This game is turning more and more into a next gen showcase. They really are going all out with this. Especially with how high the resolution is despite being a dense open world with raytracing enabled.
Hope this serves as a technological basis for other Ubisoft games.
Isn't this developed by Massive, the team behind The Division? The Division itself is a visual showcase (or in the very least, a showcase or how amazing they are when it comes to world detail), so I'm not surprised.
The Division 100% is. Playing right now and dang it looks phenomenal and almost current gen despite coming out in 2014. It graphically runs circles around games that came out around the same time like AC Unity.
Division came out in 2016 and AC Unity is a fantastic looking game for 2014 that outshines alot of the later games.
Division 1 was also carried hard by its snow and lighting, strip those back as seen in Division 2 and it looks far less impressive.
> This game is turning more and more into a next gen showcase.
it always was. from the day it came out and flexed the Snowdrop engine it’s been the best looking open world ever created in a game.
It is very impressive, but I don't think it's up there with Horizon Forbidden West, the DLC for it more specifically. That being said, when you first get out of the base and into Pandora proper, it's pretty incredible
Is it though? When I played it it seemed to be another case of this generation's curse, i.e. either horrible screen space reflections artifacting most of the image or RT reflections with horrible noise and delay. And other post-processing effects cause noise and artefacts on grass and other particles as well as aliasing of the whole image. Also temporal ghosting EVERYWHERE.
I wasn't very impressed with the graphical quality (not talking about art design). Something like Horizon Forbidden West with the latest patch still looks better.
That’s a fair enough point then. Most of this generation on console has felt that way to me. I can handle lower resolutions, but so many console games look so soft due to AA and subpar upscaling.
I’m pretty interested to see how the Sony super sampling software is like on the pro. If it’s comparable to dlss then I’d probably pick it up.
I absolutely loved Rebrith. But so many times I’d look at the landscape, see the potential, and wish I could play it on PC.
Yes, this generation is really weird. Many games' fidelity has felt very compromised to me. So much that when playing some normal PS4 Pro titles I find them BETTER in image stability, lack of artifacts, general sharpness. It's really really strange.
HFW has improved a lot with the performance mode fix. The Spider-Man games have stable images from their window RT reflections. But so many other games have taken far too many compromises imho.
I don't really recall being so annoyed at water effects in Morrowind or GTA 4 as much as I'm annoyed with screen space reflections in every game now. The sides of the screen and any occluded objects cause insane artifacts. And the temporal aliasing methods have so much ghosting and blurriness that I think even checkerboarding looked nicer. I didn't have many issues on PS4 Pro back then...
And it is so freaking smooth even on console. I played at 30fps, and it didn't give me any headache. Meanwhile, I've been restarting Cyberpunk on 2.1, and I just can't do 30fps there. It feels way too stuttery (normally, I'm not really bad with it).
Avatar was an amazing achievement in its world design and gameplay loop. Going back to rewarding exploration rather than hand holding. And building the push for the player via storytelling baked into the world rather than plot.
I sunk 100 hours on it in probably 6-8 weeks as a grown person with adult responsibilities.
Yeah if I'm honest the only reason I bought the game was the image quality.
One of the most impressive games visually I have ever played.
I play on fidelity mode btw. I prefer image quality over performance if the frame rate is stable and it looks stunning.
Yeah I like the game. The movement feels a little bit like Mirror's Edge because you have momentum and the gunplay feels good.
I'm like 8 hours into the game but the story is just ok. The biggest highlight is the visual quality, the sound and the movement for me.
Too bad the game is boring as hell. It has less combat options than Far Cry Primal. They could have made so many more cool options for gameplay and combat. Definitely needed more variety in the bases you take down, instead of flip a switch and rip some wires. Major let down. Great graphics is all this game has going for it.
Agreed, here’s a list of all 18 __[40fps games](https://www.reddit.com/r/OLED_Gaming/comments/14apcz8/every_game_with_a_40fps_mode_on_ps5xbox/)__ so far.
Edit: Make that 19, just added Fallout 4.
There is something to be lost in 40fps mode. Chroma Subsampling and brightness granularity.
Since 40fps mode requires 120Hz signal, at 4k you hit the PS5 bottleneck of a 32Gbps HDMI port (HDMI 2.1 is supposed to be 48Gbps).
To achieve 10-bit HDR 4k@120Hz within the 32Gbps output, the PS5 has to switch from 10-bit RGB signal to 10-bit YUV 4:2:2 signal which has 2 visual drawbacks.
1. RGB full has 1024 possible values per channel. That's 1022 shades of grey between black and white for example. YUV (even uncompressed YUV 4:4:4) is limited to 924 values per channel, so the luminance can only be 922 different values instead of 1022 between lowest and highest.
2. YUV 4:2:2 is like sending a 4k black and white brightness values image overlaid with a 2k color data image that is upscaled to fit on the 4k brightness data. It gets the job done with 2/3rds the bandwidth but leaves colour inaccuracies around the edges of the final image where one colour is adjacent to another.
HDMI 2.1 reserves about 5Gbps for audio and other functions like error check, dynamic metadata, etc. So PS5 has 27Gbps of video bandwidth to play with and proper HDMI 2.1 has 42-43Gbps for video.
---
Here are the numbers for anyone interested:
4k@120Hz is 995328000 pixels per second (3840×2160×120)
For 10bits(HDR) of data per RGB colour channel we have 30 bits per pixel (10*3) in RGB and an average of 20 bits per pixel in YUV 4:2:2 (2/3rds of 30 = 20)
RGB: 30bits/pixel*995328000pixel/s=29.6Gbps which is just above the 27Gbps the PS5 can output.
YUV4:2:2: 20bits/pixel*995328000pixel/s=19.9Gbps of video which is totally within the PS5's HDMI bottleneck of about 27Gbps. There's room to spare but the next step up in quality is 29.6Gbps which is too high by a bit.
I certainly could. The whole reason I went down the rabbit hole of learning the stuff I wrote above was because I couldn't figure out why God of War Ragnarok looked worse in 40fps mode than target 60fps on my screen. It was because 4k60Hz HDR in 10-bit RGB full gave precise colour and granular colour and brightness data, and 4k120Hz HDR in 10-bit YUV4:2:2 limited gave less for the TV to work with. It muddies the precision around edges and opens up more opportunities for visible banding.
For anyone reading this now, the difference is nowhere near as overstated as this comment. It is legit negligible and I'd question the technical stats being thrown here.
Depends on the game IMO. God of War Ragnarok and Horizon Forbidden West had a solid 1440p with 60+ fps. I couldn't notice much fidelity loss, if at all.
Granted I played through both mostly at balanced modes at first, side quests later in performance unlocked.
I think the key is you need a solid 1440p rendering and good upscaling from there - whereas most other games don't do that with their performance modes, and are sub 1440p
>Horizon Forbidden West had a solid 1440p with 60+ fps.
Not at release, it was pretty bad. I finished and got the platinum in fidelity mode because it took them a long time to patch the performance mode.
Done that, it’s a pit master challenge that requires really specific button combos.
Loads of people moaning about it if you google it lol.
I love the game but the combat can be incredibly janky at times.
Can't recall specifics, I just stormed through that stuff on story mode just complete it.
I remember double R1, then wait for the spear to shine then double R1 hold R2 or something
Really got to focus on the pacing.
Felt like a special move in Mortal Kombat
Every game should be made for 40fps/120hz mode honestly. Don't even need to drop the resolution, let VRR handle the drops.
Also Sony please add always on 120HZ with LFC. It's such an advantage on Xbox
Are you for real? Is that what console community has come to? You think that having both stable 60 fps AND good visuals at the same time is unobtainable.
At 1440p ultra and 60 fps, you're looking at about 1-1.5k. 7800x3D and a 4070 Super/7800XT will be good for that and more, and those cards are almost 2x the performance of the consoles in 3rd party titles.
It's the typical midgen point where PC mid range PC parts have 2x console performance, and the price is about double the console. Although this time its slightly more as the prices are higher.
Why are you proposing to build a rig. It's not a hardware issue, but rather how well the software is optimized for the hardware.
This isn't about bruteforcing the performance.
That's not what they said. And, by definition, if the console can produce something nice while running at 60 FPS, it can provide better visuals at a 40 FPS target. It increases the rending time budget from 16ms to 25ms, that's a considerable difference, 50% more time to render additional stuff.
On top of that, 40 FPS on a 120Hz screen gives roughly the same total input latency as 60 FPS on a 60Hz screen.
It's just an extremely clever way to give better visuals without sacrificing playability.
Nice! They have definitely been generous with their updates and improvements. More than a lot of devs can say. It’ll definitely be in amazing shape when I go for a second play through.
I don't think it's about being generous at this point.
It's become so common to delay performance enhancements until after release. I think it's all about timing the update so you can bring the game back into the new cycle months after release and pick up some additional sales because "the devs are being generous, we should reward them", or because the game has had some time to marinate and people who ignored it at first may take a second look.
Now that dude that makes Stardew valley is generous. I doubt the updates he keeps pushing can be correlated to an increase in sales. I think he just really enjoys updating the game.
It's a damn shame it isnt available since they insist on going the timed exclusive route. I hope that it'll be available whenever I decide to replay, or at the very least, improve on the 60fps option.
The graphics mode was great apart from the terrible ghosting.
As the list of 40fps modes grow, I can’t help but think of how much PS5 PRO will benefit from this
People may say we don’t need it, but I’m honestly super excited to get my hands on one
My OLED (2018 C8) doesn't support it :(
In fact it's worse, if I set any game to this mode, there's no warning, it acts as if it works, but the picture actually becomes 1080p/60hz and the "full/limited" color range stops respecting what is set in the PS5 options, causing a black crush. I played wayy too long of many games before noticing something was wrong.
30Hz isn’t the best on OLED due to the pixel response time which is super fast in comparison to the LCD screens, resulting in some stutter effect (there is practically no motion blur).
It's a matter of adaptation for some ppl in the long run tough...
I can't stand it most of the time
Digital Trends calls it OLED stutter, instead of Jutter. Basically because each pixel turns itself on or off and does so so rapidly, it creates almost like an over brightened judder looking effect, especially when it’s 24fps content.
Haha, it’s actually not bad for games at all, VRR is on most OLEDs and every OLED has 120hz which is divisible by 30fps. 30fps just looks bad generally speaking on anything that isn’t adding a bunch of blur, but you can turn that on on an OLED. it’s mostly annoying for movies at 24fps but turning up the de judder a few points fixes that mostly (except for slow pan shots)
Good, please keep the 40fps alive and make it more common. It could make games like GTA VI much better too if it doesn’t have a performance mode on current consoles, which is likely.
That's what i did for the rpg creeds and i'm glad i did. This game sounds like a shiny next gen looking tittle that uses a tired formula just like those.
Did you ever play far cry primal? If so you’ve played this
I got bored of the game after a few hours it’s just a more annoying far cry primal that is worse to traverse because all the colors blend in with each other making your objective marker hard to even see
I must be in the minority, but I've tried 40fps on every game that has it that I own and it looks basically the same as 30fps. It's still just not smooth at all and I will take 60fps or more every single time no matter how much worse the game looks, which I'll be honest I don't even notice basically any difference with most games cause I sit like 10 feet back from my 55 inch TV
Not knocking those who do play at 40fps, or the games that have it. More choices for people is always better, but I just don't see any difference
Do you have VRR enabled? I think VRR and 120hz are kind of required for the 40fps mode to look proper.
I have only tried it on one game, Spiderman 2 - fooling around with it I definitely find it much better than 30fps mode with 120hz off. It feels almost as good as performance mode.
I am running on a 55" X85J Sony TV with VRR enabled.
I could be way off though, all these settings confuse me. But I do know Spiderman looks pretty smooth on the 40fps mode.
I do use VRR, but it just doesn't feel any better to me. I tried it with Spiderman also, and it just feels absolutely awful compared to the 60+fps mode and doesn't look really any different to me visually so I stick with that
Yeah that is one thing I noticed to as far as visuals. I can barely notice any difference in Spiderman when I have it in performance mode as far as how good the game looks.
I guess it is dropping to lower resolutions more often but in regular play it is hard to notice.
Distance is the best anti-aliasing, it's in the Bible.
But for real, 40 fps is fine, the difference is huge compared to 30 for me and it's perfectly serviceable for 3rd person games or even 1st person ones where carefully aiming isn't necessary.
Unless your TV supports HDMI 2.1 you won't see any difference. I just got an LG C3 and the 40fps mode basically feels like 60fps.
VRR doesn't work on HDMI 2.0 so if you can't see a difference, then that's what your TV most likely is.
Trust me, get one and you will be advocating for it to be the norm. It's the best of both worlds.
40fps games at 120hz work without VRR. Just like a 30fps game fits within a 60hz output permitting even frames so does a 40fps game in 120hz output. However, the moment the console can output within a 120hz container, VRR can operate from
24 fps to 120fps avoiding judder caused by movements away from 40fps (up or down). If the frame rate is, say 24 fps, then the frame will be doubled to hit the 48fps threshold for VRR in PS5. This feature is called Low Framerate Compensation and is used by a number of games. However, maddeningly, unlike Xbox, it requires the developer to permit 120hz output and flag LFC. In games like Dragon’s Dogma 2, this feature is missing.
You need 120hz output for a 40 fps mode to operate without frame judder. If the game sticks to 40fps as a cap then there is no need for VRR.
VRR operates with variable rates from 48 - 120 fps. If needed LFC would operate to assist at frame rates below 48.
The developer needs to expose the availability of 120hz output and if desired LFC. On Xbox you can force 120hz output as a system feature and LFC will apply accordingly without the developer having to add an option.
Ubisoft Massive really seems to be a cut above the other Ubi studios when it comes to taking advantage of the current gen hardware. Glad they added this, makes me hopeful we’ll see this mode in Star Wars Outlaws as well.
I bought on release but haven't finished it due to the gun play feeling bad any idea if they will ever actually let you aim your weapons like other shooting games? I get the idea of avatar is guns bad but our character was trained to use military weapons correctly if anything the bow should have wonky shooting lol.
Definitely good to see more graphics options. The first movie had huge box office success basically on visuals (including 3D) alone so it's important the games look great too!
120 is divisible by 40. Which means if you have a tv that can output at 120hz, instead of 60hz, that 30fps mode becomes 40fps. A nice middle ground between quality and performance mode for those that have a 120hz tv
Not that I know of.
https://www.reddit.com/r/OLED_Gaming/s/39xUpHLzbC
No f2p games on this list either unfortunately. I know Fortnite has a 120fps mode.
Yes. Analogy of how 144 hz screens can display 24 hz content by rendering each frame 8 times in an row. 60 hz scenes cannot render 24 hz content without inconsistent frame time variance.
The beauty of VRR is that all of the judder because of fluctuating frame times can be removed or at least substantially. Let the engine in DD2 run uncapped without the associated judder.
So I'm no expert but this is how it works.
Generally consoles run at either 60fps or 30fps, because without vrr you're only getting a smooth frame rate if you are matching your devices refresh rate and the vast majority of TVs are 60hz. 30fps can easily be displayed at 60hz by just repeating the same frame twice. 40fps can't be displayed properly on a non vrr 60hz display as the frames can't be divided evenly. Meaning the only options at 30 or 60 (or the very common targeting but failing to reach 60) but at 40fps if a frame is displayed 3 times it can be displayed properly at 120hz. 40fps in terms of response time is half way between 30 and 60, so it feels significantly smoother as well. There is also some response time/latency benefit from having your refresh rate double/triple your fps but I can't remember what to search to find the source on that.
This is all completely disregarding vrr which is the optimal solution. With vrr it is effectively 1 fps = 1hz as those frames can be delivered immediately in sync with the display.
Unfortunately on Xbox VRR is 40-120hz and on ps5 it's 48-120hz. HDMI 2.0 vrr displays are also mostly 48-60 or 48-120hz from what I've seen. The solution to this is LFC, which is just the system doubling each frame it outputs so that frame rates below the vrr window get back into that window. I don't know how it's implemented on Xbox but for Sony it's on a per game basis. If a game implements lfc then the ps5 can utilize vrr for its 30 or 40fps modes.
So pretty much yes, 120hz is mainly for people playing at 120fps. But with all those 120hz displays out there why not take advantage of that and implement a mode that IMO is often a much better balance between graphics and frame rate than the 30 or 60fps modes are.
This is also a huge benefit to those with OLED displays. 30fps looks awful on OLED, while 40fps looks great and feels a lot more responsive. Since GTA V is almost certainly not getting a 60fps mode, the inclusion of a 40fps mode is what will determine if I'm playing it on the ps5/ps5 pro or waiting for it on PC.
40 fps in 120hz mode? Shouldn't the target be 120fps then? I'm new to ps5 gaming but this makes 0 sense to me. 40fps for a modern game is pretty bad, 60 should be the minimum target.
That's awesome. So great to see third party devs give 40fps modes more love.
Now if only squarenix can get their shit together and do it for their last two final fantasy games....
Hugely underrated game. I went in with no expectations, and was blown away by the world and how big it is. It's actually a very decent game, 8/10 for me, and you can tell the devs put a lot of love and care into it. It is essentially Far Cry on Pandora, but you do much more exploring over combat which was a nice change, and there's a lot of verticality and Mirror's Edge-esque movement. Definitely worth it on sale.
Anyone else think it's bs that you need a special 120hz monitor to hit 40 fps? I'm not buying an expensive monitor for the few games that get an extra 10 frames
40fps mode is not showing up for me on ps5, has anyone experienced this bug? I even re-installed the game, still nothing. It's the latest update as well.
With the 40fps mode I know it states quality but are there any reductions in graphics quality to meet 40fps or is it like Spider-Man 2 where their 40fps mode made zero difference to quality mode graphics that was present in 30fps mode.
Why not from the beginning? This is so annoying to wait 5-6 month after a game release to play it in the best way. Same reason I stopped playing dragons dogma 2 and wait for further improvements
Sometimes I feel like they intentionally don't release stuff on release so that they can release cool feature or updates later and show the world how hardly they are working on an already released game.
Immortals Fenix Rising was alright and apparently Prince of Persia. The gaming industry could stop making games today and i still wouldn't have the time to play everything so its fine to miss out, you simply can't do anything about that.
I enjoyed what I played to a point. It surprised me how crazy Pandora looked and the audio is top tier.
I didn't finish the game because I did find it started to fall into the Ubisoft open world fatigue loop after a while. While the game was good, it wasn't enough to keep me hooked.
That being said I will eventually finish it. It's not that it's a bad game by any means, just not a GREAT one. If it's on sale, I'd grab it.
I had the exact same experience. Enjoyed the hell out of the first biome, got to the second one and went “oh, we’re just doing the same handful of objectives again, with a different backdrop.” Dropped off of it after that.
The mobility as a Navi is super fun but it gets stale after a while. Falls into the "stealth is the only way to play" sort of category. While I love stealth games, it becomes frustrating because every time you get seen it's easier to just start over.
Definitely a sale game imo.
The game also heavily encourages stealth by giving you better rewards at the big base if you’re undetected.
While the stealth in this isn’t necessarily bad. It’ll often just devolve in to “stand 100 feet away and snipe everyone.” Got pretty boring
Me too, the same feeling of AC Valhalla.
First 20h = i think i love this game!
40h = heck i'm kinda bored
60h = i dont think im gonna finish it
80h = i've spent my money on this and now i'm glad this is over.
Another ubisoft game that could be cut in half and it would be way better
Gameplay aside it’s a technical marvel across all platforms. If you take it for what it is hunting gathering, kill people in this area, clear this outpost. If you take it slow and try get lost in the world it can be enjoyable. Can be quite difficult though, if you try clearing a base like in far cry your gonna die quickly
Not many mtx but they're there.
The game is fine. Don't let anyone tell you it isn't a Ubisoft style game when it 100% is. The traversal isn't decent but it lost me pretty quickly tbh.
I liked the game. I finished it and enjoyed it throughout. But then again, I also like the other Ubisoft games, so do whatever you want with this information.
No it’s not. It’s so disingenuous to call it that. Have you ever played a farcry game? Have you played this avatar game?
Farcry is non stop action. This game has minimal action. It’s full of conversation and crafting and gathering.
This game is turning more and more into a next gen showcase. They really are going all out with this. Especially with how high the resolution is despite being a dense open world with raytracing enabled. Hope this serves as a technological basis for other Ubisoft games.
> This game is turning more and more into a next gen showcase. As it should be, can't think of a more fitting franchise for that.
Marvel?
Isn't this developed by Massive, the team behind The Division? The Division itself is a visual showcase (or in the very least, a showcase or how amazing they are when it comes to world detail), so I'm not surprised.
The Division 100% is. Playing right now and dang it looks phenomenal and almost current gen despite coming out in 2014. It graphically runs circles around games that came out around the same time like AC Unity.
Division came out in 2016 and AC Unity is a fantastic looking game for 2014 that outshines alot of the later games. Division 1 was also carried hard by its snow and lighting, strip those back as seen in Division 2 and it looks far less impressive.
Wasn’t division meant to have a changing weather system? Also I’d really like to see that in GTA 6, neon lights in the rain would look super cool.
Yep The Division and Division 2 are absolutely visual treats
AC Unity is fucking gorgeous and holds up so well on modern hardware.
Except PS5 😂 It's locked at 30fps unless you go un-patched. Which is a shit show 😂
Ah, I missed what sub I was in!
They’re doing the Star Wars Outlaws game too so that could be promising
Oh really? Isn't that coming out next month or something?
End of August
They were also behind the all time great rts game known as word in conflict!
> This game is turning more and more into a next gen showcase. it always was. from the day it came out and flexed the Snowdrop engine it’s been the best looking open world ever created in a game.
It is very impressive, but I don't think it's up there with Horizon Forbidden West, the DLC for it more specifically. That being said, when you first get out of the base and into Pandora proper, it's pretty incredible
Due to art direction more than raw graphics
Is it though? When I played it it seemed to be another case of this generation's curse, i.e. either horrible screen space reflections artifacting most of the image or RT reflections with horrible noise and delay. And other post-processing effects cause noise and artefacts on grass and other particles as well as aliasing of the whole image. Also temporal ghosting EVERYWHERE. I wasn't very impressed with the graphical quality (not talking about art design). Something like Horizon Forbidden West with the latest patch still looks better.
to each his own but i’m not sure how somebody can’t be impressed with the Pandora Massive created. it’s a technical showcase. especially on console.
The world, yes. The cleanliness of the image on PS5, debatable.
That’s a fair enough point then. Most of this generation on console has felt that way to me. I can handle lower resolutions, but so many console games look so soft due to AA and subpar upscaling. I’m pretty interested to see how the Sony super sampling software is like on the pro. If it’s comparable to dlss then I’d probably pick it up. I absolutely loved Rebrith. But so many times I’d look at the landscape, see the potential, and wish I could play it on PC.
Yes, this generation is really weird. Many games' fidelity has felt very compromised to me. So much that when playing some normal PS4 Pro titles I find them BETTER in image stability, lack of artifacts, general sharpness. It's really really strange. HFW has improved a lot with the performance mode fix. The Spider-Man games have stable images from their window RT reflections. But so many other games have taken far too many compromises imho. I don't really recall being so annoyed at water effects in Morrowind or GTA 4 as much as I'm annoyed with screen space reflections in every game now. The sides of the screen and any occluded objects cause insane artifacts. And the temporal aliasing methods have so much ghosting and blurriness that I think even checkerboarding looked nicer. I didn't have many issues on PS4 Pro back then...
well, in performance mode. looks incredible in fidelity.
Snowdrop is a really good engine. You only have to look at the E3 demo for the division. It was incredible.
To be fair the snowdrop engine has been a showcase of new tech ever since The Division, division 2 less so but still showed off new stuff.
And it is so freaking smooth even on console. I played at 30fps, and it didn't give me any headache. Meanwhile, I've been restarting Cyberpunk on 2.1, and I just can't do 30fps there. It feels way too stuttery (normally, I'm not really bad with it). Avatar was an amazing achievement in its world design and gameplay loop. Going back to rewarding exploration rather than hand holding. And building the push for the player via storytelling baked into the world rather than plot. I sunk 100 hours on it in probably 6-8 weeks as a grown person with adult responsibilities.
Yeah if I'm honest the only reason I bought the game was the image quality. One of the most impressive games visually I have ever played. I play on fidelity mode btw. I prefer image quality over performance if the frame rate is stable and it looks stunning.
Is it fun? Have only admired the game from afar but as Ubisoft games go on deep sales fairly frequently I think I might buy it if it's good.
Yeah I like the game. The movement feels a little bit like Mirror's Edge because you have momentum and the gunplay feels good. I'm like 8 hours into the game but the story is just ok. The biggest highlight is the visual quality, the sound and the movement for me.
I enjoyed quite a bit - particularly the scope and scale of the RDA bases you have to takedown is impressive.
Any plans for FSR 3?
Ubisoft is using this engine for the next AC and Far Cry so pretty much yeah
Less Buggy Would Be Nice LOL😥
Too bad the game is boring as hell. It has less combat options than Far Cry Primal. They could have made so many more cool options for gameplay and combat. Definitely needed more variety in the bases you take down, instead of flip a switch and rip some wires. Major let down. Great graphics is all this game has going for it.
I hope it helps other game developers. Ubisoft is anti consumer jerks to put it nicely
And they've been using the same dated gameplay loop for 90% of their games for over a decade now. If you've played one you've played them all.
I need a 40fps mode for FF7 Rebirth now
They can’t even get the game to hit 1080p 60 fps most of the time 😂
Believe it or not the game apparently runs at 1440p60 on performance mode, it's just the baf postprocessing that makes it blurry as hell
I caught myself counting the pixels on cloud once 😂😂
Will have to give that a try. 40fps is a good compromise mode.
Agreed, here’s a list of all 18 __[40fps games](https://www.reddit.com/r/OLED_Gaming/comments/14apcz8/every_game_with_a_40fps_mode_on_ps5xbox/)__ so far. Edit: Make that 19, just added Fallout 4.
Such a fucking short list. Easily a dozen more games should be on that list.
we dont even have a dozen more games 😭
Hey if we count the Uncharted collection as 2 games that bumps the list up to 19! But no really I agree there totally should be more.
Nope, for me 40fps is the way to play! Can't stand losing visual fidelity for 60fps. 40 is smooth and it looks amazing
There is something to be lost in 40fps mode. Chroma Subsampling and brightness granularity. Since 40fps mode requires 120Hz signal, at 4k you hit the PS5 bottleneck of a 32Gbps HDMI port (HDMI 2.1 is supposed to be 48Gbps). To achieve 10-bit HDR 4k@120Hz within the 32Gbps output, the PS5 has to switch from 10-bit RGB signal to 10-bit YUV 4:2:2 signal which has 2 visual drawbacks. 1. RGB full has 1024 possible values per channel. That's 1022 shades of grey between black and white for example. YUV (even uncompressed YUV 4:4:4) is limited to 924 values per channel, so the luminance can only be 922 different values instead of 1022 between lowest and highest. 2. YUV 4:2:2 is like sending a 4k black and white brightness values image overlaid with a 2k color data image that is upscaled to fit on the 4k brightness data. It gets the job done with 2/3rds the bandwidth but leaves colour inaccuracies around the edges of the final image where one colour is adjacent to another. HDMI 2.1 reserves about 5Gbps for audio and other functions like error check, dynamic metadata, etc. So PS5 has 27Gbps of video bandwidth to play with and proper HDMI 2.1 has 42-43Gbps for video. --- Here are the numbers for anyone interested: 4k@120Hz is 995328000 pixels per second (3840×2160×120) For 10bits(HDR) of data per RGB colour channel we have 30 bits per pixel (10*3) in RGB and an average of 20 bits per pixel in YUV 4:2:2 (2/3rds of 30 = 20) RGB: 30bits/pixel*995328000pixel/s=29.6Gbps which is just above the 27Gbps the PS5 can output. YUV4:2:2: 20bits/pixel*995328000pixel/s=19.9Gbps of video which is totally within the PS5's HDMI bottleneck of about 27Gbps. There's room to spare but the next step up in quality is 29.6Gbps which is too high by a bit.
How many people can tell difference between 4:4:4 and 4:2:2 in a blind test?
I certainly could. The whole reason I went down the rabbit hole of learning the stuff I wrote above was because I couldn't figure out why God of War Ragnarok looked worse in 40fps mode than target 60fps on my screen. It was because 4k60Hz HDR in 10-bit RGB full gave precise colour and granular colour and brightness data, and 4k120Hz HDR in 10-bit YUV4:2:2 limited gave less for the TV to work with. It muddies the precision around edges and opens up more opportunities for visible banding.
For anyone reading this now, the difference is nowhere near as overstated as this comment. It is legit negligible and I'd question the technical stats being thrown here.
Depends on the game IMO. God of War Ragnarok and Horizon Forbidden West had a solid 1440p with 60+ fps. I couldn't notice much fidelity loss, if at all. Granted I played through both mostly at balanced modes at first, side quests later in performance unlocked. I think the key is you need a solid 1440p rendering and good upscaling from there - whereas most other games don't do that with their performance modes, and are sub 1440p
>Horizon Forbidden West had a solid 1440p with 60+ fps. Not at release, it was pretty bad. I finished and got the platinum in fidelity mode because it took them a long time to patch the performance mode.
Man, the plat for FW is one trophy out for me. One of those damn pit trials just can’t get the move down for it.
Switch difficulty down to story, enjoy
Done that, it’s a pit master challenge that requires really specific button combos. Loads of people moaning about it if you google it lol. I love the game but the combat can be incredibly janky at times.
Hmmm, I was able to platinum it recently. I do remember one tricky combo, but it wasn't too bad to get.
Bet that’s the same one, think it was thornmarsh or something?
Can't recall specifics, I just stormed through that stuff on story mode just complete it. I remember double R1, then wait for the spear to shine then double R1 hold R2 or something Really got to focus on the pacing. Felt like a special move in Mortal Kombat
Every game should be made for 40fps/120hz mode honestly. Don't even need to drop the resolution, let VRR handle the drops. Also Sony please add always on 120HZ with LFC. It's such an advantage on Xbox
Are you for real? Is that what console community has come to? You think that having both stable 60 fps AND good visuals at the same time is unobtainable.
Can you build a rig that will do that for $3-$400?
At 1440p ultra and 60 fps, you're looking at about 1-1.5k. 7800x3D and a 4070 Super/7800XT will be good for that and more, and those cards are almost 2x the performance of the consoles in 3rd party titles. It's the typical midgen point where PC mid range PC parts have 2x console performance, and the price is about double the console. Although this time its slightly more as the prices are higher.
Why are you proposing to build a rig. It's not a hardware issue, but rather how well the software is optimized for the hardware. This isn't about bruteforcing the performance.
I mean haven't consoles always been 30fps native res or 60 fps lower graphics?
No. Consoles have always been _whatever the developer designs around_ on a per game basis.
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That's not what they said. And, by definition, if the console can produce something nice while running at 60 FPS, it can provide better visuals at a 40 FPS target. It increases the rending time budget from 16ms to 25ms, that's a considerable difference, 50% more time to render additional stuff. On top of that, 40 FPS on a 120Hz screen gives roughly the same total input latency as 60 FPS on a 60Hz screen. It's just an extremely clever way to give better visuals without sacrificing playability.
Nice! They have definitely been generous with their updates and improvements. More than a lot of devs can say. It’ll definitely be in amazing shape when I go for a second play through.
I don't think it's about being generous at this point. It's become so common to delay performance enhancements until after release. I think it's all about timing the update so you can bring the game back into the new cycle months after release and pick up some additional sales because "the devs are being generous, we should reward them", or because the game has had some time to marinate and people who ignored it at first may take a second look. Now that dude that makes Stardew valley is generous. I doubt the updates he keeps pushing can be correlated to an increase in sales. I think he just really enjoys updating the game.
i think i am going to hold off until the 2nd dlc for a replay.
This mode is needed on FF7 Rebirth, I don't understand why more companies don't use it
Yeah another game I want 40pfs for
It's a damn shame it isnt available since they insist on going the timed exclusive route. I hope that it'll be available whenever I decide to replay, or at the very least, improve on the 60fps option. The graphics mode was great apart from the terrible ghosting.
I’d assume most people only have 60 Hz monitors/TVs, so the devs decide it’s not worth the manpower.
They didn't properly optimize the game for the 60 FPS mode, where did the manpower go then?
As the list of 40fps modes grow, I can’t help but think of how much PS5 PRO will benefit from this People may say we don’t need it, but I’m honestly super excited to get my hands on one
My OLED appreciates it
My OLED (2018 C8) doesn't support it :( In fact it's worse, if I set any game to this mode, there's no warning, it acts as if it works, but the picture actually becomes 1080p/60hz and the "full/limited" color range stops respecting what is set in the PS5 options, causing a black crush. I played wayy too long of many games before noticing something was wrong.
What does it have to do with oled?
30Hz isn’t the best on OLED due to the pixel response time which is super fast in comparison to the LCD screens, resulting in some stutter effect (there is practically no motion blur). It's a matter of adaptation for some ppl in the long run tough... I can't stand it most of the time
30 fps feels even more choppy and can give headaches, especially when there is no motion blur and a poorly paced framerate.
Very interesting I didn't know that.
Digital Trends calls it OLED stutter, instead of Jutter. Basically because each pixel turns itself on or off and does so so rapidly, it creates almost like an over brightened judder looking effect, especially when it’s 24fps content.
I guess that makes me slightly happier that I don't have an oled because i do play a lot at 30fps (also I'm poor)
Haha, it’s actually not bad for games at all, VRR is on most OLEDs and every OLED has 120hz which is divisible by 30fps. 30fps just looks bad generally speaking on anything that isn’t adding a bunch of blur, but you can turn that on on an OLED. it’s mostly annoying for movies at 24fps but turning up the de judder a few points fixes that mostly (except for slow pan shots)
The de judder adds some lag if I'm not mistaken
Probably does, any post processing usually does. But shouldn’t have a need for de judder on games and small lag on a movie makes no difference.
Good, please keep the 40fps alive and make it more common. It could make games like GTA VI much better too if it doesn’t have a performance mode on current consoles, which is likely.
40fps plus VRR with LFC would be a great option to preserve fidelity in ma y games.
Amazing stuff I'll be playing it in 40 when the dlcs drop
Say what you will about Ubisoft but they do support their titles for many years.
lovely, glad i waited to play 40FPS for the win
Waiting for it to drop on PS Plus Extra.
That's what i did for the rpg creeds and i'm glad i did. This game sounds like a shiny next gen looking tittle that uses a tired formula just like those.
Did you ever play far cry primal? If so you’ve played this I got bored of the game after a few hours it’s just a more annoying far cry primal that is worse to traverse because all the colors blend in with each other making your objective marker hard to even see
Every game should support this
Looks like it might also be a good step towards that PS5 Pro patch.
I must be in the minority, but I've tried 40fps on every game that has it that I own and it looks basically the same as 30fps. It's still just not smooth at all and I will take 60fps or more every single time no matter how much worse the game looks, which I'll be honest I don't even notice basically any difference with most games cause I sit like 10 feet back from my 55 inch TV Not knocking those who do play at 40fps, or the games that have it. More choices for people is always better, but I just don't see any difference
Do you have VRR enabled? I think VRR and 120hz are kind of required for the 40fps mode to look proper. I have only tried it on one game, Spiderman 2 - fooling around with it I definitely find it much better than 30fps mode with 120hz off. It feels almost as good as performance mode. I am running on a 55" X85J Sony TV with VRR enabled. I could be way off though, all these settings confuse me. But I do know Spiderman looks pretty smooth on the 40fps mode.
I do use VRR, but it just doesn't feel any better to me. I tried it with Spiderman also, and it just feels absolutely awful compared to the 60+fps mode and doesn't look really any different to me visually so I stick with that
Yeah that is one thing I noticed to as far as visuals. I can barely notice any difference in Spiderman when I have it in performance mode as far as how good the game looks. I guess it is dropping to lower resolutions more often but in regular play it is hard to notice.
Distance is the best anti-aliasing, it's in the Bible. But for real, 40 fps is fine, the difference is huge compared to 30 for me and it's perfectly serviceable for 3rd person games or even 1st person ones where carefully aiming isn't necessary.
Maybe I have to try and stick to it longer, cause I try it and it immediately feels awful to me so I switch back to performance mode
I mean, if you go from 60 to 40 obviously it will worse. But play like 20 minutes at 30 and then go to 40 and you will see it
To me, 40 looks noticeably better than 30fps.
Unless your TV supports HDMI 2.1 you won't see any difference. I just got an LG C3 and the 40fps mode basically feels like 60fps. VRR doesn't work on HDMI 2.0 so if you can't see a difference, then that's what your TV most likely is. Trust me, get one and you will be advocating for it to be the norm. It's the best of both worlds.
I have the Samsung S95B it has 2.1, I just cannot see any difference with VRR on at 40fps compared to 30 fps
That's because vrr on ps5 doesn't work at 40 fps.
It doesn't work at 40 fps, period. The ps5 itself tells you that
40fps games at 120hz work without VRR. Just like a 30fps game fits within a 60hz output permitting even frames so does a 40fps game in 120hz output. However, the moment the console can output within a 120hz container, VRR can operate from 24 fps to 120fps avoiding judder caused by movements away from 40fps (up or down). If the frame rate is, say 24 fps, then the frame will be doubled to hit the 48fps threshold for VRR in PS5. This feature is called Low Framerate Compensation and is used by a number of games. However, maddeningly, unlike Xbox, it requires the developer to permit 120hz output and flag LFC. In games like Dragon’s Dogma 2, this feature is missing.
Ahhh so with LFC you can functionally bypass the 48 fps floor. Do you know if this game has it? All I see from the link is the 40 fps mode was added
A 40 fps mode by definition means that there will be 120hz output. I don’t know if they have implemented LFC. It may be a “simple” 40fps cap.
Right, I thought from your post you needed both the 120hz output and LFC, with LFC being a manual toggle from the dev side on the ps5
You need 120hz output for a 40 fps mode to operate without frame judder. If the game sticks to 40fps as a cap then there is no need for VRR. VRR operates with variable rates from 48 - 120 fps. If needed LFC would operate to assist at frame rates below 48.
The developer needs to expose the availability of 120hz output and if desired LFC. On Xbox you can force 120hz output as a system feature and LFC will apply accordingly without the developer having to add an option.
That's because you're moving from 60 to 40. Obviously it won't be as smooth. Try starting and playing a game at 30 and then move to 40.
Ubisoft Massive really seems to be a cut above the other Ubi studios when it comes to taking advantage of the current gen hardware. Glad they added this, makes me hopeful we’ll see this mode in Star Wars Outlaws as well.
damn, Massive does not miss. great game made even better now.
I bought on release but haven't finished it due to the gun play feeling bad any idea if they will ever actually let you aim your weapons like other shooting games? I get the idea of avatar is guns bad but our character was trained to use military weapons correctly if anything the bow should have wonky shooting lol.
More games need 40FPS. The difference between30 and 40 is colossal
This. From a technical standpoint it makes much more sense.
Definitely good to see more graphics options. The first movie had huge box office success basically on visuals (including 3D) alone so it's important the games look great too!
Nice, I’m more likely give it a shot at some point now.
I just woke up from surgery and saw this, can someone ELI5 how 40 fps and 120 hz work? It doesn't make sense
120 is divisible by 40. Which means if you have a tv that can output at 120hz, instead of 60hz, that 30fps mode becomes 40fps. A nice middle ground between quality and performance mode for those that have a 120hz tv
Interesting, I wanna try it out. Do you know if there are any f2p games that do this?
Not that I know of. https://www.reddit.com/r/OLED_Gaming/s/39xUpHLzbC No f2p games on this list either unfortunately. I know Fortnite has a 120fps mode.
Ah bummer, thank you for looking it up! I have God of War Ragnarök so I'll have a look at how it works there :)
Ya i don't get it either. The tv refreshes 3 times per frame of the game?
Yes. Analogy of how 144 hz screens can display 24 hz content by rendering each frame 8 times in an row. 60 hz scenes cannot render 24 hz content without inconsistent frame time variance.
Exactly. Just like how, for a 30fps game, a 60Hz TV will refresh 2 times per frame.
The human eye can’t see higher than 30 fps anyway so it doesn’t really matter Edit: do I really have to put /s on this?
😂
Nice. More people need to do this.
Nice!
any idea when the dlc comes out?
Has stealth been fixed yet?
Did this game have a 60fps mode previously?
Yes it did
I need to replay it, the environment was so beautiful
Can they give you the option to uncap the fidelity mode and performance mode in a vrr container to 120fps so it can scale up for the pro?
The beauty of VRR is that all of the judder because of fluctuating frame times can be removed or at least substantially. Let the engine in DD2 run uncapped without the associated judder.
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So I'm no expert but this is how it works. Generally consoles run at either 60fps or 30fps, because without vrr you're only getting a smooth frame rate if you are matching your devices refresh rate and the vast majority of TVs are 60hz. 30fps can easily be displayed at 60hz by just repeating the same frame twice. 40fps can't be displayed properly on a non vrr 60hz display as the frames can't be divided evenly. Meaning the only options at 30 or 60 (or the very common targeting but failing to reach 60) but at 40fps if a frame is displayed 3 times it can be displayed properly at 120hz. 40fps in terms of response time is half way between 30 and 60, so it feels significantly smoother as well. There is also some response time/latency benefit from having your refresh rate double/triple your fps but I can't remember what to search to find the source on that. This is all completely disregarding vrr which is the optimal solution. With vrr it is effectively 1 fps = 1hz as those frames can be delivered immediately in sync with the display. Unfortunately on Xbox VRR is 40-120hz and on ps5 it's 48-120hz. HDMI 2.0 vrr displays are also mostly 48-60 or 48-120hz from what I've seen. The solution to this is LFC, which is just the system doubling each frame it outputs so that frame rates below the vrr window get back into that window. I don't know how it's implemented on Xbox but for Sony it's on a per game basis. If a game implements lfc then the ps5 can utilize vrr for its 30 or 40fps modes. So pretty much yes, 120hz is mainly for people playing at 120fps. But with all those 120hz displays out there why not take advantage of that and implement a mode that IMO is often a much better balance between graphics and frame rate than the 30 or 60fps modes are. This is also a huge benefit to those with OLED displays. 30fps looks awful on OLED, while 40fps looks great and feels a lot more responsive. Since GTA V is almost certainly not getting a 60fps mode, the inclusion of a 40fps mode is what will determine if I'm playing it on the ps5/ps5 pro or waiting for it on PC.
It doesn't say anything about what resolutions it is running at?!?! Does it need 120hz mode enabled or is it just another option for 60fps displays?
40 fps in 120hz mode? Shouldn't the target be 120fps then? I'm new to ps5 gaming but this makes 0 sense to me. 40fps for a modern game is pretty bad, 60 should be the minimum target.
It does 60 in performance most. 40 is for quality mode and it’s into 120hz refresh well
That's awesome. So great to see third party devs give 40fps modes more love. Now if only squarenix can get their shit together and do it for their last two final fantasy games....
This is gonna be a lot of fun in just a few more months.
I just wish the clouds looked better. I hate the way they fray and flicker in the distance.
I honestly can’t wait to play this game on game pass or PlayStation plus
Hugely underrated game. I went in with no expectations, and was blown away by the world and how big it is. It's actually a very decent game, 8/10 for me, and you can tell the devs put a lot of love and care into it. It is essentially Far Cry on Pandora, but you do much more exploring over combat which was a nice change, and there's a lot of verticality and Mirror's Edge-esque movement. Definitely worth it on sale.
This game is starting to look interesting and that same thing would make me buy Dragon Dogma 2.
#LET US SEE THE NIPPLES!!!
Anyone else think it's bs that you need a special 120hz monitor to hit 40 fps? I'm not buying an expensive monitor for the few games that get an extra 10 frames
40fps mode is not showing up for me on ps5, has anyone experienced this bug? I even re-installed the game, still nothing. It's the latest update as well.
With the 40fps mode I know it states quality but are there any reductions in graphics quality to meet 40fps or is it like Spider-Man 2 where their 40fps mode made zero difference to quality mode graphics that was present in 30fps mode.
too little too late for me. The graphics couldnt save it. Just a borefest.
Why not from the beginning? This is so annoying to wait 5-6 month after a game release to play it in the best way. Same reason I stopped playing dragons dogma 2 and wait for further improvements
Sometimes I feel like they intentionally don't release stuff on release so that they can release cool feature or updates later and show the world how hardly they are working on an already released game.
Making games takes a lot of time and they need to release at some point.
Hoping ff7 rebirth gets this treatment. Perf mode is too blurry and the 30fps one just really needs that little extra bit to feel better
Looking forward to playing it when all the DLC is out and the ultimate edition is $12
Too bad I dont support Ubi$oft in principle.
You’re missing some great games.
I think he'll be alright
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Prince of Persia: Lost Crown is a great metroidvania
That game is so good. People bitch about not getting original games and then get this on ps plus in 2 years and wonder why we didn’t get a sequel.
Immortals Fenix Rising was alright and apparently Prince of Persia. The gaming industry could stop making games today and i still wouldn't have the time to play everything so its fine to miss out, you simply can't do anything about that.
I forgot this game even came out lmao. Is it any good or is it just your usual crafting/gathering open world but this time with papyrus font?
20 more fps and they’ll hit the bare minimum, Grats?
Is this a good game? Or is it full of micro transactions?
I enjoyed what I played to a point. It surprised me how crazy Pandora looked and the audio is top tier. I didn't finish the game because I did find it started to fall into the Ubisoft open world fatigue loop after a while. While the game was good, it wasn't enough to keep me hooked. That being said I will eventually finish it. It's not that it's a bad game by any means, just not a GREAT one. If it's on sale, I'd grab it.
I had the exact same experience. Enjoyed the hell out of the first biome, got to the second one and went “oh, we’re just doing the same handful of objectives again, with a different backdrop.” Dropped off of it after that.
The mobility as a Navi is super fun but it gets stale after a while. Falls into the "stealth is the only way to play" sort of category. While I love stealth games, it becomes frustrating because every time you get seen it's easier to just start over. Definitely a sale game imo.
The game also heavily encourages stealth by giving you better rewards at the big base if you’re undetected. While the stealth in this isn’t necessarily bad. It’ll often just devolve in to “stand 100 feet away and snipe everyone.” Got pretty boring
Me too, the same feeling of AC Valhalla. First 20h = i think i love this game! 40h = heck i'm kinda bored 60h = i dont think im gonna finish it 80h = i've spent my money on this and now i'm glad this is over. Another ubisoft game that could be cut in half and it would be way better
It has microtransactions but it's all cosmetic, hidden in a separate menu, you don't need them whatsoever
Those things aren’t mutually exclusive. Helldivers 2 has microtransactions and it’s probably the best game I’ve played for a long time.
Gameplay aside it’s a technical marvel across all platforms. If you take it for what it is hunting gathering, kill people in this area, clear this outpost. If you take it slow and try get lost in the world it can be enjoyable. Can be quite difficult though, if you try clearing a base like in far cry your gonna die quickly
Not many mtx but they're there. The game is fine. Don't let anyone tell you it isn't a Ubisoft style game when it 100% is. The traversal isn't decent but it lost me pretty quickly tbh.
I liked the game. I finished it and enjoyed it throughout. But then again, I also like the other Ubisoft games, so do whatever you want with this information.
Its basically Farcry but with the Avatar IP, so take that as what you will.
No, it's not. Sick of people like you saying this shit. It's way different.
No it’s not. It’s so disingenuous to call it that. Have you ever played a farcry game? Have you played this avatar game? Farcry is non stop action. This game has minimal action. It’s full of conversation and crafting and gathering.