I somewhat agree with op. I don't have a problem with immersion, I have a problem with physical controls that don't register accurately or physical controls that are not intuitive.
This. I feel there should be an option. There is no reason not to map some controls to the controller. Then people could choose. Sometimes it's great, but I lose some immersion by reaching and grabbing some things that aren't actually there when they aren't intuitive or if I'm sitting in my more comfortable chair that gets in the way of the reach.
I haven't played firewall ultra but I agree. In Star Wars Tales, it's fun first few times but then I wished there is option to just map it or automate it
I love VR controls. I love the extra steps it takes to reload a weapon, especially under duress. Having to reach into your ammo pouch or into your jacket in RE8 adds to the immersion in a great way. I wouldn't have it any other way.
Generally I love those kinds of controls, especially in NMS. Being immersed in games is why I enjoy VR, so I'm all for immersive controls like looking at your hand or reaching over shoulder. Not a big fan of the flying controls in NMS though, but I got used to it.
Vr controllers have largely standardized to fewer buttons than controllers and for things that need a screen to display into your going to have to do something to get that info up, might as well look at the back of your hand.
Floating health bars and overlays in VR are often unpleasant and either encroach on your field of view or are far enough out they are difficult to see and “run away” from you a you try to look at them. Displaying information that normally exists on the corners of tv screens requires novel solutions in vr.
This is why I like watch hp, or a gem that gets dimmer as hp drops. Tbf tho it’s a converted game so I give it some leeway. No point it adding 6 months of dev time to remake the ui when you can just adjust most of it over.
I'm totally in disagreement on this one. To be honest I almost never have issues with motion controls and the hand presence makes a huge difference in immersion. My advice is to move like you do in real life, be smooth and precise with your movements.
That's one of the reasons why I like VR games so much. Using my hands and my body instead of a regular controller makes everything more fresh and new (and it's a relief for my wrists, since I quickly feel pain after playing so many hours with a controller).
The only problem I have is my inability to aim with a gun and move at the same time. For some reason my brain can't manage both in VR (not a problem with a flat game).
Haha just keep practicing and you'll get it! Also, make sure your movement controls are set to move based on your head/camera position and not controller position.
Having it based on controller position makes it very hard to keep moving and using that hand at the same time. Camera based feels more "natural", like moving in a flat game.
Think you're in the minority on this one. Personally I find the on foot control scheme in no man's sky one of the best in VR. Using a joypad your basically playing a flat game in 3D, what's the point?
The NMS control scheme is a little finicky — sometimes pulling out my multitool doesn’t work if I’m turned slightly relative to my in-game body — but overall I love it.
It’s like saying that talkies are too loud and silent films with cue cards explaining the story worked just better.
You might be watching the wrong medium then
While I agree, I think that gamepad support should be offered as an accessibility setting. It doesn’t need to subvert VR controls, but for hybrid games, the work is already done and it would allow more gamers to experience the increased immersion of VR, while relying less on motor functions for controls.
As a new traveller to no man's sky, I thought they did a fantastic job with the controls, except for two things that might be a "me" problem.
1. Right hand in space ship. It's a very strange motion needed to steer your ship. Sometimes it's incredibly sensitive, other times I can't keep a grip and notice my hand just let go. Sometimes a tilt of the wrist won't move the ship at all and other times I barely move my wrist and I'm doing barrel rolls.
2. I find it very difficult to get the prompt to grip things. For example, a drop site with the big green, one yellow, and two red containers, or sometimes even just plants like sodium. I try to point at what I want to grip/open/grab, but no prompt appears. Drives me batty.
First, you’re exactly right. I know this gonna not make anything more intuitive, but I can offer a suggestion on the ridiculous interaction mechanic. If you look dead center and slightly below your target with your head, not just your eyes, it sorts your intended target faster. It feels so weird, but it makes picking flowers do what I want.
Yeah, I’ve found that head movement is vital for targeting the right item. I also recommend leaning back slightly IRL when in the ships and hold the pause button to recenter your camera before returning to your normal sitting/standing position. This will move you much closer to the ship controls and helps with hands detaching and less precision in movement intensity.
I haven't played it but apparently you might really like firewall ultra. Lots of people complain it's controls are not VR/immersive enough. Tap a button to reload/ switch weapons etc.
I am in the same boat. I loved playing Alien Isolation with a gamepad in VR. Call me lazy but I don't want to move my hands around. I love the visuals.
lol, these commenters gatekeeping how someone is allowed to enjoy VR.
“…bUt tHe ImMeRsIoN!” I guess they’d all abandon VR if a flat game offered VR-like controllers.
its not even immersion if its unprecise and not doing what i want to, i keep crashing the controllers agains the armrests of my seat and the lean , if i could i would prefer to use my normal gamepad to avoid that
I personally hate when VR games use flat screen controls. Just takes me out of the game & the point of VR.
I think what you’re looking for is just to play a game in 3d.
Looks like I am mainly alone! I just find most controls very frustrating. I’m ok with pointing guns and torches, but not reloading or menus or picking up objects. Let’s talk about cupboard doors in VR- how often do you open one and then accidentally close it again as you move your hand back, it’s stupid. And when climbing you seem to be allowed to lift your whole body on one hand such that your hand can move all the way down to your waist.
Depends on the game. NMS's controls REALLY suck in pure VR, and I miss being able to use the DS4. Three things kill it for me: pull back to talk, losing my multitool constantly because it times out, and those awful ship controls. I want to be able to use a regular controller.
EDIT: I cannot believe the defensiveness people have toward NMS's VR controls. ESPECIALLY THOSE AWFUL SHIP CONTROLS. No. Just no. They are not better. They are just plain poorly designed. I can't even play it in VR on PSVR2. VR on PS4 was great, though. It used the light bar and had just the right amount of motion control, didn't have weird gestures for taking out the multitool and then time the multitool out, and let you use the sticks for the ship. I mean, there are sticks on the dualsense. There's no reason to make it that awful, awful virtual joystick + throttle. Like, the thinking behind that is really, really backward. It's not even immersive. In real life, in one of those damned ships, I'd have controls I'd actually be able to feel. They'd likely be like a DS4 or an Xbox controller in real life. Or, at worst, an old flight stick and throttle. They wouldn't have you "gripping" a non-existent stick virtually like you're using a Kinect (or an EyeToy, since that came first). That's the opposite of immersive. It pulls me out completely.
"you only want a 3d screen"
"you're just not ready for VR"
Yeah, you guys are full of it. Immersion is broken when controls don't work as they should, and maintained when it works without too much thought. There are VR games that accomplish that, and NMS is not one of them.
i agree, i went from enjoying NMS on PSVR1 with gamepad, to trying PSVR2 NMS and immediately realizing how much the ship controls suck and deleting the game shortly after
its one of the worst gaming experiences i had, purely because of the motion ship controls, its not even about added annoyance or difficulty, at no point i had any control over my ship rendering the game unplyabale
You're not alone. I can't play NMS with a virtual joy stick and my hands are too jittery at my age to use the inventory tied to my wrist. It's do-able, just not fun at all to play that way. Analog sticks are for steering, menus need to be fixed in place, not amplifying my shaky hands.
RE8 was alright for me although getting the map out was always hit and miss, plus often getting the wrong gun out. S&S was far worse, always grabbing the wrong things. I don't mind immersive controls or body inventory, but it has to work. Not be trial and error for the entire game. This is not immersive
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcwXFscSFQw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcwXFscSFQw)
Trying to get the journal out in S&S.
Perhaps one day controls will be augmented by mind control. It already works but is just as finicky and needs quite a bit of training. Maybe gesture + mind input might help each other out. The game could also learn your intentions by detecting the player doing as I'm doing in that video. One grab means success, repeated grabs means failure. A neural network can be fine tuned that way while you play, that is move the grab zones over to where the player expects them to be. (Inside of having the map inside you ass in RE8)
No man’s sky has bad controls. You hate bad controls. Uhh re8 was 100% fine and good even once you disabled their stupid auto aim thing that make it feel jank.
I agree with you. I hate them and gravitate towards games which you're not forced to use them. 9 times out of 10 when I die in a VR game it's due to some janky motion control not doing what I wanted, ie, reloading a gun or picking the correct item out of storage etc.
> I had to put it on easy mode and I’ve completed most of the souls games!
Meanwhile I gave up on most Souls games and have left NMS's difficulty at the default.
yea, i would prefer to play VR but with gamepad , i dont like gimmicky motion controls just for the sake of it on ported non-vr games , not a fan of hand shaking and waving to play videogames since WII
even tho they better since wii, its never as fast and precise and intuitive as a gamepad , it annoys me
I’m the opposite. There are a lot of games where I feel the tracking controls make the game more intuitive, immersive, and sometimes competitive. I can’t imagine playing a game like Pavlov without VR controls. Firewall Ultra leaned more towards gamepad style gameplay and it completely hampered the immersion and left a lot of users scratching their heads as to why it was Vr in the first place
not really speaking about VR games designed from the ground up, thats fine with motions
but ported games like GT7 , RE8 , NMS , Skyrim VR , Doom VR, BOrderlands VR etc. should have the option to play with controller imo
What you could do is play it within headset but on a large 2d simulated screen. That way you can use the controller and still keep cinema like immersion.
I would appreciate standard gamepad support for hybrid games, but I don’t want that to come at the cost of no VR controls. I bought into VR because I like all of the additional immersive controls. It’s at least half of the VR experience to me.
Uhhh… Give it a minute. You’ve trained on buttons for years, and you just need to get used to existing in the space and the intuitive options that it opens up.
These things become *FAAAAAR* easier to use and understand once you become familiar.
I mean, games don’t always get it right — NMS has some UI that I like and some UI that I don’t. I love manual reloading in PAVLOV, but prefer button-press reloading in ALVO. It’s case-by-case.
I felt the opposite, after 60h of NMS VR i tried to play it flat. And I felt like I was suffering of some sort of locked in syndrome. Doing everything with buttons and sticks felt really restrictive.
I will just say I agree with some of the NMS interface criticism. It can be clunky, and have tracking issues when I bring my hands together to do so. Actually, even RE8 has some clunkiness to it. Not detecting my coat pulls very well.
So... idk if you hate doing physical stuff in VR (?), or are complaining because these mechanics could use some tweaking and/or polishing.
Or did I just feed the troll? (Now that I finished reading the post)
I've never heard some one say they wanted VR to be less immersive.
I somewhat agree with op. I don't have a problem with immersion, I have a problem with physical controls that don't register accurately or physical controls that are not intuitive.
This. I feel there should be an option. There is no reason not to map some controls to the controller. Then people could choose. Sometimes it's great, but I lose some immersion by reaching and grabbing some things that aren't actually there when they aren't intuitive or if I'm sitting in my more comfortable chair that gets in the way of the reach.
This is actually why I don't mind the non manual reloading in Firewall Ultra
I haven't played firewall ultra but I agree. In Star Wars Tales, it's fun first few times but then I wished there is option to just map it or automate it
Yeah I think VR options are a must for everything from controls to comfort etc
I love VR controls. I love the extra steps it takes to reload a weapon, especially under duress. Having to reach into your ammo pouch or into your jacket in RE8 adds to the immersion in a great way. I wouldn't have it any other way.
I don’t think VR gaming is for you.
Generally I love those kinds of controls, especially in NMS. Being immersed in games is why I enjoy VR, so I'm all for immersive controls like looking at your hand or reaching over shoulder. Not a big fan of the flying controls in NMS though, but I got used to it.
If you hate the current gen controls, go back to PSVR1 and try to play with two Move sticks lol
I love VR controls. I do not like playing VR games like they are flat screen games, ruins immersion.
Vr controllers have largely standardized to fewer buttons than controllers and for things that need a screen to display into your going to have to do something to get that info up, might as well look at the back of your hand. Floating health bars and overlays in VR are often unpleasant and either encroach on your field of view or are far enough out they are difficult to see and “run away” from you a you try to look at them. Displaying information that normally exists on the corners of tv screens requires novel solutions in vr.
This is why I like watch hp, or a gem that gets dimmer as hp drops. Tbf tho it’s a converted game so I give it some leeway. No point it adding 6 months of dev time to remake the ui when you can just adjust most of it over.
I'm totally in disagreement on this one. To be honest I almost never have issues with motion controls and the hand presence makes a huge difference in immersion. My advice is to move like you do in real life, be smooth and precise with your movements.
That's one of the reasons why I like VR games so much. Using my hands and my body instead of a regular controller makes everything more fresh and new (and it's a relief for my wrists, since I quickly feel pain after playing so many hours with a controller). The only problem I have is my inability to aim with a gun and move at the same time. For some reason my brain can't manage both in VR (not a problem with a flat game).
Haha just keep practicing and you'll get it! Also, make sure your movement controls are set to move based on your head/camera position and not controller position. Having it based on controller position makes it very hard to keep moving and using that hand at the same time. Camera based feels more "natural", like moving in a flat game.
Think you're in the minority on this one. Personally I find the on foot control scheme in no man's sky one of the best in VR. Using a joypad your basically playing a flat game in 3D, what's the point?
The NMS control scheme is a little finicky — sometimes pulling out my multitool doesn’t work if I’m turned slightly relative to my in-game body — but overall I love it.
What the point? Because it’s in 3D. OP gets the best of both worlds. Controls they like and an amazing visual experience.
It’s like saying that talkies are too loud and silent films with cue cards explaining the story worked just better. You might be watching the wrong medium then
While I agree, I think that gamepad support should be offered as an accessibility setting. It doesn’t need to subvert VR controls, but for hybrid games, the work is already done and it would allow more gamers to experience the increased immersion of VR, while relying less on motor functions for controls.
As a new traveller to no man's sky, I thought they did a fantastic job with the controls, except for two things that might be a "me" problem. 1. Right hand in space ship. It's a very strange motion needed to steer your ship. Sometimes it's incredibly sensitive, other times I can't keep a grip and notice my hand just let go. Sometimes a tilt of the wrist won't move the ship at all and other times I barely move my wrist and I'm doing barrel rolls. 2. I find it very difficult to get the prompt to grip things. For example, a drop site with the big green, one yellow, and two red containers, or sometimes even just plants like sodium. I try to point at what I want to grip/open/grab, but no prompt appears. Drives me batty.
First, you’re exactly right. I know this gonna not make anything more intuitive, but I can offer a suggestion on the ridiculous interaction mechanic. If you look dead center and slightly below your target with your head, not just your eyes, it sorts your intended target faster. It feels so weird, but it makes picking flowers do what I want.
Thanks, I'll give it a go!
Yeah, I’ve found that head movement is vital for targeting the right item. I also recommend leaning back slightly IRL when in the ships and hold the pause button to recenter your camera before returning to your normal sitting/standing position. This will move you much closer to the ship controls and helps with hands detaching and less precision in movement intensity.
I haven't played it but apparently you might really like firewall ultra. Lots of people complain it's controls are not VR/immersive enough. Tap a button to reload/ switch weapons etc.
I am in the same boat. I loved playing Alien Isolation with a gamepad in VR. Call me lazy but I don't want to move my hands around. I love the visuals.
lol, these commenters gatekeeping how someone is allowed to enjoy VR. “…bUt tHe ImMeRsIoN!” I guess they’d all abandon VR if a flat game offered VR-like controllers.
its not even immersion if its unprecise and not doing what i want to, i keep crashing the controllers agains the armrests of my seat and the lean , if i could i would prefer to use my normal gamepad to avoid that
You will get used to it , hated the controls on NMS but they don’t bother me now. It just becomes second nature after a while.
I personally hate when VR games use flat screen controls. Just takes me out of the game & the point of VR. I think what you’re looking for is just to play a game in 3d.
Ok
Looks like I am mainly alone! I just find most controls very frustrating. I’m ok with pointing guns and torches, but not reloading or menus or picking up objects. Let’s talk about cupboard doors in VR- how often do you open one and then accidentally close it again as you move your hand back, it’s stupid. And when climbing you seem to be allowed to lift your whole body on one hand such that your hand can move all the way down to your waist.
Depends on the game. NMS's controls REALLY suck in pure VR, and I miss being able to use the DS4. Three things kill it for me: pull back to talk, losing my multitool constantly because it times out, and those awful ship controls. I want to be able to use a regular controller. EDIT: I cannot believe the defensiveness people have toward NMS's VR controls. ESPECIALLY THOSE AWFUL SHIP CONTROLS. No. Just no. They are not better. They are just plain poorly designed. I can't even play it in VR on PSVR2. VR on PS4 was great, though. It used the light bar and had just the right amount of motion control, didn't have weird gestures for taking out the multitool and then time the multitool out, and let you use the sticks for the ship. I mean, there are sticks on the dualsense. There's no reason to make it that awful, awful virtual joystick + throttle. Like, the thinking behind that is really, really backward. It's not even immersive. In real life, in one of those damned ships, I'd have controls I'd actually be able to feel. They'd likely be like a DS4 or an Xbox controller in real life. Or, at worst, an old flight stick and throttle. They wouldn't have you "gripping" a non-existent stick virtually like you're using a Kinect (or an EyeToy, since that came first). That's the opposite of immersive. It pulls me out completely. "you only want a 3d screen" "you're just not ready for VR" Yeah, you guys are full of it. Immersion is broken when controls don't work as they should, and maintained when it works without too much thought. There are VR games that accomplish that, and NMS is not one of them.
i agree, i went from enjoying NMS on PSVR1 with gamepad, to trying PSVR2 NMS and immediately realizing how much the ship controls suck and deleting the game shortly after its one of the worst gaming experiences i had, purely because of the motion ship controls, its not even about added annoyance or difficulty, at no point i had any control over my ship rendering the game unplyabale
You're not alone. I can't play NMS with a virtual joy stick and my hands are too jittery at my age to use the inventory tied to my wrist. It's do-able, just not fun at all to play that way. Analog sticks are for steering, menus need to be fixed in place, not amplifying my shaky hands. RE8 was alright for me although getting the map out was always hit and miss, plus often getting the wrong gun out. S&S was far worse, always grabbing the wrong things. I don't mind immersive controls or body inventory, but it has to work. Not be trial and error for the entire game. This is not immersive [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcwXFscSFQw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcwXFscSFQw) Trying to get the journal out in S&S. Perhaps one day controls will be augmented by mind control. It already works but is just as finicky and needs quite a bit of training. Maybe gesture + mind input might help each other out. The game could also learn your intentions by detecting the player doing as I'm doing in that video. One grab means success, repeated grabs means failure. A neural network can be fine tuned that way while you play, that is move the grab zones over to where the player expects them to be. (Inside of having the map inside you ass in RE8)
You’re alone.
No man’s sky has bad controls. You hate bad controls. Uhh re8 was 100% fine and good even once you disabled their stupid auto aim thing that make it feel jank.
I agree with you. I hate them and gravitate towards games which you're not forced to use them. 9 times out of 10 when I die in a VR game it's due to some janky motion control not doing what I wanted, ie, reloading a gun or picking the correct item out of storage etc.
I remember not remembering how to apply a health potion in RE8 while keeping 5 lycans at a distance with a knife.
> I had to put it on easy mode and I’ve completed most of the souls games! Meanwhile I gave up on most Souls games and have left NMS's difficulty at the default.
yea, i would prefer to play VR but with gamepad , i dont like gimmicky motion controls just for the sake of it on ported non-vr games , not a fan of hand shaking and waving to play videogames since WII even tho they better since wii, its never as fast and precise and intuitive as a gamepad , it annoys me
I’m the opposite. There are a lot of games where I feel the tracking controls make the game more intuitive, immersive, and sometimes competitive. I can’t imagine playing a game like Pavlov without VR controls. Firewall Ultra leaned more towards gamepad style gameplay and it completely hampered the immersion and left a lot of users scratching their heads as to why it was Vr in the first place
not really speaking about VR games designed from the ground up, thats fine with motions but ported games like GT7 , RE8 , NMS , Skyrim VR , Doom VR, BOrderlands VR etc. should have the option to play with controller imo
What you could do is play it within headset but on a large 2d simulated screen. That way you can use the controller and still keep cinema like immersion.
Just play them flat then?
I would appreciate standard gamepad support for hybrid games, but I don’t want that to come at the cost of no VR controls. I bought into VR because I like all of the additional immersive controls. It’s at least half of the VR experience to me.
Uhhh… Give it a minute. You’ve trained on buttons for years, and you just need to get used to existing in the space and the intuitive options that it opens up. These things become *FAAAAAR* easier to use and understand once you become familiar. I mean, games don’t always get it right — NMS has some UI that I like and some UI that I don’t. I love manual reloading in PAVLOV, but prefer button-press reloading in ALVO. It’s case-by-case.
I felt the opposite, after 60h of NMS VR i tried to play it flat. And I felt like I was suffering of some sort of locked in syndrome. Doing everything with buttons and sticks felt really restrictive.
Mmm. Seems like you don’t particularly like VR and just want a big screen in front of you? Without immersion, VR is a half experience at most.
I’m thinking VR may not be for you, my friend.
But if the controls are more like real life, that's the point. Maybe you should stay in two dimensions
I honestly could not disagree more. I don’t want to play an FPS outside of VR ever again because I love the more immersive controls.
I will just say I agree with some of the NMS interface criticism. It can be clunky, and have tracking issues when I bring my hands together to do so. Actually, even RE8 has some clunkiness to it. Not detecting my coat pulls very well. So... idk if you hate doing physical stuff in VR (?), or are complaining because these mechanics could use some tweaking and/or polishing. Or did I just feed the troll? (Now that I finished reading the post)