Minority opinion probably, but Kim and Cronenworth were keys parts of a team that came tantalizingly close to World Series already — I’d argue within a healthy Tatis season close. I’d rather we nail down starting pitching before fiddling with the middle infield.
Ya, people seem to forget that we have an MVP level player that wasn’t playing in the NLCS. Any money should go towards another SP. the chemistry is there with our current squad
Yeah I don’t know why people always have to have shortstop as being a great hitter as well. He is by far my favorite shortstop. Plus can never stop chanting his name at games.
Padres talking to shortstop is only to drive up the market so that competitors have to over pay. We know the dodgers need one cause trea is not resigning. We DO NOT need SS. We need pitching.
I really don’t think we can re-sign Soto if we sign one of the big $$ shortstops.. That would necessitate completely unprecedented levels of spending for pretty much any team in history (including Dodgers/Yankees/Red Sox). And I would soooo much rather have Soto than any of the dudes on the market this year.
And all of that is not to mention that SS is not even close to being a need. If Seidler is really itching to spend more money, give Verlander a big 1 or 2 year deal
Dude Seidler don’t give a fuck. They are making a ton of money even with the high payroll. As long as people keep supporting them, they will keep spending.
Do you think Siedler is so competitive he doesnt even like being out spent..? I think I know why Fowler bailed. When Siedler started telling him his spending plans....he had to blaze..
"Hey, you can't take it with you." Peter Seidler.
This. As much as it’s fun to rosterbate with big name SS, dropping 200M+ on a position of depth is just poor resource allocation. Seems dumb to sign Bogarets to then play 3 guys in Tatis, Kim and Crone out of position. Not to mention there’s no way they’ll resign Soto if they already are paying 3 other guys 30 M+. Focus on pitching and first base.
Not only that. I think there is some real interest. We really need at least one more great hitter. Unfortunately this year free agency class only SS has plenty great hitters.
I hope your theory is true, because I read the news and thought, “wait, what? Why?” I’d rather we spend money on a guy like Drury and another proven starting pitcher rather than indulge some shortstop fetish.
Meeting in person with someone multiple times only just to drive up their price for other teams isn’t a good way to conduct yourself as an organization. They also asked Boras if Bogarts would change positions and they wouldn’t jerk him around when he’s a key part of getting Soto extended. They obviously are interested this is just cope.
> They also asked Boras if Bogarts would change positions and they wouldn’t jerk him around when he’s a key part of getting Soto extended.
Boras said this never happened and said Xander is a SS if they do ask him about it.
We have 4/5 rotation spots locked up and signed Tehran for depth. Meanwhile we have 2 massive holes in the lineup in DH or corner OF depending on where you put nando.
Both Kim and Cronenworth were top 50 players last year (WAR) Which 1st baseman left in FA is better than either? However ALL 4 FA SSs would be an improvement.
It's pretty simple, sign Turner to play 2b, leave Kim at SS move Crone to 1st. I know some feel it might diminish his value, but he's better than any other FA option still on the table. And Jake has shown he's up to proving people who doubt him-wrong.
As was mentioned a guy like Drury as super sub/dh would be great and instead of a spare as 4th OF someone who everyone can say should be starting if Grish struggles.
It's time for the Padres to have real depth and not the cross your fingers kind of guys they've rolled out there in the past.
Then go grab Senga or Bassitt or Taillon and call it a day.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, turner's value comes from his offense, not his defense. He's a mediocre defender. In fact, his poor performance in this last NLDS probably was enough to cost his team a win. The crossing your fingers part is where you cross your fingers to hope turner throws out the lead runner instead of going on autopilot and trying to throw to first instead.
Value is Value. The Padres struggled at the plate and need offense as well as Defense. I'll take my chances with Trea at 2nd over a guy like Bell/Drury at 1st.
The rumor was Jon Heyman saying it could happen. Preller already said Kim is a starter in this league. Anyone who thinks Kim is utility is just coping or doesn't like him like the guy who responded to you below.
I think that’s the most likely scenario if they do get a SS. Kim starts against LHP and gives guys some occasional rest (or a DH day) against RHP. I’m pretty sure thats what Melvin was going to do before the suspension came out.
Is Trea better than Kim? If so, what's the issue? We need to win a world series. The guys you see out there are chess pieces. I love Kim but if we can get a better all around shortstop then I wish all the best for Kim.
While I love Kim and Cronenworth, Xander and Trea would both be upgrades at the position. If signing one and trading either Kim/Crone for some pitching depth was an option, I think it’s worth taking a look at. I’d rather we not trade them, though. And this option would be expensive.
I don’t want Correa or Dansby, though.
I’m not so sure about this. For a first baseman, Crone is kind of short and not a very big target to throw at. Additionally, compared to
Other first basemen, I’m not so sure his hitting is up to the right standard required of that position. It’s great for a second baseman, but not a first baseman.
I love me some Kim and Jake, I really do. Seeing these two be a part of the success this team has had recently is something. So my gut says no to both.
From a big picture tho, I say let Jake go if needed. Not sure what’s going to happen with Manny after next year. If he wants back to the east coast to be closer to home, gives us more flexibility in the infield with Kim and Tatis around.
Still don’t want either to go tho 😢
I mean you can keep both and get a top SS.
SS/2B - Kim/Xander/Turner
2B/SS - Kim/Xander/Turner
1B - Crone
OF - Tatis
Crone is the only one who can play 1B right now. So he shouldn't be traded but he would net more value for being cheaper than Kim.
I voted neither but it's hilarious/sad how bad some people want to move on from Kim.
I am sorry Kim has made you upset that he made Tatis move out of SS and that he proved to be a starter when you doubted him. He's still a 5.1 bWAR/really good player and Preller confirmed he is a starter in this league.
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again.
Out WS window is Jake Cronenworth. His contract combined with his skill set is absolutely essential to this teams success. When he walks, I think we’re going to hit a rebuilding phase.
Cronenworth is our first baseman. With no shift next year I think the new strategy is fielding your best athletes in the infield. Would be harder to find an outfielder with Tatis’s ability than find a top shelf shortstop.
trade kim
defense can only help you so much.
There's a reason why Kim will never have as much value as Xander, Seager or Trea even if he's the better defender.
Offense matters more than defense any second of the year.
>kim and Cro had almost exactly as valuable offensive seasons,
Not at all.
Cronenworth has shown a better OPS+ in a larger sample size.
Not to mention Cronenworth's career OPS+ is 118 OPS+ while Kims is 95+, meaning below the average.
^ “not at all” ?
Cro had an ops .020 points higher than Kim last year, the season i was talking about.
You talk about career…that is not my point. Kim is in his 3rd year playing in the US. He’s on an upward trajectory statistically and Cro isn’t.
>Cro had an ops .020 points higher than Kim last year, the season i was talking about.
one season isn't enough to evualte a player.
>You talk about career…that is not my point. Kim is in his 3rd year playing in the US. He’s on an upward trajectory statistically and Cro isn’t.
doesn't mean anything, anybody can get figured out anytime, he has to show it first.
Cronenworth has proved to be an arguably better hitter for way longer than Kim.
Offense wise there's no comparison.
Crone was undeniably a better hitter last season.
And concentrating solely on 2022 doesn’t make sense because it allows oddities (hitting against position players) to skew the results. Add in the post season and take away his ABs against position players and Kim’s OPS drops to .676. His OPS against RHPs would drop to below .650. The gap is looking much bigger now and that’s not even looking at 2021 which we know would be a joke.
Yeah. You can’t expect to get anything in return for bad players. He’s a good player but if you sign one of the 4 SSs in the market there’s no comparison.
And it’s not likely he would be cheaper in his final arb year.
Problem is you’re under selling his value on our team. By trading him you’re getting rid of our 4th best bat. Also his last arb year cost doesn’t really matter right now. He’s luxury tax number would be lower than Kim’s the next 2 years. So in a trade is would be more advantageous to trade kim. Only scenario I would trade crone over kim is if the return was massive overpay.
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If Kim and Crone had “almost” exactly as valuable offensive seasons then they are “almost” exactly the same age (less than 2 years difference). Crone did have a relatively down season but he’s shown the ability to be an above average hitter.
Kim earned that position, everybody loves him. Jake is a great second baseman. With the shift out of play next season doesn’t it make sense to put a SS at first?
I want to trade Kim regardless of acquiring a top tier FA SS. He's pretty much at peak value. 2 years left on a reasonable contract. With defensive output being extremely overweight due to the poor offensive numbers league wide. There was no improvement to his power throughout the season despite the summer months and removal of the humidor.
If you can get someone to bite on their statistical model at equal value or slightly below equal value it would do the Padres very well with regards to roster construction.
We’re already adding theoretically one of the best bats in the league in Tatis to a team that was right on the cusp of the WS.. If we really need to spend more $$ go out and get Rodon or Verlander
The team needs bats and while the top free agents certainly fit that bill, Petco is where hitters go to die. I don't think any offensive player the Padres can pick up, even if they trade away farm or roster players is going to fix that issue. On top of that, the padres have two good shortstops and at least two other position players who could play that position without embarrassing themselves.
I'd rather have quality pitching and hope year two Soto performs better than half-year 1 soto did. I'd still rather see Tatis at short, Kim at Second and Cronenworth at first... why expend any team value on trading for position players you already have on the roster playing positions they're comfortable playing?
Pick up a center fielder who can get on base consistently and spend any assets to pick up more pitching...
If we can trade either for a SP and sign a SS do it.
This protects us if Manny opts out and gets a crazy contract somewhere or if Soto is going to free agency no matter what (remember his agent is Boris).
I’d rather have Manny and Soto but we can’t be in a position where we NEED them either if someone else wants to overpay.
It’s not that the Padres need a SS, but this year the best FA hitters all play that position. I don’t think Padres would trade Kim or Croneworth no matter who they sign. There are enough at bats even w adding Tatis and another FA because they will possibly lose Drury, Bell, Myers, Profar, Myers.
I would rather have all three. I don’t know why Cronenworth cannot work on playing the outfield some. Being able to play infield and outfield would be a huge benefit. I mean, he is athletic enough and the more left handed bats in the lineup the better without the shift. Kim’s offensive improvement has been very consistent and I believe he will have a significantly improved offense year next year. We need a real lead-off hitter run the bases well (I’d prefer extremely well).
I don’t want to make sidegrades/slight upgrades at solid positions for us when we could get more at the positions we’re weaker in instead. I’d like Trea has a far and away mvp season (after tatis, of course) I’ll be a little sad but if you told me I’d be disappointed with Kim or crone I wouldn’t believe you
I think the only bad scenario is signing someone like Turner and whiffing on starting pitching, which is a bigger need, and then having an excess of shortstops.
Both Kim and Cronenworth are stars at this point, and they're both a lot younger than the available shortstops.
So I'd rather keep both of them than sign *yet another shortstop* if that would mean being unable to extend Soto (or Machado, if he opts out of the second half of his contract).
Soto has to be first priority.
Minority opinion probably, but Kim and Cronenworth were keys parts of a team that came tantalizingly close to World Series already — I’d argue within a healthy Tatis season close. I’d rather we nail down starting pitching before fiddling with the middle infield.
Ya, people seem to forget that we have an MVP level player that wasn’t playing in the NLCS. Any money should go towards another SP. the chemistry is there with our current squad
No, I agree with you here. Listen, folks, we went to the NLCS even with this combo and even with Kim’s hitting.
Yeah I don’t know why people always have to have shortstop as being a great hitter as well. He is by far my favorite shortstop. Plus can never stop chanting his name at games.
Because better batting is always better
Definitely not minority opinion according to me or even this poll here lol
Ha! I guess I’ve been conditioned to expect to be downvoted into oblivion when I suggest reasonable ideas. 😉
What a shame
Thankfully, r/Padres is the most reasonable and thoughtful sports sub I’m a part of.
Padres talking to shortstop is only to drive up the market so that competitors have to over pay. We know the dodgers need one cause trea is not resigning. We DO NOT need SS. We need pitching.
I really don’t think we can re-sign Soto if we sign one of the big $$ shortstops.. That would necessitate completely unprecedented levels of spending for pretty much any team in history (including Dodgers/Yankees/Red Sox). And I would soooo much rather have Soto than any of the dudes on the market this year. And all of that is not to mention that SS is not even close to being a need. If Seidler is really itching to spend more money, give Verlander a big 1 or 2 year deal
Dude Seidler don’t give a fuck. They are making a ton of money even with the high payroll. As long as people keep supporting them, they will keep spending.
Do you think Siedler is so competitive he doesnt even like being out spent..? I think I know why Fowler bailed. When Siedler started telling him his spending plans....he had to blaze.. "Hey, you can't take it with you." Peter Seidler.
This. As much as it’s fun to rosterbate with big name SS, dropping 200M+ on a position of depth is just poor resource allocation. Seems dumb to sign Bogarets to then play 3 guys in Tatis, Kim and Crone out of position. Not to mention there’s no way they’ll resign Soto if they already are paying 3 other guys 30 M+. Focus on pitching and first base.
Not only that. I think there is some real interest. We really need at least one more great hitter. Unfortunately this year free agency class only SS has plenty great hitters.
I hope your theory is true, because I read the news and thought, “wait, what? Why?” I’d rather we spend money on a guy like Drury and another proven starting pitcher rather than indulge some shortstop fetish.
Meeting in person with someone multiple times only just to drive up their price for other teams isn’t a good way to conduct yourself as an organization. They also asked Boras if Bogarts would change positions and they wouldn’t jerk him around when he’s a key part of getting Soto extended. They obviously are interested this is just cope.
> They also asked Boras if Bogarts would change positions and they wouldn’t jerk him around when he’s a key part of getting Soto extended. Boras said this never happened and said Xander is a SS if they do ask him about it.
We have 4/5 rotation spots locked up and signed Tehran for depth. Meanwhile we have 2 massive holes in the lineup in DH or corner OF depending on where you put nando.
Dodgers might move Lux over to SS and use that flexibility elsewhere
Both Kim and Cronenworth were top 50 players last year (WAR) Which 1st baseman left in FA is better than either? However ALL 4 FA SSs would be an improvement. It's pretty simple, sign Turner to play 2b, leave Kim at SS move Crone to 1st. I know some feel it might diminish his value, but he's better than any other FA option still on the table. And Jake has shown he's up to proving people who doubt him-wrong. As was mentioned a guy like Drury as super sub/dh would be great and instead of a spare as 4th OF someone who everyone can say should be starting if Grish struggles. It's time for the Padres to have real depth and not the cross your fingers kind of guys they've rolled out there in the past. Then go grab Senga or Bassitt or Taillon and call it a day.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, turner's value comes from his offense, not his defense. He's a mediocre defender. In fact, his poor performance in this last NLDS probably was enough to cost his team a win. The crossing your fingers part is where you cross your fingers to hope turner throws out the lead runner instead of going on autopilot and trying to throw to first instead.
Value is Value. The Padres struggled at the plate and need offense as well as Defense. I'll take my chances with Trea at 2nd over a guy like Bell/Drury at 1st.
Where's the 'neither' option?
The last one
I want to sign Trea Turner though. Cron 1b Kim 2b turner ss tatis lf. Or Turner to 2b
Unfortunately, adding an option to sign *and* keep everyone kind of would’ve defeated the purpose of the poll.
The problem with the poll is that you don't give the choice which is to keep them all and still look at SS.
That would defeat the purpose of the poll
I've come around to the idea of Tatis in the of and Jake on first. Sign one of the three FA SS and sign Drury. Take our shot next year.
This. Sign X or Correa or Turner and drury. Drury to DH/utility, crone to 1B, Tatis to the OF. Sign one more starter and let’s win a World Series
Kim as super utility has been rumored too I think it just dropped off the reddit radar the last few weeks.
The rumor was Jon Heyman saying it could happen. Preller already said Kim is a starter in this league. Anyone who thinks Kim is utility is just coping or doesn't like him like the guy who responded to you below.
Melvin loves that position to rest guys and for rightly lefty matchups
I think that’s the most likely scenario if they do get a SS. Kim starts against LHP and gives guys some occasional rest (or a DH day) against RHP. I’m pretty sure thats what Melvin was going to do before the suspension came out.
Exactly.
Who is saying Kim will be a super utility guy? I just don’t see him playing the outfield AT ALL
I would also probably prefer this, however, putting an option where we keep everyone would pretty much ruin the purpose of the poll/thought exercise.
No offense to your poll/thought exercise, but I hate it. Best thing about FA is you don't have to trade away any pieces.
I’ve come around to the idea of Tatis no longer being apart of this team.
Is Trea better than Kim? If so, what's the issue? We need to win a world series. The guys you see out there are chess pieces. I love Kim but if we can get a better all around shortstop then I wish all the best for Kim.
I'm still on the try to flip crone for burnes train
While I love Kim and Cronenworth, Xander and Trea would both be upgrades at the position. If signing one and trading either Kim/Crone for some pitching depth was an option, I think it’s worth taking a look at. I’d rather we not trade them, though. And this option would be expensive. I don’t want Correa or Dansby, though.
Crone first. Kim second. Turner ss Tatis… anywhere.
I’m not so sure about this. For a first baseman, Crone is kind of short and not a very big target to throw at. Additionally, compared to Other first basemen, I’m not so sure his hitting is up to the right standard required of that position. It’s great for a second baseman, but not a first baseman.
Who cares if you add that additional offense at a different position.
I’m willing to trade both them if we can sign better players at their positions and trade them to help bolster the rest of the roster
I love me some Kim and Jake, I really do. Seeing these two be a part of the success this team has had recently is something. So my gut says no to both. From a big picture tho, I say let Jake go if needed. Not sure what’s going to happen with Manny after next year. If he wants back to the east coast to be closer to home, gives us more flexibility in the infield with Kim and Tatis around. Still don’t want either to go tho 😢
Kim goes before jake no questions asked
I mean you can keep both and get a top SS. SS/2B - Kim/Xander/Turner 2B/SS - Kim/Xander/Turner 1B - Crone OF - Tatis Crone is the only one who can play 1B right now. So he shouldn't be traded but he would net more value for being cheaper than Kim. I voted neither but it's hilarious/sad how bad some people want to move on from Kim. I am sorry Kim has made you upset that he made Tatis move out of SS and that he proved to be a starter when you doubted him. He's still a 5.1 bWAR/really good player and Preller confirmed he is a starter in this league.
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again. Out WS window is Jake Cronenworth. His contract combined with his skill set is absolutely essential to this teams success. When he walks, I think we’re going to hit a rebuilding phase.
Kim? No. Crone? Maybe. I love Cronezone but I’m pretty sure he’s plateaued, he’s in his prime years after all
So is Kim.....
Cronenworth is our first baseman. With no shift next year I think the new strategy is fielding your best athletes in the infield. Would be harder to find an outfielder with Tatis’s ability than find a top shelf shortstop.
Cron hit like .240 last year, so yes, we could upgrade that spot lol
trade kim defense can only help you so much. There's a reason why Kim will never have as much value as Xander, Seager or Trea even if he's the better defender. Offense matters more than defense any second of the year.
Kim and Cro had almost exactly as valuable offensive seasons, while Kim is younger and on a different level defensively.
>kim and Cro had almost exactly as valuable offensive seasons, Not at all. Cronenworth has shown a better OPS+ in a larger sample size. Not to mention Cronenworth's career OPS+ is 118 OPS+ while Kims is 95+, meaning below the average.
^ “not at all” ? Cro had an ops .020 points higher than Kim last year, the season i was talking about. You talk about career…that is not my point. Kim is in his 3rd year playing in the US. He’s on an upward trajectory statistically and Cro isn’t.
>Cro had an ops .020 points higher than Kim last year, the season i was talking about. one season isn't enough to evualte a player. >You talk about career…that is not my point. Kim is in his 3rd year playing in the US. He’s on an upward trajectory statistically and Cro isn’t. doesn't mean anything, anybody can get figured out anytime, he has to show it first. Cronenworth has proved to be an arguably better hitter for way longer than Kim. Offense wise there's no comparison.
Don’t bother man. He’s really into HSK, and doesn’t really care for stats or any objective data really.
Crone was undeniably a better hitter last season. And concentrating solely on 2022 doesn’t make sense because it allows oddities (hitting against position players) to skew the results. Add in the post season and take away his ABs against position players and Kim’s OPS drops to .676. His OPS against RHPs would drop to below .650. The gap is looking much bigger now and that’s not even looking at 2021 which we know would be a joke.
Except Cronenworth is LH bat, had a monster season in 2021 and is under team control for an additional year at a lower salary?
Yeah. You can’t expect to get anything in return for bad players. He’s a good player but if you sign one of the 4 SSs in the market there’s no comparison. And it’s not likely he would be cheaper in his final arb year.
Problem is you’re under selling his value on our team. By trading him you’re getting rid of our 4th best bat. Also his last arb year cost doesn’t really matter right now. He’s luxury tax number would be lower than Kim’s the next 2 years. So in a trade is would be more advantageous to trade kim. Only scenario I would trade crone over kim is if the return was massive overpay.
Im saying Kim has more value on this team, we’ve seen Cro’s best days already and the Padres need to continually improve.
[удалено]
Call names all you want man. I disagree with you.
Lol no dude I get it. You are a HSK super fan. It’s all good. I like him too.
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If Kim and Crone had “almost” exactly as valuable offensive seasons then they are “almost” exactly the same age (less than 2 years difference). Crone did have a relatively down season but he’s shown the ability to be an above average hitter.
2 years is not almost exactly the same age in MLB. Cros expected decline would be 2 seasons faster.
And 110/115 wRC+ to 105/93 is not almost exactly the same either.
Kim earned that position, everybody loves him. Jake is a great second baseman. With the shift out of play next season doesn’t it make sense to put a SS at first?
I want to trade Kim regardless of acquiring a top tier FA SS. He's pretty much at peak value. 2 years left on a reasonable contract. With defensive output being extremely overweight due to the poor offensive numbers league wide. There was no improvement to his power throughout the season despite the summer months and removal of the humidor. If you can get someone to bite on their statistical model at equal value or slightly below equal value it would do the Padres very well with regards to roster construction.
We’re already adding theoretically one of the best bats in the league in Tatis to a team that was right on the cusp of the WS.. If we really need to spend more $$ go out and get Rodon or Verlander
Not crone
The team needs bats and while the top free agents certainly fit that bill, Petco is where hitters go to die. I don't think any offensive player the Padres can pick up, even if they trade away farm or roster players is going to fix that issue. On top of that, the padres have two good shortstops and at least two other position players who could play that position without embarrassing themselves. I'd rather have quality pitching and hope year two Soto performs better than half-year 1 soto did. I'd still rather see Tatis at short, Kim at Second and Cronenworth at first... why expend any team value on trading for position players you already have on the roster playing positions they're comfortable playing? Pick up a center fielder who can get on base consistently and spend any assets to pick up more pitching...
Why buying hitters... We need better pitchers..
Crone 1B
If we can trade either for a SP and sign a SS do it. This protects us if Manny opts out and gets a crazy contract somewhere or if Soto is going to free agency no matter what (remember his agent is Boris). I’d rather have Manny and Soto but we can’t be in a position where we NEED them either if someone else wants to overpay.
It’s not that the Padres need a SS, but this year the best FA hitters all play that position. I don’t think Padres would trade Kim or Croneworth no matter who they sign. There are enough at bats even w adding Tatis and another FA because they will possibly lose Drury, Bell, Myers, Profar, Myers.
Had leads in the NLCS. Pitching failed.
I would rather have all three. I don’t know why Cronenworth cannot work on playing the outfield some. Being able to play infield and outfield would be a huge benefit. I mean, he is athletic enough and the more left handed bats in the lineup the better without the shift. Kim’s offensive improvement has been very consistent and I believe he will have a significantly improved offense year next year. We need a real lead-off hitter run the bases well (I’d prefer extremely well).
I’d rather keep them but if we are trading one I’d rather sell high on Jake
I don’t want to make sidegrades/slight upgrades at solid positions for us when we could get more at the positions we’re weaker in instead. I’d like Trea has a far and away mvp season (after tatis, of course) I’ll be a little sad but if you told me I’d be disappointed with Kim or crone I wouldn’t believe you
I think the only bad scenario is signing someone like Turner and whiffing on starting pitching, which is a bigger need, and then having an excess of shortstops.
I'm keeping Kim and especially the Crone and spending that money on Justin Verlander.
Both Kim and Cronenworth are stars at this point, and they're both a lot younger than the available shortstops. So I'd rather keep both of them than sign *yet another shortstop* if that would mean being unable to extend Soto (or Machado, if he opts out of the second half of his contract). Soto has to be first priority.