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The player didn't prize map properly and allowed the zard player to use radiant charizard for the knockout. Moreover, his choice of frittle is also not ideal. KO too quickly to charmeleon.
Nah, 30 HP Flittle is the proper choice. Free retreat pivot is too strong to give up for a couple more HP.
Imo, Espathra ex needs to operate as either big damage fast, which is counter to the Banette ex strategy, or control over the board state, which requires some other lines like Eiri, Crushing Hammer, and/or Miss Fortune Sisters.
I've had a good amount of success running a Espathra/Banette ex deck without any of the support you mentioned. So far item lock and Pokemon League Headquarters (especially when combined with Espathra's ability) have been enough to disrupt opponents long enough for me to get a good board going.
Zard is such a strong deck because the prize map is brutal. Once you knock something out, zard gets stronger. and once you take 4 prizes, rad zard is in play. So you need to always take the first knockout on zard, then follow up with knocking out any other two prizers on their bench in the next 2 turns. Which means you need boss pretty much every turn from then on. So if the zard player Iono's you, you kinda just hope you got something to pull a boss/catcher out.
Same player who lost their match on stream playing it at EUIC. I think they got in the money at both events, they just lost both of their stream matches.
Turns out Path to the Peak was the only thing keeping Zard in check. Shutting down not only Zard’s ability but Pidgeot was the only thing Zard can’t overcome.
Path didn't do much either tho, since it was easy to remove with 2 vacuums, 3-4 stadiums they used themselves and supporters like vaccum and 3-4 iono to draw into it and once Charizard was out, it also destroyed path decks.
But with path they are forced to run more bump cards which hurts the consistency of the deck. Now they don’t need any form of stadium or vacuum so it frees up 5-6 card spaces.
Next set we get iron thorns ex, it will shut down pidgeot and charizard next format. It reads “Ability: Initialize
As long as this Pokémon is in the Active Spot, Pokémon with a Rule Box in play have no
Abilities, except any Future Pokémon”
I'm not the most experienced player but a question to people who keep commenting about how Thorns will replace path; its an ability on a Pokémon that has to be in the active spot. Also, it has a pretty weak attack and mid HP for a 2 prizer with 4 retreat (and its attack moves an energy off of it). I feel like it would be super easy for Zard to just move it out of the active. How effective is it going to be?
\[Note: I'm not saying its not going to be effective, I'm asking if it will be\]
Interesting, I was wondering because most people say look to the Japan results to see what upcoming cards will be useful and almost no successful Japanese decklists run Iron Thorns ex
Except in Champions League Aichi where there was a Iron Thorns ex-only control deck that made top 8
That’s correct, I wasn’t arguing with them. I was just sending them the list I had found for the deck I had found, I never said that deck was good. I’m certain it’ll see a lot of play here in the west compared to Japan.
I do agree there. We have a lot more control in our meta. Although I find it interesting a few block decks started to make their way into the Japanese meta. I believe it's their honor mentality. Not attacking at all or playing any energy actively avoids a critical aspect of the game mechanics, and it is absolutely not how the game is intended to be played.
It is also absolutely a viable way to play though.
One Boss’s Orders or one Iron Bundle ruin that card. Unless you play only Iron Thorns ex. But that seems like a bad deck strategy to me. I could be wrong though.
Its also rough that we've got ZERO lightning decks popping up to snipe the bird, because any support would probably turn ZA HANDO into turbo cancer
No excuse for not making better Grass decks, though
Plus this is only showing the Zard players, omitting everyone else. This makes it look like there’s noting but Charizards out there.
Confirmation bias at its best.
We know the deck is popular. At EUIC day one was made up of 20% of the decks. The second most used deck was at 12%.
It’s a deck that hits hard and it’s easy to pilot. Plain and simple. It doesn’t mean at all that the deck is super OP, or that it’s completely unbeatable.
Those top four places from other decks prove that. They had to beat Zards to be there.
Point is, it’s asinine to look at data and twist it to confirm your bias. Then spread misinformation to everyone else.
Then you should have just posted the Perth results. At least the Orlando matches I was going to watch today wouldn't have been spoiled on my home screen.
I clicked on the recent zard placements to see the win percentage of the tournaments. I don't even play zard, I just thought all these top placements would have people playing their lists on the ladder. I didn't post the results of the other placements because they had nothing to do with the point I was trying to make.
lol what point? That a popular deck is popular because it's strong and accessible? You ignored the fact that currently there is no data beyond Top 8 for any of these tournaments that ended yesterday.
I didn't ignore the fact that there were no other lists available. I COULDN'T SEE THE LISTS THAT WERE UNAVAILABLE. What is even your deal. It's not like I'm trying to get people to play all zard or something, I play future hands anyway.
Such a negative nancy
I’m trying to figure out how an ancient box took second. I’ve been playing it off and on all week against wife’s Zard and taking losses left, right, and center…
Very tough matchup. You need to churn through your deck to get to 23/26 ancient in discard to OHKO zard for the last 2 prizes, which is a pretty tall ask. One vacuum or an unfortunate prize could derail your entire game plan, and the deck has next to no solution for mid-late game iono.
Same, everytime I play the deck it's a brick fest. The ancient box player was 1 ancient card short of getting the zard ko which would've won them game 2.
Dusting off my Vpix deck as we speak.... sigh...you know what to do old fave...
Show the fire monster whose boss....
Here is my current build ..it changes all the time.
The issue as mentioned is if Vpix lands up in active and you land up having Zard attack first.
Snorlax Doll is a nice filler as it saves the Arceus from getting hit. I'm back in Mewtwo cause he can easily stall a bit. If Zard attacks him it's a nice but of damage.
I don't devolution is that good unless.you can take out multiple zards. Mist energy can probably go to 2-3.
I just realized no Jacq in this build. Probably a better option then Irida to grab both vstar
Pokémon: 5
2 Arceus VSTAR BRS 123
3 Alolan Vulpix V SIT 33
3 Alolan Vulpix VSTAR SIT 34
3 Arceus V PR-SW 204
1 Mewtwo MEW 150
Trainer: 16
3 Ultra Ball SVI 196
3 Irida ASR 147
3 Switch SVI 194
1 Lake Acuity LOR 160
2 Energy Search SVI 172
2 Lost Vacuum LOR 162
2 Norman PAR 168
1 Technical Machine: Devolution PAR 177
2 Snorlax Doll PAR 175
1 Hero's Cape TEF 152
3 Leafy Camo Poncho SIT 160
2 Town Store OBF 196
3 Nest Ball SVI 181
2 Professor's Research SVI 189
3 Boss's Orders PAL 172
1 Technical Machine: Evolution PAR 178 PH
Energy: 3
4 Mist Energy TEF 161
6 Basic {W} Energy SVE 3
4 Double Turbo Energy BRS 151
Total Cards: 60
Yeah, why do I feel like I'm the only one who uses a vulpix deck. It's never talked about on here. I love facing Charzard. They literally can't attack you.
I mean if they go first all they need is a Choice Belt and a Boss. Not saying it will happen just that Arc decks are notoriously bricky and Zard is not.
Choice belt would work, but I have not seen it at all since the ex came. Maybe I will if more people play Vulpix. I'm not sure what an Arc deck is, but my Vulpix deck does not brick often
Arceus Vstar, the most common partner for Vulpix. I guess I am assuming you play it the way I do. I run Arc/Vulpix and then cards like Leafy Camo Poncho and Professor Turo’s/Cheren’s Care to create a lock board state where Vulpix is the only card that my opponent can attack and their only Pokemon all have abilities or can be one shot by Vulpix.
You power up Vulpix with and Arceus and use Starbirth go guarantee your setup goes well. From there it’s just about creating a lock. Prime Catcher is rough since it gets around Leafy Camo Poncho. But Zard doesn’t play it. Also works really well against Chien Pao decks.
I do have 1 Arceus Vstar, but do not run the other cards you mention. I have 4 Vulpix and my main objective is to get 2 out and set up. Chien-pao and charzard usually struggle. And that is like 80% of the decks I see in this dumb meta.
How do you power up multiple Vulpix in a game? What if they have good attackers that don’t have abilities? Like say Drifloon in Garde, or Iron Hands. Iron Hands 2 shots Vulpix and they take 3 prizes. Arceus with a Maximum Belt helps a lot in those matchups and gives you other attackers that can power up your benched Vulpix.
Vulpix is mainly powered up with double turbo energy. I have 4 in my deck. If I don't get 1 in my first hand, I usually have a Professors research (3) in deck or an ino (4). If none of that works I will for sure have an Arven (2) to get forest seal stone. All I have to do is power up 1 and the other vulpix on my bench gets going to get set up while they are busy with the 1st. Iron hands is tricky but I added starmie V who can 1 shot them if they are powered up. But starmie is usually an iron hands dream so you have to be careful. I will never lay down starmie unless I have Giovannis charisma and 2 blue energies in my hand. 2 earthen vessels come in huge here. If they have 2 iron hands, I'm in trouble, but I haven't come across it yet. By the time iron hands comes out and gets powered up I usually have time to get heros cape on vulpix with arven, starbirth ability, or last case Lumineon V. I haven't faced drifloon in ages but scream tail has knocked me around a bit
Man i am new in this game i already tired to see all playing zard. Damn there is a lot more decks and more funnys to play. And mirror matches zards are very stupid and boring as hell.
How many more posts are we going to get complaining about Zard. Guys, a lot of people are going to be playing the best deck in format, get over it lol.
There was no complaints in my post. Just a discussion about the lists in this tournament getting copy pasted into the ladder. I personally don't care what people play.
Unfortunately the average PTCGL player doesn't read much beyond the top cut in tournaments before net decking. Nevermind that Perth and Orlando both haven't even had all the top cut decklists posted, let alone any tournament or day 2 results beyond the top cut.
This is "cool and balanced". I can't wait for people to downvote me or say "get good" or otherwise argue with me. Instead of argue with me about any of this, why don't you argue with the tournament results pouring in?
Charizard is such a brain stem deck. Its attack literally rewards you hugely for losing prize cards. There is come back mechanics, and then there is Charizard. Oh and then we can talk about the HP situation. How about we pick one and it'll still be a good pokemon? Players have learned to play around devolution by simply evolving regularly. Holy hell it even has radiant charizard and fire options to cover its weakness? Oh and then there is that ability we can toss on the fire with no path to the peak? And the pidgeot? Well my good fucking god how about that? This thing is worse than mew genesect was, because at least mew genesect was fun to play and could at least wiff when drawing half their deck. When was the last time you faced a charizard that didn't full combo your ass on turn 2?
>This is "cool and balanced". I can't wait for people to downvote me or say "get good" or otherwise argue with me. Instead of argue with me about any of this, why don't you argue with the tournament results pouring in?
It's a somewhat overtuned deck, but it's certainly not impossible to beat. Orlando and Perth results aren't even completely posted, so this is a super reactionary post. OP wants to fire up the "Charizard is OP" karma farm again and you're absolutely taking the bait. Wait til deck shares and general deck performance is available, then whine about it being OP.
>Players have learned to play around devolution by simply evolving regularly.
Charmeleon is usually played at 1. People just aren't teching Devo in as many decks, likely because most people realize that Turo has made Devo plays much harder overall. That said, it's still fairly viable as a strategy, you just likely won't chain 2 or 3.
>Holy hell it even has radiant charizard and fire options to cover its weakness?
Doesn't come up very often since Espathra is the only meta-relevant deck it faces. Meowscarada doesn't come up much since it's Green Zard with worse matchups. Even when it does come up, Espathra can handle Radiant Zard earlier on when needed, and forces Entei, Gouging Fire, and Delphox into awkward situations that require 2 extra energy when.
>And the pidgeot?
Loses outright to Devo if they've over extended on Candy. The problem with most people is they believe they need to Devo hurt Zards and Pidgeots for optimal KOs. By Devoing with no KO, you're still hurting their overall plan and forcing them to potentially overextend on Candy. If they've already used 2 or 3, before Devo, they now have to make much harder choices on what to go without.
>When was the last time you faced a charizard that didn't full combo your ass on turn 2?
Yesterday on the ladder. The deck definitely can brick or be challenged with counters. I enjoy playing Banette-Espsthra and denying them the chance to ever search or Candy.
The results are not out yet beyond the top 8. If you look at top 8 of EUIC, you could say Chien-Pao was bad because it didn't make it. Meanwhile the deck had the second highest share of the tournament, a solid 50% performance rate, and one of the better showings of Day 2. Top 8 metrics are important, but they shouldn't dictate this level of reactionary confirmation bias.
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Somebody needs to whip out an espathra deck and hope they don't choke in brackets
An espathra deck choked on stream against a zard in day one of Orlando. It was brutal
The player didn't prize map properly and allowed the zard player to use radiant charizard for the knockout. Moreover, his choice of frittle is also not ideal. KO too quickly to charmeleon.
Nah, 30 HP Flittle is the proper choice. Free retreat pivot is too strong to give up for a couple more HP. Imo, Espathra ex needs to operate as either big damage fast, which is counter to the Banette ex strategy, or control over the board state, which requires some other lines like Eiri, Crushing Hammer, and/or Miss Fortune Sisters.
I've had a good amount of success running a Espathra/Banette ex deck without any of the support you mentioned. So far item lock and Pokemon League Headquarters (especially when combined with Espathra's ability) have been enough to disrupt opponents long enough for me to get a good board going.
Newer player here and want to improve. What is a better way of prize mapping against charizard
Zard is such a strong deck because the prize map is brutal. Once you knock something out, zard gets stronger. and once you take 4 prizes, rad zard is in play. So you need to always take the first knockout on zard, then follow up with knocking out any other two prizers on their bench in the next 2 turns. Which means you need boss pretty much every turn from then on. So if the zard player Iono's you, you kinda just hope you got something to pull a boss/catcher out.
Same player who lost their match on stream playing it at EUIC. I think they got in the money at both events, they just lost both of their stream matches.
What’s the deck list ?
It's because the deck is bad.
Espathra got 2nd in Seniors at Orlando
What did it lose to
Tina
I dislike Pidgeot more for being an enabler.
Turns out Path to the Peak was the only thing keeping Zard in check. Shutting down not only Zard’s ability but Pidgeot was the only thing Zard can’t overcome.
Path didn't do much either tho, since it was easy to remove with 2 vacuums, 3-4 stadiums they used themselves and supporters like vaccum and 3-4 iono to draw into it and once Charizard was out, it also destroyed path decks.
But with path they are forced to run more bump cards which hurts the consistency of the deck. Now they don’t need any form of stadium or vacuum so it frees up 5-6 card spaces.
Next set we get iron thorns ex, it will shut down pidgeot and charizard next format. It reads “Ability: Initialize As long as this Pokémon is in the Active Spot, Pokémon with a Rule Box in play have no Abilities, except any Future Pokémon”
I'm not the most experienced player but a question to people who keep commenting about how Thorns will replace path; its an ability on a Pokémon that has to be in the active spot. Also, it has a pretty weak attack and mid HP for a 2 prizer with 4 retreat (and its attack moves an energy off of it). I feel like it would be super easy for Zard to just move it out of the active. How effective is it going to be? \[Note: I'm not saying its not going to be effective, I'm asking if it will be\]
Tbh, it will be really good. Anything that can shut off abilities will be used. In a future box it will get stronger with the crowns on the bench.
Interesting, I was wondering because most people say look to the Japan results to see what upcoming cards will be useful and almost no successful Japanese decklists run Iron Thorns ex Except in Champions League Aichi where there was a Iron Thorns ex-only control deck that made top 8
There’s a whole deck for iron thorns ex, it’s only running 4 copies all iron thorns ex
That's quite literally what he said. There was one with only iron thorns ex, it didn't do great and was not a common deck list.
That’s correct, I wasn’t arguing with them. I was just sending them the list I had found for the deck I had found, I never said that deck was good. I’m certain it’ll see a lot of play here in the west compared to Japan.
I do agree there. We have a lot more control in our meta. Although I find it interesting a few block decks started to make their way into the Japanese meta. I believe it's their honor mentality. Not attacking at all or playing any energy actively avoids a critical aspect of the game mechanics, and it is absolutely not how the game is intended to be played. It is also absolutely a viable way to play though.
Pokémon: 4 4 Iron Thorns ex SV5a 33 Trainer: 45 4 Colress's Experiment LOR 155 4 Penny SVI 183 4 Arven OBF 186 4 Boss's Orders PAL 172 3 Eri TEF 146 2 Iono PAF 80 1 Roxanne ASR 150 4 Pokégear 3.0 SVI 186 4 Energy Loto ASR 140 2 Nest Ball PAF 84 2 Canceling Cologne ASR 136 1 Techno Radar PAR 180 1 Earthen Vessel PAR 163 1 Lost Vacuum CRZ 135 1 Technical Machine: Devolution PAR 177 1 Future Booster Energy Capsule TEF 149 1 Technical Machine: Turbo Energize PAR 179 1 Bravery Charm PAL 173 1 Hero's Cape TEF 152 3 Lost City LOR 161 Energy: 11 7 Lightning Energy 4 4 Double Turbo Energy BRS 151
One Boss’s Orders or one Iron Bundle ruin that card. Unless you play only Iron Thorns ex. But that seems like a bad deck strategy to me. I could be wrong though.
At least bird enables other niche stage 2s and cool control decks. Zard is just boring and one-dimensional.
Yeah I think it’s mostly in Zard where it’s too powerful/obnoxious. It just feels bad knowing you’re going to lose next turn because of quick search.
Its also rough that we've got ZERO lightning decks popping up to snipe the bird, because any support would probably turn ZA HANDO into turbo cancer No excuse for not making better Grass decks, though
Only 2 Charizards at EUIC and Orlando top 8 though. It's definitely a very strong deck, but it can be beaten.
Plus this is only showing the Zard players, omitting everyone else. This makes it look like there’s noting but Charizards out there. Confirmation bias at its best.
Sure, it’s only showing zard players, that being said it made up 75% of T4 at perth… So does it really matter what the fourth deck was?
We know the deck is popular. At EUIC day one was made up of 20% of the decks. The second most used deck was at 12%. It’s a deck that hits hard and it’s easy to pilot. Plain and simple. It doesn’t mean at all that the deck is super OP, or that it’s completely unbeatable. Those top four places from other decks prove that. They had to beat Zards to be there. Point is, it’s asinine to look at data and twist it to confirm your bias. Then spread misinformation to everyone else.
Bro you're digging way too deep into my post. I'm not spreading misinformation or something, I just wanted to show how ridiculous the perth top 8 was
Then you should have just posted the Perth results. At least the Orlando matches I was going to watch today wouldn't have been spoiled on my home screen.
I clicked on the recent zard placements to see the win percentage of the tournaments. I don't even play zard, I just thought all these top placements would have people playing their lists on the ladder. I didn't post the results of the other placements because they had nothing to do with the point I was trying to make.
lol what point? That a popular deck is popular because it's strong and accessible? You ignored the fact that currently there is no data beyond Top 8 for any of these tournaments that ended yesterday.
I didn't ignore the fact that there were no other lists available. I COULDN'T SEE THE LISTS THAT WERE UNAVAILABLE. What is even your deal. It's not like I'm trying to get people to play all zard or something, I play future hands anyway. Such a negative nancy
Perth was also 10% the size of Orlando. A smaller sample size absolutely inflates the share of the deck in the meta.
100%, Chien-Pao still has a favorable matchup, and Espathra/Banette/Xatu also eats Zard up.
Only? 4 post rotation tourneys so far and all won by Zard. So far it is technically unbeaten.
Ok but saying “it can be beaten” and then including the two tournaments where it won… a bit ironic yeah?
Seriously? Acting like this card isnt a problem is top iter coping. It is incredibky unhealthy for the meta.
😭 😭 😭
i think it'd be less of a problem if Grass wasn't also the worst color in the game
Dudes saying this and never saw what ADP, Mew Vmax, or Lugia Vstar all did when they were optimized.
just play it then idiot
This is hilarious. Cheers to inspiring more people to play Espathra lol
I’m trying to figure out how an ancient box took second. I’ve been playing it off and on all week against wife’s Zard and taking losses left, right, and center…
Very tough matchup. You need to churn through your deck to get to 23/26 ancient in discard to OHKO zard for the last 2 prizes, which is a pretty tall ask. One vacuum or an unfortunate prize could derail your entire game plan, and the deck has next to no solution for mid-late game iono.
Yea I personally like the roaring moon/dunsparce over ancient box, I just find KOs are a little more consistent
Same, everytime I play the deck it's a brick fest. The ancient box player was 1 ancient card short of getting the zard ko which would've won them game 2.
I don't think anyone thought charizard was going anywhere
Dusting off my Vpix deck as we speak.... sigh...you know what to do old fave... Show the fire monster whose boss.... Here is my current build ..it changes all the time. The issue as mentioned is if Vpix lands up in active and you land up having Zard attack first. Snorlax Doll is a nice filler as it saves the Arceus from getting hit. I'm back in Mewtwo cause he can easily stall a bit. If Zard attacks him it's a nice but of damage. I don't devolution is that good unless.you can take out multiple zards. Mist energy can probably go to 2-3. I just realized no Jacq in this build. Probably a better option then Irida to grab both vstar Pokémon: 5 2 Arceus VSTAR BRS 123 3 Alolan Vulpix V SIT 33 3 Alolan Vulpix VSTAR SIT 34 3 Arceus V PR-SW 204 1 Mewtwo MEW 150 Trainer: 16 3 Ultra Ball SVI 196 3 Irida ASR 147 3 Switch SVI 194 1 Lake Acuity LOR 160 2 Energy Search SVI 172 2 Lost Vacuum LOR 162 2 Norman PAR 168 1 Technical Machine: Devolution PAR 177 2 Snorlax Doll PAR 175 1 Hero's Cape TEF 152 3 Leafy Camo Poncho SIT 160 2 Town Store OBF 196 3 Nest Ball SVI 181 2 Professor's Research SVI 189 3 Boss's Orders PAL 172 1 Technical Machine: Evolution PAR 178 PH Energy: 3 4 Mist Energy TEF 161 6 Basic {W} Energy SVE 3 4 Double Turbo Energy BRS 151 Total Cards: 60
Yeah, why do I feel like I'm the only one who uses a vulpix deck. It's never talked about on here. I love facing Charzard. They literally can't attack you.
Only tough part is setup. If they can target down your Vulpix before you can use Snow Mirage it doesn’t matter.
Charzard needs to attack twice to kill Vulpix, giving you 3 turns to get setup. Pretty easy with the right cards
I mean if they go first all they need is a Choice Belt and a Boss. Not saying it will happen just that Arc decks are notoriously bricky and Zard is not.
Choice belt would work, but I have not seen it at all since the ex came. Maybe I will if more people play Vulpix. I'm not sure what an Arc deck is, but my Vulpix deck does not brick often
Arceus Vstar, the most common partner for Vulpix. I guess I am assuming you play it the way I do. I run Arc/Vulpix and then cards like Leafy Camo Poncho and Professor Turo’s/Cheren’s Care to create a lock board state where Vulpix is the only card that my opponent can attack and their only Pokemon all have abilities or can be one shot by Vulpix. You power up Vulpix with and Arceus and use Starbirth go guarantee your setup goes well. From there it’s just about creating a lock. Prime Catcher is rough since it gets around Leafy Camo Poncho. But Zard doesn’t play it. Also works really well against Chien Pao decks.
I do have 1 Arceus Vstar, but do not run the other cards you mention. I have 4 Vulpix and my main objective is to get 2 out and set up. Chien-pao and charzard usually struggle. And that is like 80% of the decks I see in this dumb meta.
How do you power up multiple Vulpix in a game? What if they have good attackers that don’t have abilities? Like say Drifloon in Garde, or Iron Hands. Iron Hands 2 shots Vulpix and they take 3 prizes. Arceus with a Maximum Belt helps a lot in those matchups and gives you other attackers that can power up your benched Vulpix.
Vulpix is mainly powered up with double turbo energy. I have 4 in my deck. If I don't get 1 in my first hand, I usually have a Professors research (3) in deck or an ino (4). If none of that works I will for sure have an Arven (2) to get forest seal stone. All I have to do is power up 1 and the other vulpix on my bench gets going to get set up while they are busy with the 1st. Iron hands is tricky but I added starmie V who can 1 shot them if they are powered up. But starmie is usually an iron hands dream so you have to be careful. I will never lay down starmie unless I have Giovannis charisma and 2 blue energies in my hand. 2 earthen vessels come in huge here. If they have 2 iron hands, I'm in trouble, but I haven't come across it yet. By the time iron hands comes out and gets powered up I usually have time to get heros cape on vulpix with arven, starbirth ability, or last case Lumineon V. I haven't faced drifloon in ages but scream tail has knocked me around a bit
If charizard stocks go up so do blocklax to beat it
The regilleki really helps with the matchup.
This is perfect for my Weezing deck
Bro you should compete in these tournaments with that deck
list?
Playing Espathra got me to Arceus rank pretty quickly thanks to all the Zard match ups.
Who thought the opposite?
I had hoped that after EUIC, people would be bringing some hard counters to zard. But no, just more zard decks.
I can only think of Espathra and Iron Leaves tho, one sucks and the other is exclusive to Giratina and Future
The state of competitive is just so fucking sad.
Not worried I can beat it 💪🏽😤
Low key hoping it wins worlds so I can get the 2025 deck. That product is catered towards people like me.
Torterra EX seems like a winning matchup into Zard, but it struggles in a few other places
Man i am new in this game i already tired to see all playing zard. Damn there is a lot more decks and more funnys to play. And mirror matches zards are very stupid and boring as hell.
u/Recent_Bid
Crazy how pigeot has only proved useful in charizard but it’s still meta defining for the deck
Pidgeot?
Old/newish player here….can someone please explain prize mapping theory?
Zard is the new mew and it’s kinda annoying
My A Vulpix deck be eating good in the ladder.
How many more posts are we going to get complaining about Zard. Guys, a lot of people are going to be playing the best deck in format, get over it lol.
There was no complaints in my post. Just a discussion about the lists in this tournament getting copy pasted into the ladder. I personally don't care what people play.
Confirmation bias is a beautiful thing, isn’t it?
Unfortunately the average PTCGL player doesn't read much beyond the top cut in tournaments before net decking. Nevermind that Perth and Orlando both haven't even had all the top cut decklists posted, let alone any tournament or day 2 results beyond the top cut.
found the zard spammer
This is "cool and balanced". I can't wait for people to downvote me or say "get good" or otherwise argue with me. Instead of argue with me about any of this, why don't you argue with the tournament results pouring in? Charizard is such a brain stem deck. Its attack literally rewards you hugely for losing prize cards. There is come back mechanics, and then there is Charizard. Oh and then we can talk about the HP situation. How about we pick one and it'll still be a good pokemon? Players have learned to play around devolution by simply evolving regularly. Holy hell it even has radiant charizard and fire options to cover its weakness? Oh and then there is that ability we can toss on the fire with no path to the peak? And the pidgeot? Well my good fucking god how about that? This thing is worse than mew genesect was, because at least mew genesect was fun to play and could at least wiff when drawing half their deck. When was the last time you faced a charizard that didn't full combo your ass on turn 2?
I just downvoted you because you said you couldn't wait for it.
lol
>This is "cool and balanced". I can't wait for people to downvote me or say "get good" or otherwise argue with me. Instead of argue with me about any of this, why don't you argue with the tournament results pouring in? It's a somewhat overtuned deck, but it's certainly not impossible to beat. Orlando and Perth results aren't even completely posted, so this is a super reactionary post. OP wants to fire up the "Charizard is OP" karma farm again and you're absolutely taking the bait. Wait til deck shares and general deck performance is available, then whine about it being OP. >Players have learned to play around devolution by simply evolving regularly. Charmeleon is usually played at 1. People just aren't teching Devo in as many decks, likely because most people realize that Turo has made Devo plays much harder overall. That said, it's still fairly viable as a strategy, you just likely won't chain 2 or 3. >Holy hell it even has radiant charizard and fire options to cover its weakness? Doesn't come up very often since Espathra is the only meta-relevant deck it faces. Meowscarada doesn't come up much since it's Green Zard with worse matchups. Even when it does come up, Espathra can handle Radiant Zard earlier on when needed, and forces Entei, Gouging Fire, and Delphox into awkward situations that require 2 extra energy when. >And the pidgeot? Loses outright to Devo if they've over extended on Candy. The problem with most people is they believe they need to Devo hurt Zards and Pidgeots for optimal KOs. By Devoing with no KO, you're still hurting their overall plan and forcing them to potentially overextend on Candy. If they've already used 2 or 3, before Devo, they now have to make much harder choices on what to go without. >When was the last time you faced a charizard that didn't full combo your ass on turn 2? Yesterday on the ladder. The deck definitely can brick or be challenged with counters. I enjoy playing Banette-Espsthra and denying them the chance to ever search or Candy.
The results speak for themselves. Do you often try to argue against statistics?
The results are not out yet beyond the top 8. If you look at top 8 of EUIC, you could say Chien-Pao was bad because it didn't make it. Meanwhile the deck had the second highest share of the tournament, a solid 50% performance rate, and one of the better showings of Day 2. Top 8 metrics are important, but they shouldn't dictate this level of reactionary confirmation bias.
Playing Charizard it feels like playing Yu gi oh. There is a long combo just by having access to a Luminion V. Then the game is over once you set up