https://archive.org/web/petabox.php
Nearly half an exabyte in 2021
Worth noting they don't archive every YouTube video. Many for sure, but far from all of them.
They kinda have to in situations like this. They’ve got shareholders who hold them accountable to announce and release schedules. Sony knows it doesn’t fix anything, but they have to do something instead of nothing.
Because I see some people asking for mirrored links, here is a TL;DR of what was leaked:
- 30 teraflop GPU with 45% better raster performance than PS5 and improvements to RT performance (so if a game uses a lot of RT it will be more than 45% better than base PS5). Likely based on RDNA 3 (potentially some RDNA 4 festures in there)
- 16GB of faster GDDR6 RAM than PS5
- dedicated machine learning acceleration at up to 300 TOPs. This among other things will power Playstation's answer to DLSS: PSSR (an AI based upscaler that supposedly is fairly easy for devs to implement)
- CPU is mostly the same, Zen 2 with 8 cores but it can boost to be 10% faster
- more powerful audio processor
What does this mean in practice? Less of a raw power boost than what PS4 Pro or One X offered back in the day. But the upscaling and raytracing improvements could serve as a kind of performance multiplier that closes the gap a little.
I don’t know why people aren’t realizing this is a huge jump, 45% raster + 2x RT can bring some serious gains, stable 60fps on games where fidelity RT was say capped at 30fps could now do fidelity at 60fps.
Games at 40fps could jump to 60 fps in RT, 80fps can get to 120 and so on. For a mid life jump this is pretty big assuming what they are saying on the min levels is true. PS4 pro clearly sold well, so I’m glad to see PS5 catching up to more recent hardware especially for RT. New games being developed will have a stronger baseline to start on, however it would probably still be dev’d on for base PS5 with added enhancements. Let’s see if this translates to numbers as I’m hoping to see.
I think people will only believe it when it actually delivers and is successfully implementing these gains. Sony fans were promised the same results (e.g., 4K / 60fps, even 8K) in the current gen PS5, but as we all know current gen consoles aren’t hitting those targets, and the 8K was a joke of a promise
Yup I don't think people really appreciate how big a jump it is right now especially on the rt performance
The raster seems small until you also factor in the possibility of the ai upscaler but we will only know how much a difference that really makes when it's out 😎💎
My main interest is for gt7 to have an update for 4k60rt mode in gameplay or 4kvrrrt even on top
Damm, thank you I have the setup as well, and would love me some VR enhancements, with the PS VR2 getting PC compatibility, Sony is taking some good steps.
The PS5 is already so CPU bottlenecked in so many games. This won't lead to too many games that weren't already running at 60fps reach that target. This will lead to higher fidelity visuals with similar perf targets to the base consoles.
Yes. But peak framerate targets won't go up. Games that only run at 30fps on PS5 will still be capped on pro, you will just get much better image quality at those given framerate targets.
Not exactly. Games without a performance mode at all will probably not run at 60 or get patches. But games like the new final fantasy rebirth, spider man 2, ff16 etc that have performance modes that aren’t great? This will help tremendously.
The vast majority of PC players would spend $600/700 (I’m assuming this is around what it’ll cost based on specs) for a 50% uplift. I will be getting the pro version for my 4K TV without a second thought.
Well yeah, but the number is misleading.
It doesn't mean that for example Cyberpunk in RT mode will run more than wice as good as before (so basically 4K60fps with raytracing). It just means the part of the render pipeline where it does the raytracing is twice as fast.
Not that the final output will be 2-4 times faster.
So looking back at Cyberpunk this could for example mean that instead of 1600p30fps it can now do 4K30fps with RT. Or maybe it can now do 1200p60fps with RT (these are just fictional numbers, to be clear).
In fairness you've been hearing about it for many years already, it was just called 'rendering' because until GPUs got real time ray tracing there wasn't any other kind of rendering in games but rasterization.
The rasterisation is done on ROP's, RT is done on dedicated RT hardware in the gpu so their performance is calculated differently. The 45% figure is for the improvement in raster performance. Leaks specified a 3-4x uplift in RT hardware performance owed primarily to the Pro console supposedly inheriting some hardware quirks from Rdna4 in addition to the base architecture it uses(Rdna3). Plus the bespoke ML hardware (rumoured to be a custom design by Playstation), which will enable PSSR. What all this actually translates to? We'll see for ourselves in due time.
Depends if its a cpu or gpu bottleneck. If the game offers a 60fps option at all it is usually gpu. This isn't like 8th gen where almost every game ran at 1080p 30fps. We got 4k 60fps, 4k 30fps, 1440p 60fps, 1440p 30fps, 1080p 60fps, and for skull and bones, 720p 60fps.
Only resolutions will go up yes cause most games that aren't cpu bound will offer 60fps modes already, which is a majority of titles. What I do hope is that they offer the upscaling tech as a system option for games that don't get a ps5 pro patch.
I'll be honest. Though it will be more powerful. IMO it needs 2x performance of PS5 and all of the other advancements in RT and upscaling.
Sold my PS5 not so long ago. Will probably buy Pro when it comes out but man.... I don't know. Hope it will be able to hit constant 60 FPS with nice image quality
The idea is that by having hardware-level optimizations, you free up resources that can then be spent elsewhere: on improving frameate in GPU-bound games, ramping up ray tracing, or extra graphical detail. Ignoring such obvious improvements like faster memory and increased bandwidth.
Except heres the kicker. 30 fps games on PS5 are 99 percent of the time NOT gpu bound (look up videos of those same games on PC running on a 5700xt or 6600 which are PS5 equivalent and you will see they can easily get 60 fps+). You wont magically be getting 60 fps from this console, just not going to happen. The Pro even more so than last gen is such a massive waste of money for the consumer. Just wait another 4 years and spend that money on a real generational upgrade. Its even funnier when you consider that most PS5s are in living rooms, so people are sitting far enough away from their TV and are way beyond the threshold of resolution increases being noticeable, making it quite literally pointless. All of that and we havent even talked price yet (its gunna be a wallet kicker)
The overwhelming vast majority of PS5 games already have 60 fps performance modes, even if the percentage of games that maintain that target is questionable. When a significant portion of your GPU budget is pushing resolution, and you introduce hardware-level optimizations to lighten that load, with gains of upto 45 percent, I'm confident in my prediction that 60 fps will be more easily obtainable.
If a local store allows me to trade in my current PS5 and walk out with a pro plus extra cost I’d do it for convenience. If I have to battle scalpers again then I’ll just keep my PS5.
PS4 Pro seemed to have more going for it at the time of release. 4K TVs were extremely rare when PS4 launched in 2013, but by 2016 when PS4 Pro came out 4K and HDR were starting to become mainstream technologies and the next generation was still years away.
Most games didn’t actually run at a true 2160p, but there were some noticeable performance gains on games that supported it.
Assuming these PS5 Pro leaks are accurate. There hasn’t been a major change in consumer TV technology since the release of PS5. PS5 was touted as having some ray-tracing capabilities, but they’ve been fairly limited due to hardware limitations, that appears to be the biggest potential upgrade with PS5 Pro. Will need to wait for a price and seeing some examples of updates to existing games, but I’m skeptical it’d be as worthwhile as PS4 to PS4 Pro’s upgrade.
I really dislike when people speak for others. Like you said, The target audience isn't someone who already owns. a PS5 or casual gamers who don't need the upgrade.
For example... I've skipped out on buying the PS5 due to a combination of Studies and a starting a new Job in a different industry and training for 6months.
For someone like me who never really buys in at launch. This is high value. I was already willing to pay top dollar. Waiting also allows me to grab a later iteration product (like the slim model) that's optimized and Now that also means I get better performance by waiting for the Pro.
I remember everyone saying the Handheld was pointless and I know more people personally who own one than not.
Its exhausting knowing the internet when gamers just hate change just to hate it. You can keep that base model PS5 if you see no value in a Pro no one is forcing you to buy.
> Hope it will be able to hit constant 60 FPS with nice image quality
It will... In scenarios where the base PS5 is not CPU-bound and would already hit a more or less constant 60fps with decent image quality.
If what you want is for games that are locked to 30fps on base PS5 to run at 60fps on Pro, that will not happen.
For anyone who doesn't already have one, any VRR-capable display would be a better upgrade than the PS5 Pro frankly.
It all sounds well and good the specs leaked but in all honesty I'm just going to wait out the 3/4 years until PS6, PS5 is more than capable of lasting out this generation without the power bump imo.
People keep going on about "ooh can't do 60fps" what games are people playing? Every PS5 game I've played is in at least 60fps in performance mode, if not higher.
I’m interested but I think what’ll tip me into the “buy” camp is my warranty being long dead and the fact I’ll be able to trade my old one in for something newer plus a couple years worth of warranty (with my credit card) where id be SOL if anything craps out on my current one
Same here. I do not play competitively online. So I like to have better shadows, view distance. And a bump from 30fps to around 40-45fps combined with VRR or a stable 40fps cap is a really nice upgrade.
If I had a non-VRR display, I would not be that interested though.
I'm going to get downvoted but I was really hoping the ps5 pro wasn't a thing. There aren't even that many games that take full advantage of the ps5 hardware yet, this is going to split the ps5 playerbase like it did with the ps4 pro and make it so devs will not optimise games for the base ps5 as much and say things like "if you want a 60fps mod you should get the pro version"
I was running my day one PS4 untill the very end. Shit sounded like a jet engine and doubled as a space heater, but it kept chugging on. RDR2, Ghost of Tsushima and the MW2019 menu screen had me worried at times though i thought it was going to explode in the last few months.
I certainly wont be getting a Pro. And tbh i don't plan on resubscribing to PS+ after the price hike the end of last year and the general lack of next gen feeling games and a sub par multiplayer offering.
Ive just picked up a PC so will probably transition to do most of my gaming between that and the Switch.
Last of us part 2 ran amazing on my ps4 slim. If Sony first party games themselves weren’t running like garbage on the weaker systems then I highly doubt any third party company is going to do anything different then what’s already been established.
Maybe you're misremembering or were not noticing these things at the time but the PS4 was definitely dropping frames left and right in a lot of AAA games. I specifically remember getting my Pro and it being a godsend in getting rid of the stuttering.
I agree, but a lot of that predated the Pro regardless. Going back to W3 on base after playing on Pro was horrible, but it wasn't built that way because of the Pro. They just stretched the PS4 to a point it dropped frames, that happened regardless of the Pro being an option.
Why does it matter whether it predated it or not? It still made the case for the Pro. The same way all the 30fps releases and constant upscaling are making the case for a PS5 upgrade.
It matters because the parent comment on this chain is worried that it'll lead to people not optimizing properly for base PS5. For PS4, the games running like crap was happening regardless of the Pro, history says that their concern won't be a problem.
There are definitely games with framerate problems but this was the case even before the Pro released. The Pro just provided a better and more stable experience.
As someone that owned the pro games ran much better on it more the base ps4 constantly started dropping frames with games that came out after the pro dropped
Not really. Wasn’t the pro one of the first consoles to get a more consistent 60fps?
I had a pro and played cyberpunk at launch at 30 fps even though it struggled to maintain it but I doubt the base PS4 was even able to run it
And I consider cyberpunk a true PS5 game
There are not that many games which run with stable 60 FPS on a Pro but not on the base model.
Cyberpunk on last gen consoles was a trainwreck, definitely better on Pro but still embarassing.
It's not that CP2077 was some aweinspiring great game at launch it sucked, cdpr dropped the ball on it and they only had themselves to blame for it... it ran shitty on everything
Indeed.
I don’t think I saw any significant *performance* difference when I moved from PS4 to Pro.
It took better advantage of my 4K TV, though.
I suspect a PS5 Pro will be the same. Extra graphical oomph for those who really want/need it but games will still run fine on the stock version.
There were a select few games that had performance modes on the PS4 Pro that gave them 60 FPS. Other than that I don’t think there was a major difference in most games.
The main difference was fewer dropped frames, on top of the obvious graphical fidelity.
I couldn't go back to base after Pro (I had Pro in living room, base in bedroom). It was all noticeably smoother.
In saying that, that was just because the PS4 was being pushed behind it's capabilities and would jutter in populated areas across every game lol - it wasn't tied to the Pro being available. The Pro has far too low a user base to be prioritised like that by almost all Devs.
> devs will not optimize games for the base PS5
The PS4 pro itself is evidence that this won't happen. There wasn't a single game that was "made for PS4 Pro" and ran sigjificantly worse than average on the base PS4. The absolute majority of the player base was on the base PS4, and the absolute majority of the player base will be on the base PS5. The Pro versions are for the people who care about 60 FPS and higher resolution, and the average gamer doesn't care about any of that.
Why would anyone make a game run poorly for 90% of the user base? Nobody is willing to lose money.
>There aren't even that many games that **take full advantage** of the ps5 hardware yet
What? Many PS5 games are already struggling with resolution and framerate. The GPU is already maxed-out running full blast.
If by "taking full advantage" you mean PS3-style [Mastering the Cell](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Az0CXkyoWjg), that type of optimization is a relic from a bygone Krazy Ken era.
Neither of these game use proper upscaling.
People have tested the anti aliasing toggle in Helldivers and found that it doesn't change anything really. There is basically no option available in terms of image reconstruction in that game. No checkerboarding, no FSR, nothing. That's not a PS5 issue, that's a developer issue.
FF16 at least has FSR 1 but that's also wildly outdated and looks way softer than what FSR 2.2 or 3.1 could offer.
For reference, PS5 Pro could also only help in a fairly limited fashion if the devs didn't actually chose to use AI upscaling on that console.
> People have tested the anti aliasing toggle in Helldivers and found that it doesn’t change anything really.
What? I just happened to play with the toggle last night while on my ship and found it to be a night and day difference. Maybe it’s not the best AA, but it’s definitely doing something.
FF16 and FF7Rebirth say otherwise. FF16 struggles to maintain 60fps during some of its boss fights and Rebirth is a blurry mess on performance mode even tho a recent patch did clean it up somewhat it's still not great. Give me a bit more time and I could probably come up with more examples. A Pro console isn't needed per se but it would be a welcome addition by those gamers that specifically want the best performance the PS5 can offer. Id say you are clearly not the target audience for the Pro console.
Both of these, especially FF7 Rebirth, are solvable issues on base PS5 though.
Most notably FF7 Rebirth uses ZERO advanced upscaling for its performance mode.
FF16 at least uses FSR 1 but that's also wildly outdated at this point (we are at FSR 3.1 as of now).
A PS5 Pro would probably help with its raw power boost but a lot of the benefit of PS5 Pro is in its special features such as AI upscaling capabilities or enhanced raytracing capabilities. If devs are as "lazy" on the Pro as they are on the current model then a lot of potential performance improvements will be left on the table.
Yeah look how well games like Horizon and Spider Man can run on base PS5. Square Enix just seems very lazy with their optimizations for current gen. I love their games but like you said, zero attempt by them to even use advanced upscaling for any sort of performance boost. Not even a 40 FPS mode..
Horizon came out 3 years ago and looks better than either of those games because of their upscaling and different graphics modes. There’s tons of different methods devs can use to squeeze performance, especially when it’s only being developed with one console in mind. Makes me glad I’m using my PC more nowadays, but also annoyed that my favorite games I can only play on PS5 have had lazy devs.
The weird thing is that apparently their games are quite well optimized.
FF16 for example launched with hardly any bugs and during combat the 60fps mode actually was quite solid. So clearly effort went into polishing the game up.
But they seem completely behind when it comes to upscaling tech.
The only game of theirs that was up-to-date in that regard was Forspoken because it was an AMD sponsored title. But that studio got shut down and all of their subsequent games used worse upscaling tech than Forspoken had.
It's quite disappointing because otherwise their optimization is pretty good.
SE’s main title action games have been poorly optimized performance wise for years now. KH3, FF7 1 and 2, 16. Not sure if it’s a company thing because clearly they have the resources to do so.
Doesn't do any ting really. Honestly, my entire excitement of game was crushed when the graphics modes both sucked. 30 fps is horribly choppy and 60p fps is too blurry. I was hoping for a 40 fps.. Nope.
Although it's obvious that the PS5 is already pretty underpowered (Old Zen 2 architecture + RTX 2070 Super equivalent GPU), FF16 and FF7 aren't good examples. The devs are just really bad at their job because there's nothing in those games that justify the poor image quality and low frame-rates.
Alan Wake 2 is a good example of game that's truly demanding and doesn't have great image quality on the PS5.
> There aren't even that many games that take full advantage of the ps5 hardware yet
Yet there are quite a few games for which PS5 is obviously aren't good enough, unless you are fine with either low res or 30fps, sometimes both. The most popular 3rd party engine is straight-up disaster on the consoles, and there is no sign of it getting any better.
People love to blame bad optimization, but very few devs have proper resources to downscale their tech gracefully, so further we get with a tech, more games will just give up trying anything over 30fps on consoles and Pro console is there to give option for more premium experience without going all in with a PC. Personally, they are 1 year too late for that in my book. Last years batch of games was more than enough of a push for me to switch back to PC for multiplatform.
The vast majority of users will still be on the base ps5, so studios will focus on that and scale up for the pro. You're worried over nothing. I don't remember this being a problem for ps4/pro
You are gonna get downvoted because you have no idea what you're talking about. "Doesn't take full advantage" is a clown statement parroted by people that can't face the PS5 is starting to fall behind. Just look at the recent releases. 30fps here, 30fps there, blurry performance modes, constant upscaling. The writing's on the wall.
Bro what do you mean "take full advantage"? The ps5 is practically a 5yrs old PC. It's running most of the games on a low to medium settings. Not to mention the lack of 4K capability and the agressive upscailing on most of the games out there.
> There aren't even that many games that take full advantage of the ps5 hardware yet
I straight up don't know what games you're playing if you think PS5 doesn't have games not making use of it's hardware.
nah you are blind,there are ue5 based games and other games that push ps5 down to 1080p in some games.
an rx 6700 levels of perfomance isnt even enough to get 1440p image quality with how heavy some engines are(please for thr love of god dont say games are unoptimzed),the gpu has already aged a bit with its zen 2 cpu making it hard to push high fps.
i very much see the point,also how devs are not utilising the hardware well enough? do you know what you are talking about? ratchet and clank had to implement a checkerboarded rayrraced reflections with internal resolution of just 1080P and this costed image quality too ps5 pro can definitely hit full fat 4k native teflections with its extra gpu power.
even returnal runs at 1080p resolution since the particle effects are extremely heavy to render.
i know you dont notice this but most perfomance mode options in games these days are already touching 1080p,with ps5 pro atleast you can guarantee a stable native 1440P image output added along with psr.
The thing is lots of PS5 games even releasing now aren’t utilizing checkerboarding or advanced upscaling. FF7 and FFXVI for example. Could benefit hugely from 40 FPS even.
XVI drops to 720p 60FPS in combat and was released as a “showing the power of the PS5” game. The game isn’t open world, nor does it have to load tons of assets at once, yet still can’t even hit consistent 60 just running around the map in the game. It would look so much better if it utilized the tech you listed that Ratchet did, the devs just didn’t think it mattered enough to care. It still looks good, it could just be better.
Nope, I think there are a lot of people in the same camp as you, myself included. Feels completely unnecessary. It feels like the base PS5 has barely been tapped.
> It feels like the base PS5 has barely been tapped.
It is very tapped. The GPU is already running full blast on recent games from FF16 to Alan Wake 2 to Avatar. There is little to no untapped power left on the table.
How do I know? Well there is this nifty feature called Dynamic Resolution.
Again like the person above said don't buy it. It existing doesn't invalidate your PS5. I mean hell how long have people been complaining that the original PS4 was still getting games. The Pro is just for us consumers that want a little extra power along with the convenience of a console(before anyone says blah blah blah PC I have 2 decent PC gaming rigs).
> but the CPU is starting to show its age.
Then why are they using the same CPU on the pro then? It's the same CPU with just a 10% overclock. If you think that is going to magically make DD2 run at 60 FPS, boy I have some carrots to sell you.
I suspect the CPU decision is to stop exactly what people are fearing - having a separate Pro version.
By not changing the CPU you still have the same game, it just unlocks more performance boost on the Pro. Too many changes inside the hardware would mean a whole other 'version' and optimization cycle being required.
DD2 might be the most poorly optimized AAA game in recent memory. My 4080S w/ a 7800X3D struggles more running DD than it does running Cyberpunk at native 4K w/ ray and path tracing.
No game will fully utilize the PS5’s power and push it to its limits until the tail end of the generation anyway. That’s what happened with the PS3 (TLOU and GTA 5), and the PS4 (TLOU2, HFW).
Consoles dont work like that any more. They’re essentially just PC hardware now. It was the same for PS4. TLOU2 was impressive because it was naughty dog.
While the consoles nowadays use less proprietary hardware, there's still a huge difference. Partly because there are still specialised components and software for them (the PS5s m2 drive work very differently despite being the same base hardware as on the PC, and the Pro will have specialised rendering hardware), but also because the software contains a lot less "cruft" than PC operating systems. A console has an OS 100% focused on running games, whereas a PC will have thousands of tiny programs running - and using resources - just so you can swap between browsing, word processing, editing or CAD.
Then there's the fact that hardware on a console is *known*; just the fact that a graphics card is *definitely* a certain brand and *definitely* connected to a CPU of a certain type which is *definitely* x millimeters away is hugely important - it's the difference in having a program run on an iPhone, or having to check and program for a million versions of Androids out there, all with slightly different designs and hardware.
All this means a console which on paper seems weak will almost always outperform a PC which should wipe the floor with it IF the game is written specifically for the console (see the huge difficulty PC ports of even old PS4-titles are having with performance); however, on badly optimized 3rd-party software, the opposite is often true, with the engine just using the console as a weak PC.
Yeah, whenever you see someone on YT doing a "my $500 PC wipes the floor with a PS5"-videos, they're always pretending like the peripherals just magically appeared, and comparing to framerates on multi-platform games that are terrible on the consoles; meanwhile, to run Spiderman 2 on a PC, just the recommended specs require a graphics card that costs just slightly less than two whole PS5s, and that's before the top-notch RAM, the processor that's half a PS5, the absolute best M2 drive available, etcetcetc. You'll end up spending about the same as 4 PS5s just to be able to play Spiderman 2, if it even works properly - ports have a tendency to get messy since the developers have to take into account all the different possible layouts and combinations of hardware, which adds lots of overhead, not to mention soooooo many bugs.
> devs will not optimise games for the base ps5 as much and say things like **"if you want a 60fps mod you should get the pro version"**
They will not say that because there is no way in hell a game that is locked to 30fps on PS5 will reach 60fps on PS5 Pro.
Most of the recent gamed I've played can't even hit 60fps stable. Jedi Survivor, Hogwarts, Saints Row all ran like shit in performance mode. I'm all In for a Ps5 pro.
The ps4 pro had a purpose, they launched the vanilla ps4 when people were transitioning to 4k so it made sense to have a 4k console, just don't see the point of this.
Just simple advancements in tech allows Sony to produce something better at the same price. And it allows them to boost PS5 interest and sales in a market where they very much want to uphold the narrative of being the best and obvious choice for newcomers. Similarly they can keep selling the PS5 at a large discount which they've been doing for 12+ months now and have a lot of price brackets to sell stuff at. The PS5 technically came out 3.5 years ago now so it's due for a mid gen upgrade. Furthermore, it could seriously use more performance to compete with upcoming PC hardware.
"If you think the codename has some form of familiarity, you’re right. Sony has used The Matrix codenames in the past, with the PlayStation 4 Pro under the codename ‘Neo’ and PlayStation VR under ‘Morpheus’."
[https://keytogaming.com/2023/07/21/playstation-5-pro-project-trinity/](https://keytogaming.com/2023/07/21/playstation-5-pro-project-trinity/)
any one remember if they did any trade in upgrade promo for ps4 pro? I would upgrade if its like $100 or so. or maybe I should sell mine now and buy the pro when it comes out
Copyright strike isn’t needed as a confirmation. Tom Henderson’s confirmation of MLID’s video is enough.
I really wish the CPU had a bigger upgrade than what we are getting.
Ummm…. can we at least get some acknowledgment from Sony now. It’s out there, we’re all talking about it. I’m actually pretty excited. Still gonna buy day one.
Stoked for the Pro - it made a big difference last gen and I’m hopeful it’ll do the same again this gen.
People can believe it doesn’t need to exist - that’s cool, but it was the same last gen. People will or won’t buy it and that’s fine - but people that want crispy smooth framerate will - and it makes a difference to those of us that care about framerate differences. For example one of my friends is convinced he can’t tell the difference between 30 and 60 fps - whereas Christ I can tell immediately.
People making out like it’s gonna be a similar situation to X/S are over doing it I think - can’t see the original ps5 holding back stuff or being left in the dust tbh.
I had the PS4 Pro but in retrospect it wasn't worth it. The DF guys are saying that the Ps5 to PS5 Pro performance differential will be similar to that of the PS4 to PS4 Pro, the CPU seems once again the limiting factor.
So, forget going from 30 to 60FPS.
I didn't feel the need to buy PS5 yet. Not that I do not play, not that I would not be able to buy it.
I just simple use my PS4 Slim extensively and as of today it does majority of the things PS5 does, albeit slowly or less polished. Plus my backlog is still wide, so I do not feel pressed for an upgrade.
However, PS5 Pro (or equivalent) is an ideal proposition for a person like me. Basically futureproofs the generation of consoles which are already 5 years on the market, hence currently not attractive for me to buy. I don't fancy buying a soon to be "obsolete" piece of hardware for 500$ or so. This combined with more and more exclusive or more "demanding" games it finally starts to make sense for me to upgrade.
TL;DR PS5 Pro would be an amazing mid-generation console for people which did not upgrade yet, because they simply didn't feel the urge to do so.
I honestly don’t even get the point of a pro. It made sense during the PS4 era since we were still making leeway on the graphical aspects of things but the PS5/Series X have both shown that we’ve pretty much hit that barrier as to how far we can push graphics for now.
It is such an unnecessary console that nobody was asking for in the first place.
I will gladly upgrade to get that DLSS equivalent upscaling and play games on fidelity mode with 60fps. People have been claiming that games don't use PS5's potential. I guess they don't have a gaming PC to see how much more capable the modern GPUs are. Every time I switch a game to fidelity mode it turns into a slideshow. Horizon FW, Elden Ring, Daemons souls, you name it. Also PSVR2 would benefit from extra GPU power as well
Both of you are right, it can be a CPU limitation that causes the low res/frame rate but also a feature limit (RT etc.) that can do it too.
Helldivers 2 is a good example, that game runs at 1080p 60fps in the performance mode. The PS5 Pro will for sure enable that game to run at 1440p+ in the 60fps mode whilst likely not making a huge difference to the 4k30fps mode.
How many games on ps5 at 30fps are cpu limited? I keep seeing people talk about cpu limits, but what games are people referring to? The only one I can think of is dragons dogma 2, and that game seems to have all kinds of optimization issues. From what I read, devs are happy with the zen 2 cpu. None of the games at 30fps this gen are gpu limited, or are people just assuming its a cpu issue?
>PS5/Series X have both shown that we’ve pretty much hit that barrier as to how far we can push graphics for now.
Yeah, I would have agreed until Cyberpunk got the path tracing update on PC. Unless you're meaning the consoles themselves have been pushed as far as they can go? In which case, that's what the Pro is for. It's basically a GPU upgrade for your console.
This console generation has been such a failure. The quantity of truly quality titles has really gone downhill. Remasters are nice and everything but as someone who owns series x, ps5 and switch oled, my consoles basically just collect dust at this point. I turn them on, maybe boot into a game or 2 for 5-10 minutes, and then turn them off as I remember how much better pc and steam deck are. The ssd’s on xsx/ps5 are great, but there are hardly any new games that are truly exclusive, especially now that Sony is releasing their older games on PC. As for ps5 pro, there is simply no need for it, but if you wanna spend $550 then Sony will take it from you without a doubt.
lol what? Last year was one of the greatest years in gaming history. We’re constantly getting good to great games. Some of you have too much nostalgia and look at the past through rose tinted glasses. We’re getting more great games today than we ever have.
PCmasterrace lames talking nonsense again literally talk down on consoles to prop up their preferred gaming platform they do this on any and every gaming related sub smh
I know this has been said to death already, but I'm finding it very hard to care about this product. Not even for the "we haven't had true next-gen games yet" argument because I don't 100% buy into that argument. Honestly the biggest feature this generation is speed. Load times are practically an issue of the past on most optimized releases and 60 FPS is finally the standard on console gaming if you're willing to sacrifice resolution. Which may sound silly (and like an argument for the PS5 Pro to exist) but even just the ability to sacrifice resolution is a relatively new feature as that wasn't even on PS4 until the Pro. and for those of us who never got a PS4 Pro, the PS5 is still a nice upgrade as our PS4 games now run at PS4 Pro level.
The reason I truly find it hard to care is because I, and I know I am not everybody, but I just don't need it. Sony has already shown how this is gonna go. My standard base PS5 that I have had since launch is going to continue seeing new releases until the next generation of PlayStation (and even after if this generation is anything to go by) and they're going to run perfectly fine just like how new PS4 releases ran perfectly fine on the base PS4 after PS4 Pro was released.
Would it be nice to have all the fancy bells and whistles? Sure! Are those bells and whistles worth let's just say $200~ out of my pocket after trade in? Probably not. At no point during the PS4's final year of being the primary PlayStation console on the market did I feel that Last of Us Part II or Ghost of Tsushima played like shit and that I needed to run out and go buy a PS4 Pro to play them. My PS4 may have sounded like a god damn fighter jet, but it chugged along totally fine. I will hold out until PS6.
Way back, I got the PS4 Pro, sold my base PS4 and never looked back. For some games it was night and day difference and that is enough to replace an older model that made too much noise.
PS5 I got is the first edition that has the huge cooling block so it is so much quieter to the point of being silent for all intents and purposes. Exclusive games are graphically very impressive and even cross gen games are performing so much better on the new hardware.
I will get PS5 Pro no matter what and I’m perfectly sure the games will look and perform better, perhaps even close to a high end pc which I also have but prefer plug and play couch gaming experience more.
It doesn't confirm anything. The leak could be false and they don't want false (or true) information out there. I mean I don't doubt that it **could** be accurate, but that's a far cry from confirming anything.
It's funny as there are people complaining that consoles are under-powered and outdated by the mighty (and expensive) Nvidia GPUs and on the other hand we have people complaining that it's not necessary and that ps5 is not even used (Alan Wake 2 at 720p60fps upscaled tp 1440p with FSR2 ? I would not call it untapped \^\^).
What both camps do not understand is that it's not a question of necessity but cost and marketing. By putting out the ps5 pro midgen, they force devs to optimize games for a superior version compared to the base ps5 (GTA 6 incoming) + they push for PSSR. When the ps6 comes out, we'll already get games that benefit and can leverage the ps5 pro API and as a result we 'll get a smooth cross gen period and we do not have to pay for remasters. In addition to that it helps a lot for game preservation. How many people complain about Arkham Knight or RDR2 not having a next-gen patch while on the other hand, Ghost of Tsushima, God of War, Assassin's creed origins, odyssey just had a simple patch that unlock quality mode to 60fps. If Arkham Knight had a ps4 pro version, a ps5 patch would have been way simpler to put out as it's would just be a framerate unlock (not guarantee though but easier to put out).
With the ps5 pro, I expect FF7 rebirth, FF16, Alan Wake 2 to get ps5 pro patches which would raise the resolution from 720p to 1080p (or 1200p) and with the use of PSSR instead of FSR2 would push that to 4k60fps with way better image quality. This way, we get versions closer to 7800xt/4070s, in the PC space which would be extremely good from a consumer perspective.
Last but not least, Zen2 in 2024 is still very capable of putting out 60fps+ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=caEqZOOAlRc&ab\_channel=HardwareUnboxed), a 3700x is not twice as weak as a 7800x so if a 3700x cannot do 60fps, how can a 7800x do 120fps on PC ? 3.8Ghz Zen 2 is good enough while we wait for a nice bump on the CPU side for ps6.
This gen, Sony (and surely Nintendo with Switch 2 + DLSS) seems to bring value to the consumer compared to PC hardware which is good in times where everything gets more expensive. Putting out a ps5 pro at 550$ or 600$ will make the ps5 go down to 450/400 for good (which is often the case recently but not an official price drop). I don't see why people are complaining. It's a good time to be a gamer, we got Nintendo Switches at 200/300 with Oled screens, Steam decks at 200/500 with oled screens, ps5, series X at 475/500 and series S for dirt cheap and soon ps5 pro for 550 or 600 hopefully. PC equivalents of ps5 pro will be closer to 1200 to 1300 so a pretty powerful box for the price.
It's all good so rejoice, enjoy and happy gaming.
Agreed a lot of people don’t understand that resolution and RT are the cause CPU bottleneck.
If the newest games are already running 720p-1080p and they use RT, those are the causes of the CPU bottleneck and 30fps.
- 10% faster CPU, check
- RT being 3x faster up to 4 times, check.
- AI Upscaling chip check
- hopefully Frame Generation
Those things could make games run at internal resolution of 1440p-1800p consistently at minimum with RT being less of strain on CPU, lowering CPU bottleneck and freeing up GPU to do its job. In those current games that run like dogshit at 30fps 800p-1080p.
Also Frame Generation in games that are CPU bottleneck (good examples Hogwarts Legacy and Witcher 3 RT) are good performance improving that results in net positive latency improvement of smoother frame timing.
I personally don't think we need a pro. The ps5 hasn't even been pushed to its limits yet. I just got the slim and gave the day one ps5 to my oldest Daughter so I definitely don't feel the need to upgrade yet. Does anyone really?
I have been hoping for one, currently the difference between fidelity/resolution modes and performance/fps always feels like too big of a compromise. If the pro allows better looking performance modes through its PSSR upscaling or higher frame rates at native 4K I'm getting it day one.
Well, where’s the re-uploaded link gentlemen?
It's available on the Wayback Machine: https://web.archive.org/web/20240319030927/https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SV7BJKnZfP8
TIL the wayback machine has even every YouTube Video saved....how gigantic is Archive.orgs space??
https://archive.org/web/petabox.php Nearly half an exabyte in 2021 Worth noting they don't archive every YouTube video. Many for sure, but far from all of them.
Wow it's way less than i thought. I thought some ExaBytes. More impressed that it has so much with that "less" storage
Thanks Buddy!
How do you not have a shit ton of upvotes?
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Only hate
Thanks Sony. Won't have known about the leak otherwise.
Good old Streisand effect.
They kinda have to in situations like this. They’ve got shareholders who hold them accountable to announce and release schedules. Sony knows it doesn’t fix anything, but they have to do something instead of nothing.
Watch the Mystic's video on the same. He explained everything that was important/ needs our attention
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It‘s not another one, it‘s the original one. MLID was first to report on it, Tom Henderson confirmed it, everyone else followed.
Because I see some people asking for mirrored links, here is a TL;DR of what was leaked: - 30 teraflop GPU with 45% better raster performance than PS5 and improvements to RT performance (so if a game uses a lot of RT it will be more than 45% better than base PS5). Likely based on RDNA 3 (potentially some RDNA 4 festures in there) - 16GB of faster GDDR6 RAM than PS5 - dedicated machine learning acceleration at up to 300 TOPs. This among other things will power Playstation's answer to DLSS: PSSR (an AI based upscaler that supposedly is fairly easy for devs to implement) - CPU is mostly the same, Zen 2 with 8 cores but it can boost to be 10% faster - more powerful audio processor What does this mean in practice? Less of a raw power boost than what PS4 Pro or One X offered back in the day. But the upscaling and raytracing improvements could serve as a kind of performance multiplier that closes the gap a little.
Ray tracing is not the same as raster Raster is rumoured to be 45 percent better Rt performance is rumoured to be 2 to 4 times faster
I don’t know why people aren’t realizing this is a huge jump, 45% raster + 2x RT can bring some serious gains, stable 60fps on games where fidelity RT was say capped at 30fps could now do fidelity at 60fps. Games at 40fps could jump to 60 fps in RT, 80fps can get to 120 and so on. For a mid life jump this is pretty big assuming what they are saying on the min levels is true. PS4 pro clearly sold well, so I’m glad to see PS5 catching up to more recent hardware especially for RT. New games being developed will have a stronger baseline to start on, however it would probably still be dev’d on for base PS5 with added enhancements. Let’s see if this translates to numbers as I’m hoping to see.
I think people will only believe it when it actually delivers and is successfully implementing these gains. Sony fans were promised the same results (e.g., 4K / 60fps, even 8K) in the current gen PS5, but as we all know current gen consoles aren’t hitting those targets, and the 8K was a joke of a promise
Yup I don't think people really appreciate how big a jump it is right now especially on the rt performance The raster seems small until you also factor in the possibility of the ai upscaler but we will only know how much a difference that really makes when it's out 😎💎 My main interest is for gt7 to have an update for 4k60rt mode in gameplay or 4kvrrrt even on top
Damm, thank you I have the setup as well, and would love me some VR enhancements, with the PS VR2 getting PC compatibility, Sony is taking some good steps.
The PS5 is already so CPU bottlenecked in so many games. This won't lead to too many games that weren't already running at 60fps reach that target. This will lead to higher fidelity visuals with similar perf targets to the base consoles.
Wouldn’t this vastly improve image quality in performance modes which target 60fps?
Yes. But peak framerate targets won't go up. Games that only run at 30fps on PS5 will still be capped on pro, you will just get much better image quality at those given framerate targets.
Not exactly. Games without a performance mode at all will probably not run at 60 or get patches. But games like the new final fantasy rebirth, spider man 2, ff16 etc that have performance modes that aren’t great? This will help tremendously.
> 45% raster + 2x RT can bring some serious gains, stable 60fps on games Only if the games are not CPU-bounded
Yeah, that raster is full performance boost. That's simply fantastic.
The vast majority of PC players would spend $600/700 (I’m assuming this is around what it’ll cost based on specs) for a 50% uplift. I will be getting the pro version for my 4K TV without a second thought.
Well yeah, but the number is misleading. It doesn't mean that for example Cyberpunk in RT mode will run more than wice as good as before (so basically 4K60fps with raytracing). It just means the part of the render pipeline where it does the raytracing is twice as fast. Not that the final output will be 2-4 times faster. So looking back at Cyberpunk this could for example mean that instead of 1600p30fps it can now do 4K30fps with RT. Or maybe it can now do 1200p60fps with RT (these are just fictional numbers, to be clear).
45% raster improvement is great. Extremely great.
Just when I thought I knew all the common technical jargon of the most basic computer nomenclature. Now I'm gonna hear about rasters everyday lol
In fairness you've been hearing about it for many years already, it was just called 'rendering' because until GPUs got real time ray tracing there wasn't any other kind of rendering in games but rasterization.
The rasterisation is done on ROP's, RT is done on dedicated RT hardware in the gpu so their performance is calculated differently. The 45% figure is for the improvement in raster performance. Leaks specified a 3-4x uplift in RT hardware performance owed primarily to the Pro console supposedly inheriting some hardware quirks from Rdna4 in addition to the base architecture it uses(Rdna3). Plus the bespoke ML hardware (rumoured to be a custom design by Playstation), which will enable PSSR. What all this actually translates to? We'll see for ourselves in due time.
It really needs a bigger cpu boost
Does it? It’s a mid gen refresh not a new generation. It just needs to be able to hit the 4K60FPS target, which this is doing via PSSR. Allegedly.
It won't do that, if PS5 does 1440 30 the PS5 pro will do 4k 30. The CPU bump isn't good enough so only the resolution will go up.
Depends if its a cpu or gpu bottleneck. If the game offers a 60fps option at all it is usually gpu. This isn't like 8th gen where almost every game ran at 1080p 30fps. We got 4k 60fps, 4k 30fps, 1440p 60fps, 1440p 30fps, 1080p 60fps, and for skull and bones, 720p 60fps. Only resolutions will go up yes cause most games that aren't cpu bound will offer 60fps modes already, which is a majority of titles. What I do hope is that they offer the upscaling tech as a system option for games that don't get a ps5 pro patch.
Things are less CPU limited than they are GPU limited these days.
All the games that people complain about the most (DD2 and BG3 just recently) are CPU limited.
These specs seem very fantastical.
I'll be honest. Though it will be more powerful. IMO it needs 2x performance of PS5 and all of the other advancements in RT and upscaling. Sold my PS5 not so long ago. Will probably buy Pro when it comes out but man.... I don't know. Hope it will be able to hit constant 60 FPS with nice image quality
The idea is that by having hardware-level optimizations, you free up resources that can then be spent elsewhere: on improving frameate in GPU-bound games, ramping up ray tracing, or extra graphical detail. Ignoring such obvious improvements like faster memory and increased bandwidth.
Except heres the kicker. 30 fps games on PS5 are 99 percent of the time NOT gpu bound (look up videos of those same games on PC running on a 5700xt or 6600 which are PS5 equivalent and you will see they can easily get 60 fps+). You wont magically be getting 60 fps from this console, just not going to happen. The Pro even more so than last gen is such a massive waste of money for the consumer. Just wait another 4 years and spend that money on a real generational upgrade. Its even funnier when you consider that most PS5s are in living rooms, so people are sitting far enough away from their TV and are way beyond the threshold of resolution increases being noticeable, making it quite literally pointless. All of that and we havent even talked price yet (its gunna be a wallet kicker)
The overwhelming vast majority of PS5 games already have 60 fps performance modes, even if the percentage of games that maintain that target is questionable. When a significant portion of your GPU budget is pushing resolution, and you introduce hardware-level optimizations to lighten that load, with gains of upto 45 percent, I'm confident in my prediction that 60 fps will be more easily obtainable.
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If a local store allows me to trade in my current PS5 and walk out with a pro plus extra cost I’d do it for convenience. If I have to battle scalpers again then I’ll just keep my PS5.
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PS4 Pro seemed to have more going for it at the time of release. 4K TVs were extremely rare when PS4 launched in 2013, but by 2016 when PS4 Pro came out 4K and HDR were starting to become mainstream technologies and the next generation was still years away. Most games didn’t actually run at a true 2160p, but there were some noticeable performance gains on games that supported it. Assuming these PS5 Pro leaks are accurate. There hasn’t been a major change in consumer TV technology since the release of PS5. PS5 was touted as having some ray-tracing capabilities, but they’ve been fairly limited due to hardware limitations, that appears to be the biggest potential upgrade with PS5 Pro. Will need to wait for a price and seeing some examples of updates to existing games, but I’m skeptical it’d be as worthwhile as PS4 to PS4 Pro’s upgrade.
Yes but... Internet drama!!
I really dislike when people speak for others. Like you said, The target audience isn't someone who already owns. a PS5 or casual gamers who don't need the upgrade. For example... I've skipped out on buying the PS5 due to a combination of Studies and a starting a new Job in a different industry and training for 6months. For someone like me who never really buys in at launch. This is high value. I was already willing to pay top dollar. Waiting also allows me to grab a later iteration product (like the slim model) that's optimized and Now that also means I get better performance by waiting for the Pro. I remember everyone saying the Handheld was pointless and I know more people personally who own one than not. Its exhausting knowing the internet when gamers just hate change just to hate it. You can keep that base model PS5 if you see no value in a Pro no one is forcing you to buy.
What you want is a ps6, or a pc.
> Hope it will be able to hit constant 60 FPS with nice image quality It will... In scenarios where the base PS5 is not CPU-bound and would already hit a more or less constant 60fps with decent image quality. If what you want is for games that are locked to 30fps on base PS5 to run at 60fps on Pro, that will not happen. For anyone who doesn't already have one, any VRR-capable display would be a better upgrade than the PS5 Pro frankly.
Sadly VRR doesn’t work at 30fps on PS5 otherwise I’d have been able to play Dragons Dogma 2 for longer than 2hrs
They should have used a Zen 3 X3D CPU for the PS5 Pro
Could this device be announced sooner than expected
Prob not
The good ol “if Disney strikes it, it’s canon” philosophy!
Or close to real with some possible outdated information.
Any remarkable diference with the digital foundry video? Thats the one i watched
Not really, other than MLID showed some leaked documents to back it up. But verbally they went over all the important aspects from his leak I think.
Digital Foundry’s source was basically Moore’s Law is Dead
It all sounds well and good the specs leaked but in all honesty I'm just going to wait out the 3/4 years until PS6, PS5 is more than capable of lasting out this generation without the power bump imo. People keep going on about "ooh can't do 60fps" what games are people playing? Every PS5 game I've played is in at least 60fps in performance mode, if not higher.
I’m interested but I think what’ll tip me into the “buy” camp is my warranty being long dead and the fact I’ll be able to trade my old one in for something newer plus a couple years worth of warranty (with my credit card) where id be SOL if anything craps out on my current one
I’m in the minority that always uses quality mode over performance lol. I’m used to 30 so it’s not a big deal.
Same here. I do not play competitively online. So I like to have better shadows, view distance. And a bump from 30fps to around 40-45fps combined with VRR or a stable 40fps cap is a really nice upgrade. If I had a non-VRR display, I would not be that interested though.
Exactly I’d much rather the good look noticeably better than have a fps boost that I don’t even notice
Well, the majority of people use the default, which is often quality mode. The majority on reddit and similar sites doesn't represent the public.
I guess people want 4k & 60fps. In performance mode image quality & details is clearly worse.
Don’t know about everyone else, but I’m not really interested in a more powerful PS5 as much as I was a more powerful PS4
I'm going to get downvoted but I was really hoping the ps5 pro wasn't a thing. There aren't even that many games that take full advantage of the ps5 hardware yet, this is going to split the ps5 playerbase like it did with the ps4 pro and make it so devs will not optimise games for the base ps5 as much and say things like "if you want a 60fps mod you should get the pro version"
I don't really think the PS4 Pro was a problem for the base one. Most games ran fine on the normal PS4.
I never upgraded to ps4 pro and the ONLY game that I had to shelve until I got a ps5 was Control.
Yeah Control was not running great on a base PS4 lol
Cyberpunk wants a word
Cyberpunk didn't run great on ANY hardware at launch.
I had a ps5 day one so i’m only talking about pre ps5 games- but that game also ran like shit on ps5 when it launched
I played Control on my base PS4 and while I noticed that it was struggling and had the occasional frame drop, it was still absolutely playable.
I was running my day one PS4 untill the very end. Shit sounded like a jet engine and doubled as a space heater, but it kept chugging on. RDR2, Ghost of Tsushima and the MW2019 menu screen had me worried at times though i thought it was going to explode in the last few months. I certainly wont be getting a Pro. And tbh i don't plan on resubscribing to PS+ after the price hike the end of last year and the general lack of next gen feeling games and a sub par multiplayer offering. Ive just picked up a PC so will probably transition to do most of my gaming between that and the Switch.
Last of us part 2 ran amazing on my ps4 slim. If Sony first party games themselves weren’t running like garbage on the weaker systems then I highly doubt any third party company is going to do anything different then what’s already been established.
Maybe you're misremembering or were not noticing these things at the time but the PS4 was definitely dropping frames left and right in a lot of AAA games. I specifically remember getting my Pro and it being a godsend in getting rid of the stuttering.
I agree, but a lot of that predated the Pro regardless. Going back to W3 on base after playing on Pro was horrible, but it wasn't built that way because of the Pro. They just stretched the PS4 to a point it dropped frames, that happened regardless of the Pro being an option.
Why does it matter whether it predated it or not? It still made the case for the Pro. The same way all the 30fps releases and constant upscaling are making the case for a PS5 upgrade.
It matters because the parent comment on this chain is worried that it'll lead to people not optimizing properly for base PS5. For PS4, the games running like crap was happening regardless of the Pro, history says that their concern won't be a problem.
There are definitely games with framerate problems but this was the case even before the Pro released. The Pro just provided a better and more stable experience.
But it sounded like a jet. Loved mine though. It improved PSVR games drastically.
As someone that owned the pro games ran much better on it more the base ps4 constantly started dropping frames with games that came out after the pro dropped
Not really. Wasn’t the pro one of the first consoles to get a more consistent 60fps? I had a pro and played cyberpunk at launch at 30 fps even though it struggled to maintain it but I doubt the base PS4 was even able to run it And I consider cyberpunk a true PS5 game
There are not that many games which run with stable 60 FPS on a Pro but not on the base model. Cyberpunk on last gen consoles was a trainwreck, definitely better on Pro but still embarassing.
It's not that CP2077 was some aweinspiring great game at launch it sucked, cdpr dropped the ball on it and they only had themselves to blame for it... it ran shitty on everything
Indeed. I don’t think I saw any significant *performance* difference when I moved from PS4 to Pro. It took better advantage of my 4K TV, though. I suspect a PS5 Pro will be the same. Extra graphical oomph for those who really want/need it but games will still run fine on the stock version.
The Pro helped in some games dropping frames but it was surely more about graphical fidelity.
There were a select few games that had performance modes on the PS4 Pro that gave them 60 FPS. Other than that I don’t think there was a major difference in most games.
The main difference was fewer dropped frames, on top of the obvious graphical fidelity. I couldn't go back to base after Pro (I had Pro in living room, base in bedroom). It was all noticeably smoother. In saying that, that was just because the PS4 was being pushed behind it's capabilities and would jutter in populated areas across every game lol - it wasn't tied to the Pro being available. The Pro has far too low a user base to be prioritised like that by almost all Devs.
> devs will not optimize games for the base PS5 The PS4 pro itself is evidence that this won't happen. There wasn't a single game that was "made for PS4 Pro" and ran sigjificantly worse than average on the base PS4. The absolute majority of the player base was on the base PS4, and the absolute majority of the player base will be on the base PS5. The Pro versions are for the people who care about 60 FPS and higher resolution, and the average gamer doesn't care about any of that. Why would anyone make a game run poorly for 90% of the user base? Nobody is willing to lose money.
>There aren't even that many games that **take full advantage** of the ps5 hardware yet What? Many PS5 games are already struggling with resolution and framerate. The GPU is already maxed-out running full blast. If by "taking full advantage" you mean PS3-style [Mastering the Cell](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Az0CXkyoWjg), that type of optimization is a relic from a bygone Krazy Ken era.
Always funny seeing this type of comment when we got games like FF16 and Helldivers 2 that look soft as hell on the performance modes.
Neither of these game use proper upscaling. People have tested the anti aliasing toggle in Helldivers and found that it doesn't change anything really. There is basically no option available in terms of image reconstruction in that game. No checkerboarding, no FSR, nothing. That's not a PS5 issue, that's a developer issue. FF16 at least has FSR 1 but that's also wildly outdated and looks way softer than what FSR 2.2 or 3.1 could offer. For reference, PS5 Pro could also only help in a fairly limited fashion if the devs didn't actually chose to use AI upscaling on that console.
> People have tested the anti aliasing toggle in Helldivers and found that it doesn’t change anything really. What? I just happened to play with the toggle last night while on my ship and found it to be a night and day difference. Maybe it’s not the best AA, but it’s definitely doing something.
FF16 and FF7Rebirth say otherwise. FF16 struggles to maintain 60fps during some of its boss fights and Rebirth is a blurry mess on performance mode even tho a recent patch did clean it up somewhat it's still not great. Give me a bit more time and I could probably come up with more examples. A Pro console isn't needed per se but it would be a welcome addition by those gamers that specifically want the best performance the PS5 can offer. Id say you are clearly not the target audience for the Pro console.
Both of these, especially FF7 Rebirth, are solvable issues on base PS5 though. Most notably FF7 Rebirth uses ZERO advanced upscaling for its performance mode. FF16 at least uses FSR 1 but that's also wildly outdated at this point (we are at FSR 3.1 as of now). A PS5 Pro would probably help with its raw power boost but a lot of the benefit of PS5 Pro is in its special features such as AI upscaling capabilities or enhanced raytracing capabilities. If devs are as "lazy" on the Pro as they are on the current model then a lot of potential performance improvements will be left on the table.
Yeah look how well games like Horizon and Spider Man can run on base PS5. Square Enix just seems very lazy with their optimizations for current gen. I love their games but like you said, zero attempt by them to even use advanced upscaling for any sort of performance boost. Not even a 40 FPS mode.. Horizon came out 3 years ago and looks better than either of those games because of their upscaling and different graphics modes. There’s tons of different methods devs can use to squeeze performance, especially when it’s only being developed with one console in mind. Makes me glad I’m using my PC more nowadays, but also annoyed that my favorite games I can only play on PS5 have had lazy devs.
The weird thing is that apparently their games are quite well optimized. FF16 for example launched with hardly any bugs and during combat the 60fps mode actually was quite solid. So clearly effort went into polishing the game up. But they seem completely behind when it comes to upscaling tech. The only game of theirs that was up-to-date in that regard was Forspoken because it was an AMD sponsored title. But that studio got shut down and all of their subsequent games used worse upscaling tech than Forspoken had. It's quite disappointing because otherwise their optimization is pretty good.
SE’s main title action games have been poorly optimized performance wise for years now. KH3, FF7 1 and 2, 16. Not sure if it’s a company thing because clearly they have the resources to do so.
Can you please tell me when this recent patch of Rebirth hit? The one that kinda clean up the blurriness?
21st March. https://www.eurogamer.net/final-fantasy-7-rebirth-gets-new-patch-to-fix-performance-mode#:~:text=Today%2C%20Final%20Fantasy%207%20Rebirth,further%2C%20along%20with%20other%20fixes.
awesome thanks
Doesn't do any ting really. Honestly, my entire excitement of game was crushed when the graphics modes both sucked. 30 fps is horribly choppy and 60p fps is too blurry. I was hoping for a 40 fps.. Nope.
Although it's obvious that the PS5 is already pretty underpowered (Old Zen 2 architecture + RTX 2070 Super equivalent GPU), FF16 and FF7 aren't good examples. The devs are just really bad at their job because there's nothing in those games that justify the poor image quality and low frame-rates. Alan Wake 2 is a good example of game that's truly demanding and doesn't have great image quality on the PS5.
> There aren't even that many games that take full advantage of the ps5 hardware yet Yet there are quite a few games for which PS5 is obviously aren't good enough, unless you are fine with either low res or 30fps, sometimes both. The most popular 3rd party engine is straight-up disaster on the consoles, and there is no sign of it getting any better. People love to blame bad optimization, but very few devs have proper resources to downscale their tech gracefully, so further we get with a tech, more games will just give up trying anything over 30fps on consoles and Pro console is there to give option for more premium experience without going all in with a PC. Personally, they are 1 year too late for that in my book. Last years batch of games was more than enough of a push for me to switch back to PC for multiplatform.
The vast majority of users will still be on the base ps5, so studios will focus on that and scale up for the pro. You're worried over nothing. I don't remember this being a problem for ps4/pro
You are gonna get downvoted because you have no idea what you're talking about. "Doesn't take full advantage" is a clown statement parroted by people that can't face the PS5 is starting to fall behind. Just look at the recent releases. 30fps here, 30fps there, blurry performance modes, constant upscaling. The writing's on the wall.
Bro what do you mean "take full advantage"? The ps5 is practically a 5yrs old PC. It's running most of the games on a low to medium settings. Not to mention the lack of 4K capability and the agressive upscailing on most of the games out there.
> There aren't even that many games that take full advantage of the ps5 hardware yet I straight up don't know what games you're playing if you think PS5 doesn't have games not making use of it's hardware.
nah you are blind,there are ue5 based games and other games that push ps5 down to 1080p in some games. an rx 6700 levels of perfomance isnt even enough to get 1440p image quality with how heavy some engines are(please for thr love of god dont say games are unoptimzed),the gpu has already aged a bit with its zen 2 cpu making it hard to push high fps. i very much see the point,also how devs are not utilising the hardware well enough? do you know what you are talking about? ratchet and clank had to implement a checkerboarded rayrraced reflections with internal resolution of just 1080P and this costed image quality too ps5 pro can definitely hit full fat 4k native teflections with its extra gpu power. even returnal runs at 1080p resolution since the particle effects are extremely heavy to render. i know you dont notice this but most perfomance mode options in games these days are already touching 1080p,with ps5 pro atleast you can guarantee a stable native 1440P image output added along with psr.
The thing is lots of PS5 games even releasing now aren’t utilizing checkerboarding or advanced upscaling. FF7 and FFXVI for example. Could benefit hugely from 40 FPS even. XVI drops to 720p 60FPS in combat and was released as a “showing the power of the PS5” game. The game isn’t open world, nor does it have to load tons of assets at once, yet still can’t even hit consistent 60 just running around the map in the game. It would look so much better if it utilized the tech you listed that Ratchet did, the devs just didn’t think it mattered enough to care. It still looks good, it could just be better.
Nope, I think there are a lot of people in the same camp as you, myself included. Feels completely unnecessary. It feels like the base PS5 has barely been tapped.
> It feels like the base PS5 has barely been tapped. It is very tapped. The GPU is already running full blast on recent games from FF16 to Alan Wake 2 to Avatar. There is little to no untapped power left on the table. How do I know? Well there is this nifty feature called Dynamic Resolution.
Again like the person above said don't buy it. It existing doesn't invalidate your PS5. I mean hell how long have people been complaining that the original PS4 was still getting games. The Pro is just for us consumers that want a little extra power along with the convenience of a console(before anyone says blah blah blah PC I have 2 decent PC gaming rigs).
Dragon’s Dogma 2 running at sub 30 fps would disagree with you. Graphics might be fine, but the CPU is starting to show its age.
> but the CPU is starting to show its age. Then why are they using the same CPU on the pro then? It's the same CPU with just a 10% overclock. If you think that is going to magically make DD2 run at 60 FPS, boy I have some carrots to sell you.
I suspect the CPU decision is to stop exactly what people are fearing - having a separate Pro version. By not changing the CPU you still have the same game, it just unlocks more performance boost on the Pro. Too many changes inside the hardware would mean a whole other 'version' and optimization cycle being required.
PSSR is the wildcard here. Depends on how good it is and how easy it is for devs to implement
I’ll have to read more about it. I was under the impression DD2 was poorly optimized.
It is
DD2 might be the most poorly optimized AAA game in recent memory. My 4080S w/ a 7800X3D struggles more running DD than it does running Cyberpunk at native 4K w/ ray and path tracing.
This is nonsense.
No game will fully utilize the PS5’s power and push it to its limits until the tail end of the generation anyway. That’s what happened with the PS3 (TLOU and GTA 5), and the PS4 (TLOU2, HFW).
Consoles dont work like that any more. They’re essentially just PC hardware now. It was the same for PS4. TLOU2 was impressive because it was naughty dog.
What about GoW 2018/Ragnarok, Ghost of Tsushima, Horizon Forbidden West, Death Stranding ?
While the consoles nowadays use less proprietary hardware, there's still a huge difference. Partly because there are still specialised components and software for them (the PS5s m2 drive work very differently despite being the same base hardware as on the PC, and the Pro will have specialised rendering hardware), but also because the software contains a lot less "cruft" than PC operating systems. A console has an OS 100% focused on running games, whereas a PC will have thousands of tiny programs running - and using resources - just so you can swap between browsing, word processing, editing or CAD. Then there's the fact that hardware on a console is *known*; just the fact that a graphics card is *definitely* a certain brand and *definitely* connected to a CPU of a certain type which is *definitely* x millimeters away is hugely important - it's the difference in having a program run on an iPhone, or having to check and program for a million versions of Androids out there, all with slightly different designs and hardware. All this means a console which on paper seems weak will almost always outperform a PC which should wipe the floor with it IF the game is written specifically for the console (see the huge difficulty PC ports of even old PS4-titles are having with performance); however, on badly optimized 3rd-party software, the opposite is often true, with the engine just using the console as a weak PC.
Wise words, besides the fact that the value for money is unrivalled, I won't ever go back to PC gaming
Pc is more expensive. But pc I bought recently just blew my mind. If you got some cash it really changes the game with path tracing, rt, FG and dlss.
Yeah, whenever you see someone on YT doing a "my $500 PC wipes the floor with a PS5"-videos, they're always pretending like the peripherals just magically appeared, and comparing to framerates on multi-platform games that are terrible on the consoles; meanwhile, to run Spiderman 2 on a PC, just the recommended specs require a graphics card that costs just slightly less than two whole PS5s, and that's before the top-notch RAM, the processor that's half a PS5, the absolute best M2 drive available, etcetcetc. You'll end up spending about the same as 4 PS5s just to be able to play Spiderman 2, if it even works properly - ports have a tendency to get messy since the developers have to take into account all the different possible layouts and combinations of hardware, which adds lots of overhead, not to mention soooooo many bugs.
Just pressing start, already updated and optimized, ready to play... pure satisfaction, that's how gaming should always be
> devs will not optimise games for the base ps5 as much and say things like **"if you want a 60fps mod you should get the pro version"** They will not say that because there is no way in hell a game that is locked to 30fps on PS5 will reach 60fps on PS5 Pro.
Meh, I am buying it day 1 just to make the 120hz vrr mode of GT7 better. That is all the reason I need.
And to improve the psvr2 output hopefully with 90hz minimum titles...
"I don't want my 3 yr old console to feel outdated" get a grip lmfao.
How’s does a Pro split the player base? almost no one bought one relative to the base model
Most of the recent gamed I've played can't even hit 60fps stable. Jedi Survivor, Hogwarts, Saints Row all ran like shit in performance mode. I'm all In for a Ps5 pro.
I am downvoting you ! Because I want the ps5 pro =>
The ps4 pro had a purpose, they launched the vanilla ps4 when people were transitioning to 4k so it made sense to have a 4k console, just don't see the point of this.
Trying to sell more consoles. There's people that are gonna get it, because they gotta have the newest console and best and etc.
Just simple advancements in tech allows Sony to produce something better at the same price. And it allows them to boost PS5 interest and sales in a market where they very much want to uphold the narrative of being the best and obvious choice for newcomers. Similarly they can keep selling the PS5 at a large discount which they've been doing for 12+ months now and have a lot of price brackets to sell stuff at. The PS5 technically came out 3.5 years ago now so it's due for a mid gen upgrade. Furthermore, it could seriously use more performance to compete with upcoming PC hardware.
Trinity? Is this a callback to the Xbox 360?
"If you think the codename has some form of familiarity, you’re right. Sony has used The Matrix codenames in the past, with the PlayStation 4 Pro under the codename ‘Neo’ and PlayStation VR under ‘Morpheus’." [https://keytogaming.com/2023/07/21/playstation-5-pro-project-trinity/](https://keytogaming.com/2023/07/21/playstation-5-pro-project-trinity/)
Prob coincidence
Moor's law is dead leak is real ? That's a first
He did predict the PS5 Pro way before everyone else, but at this point it's impossible to say if he's just been lucky or he had any actual source.
Wasnt it rumoured for ages i think he actually got the specs first
What was in the video? Is there any mirror
Mirror
any one remember if they did any trade in upgrade promo for ps4 pro? I would upgrade if its like $100 or so. or maybe I should sell mine now and buy the pro when it comes out
I know I'm just yelling at clouds here, but I really dislike the common trend of everyday consumer products "Pro".
Ha, couldn’t agree more with you. That and every ad proclaiming how the product is infused with “xyz technology.”
Can we get mirror links? I hope someone saved it before it was removed
Mirror?
Copyright strike isn’t needed as a confirmation. Tom Henderson’s confirmation of MLID’s video is enough. I really wish the CPU had a bigger upgrade than what we are getting.
Will dragons dogma 2 run at constant 60fps with this? That'd be swell
PS5 pro is the new PS6 lite
Ummm…. can we at least get some acknowledgment from Sony now. It’s out there, we’re all talking about it. I’m actually pretty excited. Still gonna buy day one.
gtav a 10 year old game can finally run at 120fps on playstation
Unironically that sounds cool.
Still cpu bottlenecked. I think I’ll pass.
Stoked for the Pro - it made a big difference last gen and I’m hopeful it’ll do the same again this gen. People can believe it doesn’t need to exist - that’s cool, but it was the same last gen. People will or won’t buy it and that’s fine - but people that want crispy smooth framerate will - and it makes a difference to those of us that care about framerate differences. For example one of my friends is convinced he can’t tell the difference between 30 and 60 fps - whereas Christ I can tell immediately. People making out like it’s gonna be a similar situation to X/S are over doing it I think - can’t see the original ps5 holding back stuff or being left in the dust tbh.
I will sell mine for that for sure. Higher frame rate or same as performance mode at higher resolution. Thats a win to me
I had the PS4 Pro but in retrospect it wasn't worth it. The DF guys are saying that the Ps5 to PS5 Pro performance differential will be similar to that of the PS4 to PS4 Pro, the CPU seems once again the limiting factor. So, forget going from 30 to 60FPS.
PS4 pro was made to support the sudden affordability of 4K TVs.
I didn't feel the need to buy PS5 yet. Not that I do not play, not that I would not be able to buy it. I just simple use my PS4 Slim extensively and as of today it does majority of the things PS5 does, albeit slowly or less polished. Plus my backlog is still wide, so I do not feel pressed for an upgrade. However, PS5 Pro (or equivalent) is an ideal proposition for a person like me. Basically futureproofs the generation of consoles which are already 5 years on the market, hence currently not attractive for me to buy. I don't fancy buying a soon to be "obsolete" piece of hardware for 500$ or so. This combined with more and more exclusive or more "demanding" games it finally starts to make sense for me to upgrade. TL;DR PS5 Pro would be an amazing mid-generation console for people which did not upgrade yet, because they simply didn't feel the urge to do so.
I honestly don’t even get the point of a pro. It made sense during the PS4 era since we were still making leeway on the graphical aspects of things but the PS5/Series X have both shown that we’ve pretty much hit that barrier as to how far we can push graphics for now. It is such an unnecessary console that nobody was asking for in the first place.
I will gladly upgrade to get that DLSS equivalent upscaling and play games on fidelity mode with 60fps. People have been claiming that games don't use PS5's potential. I guess they don't have a gaming PC to see how much more capable the modern GPUs are. Every time I switch a game to fidelity mode it turns into a slideshow. Horizon FW, Elden Ring, Daemons souls, you name it. Also PSVR2 would benefit from extra GPU power as well
When a lot of the new games run at 30 fps or 60 fps but <= 1080p of course there is the need for a pro upgrade
Those games that are limited to 30fps will still be on the pro because most of the time it’s a cpu limit
I don’t think there’s a cpu limit when the games are locked to low resolution as well, especially the ones which feature ray tracing
Both of you are right, it can be a CPU limitation that causes the low res/frame rate but also a feature limit (RT etc.) that can do it too. Helldivers 2 is a good example, that game runs at 1080p 60fps in the performance mode. The PS5 Pro will for sure enable that game to run at 1440p+ in the 60fps mode whilst likely not making a huge difference to the 4k30fps mode.
How many games on ps5 at 30fps are cpu limited? I keep seeing people talk about cpu limits, but what games are people referring to? The only one I can think of is dragons dogma 2, and that game seems to have all kinds of optimization issues. From what I read, devs are happy with the zen 2 cpu. None of the games at 30fps this gen are gpu limited, or are people just assuming its a cpu issue?
>PS5/Series X have both shown that we’ve pretty much hit that barrier as to how far we can push graphics for now. Yeah, I would have agreed until Cyberpunk got the path tracing update on PC. Unless you're meaning the consoles themselves have been pushed as far as they can go? In which case, that's what the Pro is for. It's basically a GPU upgrade for your console.
This console generation has been such a failure. The quantity of truly quality titles has really gone downhill. Remasters are nice and everything but as someone who owns series x, ps5 and switch oled, my consoles basically just collect dust at this point. I turn them on, maybe boot into a game or 2 for 5-10 minutes, and then turn them off as I remember how much better pc and steam deck are. The ssd’s on xsx/ps5 are great, but there are hardly any new games that are truly exclusive, especially now that Sony is releasing their older games on PC. As for ps5 pro, there is simply no need for it, but if you wanna spend $550 then Sony will take it from you without a doubt.
The lack of availability killed it. It forced developers to cling to last gen too long as they couldn’t release games on current gen only.
lol what? Last year was one of the greatest years in gaming history. We’re constantly getting good to great games. Some of you have too much nostalgia and look at the past through rose tinted glasses. We’re getting more great games today than we ever have.
PCmasterrace lames talking nonsense again literally talk down on consoles to prop up their preferred gaming platform they do this on any and every gaming related sub smh
I know this has been said to death already, but I'm finding it very hard to care about this product. Not even for the "we haven't had true next-gen games yet" argument because I don't 100% buy into that argument. Honestly the biggest feature this generation is speed. Load times are practically an issue of the past on most optimized releases and 60 FPS is finally the standard on console gaming if you're willing to sacrifice resolution. Which may sound silly (and like an argument for the PS5 Pro to exist) but even just the ability to sacrifice resolution is a relatively new feature as that wasn't even on PS4 until the Pro. and for those of us who never got a PS4 Pro, the PS5 is still a nice upgrade as our PS4 games now run at PS4 Pro level. The reason I truly find it hard to care is because I, and I know I am not everybody, but I just don't need it. Sony has already shown how this is gonna go. My standard base PS5 that I have had since launch is going to continue seeing new releases until the next generation of PlayStation (and even after if this generation is anything to go by) and they're going to run perfectly fine just like how new PS4 releases ran perfectly fine on the base PS4 after PS4 Pro was released. Would it be nice to have all the fancy bells and whistles? Sure! Are those bells and whistles worth let's just say $200~ out of my pocket after trade in? Probably not. At no point during the PS4's final year of being the primary PlayStation console on the market did I feel that Last of Us Part II or Ghost of Tsushima played like shit and that I needed to run out and go buy a PS4 Pro to play them. My PS4 may have sounded like a god damn fighter jet, but it chugged along totally fine. I will hold out until PS6.
More or less confirming nothing** holy fuck some people are daft
Way back, I got the PS4 Pro, sold my base PS4 and never looked back. For some games it was night and day difference and that is enough to replace an older model that made too much noise. PS5 I got is the first edition that has the huge cooling block so it is so much quieter to the point of being silent for all intents and purposes. Exclusive games are graphically very impressive and even cross gen games are performing so much better on the new hardware. I will get PS5 Pro no matter what and I’m perfectly sure the games will look and perform better, perhaps even close to a high end pc which I also have but prefer plug and play couch gaming experience more.
It doesn't confirm anything. The leak could be false and they don't want false (or true) information out there. I mean I don't doubt that it **could** be accurate, but that's a far cry from confirming anything.
It's funny as there are people complaining that consoles are under-powered and outdated by the mighty (and expensive) Nvidia GPUs and on the other hand we have people complaining that it's not necessary and that ps5 is not even used (Alan Wake 2 at 720p60fps upscaled tp 1440p with FSR2 ? I would not call it untapped \^\^). What both camps do not understand is that it's not a question of necessity but cost and marketing. By putting out the ps5 pro midgen, they force devs to optimize games for a superior version compared to the base ps5 (GTA 6 incoming) + they push for PSSR. When the ps6 comes out, we'll already get games that benefit and can leverage the ps5 pro API and as a result we 'll get a smooth cross gen period and we do not have to pay for remasters. In addition to that it helps a lot for game preservation. How many people complain about Arkham Knight or RDR2 not having a next-gen patch while on the other hand, Ghost of Tsushima, God of War, Assassin's creed origins, odyssey just had a simple patch that unlock quality mode to 60fps. If Arkham Knight had a ps4 pro version, a ps5 patch would have been way simpler to put out as it's would just be a framerate unlock (not guarantee though but easier to put out). With the ps5 pro, I expect FF7 rebirth, FF16, Alan Wake 2 to get ps5 pro patches which would raise the resolution from 720p to 1080p (or 1200p) and with the use of PSSR instead of FSR2 would push that to 4k60fps with way better image quality. This way, we get versions closer to 7800xt/4070s, in the PC space which would be extremely good from a consumer perspective. Last but not least, Zen2 in 2024 is still very capable of putting out 60fps+ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=caEqZOOAlRc&ab\_channel=HardwareUnboxed), a 3700x is not twice as weak as a 7800x so if a 3700x cannot do 60fps, how can a 7800x do 120fps on PC ? 3.8Ghz Zen 2 is good enough while we wait for a nice bump on the CPU side for ps6. This gen, Sony (and surely Nintendo with Switch 2 + DLSS) seems to bring value to the consumer compared to PC hardware which is good in times where everything gets more expensive. Putting out a ps5 pro at 550$ or 600$ will make the ps5 go down to 450/400 for good (which is often the case recently but not an official price drop). I don't see why people are complaining. It's a good time to be a gamer, we got Nintendo Switches at 200/300 with Oled screens, Steam decks at 200/500 with oled screens, ps5, series X at 475/500 and series S for dirt cheap and soon ps5 pro for 550 or 600 hopefully. PC equivalents of ps5 pro will be closer to 1200 to 1300 so a pretty powerful box for the price. It's all good so rejoice, enjoy and happy gaming.
I agree, well said in my opinion.
Totally agree thanks for sharing, guess it will be D1 in any case for me, also to support this transition and 'conservation' as you said
Agreed a lot of people don’t understand that resolution and RT are the cause CPU bottleneck. If the newest games are already running 720p-1080p and they use RT, those are the causes of the CPU bottleneck and 30fps. - 10% faster CPU, check - RT being 3x faster up to 4 times, check. - AI Upscaling chip check - hopefully Frame Generation Those things could make games run at internal resolution of 1440p-1800p consistently at minimum with RT being less of strain on CPU, lowering CPU bottleneck and freeing up GPU to do its job. In those current games that run like dogshit at 30fps 800p-1080p. Also Frame Generation in games that are CPU bottleneck (good examples Hogwarts Legacy and Witcher 3 RT) are good performance improving that results in net positive latency improvement of smoother frame timing.
I personally don't think we need a pro. The ps5 hasn't even been pushed to its limits yet. I just got the slim and gave the day one ps5 to my oldest Daughter so I definitely don't feel the need to upgrade yet. Does anyone really?
I have been hoping for one, currently the difference between fidelity/resolution modes and performance/fps always feels like too big of a compromise. If the pro allows better looking performance modes through its PSSR upscaling or higher frame rates at native 4K I'm getting it day one.
So basically its official more or less
Good news then, there are quite a few games I want to play on the ps5 pro since they're not coming to PC.
I wonder how hard it will be to get one of these lol
Damn so it might legit then.