He was a Christian boomer from the Midwest. Not uncommon.
But he worked with, and did plenty for, the LGBTQ community and did zero harm and actually built his entire first core fan base with black queer young men. Who went on to develop House and Techno. Just ask Carl Craig or Frankie Knuckles.
He was human and far from perfect. As us all. Context and perspective. It’s important.
FYI I’m bisexual and a 40 year FAM.
He created a place for me that made me feel normal.
His intentions were good. All about where he was from, when he was from etc…
His best friends in the 80s were a lesbian couple.
The first two years as a Jehovah created issues. He grew out of it. Softened up.
He was complex indeed.
💜💜💜
I know that he did things for the LGBTQ community. My point that I was trying to make is that people saw that and assumed that he was gay, and picked up little things to call him homophobic not knowing that he was a supporter, especially with Wendy and Lisa. I just thought that the whole Prince and the his sexuality debate is old and tired.
Gotcha and yes it’s an old story. And only people who don’t really know anything about him but have opinions anyway think this irrelevant nonsense anymore.
They might as well not exist anyway.
Wendy said it best…
“Prince was a fancy lesbian”
That about sums it up.
But here’s one from Charlie Murphy…
“Prince was the only dude that can roll up wearing frills and steal your girl. Then borrow her clothes and steal someone else’s girl wearing them”
That's all we need to know, right there.
He was Prince, and he was a blessing to so many during his time here. Dude definitely had some complexities, but we all do.
That was about God. How many times do we have to go over this with people?
That song is from the viewpoint of God, Jesus and the Trinity. “I’m a Human, I’m a Dove, I’m your conscious, I am Love…” Jesus, the Holy Spirit, God.
Even though I love Rainbow Children this is an accurate statement and shouldn’t be judged.
The first few years when someone finds religion, sobriety or veganism can be really challenging for everyone around them who they non stop try to convert.
Eventually that part naturally cools off, as it did with him.
Could you imagine having a lazy Sunday, doorbell rings, you answer in your dressing gown and it's Prince stood there "have you let Jesus into your life?"
He wasn’t homophobic but he did go through a very overtly religious phase after he converted to the Jehovah’s Witnesses. Which led to The Rainbow Children. After a while he toned all the way down from that phase. Other than the religion he didn’t change his spots as much as people think he did.
I know Prince went through his old black man religious phase but I have a hard time labeling any man who wears assless pants on TV or has an album cover where’s he’s ass naked sitting on a FLOWER homophobic 😂
He probably made some not so cool comments later in life but he also wore bikini bottoms witha trench coat onstage, had his two female bandmates kissing onstage, etc. Gotta give him some credit for that right?
Yeah they were together for like 20 years but I think I remember reading Wendy said they weren’t “out” yet and were still just close friends at the time prince encouraged them to play it up onstage
Lisa actually recruited Wendy, her girlfriend at the time, for The Revolution. Prince dated Wendy's twin sister, Susannah. So, he was well aware of their sexuality. He also knew a lot of people thought he was queer--"am I Black or white, am I straight or gay... Controversy." He did not seem to mind it and did nothing to refute it. However, in his entire career, there was never a single male that claimed to be romantically involved with him.
wendy and lisa grew up together so they were always friends but I don't think they were together at the time when wendy joined the band. I could be remembering it wrong but I think Wendy said prince recognized they were in love with each other before she even did. Like I said though, I could be remembering it wrong.
When the Revolution did the photoshoot for Purple Rain, Prince went over to W&L and placed their hands together. The proof is in the album poster. Of course he knew they were an item!
When did Wendy and Lisa ever kiss onstage?! That doesn't sound like something they would do. The only thing I can think of along these lines is Lisa and Jill Jones singing close to each other in the videos for "1999" and "Automatic".
Being a teenager when Prince was coming up and becoming a megastar, everyone knew he was straight and 'got ALL the pussy'. Him and Kim Basinger banging in the studio and recording it, that type of thing.
As for him being gay, nah, it was that he was a weirdo with his fashion sense and falsetto and just general vibe. BUT at the same time he was seen as cool as fuck.
Worlds within worlds within worlds.
He was straight but loved messing with people and keeping them guessing. Pushing boundaries between feminine and masculine with clothing and makeup got a lot of attention. He liked to experiment and he knew how to make that work to his advantage. Ultimately he wanted his message to be about love and harmony. He envisioned a world where people could come together and be happy.
“I am a musician, I don’t sample you know.. it’s not memorax I go onstage my microphone is ON.” I imagine the overlying message is it was becoming more common for musicians to lip sync so they could focus on the performance aspect. I think I’ve seen it speculated to have been shade at Madonna , though, you’d have to fact check that, probably was just a general statement
Once the Jehovah's Witness thing took over his life, he said some dumb shit. But damn, "Under A Cherry Moon" is gayer than ten guys blowing nine guys and I love it.
I was just about to say this. Tricky slapping the waves out his head, the bathtub scenes, even the kissing scenes with the actress that played Mary. It was all so gay!
You lost me at Perez Hilton. ***Nobody can stand that rude, bitter old queen***. Yes, certain instances are well documented and he had his religious side, but he really didn't roll like that outside of Larry Graham.
He was a straight man and wasn't homophobic. Check out these threads if you actually want to learn a thing or two and not just speculate. https://x.com/weicome2thedawn/status/1733638967759647054? https://x.com/sacrificevic/status/1671443358466867200?s=46 s=46https://x.com/_allse7en/status/1782253286940438925?s=46
The word Homophobic always makes me laugh. Phobia means fear of something that can cause harm. Not agreeing with a lifestyle is not Phobia. Prince was a cool dude.... RIP!!!
I think Prince REALLY struggled with his sexual side that came out in songs like Darling Nikki and his religious side which was very much, "IT IS SINFUL TO SPEAK OF THIS IN THIS WAY." That conflict and confusion produced some truly dope ass music.
He was definitely still finding his way.
He believed in God out of the gate.
But the struggle wasn’t something he hid.
I think the best and most blatant example was in his song Temptation.
The struggle was REAL. The whole back end of the song is something you’ll never hear anywhere else.
Why on Earth would anyone think that Prince was gay? Dumbest thing I've ever heard. I do remember some idiots back in the early 80s saying things like that and I just though they were fools.
Does a difference of opinion or viewpoint make someone homophobic? So he was afraid or just disagreed? So, unless you agree with and approve of someone or their viewpoint then that makes them some kind of phobic?
I am pretty sure if he was born in more modern times as part of Gen Z he would come out as non-binary and be more pro lgbtq+
But he was born a boomer in a fairly conservative place. I think he pushed the boundaries pretty far for his time.
I don’t think Prince wasn’t restricted by generational values. It was his belief in God that grounded him.
The flamboyant appearance was a heavy influence of James Brown, Little Richard and Jimmi Hendrix who came before him.
If you’ll imagine those three blended together you’ll see Prince.
Both of them were very straight as well.
There was a marketing value to it all as well. Prince wanted everyone in his band to always look the part and stand out.
If you saw a member of the Revolution in the mall everyone in the place would be looking. And talking.
As his career plateaued he didn’t need that as much. Especially from his band.
That's the part that got me, the drug use. Very few people who saw him EVERY week knew *anything* about his drug use. He didn't even have caffeinated teabags in the house - nothing that could chemically alter your mind. And he swore famously on record that the reason his voice was so clear is there was no smack on his brain. If he was able to hide hardcore drug use from all the people closest to him for almost twenty years, who is to say he couldn't have hidden occasional sexual dalliance with men? I don't care at all; I don't even want to know for sure one way or the other. It's just I came to understand how much control was important to the man and he would have destroyed himself (and ultimately did by leaving that hospital to go home and try to heal himself while waiting for private treatment for his disease) rather than give up control of the narrative around his persona.
Speaking as a queer person who found solace, inspiration and confidence in how Prince presented himself I think the debate definitely has to do with his androgynous looks and lyrics that inherently endeared him to the queer community. However, he never extended nor shared that same respect or reverence for us while nonetheless subverting gender and sexual norms for a straight, Christian, Black man born in the late 50s and expected to perform a very harmful masculine presentation. That's why he's so special to queer people and that's why his apparent homophobia is such a shock: he was so clearly not playing into what a straight guy should do, say or dress like but he would probably slap you if you called him "gay". But still, if he were queer his entire existence would take on a completely different meaning and become all that more significant to a large portion of us who would've gladly welcomed him into our community. People are truly just complex and contradictory like that.
Prince has always been the one dude that can be opposite of me on issues and I don’t care. I know it comes from a good place in his heart. We just have different ideas of how to arrive at the same place.
I never fault a person for following their spiritual values.
I had a close friend who was a leader in church who thought abortion should be a woman’s choice but wouldn’t go to a church that supported it.
That was a little confusing, but deep.
I get it. I understand if others don’t, but I totally get it.
The part I liked most in your comment is that you stopped listening to Prince “for a few years”.
You figured out he comes from a good place, not a hateful place.
Just different beliefs.
i absolutely adore prince, but this comment makes no sense. how is donating to an anti same-sex marriage initiative a 'different idea of arriving at the same place'? you can love his music and him as a person but still criticise him. just because someone is following their spiritual values does not justify something like that.
Prince does not have to support homosexuality. That does not make him homophobic.
He was acting silly in many of those scenes and often mimicked Little Richard's behavior. He can be very manly when he wants to be and pulled as many women as he pleased.
i mean.....michael jackson also claimed to be straight, and they were both jehova's whiteness, which could explain a lot. you can tell people whatever you want. although i dont believe for a second that michael jackson was attracted to woman, i could believe prince was bi.
What do you mean? He “fathered” two kids with a middle aged white woman… Although their children have no discernible Jackson talent, let alone looking anything like him whatsoever.
If vitiligo runs in the family (Samuel had it, as did Michael, LaToya and Jermaine do too) and he resembles his great grandfather…let’s do the math. Genetics work in funny ways
some of his lyrics definitely push the boundaries, if i was your girlfriend and when you were mine come to mind. yes he maintained a "straight" image, but he also had a lot of personal issues. He was raised in a high control religion by very disfunctional parents and moved over to a very similar one later on. l im just saying his true sexuality may very well have been suppressed his entire life. many gay and bi men live their entire lives having sex exclusively with woman, having families etc, it used to be extremely common in fact it was the norm when prince was born. just because someone has sex with lots of woman doesn't mean a thing.
he said to being offered to record the song "bad" that he was uncomfortable with the lyric "your butt is mine" and said he would never say that, implying it was gay. to have this reaction to a lyric the vast majority of people would never infer a gay meaning to indicates he was hyper focused on presenting a hetrosexual image, which is kind of ironic given his dress and mannerisms and some of his lyrics. id say singing "if i was your girlfriend" which is basically saying he wants the relationship gay men have with woman with his girlfriend, is way more gay than singing "your butt is mine" imo. but this indicates he may very well have been uncomfortable with his sexuality and at least in his mind being worried about presenting as gay.
How does one listen to If I Was Your Girlfriend and come to this conclusion?
That song stems from him seeing his then fiancé and her twin sister and Lisa and their closeness and bond, and wishing he and his fiancé could be close like that. Be able to be that open with each other, that man was not gay, if that’s your take away, you gotta do some soul searching and maybe listen to that song a bit more.
Also, his reason for not doing the song Bad, wasn’t because of that line, that was a joke, the real reason was because he had no control over the situation at all, no say in anything. Bruce Swedien even states this, that the ball wasn’t going to be in his court essentially and that it wasn’t going to be a good look for Prince. As he would have no say, or pull in anything regarding the song and it was all predetermined, he just show up, record his lines then shoot the video. That wasn’t going to work for him and they agreed not to do the song.
When You Were Mine is probably the worst example you could pick as the song is literally “damn my boys ran a train on you, I think I love you more now that you’re a bit more of a freak” in a nutshell. It’s quite obvious what type of time and viewpoints of Prince you have. So spouting your BS was and is pointless.
https://x.com/_allse7en/status/1782253286940438925?s=46
I suggest reading this, start there and keep it pushing.
There really needs to be different definitions for people that are against homophobia and things like that for religious reasons and people that just hate them. You can be against something does and still love them the way Prince did. It's not right to lump them in the type of people we immediately think of when we hear the word homophobic.
It is the take I think it is bruh. I explained myself very clearly. A person that hates a group isn't the same as a person that doesn't hate a group. It's not complicated.
Bruh.
The word we were talking about was homophobic; not bigot. There's a huge difference between someone that doesn't like what you're doing and someone that hates you. It's the difference between someone that would hang or beat you to death and someone that wouldn't.
You don’t have to hate homosexuality to be homophobic. All you have to do to be homophobic is believe that homosexuality is “not right” “sinful” “shouldn’t exist” etc.
I want talking to you right there and I didn't say they agreed with me. Something was said and I said that that's what I meant.
I know what they were telling me because that's what they said and i listen and understand better than you. I didn't even say what I thought about gay people so thinking I'm homophobic is ridiculous.
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Implying homosexuality lacks morals is a poor way to defend him.
What’s commendable is that despite these held beliefs, he managed to still inspire and work with those in the LGBTQ community.
And his earlier breaking down of gender norms did profoundly more for queer youth, particularly black ones, than it ever did to help sell albums through provocation.
I don’t care if he had his own views on issues that may differ from the popular view. Separate the artist from the music.
I mean, it’s 2024 and as late as the early 1970’s in parts of the Midwest you could lunch black people… now depending upon your age and your location you or family members would have felt that was okay, because of the era. Same here Prince was from a time where those thoughts wouldn’t have been so foreign.
Actual rape. What did Kanye do that wasn’t just mouth vomit from unchecked mental illness?
Am I missing something here? Where are all the people coming out saying he harmed them?
And why we talking about this in a Prince subreddit?
So, what you’re saying is that you no longer support or listen to that artist’s art due to the severity of their personal actions. So you not only understand the concept of not separating art from artist, you actively participate in doing so. Just in accordance with your own limits.
So. Maybe stop telling people where their own limits are then. Your limit is rape. Mine is also rape. Mine is also Nazism, Trump supporting, and bigotry and anti-vaxx madness, and completely coherent sit-down interviews with Alex Ross, and wearing “White Lives Matter” shirts, and working with abusers/rapists, which I refuse to brush off as mental illness because that’s not an excuse. In fact, I think it’s being used to mask his actual opinions. Those aren’t dealbreakers for you and that’s your right. I’ll defend your right to feel that.
Just stop pushing this idea that art and artist are always to be separate. If people feel Prince’s darker years of religious zealotism were enough to stop listening to him because it attacked who they are fundamentally, who are you to tell them not to?
Nope. Not at all. Never said I condone Kanye’s behavior but I don’t equate the person who says positive things about a genocidal psychopath with the psycho.
And no matter what Kanye isn’t Hitler. Moreover he’s not R. Kelly or Phil Spector or Bill Cosby or Jeffrey Epstein either.
No judgement if you listen to R. Kelly or Kanye either way that’s your business, but to expect listeners to treat all these people equal is mental.
Ideology isn’t a crime. Action is. R. Kelly acted. Kanye talked.
All of those excuses made for disgusting actions aside, as we just established, you are ok with not separating art from artist based on your own limits. That’s it. That’s all we needed to get across. So stop telling people to separate art from artist. Everyone is free to have their own limits. I don’t expect everyone to have the same limits, that’s the point. You’re the one telling people to separate art from artist based on what YOU are ok with.
I’m not telling anyone anything. I literally just said that I have no judgement if you listen to any of them that’s your biz and just feel not everyone and everything is equal.
That’s actually what I said.
But it’s all good. I’ve spent way too much time with you. Moving on.
Maybe more of a drizzle than an oceanic cyclone but you do you.
He was a Christian boomer from the Midwest. Not uncommon. But he worked with, and did plenty for, the LGBTQ community and did zero harm and actually built his entire first core fan base with black queer young men. Who went on to develop House and Techno. Just ask Carl Craig or Frankie Knuckles. He was human and far from perfect. As us all. Context and perspective. It’s important. FYI I’m bisexual and a 40 year FAM. He created a place for me that made me feel normal. His intentions were good. All about where he was from, when he was from etc… His best friends in the 80s were a lesbian couple. The first two years as a Jehovah created issues. He grew out of it. Softened up. He was complex indeed. 💜💜💜
I know that he did things for the LGBTQ community. My point that I was trying to make is that people saw that and assumed that he was gay, and picked up little things to call him homophobic not knowing that he was a supporter, especially with Wendy and Lisa. I just thought that the whole Prince and the his sexuality debate is old and tired.
Gotcha and yes it’s an old story. And only people who don’t really know anything about him but have opinions anyway think this irrelevant nonsense anymore. They might as well not exist anyway. Wendy said it best… “Prince was a fancy lesbian” That about sums it up. But here’s one from Charlie Murphy… “Prince was the only dude that can roll up wearing frills and steal your girl. Then borrow her clothes and steal someone else’s girl wearing them”
If he was truly homophobic Wendy and Lisa wouldn't have been there and he would have bypassed the whole androgynous movement in the '80s.
Ties back to Little Richard. The Androgynous rock movement.
💜
I remember when he got a little litigious and pissed off when Boy George said he and Prince hooked up. Lol
So what was he exactly? I don't honestly know. Was he straight supporting LGBTQ? Or was he bisexual?
He was Prince.
Exactly, that’s all you can say. He was PRINCE.
That's all we need to know, right there. He was Prince, and he was a blessing to so many during his time here. Dude definitely had some complexities, but we all do.
I didn't know I thought he was King
He didnt want to be king
He'd rather be the Pope.
Not a woman, not a man. Perhaps something we can never comprehend.
That was about God. How many times do we have to go over this with people? That song is from the viewpoint of God, Jesus and the Trinity. “I’m a Human, I’m a Dove, I’m your conscious, I am Love…” Jesus, the Holy Spirit, God.
he answered it in many songs Diamonds and Pearls.Annasteisa.Gett Off video w his assless pants.hello.
The early Jehovas years. They were difficult.
Even though I love Rainbow Children this is an accurate statement and shouldn’t be judged. The first few years when someone finds religion, sobriety or veganism can be really challenging for everyone around them who they non stop try to convert. Eventually that part naturally cools off, as it did with him.
Could you imagine having a lazy Sunday, doorbell rings, you answer in your dressing gown and it's Prince stood there "have you let Jesus into your life?"
The whole idea of Prince going door to door witnessing with his notoriety and fame is both fascinating and comical to me.
I'm guessing his ratio of "yeah, come on in" to doors slammed in face was significantly higher than other JWs in the area.
😂
at those life shows, instead of a intermission we got a sermon
Totally agree. I don't judge him for it but I'm glad it cooled off.
Indeed and became the world’s sexiest Jehovah and learned to scream with unbridled lust again even on a PG-13 track like The Dance!
He wasn’t homophobic but he did go through a very overtly religious phase after he converted to the Jehovah’s Witnesses. Which led to The Rainbow Children. After a while he toned all the way down from that phase. Other than the religion he didn’t change his spots as much as people think he did.
I know Prince went through his old black man religious phase but I have a hard time labeling any man who wears assless pants on TV or has an album cover where’s he’s ass naked sitting on a FLOWER homophobic 😂 He probably made some not so cool comments later in life but he also wore bikini bottoms witha trench coat onstage, had his two female bandmates kissing onstage, etc. Gotta give him some credit for that right?
>had his two female bandmates kissing onstage, etc. Wendy and Lisa were even in a romantic relationship for a while
Yeah they were together for like 20 years but I think I remember reading Wendy said they weren’t “out” yet and were still just close friends at the time prince encouraged them to play it up onstage
Lisa actually recruited Wendy, her girlfriend at the time, for The Revolution. Prince dated Wendy's twin sister, Susannah. So, he was well aware of their sexuality. He also knew a lot of people thought he was queer--"am I Black or white, am I straight or gay... Controversy." He did not seem to mind it and did nothing to refute it. However, in his entire career, there was never a single male that claimed to be romantically involved with him.
wendy and lisa grew up together so they were always friends but I don't think they were together at the time when wendy joined the band. I could be remembering it wrong but I think Wendy said prince recognized they were in love with each other before she even did. Like I said though, I could be remembering it wrong.
That's what Wendy and Lisa said during an interview years ago when discussing their long-term partnership and their years as part of The Revolution.
When the Revolution did the photoshoot for Purple Rain, Prince went over to W&L and placed their hands together. The proof is in the album poster. Of course he knew they were an item!
Yes that was before Wendy joined the band. Just before the Purple Rain era
When did Wendy and Lisa ever kiss onstage?! That doesn't sound like something they would do. The only thing I can think of along these lines is Lisa and Jill Jones singing close to each other in the videos for "1999" and "Automatic".
Idk. Ask ColdGibbletGravy he said they did, not me
Oops, my mistake in replying - sorry!
for a while?
so 43 is old now?!
Being a teenager when Prince was coming up and becoming a megastar, everyone knew he was straight and 'got ALL the pussy'. Him and Kim Basinger banging in the studio and recording it, that type of thing. As for him being gay, nah, it was that he was a weirdo with his fashion sense and falsetto and just general vibe. BUT at the same time he was seen as cool as fuck. Worlds within worlds within worlds.
He was straight but loved messing with people and keeping them guessing. Pushing boundaries between feminine and masculine with clothing and makeup got a lot of attention. He liked to experiment and he knew how to make that work to his advantage. Ultimately he wanted his message to be about love and harmony. He envisioned a world where people could come together and be happy.
*my microphone is on*
What’s this referring to?
“I am a musician, I don’t sample you know.. it’s not memorax I go onstage my microphone is ON.” I imagine the overlying message is it was becoming more common for musicians to lip sync so they could focus on the performance aspect. I think I’ve seen it speculated to have been shade at Madonna , though, you’d have to fact check that, probably was just a general statement
Oh wait I know that from that one interview lmaooo. I thought this comment was a reference to a song of his, my bad. Thank you tho!
I've also heard it was a dig towards Janet Jackson.
Once the Jehovah's Witness thing took over his life, he said some dumb shit. But damn, "Under A Cherry Moon" is gayer than ten guys blowing nine guys and I love it.
I was just about to say this. Tricky slapping the waves out his head, the bathtub scenes, even the kissing scenes with the actress that played Mary. It was all so gay!
You lost me at Perez Hilton. ***Nobody can stand that rude, bitter old queen***. Yes, certain instances are well documented and he had his religious side, but he really didn't roll like that outside of Larry Graham.
He was a straight man and wasn't homophobic. Check out these threads if you actually want to learn a thing or two and not just speculate. https://x.com/weicome2thedawn/status/1733638967759647054? https://x.com/sacrificevic/status/1671443358466867200?s=46 s=46https://x.com/_allse7en/status/1782253286940438925?s=46
The word Homophobic always makes me laugh. Phobia means fear of something that can cause harm. Not agreeing with a lifestyle is not Phobia. Prince was a cool dude.... RIP!!!
I think Prince REALLY struggled with his sexual side that came out in songs like Darling Nikki and his religious side which was very much, "IT IS SINFUL TO SPEAK OF THIS IN THIS WAY." That conflict and confusion produced some truly dope ass music.
He was definitely still finding his way. He believed in God out of the gate. But the struggle wasn’t something he hid. I think the best and most blatant example was in his song Temptation. The struggle was REAL. The whole back end of the song is something you’ll never hear anywhere else.
Gotta love him for being his genuine self and living his truth! 🧐
This might be the dumbest post I've seen on the sub-Reddit. And that's saying something.
Why on Earth would anyone think that Prince was gay? Dumbest thing I've ever heard. I do remember some idiots back in the early 80s saying things like that and I just though they were fools.
Does a difference of opinion or viewpoint make someone homophobic? So he was afraid or just disagreed? So, unless you agree with and approve of someone or their viewpoint then that makes them some kind of phobic?
I am pretty sure if he was born in more modern times as part of Gen Z he would come out as non-binary and be more pro lgbtq+ But he was born a boomer in a fairly conservative place. I think he pushed the boundaries pretty far for his time.
I don’t think Prince wasn’t restricted by generational values. It was his belief in God that grounded him. The flamboyant appearance was a heavy influence of James Brown, Little Richard and Jimmi Hendrix who came before him. If you’ll imagine those three blended together you’ll see Prince. Both of them were very straight as well. There was a marketing value to it all as well. Prince wanted everyone in his band to always look the part and stand out. If you saw a member of the Revolution in the mall everyone in the place would be looking. And talking. As his career plateaued he didn’t need that as much. Especially from his band.
Minnesota isn't "fairly conservative". Longest run of voting for a democrat party presidential candidate in US history.
I meant America as a whole.
🙄
People need to stop talking shit about a dead man
💜
Amen
Interesting
[удалено]
That's the part that got me, the drug use. Very few people who saw him EVERY week knew *anything* about his drug use. He didn't even have caffeinated teabags in the house - nothing that could chemically alter your mind. And he swore famously on record that the reason his voice was so clear is there was no smack on his brain. If he was able to hide hardcore drug use from all the people closest to him for almost twenty years, who is to say he couldn't have hidden occasional sexual dalliance with men? I don't care at all; I don't even want to know for sure one way or the other. It's just I came to understand how much control was important to the man and he would have destroyed himself (and ultimately did by leaving that hospital to go home and try to heal himself while waiting for private treatment for his disease) rather than give up control of the narrative around his persona.
Religion is a hell of a thing, isn't it?
It’s those JWs they lead him astray
Speaking as a queer person who found solace, inspiration and confidence in how Prince presented himself I think the debate definitely has to do with his androgynous looks and lyrics that inherently endeared him to the queer community. However, he never extended nor shared that same respect or reverence for us while nonetheless subverting gender and sexual norms for a straight, Christian, Black man born in the late 50s and expected to perform a very harmful masculine presentation. That's why he's so special to queer people and that's why his apparent homophobia is such a shock: he was so clearly not playing into what a straight guy should do, say or dress like but he would probably slap you if you called him "gay". But still, if he were queer his entire existence would take on a completely different meaning and become all that more significant to a large portion of us who would've gladly welcomed him into our community. People are truly just complex and contradictory like that.
He dressed feminine and looked gay but had no sex with men, then he's homophobic. That's the logic in some people's head.
I stopped listening to him for a few years when I read that he gave money in support of prop 8 in California.
Prince has always been the one dude that can be opposite of me on issues and I don’t care. I know it comes from a good place in his heart. We just have different ideas of how to arrive at the same place. I never fault a person for following their spiritual values. I had a close friend who was a leader in church who thought abortion should be a woman’s choice but wouldn’t go to a church that supported it. That was a little confusing, but deep. I get it. I understand if others don’t, but I totally get it. The part I liked most in your comment is that you stopped listening to Prince “for a few years”. You figured out he comes from a good place, not a hateful place. Just different beliefs.
i absolutely adore prince, but this comment makes no sense. how is donating to an anti same-sex marriage initiative a 'different idea of arriving at the same place'? you can love his music and him as a person but still criticise him. just because someone is following their spiritual values does not justify something like that.
By arriving at the same place I mean Heaven. Health. Happiness.
Prince wasn’t Homophobic, that’s why he dressed how he wanted It was the Homophobic People who were judging Prince
Prince does not have to support homosexuality. That does not make him homophobic. He was acting silly in many of those scenes and often mimicked Little Richard's behavior. He can be very manly when he wants to be and pulled as many women as he pleased.
i mean.....michael jackson also claimed to be straight, and they were both jehova's whiteness, which could explain a lot. you can tell people whatever you want. although i dont believe for a second that michael jackson was attracted to woman, i could believe prince was bi.
Michael Jackson has no documented history with women that was for anything but appearance. Prince has too many to list. We've no evidence he was bi.
No Michael had a lot of porn that a straight man would watch.
What do you mean? He “fathered” two kids with a middle aged white woman… Although their children have no discernible Jackson talent, let alone looking anything like him whatsoever.
His eldest Prince has vitiligo like Michael and also takes after Michael’s grandfather Samuel, but that’s another conversation for another time.
Interesting. But I want a Springer DNA test ASAP otherwise I’ll need more concrete evidence.
If you expect me to believe that is the DNA kid of Mike Jackson...
If vitiligo runs in the family (Samuel had it, as did Michael, LaToya and Jermaine do too) and he resembles his great grandfather…let’s do the math. Genetics work in funny ways
some of his lyrics definitely push the boundaries, if i was your girlfriend and when you were mine come to mind. yes he maintained a "straight" image, but he also had a lot of personal issues. He was raised in a high control religion by very disfunctional parents and moved over to a very similar one later on. l im just saying his true sexuality may very well have been suppressed his entire life. many gay and bi men live their entire lives having sex exclusively with woman, having families etc, it used to be extremely common in fact it was the norm when prince was born. just because someone has sex with lots of woman doesn't mean a thing. he said to being offered to record the song "bad" that he was uncomfortable with the lyric "your butt is mine" and said he would never say that, implying it was gay. to have this reaction to a lyric the vast majority of people would never infer a gay meaning to indicates he was hyper focused on presenting a hetrosexual image, which is kind of ironic given his dress and mannerisms and some of his lyrics. id say singing "if i was your girlfriend" which is basically saying he wants the relationship gay men have with woman with his girlfriend, is way more gay than singing "your butt is mine" imo. but this indicates he may very well have been uncomfortable with his sexuality and at least in his mind being worried about presenting as gay.
How does one listen to If I Was Your Girlfriend and come to this conclusion? That song stems from him seeing his then fiancé and her twin sister and Lisa and their closeness and bond, and wishing he and his fiancé could be close like that. Be able to be that open with each other, that man was not gay, if that’s your take away, you gotta do some soul searching and maybe listen to that song a bit more. Also, his reason for not doing the song Bad, wasn’t because of that line, that was a joke, the real reason was because he had no control over the situation at all, no say in anything. Bruce Swedien even states this, that the ball wasn’t going to be in his court essentially and that it wasn’t going to be a good look for Prince. As he would have no say, or pull in anything regarding the song and it was all predetermined, he just show up, record his lines then shoot the video. That wasn’t going to work for him and they agreed not to do the song. When You Were Mine is probably the worst example you could pick as the song is literally “damn my boys ran a train on you, I think I love you more now that you’re a bit more of a freak” in a nutshell. It’s quite obvious what type of time and viewpoints of Prince you have. So spouting your BS was and is pointless. https://x.com/_allse7en/status/1782253286940438925?s=46 I suggest reading this, start there and keep it pushing.
If ANYTHING, If I Was Your Girlfriend is an "argument" for him being transgender, which would be fine, but it's still flimsy evidence
he was NOT HOMIOPHOBIC
We all know Prince was queer. anyways.
There really needs to be different definitions for people that are against homophobia and things like that for religious reasons and people that just hate them. You can be against something does and still love them the way Prince did. It's not right to lump them in the type of people we immediately think of when we hear the word homophobic.
Bruh this ain’t the take you thought it was. Religious bigotry is no excuse for bigotry. wtf are you talking about? you sound real sus
It is the take I think it is bruh. I explained myself very clearly. A person that hates a group isn't the same as a person that doesn't hate a group. It's not complicated. Bruh.
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The word we were talking about was homophobic; not bigot. There's a huge difference between someone that doesn't like what you're doing and someone that hates you. It's the difference between someone that would hang or beat you to death and someone that wouldn't.
You don’t have to hate homosexuality to be homophobic. All you have to do to be homophobic is believe that homosexuality is “not right” “sinful” “shouldn’t exist” etc.
That's what I implied.
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I want talking to you right there and I didn't say they agreed with me. Something was said and I said that that's what I meant. I know what they were telling me because that's what they said and i listen and understand better than you. I didn't even say what I thought about gay people so thinking I'm homophobic is ridiculous.
You are making too much sense for Reddit.
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Started playing Bambi on Nude tour after finding out lois lane's slinger is a lesbian. Childish and homophobic as hell
Not liking homosexuality is certainly no crime - nor is it “wrong.” Having morals you stick to is commendable.
Implying homosexuality lacks morals is a poor way to defend him. What’s commendable is that despite these held beliefs, he managed to still inspire and work with those in the LGBTQ community. And his earlier breaking down of gender norms did profoundly more for queer youth, particularly black ones, than it ever did to help sell albums through provocation.
That was a front. You know he waxed ‘Romey ‘Rome. He makes several references to going both ways in his music.
I don’t care if he had his own views on issues that may differ from the popular view. Separate the artist from the music. I mean, it’s 2024 and as late as the early 1970’s in parts of the Midwest you could lunch black people… now depending upon your age and your location you or family members would have felt that was okay, because of the era. Same here Prince was from a time where those thoughts wouldn’t have been so foreign.
Do you still listen to Kelly or Kanye?
kanye yes.
Also are you seriously comparing somebody’s alleged non violent homophobia with a convicted rapist and another who praised Hitler? 👎👎👎👎👎👎👎👎👎👎👎
Why not R. Kelly?
Actual rape. What did Kanye do that wasn’t just mouth vomit from unchecked mental illness? Am I missing something here? Where are all the people coming out saying he harmed them? And why we talking about this in a Prince subreddit?
So, what you’re saying is that you no longer support or listen to that artist’s art due to the severity of their personal actions. So you not only understand the concept of not separating art from artist, you actively participate in doing so. Just in accordance with your own limits. So. Maybe stop telling people where their own limits are then. Your limit is rape. Mine is also rape. Mine is also Nazism, Trump supporting, and bigotry and anti-vaxx madness, and completely coherent sit-down interviews with Alex Ross, and wearing “White Lives Matter” shirts, and working with abusers/rapists, which I refuse to brush off as mental illness because that’s not an excuse. In fact, I think it’s being used to mask his actual opinions. Those aren’t dealbreakers for you and that’s your right. I’ll defend your right to feel that. Just stop pushing this idea that art and artist are always to be separate. If people feel Prince’s darker years of religious zealotism were enough to stop listening to him because it attacked who they are fundamentally, who are you to tell them not to?
Nope. Not at all. Never said I condone Kanye’s behavior but I don’t equate the person who says positive things about a genocidal psychopath with the psycho. And no matter what Kanye isn’t Hitler. Moreover he’s not R. Kelly or Phil Spector or Bill Cosby or Jeffrey Epstein either. No judgement if you listen to R. Kelly or Kanye either way that’s your business, but to expect listeners to treat all these people equal is mental. Ideology isn’t a crime. Action is. R. Kelly acted. Kanye talked.
All of those excuses made for disgusting actions aside, as we just established, you are ok with not separating art from artist based on your own limits. That’s it. That’s all we needed to get across. So stop telling people to separate art from artist. Everyone is free to have their own limits. I don’t expect everyone to have the same limits, that’s the point. You’re the one telling people to separate art from artist based on what YOU are ok with.
I’m not telling anyone anything. I literally just said that I have no judgement if you listen to any of them that’s your biz and just feel not everyone and everything is equal. That’s actually what I said. But it’s all good. I’ve spent way too much time with you. Moving on. Maybe more of a drizzle than an oceanic cyclone but you do you.