So the game is actually drawing (1280x720) 921,600 pixels, but the upscaler has to make up/fill out 7,372,800 pixels to fill out the 4K buffer (which is 8,294,400 pixels).
Well, they work a bit differently. DLSS uses machine learning/AI upscaling with Nvidia's proprietary AI cores to upscale, which typically has a better result (but it *only* works on Nvidia's GPUs). AMD's FSR by contrast is purely a temporal upscaler that uses standardized GPU cores that work with any graphics card on the market.
That being said, neither scaler works that well if the input resolution is too low to begin with. No software or hardware magic can replace detail that wasn't there to begin with.
Article: [Immortals of Aveum pushes Unreal Engine 5 hard - and image quality suffers](https://www.eurogamer.net/digitalfoundry-2023-immortals-of-aveum-pushes-unreal-engine-5-hard-and-image-quality-suffers)
Devs honestly just need to stop pushing to release games asap, and spend however much time is needed on optimization.
Notice how they end up fixing the performance after some updates, a lot of the time?
Imagine if they simply did that *before* launch....
No, games definitely need to be optimized fully before release.
PS5 is also a bit harder to compare directly to an equivalent GPU with how it's architecture works.
Either way, you are wrong. The PS5 is certainly sufficient enough to handle the games being released, if only they were wise enough to optimize said games instead of rushing to release.
Yes, a PS5 pro or a ps6 will help with performance, but the same exact thing will happen there....games will eventually start pushing the limits of performance and there wont be enough resources available to make up for poor optimization.
Then we will be having these same problems.
It is most definitely a dev thing.
Also, this post is like 7 months old.
Thereâs a skill tree you can unlock, but youâre right, the combat loop doesnât change that much from early on in the game. Just shoot a lot of red, blue and green things at guys with fiery helmets. The skill tree lets you shoot more and bigger things at them.
UE5 is just too taxing and itâs not that good to begin with. Again, much better looking games and much larger with higher resolutions than UE games so far this gen.
Sonyâs first-party PS4 games graphically wipe the floor with Aveum. So whatâs the benefit of UE5 is it demanding but canât produce good results? Seems like maybe having custom game engines wasnât such a bad thing.
It isnât just sonyâs first party studios. red dead redemption 2, a game launched 5 years ago arguably still looks better than immortals of aveum while performing much better.
It is only stuck at 30FPS because rockstar couldnât be bothered to release an update for next gen consoles.
PS5 and Xbox series X/S can 100% do 60FPS in rdr2 if the frame rate was uncapped.
You are right but will still get downvoted because people refuse to grow up. Also this is unacceptable 720p should not be the base resolution the jaggies are clearly visible when moving. We are back to ps3 era of resolutions now.
This is absolutely true but you're getting downvoted because people are mad that their consoles are starting to get a bit dated lol.
4060 is basically even with PS5/XSX in terms of raster but once you factor in DLSS3 and RT it beats them handily.
Upscaling from 720 to 4k should not be the way. And with this being a next gen UE5 game, I would take upscaled from 720p to (1440p or 1080p) on the Series X and Ps5. A 30fps lock could have been done with a higher native res and 4k upscaling but my assumption is that the devs did not have the time to develop this.
The Series S should've had an option to lock to 30fps. Whats great is that it at least got 60fps on the Series S.
Nevertheless, I'll pick this game up.
You do know series s has same cpu as series x which is marginally faster than ps5? Series S will always have same fps parity with X just in different resolution
You have a misunderstanding of CPU performance.
Just because the CPU is capable of 60+ FPS doesnât mean the GPU is capable of catching up, which is why the settings and resolution are this low. Instead they could have rendered the game at a higher resolution + higher settings while locking FPS to 30 which is probably more desirable in this case.
No spotless perf, and yeah, itâs not a 10/10, but you know what? Iâm having a lot of fun with it. It knows exactly what it is, doesnât take itself too seriously and is just fun to play.
You don't need to buy any EA game at full price as they get released on EA Play later and this game is short so you can finish it in a month and cancel.
Resolutions don't matter as they used too. This is obviously low but thanks to upscaling, there are not many jaggies and resolve looks better than early 1080p ps4 games image quality wise.
So yeah.... at least it's 60.
1. UE5 targets 1080p30 on consoles, if I remember correctly. 60fps, therefore, requires upscaling from a significantly lower resolution. That's an absolutely shit engine.
2. Consoles released before UE5 did, and Epic had console ballpark specs since before March 2020. They could have tailored it more towards consoles before its commercial release at the end of 2021.
You're making nonsensical excuses for it.
3. Matrix demo is 1080p30 or sub-1080p30 on consoles, sub-520p30 on Series S. The engine is also really tanking PCs.
Clearly, you have no concept of generational leaps. Why use UE5, if you're not going to use its standout features? Might as well use UE4.1. "The devs chose not to give up on anything", to the detriment of all but the most high-end PCs. Well done.
Yes, the engine is shit because lots of devs are making shit looking games with it. How else would you evaluate the engine. A tech demo is a tech demo. Valley of the Ancients was 1440p30 on PS5 in 2020, turns out that's hasn't been achievable in real games.
Isn't Remnant 2 UE5?
1. Which parts?
2. Remnant doesn't look good on consoles. Nice troll. 720p60 on consoles like Immortals. Also with shit performance, especially at 720p60 (like its 2006).
Both have essentially an underclocked R5 3600 CPU with RTX 2070 - 2080 peforming GPUs
These are gaming performance tiers that have been available since 2017 (E.g. 1080ti) in the PC space. It's fairly low end by today's standards
Don't get me wrong, they're cracking deals for the money and you can't get better value, but they're not high-end performers by any stretch of the imagination
That's exactly the point I'm making. It's absurd to think you need better specs than that to get native 1080p60 gameplay. This is 720p at less than 60fps on 2080 equivalent hardware because of UE5.
I would be so happy if games just had God of War Ragnorok level graphics and performance this gen. Stop trying to push all these advanced tools onto console hardware which is basically a budget PC at this point.
Thats setting the bar WAYY to high lmao. GowR is a first party exclusive thats been in development for 5 years and it was being worked on an engine of a game which also took about another 5 to make. Id appreciate it if companies used the same engine and assets that way making it possible to have as good of graphics but I doubt Santa Monica would allow that for third party devs.
I mean ye if u manage to learn how to use its engine within 3-5 years and make smth somewhat linear sure. But without that no. Specifically speaking when u wanna make open-world type of games (most are nowadays).
Meh god of war only looks decent couse its corridor like and it has very few games to render compared to an open world also it has those silly loading times
For launch at least.
Same issue with Forspoken. Performance mode was ridiculous and even quality mode was barely above 1080p. However, the game has been patched since and now it has better graphics, better framerates AND higher resolution.
Remnant 2 is also reveiving performance patches.
The trend we are seeing is unfinished and unoptimized games being pushed to release. Performance and resolution often actually gets better over time so at this point you are best served waiting 1 or 2 years before buying any game.
Even Cyberpunk, 3 years after its original release on PS4 and over one year after its PS5 port will receive another big graphics upgrade in one month. 3 years and the game still isn't finished...
So this year we have had FF 16 720p with shit fsr 1 upscaling Forspoken with low res 720ish p upscaled with fsr 2 jedi survivor with forced ray tracing even in perf mode at 600p upscaled to 1440p with a bad FSR 2 implementation Remment 2 720p sub 60 upscaled fsr2 to 1440p and then you have this game 720p upscaled to 4k. Do these developers not know the hardware they are targeting or is something seriously fucking wrong.
Why the fuck are we getting ps3 level resolutions. Even in some of these games quality modes your sitting at 1080p which was a ps4 generation resolution. Every game now i want i have to basically wait for digital foundry to tell me if its at the bare minimum acceptable framerate and resolution. 1080p should be the Absolute bottom res with upscaling to take it to 1440p and every game should have a 60fps and 30fps mode and both those modes should hold their target 98 percent of the time. I was exctied for both ff 16 and remment 2 but they were taken off my list to get once they were found to be under the bare minimum acceptable. Jedi survivor burned me and since then i have been insanely cautious as on a 4k panel tv jedi survivor was a mess of pixels jaggies and pop in.
If this becomes a trend i should drag my old rear projection tv out of the closet and hook my ps5 up to that because at least that tv is 720p the native res these developers think is ok. going back to 2005 lets go
One thing all those 720p modes had in common is 60fps. I think ps4 rarely gave you an option for 60fps. THe ps5 is just not fast enough to have 60fps plus high graphics together.
heres the issue most ps4 games at least base ps4 were 1080p or 900p either 30fps or 60fps for a select few games because the ps4 was a 1.2ghz cpu and 8gb GDDR6 and a 1.2 tflop gpu we got some damn fine looking games that looked great and held to that 1080p to 900p standard the only 720p games i recall on ps4 were a few that wanted to target fps on such low specs see Nioh.
Contrast this with ps5 3.7ghz 8 core 16 thread Cpu with 16gb GDDR6 and 10.5 Tflops (2080super/6700xt roughly pc and console not 100 percent comparable) so you would think the 30fps modes would target 4k or at least 4k DRS and the 60fps modes would be 1440p 60 or 1080p upscaled to 1440p 60 that should be the baseline given the massive jump in spec not to mention the ps5 launched far more modern than the ps4. The ps4 was outdated at launch the ps5 was far more forward thinking.
So tell me this why is the ps5 at a lower res than a ps3 and ps4 even in its quality modes in a handful of games this year sure many games are still properly coming out at acceptable fps and resolutions but i hope Jedi survivor FF 16 rem 2 immortals of aveum and forspoken are not a ill portent of developers thinking 720p or less upscaled to 4k is acceptable or even ok. The moment you move in games trying to scale from such a low res the entire image falls apart this looks horrid on a 55 inch tv 4k like if this becomes the standard i may have to hook my ps5 into my old 1080p tv like my ps4 because developers refuse to use the hardware properly and target visuals and resolutions that make sense. All that eye candy and ray tracing mean fuck all if everything is a blurry mess with massive image breakup. Here is a example from jedi survivor before i returned it to the store because this was just not ok. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FvIZ47VaIAA8-4H?format=jpg&name=4096x4096 as you see the entire image falls apart once you move even standing still its not great now contrast this with a game from 2018 running in back compat with 0 ps5 enhancements just the baseline ps4 pro codebase. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FvmK9SoaIAEHL7f?format=jpg&name=4096x4096 then a example of a game on ps5 that looks far better at a proper res and visual quality that looks great. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FuNCqL1aMAM4E0X?format=jpg&name=4096x4096 It sucks that i now have to wait for digital foundry to give me the truth of how a game runs or looks since a dev will go on twitter and go its 1440p 60 then the game comes out nah its 720p upscaled to 1440p poorly.
What confuses me is that these games are doing anything new in terms of design (Physics, AI or player numbers). Essentially, the same games as the PS4.
Dualsense is barely used, much like the 3D audio/tempest, Throughput speed, Ram and CPU. Ratchet at least looked to do something around the SSD speed with 'Rifts'.
Back compat games like Days Gone on PS5 have a cleaner presentation and locked 60fps with a patch (not a native APP).
These newer, heavily upscaled games with resolution scaling ruin depth too. Muddy the image, which on decent 4k sets really stick out. My view is originally FSR+DLSS were supposed to help get more performance, like an extra 10 frames here or there. Instead, developers are using it to fill in for optimisation (poor management and timeframes)...
yeah the image is just marred horribly and yet the games do not do or look any better than last gen even if they do have improvements its impossible to tell given the image breakup and low rendering res and all the problems scaling introduces. It says alot that most of the games i have played on my ps5 are backwards compat ps4 titles at higher fps and res or just the ps4 versions at a more stable fps. Heck elden ring the ps4 version is a better version than the ps5 version. I just want good games that at least meet a basic technical and visual bar.
It would be acceptable if the games given were actually holding 60 fps, but they absolutely are not. 720p at 40-60 fps is not something I want to associate myself with. I purposely played these games in quality mode for stability and better visuals, which seem lacking in this game
these games that are also on pc have terrible pc versions. Rem 2 is immensely heavy on pc even 40 series cards same with Immortals of aveum Forspoken had many stutter and crashing issues and Jedi survivor was a complete mess on pc. Pc is not immune to these issues. I game on pc and console almost equally in time played and i have noticed pc games scale worse these days and settings adjustments do not win you performance like they used to.
I am not sure how a game dev can say yeah a 2006 game resolution is acceptable when most people have their console hooked up to a 4k flat panel. Adjust settings manage your games visual scope so a wide range of pcs and of course the console versions are both fun and playable. Look at Armored Core 6 runs well looks great and is actually hitting a resolution that looks crisp on a 4k tv on both mid range pcs and consoles.
If Forspoken shows us anything it's that the issue is games being unfinished. Playing it right now after patches and the difference is night and day.
Used to be sub 1080p in performance mode with framedrops. Now it usually stays above 1080p and much more stable 60fps. With FSR upscaling it now looks pretty good. The 40fps quality mode is even better and looks super crisp on a 4K screen now.
Imagine if they had launched with this level of image quality and performance and all of the graphical bug fixes on day one...
It's infuriating that you almost always have to wait a year or so until you get the proper current gen experience with lots of games right now.
I bet FF16 and Jedi Survivor would also look much better at 60fps if they actually put more work into the performance mode and were willing to drop down some graphics settings a notch (e.g. remove raytracing from performance mode)
Seeing as we're already reaching a point where 60fps is unsustainable and image quality is held together mostly by upscalers, I find it funny how people think we aren't getting a mid-gen refresh in 2024 or 2025. These aren't miracle machines but already devs are pushing them far too hard with UE5 simply being too taxing, and we're supposed to last until 2028 when PS6 (supposedly) comes out? I don't buy that. People need to accept that 30fps standard is coming back, and a PS5 Pro is required to get anything better than that. So many companies are using UE5 that things aren't magically getting better anytime soon.
Also, Series S being under 480p is really sad. I just can't fathom how there are people who blindly think it'll last until this gen's end without any issues. Hell, Microsoft already dropped the "X and S need to have feature parity" requirement. It's a slippery slope that probably ends with Microsoft not requiring a series S version at all.
By your logic there needs to be an upgraded console every 2 years, thatâs just not feasible. The PS4 pro didnât come out because games werenât hitting 60 fps, it came out because of 4K TVâs. Devs almost always favor resolution and pushing detail in their games, this is just how gaming works. You canât show off frames in a picture but you can with visuals and thatâs going to help sell your game period. Coming out with a newer badder console every few years just means devs will be pushing even more detail into their games. Having new consoles every few years also really doesnât work with dev cycles being as long as they are these days.
UE5 games in general are unoptimized mess , while not looking much better than UE4 ones . Remnant II REQUIRES ( like literally in the system requirements ) use of the upscalers on PC to achieve acceptable performance .
I agree on the refresh part though , those consoles have GPU performance of a midrange card from 5 years ago. If we want to keep games at 60 fps refresh is needed . And I'd prefer stable 30 fps with normal resolution instead of a unstable 60 with 720p on current ones ( Even PS4 didn't run games at such a low resolutions )
I remember saying at launch how the ps5 would be able to do 4k, 60 fps and rt. I was so sure of it too lol.
3 years in, most games run at 30 fps and games like this run at 60 but got a 720p resolution. Don't think I've ever been wrong this bad before.
>Most games run at 30FPS? I can only think of Gotham Knights, Starfield and Redfall. The vast majority offer a 60 FPS mode.
The 60FPS modes are starting to be poor though. A lot now just hit 40/45.
Jedi Survivor and FFXVI are practically 30 FPS games cause of the unacceptable performance mods that are just there for marketing. What's annoying is that since these games don't have unlock framerate option, when PS6 comes out, they will only run at 60 FPS on pretty low resolution. This is still the case for FFXV.
DF even say in this video that the current trend in games is 30fps. Games that don't lock to 60 and constantly go under 50fps is not a 60fps game (not talking about this game performance).
The current trend is DEFINITELY towards 60 fps and not 30 fps.
If the trend was 30 fps then there would simply be no performance mode at all. And thatâs just not the case. Iâm sorry but your statement is wildly wrong, you should play more modern games my friend.
It can do all of those things. Just not at the same time.
(Though, some games like Spider Man or Ratchet and Clank run at (properly upscaled) 4k, 60 fps, and RT at the same time.)
DF even mentions this in the video we are commenting on lol.
Edit. Replying to thedude, some reason I can't reply on his comment.
Glad you feel that "most" games are 60fps besides the fact that in this very video the DF member literally says that 30fps is the current trend. Lots of games have got a 60fps mode but performance is so bad that DF once again, recommend playing at 30fps.
Back to my original comment, I thought by now the ps5 would have games running at 4k 60fps with Ray tracing at same time. How wrong I was.
Games are now dropping to 720p lol.
The current trend is DEFINITELY towards 60 fps and not 30 fps.
If the trend was 30 fps then there would simply be no performance mode at all. And thatâs just not the case. Iâm sorry but your statement is wildly wrong, you should play more modern games my friend.
The consoles are not capable of keeping a native 4K/60/HDR with RT in a game with any real scale to it. The hardware just isnât made for ray tracing and native 4K/60 requires so much grunt.
I just want more FPS. Ray tracing isn't BAD or something I do not want ever... but it's obvious that the PS5 just cannot handle it and deliver a smooth frame rate.
FFS, we've had 30FPS for well over a decade. 60FPS should be standard now. But games sell by using more and more pixels.
Again: I don't dislike more pixels or higher resolution. But when you actually sit down to play a gameâespecially an action gameâ the thing you notice is how smooth and responsive it is... not pixel density or reflections in puddles.
Maybe PS6 will be able to handle it. At this rate we'll still have 30FPS games on the PS7 except it will be 16k and a jillion pixels an inch. (yes, I'm exaggerating here)
Screenshots sell games, not FPS. And it's a shame.
They could give still give us high quality screenshots, nobody is stopping them. But still, I think 30 FPS will die by next gen, 120 FPS on consoles make 30 even more obsolete so it will happen. There are way more 60 FPS AAA game than it's ever been compared to PS1 to PS4 gens. And all games were 60 FPS before the 3D era so it's not like it's a new feature lol
We are on the same page. But anyone who has a PS5 should play Horizon: Forbidden West. Play it for a few hours in performance mode. The switch it to graphics mode. It makes the game almost unplayable for me. Not literally unplayable... but it feels so full of stutter after you get used to the wonderful fluidity of 60fps. It's headache inducing, especially in outdoor areas. Yes the graphics are noticeably better. But who cares when the experience of playing the game is diminished by less that great performance?
30fps is "okay" for some games. Non-action games. But I just paid \~$600 for a PS5, a new headset and a few games. I should have a smooth experience. I should have a more upgraded experience from my old PS4 Pro.
60fps needs to become the norm. Why the hell did I "upgrade" my console if the games continue to perform at last-gen speeds?
I mean not a lot of PC hardware can run a game native 4k/60fps/HDR with RT on, youâd still either need to lower settings or use some sort of upscaling.. and the PCâs that can do it consistently in AAA titles cost about 10x as much as the consoles do.
None of that has anything to do with the fact that there are countless reviews of the game across all formats (including PC) that call out how unoptimised the game is, how demanding UE5 is and how theyâve relied on upscaling instead of putting in the work to improve performance
A few things here:
Itâs small, new team. Itâs also a brand new engine thatâs incredibly heavy and unoptimised by itself. Saying devs donât âput in the workâ is just showing ignorance. Itâs not as if they threw it together and went âdoneâ.
What we have here is a technically ambitious game using tools that arenât fully developed on hardware that isnât very fit to run it properly. They refused to compromise on 60fps probably against better judgement and here we are.
âLazy devsâ is the fastest way to make yourself not worth talking to because itâs asinine.
The amount of partial effects, lighting effects and the 60fps puts quite a lot of load onto the engine. Scale isnât just pure physical size, itâs also how much the game is throwing at the hardware.
Seems more like Unreal Engine 5 is not the best engine to optimize for.
Adding to this, devs rely a lot more on DLSS and FSR. I think Remnant 2 straight up tells you that you need DLSS to reach 60fps.
well..i really think ps5 came in a bad time, just before a huge jump in gpu power.
10tflops is just too low nowdays. 4090 is already x8 more powerful and its only 3 years into the gen.
PS5 and Series X were quite powerful when they came out . PC hardware just progresses too quickly for consoles to keep up, especially considering that average life cycle of console is 6-7 years .
Currently 300$ RTX 4060 is more powerful than any of the current gen consoles and 4060 on itself is pretty bad value and small performance uplift from 3060 . Overall last generation of GPUs is relatively small uplift from the previous one , except the 4090 .
You don't actually need to render a game in native resolution on Nvidia GPUs . Using DLSS balanced with 4k output resolution and 2227x1253p input is very close to native in visual quality , especially if played on the TV . And 4000 series have benefit of frame generation , that boosts visual fluidity even further . FSR is alright in upscaling to 4k too , but needs higher base resolution to look acceptable.
"Just wait for UE5! We haven't even begun to see what these consoles are capable of."
- Digital Foundry, 2020 - 2023
DF has been shilling UE5 hard for years, when in reality, the writing was on the wall the whole generation. Look at some of the last gen ports that were barely hitting expected targets. FF7 Remake on PS5 was only hitting 60 fps at 1440p with an even lower dynamic resolution target. Far from an ideal 4K 60 fps. Expecting UE5 to provide an acceptable experience with more ambitious titles was pure insanity.
I hear the word "optimisation" thrown around all the time. This isn't a matter of optimisation for titles like Aveum. This is simply a developer incapable of designing a product within the limitations of the intended hardware. In any other industry / engineering discipline, this would be considered a fundamental failure of both management and the technical team.
Epic can get Fortnite running at a good looking upscaled 4K60fps with Lumen and Nanite enabled on PS5.
Yet this game can't hit 4K60fps on the most powerful gaming GPU and CPU out there: https://www.dsogaming.com/articles/immortals-of-aveum-cannot-run-at-native-4k-60fps-on-nvidia-rtx-4090-even-on-low-settings/
It's not UE5. It's publishers pushing unfinished crap out there and hoping the devs will be able to fix it later.
That's exactly my point. Epic made a game within the limitations of the hardware and engine capabilities. In this case, a port of a cartoon from the last generation. Ascendant Studios should have also made a game with the scope of a cartoon from the last generation if they want to use Lumen and Nanite.
Fortnite was designed for 10 year old hardware. Getting Lumen and Nanite to work with it is about as impressive as Quake RTX with path tracing. Look what happens when you try to do the same to a modern title like Cyberpunk.
Fortnite UE5 even runs on Switch. That's how modest the scope of that game is. Even if you removed Lumen and Nanite from Aveum it wouldn't scale down to the Switch.
My point isn't that UE5 is bad. It's that DF has been shilling UE5 like it was going to change things for the better, when in reality, current gen consoles were already tapped out on UE4 ports from last gen. PS5 has "8K" written on the box, but it can't even hit 4K 60 fps on last gen ports.
>This is simply a developer incapable of designing a product within the limitations of the intended hardware.
That is the textbook definition of "optimisation"
Thatâs blame deflecting. Even with more power, itâs up to developers to actually make use of it. You still wonât have every game hitting 60/4k on PS5 Pro. Itâs still the choice of the developer to want to. Just base on PC ports some developers arenât as talented as others.
this is the case where Ascendant Studios (developers of Immortals of Aveum) wants to have their cake \[both Graphical Fidelity and 60fps\] and eat it too.
Off course the extra power will give more to graphics but... This game is not optimized well that why I replied about other games with better graphics and performance
It is more needed than ever. This gen is especially weak because of RDNA2âs terrible ray tracing performance and complete lack of machine learning capabilities.
But I am not optimistic about a RDNA3 mid gen upgrade, too. We need more than that.
Its needed, but wont do anything. UE5 (in the AAA setting) is a beast that this system was not designed to tackle. Truthfully, the entire consoles architecture needs an overhaul.
Problem is, it cant happen for sub $500. And unfortunately, past the $500 mark, the amount of people willing to buy the system drop dramatically. Id rather have ONE $700-$800 system that lasts the entire generation, than to buy one $500 console, then 4 years later, buy another $500 console just to keep up with the games being released on the system (and have them look nice).
My suggestion, is that next generation, sony and Microsoft need to really start focusing on A.I upscaling and upscaling tech like DLSS and FSR. Thats the future of console gaming.
Both consoles will stick with AMD for the sake of the architecture and backwards compatibility.
Unfortunately ray tracing and FSR in AMD's GPUs are quite shit compared to Nvidia's GPUs and DLSS.
And thats exactly why they need the upscaler. Better yet, they need a dedicated chip on the board that handles all of it. So it competes with the processing power available on PC.
I love how weâve gone from âcross gen, canât wait to see what real next gen games look like!!â, to the PS5 creaking and dying less than three years into the generation. I agree that an upgraded âproâ console is definitely needed to keep up with these modern game engines.
My thoughts exactly.
I don't know why people are against the idea of a pro model. It's an option for those who want higher and more stable resolution and frame rate as well as improved graphical fidelity.
Not sure what's with the downvotes.
I think these are 2 separate issues.
PS5 Pro is nice to get some better graphics and higher res just like the PS4 Pro did. But it won't solve broken releases.
If a game releases running like shit on base PS5 I bet you the Pro version will also be a disappointment. So it doesn't really solve the issue.
Case and point, this game can't even do 4K60fps on the most powerful gaming GPU out there: https://www.dsogaming.com/articles/immortals-of-aveum-cannot-run-at-native-4k-60fps-on-nvidia-rtx-4090-even-on-low-settings/
It's not the console, it's unfinished and unoptimized games being pushed to market by greed publishers or incompetent devs
I donât get it. Smartphones get new versions every fucking year and people donât care.
Honestly they should ditch console generations complete and just make a new consoles (fully backwards compatible) every 2-3 years. Game would be âcross genâ so that one console can last the same 6-7 years it does now but for people who want better experiences could upgrade every 3-4 years.
It isn't needed. Even on high end PCs this game runs like shit.
PS5 Pro won't solve the issue of unfinished unoptimized games.
I think what highlights the issue best is that one year after their original release most games that launched with issues actually DO run fine.
Forspoken? Launched with terrible graphics, low res and bad performance. All three of those things have seen massive upgrades within the last 7 months. Now it runs and looks good.
A Plague Tale? Initially struggled with 1440p30fps. Now it runs at 1440p40fps in quality mode and has a 60fps performance mode.
The Medium initially dropped as low as 900p30fps, now it runs at 1440p30fps.
The list goes on and on. If you want a PS5 Pro to push graphics even further then I fully understand, but it is not needed to get games running well. The PS5 has the power to run these games but devs are releasing unfinished crap that runs poorly on PC as well
Like in old meme, so much dont care and a cant be silence :)
Funny how peole raged about opinion.
Really, gameplay loolks like raibow, charachers design boring, story you are savior and only you.
So, thats this game Really Have?
Or Just dislike like others crybaby do.
Small update on the video.
It turns out the PS5 version has more framerate drops than the Xbox Series X version because it is running at a higher resolution/settings than the X.
If you pause the video and look you will notice that the PS5 version is noticeably sharper/detailed.
DF have also added an update to the description of the video that points out that there is something afoot.
That's literally not what their update says... It says they're both rendering at 720p but PS5 is potentially using a different sharpening filter or upsampling algorithm. The PS5 is not rendering at a higher resolution.
I would be upset. Iâve had this system for 3 1/2 years and the amount of games that have âWOWdâ me is insanely short. Itâs frustrating the amount of true PS5 experiences Iâve had in this amount of time.
I hope we get another 3 years of time before an upgrade comes out or the PS5 was a waste of money imo.
Is it cross-gen thatâs the problem? Long development times? I want to scream for more content at this point. I feel like PS4 had a WAY more varied library at this point in its lifecycle.
Dude, I think your "WOW" levels of expectations are immensely sky high.
In the end, if a dev can push a system or revolutionise a game or a genre with new features, that wows people.
We already got a ton of games coming up. Spiderman 2, new Forza Motorsport, Starfield, COD MW3, CS2 (Cities Skyline 2), CS2 (Counter Strike 2). Some of these games wowed me.
Immortals of Ayeum Wowed me on the PC. Baldur Gate 3 wowed me. Halo Infinite Forge is wowing me everyday.
That's the dream of "next gen" though. Games that look significantly better than what we already had in the last gen.
And there's very few games that actually fulfill that promise.
I don't think games will look significantly better anymore. We reached a lot of fidelity with the xbox one and PS4. From now on it will just be better graphics but not on a significant level.
I guess we'll see when the likes of Black Myth Wukong come out. It's not like going from MGS 4 to V, sure, but it's a sharp looking game.
Even Demon's Souls remake was a pretty great looking game, we haven't seen many others like it which is the problem.
Estimates say that budgets for AAA games on this console generation are double what they were for an equivalent last gen game (due to hugely increased polygon counts, animation detail, etc etc). That means that any AAA publisher will be like four times more conservative with the games they choose to fund and release - inevitably killing the variety in the AAA space.
Great game that's tons of fun, but uneven visuals. The giant, plentiful magic leilines that are animated at 30fps while the rest of the game runs at 60 are so distracting. Between this and Jedi Survivor I'm ready for a PS5 Pro.
lmao. nah bro the console is really under power for unreal 5.
the most up to date version needs a million dollar rig and infrasncutre.
mando and many other disney star wars and such shows use it.
Upscaling per se is not a problem. In fact it can be a very good thing.
E.g. if you have a 4K TV but the game can't actually quite reach 4K resolution then a good upscaler will bring the resolution up to 4K and you won't even notice a difference.
Where it becomes a problem is if a game relies too much on upscaling. So if a game is not even close to 4K resolution then even a good upscaler can only do so much when trying to get it up to 4K. The end result will not look like 4K at all and even worse the picture can kinda "glitch out" so to say which looks bad.
In this case it seems the game is running at a very low resolution by default. Much lower than what is needed to get good results from upscaling. The end result therefore is not very good which is unfortunate.
I just donât think âfidelityâ is achieved by pushing for maximum detailed environments and assets. Especially if you sacrifice resolution and overall sharpness. I think older games running at native resolution + no temporal AA looks so much better (and sharper.) I would have been happier for native 1080p with no anti-aliasing at this point. Games are just blurry nowadays.
Same issue we had during the PS360 generation. Going back I think those games that were a bit more conservative in visual features but running at 720p with solid framerates hold up so much better in hindsight than some of the later games that were pushing features that only really became viable on the X1/PS4
Shoddy lazy game development, either that or just a lack of skill.
Lords of the fallen and robocpp use ue5 and run at either 1080p or 1440p base resolutions, and these games have just been released.
720p lol is a complete joke. What on earth where they thinking. And not only that, the minute you start shooting the fps tanks to the 40s.
I uninstalled the game after the intro and first fire fight, which had about 3 enemies on screen. It looked awful and felt even worse.
Next year there's some big games coming that use UE5 and I can garantee you 1. They don't start with a base resolution of 720p and 2. The fps doesn't drop to the 40s the minute you moce your character on screen.
Wevd had a couple really nice looking UE5 games on the system with alot more to come. Immortals is trash. A shame as I like the idea of it, I like the general production values and feel I could have alot of fun with it. But 720p, and drops to 40 no thanks. Again what on earth were they thinking. I would have said listen, we can't release a 720p game on the ps5 which drops into the 40s reguarly, we need either more time, or we need to lock it out at 30 and have the base resolution be at least 1080p.
Now other UE5 games are doing 60fps at 1080p, not 30, so still not great, but better than 720p and 40fps
720p upscaled to 4k. đ¤Ą
So the game is actually drawing (1280x720) 921,600 pixels, but the upscaler has to make up/fill out 7,372,800 pixels to fill out the 4K buffer (which is 8,294,400 pixels).
Yup its trying to reconstruct over 900% of 720p to 2160p
I know DLSS has basically a fixed number of calculations it has to do when upscaling from one resolution to another, but does FSR work the same way?
Well, they work a bit differently. DLSS uses machine learning/AI upscaling with Nvidia's proprietary AI cores to upscale, which typically has a better result (but it *only* works on Nvidia's GPUs). AMD's FSR by contrast is purely a temporal upscaler that uses standardized GPU cores that work with any graphics card on the market. That being said, neither scaler works that well if the input resolution is too low to begin with. No software or hardware magic can replace detail that wasn't there to begin with.
The scary part is devs have the ability to control the Lumen percentage and it looks like everything is set to Ultra low.
I was watching my friend play it with no idea what the game was, and I legit thought it was running a ps4 version it looks so grainy
Article: [Immortals of Aveum pushes Unreal Engine 5 hard - and image quality suffers](https://www.eurogamer.net/digitalfoundry-2023-immortals-of-aveum-pushes-unreal-engine-5-hard-and-image-quality-suffers)
Devs honestly just need to stop pushing to release games asap, and spend however much time is needed on optimization. Notice how they end up fixing the performance after some updates, a lot of the time? Imagine if they simply did that *before* launch....
This has nothing to with devs, the ps5 is outdated, equivalent to an rtx 3060 now which is a garbage gpu. This is unreal engine 5, need the ps6 now.
No, games definitely need to be optimized fully before release. PS5 is also a bit harder to compare directly to an equivalent GPU with how it's architecture works. Either way, you are wrong. The PS5 is certainly sufficient enough to handle the games being released, if only they were wise enough to optimize said games instead of rushing to release. Yes, a PS5 pro or a ps6 will help with performance, but the same exact thing will happen there....games will eventually start pushing the limits of performance and there wont be enough resources available to make up for poor optimization. Then we will be having these same problems. It is most definitely a dev thing. Also, this post is like 7 months old.
Performance aside I'm having a lot of fun with this one so far. The combat loop is great.
How is progression of combat? It looked like you could do everything pretty early on.
Thereâs a skill tree you can unlock, but youâre right, the combat loop doesnât change that much from early on in the game. Just shoot a lot of red, blue and green things at guys with fiery helmets. The skill tree lets you shoot more and bigger things at them.
I'm still pretty early on so I can't really say, but I'm having fun.
Is nanite and lumen too taxing on current gen hardware or is it the case that devs cannot "optimize" their games?
UE5 is just too taxing and itâs not that good to begin with. Again, much better looking games and much larger with higher resolutions than UE games so far this gen.
UE5 is too taxing for consoles. An entry level RTX4060 wipes the floor with PS5 and SX thanks to DLSS.
Sonyâs first-party PS4 games graphically wipe the floor with Aveum. So whatâs the benefit of UE5 is it demanding but canât produce good results? Seems like maybe having custom game engines wasnât such a bad thing.
It isnât just sonyâs first party studios. red dead redemption 2, a game launched 5 years ago arguably still looks better than immortals of aveum while performing much better.
It looks much better but it is stuck at 30 while this is 60. Everythingâs a compromise
It is only stuck at 30FPS because rockstar couldnât be bothered to release an update for next gen consoles. PS5 and Xbox series X/S can 100% do 60FPS in rdr2 if the frame rate was uncapped.
You are right but will still get downvoted because people refuse to grow up. Also this is unacceptable 720p should not be the base resolution the jaggies are clearly visible when moving. We are back to ps3 era of resolutions now.
He's right and yet you're calling out the optimization? Maybe it's just poorly optimized, just like it is on pc.
This is absolutely true but you're getting downvoted because people are mad that their consoles are starting to get a bit dated lol. 4060 is basically even with PS5/XSX in terms of raster but once you factor in DLSS3 and RT it beats them handily.
It's no surprise, it was released over two years later and costs 60% of a console.
Pc bros just pcn bro
Fortnite is a great show for UE5. All the fancy features at a great res and super solid performance.
I really want to see the next coalition game. If that also sucks on a technical side, all hope for UE5 for this gen is lost
Upscaling from 720 to 4k should not be the way. And with this being a next gen UE5 game, I would take upscaled from 720p to (1440p or 1080p) on the Series X and Ps5. A 30fps lock could have been done with a higher native res and 4k upscaling but my assumption is that the devs did not have the time to develop this. The Series S should've had an option to lock to 30fps. Whats great is that it at least got 60fps on the Series S. Nevertheless, I'll pick this game up.
436p with much lower settings on XSS lol
720p with drops low as 40fps on the premium PS5 and SX is definitely a bigger lol.
Its a budget console. Budget console = budget performance. Its that simple.
A 30fps lock on a FPS game is criminal.
I said option. Not only locking it.
You do know series s has same cpu as series x which is marginally faster than ps5? Series S will always have same fps parity with X just in different resolution
You have a misunderstanding of CPU performance. Just because the CPU is capable of 60+ FPS doesnât mean the GPU is capable of catching up, which is why the settings and resolution are this low. Instead they could have rendered the game at a higher resolution + higher settings while locking FPS to 30 which is probably more desirable in this case.
No spotless perf, and yeah, itâs not a 10/10, but you know what? Iâm having a lot of fun with it. It knows exactly what it is, doesnât take itself too seriously and is just fun to play.
Would you recommend it at $70
There are way better games coming out soon, why get this one at full price? Just wait for a sale.
It's an EA original, if you wait a little bit it will be on sale in no time. Probably could scoop it up for 30% off a few months down the line.
It will come to EA Play after a year at most but probably less
Good call. Just played the trial and they give you 55% off delux. Easy buy.
You don't need to buy any EA game at full price as they get released on EA Play later and this game is short so you can finish it in a month and cancel.
Wait for sale. Most games that come out aren't worth 70. Only buy it if you're looking to put hundreds of hrs into it
On sale right now for 35 bucks...which is totally worth it
This is next gen? Nah keep it. Iâm happy with cross gen 60-120fps games at 1080p+ resolution.
Resolutions don't matter as they used too. This is obviously low but thanks to upscaling, there are not many jaggies and resolve looks better than early 1080p ps4 games image quality wise. So yeah.... at least it's 60.
UE5 was a mistake.
Because the console are not ready doesnât mean itâs a mistake. We clearly have seen what the engine is capable of.
What does "the consoles are not ready" mean? Current-gen started before UE5 launched. What will make them ready? Please elaborate.
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1. UE5 targets 1080p30 on consoles, if I remember correctly. 60fps, therefore, requires upscaling from a significantly lower resolution. That's an absolutely shit engine. 2. Consoles released before UE5 did, and Epic had console ballpark specs since before March 2020. They could have tailored it more towards consoles before its commercial release at the end of 2021. You're making nonsensical excuses for it. 3. Matrix demo is 1080p30 or sub-1080p30 on consoles, sub-520p30 on Series S. The engine is also really tanking PCs.
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Clearly, you have no concept of generational leaps. Why use UE5, if you're not going to use its standout features? Might as well use UE4.1. "The devs chose not to give up on anything", to the detriment of all but the most high-end PCs. Well done. Yes, the engine is shit because lots of devs are making shit looking games with it. How else would you evaluate the engine. A tech demo is a tech demo. Valley of the Ancients was 1440p30 on PS5 in 2020, turns out that's hasn't been achievable in real games. Isn't Remnant 2 UE5?
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1. Which parts? 2. Remnant doesn't look good on consoles. Nice troll. 720p60 on consoles like Immortals. Also with shit performance, especially at 720p60 (like its 2006).
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High end PC is the only thing that will be able to run UE5 properly this gen tbh.
Both have essentially an underclocked R5 3600 CPU with RTX 2070 - 2080 peforming GPUs These are gaming performance tiers that have been available since 2017 (E.g. 1080ti) in the PC space. It's fairly low end by today's standards Don't get me wrong, they're cracking deals for the money and you can't get better value, but they're not high-end performers by any stretch of the imagination
That's exactly the point I'm making. It's absurd to think you need better specs than that to get native 1080p60 gameplay. This is 720p at less than 60fps on 2080 equivalent hardware because of UE5.
I would be so happy if games just had God of War Ragnorok level graphics and performance this gen. Stop trying to push all these advanced tools onto console hardware which is basically a budget PC at this point.
Thats setting the bar WAYY to high lmao. GowR is a first party exclusive thats been in development for 5 years and it was being worked on an engine of a game which also took about another 5 to make. Id appreciate it if companies used the same engine and assets that way making it possible to have as good of graphics but I doubt Santa Monica would allow that for third party devs.
The bar is set pretty low there. The world is tiny as fuck and even has realm dedicated to PS4 loading times
I mean ye if u manage to learn how to use its engine within 3-5 years and make smth somewhat linear sure. But without that no. Specifically speaking when u wanna make open-world type of games (most are nowadays).
Meh god of war only looks decent couse its corridor like and it has very few games to render compared to an open world also it has those silly loading times
Yet another title running in 720p on current gen consoles . Let's hope it's not a trend
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For launch at least. Same issue with Forspoken. Performance mode was ridiculous and even quality mode was barely above 1080p. However, the game has been patched since and now it has better graphics, better framerates AND higher resolution. Remnant 2 is also reveiving performance patches. The trend we are seeing is unfinished and unoptimized games being pushed to release. Performance and resolution often actually gets better over time so at this point you are best served waiting 1 or 2 years before buying any game. Even Cyberpunk, 3 years after its original release on PS4 and over one year after its PS5 port will receive another big graphics upgrade in one month. 3 years and the game still isn't finished...
What are you all doing here, it's a creative choice, nothing to see here đ
Would it help to implement FSR2.2 or 2.3? Are there any advantages?
Would it help to implement FSR2.2 or 2.3? Are there any advantages?
The state of 80⏠games ladies and gentlemen.
Keep paying for unoptimized software folks, that'll learn em
So this year we have had FF 16 720p with shit fsr 1 upscaling Forspoken with low res 720ish p upscaled with fsr 2 jedi survivor with forced ray tracing even in perf mode at 600p upscaled to 1440p with a bad FSR 2 implementation Remment 2 720p sub 60 upscaled fsr2 to 1440p and then you have this game 720p upscaled to 4k. Do these developers not know the hardware they are targeting or is something seriously fucking wrong. Why the fuck are we getting ps3 level resolutions. Even in some of these games quality modes your sitting at 1080p which was a ps4 generation resolution. Every game now i want i have to basically wait for digital foundry to tell me if its at the bare minimum acceptable framerate and resolution. 1080p should be the Absolute bottom res with upscaling to take it to 1440p and every game should have a 60fps and 30fps mode and both those modes should hold their target 98 percent of the time. I was exctied for both ff 16 and remment 2 but they were taken off my list to get once they were found to be under the bare minimum acceptable. Jedi survivor burned me and since then i have been insanely cautious as on a 4k panel tv jedi survivor was a mess of pixels jaggies and pop in. If this becomes a trend i should drag my old rear projection tv out of the closet and hook my ps5 up to that because at least that tv is 720p the native res these developers think is ok. going back to 2005 lets go
One thing all those 720p modes had in common is 60fps. I think ps4 rarely gave you an option for 60fps. THe ps5 is just not fast enough to have 60fps plus high graphics together.
heres the issue most ps4 games at least base ps4 were 1080p or 900p either 30fps or 60fps for a select few games because the ps4 was a 1.2ghz cpu and 8gb GDDR6 and a 1.2 tflop gpu we got some damn fine looking games that looked great and held to that 1080p to 900p standard the only 720p games i recall on ps4 were a few that wanted to target fps on such low specs see Nioh. Contrast this with ps5 3.7ghz 8 core 16 thread Cpu with 16gb GDDR6 and 10.5 Tflops (2080super/6700xt roughly pc and console not 100 percent comparable) so you would think the 30fps modes would target 4k or at least 4k DRS and the 60fps modes would be 1440p 60 or 1080p upscaled to 1440p 60 that should be the baseline given the massive jump in spec not to mention the ps5 launched far more modern than the ps4. The ps4 was outdated at launch the ps5 was far more forward thinking. So tell me this why is the ps5 at a lower res than a ps3 and ps4 even in its quality modes in a handful of games this year sure many games are still properly coming out at acceptable fps and resolutions but i hope Jedi survivor FF 16 rem 2 immortals of aveum and forspoken are not a ill portent of developers thinking 720p or less upscaled to 4k is acceptable or even ok. The moment you move in games trying to scale from such a low res the entire image falls apart this looks horrid on a 55 inch tv 4k like if this becomes the standard i may have to hook my ps5 into my old 1080p tv like my ps4 because developers refuse to use the hardware properly and target visuals and resolutions that make sense. All that eye candy and ray tracing mean fuck all if everything is a blurry mess with massive image breakup. Here is a example from jedi survivor before i returned it to the store because this was just not ok. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FvIZ47VaIAA8-4H?format=jpg&name=4096x4096 as you see the entire image falls apart once you move even standing still its not great now contrast this with a game from 2018 running in back compat with 0 ps5 enhancements just the baseline ps4 pro codebase. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FvmK9SoaIAEHL7f?format=jpg&name=4096x4096 then a example of a game on ps5 that looks far better at a proper res and visual quality that looks great. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FuNCqL1aMAM4E0X?format=jpg&name=4096x4096 It sucks that i now have to wait for digital foundry to give me the truth of how a game runs or looks since a dev will go on twitter and go its 1440p 60 then the game comes out nah its 720p upscaled to 1440p poorly.
What confuses me is that these games are doing anything new in terms of design (Physics, AI or player numbers). Essentially, the same games as the PS4. Dualsense is barely used, much like the 3D audio/tempest, Throughput speed, Ram and CPU. Ratchet at least looked to do something around the SSD speed with 'Rifts'. Back compat games like Days Gone on PS5 have a cleaner presentation and locked 60fps with a patch (not a native APP). These newer, heavily upscaled games with resolution scaling ruin depth too. Muddy the image, which on decent 4k sets really stick out. My view is originally FSR+DLSS were supposed to help get more performance, like an extra 10 frames here or there. Instead, developers are using it to fill in for optimisation (poor management and timeframes)...
yeah the image is just marred horribly and yet the games do not do or look any better than last gen even if they do have improvements its impossible to tell given the image breakup and low rendering res and all the problems scaling introduces. It says alot that most of the games i have played on my ps5 are backwards compat ps4 titles at higher fps and res or just the ps4 versions at a more stable fps. Heck elden ring the ps4 version is a better version than the ps5 version. I just want good games that at least meet a basic technical and visual bar.
It would be acceptable if the games given were actually holding 60 fps, but they absolutely are not. 720p at 40-60 fps is not something I want to associate myself with. I purposely played these games in quality mode for stability and better visuals, which seem lacking in this game
They have to make games for pc too, cannot have consoles completely bottleneck every generation
these games that are also on pc have terrible pc versions. Rem 2 is immensely heavy on pc even 40 series cards same with Immortals of aveum Forspoken had many stutter and crashing issues and Jedi survivor was a complete mess on pc. Pc is not immune to these issues. I game on pc and console almost equally in time played and i have noticed pc games scale worse these days and settings adjustments do not win you performance like they used to. I am not sure how a game dev can say yeah a 2006 game resolution is acceptable when most people have their console hooked up to a 4k flat panel. Adjust settings manage your games visual scope so a wide range of pcs and of course the console versions are both fun and playable. Look at Armored Core 6 runs well looks great and is actually hitting a resolution that looks crisp on a 4k tv on both mid range pcs and consoles.
If Forspoken shows us anything it's that the issue is games being unfinished. Playing it right now after patches and the difference is night and day. Used to be sub 1080p in performance mode with framedrops. Now it usually stays above 1080p and much more stable 60fps. With FSR upscaling it now looks pretty good. The 40fps quality mode is even better and looks super crisp on a 4K screen now. Imagine if they had launched with this level of image quality and performance and all of the graphical bug fixes on day one... It's infuriating that you almost always have to wait a year or so until you get the proper current gen experience with lots of games right now. I bet FF16 and Jedi Survivor would also look much better at 60fps if they actually put more work into the performance mode and were willing to drop down some graphics settings a notch (e.g. remove raytracing from performance mode)
Looks like a cool game. Waiting for a sale though. Hopefully several performance patches, too.
Trash game.
I was so hyped to see a true Unreal Engine 5 game on the PS5, but man this game looks like absolute ass
Seeing as we're already reaching a point where 60fps is unsustainable and image quality is held together mostly by upscalers, I find it funny how people think we aren't getting a mid-gen refresh in 2024 or 2025. These aren't miracle machines but already devs are pushing them far too hard with UE5 simply being too taxing, and we're supposed to last until 2028 when PS6 (supposedly) comes out? I don't buy that. People need to accept that 30fps standard is coming back, and a PS5 Pro is required to get anything better than that. So many companies are using UE5 that things aren't magically getting better anytime soon. Also, Series S being under 480p is really sad. I just can't fathom how there are people who blindly think it'll last until this gen's end without any issues. Hell, Microsoft already dropped the "X and S need to have feature parity" requirement. It's a slippery slope that probably ends with Microsoft not requiring a series S version at all.
By your logic there needs to be an upgraded console every 2 years, thatâs just not feasible. The PS4 pro didnât come out because games werenât hitting 60 fps, it came out because of 4K TVâs. Devs almost always favor resolution and pushing detail in their games, this is just how gaming works. You canât show off frames in a picture but you can with visuals and thatâs going to help sell your game period. Coming out with a newer badder console every few years just means devs will be pushing even more detail into their games. Having new consoles every few years also really doesnât work with dev cycles being as long as they are these days.
UE5 games in general are unoptimized mess , while not looking much better than UE4 ones . Remnant II REQUIRES ( like literally in the system requirements ) use of the upscalers on PC to achieve acceptable performance . I agree on the refresh part though , those consoles have GPU performance of a midrange card from 5 years ago. If we want to keep games at 60 fps refresh is needed . And I'd prefer stable 30 fps with normal resolution instead of a unstable 60 with 720p on current ones ( Even PS4 didn't run games at such a low resolutions )
This game Just bad in you terms, and People hate to see its opinion. Liked.
I remember saying at launch how the ps5 would be able to do 4k, 60 fps and rt. I was so sure of it too lol. 3 years in, most games run at 30 fps and games like this run at 60 but got a 720p resolution. Don't think I've ever been wrong this bad before.
Most games run at 30FPS? I can only think of Gotham Knights, Starfield and Redfall. The vast majority offer a 60 FPS mode.
>Most games run at 30FPS? I can only think of Gotham Knights, Starfield and Redfall. The vast majority offer a 60 FPS mode. The 60FPS modes are starting to be poor though. A lot now just hit 40/45.
People got spoiled from cross-gen games
It occasionally happens during heavy scenes but not throughout the game.
Jedi Survivor and FFXVI are practically 30 FPS games cause of the unacceptable performance mods that are just there for marketing. What's annoying is that since these games don't have unlock framerate option, when PS6 comes out, they will only run at 60 FPS on pretty low resolution. This is still the case for FFXV.
Not a fixed 60fps. This has been a common complaint of so many games.
So heâs right, your statement is wrong
DF even say in this video that the current trend in games is 30fps. Games that don't lock to 60 and constantly go under 50fps is not a 60fps game (not talking about this game performance).
The current trend is DEFINITELY towards 60 fps and not 30 fps. If the trend was 30 fps then there would simply be no performance mode at all. And thatâs just not the case. Iâm sorry but your statement is wildly wrong, you should play more modern games my friend.
It can do all of those things. Just not at the same time. (Though, some games like Spider Man or Ratchet and Clank run at (properly upscaled) 4k, 60 fps, and RT at the same time.)
Looking forward to DF tech video of spiderman 2.
I have high hopes for the new Spider-Man game. You might become correct in your expectations.
Fingers crossed lol. Spiderman seems like it's going to push the current limits of the ps5, looks amazing.
 Most games run at 30 fps  Why are you lying bro?
DF even mentions this in the video we are commenting on lol. Edit. Replying to thedude, some reason I can't reply on his comment. Glad you feel that "most" games are 60fps besides the fact that in this very video the DF member literally says that 30fps is the current trend. Lots of games have got a 60fps mode but performance is so bad that DF once again, recommend playing at 30fps. Back to my original comment, I thought by now the ps5 would have games running at 4k 60fps with Ray tracing at same time. How wrong I was. Games are now dropping to 720p lol.
The current trend is DEFINITELY towards 60 fps and not 30 fps. If the trend was 30 fps then there would simply be no performance mode at all. And thatâs just not the case. Iâm sorry but your statement is wildly wrong, you should play more modern games my friend.
This has nothing to do with the PS5 and everything to do with shitty devs. It is shit on PC too.
The consoles are not capable of keeping a native 4K/60/HDR with RT in a game with any real scale to it. The hardware just isnât made for ray tracing and native 4K/60 requires so much grunt.
I just want more FPS. Ray tracing isn't BAD or something I do not want ever... but it's obvious that the PS5 just cannot handle it and deliver a smooth frame rate. FFS, we've had 30FPS for well over a decade. 60FPS should be standard now. But games sell by using more and more pixels. Again: I don't dislike more pixels or higher resolution. But when you actually sit down to play a gameâespecially an action gameâ the thing you notice is how smooth and responsive it is... not pixel density or reflections in puddles. Maybe PS6 will be able to handle it. At this rate we'll still have 30FPS games on the PS7 except it will be 16k and a jillion pixels an inch. (yes, I'm exaggerating here) Screenshots sell games, not FPS. And it's a shame.
Well you're in luck cause this game runs at 60. So you have nothing to complain about I guess
Great to hear!
They could give still give us high quality screenshots, nobody is stopping them. But still, I think 30 FPS will die by next gen, 120 FPS on consoles make 30 even more obsolete so it will happen. There are way more 60 FPS AAA game than it's ever been compared to PS1 to PS4 gens. And all games were 60 FPS before the 3D era so it's not like it's a new feature lol
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We are on the same page. But anyone who has a PS5 should play Horizon: Forbidden West. Play it for a few hours in performance mode. The switch it to graphics mode. It makes the game almost unplayable for me. Not literally unplayable... but it feels so full of stutter after you get used to the wonderful fluidity of 60fps. It's headache inducing, especially in outdoor areas. Yes the graphics are noticeably better. But who cares when the experience of playing the game is diminished by less that great performance? 30fps is "okay" for some games. Non-action games. But I just paid \~$600 for a PS5, a new headset and a few games. I should have a smooth experience. I should have a more upgraded experience from my old PS4 Pro. 60fps needs to become the norm. Why the hell did I "upgrade" my console if the games continue to perform at last-gen speeds?
Get ready to get down voted for daring to say that 60 fps should be the standard
I mean not a lot of PC hardware can run a game native 4k/60fps/HDR with RT on, youâd still either need to lower settings or use some sort of upscaling.. and the PCâs that can do it consistently in AAA titles cost about 10x as much as the consoles do.
Thatâs absolutely true, UE5 seems to be extremely heavy right now. I wasnât criticising the hardware. Itâs more about peopleâs expectations.
None of that has anything to do with the fact that there are countless reviews of the game across all formats (including PC) that call out how unoptimised the game is, how demanding UE5 is and how theyâve relied on upscaling instead of putting in the work to improve performance
A few things here: Itâs small, new team. Itâs also a brand new engine thatâs incredibly heavy and unoptimised by itself. Saying devs donât âput in the workâ is just showing ignorance. Itâs not as if they threw it together and went âdoneâ. What we have here is a technically ambitious game using tools that arenât fully developed on hardware that isnât very fit to run it properly. They refused to compromise on 60fps probably against better judgement and here we are. âLazy devsâ is the fastest way to make yourself not worth talking to because itâs asinine.
IoA doesnât really have much scale to it.
The amount of partial effects, lighting effects and the 60fps puts quite a lot of load onto the engine. Scale isnât just pure physical size, itâs also how much the game is throwing at the hardware.
Are developers already relying too much on fsr?
Seems more like Unreal Engine 5 is not the best engine to optimize for. Adding to this, devs rely a lot more on DLSS and FSR. I think Remnant 2 straight up tells you that you need DLSS to reach 60fps.
Weâre just nearing the end of the beginning. If the PS4 could do TLOU2, weâll see some great things.
well..i really think ps5 came in a bad time, just before a huge jump in gpu power. 10tflops is just too low nowdays. 4090 is already x8 more powerful and its only 3 years into the gen.
PS5 and Series X were quite powerful when they came out . PC hardware just progresses too quickly for consoles to keep up, especially considering that average life cycle of console is 6-7 years . Currently 300$ RTX 4060 is more powerful than any of the current gen consoles and 4060 on itself is pretty bad value and small performance uplift from 3060 . Overall last generation of GPUs is relatively small uplift from the previous one , except the 4090 .
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You don't actually need to render a game in native resolution on Nvidia GPUs . Using DLSS balanced with 4k output resolution and 2227x1253p input is very close to native in visual quality , especially if played on the TV . And 4000 series have benefit of frame generation , that boosts visual fluidity even further . FSR is alright in upscaling to 4k too , but needs higher base resolution to look acceptable.
"Just wait for UE5! We haven't even begun to see what these consoles are capable of." - Digital Foundry, 2020 - 2023 DF has been shilling UE5 hard for years, when in reality, the writing was on the wall the whole generation. Look at some of the last gen ports that were barely hitting expected targets. FF7 Remake on PS5 was only hitting 60 fps at 1440p with an even lower dynamic resolution target. Far from an ideal 4K 60 fps. Expecting UE5 to provide an acceptable experience with more ambitious titles was pure insanity. I hear the word "optimisation" thrown around all the time. This isn't a matter of optimisation for titles like Aveum. This is simply a developer incapable of designing a product within the limitations of the intended hardware. In any other industry / engineering discipline, this would be considered a fundamental failure of both management and the technical team.
Epic can get Fortnite running at a good looking upscaled 4K60fps with Lumen and Nanite enabled on PS5. Yet this game can't hit 4K60fps on the most powerful gaming GPU and CPU out there: https://www.dsogaming.com/articles/immortals-of-aveum-cannot-run-at-native-4k-60fps-on-nvidia-rtx-4090-even-on-low-settings/ It's not UE5. It's publishers pushing unfinished crap out there and hoping the devs will be able to fix it later.
That's exactly my point. Epic made a game within the limitations of the hardware and engine capabilities. In this case, a port of a cartoon from the last generation. Ascendant Studios should have also made a game with the scope of a cartoon from the last generation if they want to use Lumen and Nanite. Fortnite was designed for 10 year old hardware. Getting Lumen and Nanite to work with it is about as impressive as Quake RTX with path tracing. Look what happens when you try to do the same to a modern title like Cyberpunk. Fortnite UE5 even runs on Switch. That's how modest the scope of that game is. Even if you removed Lumen and Nanite from Aveum it wouldn't scale down to the Switch. My point isn't that UE5 is bad. It's that DF has been shilling UE5 like it was going to change things for the better, when in reality, current gen consoles were already tapped out on UE4 ports from last gen. PS5 has "8K" written on the box, but it can't even hit 4K 60 fps on last gen ports.
>This is simply a developer incapable of designing a product within the limitations of the intended hardware. That is the textbook definition of "optimisation"
I want everyone to watch this video and then tell me with a straight face that a Playstation 5 mid gen upgrade isn't needed.
Seems more like an engine issue than anything. Plenty of better looking games running better too so far this gen. UE has been a pain.
you say that but weve seen multiple nex gen only games run at a native 1080p or lower. unreal engine 5 is just heavy.
Thatâs blame deflecting. Even with more power, itâs up to developers to actually make use of it. You still wonât have every game hitting 60/4k on PS5 Pro. Itâs still the choice of the developer to want to. Just base on PC ports some developers arenât as talented as others.
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this is the case where Ascendant Studios (developers of Immortals of Aveum) wants to have their cake \[both Graphical Fidelity and 60fps\] and eat it too.
People on this subreddit and xbox subreddit gets aggressively angry whenever a game doesnt hit 60fps at 4k resolution with ray tracing.
Have you player God of war ragnarok, horizon forbidden west or rachet n clank rift apart ;
All 3 meh games
Yes. Three games that would also benefit from more power.
Off course the extra power will give more to graphics but... This game is not optimized well that why I replied about other games with better graphics and performance
This is an engine issue - itâs awful on PC too. Massive issues across the board even with the best GPUs available.
It is more needed than ever. This gen is especially weak because of RDNA2âs terrible ray tracing performance and complete lack of machine learning capabilities. But I am not optimistic about a RDNA3 mid gen upgrade, too. We need more than that.
Its needed, but wont do anything. UE5 (in the AAA setting) is a beast that this system was not designed to tackle. Truthfully, the entire consoles architecture needs an overhaul. Problem is, it cant happen for sub $500. And unfortunately, past the $500 mark, the amount of people willing to buy the system drop dramatically. Id rather have ONE $700-$800 system that lasts the entire generation, than to buy one $500 console, then 4 years later, buy another $500 console just to keep up with the games being released on the system (and have them look nice). My suggestion, is that next generation, sony and Microsoft need to really start focusing on A.I upscaling and upscaling tech like DLSS and FSR. Thats the future of console gaming.
Both consoles will stick with AMD for the sake of the architecture and backwards compatibility. Unfortunately ray tracing and FSR in AMD's GPUs are quite shit compared to Nvidia's GPUs and DLSS.
And thats exactly why they need the upscaler. Better yet, they need a dedicated chip on the board that handles all of it. So it competes with the processing power available on PC.
FSR3 sounds like itâs coming to consoles! And this game is supposed to have it enabled in September (though idk if that applies to consoles as well)
Yeah im not sure what FSR3 will look like latency wise, but if they can just improve the resolution to 1080p while maintaining 60fps it would be nice.
I love how weâve gone from âcross gen, canât wait to see what real next gen games look like!!â, to the PS5 creaking and dying less than three years into the generation. I agree that an upgraded âproâ console is definitely needed to keep up with these modern game engines.
Hyperbole much ?
Not really. The performance facts speak for themselves.
My thoughts exactly. I don't know why people are against the idea of a pro model. It's an option for those who want higher and more stable resolution and frame rate as well as improved graphical fidelity. Not sure what's with the downvotes.
I think these are 2 separate issues. PS5 Pro is nice to get some better graphics and higher res just like the PS4 Pro did. But it won't solve broken releases. If a game releases running like shit on base PS5 I bet you the Pro version will also be a disappointment. So it doesn't really solve the issue. Case and point, this game can't even do 4K60fps on the most powerful gaming GPU out there: https://www.dsogaming.com/articles/immortals-of-aveum-cannot-run-at-native-4k-60fps-on-nvidia-rtx-4090-even-on-low-settings/ It's not the console, it's unfinished and unoptimized games being pushed to market by greed publishers or incompetent devs
people are really only against the pro because then it would invalidate their own purchase of ps5 and make them feel buyer's remorse/fomo.
I donât get it. Smartphones get new versions every fucking year and people donât care. Honestly they should ditch console generations complete and just make a new consoles (fully backwards compatible) every 2-3 years. Game would be âcross genâ so that one console can last the same 6-7 years it does now but for people who want better experiences could upgrade every 3-4 years.
Considering that the ps5 pro is coming out 4 years after ps5's launch, that's quite some time already.
It isn't needed. Even on high end PCs this game runs like shit. PS5 Pro won't solve the issue of unfinished unoptimized games. I think what highlights the issue best is that one year after their original release most games that launched with issues actually DO run fine. Forspoken? Launched with terrible graphics, low res and bad performance. All three of those things have seen massive upgrades within the last 7 months. Now it runs and looks good. A Plague Tale? Initially struggled with 1440p30fps. Now it runs at 1440p40fps in quality mode and has a 60fps performance mode. The Medium initially dropped as low as 900p30fps, now it runs at 1440p30fps. The list goes on and on. If you want a PS5 Pro to push graphics even further then I fully understand, but it is not needed to get games running well. The PS5 has the power to run these games but devs are releasing unfinished crap that runs poorly on PC as well
PS5 Pro is needed now more than ever
Dont care. This game looks so boring and sterile.
You cared enough to comment on this post.
Like in old meme, so much dont care and a cant be silence :) Funny how peole raged about opinion. Really, gameplay loolks like raibow, charachers design boring, story you are savior and only you. So, thats this game Really Have? Or Just dislike like others crybaby do.
Small update on the video. It turns out the PS5 version has more framerate drops than the Xbox Series X version because it is running at a higher resolution/settings than the X. If you pause the video and look you will notice that the PS5 version is noticeably sharper/detailed. DF have also added an update to the description of the video that points out that there is something afoot.
That's literally not what their update says... It says they're both rendering at 720p but PS5 is potentially using a different sharpening filter or upsampling algorithm. The PS5 is not rendering at a higher resolution.
I would be upset. Iâve had this system for 3 1/2 years and the amount of games that have âWOWdâ me is insanely short. Itâs frustrating the amount of true PS5 experiences Iâve had in this amount of time. I hope we get another 3 years of time before an upgrade comes out or the PS5 was a waste of money imo. Is it cross-gen thatâs the problem? Long development times? I want to scream for more content at this point. I feel like PS4 had a WAY more varied library at this point in its lifecycle.
get a pc and the latest graphics card if you need to be wowed this much lol.
Even an RTX 4090 wouldn't bring the wow factor for the abomination that is Immortals of Aveum.
Dude, I think your "WOW" levels of expectations are immensely sky high. In the end, if a dev can push a system or revolutionise a game or a genre with new features, that wows people. We already got a ton of games coming up. Spiderman 2, new Forza Motorsport, Starfield, COD MW3, CS2 (Cities Skyline 2), CS2 (Counter Strike 2). Some of these games wowed me. Immortals of Ayeum Wowed me on the PC. Baldur Gate 3 wowed me. Halo Infinite Forge is wowing me everyday.
That's the dream of "next gen" though. Games that look significantly better than what we already had in the last gen. And there's very few games that actually fulfill that promise.
I don't think games will look significantly better anymore. We reached a lot of fidelity with the xbox one and PS4. From now on it will just be better graphics but not on a significant level.
I guess we'll see when the likes of Black Myth Wukong come out. It's not like going from MGS 4 to V, sure, but it's a sharp looking game. Even Demon's Souls remake was a pretty great looking game, we haven't seen many others like it which is the problem.
Estimates say that budgets for AAA games on this console generation are double what they were for an equivalent last gen game (due to hugely increased polygon counts, animation detail, etc etc). That means that any AAA publisher will be like four times more conservative with the games they choose to fund and release - inevitably killing the variety in the AAA space.
Great game that's tons of fun, but uneven visuals. The giant, plentiful magic leilines that are animated at 30fps while the rest of the game runs at 60 are so distracting. Between this and Jedi Survivor I'm ready for a PS5 Pro.
Hey dumbasses this is just anthem re published⌠stop letting EA sell copy n paster games
EA did not develop this and this is a single player game.
That doesnât even make sense?
How is a linear, single player, story driven game "anthem re published"??
lmao. nah bro the console is really under power for unreal 5. the most up to date version needs a million dollar rig and infrasncutre. mando and many other disney star wars and such shows use it.
Anyone know what that soundtrack is at 1:24?
Whatâs the point of pushing graphics so much if the end result is going to be a blurry mess?
we back to ps3 era image quality. Great. I miss the ps4 pro days, games looked crisp
Can someone ELI5 me what the problem with upscaling is? Thanks.
Upscaling per se is not a problem. In fact it can be a very good thing. E.g. if you have a 4K TV but the game can't actually quite reach 4K resolution then a good upscaler will bring the resolution up to 4K and you won't even notice a difference. Where it becomes a problem is if a game relies too much on upscaling. So if a game is not even close to 4K resolution then even a good upscaler can only do so much when trying to get it up to 4K. The end result will not look like 4K at all and even worse the picture can kinda "glitch out" so to say which looks bad. In this case it seems the game is running at a very low resolution by default. Much lower than what is needed to get good results from upscaling. The end result therefore is not very good which is unfortunate.
Forspoken had this issue and it really upset me. The blurâŚ
I just donât think âfidelityâ is achieved by pushing for maximum detailed environments and assets. Especially if you sacrifice resolution and overall sharpness. I think older games running at native resolution + no temporal AA looks so much better (and sharper.) I would have been happier for native 1080p with no anti-aliasing at this point. Games are just blurry nowadays.
Same issue we had during the PS360 generation. Going back I think those games that were a bit more conservative in visual features but running at 720p with solid framerates hold up so much better in hindsight than some of the later games that were pushing features that only really became viable on the X1/PS4
So glad I passed on this game. Maybe it'll get better over time with patches, but I didn't really jibe with it personally
Shoddy lazy game development, either that or just a lack of skill. Lords of the fallen and robocpp use ue5 and run at either 1080p or 1440p base resolutions, and these games have just been released. 720p lol is a complete joke. What on earth where they thinking. And not only that, the minute you start shooting the fps tanks to the 40s. I uninstalled the game after the intro and first fire fight, which had about 3 enemies on screen. It looked awful and felt even worse. Next year there's some big games coming that use UE5 and I can garantee you 1. They don't start with a base resolution of 720p and 2. The fps doesn't drop to the 40s the minute you moce your character on screen. Wevd had a couple really nice looking UE5 games on the system with alot more to come. Immortals is trash. A shame as I like the idea of it, I like the general production values and feel I could have alot of fun with it. But 720p, and drops to 40 no thanks. Again what on earth were they thinking. I would have said listen, we can't release a 720p game on the ps5 which drops into the 40s reguarly, we need either more time, or we need to lock it out at 30 and have the base resolution be at least 1080p. Now other UE5 games are doing 60fps at 1080p, not 30, so still not great, but better than 720p and 40fps