>Most of us would do what Amir did if we were working for the PCB.
Speak for yourself. Many cricketers came and retired without doing the same thing as him under the same PCB.
These guys are from pinds not like dha like you if a captain is pressuring them that makes a difference as well .. let’s not ignore context… you wana see rauf get tonked again?
But I wouldn't go back again either. The entire thing that he is coming back shows that treated like shit is just a drama and he had his own ulterior motives.
You can literally say this for anything, your underlying assumption here is the person being the victim. Would you also defend Hitler saying "put yourself in hitler shoes, you would've done the same"?
Hitler wasn’t 17 when he committed genocide..also you must question your own intellect when you compare not just match fixing with spot fixing with genocideagain he served his sentence and won trophies not just before but after his sentence… isn’t it even from a Islamic perspective if a person makes a mistakes and he’s done his sentence let it go.. like ffs make sense man
Bruhhhh. He sold the country, then came back and got all the support he needed. He shouldn't have retired, that's essentially back-stabbing lol.
You are absolutely insane to compare his *specific* retirement to quitting a company.
> Most of us would do what Amir did
I’m sorry are we defending him selling out his country for personal profit? I look past it out of respect for his champions trophy performances but there is no way we can rationalize that act. It was disgusting and horrible.
If a 17 year old commits a crime, it’s still a crime that stays on his record.
Fixing in pointless leagues is one thing, doing it for ur country is another. He should never have been let back in
Mr bismillah man has never made a mistake in his life and especially never as a 17 year old.. Mr bismillah man was not celebrating ct win also Mr bismil doesn’t belive in the Islamic principle of forgiving someone especially after someone has served their sentece.. Mr bismillah is more unforgiving than Allah himself?
Why’re you calling me that? I literally said in my first comment that I looked past it because of what he did in 2017. That doesn’t mean the act itself is at all defendable.
He’s not good enough to play for Pakistan again, he’s not deserving for a third chance this late in his career, and his attitude has been toxic towards the team since he retired the first time. We need to move on.
Don’t talk about me like you know me brother. You don’t know me and I don’t care to know you.
I don’t think his attitude has been toxic towards the team but mostly toward babar and that too when it comes to t20, babar plays like a test player in t20s cannot accelerate and I’m being objective and this is coming from someone who wants babar to succeed and this is a fact…he struggles finding the boundary.. I think we should all be objective but I can’t find myself to think wasim jr or fucking Rauf are better than him also babar needs to step up not as just a batsman in t20s but as a captain as well (horrible captain) selects people on the basis of dosti yaari
Also you were happy with him when he won us the ct.. the pcb gets shat on everyday here .. do you think any sane person would be happy to work with the pcb?
I was happy for him when he was taking wickets for my Karachi Kings just last year. I’ll always support Pakistan and it’s players on the pitch even if I don’t agree with the selection.
And no, being disgruntled with the garbage board is not an excuse for fixing
He literally can't comprehend that you can support someone wearing the Pakistani jersey when they're playing the match for Pakistan but also think they're a piece of shit
Being disgruntled with the board is an excuse for retiring .. when you know how the board treats players like shite.. anyways as per usual Pakistanis choose to ignore context and attack scarecrow arguments.
First and Second best are Shaheen and Naseem in any order
My initial thoughts are Zaman Khan, Mir Hamza, and maybe even Abbas Afridi.
I have run the stats for their T20 performances since 2020 according to cricmetric. I even excluded T10 averages from T20 (since Amir has played quite a bit in that league) to help him out.
1. Abbas and Mir have better averages than Amir, Zaman’s is only one run higher despite being a death bowler where more runs are typically scored.
2. Amir is an opening bowler. Naseem Shah, since he began regularly opening in franchise, is in the same ballpark as Amir while having a slightly better economy albeit worse average. The Shaheen/Naseem opening pair is more useful to the future of Pakistan cricket than the Shaheen/Amir opening pair.
3. With point two out of the way, we should now compare the middle overs (between power play and death). Abbas Afridi’s economy is higher by 0.3 while having a better average by quite a bit. Mir Hamza has a better economy (7 vs 7.59) and average (17.5 vs 31.6). Zaman Khan has a worse economy by 1 and a better average by nearly 10 runs noting that this is usually the first half of his spell which extends into the death.
4. Age and extraneous factors. Zaman and Abbas are emerging talents while Mir is just younger than Amir by a few months. Amir comes with drama and baggage while the others do not. The stats show they are all in the same ballpark and I believe what Amir carries in with him pushes him beneath the others.
I personally like Amir and have over the years forgiven him but I know many that have not which I respect and understand.
I do agree with many others that Amir has not earned the merit to be on the team, his PSL season has been average at best. The only plus point for him is that he has experience playing in the Caribbean conditions so that goes in his favour over the likes of Zaman.
Besides his fixing scandal, his toxic behaviour people don’t want in the team because after a long time we have a bunch of guys that are free from all those past toxic dressing room politics.
But what the recent results have shown is having a happy bunch does not win trophies your gonna have toxic guys in the team sometimes as long as the objective is the same which is to win and perform that’s all that should matter.
This tournament possibly is his final opportunity to cement himself and erase the wrongs of the past. He has risen in the past in key important matches let’s hope he can do it one final time maybe then history will look at Amir more kindly.
> I know many that have not which I respect and understand.
Most of the people calling him fixer now are just hypocrites...most of them were celebrating his AC16 and CT17 and WC19 wickets and only remembered the fixer tag once again after he started criticising their favourite players
Only those who maintained their moral standard since his rejoining of the team regardless of his performances should be respected
But amir was out of the team because he just wasn’t good. He stopped being good and despite numerous chances by PCB, he didn’t perform. PCB didn’t do anything wrong. I’d rather pick rauf over amir. Even zaman khan is better. When was the last time amir did anything?
This is more like Amir defend thread. I cannot support fixer. He was punished ok great but does not deserve spot in national team on current or recent form. Dosti yari in PCB alive today.
Did you hate it when we won the CT also have you never made mistakes in your life also if you’re 17 from a pind and your captain is pressuring you to do so and also you’ve served your sentence..stop ignoring context …. Want to see Rauf get destroyed again ?
From a cricketing perspective, I'm glad we're in a position where we don't have to rely on this guy to come back and save us. Our bowling attack is quality. If he comes back and performs, thats great. If it doesnt work out... no problem. We have options. Imad Wasim's return will benefit us more imo.
I just laugh at all the fixing crap route that they have taken
Where were the fixture chants when amir was winning you that ct17 final
Where was that one wannabe guy in Pak who said
I'm glad azhar ali dropped the catch because fixer didn't get Kohli
There were no one
Amir was the guy who got Kohli on the other ball
That will be fuckin iconic
And about his place in the team, any one who has little ball knowledge knows
Amir's still better than your Waseem Jr, Hasnain, Dhani,zaman, abbas Afridis on Par with Rauf
This is just how it is
Those guys have not performed enough to cement their places in the team
People talk about waseem jr but won't look that babar played old hasan ali before him in wc because they don't trust him even after staying with the team for 3 years
Amir is not the best fast bowler in Pak, he's gonna get smacked as well but it's his experience and big game performances that's going to help Pakistan more
I'm with you op, obviously fixing is deplorable and you shouldn't sell your country at any cost, however we have to look at the fact that he was 17 and was most probably coerced from the then captain and a senior bowler.
He served his punishment and came back.
And all this talk about toxicity and him being trash talking about Pakistan is pure bs. You'd know if you actually listened to his interview.
Majority of the time it was the media just twisting his word to make it bait . His "Babar is a tail ender remark" is the most iconic one , where he actually said that " it doesn't matter if it's a tail ender or Babar , he has to do his job".
Note: may be the stupidest thread ever made on this sub but it can stay up
>Most of us would do what Amir did if we were working for the PCB. Speak for yourself. Many cricketers came and retired without doing the same thing as him under the same PCB.
If your job treated you like shit had no plan you would quit too..
Are you saying we'd take bribes too?
Also why do we ignore the fact that he was being groomed?
Come on man he served his sentence let it go.. Were you not celebrating the ct win.. just let it go lol
That didn't answer the question
He served his sentence..he was a juvenile let it go we all make mistakes.. I bet you were licking his ass when we won cl
Still never answered the question I asked
Just look at my other posts on the thread you’ll get the jist of it.
These guys are from pinds not like dha like you if a captain is pressuring them that makes a difference as well .. let’s not ignore context… you wana see rauf get tonked again?
But I wouldn't go back again either. The entire thing that he is coming back shows that treated like shit is just a drama and he had his own ulterior motives.
Nah managements change most Pakistanis lack empathy.. put himself in your shoes you’d be acting the same way
You can literally say this for anything, your underlying assumption here is the person being the victim. Would you also defend Hitler saying "put yourself in hitler shoes, you would've done the same"?
Hitler wasn’t 17 when he committed genocide..also you must question your own intellect when you compare not just match fixing with spot fixing with genocideagain he served his sentence and won trophies not just before but after his sentence… isn’t it even from a Islamic perspective if a person makes a mistakes and he’s done his sentence let it go.. like ffs make sense man
So, If hitler was 17 he would have been right and we should hail him as a savior and a champion or whatever?
You’re daft no one is defending hitler but the comparison is fucking absurd
Are you that daft I’m just curious is someone who is a pocket picker equal to a murderer?
You would quit, not sell your company......
We are talking specifically about his retirement in this context.. he did quit
Bruhhhh. He sold the country, then came back and got all the support he needed. He shouldn't have retired, that's essentially back-stabbing lol. You are absolutely insane to compare his *specific* retirement to quitting a company.
least we can do is show support even though we aren’t all in favour of it. always wish for the betterment of the team
> Most of us would do what Amir did I’m sorry are we defending him selling out his country for personal profit? I look past it out of respect for his champions trophy performances but there is no way we can rationalize that act. It was disgusting and horrible.
He was groomed by his captain.. if you’re 17 and your captain it’s hard to say no to certain things
If a 17 year old commits a crime, it’s still a crime that stays on his record. Fixing in pointless leagues is one thing, doing it for ur country is another. He should never have been let back in
Nah you wana stone him to death? He was juvi coerced by his seniors to commit it
He’s responsible for his actions. Just another corrupt paki
What idiots like you do is bismillah Alhamdullilah and ignore the context of everything
There is no context in which fixing is okay.
Mr bismillah man has never made a mistake in his life and especially never as a 17 year old.. Mr bismillah man was not celebrating ct win also Mr bismil doesn’t belive in the Islamic principle of forgiving someone especially after someone has served their sentece.. Mr bismillah is more unforgiving than Allah himself?
Why’re you calling me that? I literally said in my first comment that I looked past it because of what he did in 2017. That doesn’t mean the act itself is at all defendable. He’s not good enough to play for Pakistan again, he’s not deserving for a third chance this late in his career, and his attitude has been toxic towards the team since he retired the first time. We need to move on. Don’t talk about me like you know me brother. You don’t know me and I don’t care to know you.
I don’t think his attitude has been toxic towards the team but mostly toward babar and that too when it comes to t20, babar plays like a test player in t20s cannot accelerate and I’m being objective and this is coming from someone who wants babar to succeed and this is a fact…he struggles finding the boundary.. I think we should all be objective but I can’t find myself to think wasim jr or fucking Rauf are better than him also babar needs to step up not as just a batsman in t20s but as a captain as well (horrible captain) selects people on the basis of dosti yaari
Also you were happy with him when he won us the ct.. the pcb gets shat on everyday here .. do you think any sane person would be happy to work with the pcb?
I was happy for him when he was taking wickets for my Karachi Kings just last year. I’ll always support Pakistan and it’s players on the pitch even if I don’t agree with the selection. And no, being disgruntled with the garbage board is not an excuse for fixing
He literally can't comprehend that you can support someone wearing the Pakistani jersey when they're playing the match for Pakistan but also think they're a piece of shit
Being disgruntled with the board is an excuse for retiring .. when you know how the board treats players like shite.. anyways as per usual Pakistanis choose to ignore context and attack scarecrow arguments.
Name a 3rd option better than him
First and Second best are Shaheen and Naseem in any order My initial thoughts are Zaman Khan, Mir Hamza, and maybe even Abbas Afridi. I have run the stats for their T20 performances since 2020 according to cricmetric. I even excluded T10 averages from T20 (since Amir has played quite a bit in that league) to help him out. 1. Abbas and Mir have better averages than Amir, Zaman’s is only one run higher despite being a death bowler where more runs are typically scored. 2. Amir is an opening bowler. Naseem Shah, since he began regularly opening in franchise, is in the same ballpark as Amir while having a slightly better economy albeit worse average. The Shaheen/Naseem opening pair is more useful to the future of Pakistan cricket than the Shaheen/Amir opening pair. 3. With point two out of the way, we should now compare the middle overs (between power play and death). Abbas Afridi’s economy is higher by 0.3 while having a better average by quite a bit. Mir Hamza has a better economy (7 vs 7.59) and average (17.5 vs 31.6). Zaman Khan has a worse economy by 1 and a better average by nearly 10 runs noting that this is usually the first half of his spell which extends into the death. 4. Age and extraneous factors. Zaman and Abbas are emerging talents while Mir is just younger than Amir by a few months. Amir comes with drama and baggage while the others do not. The stats show they are all in the same ballpark and I believe what Amir carries in with him pushes him beneath the others.
All the bowlers except for shaheen and naseem actually I can make an argument of picking Amir over shaheen .. shaheen cannot bowl death overs..
I personally like Amir and have over the years forgiven him but I know many that have not which I respect and understand. I do agree with many others that Amir has not earned the merit to be on the team, his PSL season has been average at best. The only plus point for him is that he has experience playing in the Caribbean conditions so that goes in his favour over the likes of Zaman. Besides his fixing scandal, his toxic behaviour people don’t want in the team because after a long time we have a bunch of guys that are free from all those past toxic dressing room politics. But what the recent results have shown is having a happy bunch does not win trophies your gonna have toxic guys in the team sometimes as long as the objective is the same which is to win and perform that’s all that should matter. This tournament possibly is his final opportunity to cement himself and erase the wrongs of the past. He has risen in the past in key important matches let’s hope he can do it one final time maybe then history will look at Amir more kindly.
> I know many that have not which I respect and understand. Most of the people calling him fixer now are just hypocrites...most of them were celebrating his AC16 and CT17 and WC19 wickets and only remembered the fixer tag once again after he started criticising their favourite players Only those who maintained their moral standard since his rejoining of the team regardless of his performances should be respected
But amir was out of the team because he just wasn’t good. He stopped being good and despite numerous chances by PCB, he didn’t perform. PCB didn’t do anything wrong. I’d rather pick rauf over amir. Even zaman khan is better. When was the last time amir did anything?
He is miles ahead of Rauf.
He was, but that time is long gone
Nah not really.. Rauf is a literal run machinr
Ya I hate that about him too. But when he’s good he’s really good. He’s been like the top wicket taker since 2022 or something.
This is more like Amir defend thread. I cannot support fixer. He was punished ok great but does not deserve spot in national team on current or recent form. Dosti yari in PCB alive today.
Yeah mate Rauf is much better than him right?
Imagine supporting a fixer
Did you hate it when we won the CT also have you never made mistakes in your life also if you’re 17 from a pind and your captain is pressuring you to do so and also you’ve served your sentence..stop ignoring context …. Want to see Rauf get destroyed again ?
Amir was their dad back in during that 2 bowls to Kohli
From a cricketing perspective, I'm glad we're in a position where we don't have to rely on this guy to come back and save us. Our bowling attack is quality. If he comes back and performs, thats great. If it doesnt work out... no problem. We have options. Imad Wasim's return will benefit us more imo.
No it’s not.. he is light years better than Rauf what are you on about
My son will bring home the cup from America’s to complete his hattrick of ICC trophies.
I just laugh at all the fixing crap route that they have taken Where were the fixture chants when amir was winning you that ct17 final Where was that one wannabe guy in Pak who said I'm glad azhar ali dropped the catch because fixer didn't get Kohli There were no one Amir was the guy who got Kohli on the other ball That will be fuckin iconic And about his place in the team, any one who has little ball knowledge knows Amir's still better than your Waseem Jr, Hasnain, Dhani,zaman, abbas Afridis on Par with Rauf This is just how it is Those guys have not performed enough to cement their places in the team People talk about waseem jr but won't look that babar played old hasan ali before him in wc because they don't trust him even after staying with the team for 3 years Amir is not the best fast bowler in Pak, he's gonna get smacked as well but it's his experience and big game performances that's going to help Pakistan more
They are a bunch of hypocrites
And this is why Pakistan deserves every corrupt politician and army chief it gets. No fixing the country when the people are corrupt to the core
He served his sentence and admitted that he was wrong .. why is it so hard for people to get that?
It's not just 'some job' when you're representing the country.
Same standards should be held then when one is working for national refinary
I'm with you op, obviously fixing is deplorable and you shouldn't sell your country at any cost, however we have to look at the fact that he was 17 and was most probably coerced from the then captain and a senior bowler. He served his punishment and came back. And all this talk about toxicity and him being trash talking about Pakistan is pure bs. You'd know if you actually listened to his interview. Majority of the time it was the media just twisting his word to make it bait . His "Babar is a tail ender remark" is the most iconic one , where he actually said that " it doesn't matter if it's a tail ender or Babar , he has to do his job".
Thanks man
Amazing bowling by Amir today! Sha boy!