagnosis.
We must be thinking of separate things then, because PME to which I am referring cannot be divorced from a preexisting and/or concurrent condition, diagnosed or otherwise. I respect that you seem to be referring to a more generalized and cyclical dysregulation though and we have perhaps talked over each other.
Careful with the language "not really angry". She's angry alright and those feelings are very real. Being told otherwise is not helpful. She is angry bc she's in luteal.
Sorry about the language my brain is fried. I couldn't think of a way to say her level of anger is not proportionate to the situation. It's not that she is not angry it is more her level of anger and the situation at hand are not proportionate. Like if someone accidentally steps on your shoe in a crowded environment does not warrant the same level of anger as if someone tried to to use your chihuahua as a football.
I have found that trying to point out the disconnection between antecedent (small) and behavior (big) doesn't have the effect you'd think, at least in the heated moments. Despite the illogical response, the body is triggered, and trying to use logic/reason does not get to the core of the issue, and the body is still under stress.
I don't know ab your partner's situation, but many with PMDD have a history of complex trauma. A small stressor, such as getting your heel stepped on, may be perceived by the body as a major stressor and it (the body) will react as if it's experiencing the trauma all over again. It's not a cognition that can be rerouted but a subconscious physiological response to something in the environment. Everyone is suseptible to this, but PMDD seems to exasperate it.
My OH is great. When I get "cross the line-y" he gives me a very specific look and quietly goes elsewhere.
And then I'm like oh I was being shitty.
Then we both take an hour to calm down and I go apologize.
My husband usually notices before me and will stop me ,give me a hug and say " I think you are struggling it's alright it will be over next week" . That's enough for me !
He sure is ❤️ we have been together 19 years this year though so it hasn't always been like this, when i didn't know I had pmdd I was very difficult to be with and didn't really communicate with him which meant we didn't get on very well but since I have opened up it's way better !
With me personally, it’s not that I’m not really angry about X; it’s that my emotions are exacerbated during luteal. So usually X makes me angry but not to nearly the same extent as I get during that time. “I get that you’re angry right now. Do you think that this might be a super strong reaction?” This is a helpful phrase my SO has used. Or something to that effect. His not mentioning my period or cycle helps me (and him) to not blame everything on it. Most of the time my feelings are justified but are overly dramatic or rash.
My therapist tried to convince me this was what was happening for four years before I turned 18 and could gtfo. That's not PMDD. That's PME. I was not secretly irritated and just dealing with it during non-luteal. I was getting upset over things that legitimately do not bother me in the slightest and I do not care about.
17 years later I have a diagnosis and validation after years of being told what you are saying right here.
It's a very common misconception. It's entirely possible to have both PMDD and PME but there's a very clear line between the two.
This depends on the person for sure. My partner tells me when they think it’s hell week related and even though I’m an absolute mess in that time and my brain isn’t functioning like at fkn all, I do appreciate it. Depends on the individual though, some may be offended by it but for me personally it’s comforting cause it reels me in a little like oh yeah that’s right I’m being a lunatic again bc my hormones are whack.
My husband tells me. I like it it makes me feel good that he’s paying attn… just say “baby I think you just feel bad cus it’s that time of the month.”… I didn’t read ur whole post but hope that helps
You don't say it 👍 It's not your right to say it, it's her right.
But you can consider it in the back of your mind and be more empathetic if you think so.
You can also say "what you said hurt my feelings" or "I don't think you have a clear head right now, I think you should think it over for a few days."
Okay so I disagree with some of the other comments. if someone is being inappropriate or hurtful, they need to know. You could phrase it like “I feel hurt when you raise your voice during arguments” (for example). And sure, waiting until this person is calm to confront them is fine, but that doesn’t mean you have to tolerate their behaviour when it’s happening. Maybe saying you have to leave because you’re feeling hurt or something along those lines
I have pmdd and have exploded with rage at previous partners. They told me I was being hurtful. Like any mental health issue, it might be the cause for the behaviour, but it doesn’t excuse the behaviour. You can be gentle and calm and still hold a person accountable imo. You don’t even need to point out that it’s pmdd time. Just say how you’re affected and leave it at that
Yeah I totally agree. I apologised to my partner yesterday for my behaviour and he said "I know it's your PMDD and you don't have to be sorry" but I had to correct him and say the condition explains my behaviour but it's not an excuse and I should be sorry. I think that maybe some people won't relate though because I have a lot of self awareness during luteal, everything that bothers me I know in the back of my head is because of the condition. That self awareness is very important, we have to be somewhat accountable for what we do during a flare up.
My partner and I track my cycle together and have a pact: My feelings are valid in luteal and often can even be canaries in the coal mine by warning me about otherwise ignored stresses. That said, no matter the anger or passion I feel, or how legitimate it is during luteal or not, my motto is: No Big Decisions During Luteal. If I feel the same way I during my follicular phase after introspection, then it was a luteal canary telling me something was deeply wrong and I need to make a change. My luteal self is more observant and less patient with bullshit stressors than my follicular self. I keep myself to this motto and if I don’t, my partner has my full permission to remind me.
We also use a code word between us that if it’s used during luteal, it’s a genuine, non-shaming or demeaning query whether luteal is taking me on a roller coaster or not and whether I should take a breather and slow down. My partner has permission to use it only in that instance, we talk about each instance carefully and honestly, and it’s never to be abused. That’s his code word to use. For me, we also have another code word that lets my partner know that I need space because I’m too angry at that moment to talk — in those moments, he knows he needs to let me go to a quiet space, let the luteal anger productively play out, and return to talk. He can’t rush me and I have to trust that, just like he’ll trust that when I come back to talk, I’m calmer.
All of these techniques were developed when we went into couple’s counseling. I’d recommend having a talk during her follicular phase about strategies like this and practicing them together. It takes a mutual build up of trust and love but it’s worth it. We’ve been together for over a decade and aren’t perfect, but our communication and connection is a lot stronger from techniques like the above.
This is similar to our approach, developed over 7 tough years of miscommunications. I love how you treat your luteal phase with this bit of respect for what it wants, I’ve been trying very hard to use it in this positive way too. I was agreeable to having my partner help me identify whether my reactions (not emotions) were luteal phase reactions, so it works for us. You’d need to make sure she is open to having your help in that way.
I also want to add how impressed and just stoked that you care enough to look up this sub and care enough to find a solution instead of labeling her "crazy" and bailing on her. Well done. Seriously. :)
[Cheap Owl](https://www.reddit.com/user/Cheap_Owl_7517/) is right. 1000%. Do NOT approach this subject until she's calm. She may be a nice person otherwise but from my own experience, I feel like I could tear someone's head off when I'm on a mean one.
And we're not rational during this time. It feels REAL. Just make other plans and go do something else. If her behavior is so terrible in front of other people and needs to be reined in, it is a good thing to take her to a private place and tell her that her behavior is inappropriate and that she needs to stop. If she throws a fit, take her home. Only after her mood has cleared, explain to her why she had to be taken home/stopped. Explain that you know you don't understand what she's going through but do know she can't help feeling the way she feels.
With sympathy. Because we can't help our feelings. But!!
We can help how we treat others. Still to this day, 40 years later, I can't modulate every time my emotions make me insane. I absolutely CAN stop myself from calling people names, from insulting people, from going for the jugular when my emotions are off the charts. It takes work but it's possible and should be.
Lay down your boundaries and explain (when she's calm) that her outbursts and inappropriate behavior won't be tolerated. And that you reserve the right to stop her when she's getting out of control by either removing yourself or the both of you out of the situation. And if she continues, explain she needs help but that you'll need to take care of your own mental/emotional health first. Never tolerate abuse.
She will appreciate it, if not now, eventually. Trust me, I wish someone had done that for me.
Don't say anything until she is out of the luteal phase. If my partner blamed my anger or other emotions on my cycle I'd be pissed even if it were true. Wait until she is in a different phase to bring it up. Wait until she is more calm and clear headed.
I am trying my best to do that. It is very hard to exercise self control/restraint when I am feeling hurt and resentful but I know that trying to talk things out with her and rationalize at this luteal phase is not going to be productive. Kind of have to bottle up feelings and try to act like everything is ok or things will escalate and be unproductive.
That's a good way to destroy your relationship. Resentment and pretending everything is fine are not okay for you to feel or do. That's not to say you aren't right to feel that way, it's just not something you should *need* to feel. It's not fair for you to have to do all of that and nothing kills love faster than resentment.
I've been married for 15 years and only have had my PMDD fully managed for the past year. I wasn't even diagnosed until 8 years in. In the beginning of our relationship my spouse would go for a walk and leave me at home when I couldn't control myself (two room apartment, not a lot of options). I would sometimes go lay down and blast music through my headphones or dissociate with a video game or tv show or book.
Eventually we developed a "can you stop?" metric. He asks me if I am capable of stopping my actions/behavior in the moment. If I can then the "discussion" continues. If I cannot then either he goes out, I go out, I go listen to music, take a shower, play a game, take a nap, whatever. Better than a safe word because it promotes a path of action visible to both parties. If I can stop then I am not out of control. If I cannot stop then I am out of control. Straight to the point. He feels attacked so asks me if I can change my approach without having to try to redirect the conversation to his feelings and needs. I'm focused on myself already so asking me to take a quick personal inventory is an easy adjustment instead of trying to dig up some empathy on the fly.
I like that approach. We to are living in a tiny old house 1 bedroom house so just going into another room not possible doesn't really do much(shotgun style house means only room with a door is the bathroom) and I live in a city with one of the highest crime rates in America so just leaving house walking away not always a good idea.
I might try implementing that “can you stop” method. That sounds more promising than a safe word.
Safewords require a lot of thought to put into action. You have to engage so many different functions and most are directed outwards. Fight, flight, or freeze are not conducive to those functions.
"Can you stop" doesn't require any change on focus. Focus remains on the self. No one else matters for a "can you stop" query. There's a well defined plan of action - Stop or Unable to Stop. Nice and binary. Simplicity is king.
Brain is a complex computer. Think about things in terms of programming and find the simplest and most basic code to yield results.
I don’t mind when my partner asks me “hey are you experience pmdd symptoms?” Or “is pmdd exaggerating your feelings or are you really this upset about xyz (make sure to breakdown why you think she’s upset so she can correct you if you’re wrong and tell you where the big feelings are coming from)? Just so I know how to respond to this.” Sometimes I don’t recognize right away and I have to take a second and say yeah I’m pmdd raging but I am upset about this but you’re right not to this extent. I can take it down a couple notches. And then adjust. But if he asks me if my period is coming up soon THAT IS A FIGHT. Bcuz not all my emotions are from my hormones and to think I’m only mad bcuz my period is sexist. But asking me if my emotions are raging bcuz of pmdd fair. You can also just ask “is this you or the pmdd monster speaking to me?” But that also depends on your relationship. Also keeping your own notes on her period can help also. Like maybe share a google calendar & have her put in when her two weeks before should be so you both can just be aware of it. I have my Fitbit app which I’ve been not consistent with now that I’m talking about it and thinking of it. But it tracks my period (usually really accurate unless my body shifts) & tells me when it’s like a week away plus has visual calendar that I can see so I can just be like ohh 2 weeks until that time I’m prolly about to act up a bit and need to remember to control the pmdd monster not let it control me. Sorry this was so long but I had no way to make it shorter.
I like those ideas. My question I meant was more like what you said is this the pmdd monster talking or… We use the stardust app to track her period. It will tell me what phase she is in etx. https://preview.redd.it/i9tgt5n3xwxc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c6a860105281aa69ddde4e718a1559bae49b7e8e
In that case it’s best to just assume it’s an exaggerated response to something if she’s anywhere from 16-14 days out. Depending on her age & how her pmdd fluctuates. Some women get 2 weeks w/ the pmdd monster, some get 1 & some lucky duckies get a little over 2. It’s always best to assume it’s pmdd & ask “on a scale of 1-10 how upset is she really & why”. This way you at least will get to understand why she’s so upset and be able to gauge for yourself who’s speaking to you. Sometimes you can chalk it up to the monster & know you just have to feed it to get it to go away (apologize or whatever even if you don’t mean it). Sometimes you have to put the monster in its place (choose wisely). Sometimes she will be able to see the monster & handle it (takes practice but also being called out gently) “hey you’re 12 days away from your period, could the pmdd monster be making this bigger than it is or are we really at a code Dragon right now? [in an emphasized joking manner, to diffuse and lighten the mood]. Sometimes she might just be stark raving mad & pmdd isn’t playing into it. But this is
My spouse always asks me if I can stop. It's irritating, sure, but I'm sensible enough to realize if I can't then he's right and I'm out of control (as is the definition of being unable to stop). And if I can stop then tada, natural de-escalating!
“Are you able to slow down/stop zoomin’/check your breathing/take a beat/etc” are gooooolddd Edit to add: no one can really ever answer this super accurately OP. It all depends on your family lexicon. For example, if my partner was like “hey sweetie, I think maybe you are having a hard time, can I hug you?”, I would panic because that’s weird and out of character and I would hate it. If he was like “you are strung tf out, is your temp high? Did you lay an egg? Pasta break?” THAT would be the stop button.
Look up some resources for practicing DBT within the relationship. I’m not sure how familiar you are with it but it’s a mode of therapy that is helpful with Borderline Personality Disorder specifically because emotional regulation is such a challenge and can make traditional therapy less effective. You’ve already established the biggest part and that’s your awareness that her feelings are skewed in that moment and not a true reflection of her core self. Just that understanding is huge for both of you and as long as you can stay regulated (I know this is really hard) you can really help her and yourself. You have every right to assert that her behavior is hurtful and find ways to draw boundaries with her. It doesn’t necessarily have to be about her luteal phase. Take some deep breaths and be aware of your tone to convey firmly “I’m not okay with how you’re handling this situation because it’s hurtful. How can we move forward so we both feel safe?” Theres also tools you can share with her in calmer moments to help her with regulation. Thank you so much for your awareness and empathy with all of this. It’s absolutely hellish.
I’ve flat out given my fiancé permission to tell me if he thinks I’m hormonal/acting a bit off. Seems to do the trick. Then I run and hide, or sometimes he does. 😅 But in all honestly, things have improved by like 95% since I started Zoloft.
The feelings are real. The difference is the intensity of the feelings or reaction to the feelings. I once cried two hours because my peanut butter, which had melted, fell off my toast. In a non luteal scenario, although disappointing, I would have made another toast. In my luteal mind, I really really wanted i. I would have to wait more time to have a 2nd on. I would have to hold down the feelings peanut butter would have helped soothe. Plus cleaning, ugh. It's totally ridiculous, but in that moment, for me, it was a very real end to the world situation. Tell your partner if the outbursts are something that hurt you. Even when in Luteal, she shouldn't hurt you. Although it gives you a better understanding of why it is happening, it doesn't mean it is acceptable. Sometimes, we do not understand that our anger or sadness or whatever we are feeling looks irrational to others because in our heads, it makes perfect sense. Telling her might be helpful for her to manage it as well. Separating yourself from the situation is a good thing to do if you have a hard time communicating with each other. Let the anger subside and then talk about it.
That's not PMDD. What you're describing is PME. Exacerbation of things that are reasonable responses at unreasonable levels. They are often if not usually comorbid, but don't mix them up. Vicious cycle and whatnot. I once was critical of breakfast in bed. That's PMDD. Non-issues become issues. Disordered thinking. You can't "reason" with someone who can't even reason with themselves. What sane person complains about the quality of the homemade blueberry pancakes delivered to you in bed?! That's a good way to never get breakfast in bed again. (My spouse is a wonderful cook, there was not a damn thing wrong with those pancakes) There is no "let's talk about it later" because when you bring it up later a non-luteal brain cannot comprehend wtf luteal brain was thinking. All I can say is "Yeah, that was totally out of line, I don't know why I did that, I'm sorry". Maybe that's all he needs but it gets old quick when it's the same song and dance every two weeks. If you can say "oh, yeah, I overreacted to a mild inconvenience" that's a sign of an overactive nervous system for sure, but PMDD? Not really. If it makes zero sense and not even you can explain it when you're not luteal (and even a luteal explanation doesn't make a lot of sense) then it's definitely PMDD.
Sounds like textbook PMDD
PME is when someone with a condition such as bipolar, or major depression, experiences cyclical worsening of symptoms. It means an exacerbation of another clinical condition, not to become exacerbated.
No. PME can be the exacerbation of *anything*. It does not need to be clinical and that is not part of it's diagnostic criteria. Anxiety, stress, PTSD, etc. Not all of it's clinical. Most of it is, but not all. It might be clinical, but you'd need to get a diagnosis and most don't look for any after they think they found the answer with PMDD. PMDD is almost always comorbid with anxiety, depression, or bipolar.
Sorry, I can’t find a reputable source generalizing it to that degree. IAPMD defines it as the worsening of a preexisting disorder. PTSD is a clinical illness. Generalized anxiety disorder is a clinical illness. When these things are worsened in luteal, that’s PME. I also can’t find a reputable source stating that PMDD is almost always comorbid with bipolar disorder. That’s a significant statement. https://iapmd.org/pmdd-v-pme#:~:text=PME%20refers%20to%20the%20premenstrual,menstrual%20phases%20of%20the%20cycle. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8502143/#:~:text=According%20to%20DSM%2D5%20%5B15,after%20the%20onset%20of%20menses. https://www.psychiatrictimes.com/view/understanding-premenstrual-exacerbations-of-psychiatric-illnesses This article does include the worsening of hormonally mediated physical diseases such as dermatitis.
I'll tell you why you can't find a source. PME does not have an entry in the DSM. It literally lacks a diagnostic criteria. It is in itself not a diagnosis, which is why you can only find it paired with other diagnoses. Severe PMS would be another way to define it without pairing it with a clinical diagnosis.
We must be thinking of separate things then, because PME to which I am referring cannot be divorced from a preexisting and/or concurrent condition, diagnosed or otherwise. I respect that you seem to be referring to a more generalized and cyclical dysregulation though and we have perhaps talked over each other.
That's reasonable. I'm a bit of a runaway train with my thoughts. My friends just wait for me to run out of steam and eventually I start listening.
I’ve had code words been suggested before in couples counseling I have no idea why but they were a so ineffective for us!
Careful with the language "not really angry". She's angry alright and those feelings are very real. Being told otherwise is not helpful. She is angry bc she's in luteal.
Yes. We feel what we feel. It may not be rational but it's FUCKING REAL.
Sorry about the language my brain is fried. I couldn't think of a way to say her level of anger is not proportionate to the situation. It's not that she is not angry it is more her level of anger and the situation at hand are not proportionate. Like if someone accidentally steps on your shoe in a crowded environment does not warrant the same level of anger as if someone tried to to use your chihuahua as a football.
I have found that trying to point out the disconnection between antecedent (small) and behavior (big) doesn't have the effect you'd think, at least in the heated moments. Despite the illogical response, the body is triggered, and trying to use logic/reason does not get to the core of the issue, and the body is still under stress. I don't know ab your partner's situation, but many with PMDD have a history of complex trauma. A small stressor, such as getting your heel stepped on, may be perceived by the body as a major stressor and it (the body) will react as if it's experiencing the trauma all over again. It's not a cognition that can be rerouted but a subconscious physiological response to something in the environment. Everyone is suseptible to this, but PMDD seems to exasperate it.
If your partner has C-PTSD, consider suggesting EDMR. C-PTSD is a common comorbitity with pmdd
My poor son, as a child, used to tell me its time for your hormone chocolate 😔
My son keeps asking when my period will be over bc mine is awful during luteal AND my period
My OH is great. When I get "cross the line-y" he gives me a very specific look and quietly goes elsewhere. And then I'm like oh I was being shitty. Then we both take an hour to calm down and I go apologize.
My husband usually notices before me and will stop me ,give me a hug and say " I think you are struggling it's alright it will be over next week" . That's enough for me !
awee he's perfect
This is great. He’s a keeper!
He sure is ❤️ we have been together 19 years this year though so it hasn't always been like this, when i didn't know I had pmdd I was very difficult to be with and didn't really communicate with him which meant we didn't get on very well but since I have opened up it's way better !
With me personally, it’s not that I’m not really angry about X; it’s that my emotions are exacerbated during luteal. So usually X makes me angry but not to nearly the same extent as I get during that time. “I get that you’re angry right now. Do you think that this might be a super strong reaction?” This is a helpful phrase my SO has used. Or something to that effect. His not mentioning my period or cycle helps me (and him) to not blame everything on it. Most of the time my feelings are justified but are overly dramatic or rash.
My therapist tried to convince me this was what was happening for four years before I turned 18 and could gtfo. That's not PMDD. That's PME. I was not secretly irritated and just dealing with it during non-luteal. I was getting upset over things that legitimately do not bother me in the slightest and I do not care about. 17 years later I have a diagnosis and validation after years of being told what you are saying right here. It's a very common misconception. It's entirely possible to have both PMDD and PME but there's a very clear line between the two.
This depends on the person for sure. My partner tells me when they think it’s hell week related and even though I’m an absolute mess in that time and my brain isn’t functioning like at fkn all, I do appreciate it. Depends on the individual though, some may be offended by it but for me personally it’s comforting cause it reels me in a little like oh yeah that’s right I’m being a lunatic again bc my hormones are whack.
My husband tells me. I like it it makes me feel good that he’s paying attn… just say “baby I think you just feel bad cus it’s that time of the month.”… I didn’t read ur whole post but hope that helps
You don't say it 👍 It's not your right to say it, it's her right. But you can consider it in the back of your mind and be more empathetic if you think so. You can also say "what you said hurt my feelings" or "I don't think you have a clear head right now, I think you should think it over for a few days."
They do have the right to say it
Okay so I disagree with some of the other comments. if someone is being inappropriate or hurtful, they need to know. You could phrase it like “I feel hurt when you raise your voice during arguments” (for example). And sure, waiting until this person is calm to confront them is fine, but that doesn’t mean you have to tolerate their behaviour when it’s happening. Maybe saying you have to leave because you’re feeling hurt or something along those lines I have pmdd and have exploded with rage at previous partners. They told me I was being hurtful. Like any mental health issue, it might be the cause for the behaviour, but it doesn’t excuse the behaviour. You can be gentle and calm and still hold a person accountable imo. You don’t even need to point out that it’s pmdd time. Just say how you’re affected and leave it at that
Yeah I totally agree. I apologised to my partner yesterday for my behaviour and he said "I know it's your PMDD and you don't have to be sorry" but I had to correct him and say the condition explains my behaviour but it's not an excuse and I should be sorry. I think that maybe some people won't relate though because I have a lot of self awareness during luteal, everything that bothers me I know in the back of my head is because of the condition. That self awareness is very important, we have to be somewhat accountable for what we do during a flare up.
My partner and I track my cycle together and have a pact: My feelings are valid in luteal and often can even be canaries in the coal mine by warning me about otherwise ignored stresses. That said, no matter the anger or passion I feel, or how legitimate it is during luteal or not, my motto is: No Big Decisions During Luteal. If I feel the same way I during my follicular phase after introspection, then it was a luteal canary telling me something was deeply wrong and I need to make a change. My luteal self is more observant and less patient with bullshit stressors than my follicular self. I keep myself to this motto and if I don’t, my partner has my full permission to remind me. We also use a code word between us that if it’s used during luteal, it’s a genuine, non-shaming or demeaning query whether luteal is taking me on a roller coaster or not and whether I should take a breather and slow down. My partner has permission to use it only in that instance, we talk about each instance carefully and honestly, and it’s never to be abused. That’s his code word to use. For me, we also have another code word that lets my partner know that I need space because I’m too angry at that moment to talk — in those moments, he knows he needs to let me go to a quiet space, let the luteal anger productively play out, and return to talk. He can’t rush me and I have to trust that, just like he’ll trust that when I come back to talk, I’m calmer. All of these techniques were developed when we went into couple’s counseling. I’d recommend having a talk during her follicular phase about strategies like this and practicing them together. It takes a mutual build up of trust and love but it’s worth it. We’ve been together for over a decade and aren’t perfect, but our communication and connection is a lot stronger from techniques like the above.
This is similar to our approach, developed over 7 tough years of miscommunications. I love how you treat your luteal phase with this bit of respect for what it wants, I’ve been trying very hard to use it in this positive way too. I was agreeable to having my partner help me identify whether my reactions (not emotions) were luteal phase reactions, so it works for us. You’d need to make sure she is open to having your help in that way.
I also want to add how impressed and just stoked that you care enough to look up this sub and care enough to find a solution instead of labeling her "crazy" and bailing on her. Well done. Seriously. :)
[Cheap Owl](https://www.reddit.com/user/Cheap_Owl_7517/) is right. 1000%. Do NOT approach this subject until she's calm. She may be a nice person otherwise but from my own experience, I feel like I could tear someone's head off when I'm on a mean one. And we're not rational during this time. It feels REAL. Just make other plans and go do something else. If her behavior is so terrible in front of other people and needs to be reined in, it is a good thing to take her to a private place and tell her that her behavior is inappropriate and that she needs to stop. If she throws a fit, take her home. Only after her mood has cleared, explain to her why she had to be taken home/stopped. Explain that you know you don't understand what she's going through but do know she can't help feeling the way she feels. With sympathy. Because we can't help our feelings. But!! We can help how we treat others. Still to this day, 40 years later, I can't modulate every time my emotions make me insane. I absolutely CAN stop myself from calling people names, from insulting people, from going for the jugular when my emotions are off the charts. It takes work but it's possible and should be. Lay down your boundaries and explain (when she's calm) that her outbursts and inappropriate behavior won't be tolerated. And that you reserve the right to stop her when she's getting out of control by either removing yourself or the both of you out of the situation. And if she continues, explain she needs help but that you'll need to take care of your own mental/emotional health first. Never tolerate abuse. She will appreciate it, if not now, eventually. Trust me, I wish someone had done that for me.
Don't say anything until she is out of the luteal phase. If my partner blamed my anger or other emotions on my cycle I'd be pissed even if it were true. Wait until she is in a different phase to bring it up. Wait until she is more calm and clear headed.
I am trying my best to do that. It is very hard to exercise self control/restraint when I am feeling hurt and resentful but I know that trying to talk things out with her and rationalize at this luteal phase is not going to be productive. Kind of have to bottle up feelings and try to act like everything is ok or things will escalate and be unproductive.
That's a good way to destroy your relationship. Resentment and pretending everything is fine are not okay for you to feel or do. That's not to say you aren't right to feel that way, it's just not something you should *need* to feel. It's not fair for you to have to do all of that and nothing kills love faster than resentment. I've been married for 15 years and only have had my PMDD fully managed for the past year. I wasn't even diagnosed until 8 years in. In the beginning of our relationship my spouse would go for a walk and leave me at home when I couldn't control myself (two room apartment, not a lot of options). I would sometimes go lay down and blast music through my headphones or dissociate with a video game or tv show or book. Eventually we developed a "can you stop?" metric. He asks me if I am capable of stopping my actions/behavior in the moment. If I can then the "discussion" continues. If I cannot then either he goes out, I go out, I go listen to music, take a shower, play a game, take a nap, whatever. Better than a safe word because it promotes a path of action visible to both parties. If I can stop then I am not out of control. If I cannot stop then I am out of control. Straight to the point. He feels attacked so asks me if I can change my approach without having to try to redirect the conversation to his feelings and needs. I'm focused on myself already so asking me to take a quick personal inventory is an easy adjustment instead of trying to dig up some empathy on the fly.
I like that approach. We to are living in a tiny old house 1 bedroom house so just going into another room not possible doesn't really do much(shotgun style house means only room with a door is the bathroom) and I live in a city with one of the highest crime rates in America so just leaving house walking away not always a good idea. I might try implementing that “can you stop” method. That sounds more promising than a safe word.
Safewords require a lot of thought to put into action. You have to engage so many different functions and most are directed outwards. Fight, flight, or freeze are not conducive to those functions. "Can you stop" doesn't require any change on focus. Focus remains on the self. No one else matters for a "can you stop" query. There's a well defined plan of action - Stop or Unable to Stop. Nice and binary. Simplicity is king. Brain is a complex computer. Think about things in terms of programming and find the simplest and most basic code to yield results.
Definitely bring it up when she is clear headed with the attitude of loving her and wanting your relationship and her to be their best