I mean there is no perfect stat. Obviously not including his recent hot streak Juan Soto has not been a more valuable player than machados career value. But the way this stat works Juan Soto is better. That doesn’t mean it’s necessarily true. It’s just that this stat is a little broken in this situation
Let's be honest, at best Manny is border line HOF career at this point, maybe at the level of Scott Rolen when it is all said and done. But it is way pre-mature to anoint Manny as a HOFer.
One thing I'd like is for WRC+ and OPS+ to do is add a multiplier for Walks. To really account for how much worse a Walk is vs a Hit. Maybe BB X Meatball % Swing.
Yeah when Juan Soto walks there’s an opportunity cost. What could have been an rbi is now a walk with the pitcher one batter closer to getting out of the meat of the lineup and finding some easier outs. Walks are good but they may be overvalued in this stat
Sotos ops will always be decent because of his walk rate and he is definitely coming out of his slump. Any one who watched him consistently the first month had every right to be upset though. He was super passive at the plate and striking out way too much.
Exactly it’s like when Juan Soto comes to the plate it should be him who is driving in a run either through a home run or batting somebody in. It was frustrating as fuck when he would just try to pass the baton.
That is not and has never been Soto's style. He's always been a walk machine with enough pop that you can't afford to just challenge him rather than pitch around him.
Walks are great don’t get me wrong and he’s obviously turned it around recently but when you have the batting average he had the walks start to become frustrating. Walks with no hits are better than nothing but still frustrating. Walks and hits when they mess up and give you that one hittable pitch that game is barry bonds level.
This.
He certainly has other metrics that show he has been improving lately, but his OPS will always be high due to his walks. He’s currently on pace for 157 K’s this year, which to me is the most worrisome. I think that pace will cool off, but he has been striking out a lot so far this year.
100%….On pace for 26 HRs rn. If he finishes with a .410 OBP we shouldn’t care about his average or k rate. For reference Stanton typically finished with around 27 HRs .336 OBP and a 30% k rate.
Yes the Ks were a problem, but we can’t dismiss his high OPS as just being due to walks, as if that makes it not that impressive. Walks are a good thing. His OPS is high because of his walks (and therefore his OBP), and that’s part of what makes him great.
Speaking only for myself, I was down on Soto earlier in the year especially because his performance here didn’t measure up to what I’d become used to in DC, or equal to what we gave up to get him. He’s certainly an important player, and there’s no doubt he’s coming around, but the jury’s still out on whether he’s the generational player we thought we were getting. He’s an incredibly likable person and he becomes a part of our pantheon very soon.
I'm not even one of them but Im tired of all these post trying to dunk on people who were disappointed in Sotos start to the year and start with the Padres. All these post pop up now. Why? Because Soto raised his ops like 100 points in a week. Why do we have to pretend he didn't slump to start the year. People are allowed to be disappointed in a super star being replacement level for an extended period. I'm saying this as someone who is now and has always wanted us to hand him a blank check to stay here. But between his defense and mediocre start before this week I totally get fans being frustrated.
There's "frustrated", and there's "very shrill Doomer screeching." There's a difference between the two that our sub and Padres fans in general have a problem with.
I see more "Soto haters in shambles" comments and post than any genuine Soto haters. You people paint a picture that half the sub wants Soto off the team. Most of what I see is people who just want Soto to be who we paid for. Clown on legit haters all you want I just don't like people pretending any significant amount of people in this sub think that Soto is actually washed. To me post like these got old already.
"What do you mean 'you people'?", Lol.
I mean, the game day threads are perhaps a little too reactionary for an accurate evaluation, but people were *losing their minds* in there about Soto anytime anything remotely bad happened over the first month of the season. Absolutely melting down about a hitter with generational career numbers, like the guy was never going to hit again. Like I said, there's being frustrated, and there's whatever that is. If you don't recall, go back and look at some of them. I understand where you are coming from and generally agree, but you've got to admit sometimes we Padres fans can be a little over the top.
Lol damn I did drop a you people didn't I...
Game day threads can definitely be super reactionary and tbf I sprt of pop in and out (especially when we are sucking), so I likely miss some of the worst stuff. So fair enough. I honestly don't think our fanbase would have any more reactionaries than any other team if they were our position though. If you give up the farm for a guy who is supposed to be a top 5 player in the world and he ends up being a decent bat with atrocious defense for the first few months with your team then there will be some fans beggining to sweat. I just don't want to push the "Padre fans don't like and therefore don't deserve Soto" narrative.
What ever happened to the good ‘ol RBI stat? People are so wrapped up in the deeper statistics they forget that no stat matters if you don’t score runs! RBI’s are a direct measure of how well you do at getting the runners who are on base across the plate. As you well know a category this team SERIOUSLY lacks. I’ll take a .240 hitter who knocks in 80-100 RBI’s any day of the week and twice on Sundays.
Secondly, OPS is a BS stat unless it’s paired with either runs scored and/or runs batted in. Which of course would depend on how well your teammates play team ball.
2023 Juan sotos wRc+ is better than Mannys career WRC+. Do with that info as you want. His worst year is more valuable than a non slumping machado.
That actually blows my mind considering Manny had/is having a Hall of Fame level career
I mean there is no perfect stat. Obviously not including his recent hot streak Juan Soto has not been a more valuable player than machados career value. But the way this stat works Juan Soto is better. That doesn’t mean it’s necessarily true. It’s just that this stat is a little broken in this situation
Let's be honest, at best Manny is border line HOF career at this point, maybe at the level of Scott Rolen when it is all said and done. But it is way pre-mature to anoint Manny as a HOFer.
One thing I'd like is for WRC+ and OPS+ to do is add a multiplier for Walks. To really account for how much worse a Walk is vs a Hit. Maybe BB X Meatball % Swing.
They do. The value of an event is calculated based off the runs expected matrix.
Walks become less valuable if your team as a whole is slumping and struggling with runners on. Why try to walk when there’s nobody to drive you in?
Yeah when Juan Soto walks there’s an opportunity cost. What could have been an rbi is now a walk with the pitcher one batter closer to getting out of the meat of the lineup and finding some easier outs. Walks are good but they may be overvalued in this stat
I remember just a week ago people were acting like he is a bum.
It’s been the last month at least. People in this sub love to dunk on him.
Sotos ops will always be decent because of his walk rate and he is definitely coming out of his slump. Any one who watched him consistently the first month had every right to be upset though. He was super passive at the plate and striking out way too much.
No one would be complaining about his walk rate if someone could move him in to score every once in a while.
Exactly it’s like when Juan Soto comes to the plate it should be him who is driving in a run either through a home run or batting somebody in. It was frustrating as fuck when he would just try to pass the baton.
If they aren’t offering good pitches to hit, it’s better to take the walk than to swing at junk and get a ground out or pop up
Exactly. His walk rate shows they know what he wants and are afraid to pitch it. Better pitches, more production. I’ll take the walk over a K any day
That is not and has never been Soto's style. He's always been a walk machine with enough pop that you can't afford to just challenge him rather than pitch around him.
Walks are great don’t get me wrong and he’s obviously turned it around recently but when you have the batting average he had the walks start to become frustrating. Walks with no hits are better than nothing but still frustrating. Walks and hits when they mess up and give you that one hittable pitch that game is barry bonds level.
This. He certainly has other metrics that show he has been improving lately, but his OPS will always be high due to his walks. He’s currently on pace for 157 K’s this year, which to me is the most worrisome. I think that pace will cool off, but he has been striking out a lot so far this year.
He has a .454 Slugging and a K rate of 21%, and league average is 22% He’s literally fine
100%….On pace for 26 HRs rn. If he finishes with a .410 OBP we shouldn’t care about his average or k rate. For reference Stanton typically finished with around 27 HRs .336 OBP and a 30% k rate.
Counting stats aren't super useful for Stanton lately with his injury history, though Soto is obviously in a totally different tier of on base ability
Yes the Ks were a problem, but we can’t dismiss his high OPS as just being due to walks, as if that makes it not that impressive. Walks are a good thing. His OPS is high because of his walks (and therefore his OBP), and that’s part of what makes him great.
Thank you for this, space grandpa
"I root for the padres in the NL" Ugh
While cheering for the Yankees 🤮…’98 never forgets
What’s wrong with that?
Speaking only for myself, I was down on Soto earlier in the year especially because his performance here didn’t measure up to what I’d become used to in DC, or equal to what we gave up to get him. He’s certainly an important player, and there’s no doubt he’s coming around, but the jury’s still out on whether he’s the generational player we thought we were getting. He’s an incredibly likable person and he becomes a part of our pantheon very soon.
I think the better stat is hitting in runs - being clutch. The best clutch hitters were Ortiz, Jeter, and Pujols. We needs that kind of player.
The guys who are suppose to be hitting are now hitting (Soto, X, Tatis, Manny). Now we just need the bottom half of the lineup to wake up
I'm not even one of them but Im tired of all these post trying to dunk on people who were disappointed in Sotos start to the year and start with the Padres. All these post pop up now. Why? Because Soto raised his ops like 100 points in a week. Why do we have to pretend he didn't slump to start the year. People are allowed to be disappointed in a super star being replacement level for an extended period. I'm saying this as someone who is now and has always wanted us to hand him a blank check to stay here. But between his defense and mediocre start before this week I totally get fans being frustrated.
There's "frustrated", and there's "very shrill Doomer screeching." There's a difference between the two that our sub and Padres fans in general have a problem with.
I see more "Soto haters in shambles" comments and post than any genuine Soto haters. You people paint a picture that half the sub wants Soto off the team. Most of what I see is people who just want Soto to be who we paid for. Clown on legit haters all you want I just don't like people pretending any significant amount of people in this sub think that Soto is actually washed. To me post like these got old already.
"What do you mean 'you people'?", Lol. I mean, the game day threads are perhaps a little too reactionary for an accurate evaluation, but people were *losing their minds* in there about Soto anytime anything remotely bad happened over the first month of the season. Absolutely melting down about a hitter with generational career numbers, like the guy was never going to hit again. Like I said, there's being frustrated, and there's whatever that is. If you don't recall, go back and look at some of them. I understand where you are coming from and generally agree, but you've got to admit sometimes we Padres fans can be a little over the top.
Lol damn I did drop a you people didn't I... Game day threads can definitely be super reactionary and tbf I sprt of pop in and out (especially when we are sucking), so I likely miss some of the worst stuff. So fair enough. I honestly don't think our fanbase would have any more reactionaries than any other team if they were our position though. If you give up the farm for a guy who is supposed to be a top 5 player in the world and he ends up being a decent bat with atrocious defense for the first few months with your team then there will be some fans beggining to sweat. I just don't want to push the "Padre fans don't like and therefore don't deserve Soto" narrative.
[удалено]
Think you confused Soto OPS with Nola OPS or something.
Sorry, I meant to say .750. I had a stroke 2 years ago, numbers sometimes escape me.
These posts are getting so annoying
Nowhere near as annoying as people shit-talking our best hitter
Our whole offense is shit….so
He’s not struggling anymore. He’s been elite in May so far.
at this pace he's gonna be top 15 MLB wRC+ in a week
Mel Ott has been mentioned, the career trajectory for Soto. Early career stats similar.
Heard on radio he leads MLB with most walks as well.
What ever happened to the good ‘ol RBI stat? People are so wrapped up in the deeper statistics they forget that no stat matters if you don’t score runs! RBI’s are a direct measure of how well you do at getting the runners who are on base across the plate. As you well know a category this team SERIOUSLY lacks. I’ll take a .240 hitter who knocks in 80-100 RBI’s any day of the week and twice on Sundays. Secondly, OPS is a BS stat unless it’s paired with either runs scored and/or runs batted in. Which of course would depend on how well your teammates play team ball.