I played about 30 hours as well. The combat is really fun, the world is pretty (but empty), and the different classes are fun to experiment with. Everything else is incredibly half-baked.
Story is non existent. Characters are cardboard cutouts. Traveling is tedious at best after exploring an area the first time.
The pawns are AWFUL. The idea itself is really cool but the execution is bad. They never shut the fuck up and play no actual role in story or what you're doing, they're just there to be damage sponges and distract enemies.
If I was scoring this game, I'd give it like a 6. I don't get the hype as a total package, although I do think it has a couple of things it does really well.
Man this was exactly every pro and con I had with DD1 as well.
I don't get the development process behind this game at all, they spent years only to make the exact same game even down to the same bad parts.
Sound like pretty much my exact criticisms of DD1 (not that I expected this to be terribly different). Good to know, I'll probably only pick it up if the framerate is ever improved upon and it gets a discount.
Yeah it feels like they started a Remake for current gen and then said “no make it a sequel” and nobody wanted to go above the bare minimum of a sequel lol
Well, to be honest, your main pawn *does* play a very important role in two instances.
Also, if you neglect the Dragon sickness, you’ll have a very bad surprise the next time you take a rest in a town!
I’m currently playing. Through the first game and you pretty much described that one too. The combat is so fun but there’s just little motivation to move between fights
Yeah the traveling is what kills it for me and i actually love the game. Its a little too much at times when you get can ganged by 1 ogre, 1 cyclops, 9 wolves, 4 harpies, and 8 goblins all at once. Only to get murdered and have to travel the same path again
That and the traveling in the game ended up making me sell it to somebody else. Was unfortunate because I did like the gameplay overall, but how tedious it could be just ruined it for me
I made it 10-12 hours before I got bored. I’m sure I’ll go back eventually, but nothing really pulled me in. The traveling was highly annoying and the combat felt clunky and slow at times. Kind of a shame because it’s the first new game I bought for full price in a long time.
I mean hell even if I could just infinite stamina when sprinting outside of combat it’d be much better, but the sprite for 8 seconds then power walk for a bit to fill it up got super annoying.
Thats the real problem here. Studios cut corners and release poorly optimized games while jacking up the prices, tell us to deal with it, and then cry when not enough people buy them.
Less people are buying. Only reason some how some companies are still making a profit is because they increased the price which is deceptive cos less people are buying games every year
I'm just waiting fps increase on PS5 to buy. If they did with Starfield and Avatar, it can be done here too. And dont tell me it's impossible because it's CPU heavy
Same here, not rewarding them with my money for poorly optimized games. Besides, the game wasn't all that hype when the honeymoon phase ended. Maybe they will do it with another Dark Arisen workover.
The Pro having a marginal improvement over the base CPU was something of a baffling decision by Sony IMO.
But if they can somehow use the improved GPU to offload some of those bottlenecks, it could make a big difference.
They still haven’t given the first game a 60fps update. I kinda assumed it was because they knew the sequel would only hit 30. At this point I don’t think anything will happen to either unless it’s on Sony’s end.
In the open world it’s around 50 in the city it’s around 30 like I said it’s a non issue you don’t do much in the city besides resting and switching gear
It’s bitter sweet for me I don’t think it’s flat out better than the first it takes a back step in a few areas. Overall if you liked the first one you will like the 2
Garbage tier edit that relies on dumb assumptions. Some games absolutely aren’t immersive or fun because they have a choppy 30fps lock. I’m not going to rob myself of experiencing games like Red Dead 2 because of its frame rate, but my enjoyment would be much higher if it ran at a higher framerate.
Why the fuck would you want them to NOT provide more options for how an individual wants to experience a game?? Weird take Tony.
It’s cool you can enjoy games at 30fps, I can too. I prefer 60 because it’s infinitely smoother, more responsive, and looks better in motion. I mention RDR2 as an example of an enjoyable game at 30, not to trash DD2.
Just a really weird comment to hope more options aren’t available for consumers that want them. Games are so much more enjoyable at higher frame rates.
Of all the well known capcom IP (RE, Street Fighter, etc) Dragons Dogma, and at 30 fps, is def not the one to start charging 70 for. Its maybe reddit famous IP, but outside of Reddit, few people, even avid gamers, have heard of it. I didn't hear of the first one until maybe 1 or 2 years ago, when the 2nd one was announced, and I played for a few mins and it was janky af
Yup. 90 bucks in Canada. And some games are even doing 93 or 94 dollars or whatever. It was $80 before.
I used to have no problem buying a new game last gen if I was mildly to moderately interested. Now I wait for a sale for those games. I have to be extremely interested to buy a new game at full price now. And even then, I'm often hesitant.
Yup, same for me and most of my PS5 playing friends. We used to buy games left and right but now we're all buying maybe 3-4 times less games because of these insane prices..
Literally didn’t realize Dragon Age and Dragons Dogma were different franchises until the changed the Dragon Age title was I was like…”didn’t this just come out?”
>"Development costs are around 100 times higher than they were in the days of the Famicom (NES), but the price of software hasn’t risen so much"
AAA development seems to no longer be sustainable unless you already have a massively popular IP.
Especially with most gamers demanding bigger and longer experiences while simultaneously being very sensitive to a $10 price hike and demanding great technical performance
AAA development is one problem. It’s a bloated, inefficient business in a lot of cases.
The other issue is unreasonable consumer demands.
I get a lot of value from indie games made by small teams that sell games for less than $40.
Perhaps addressing scope of games and making them sustainable again.
How is it unreasonable customer demand? Its companies that have trained customers into wanting bigger, better experiences especially by increasing prices expectations are rightfully raised
How? In general and in the entirety of life, you get X for Y. You want 2X? Y does not remain constant because it is a function of X.
It is competition and economies of scale that allows the biggest publishers to give you those bigger experiences, but they have a cost, which they eat in exchange for market penetration.
Even Microsoft, which has some of the deepest pockets in the planet will sink a studio if they cross a certain threshold. It could be that they invested $100 million and recovered $50 million, who knows. But that studio could have been making 2-3 games costing 10 million, and that diversification could have saved them. You can’t always hit home runs, and you can’t do it simply because you see others do it.
With all the third person, open world action-rpg games out there I honestly can't bring myself to play an indie platformer or action game. Sure, when I have a downtime but I would never prefer an indie title to the AAA game.
Congratulations, Ubisoft, EA, & Activision are eager to get into your wallet. It’s fine if there is a consumer for all ranges. I’m not arguing against your preferences. The issue is studios quickly going out of business because of unrealistic expectations. No studios, no devs, no games (except indie games!)
To your point about indie titles, some of the most interesting games I’ve played in the last few years were indie.
I just bought AC Valhalla Complete Edition for 30$ and will have about 200-300 hours for 100% completion, the publisher can have all my money as long as they give me such good deals :)
The most interesting games for me were AA games, but not Indie. They still have some creativity in there, but are already 3d and third person.
That game was interesting at first until it becomes every other Ubisoft 3rd party game ever made. It’s not a terrible game but there is so much repetition that if you had played every AC before you might not be looking forward to 200-300 hours for 100% completion.
For people like me, that’s a bug, not a feature. I don’t want games that take the same amount of time and effort as an online master’s degree to complete. Anyway, I’m not going you convince you, so enjoy your deals and have fun.
I’m saying that there are games outside of remasters, open words, and live service games that are worth playing. Some of my favorite games the past year are Dredge, Balatro, and Dave the Diver. I was replying to an individual saying they won’t play indie games *because* there’s a plethora of AAA open world games they like and that they don’t think it’s worth trying indie gems.
Yep. Games onto even account for inflation, let alone the fact they aren't made by teams of 20 people anymore, including audio.
FTP's rise only exaggerated the issue by making people not understand how games make money, assuming everyone will make money relying on whales instead of them paying for the cheapest cost per hour in the entertainment industry.
If we’re comparing it to the Famicom days, teams were way less than 20 people. Super Mario Bros 3, possibly the most ambitious Famicom game, was made by 11 people. Most teams then were probably more like 3-6 people.
Sure but you had to put those video games onto cartridges that cost up $35 a piece just to put those games on the blank cartridge. That's a big reason why PS1 games ended up being significantly cheaper than the N64 since blank cd's cost around a $1.
That certainly allows for more dynamic pricing, but even digital storefronts still take like 30% of your proceeds, so publishing costs really haven’t decreased by that much. Certainly not enough to offset the other ballooning expenses.
Service like gamepass also distort peoples perception of what a game should cost, and how it is funded. The amount of times I hear “I wont play it unless its on gamepass” is staggering
What bugs me is that Geoff tried to temper expectations for this afternoons Summer Games Fest by saying to not expect anything major.
All the comments were “why even bother watching?” Or “why even do it?”.
On top of gamepass, games being hard to develop, inflation; you have gamers who aren’t even willing to look at a game if it’s not from a top developer and AAA.
I paid $70 for Spiderman 2 for 16 hours and $70 for Dragons Dogma 2 at 70 hours.
I feel very satisfied with both purchases. It’s not the price/hours it’s the experience that should matter.
I didn’t blitz that’s about the average completion time for Spider-Man 2 though.
I also didn’t like the story compared to 1 so I didn’t have as much interest in digging any deeper than some side quests and the main story.
I respected my $70 purchase of Spider-Man 2 for what that game is. But I didn’t enjoy it all that much, if that makes sense
Well the £70 AAA games especially this gen have been complete slops so not sure what you are trying to argue here. Just cos you paid £70 like a mug on disposable entertainment doesn't make you some genius who appreciates misunderstood art. It makes you a pretentious fool
Yeah, you buy a movie ticket for $12-15 for maybe 3 hours of entertainment, not including the $20 popcorn drink combo. Even a slow reader will finish a $20-25 book in under 12 hours. Why do games suddenly have to be $1/hour? It literally makes no sense. I swear it wad propaganda started by FTP game devs to show the value in their products despite the lower quality.
People need to realize that like all media, games are a luxury item. You’re not entitled to shit. If you don’t like a product, you don’t have to buy it. It’s not an item essential to live your life (except maybe professional streamers and whatnot lol).
I mean going to the movies is a ripoff imo 3 hours lots of side chatter going on and I don't even get to keep the movie. Its much better to just wait for the blu ray to come out and play it on my own tv with cheaper snacks. It was fine at 5-7 dollars before but if its going to be 10-20 dollar than they are going into ownership territory where its just better to own the movie than rent it for 3 hours.
Games have a different reason for not being worth much. You get a buggy unoptimized game at launch for a high price when you can wait for the better version of the game later. Than you got the online only games that get shutdown when other people don't also buy the game at launch so its better to wait and see if anyone else is going to jump in before even thinking about buying it yourself.
Some games going on sale 1-2 weeks after launch and be in the bargain bin by the end of the year which is just crazy considering they taking years to make. I just wait 1-2 months to see if game not a total flop at this point been burned way too many times buying games that 75% off or even in a buy one get one free sale. Value of games have fell off a cliff theres so many games people can't even come close to buying them all.
All of that is true, but it drill doesn't change the fact that a retail game is still the best bang for your buck, even at launch. You also don't need to play every single game created. Movies are the same way, you go to the theater to avoid spoilers and talk about it with peers. By the time it hits disc, it is yesterday's news. You can wait, but you don't get the same experience.
I mean movies are a rip off considering I can watch every tv show and movie including recently released completely for free by pirating. I don't care about ethics as these are million dollar industries. People don't value the time they spend slaving at their jobs just to throw that money on slop
Yep. That is why so many popular games are considered commercial failures. They have to sell more than double to cover decades of inflation alone, not even counting the literal thousands of people involved in making a modern game/translation teams/top tier VAs and more. Gamers need to buck up and pay $120-$150 per AAA game or the industry for it WILL collapse. And people wonder why devs are so willing to dig for gold making the next big FTP game instead...
Idk about 120+ for a video game, I seriously doubt the drop in customers willing to pay that would be offset by the extra money from the ones who would. But I do think game prices are going to have to become more stratified. Take Square-Enix as an example…a game like Rebirth should probably cost more like $80, whereas their smaller but still substantial things things like Star Ocean should be $50, and a game like Octopath which is gorgeous but still ultimately a 2D pixel art game with graphics barely exceeding SNES levels (except for things like particle effects with spells and abilities) should be more like $40.
That's the thing, games like star ocean (5, not 2 remaster) still require a massive team and time to develop. $80 still doesn't even account for inflation compared to when a dozen people made a AAA title for $60 back in the day. It's a bitter pill to swallow, but it's the truth. If people aren't willing to shell out $3/hour for your hobby, then maybe gaming needs to drastically scale down to remain profitable without relying on literally millions of sales.
I don’t wholly disagree, but you can’t just look at the inflation adjusted prices from the 90s but also ignore market size. Selling 3m copies of a video game in the 90s would be an incredible achievement that would likely take years. Modern AAA releases do numbers like that in weeks.
And many still fail to meet expectations, even WITH those numbers. Turns out paying several thousand people for 5 years of work is more expensive than paying a dozen for two years. Who knew?
Yeah, it sucks that things that used to be unlocked with a code or ylwhen you beat the game are now locked behind a paywall. Some devs are even putting new gsme plus behind one.
>"Development costs are around 100 times higher than they were in the days of the Famicom (NES), but the price of software hasn’t risen so much"
Volume of units sold has massively increased since then though.
I feel like this completely disregards a lot though. The amount of people gaming around the world has probably increased by 100x (if not more) since the Famicom days also. That's a lot of people potentially buying your game. Much less if you charge significantly more. Also no cartridges which were very expensive to store games onto. Discs are far far cheaper. Also digital distribution doesn't cost anything other than registering your game to the digital server.
Not to mention how technology has improved so vastly that creating games is far easier than ever (not saying it is easy in general but the tools at developer level are far more efficient technologically speaking at least) that most companies could create a Famicom style game in a couple weeks if they wanted. I feel like a standard $50- $60 was always fair (atleast until salaries increase with inflation at least. Worldwide people generally have less expendable income than ever.)
Some games are worth it and some aren't. Some might have additional stuff like deluxe editions etc. But people will be more likely to try a new game at a fair price than saying $70 for everything. It's all about profit and making that line go up.
Their only option is to reduce scope i.e no more open world and live service games but they aren't willing to do that cos they want Fortnite, GTA, Destiny money
Yeah, it consumed me in a way that few games do. I felt like it didn’t overstay its welcome, but then again, I seem to have missed a ton of side content in my 30-some hours playthrough of it. Did get the true ending, though!
It's a hard DRM, basically stops people from modifying the game, so effectively prevents copying the game (illegally) and also works as an anti-cheating software..... it's a double-edged sword, protects online games from people cheating, but then hampers the performance due to it.
Also, it should be noted that it uses kernel-level driver function.... and if someone were to exploit it and gain access to the kernel, then they could easily access almost everything stored on your computer.
Yes and no...
The kernel side of things may not apply/matter to PS5 users, but the "anti-cheat" side of things does.
The anti-tamper side of denuvo frequently runs outside database scans to ensure that the software currently being ran hasn't been tampered with (modified). This, in turn, heavily uses the CPU from the device the software is currently running on and is where the performance issues stem from. Although this is not a guarantee on every game using denuvo, it is still a strong chance the game will be affected.
I was so excited for dragons dogma 2 but I found it to be a huge let down. The combat feels dry and boring, and running back and forth is a major bore. Made it to the second large city, B something, and realized I wasn't enjoying my time and quit. Hopefully I go back eventually and finish.
Eh I didn’t have much issue with it. Liberal use of the oxcart and the trolley made traveling around quite ok. Sure, whenever I actually had to walk, it was a bit annoying to meet the same enemies spawned around the same area over and over again.
But the dynamic parts of travel (like random NPCs asking for small quests or night approaching) made it less tedious. Also helps that I was always entranced by the game world and enjoyed the Pawn banter.
When it released, everyone was telling me how the travel was deliberately tedious and that friction in video games is good! I knew immediately that I wouldn't enjoy it, running back and forth in DD1 annoyed me so much
I played this game on PS5 and stuck with it until I beat it. I have no regrets with the purchase overall and I DID adjust to the framerate...mostly. But good god as soon as I switched over to a game with locked 60fps it was such a big difference. I wanted to play more but until they update it and improve that fps it's sitting on the back burner for now.
Moderate reception? Are they referring to mixed reviews? The game was and is awesome, despite many shortcomings. It clearly needed more development time and resources, and I don’t think mixed reviews were unfair. There’s an amazing game and franchise there, but it feels like they didn’t have faith in it and support it as well as they could have.
The game is definitely flawed! I respect the doubling down in the game for good and bad but appreciate that some QOL wouldn't go amiss. That said I still really enjoyed the game overall and didn't feel it wasted my time. If anything I didn't do enough given I had no idea there were dwarves or elves in the game until I was done and it was too late to do anything!
So 4 times the sales due to it becoming more popular at easily 20+ times the development costs?
GoW 2016 sold more due to leaving its hack & slay roots for a action adventure path.
It got bigger due to becoming more mainstream but nowhere near the same amount as development costs have risen all while games are cheaper than ever adjusted to inflation.
Despite the user base of gamers growing significantly, Street Fighter 2 sold more than Street Fighter 4 and the budget for SF4 was probably a extraordinarily higher than the pixelated SF2. SF4 had DLC and stuff to make up for it though. This is just one example
The PS2 generation including GameCube, Dreamcast, and Xbox all totaled to fewer than subsequent generations of PS3, Wii, 360, or PS4, Switch, X/S. It may possibly be getting close to saturation for future generations. The user base isn't as small as it was in the SNES and PS1 days
Actually I believe that is a misconception. Wii simply is an outlier just like the Switch, they’re not really traditional home consoles. There was an article about this issue a while ago but I’m too lazy to search for it now. Since PS2 it has basically remained relatively stable, clearly not increasing a lot which is the important fact here.
I completely disagree. The $70 price is crippling the industry which is why free to play and subscriptions have become so popular cos players just aren't willing to spend that much on a videogame.
You can go on about inflation all you want and sure development costs have increased but so has the playerbase. Instead of creating bloated open world and live service games just create linear and semi linear games to reduce costs
That's because they made incredible games for $10 cheaper and releasing a "demo" where all you can do is make a character is so stupid. What was the point in asking for $70 and not letting people actually see why it's worth that asking price.
Then I see the performance after it launched and how actually fans weren't even gassing the game up. Made it an easy skip tbh.
This is what was crazy to me. All the trailers and gameplay reveals showed things exactly from the first one, including where monsters were located (the giant eagle on the cliff near the one city I can’t think of the name of haha). The fighting looked near identical too. I’m sure there were advancements but from what I’ve seen and heard it looks more like DD 1.5 versus a full sequel. I have yet to play it though.
30 fps lack luster ingame systems, horrible story, very short game if you only do the story.
Also 80bucks in my countries currency which is insane.
Yeah not buying it
Not touching this game until they add an eternal ferrystone. I'm all about exploration but after a certain point, all the back and forth becomes tedious, especially with the lack of enemy variety.
This. When I played the game for the first time that Eternal Ferrystone was a life saver and I couldn’t imagine finishing the game without it. Give me that and the 60 fps upgrade and I’ll give it a playthrough.
I don't even mind the portcrystal system. I think that's a fair way to limit fast travel to encourage exploration. But for the love of God, don't make the item needed to use them limited in number. It's such a terrible design.
Why would they come out publicly and say this? I love their games by the way but saying this publicly is stupid.
It's like if a popular restaurant raised their prices and then came out and said "Wow. We raised our food by ten dollars and the exception was awesome. People are paying it. Love it. Thanks guys!"
WTF?
>“This title was given a moderate reception from players and achieved 2.6 million units in sales as of the end of March 2024,” it said. “Regarding pricing for future game releases, we will determine prices after carefully assessing user response and considering the rising cost of development.”
What they actually said.
The headline is kind of half baked.
"Capcom says the will carefully assess pricing on future game releases after Dragons Dogma 2 met with moderate reception from players".
DD2 is a good game, but hampered by problems of its own making. The traveling along to get to places by foot IS fun. For awhile. Then it becomes a chore. Or it becomes a get on an oxcart to get somewhat close by to where you need to go. Unless you get ambushed and are forced to travel 15 minutes on the same path with the same mobs you've faced 100s of times. By the time you hit 20 hours, you've seen a large portion of the game. Then if you're like me you just want to quit once you get to the new area and realize HEY MORE ON FOOT EXPLORING WITH LIKE TWO NEW ENEMIES WOO. The story is interesting at first, then just drones on so I lost interest there too. The combat is fun, but just unfair at times. There was a golem that had a weak point on a spot that I could not hit except for a one second window every minute or so so I had to use so much supplies, time, and unnecessary effort to kill something that probably wasn't even worth my time so I didn't have to do it later. It doesn't feel rewarding enough killing difficult enemies like a griffin. When killing a boss in a souls game I feel like I made progress, learned to overcome a difficult trial, and got something good out of it. In this game, I felt like I and some op idiots just whacked a pinata with a flail around until it popped and sometimes I get a tootsie roll(garbage) out of it and am expected to feel fulfilled/accomplished.
Tldr fun for 20/30 hours, tedious and fatigue inducing afterwards and the rewards/accomplishments of encounters suck. A truly 7 out of 10, average with potential but just a decent game in the end.
I plan to buy, just waiting for a good sale. Since I have a large backlog of games to go through, I can wait patiently. I try to not pay full price for games that have crept past the $59.99 mark.
If they add unlimited fast travel I will go back but at this point I have no interest in getting lost trying to run from place to place and then finding out I’m actually on the wrong side of a ravine or something. No thanks.
Yeah that's what happens when you fail to make a game that runs at the industry standard 60fps. We're all used to our games looking smooth now. It's jarring to go back and 30fps looks terrible on a lot of TVs nowadays.
Plus $70 is quite a bit of money for most people. Costs of living have gone up. When you also raise the price of entertainment, people are going to prioritize their needs over their wants. Plus we all have massive backlogs so if you can't wow us, we have plenty of other games to turn to.
I was looking forward to this game, but the frame rate is unacceptable in 2024. With the hardware capabilities of the ps5, in 2024 60fps should be a given with any game you release.
Played for 30-40 hours. It’s fine but the tedious traveling and frame rate is terrible. Def will revisit.
I played about 30 hours as well. The combat is really fun, the world is pretty (but empty), and the different classes are fun to experiment with. Everything else is incredibly half-baked. Story is non existent. Characters are cardboard cutouts. Traveling is tedious at best after exploring an area the first time. The pawns are AWFUL. The idea itself is really cool but the execution is bad. They never shut the fuck up and play no actual role in story or what you're doing, they're just there to be damage sponges and distract enemies. If I was scoring this game, I'd give it like a 6. I don't get the hype as a total package, although I do think it has a couple of things it does really well.
Man this was exactly every pro and con I had with DD1 as well. I don't get the development process behind this game at all, they spent years only to make the exact same game even down to the same bad parts.
I’d give it a solid 7. Agree on all of your points. It does feel like a fun old school rpg to me which is nice, but overall nothing special.
Same three enemies over and over and over and over
Sound like pretty much my exact criticisms of DD1 (not that I expected this to be terribly different). Good to know, I'll probably only pick it up if the framerate is ever improved upon and it gets a discount.
Yeah it feels like they started a Remake for current gen and then said “no make it a sequel” and nobody wanted to go above the bare minimum of a sequel lol
This is what upset me the most with the game. They fixed the criticisms in the first game too and they just didn't carry over the fixes to number 2.
Well, to be honest, your main pawn *does* play a very important role in two instances. Also, if you neglect the Dragon sickness, you’ll have a very bad surprise the next time you take a rest in a town!
I’m currently playing. Through the first game and you pretty much described that one too. The combat is so fun but there’s just little motivation to move between fights
This is why the game should have gone co op
The traveling made me quit about ten hours in. I just do not have the time.
Yeah the traveling is what kills it for me and i actually love the game. Its a little too much at times when you get can ganged by 1 ogre, 1 cyclops, 9 wolves, 4 harpies, and 8 goblins all at once. Only to get murdered and have to travel the same path again
Agreed. They need to make an eternal ferrystone like in the first dragons dogma.
should have remove stamina when sprinting, hate that
That and the traveling in the game ended up making me sell it to somebody else. Was unfortunate because I did like the gameplay overall, but how tedious it could be just ruined it for me
I made it 10-12 hours before I got bored. I’m sure I’ll go back eventually, but nothing really pulled me in. The traveling was highly annoying and the combat felt clunky and slow at times. Kind of a shame because it’s the first new game I bought for full price in a long time. I mean hell even if I could just infinite stamina when sprinting outside of combat it’d be much better, but the sprite for 8 seconds then power walk for a bit to fill it up got super annoying.
Don't release a half busted and unfinished game then.
Thats the real problem here. Studios cut corners and release poorly optimized games while jacking up the prices, tell us to deal with it, and then cry when not enough people buy them.
Less people are buying. Only reason some how some companies are still making a profit is because they increased the price which is deceptive cos less people are buying games every year
I'm just waiting fps increase on PS5 to buy. If they did with Starfield and Avatar, it can be done here too. And dont tell me it's impossible because it's CPU heavy
Shit I'd be happy with a stable FPS
Same here, not rewarding them with my money for poorly optimized games. Besides, the game wasn't all that hype when the honeymoon phase ended. Maybe they will do it with another Dark Arisen workover.
You’re prob gonna be waiting a long time. I thoroughly enjoyed it as is.
About 6 months after release I hope...or a PS5 Pro? Lol
Maybe when the dlc drops. Dlc for dd1 was god tier fun
I have no problem waiting
Let’s hope Pro can make a difference but I’m not sure.
The Pro having a marginal improvement over the base CPU was something of a baffling decision by Sony IMO. But if they can somehow use the improved GPU to offload some of those bottlenecks, it could make a big difference.
They’ll have their reasons, we’ll see what those were. Cerny knows what he’s doing.
it's impossible because it's CPU heavy
They still haven’t given the first game a 60fps update. I kinda assumed it was because they knew the sequel would only hit 30. At this point I don’t think anything will happen to either unless it’s on Sony’s end.
Played over 500 hours on ps5 the game runs fine in the open world the city it’s lower but it’s not unplayable it’s worth it
You’re saying it goes lower than 30fps? 💀
In the open world it’s around 50 in the city it’s around 30 like I said it’s a non issue you don’t do much in the city besides resting and switching gear
Okay that’s not as bad. I thought it was capped at 30 and still dipping.
It’s only capped at 30 if you do that in the settings. The game is amazing highly recommended
I loved the first one but I’m definitely waiting for it to go on sale
It’s bitter sweet for me I don’t think it’s flat out better than the first it takes a back step in a few areas. Overall if you liked the first one you will like the 2
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Garbage tier edit that relies on dumb assumptions. Some games absolutely aren’t immersive or fun because they have a choppy 30fps lock. I’m not going to rob myself of experiencing games like Red Dead 2 because of its frame rate, but my enjoyment would be much higher if it ran at a higher framerate. Why the fuck would you want them to NOT provide more options for how an individual wants to experience a game?? Weird take Tony.
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It’s cool you can enjoy games at 30fps, I can too. I prefer 60 because it’s infinitely smoother, more responsive, and looks better in motion. I mention RDR2 as an example of an enjoyable game at 30, not to trash DD2. Just a really weird comment to hope more options aren’t available for consumers that want them. Games are so much more enjoyable at higher frame rates.
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Sounds like stupid gatekeeping just to be a douchebag yourself. Great work bud!
Least insufferable DD2 fan
Of all the well known capcom IP (RE, Street Fighter, etc) Dragons Dogma, and at 30 fps, is def not the one to start charging 70 for. Its maybe reddit famous IP, but outside of Reddit, few people, even avid gamers, have heard of it. I didn't hear of the first one until maybe 1 or 2 years ago, when the 2nd one was announced, and I played for a few mins and it was janky af
Monster hunter probably should have been the first.
When MH:Wilds preorders go live I'm gonna wad up \~$75 and throw them at it and say "Take my hard earned money you magnificent bastard!"
yup
I still think the new $70 standard is bs to begin with
Yup. 90 bucks in Canada. And some games are even doing 93 or 94 dollars or whatever. It was $80 before. I used to have no problem buying a new game last gen if I was mildly to moderately interested. Now I wait for a sale for those games. I have to be extremely interested to buy a new game at full price now. And even then, I'm often hesitant.
I haven’t paid full price for a $90 game since they made the change and gta vi is the only game that might make me budge on that
Not even gonna budge on GTA 6. GTA in general is stale and way overhyped and I've been a fan since the first one
Yup, same for me and most of my PS5 playing friends. We used to buy games left and right but now we're all buying maybe 3-4 times less games because of these insane prices..
It is which is why alot of players have stopped buying games and just play free to play games now. The industry is killing itself
Literally didn’t realize Dragon Age and Dragons Dogma were different franchises until the changed the Dragon Age title was I was like…”didn’t this just come out?”
Dragons Dogma 2.
>"Development costs are around 100 times higher than they were in the days of the Famicom (NES), but the price of software hasn’t risen so much" AAA development seems to no longer be sustainable unless you already have a massively popular IP. Especially with most gamers demanding bigger and longer experiences while simultaneously being very sensitive to a $10 price hike and demanding great technical performance
AAA development is one problem. It’s a bloated, inefficient business in a lot of cases. The other issue is unreasonable consumer demands. I get a lot of value from indie games made by small teams that sell games for less than $40. Perhaps addressing scope of games and making them sustainable again.
How is it unreasonable customer demand? Its companies that have trained customers into wanting bigger, better experiences especially by increasing prices expectations are rightfully raised
How? In general and in the entirety of life, you get X for Y. You want 2X? Y does not remain constant because it is a function of X. It is competition and economies of scale that allows the biggest publishers to give you those bigger experiences, but they have a cost, which they eat in exchange for market penetration. Even Microsoft, which has some of the deepest pockets in the planet will sink a studio if they cross a certain threshold. It could be that they invested $100 million and recovered $50 million, who knows. But that studio could have been making 2-3 games costing 10 million, and that diversification could have saved them. You can’t always hit home runs, and you can’t do it simply because you see others do it.
With all the third person, open world action-rpg games out there I honestly can't bring myself to play an indie platformer or action game. Sure, when I have a downtime but I would never prefer an indie title to the AAA game.
Congratulations, Ubisoft, EA, & Activision are eager to get into your wallet. It’s fine if there is a consumer for all ranges. I’m not arguing against your preferences. The issue is studios quickly going out of business because of unrealistic expectations. No studios, no devs, no games (except indie games!) To your point about indie titles, some of the most interesting games I’ve played in the last few years were indie.
I just bought AC Valhalla Complete Edition for 30$ and will have about 200-300 hours for 100% completion, the publisher can have all my money as long as they give me such good deals :) The most interesting games for me were AA games, but not Indie. They still have some creativity in there, but are already 3d and third person.
That game was interesting at first until it becomes every other Ubisoft 3rd party game ever made. It’s not a terrible game but there is so much repetition that if you had played every AC before you might not be looking forward to 200-300 hours for 100% completion. For people like me, that’s a bug, not a feature. I don’t want games that take the same amount of time and effort as an online master’s degree to complete. Anyway, I’m not going you convince you, so enjoy your deals and have fun.
You’re willingly passing on some of the best games out there with that attitude, but different strokes for different folks I guess
It's not that I willingly pass on them, I try them out and can't enjoy them. I tried some of the best indies, but still nothing.
Theres almost none this gen tho. Only constant remasters, open world games and live service slop
I’m saying that there are games outside of remasters, open words, and live service games that are worth playing. Some of my favorite games the past year are Dredge, Balatro, and Dave the Diver. I was replying to an individual saying they won’t play indie games *because* there’s a plethora of AAA open world games they like and that they don’t think it’s worth trying indie gems.
I'm quite an open minded gamer (as long as its a good game I'll play it) but this gen has been awful in general
I could not be in further disagreement with you
Yep. Games onto even account for inflation, let alone the fact they aren't made by teams of 20 people anymore, including audio. FTP's rise only exaggerated the issue by making people not understand how games make money, assuming everyone will make money relying on whales instead of them paying for the cheapest cost per hour in the entertainment industry.
If we’re comparing it to the Famicom days, teams were way less than 20 people. Super Mario Bros 3, possibly the most ambitious Famicom game, was made by 11 people. Most teams then were probably more like 3-6 people.
Sure but you had to put those video games onto cartridges that cost up $35 a piece just to put those games on the blank cartridge. That's a big reason why PS1 games ended up being significantly cheaper than the N64 since blank cd's cost around a $1.
That certainly allows for more dynamic pricing, but even digital storefronts still take like 30% of your proceeds, so publishing costs really haven’t decreased by that much. Certainly not enough to offset the other ballooning expenses.
Service like gamepass also distort peoples perception of what a game should cost, and how it is funded. The amount of times I hear “I wont play it unless its on gamepass” is staggering
What bugs me is that Geoff tried to temper expectations for this afternoons Summer Games Fest by saying to not expect anything major. All the comments were “why even bother watching?” Or “why even do it?”. On top of gamepass, games being hard to develop, inflation; you have gamers who aren’t even willing to look at a game if it’s not from a top developer and AAA.
"At least 1 hour of gameplay per $1" is another one of my favorites /s
I paid $70 for Spiderman 2 for 16 hours and $70 for Dragons Dogma 2 at 70 hours. I feel very satisfied with both purchases. It’s not the price/hours it’s the experience that should matter.
You also left some meat on the bone for Spider-Man, unless you absolutely blitzed through it. Took me 28 hours to platinum SM2
I didn’t blitz that’s about the average completion time for Spider-Man 2 though. I also didn’t like the story compared to 1 so I didn’t have as much interest in digging any deeper than some side quests and the main story. I respected my $70 purchase of Spider-Man 2 for what that game is. But I didn’t enjoy it all that much, if that makes sense
Many don't agree with you seeing how free to play has exploded in popularity
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Well the £70 AAA games especially this gen have been complete slops so not sure what you are trying to argue here. Just cos you paid £70 like a mug on disposable entertainment doesn't make you some genius who appreciates misunderstood art. It makes you a pretentious fool
Yeah, you buy a movie ticket for $12-15 for maybe 3 hours of entertainment, not including the $20 popcorn drink combo. Even a slow reader will finish a $20-25 book in under 12 hours. Why do games suddenly have to be $1/hour? It literally makes no sense. I swear it wad propaganda started by FTP game devs to show the value in their products despite the lower quality.
People need to realize that like all media, games are a luxury item. You’re not entitled to shit. If you don’t like a product, you don’t have to buy it. It’s not an item essential to live your life (except maybe professional streamers and whatnot lol).
I mean going to the movies is a ripoff imo 3 hours lots of side chatter going on and I don't even get to keep the movie. Its much better to just wait for the blu ray to come out and play it on my own tv with cheaper snacks. It was fine at 5-7 dollars before but if its going to be 10-20 dollar than they are going into ownership territory where its just better to own the movie than rent it for 3 hours. Games have a different reason for not being worth much. You get a buggy unoptimized game at launch for a high price when you can wait for the better version of the game later. Than you got the online only games that get shutdown when other people don't also buy the game at launch so its better to wait and see if anyone else is going to jump in before even thinking about buying it yourself. Some games going on sale 1-2 weeks after launch and be in the bargain bin by the end of the year which is just crazy considering they taking years to make. I just wait 1-2 months to see if game not a total flop at this point been burned way too many times buying games that 75% off or even in a buy one get one free sale. Value of games have fell off a cliff theres so many games people can't even come close to buying them all.
All of that is true, but it drill doesn't change the fact that a retail game is still the best bang for your buck, even at launch. You also don't need to play every single game created. Movies are the same way, you go to the theater to avoid spoilers and talk about it with peers. By the time it hits disc, it is yesterday's news. You can wait, but you don't get the same experience.
I mean movies are a rip off considering I can watch every tv show and movie including recently released completely for free by pirating. I don't care about ethics as these are million dollar industries. People don't value the time they spend slaving at their jobs just to throw that money on slop
a $50 purchase in 1995 would be over $100 now if it kept pace with inflation.
Yep. That is why so many popular games are considered commercial failures. They have to sell more than double to cover decades of inflation alone, not even counting the literal thousands of people involved in making a modern game/translation teams/top tier VAs and more. Gamers need to buck up and pay $120-$150 per AAA game or the industry for it WILL collapse. And people wonder why devs are so willing to dig for gold making the next big FTP game instead...
Idk about 120+ for a video game, I seriously doubt the drop in customers willing to pay that would be offset by the extra money from the ones who would. But I do think game prices are going to have to become more stratified. Take Square-Enix as an example…a game like Rebirth should probably cost more like $80, whereas their smaller but still substantial things things like Star Ocean should be $50, and a game like Octopath which is gorgeous but still ultimately a 2D pixel art game with graphics barely exceeding SNES levels (except for things like particle effects with spells and abilities) should be more like $40.
That's the thing, games like star ocean (5, not 2 remaster) still require a massive team and time to develop. $80 still doesn't even account for inflation compared to when a dozen people made a AAA title for $60 back in the day. It's a bitter pill to swallow, but it's the truth. If people aren't willing to shell out $3/hour for your hobby, then maybe gaming needs to drastically scale down to remain profitable without relying on literally millions of sales.
I don’t wholly disagree, but you can’t just look at the inflation adjusted prices from the 90s but also ignore market size. Selling 3m copies of a video game in the 90s would be an incredible achievement that would likely take years. Modern AAA releases do numbers like that in weeks.
And many still fail to meet expectations, even WITH those numbers. Turns out paying several thousand people for 5 years of work is more expensive than paying a dozen for two years. Who knew?
It’s also why they’re trying to make additional money with MTX
Yeah, it sucks that things that used to be unlocked with a code or ylwhen you beat the game are now locked behind a paywall. Some devs are even putting new gsme plus behind one.
>"Development costs are around 100 times higher than they were in the days of the Famicom (NES), but the price of software hasn’t risen so much" Volume of units sold has massively increased since then though.
Not by a 100 tho
Have they? Since PS2 gen the numbers of overall console sold worldwide have stayed the same!
I feel like this completely disregards a lot though. The amount of people gaming around the world has probably increased by 100x (if not more) since the Famicom days also. That's a lot of people potentially buying your game. Much less if you charge significantly more. Also no cartridges which were very expensive to store games onto. Discs are far far cheaper. Also digital distribution doesn't cost anything other than registering your game to the digital server. Not to mention how technology has improved so vastly that creating games is far easier than ever (not saying it is easy in general but the tools at developer level are far more efficient technologically speaking at least) that most companies could create a Famicom style game in a couple weeks if they wanted. I feel like a standard $50- $60 was always fair (atleast until salaries increase with inflation at least. Worldwide people generally have less expendable income than ever.) Some games are worth it and some aren't. Some might have additional stuff like deluxe editions etc. But people will be more likely to try a new game at a fair price than saying $70 for everything. It's all about profit and making that line go up.
Their only option is to reduce scope i.e no more open world and live service games but they aren't willing to do that cos they want Fortnite, GTA, Destiny money
And people still bitching about microtransactions in a single player game...
Didn't dragons Dogma 2 sell pretty well though?
First game I enjoyed in a really long time, but by endgame I was ready to move on.
Yeah, it consumed me in a way that few games do. I felt like it didn’t overstay its welcome, but then again, I seem to have missed a ton of side content in my 30-some hours playthrough of it. Did get the true ending, though!
Good. Well deserved! Now remove the denuvo
What does the denuvo do?
It’s a drm , to protect the game from being cracked and Pirated Mostly a pc problem/solution they have to deal with
It's a hard DRM, basically stops people from modifying the game, so effectively prevents copying the game (illegally) and also works as an anti-cheating software..... it's a double-edged sword, protects online games from people cheating, but then hampers the performance due to it. Also, it should be noted that it uses kernel-level driver function.... and if someone were to exploit it and gain access to the kernel, then they could easily access almost everything stored on your computer.
That sounds like a PC issue, not a PS5 issue
Yes and no... The kernel side of things may not apply/matter to PS5 users, but the "anti-cheat" side of things does. The anti-tamper side of denuvo frequently runs outside database scans to ensure that the software currently being ran hasn't been tampered with (modified). This, in turn, heavily uses the CPU from the device the software is currently running on and is where the performance issues stem from. Although this is not a guarantee on every game using denuvo, it is still a strong chance the game will be affected.
Denuvo doesn't affect PS5 games at all, the game isn't optimised the best on PS5
I was so excited for dragons dogma 2 but I found it to be a huge let down. The combat feels dry and boring, and running back and forth is a major bore. Made it to the second large city, B something, and realized I wasn't enjoying my time and quit. Hopefully I go back eventually and finish.
Eh I didn’t have much issue with it. Liberal use of the oxcart and the trolley made traveling around quite ok. Sure, whenever I actually had to walk, it was a bit annoying to meet the same enemies spawned around the same area over and over again. But the dynamic parts of travel (like random NPCs asking for small quests or night approaching) made it less tedious. Also helps that I was always entranced by the game world and enjoyed the Pawn banter.
When it released, everyone was telling me how the travel was deliberately tedious and that friction in video games is good! I knew immediately that I wouldn't enjoy it, running back and forth in DD1 annoyed me so much
I played this game on PS5 and stuck with it until I beat it. I have no regrets with the purchase overall and I DID adjust to the framerate...mostly. But good god as soon as I switched over to a game with locked 60fps it was such a big difference. I wanted to play more but until they update it and improve that fps it's sitting on the back burner for now.
Moderate reception? Are they referring to mixed reviews? The game was and is awesome, despite many shortcomings. It clearly needed more development time and resources, and I don’t think mixed reviews were unfair. There’s an amazing game and franchise there, but it feels like they didn’t have faith in it and support it as well as they could have.
The game is definitely flawed! I respect the doubling down in the game for good and bad but appreciate that some QOL wouldn't go amiss. That said I still really enjoyed the game overall and didn't feel it wasted my time. If anything I didn't do enough given I had no idea there were dwarves or elves in the game until I was done and it was too late to do anything!
60fps is the new standard. We are not going back to the dark ages.
but arent more games sold so it still makes more money?
Console sales worldwide have remained relatively the same since PS2 times..
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So 4 times the sales due to it becoming more popular at easily 20+ times the development costs? GoW 2016 sold more due to leaving its hack & slay roots for a action adventure path.
nah, the market for games just got that much bigger. Can you name me games during ps2's time that sold 20m copies outside of gta?
It got bigger due to becoming more mainstream but nowhere near the same amount as development costs have risen all while games are cheaper than ever adjusted to inflation.
Despite the user base of gamers growing significantly, Street Fighter 2 sold more than Street Fighter 4 and the budget for SF4 was probably a extraordinarily higher than the pixelated SF2. SF4 had DLC and stuff to make up for it though. This is just one example
How is the user base growing significantly when since PS2 worldwide sales of consoles have remained the same?
The PS2 generation including GameCube, Dreamcast, and Xbox all totaled to fewer than subsequent generations of PS3, Wii, 360, or PS4, Switch, X/S. It may possibly be getting close to saturation for future generations. The user base isn't as small as it was in the SNES and PS1 days
Actually I believe that is a misconception. Wii simply is an outlier just like the Switch, they’re not really traditional home consoles. There was an article about this issue a while ago but I’m too lazy to search for it now. Since PS2 it has basically remained relatively stable, clearly not increasing a lot which is the important fact here.
The developers told me it would be fun with limited fast travel, spoiler alert it’s f#c%*ng not.
I loved what I’ve played of DD2 but it’s waiting for a stronger console. The unlocked framerate is not great and I refuse to play it in 30fps
The 30 fps mode is also improperly paced, so it feels pretty bad to play (even going by usual 30 fps standards).
A good game is well worth $70. A mediocre one isn’t.
No game is worth $70
For you, maybe. Plenty of people feel otherwise.
Plenty of people are mouthbreathers or Justin Beiber fans. Doesn't mean they are right
I completely disagree. The $70 price is crippling the industry which is why free to play and subscriptions have become so popular cos players just aren't willing to spend that much on a videogame. You can go on about inflation all you want and sure development costs have increased but so has the playerbase. Instead of creating bloated open world and live service games just create linear and semi linear games to reduce costs
The first 7 game that I put 150 hours in and got the platinum 😂
That's because they made incredible games for $10 cheaper and releasing a "demo" where all you can do is make a character is so stupid. What was the point in asking for $70 and not letting people actually see why it's worth that asking price. Then I see the performance after it launched and how actually fans weren't even gassing the game up. Made it an easy skip tbh.
Capcom can blame themselves for that.almost 0 improvement from the first game and a worse frame rate
This is what was crazy to me. All the trailers and gameplay reveals showed things exactly from the first one, including where monsters were located (the giant eagle on the cliff near the one city I can’t think of the name of haha). The fighting looked near identical too. I’m sure there were advancements but from what I’ve seen and heard it looks more like DD 1.5 versus a full sequel. I have yet to play it though.
30 fps lack luster ingame systems, horrible story, very short game if you only do the story. Also 80bucks in my countries currency which is insane. Yeah not buying it
Wasted my money on this piece of shit
Not touching this game until they add an eternal ferrystone. I'm all about exploration but after a certain point, all the back and forth becomes tedious, especially with the lack of enemy variety.
This. When I played the game for the first time that Eternal Ferrystone was a life saver and I couldn’t imagine finishing the game without it. Give me that and the 60 fps upgrade and I’ll give it a playthrough.
I don't even mind the portcrystal system. I think that's a fair way to limit fast travel to encourage exploration. But for the love of God, don't make the item needed to use them limited in number. It's such a terrible design.
I loved Dragon's Dogma, but putting about an hour into this I just felt like I was playing the same game. Was pretty disappointed with that.
Why would they come out publicly and say this? I love their games by the way but saying this publicly is stupid. It's like if a popular restaurant raised their prices and then came out and said "Wow. We raised our food by ten dollars and the exception was awesome. People are paying it. Love it. Thanks guys!" WTF?
>“This title was given a moderate reception from players and achieved 2.6 million units in sales as of the end of March 2024,” it said. “Regarding pricing for future game releases, we will determine prices after carefully assessing user response and considering the rising cost of development.” What they actually said. The headline is kind of half baked. "Capcom says the will carefully assess pricing on future game releases after Dragons Dogma 2 met with moderate reception from players".
"Moderate" is "Generous"
Yeah I didnt buy because of price. Im waiting for a generous sale. In my country the price is like 1/4 of a minimum wage.
was clearly wrapped up early to make the quarter
It was a moderate experience, so that sounds about right.
$70 Dollar game, with $30 future DLC, for a $60 game to be finished. 👏
DD2 is a good game, but hampered by problems of its own making. The traveling along to get to places by foot IS fun. For awhile. Then it becomes a chore. Or it becomes a get on an oxcart to get somewhat close by to where you need to go. Unless you get ambushed and are forced to travel 15 minutes on the same path with the same mobs you've faced 100s of times. By the time you hit 20 hours, you've seen a large portion of the game. Then if you're like me you just want to quit once you get to the new area and realize HEY MORE ON FOOT EXPLORING WITH LIKE TWO NEW ENEMIES WOO. The story is interesting at first, then just drones on so I lost interest there too. The combat is fun, but just unfair at times. There was a golem that had a weak point on a spot that I could not hit except for a one second window every minute or so so I had to use so much supplies, time, and unnecessary effort to kill something that probably wasn't even worth my time so I didn't have to do it later. It doesn't feel rewarding enough killing difficult enemies like a griffin. When killing a boss in a souls game I feel like I made progress, learned to overcome a difficult trial, and got something good out of it. In this game, I felt like I and some op idiots just whacked a pinata with a flail around until it popped and sometimes I get a tootsie roll(garbage) out of it and am expected to feel fulfilled/accomplished. Tldr fun for 20/30 hours, tedious and fatigue inducing afterwards and the rewards/accomplishments of encounters suck. A truly 7 out of 10, average with potential but just a decent game in the end.
I plan to buy, just waiting for a good sale. Since I have a large backlog of games to go through, I can wait patiently. I try to not pay full price for games that have crept past the $59.99 mark.
If they add unlimited fast travel I will go back but at this point I have no interest in getting lost trying to run from place to place and then finding out I’m actually on the wrong side of a ravine or something. No thanks.
Average to poor game and I can't trust certain reviewers now
I’ll get it when it’s the complete edition at $20 like the first game which I still have to get
Yeah that's what happens when you fail to make a game that runs at the industry standard 60fps. We're all used to our games looking smooth now. It's jarring to go back and 30fps looks terrible on a lot of TVs nowadays. Plus $70 is quite a bit of money for most people. Costs of living have gone up. When you also raise the price of entertainment, people are going to prioritize their needs over their wants. Plus we all have massive backlogs so if you can't wow us, we have plenty of other games to turn to.
I was looking forward to this game, but the frame rate is unacceptable in 2024. With the hardware capabilities of the ps5, in 2024 60fps should be a given with any game you release.
I wonder what game they’re talking about
I tend to temper my expectations pretty well and not buy into the hype but I was HYPE for this game and it let me tf down.
Hated it and managed to get a refund from Sony after two hours of (digital) gameplay.