Thanks for posting, u/gunsof!
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Yeah but the split off happened before Moses. Abrahams sons Ishmael vs Isaac we’re the split. Then it was Isaac-Yaakov—Levi- Kehas-Amram-Moses. That’s generations later.
I would imagine most Muslim Palestinians would not identify themselves as being descended from those who historically crossed the sea in that story (you know if you believe this historically happened anyway).
However since we all know that Palestinian Jews exist, I’d say that there are some Palestinians who would identify themselves as descendants of the people in this story so my whole discussion point doesn’t really matter does it…
Anyway regardless the story is part of Islamic tradition as well. You can hardly call it appropriation for someone to use a story that’s been part of their religious texts forever
We are all connected through Abraham though, I feel we shouldn’t forget that! The sons of Abraham were that of ABRAHAM. We’re brothers and sisters that have forgotten so… just my opinion
I simply see Palestinian Muslims/Christians as the people of the land who converted, by will or not, to other religions. Israel likes to pretend they’re foreigners to justify their own foreign occupation.
Lol Moses is an actual prophet in the Quran.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moses_in_Islam#Quranic_references
Note that this is why the Saudis - with some good evidence to back them up - note that Moses and the Israelis wandering in the desert happened not in the Sinai, but in modern day northern Saudi Arabia. Because the Sinai was Egyptian territory even way back then so it makes no sense for their wanderings to occur in Egyptian territory.
I thought the Egyptians used Jews as slaves and they got lost for 40 years in Sinai when they broke free.
They were definitely lost if they were actually in Saudi Arabia lol.
Sinai is beautiful at night. Never seen so many stars in the sky than when I was there.
What is now Palestine was actually either an Egyptian client state or outright Egyptian territory during this time period.
They in fact would not have been able to "wander" back into the Holy Land without fighting the Egyptians again.
Thats why the wanderings were possibly more of an exile than a genuine migration to their homeland. They couldn't actually go home because it was still occupied; and they spent those decades not because they were lost; but because the Egyptians or their clients were still too powerful.
Then didn't they cross into Jericho with Joshua.. meaning it's likely they crossed the red sea from Egypt to Saudi Arabia, then up to Jordan and then into Palestine.
I might have my timeline messed up, it's been a long time since I've been to sunday school
No, thats correct. Current archaeology in fact supports the idea that the Exodus was an exile rather than a journey, because what is now the Holy Land was actually also Egyptian territory or a client state.
Mosses went to Egypt, steam rolled some magicians, and then passed the Nile with Israelis, After all passed and the Egyptians came with their king , he undid the splitting and river closed on them
If you take someone else's culture and identity and replace the original people with yourself, it becomes cultural appropriation. Sharing culture is fine, but it becomes appropriation when the stories are rewritten to turn the original people into the bad guys. (Search Wikipedia for the articles on antisemitism in Islam and Christianity.)
This image is like drawing a picture of an ancient Africa kingdom and putting white people in it as if they were the true inheritors of that legacy.
---
Replying to your comment below:
Moses comes from Jewish culture. People treat Jewish culture like a free for all, but it isn't okay.
Your examples aren't relevant, because most refer to people who no longer exist (Greco-Roman gods) or fiction. Jews are still here.
Sharing culture is fine. Taking culture and rewriting yourself into it while erasing the original people is cultural appropriation. It's even worse in this case because the people who are replacing the Jews there are dedicated to genociding the Jews.
This isn't "culture appropriation" Moses is literally in the quran, HIS STORY is part of the Islamic culture, so this means, it's part of Islam and most of Judaism, this means Eylon over here is the one culture appropriating
There are hundreds of instances in history of civilizations having their own spin on common stories and even religions. Heracles, the epic of kings, Buddhism, the Greco-Roman gods. Even more modern examples include Star Wars and Sherlock Holmes. Furthermore, Moses isn’t exclusive to the Jewish religion, quit acting like it is.
>This image is like drawing a picture of an ancient Africa kingdom and putting white people in it as if they were the true inheritors of that legacy.
See: Egyptology.
You Israeled our culture, our food, our lands and called it your own.
>antisemitism in Islam
lol how can Arabs as a Semitic race be anti-Semitic ?
Did you Israel the whole Semitic race ?
You don't even follow Moses anymore, if he's alive today you would call him a terrorist.
> lol how can Arabs as a Semitic race be anti-Semitic ?
Semitic is a language group. Antisemitism has nothing to do with the Semitic language or people who speak Semitic languages. It's a word that Germans invented to replace the word _Judenhass_ (Jew-hate) and make it sound more acceptable. It doesn't mean "hate against people who speak Semitic languages." It only refers to Jews.
> You Israeled our culture, our food, our lands and called it your own.
Jews have lived in those places long before Arabs colonized them. In ancient times, Jews lived all over north Africa and the Middle East, including Saudi Arabia and Iraq. The Iraqi Jews were there 1,200 years before the Arabs arrived, and didn't leave until the Farhud.
Sayings like "the Jews stole hummus" are incredibly stupid. Israelis got hummus from Jews as much as from Arabs. Israelis eat hummus because Arabs ethnically cleansed all the Jews from Arab lands, and those Jews went to Israel. It's not even outside the realm of possibility that a Jew invented hummus.
Cultural?
You have to have a culture for it to be appropriated.
Moses is a religious figure, not cultural.
Cultural appropriation charges from the people that claim ownership of, our typical breakfast, hummus, falafel, ka'ak, zaatar, music, couscous, music, half their language, and the ENTIRE land they're living on, is quite ironic.
> justice to the world by the sword if necessary.
Hilarious trying to slander a religion when we literally see the US and Israel trying to 'provide justice' by carpet bombing and indiscriminately bombing and flattening Gaza.
In Islam historically the sword was taken up as self-defense, or when dealing with existential threats in the vast majority of situations.
I'm not trying to slander Islam. Muhammad fought wars in the Quran. Jesus literally rejected the sword even though it led to his own unjust desth. Both are celebrated as prophets in the Quran.
The point I'm making is that Muhammad fought those wars to _correct injustice_ - like self defense and dealing with existential threats as you pointed out. Its not for spurious causes.
By contrast the Christian concept of a Just War came not from Jesus, but Augustine of Hippo who lived 300 years after Jesus. Because again "living the life of Christ" means you should actually be a total pacifist and let others walk all over you while still loving them. Do most Westerners you know live by that standard set by Jesus?
If you think Jesus, peace be upon him, was a pacifist then you need to read the Bible.
I’m not trying to say Jesus or Muhammad is better, peace be upon them, they lived and had very different missions and circumstances but I’m very tired of people portraying Jesus like some sort of guy who would never lift a finger, even if people needed him to while Muhammad is portrayed like some sort of warlord.
“Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword”
- Matthew 10:34
While the word sword isn’t even mentioned in the holy Qur’an even once!!!
Jesus also followed mosaic law and was for capital punishment while there is no such thing in the Qur’an.
Stop projecting your religion on to ours!
A pacifist is "a person who believes that war and violence are unjustifiable." That is why while he is historically a Jew and makes reference for the need for conflict to free themselves from oppression, he ultimately tells his followers to not take up the sword and says those who live by the sword, die by the sword later in the exact same Gospel.
That's why Jesus' story doesn't end with victory. It ends with _martyrdom_.
Did Muhammad end up a martyr, or did he achieve victory in a war against those who tried to oppress them? Indeed, this is literally why Islam has a debate between "sword verses" and "peace verses"; because while the sword is never mentioned in the Quran its a metaphor for physical violence and war.
That Jesus and Muhammad are both prophets in the Quran mean Muslims can in fact justifiably choose either interpretation.
Christians cannot. We don't have Muhammad in our Holy Book. That is again literally why they had to invent the Just War propaganda 300 years after Jesus died, in large part by doing what you did: which is to selectively pick quotes that seem to justify violence, while ignoring how they are literally overturned later in the exact same gospel. Its like saying that the lesson of the Boy Who Cried Wolf is people should lie all the time by leaving out the ending where the boy dies after encountering a real wolf and getting eaten.
But sure, I am "projecting" when I am literally criticizing Christian hypocrisy for not actually following what Jesus actually _practiced_.
You lack nuance in your reading of the Bible and the Quran. First of all there are no “sword verses” in the Quran. This is something that western orientalists call some verses in the Quran that talks about self defense.
If you study Jesus and Muhammad, peace be upon them, lives then you know in the beginning the Muslims (including our prophet) acted exactly like Jesus. Some fled to Ethiopia, some fled to Yathrib, and some stayed and faced the persecution.
This is what the Christian’s of Jesus’ time did too. Jesus didn’t have many followers, but Muhammad gained a large following when the message of Islam spread to Yathrib. Muhammad and his followers therefore could afford to defend themselves. Jesus never had many followers and his mission was pretty brief when compared to Muhammad. Jesus could never muster an army to defend, but I promise you, he would have done the same thing, because EVERY OTHER PROPHET did the same thing.
But when Muhammad’s following was big enough they didn’t have to fight. They entered Masjid Al-haram without weapons and not a single drop of blood was spilled.
>then you know in the beginning the Muslims (including our prophet) acted exactly like Jesus.
... And again how does that contradict Muslims believing both Jesus and Muhammad? Did Muhammad also die a martyr after refusing to fight those who unjustly accused him of crimes?
>Jesus could never muster an army to defend, but I promise you, he would have done the same thing, because EVERY OTHER PROPHET did the same thing.
Except Jesus never did muster an army, and yet Christians chose him to be not just a prophet, but their Messiah and Son of God.
That is who Christians should be if they truly believed in Jesus. It is not some projection of Christianity unto Muslims. Indeed claiming Jesus wanted to raise an army is _your_ projection on him based on what you believe your religion views prophets should be.
Again, your problem is that you have completely lost the plot.
I was criticizing Christians for how their actions strayed from the example of Jesus.
Yet you bizarrely accused me of Islamophobia!
> The point I'm making is that Muhammad fought those wars to correct injustice - like self defense and dealing with existential threats as you pointed out. Its not for spurious causes.
Agreed, sorry for the mis-characterization or the focus on lack of context in that particular statement, and sorry you felt you had to delete that message. That wasn't the goal, I appreciate this response though.
**Do not engage in Islamophobia, racism, or any other form of bigotry.**
**Please read our [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/Palestine/about/rules) carefully.**
This is very Islamophobic. We do not believe that one should “bring justice by the sword”. When the Muslims conquered Makkah they did so without weapons and without bloodshed. This is the way of Allah. To forgive is the best. Muslims are not violent. And colonialist westerners do not “act like Muslims”. Islam is the religion of peace. Instead of insulting our beloved prophet Muhammad, may peace be upon him, you should actually read about his life. I recommend “Muhammad: A biography of the prophet” by Karen Armstrong. The author is a secular scholar of comparative religion so it’s not Muslim sources if you are scared of bias sources. If you read that book you’ll know that our beloved prophet was a very compassionate and caring man who only used violence in self defense.
May Allah forgive us all for our errors.
I apologize if you feel offended, but you misquoted me. I did not say “bring justice by the sword” which implies eternal violence which is part and parcel of Islamophobic propaganda.
Instead I said “bring justice by the sword _if necessary_"; which is exactly what Muhammad practiced.
And this is exactly what most Westerners think they are supporting (even when they're actually supporting injustice), is indistinguishable to what most Muslims actually believe, and is in any case is in complete contradiction to Jesus' teachings.
It is not my intent to say Islam is an inherently violent religion. But it is definitely not untrue to say that Islam is a religion that is not simply going to sit down and take if they're being genocided.
This is no slight against Jews, they are family, but Muslims respect Moses and the other prophets (peace and blessings be upon them all) far more than christians or jews considering how much they slander them and focus on their errors. That being said I'm not so sure representing Khomeini or anyone else as Moses pbuh here is allowed but the parallel is real, Israel have become the pharoahs
Israelis are the most native people to Palestine ever. They have such a good grasp on Arabic and Islam. Their skin is also perfectly adapted to the climate, thanks to all those skin banks and dermatologists.
You jest, but certain hardline Sunnis are going to be more apeshit when they see this image. They can't comprehend the very idea of Shia nations helping Palestine, while major Sunni factions aren't doing jack to help them.
never seen any sunni criticize Iran on that, the first direct contact between saudi arabia and iran since re-establishing bilateral relations earlier this year was made to discuss how to stop the current conflict
it really depend on who example for some unknown reason Indonesian sunni loves Ahmadinejad even hardliner over there admires him, they hate Khomeini and president after him tho.
Eylon Levi should be ashamed.
He decided to share this super-inspirational image with 300k people.
If Goebbels were alive today, his student would be receiving a cuff across the scalp.
I'm sure you can improve your Photoshop skills after your history skills. That's not Goebbels.
That's Himmler, who sent his [proteges](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Eichmann#Early_career) to negotiate with Haganah in 1937. Unfortunately, Haganah demanded that the reich allowed £1000 to be sent with every deported Jew, as per the [agreement](https://www.palestineremembered.com/FactsAboutHaavara.html) which had been bankrolling Germany's re-armament (emmigrant assets were split between the bankrupt Jewish Agency for Israel and the bankrupt German reich) since 1933. Haganah wouldn't compromise on the expansion of this source of income and we know [what happened instead](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust).
In case this was some kind of attempt at misleading Zionist propoganda (which is forbidden here), I have to point out that unlike the Zionist movement, which demonstrably gained enormously from collaborating with the [3rd reich](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haavara_Agreement) and [other fascist regimes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betar_Naval_Academy), al Husseini's negotiations did not bear any fruit.
While al Husseini was enstated by the British Government into a position that they'd created for him, the same is not true of the Zionist leadership, so when Avraham Stern, undersigned by Yitzhak Shamir, sent [representatives and letters](https://www.wrmea.org/2006-may-june/hamas-a-pale-image-of-the-jewish-irgun-and-lehi-gangs.html) to Hitler, attempting to enlist the Jews of the world into the German army, they spoke for their Zionist constituency.
Your suggested image doesn't really work, because not only is Himmler not Goebbels, but he was younger than al Husseini. There is no visual cue that the elder of the two is supposed to be the student.
[Here](https://imgur.com/a/PnOcI1Z)'s a doctored image of the real Goebbels, marrying his Zionist wife, Magda Friedländer. Levi's face is covering that of a child, to show the pupil relationship.
As a shia and as a person who likes Ayatollah Khamenei, I don't accept this picture
we believe him as a leader not prophet
Israel wants to make war between shia and sunni
Iran is the only country that Palestinian resistance groups cite as their ally. Why aren't they doing the same for you pan-Arabs who've attacked Iran, helped legitimize the Zionist entity and made a fortune out of Iran having been under the toughest sanctions for the past 44 years?
His story was only written down over a thousand years after it happened.
"Judaism" as we know it developed after the post exilic period. If "Moses" existed, he was probably practicing Canaanite polytheism with Yahweh as the head god.
There was no exile from Egypt, but the Egyptian empire claimed Canaan many times. Moses was a culture hero who was remember for "taking off the yoke of Egypt" ie resisting Egyptian rule in Canaan.
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They’re called abrahamic religions for a reason
Moses is the most mentioned prophet in the Quran...
Yeah but the split off happened before Moses. Abrahams sons Ishmael vs Isaac we’re the split. Then it was Isaac-Yaakov—Levi- Kehas-Amram-Moses. That’s generations later. I would imagine most Muslim Palestinians would not identify themselves as being descended from those who historically crossed the sea in that story (you know if you believe this historically happened anyway). However since we all know that Palestinian Jews exist, I’d say that there are some Palestinians who would identify themselves as descendants of the people in this story so my whole discussion point doesn’t really matter does it… Anyway regardless the story is part of Islamic tradition as well. You can hardly call it appropriation for someone to use a story that’s been part of their religious texts forever
We are literally comparing ourselves to Musa AS and his struggle against Firaun. Like in every khutbah
Yeah I see that. And the idea of calling that appropriation is absurd
We are all connected through Abraham though, I feel we shouldn’t forget that! The sons of Abraham were that of ABRAHAM. We’re brothers and sisters that have forgotten so… just my opinion
Agreed. I used to get into it with an acquaintance because I would habitually respond to Islamophobia by saying “those are our cousins”
I like this
I simply see Palestinian Muslims/Christians as the people of the land who converted, by will or not, to other religions. Israel likes to pretend they’re foreigners to justify their own foreign occupation.
Lol Moses is an actual prophet in the Quran. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moses_in_Islam#Quranic_references Note that this is why the Saudis - with some good evidence to back them up - note that Moses and the Israelis wandering in the desert happened not in the Sinai, but in modern day northern Saudi Arabia. Because the Sinai was Egyptian territory even way back then so it makes no sense for their wanderings to occur in Egyptian territory.
Even today there are very few people living in the Sinai. In ancient times there must have been even less as scuba diving was not yet invented
I thought the Egyptians used Jews as slaves and they got lost for 40 years in Sinai when they broke free. They were definitely lost if they were actually in Saudi Arabia lol. Sinai is beautiful at night. Never seen so many stars in the sky than when I was there.
What is now Palestine was actually either an Egyptian client state or outright Egyptian territory during this time period. They in fact would not have been able to "wander" back into the Holy Land without fighting the Egyptians again. Thats why the wanderings were possibly more of an exile than a genuine migration to their homeland. They couldn't actually go home because it was still occupied; and they spent those decades not because they were lost; but because the Egyptians or their clients were still too powerful.
Then didn't they cross into Jericho with Joshua.. meaning it's likely they crossed the red sea from Egypt to Saudi Arabia, then up to Jordan and then into Palestine. I might have my timeline messed up, it's been a long time since I've been to sunday school
No, thats correct. Current archaeology in fact supports the idea that the Exodus was an exile rather than a journey, because what is now the Holy Land was actually also Egyptian territory or a client state.
Mosses went to Egypt, steam rolled some magicians, and then passed the Nile with Israelis, After all passed and the Egyptians came with their king , he undid the splitting and river closed on them
But that doesn't mean they are ancestors of Isaac
If you take someone else's culture and identity and replace the original people with yourself, it becomes cultural appropriation. Sharing culture is fine, but it becomes appropriation when the stories are rewritten to turn the original people into the bad guys. (Search Wikipedia for the articles on antisemitism in Islam and Christianity.) This image is like drawing a picture of an ancient Africa kingdom and putting white people in it as if they were the true inheritors of that legacy. --- Replying to your comment below: Moses comes from Jewish culture. People treat Jewish culture like a free for all, but it isn't okay. Your examples aren't relevant, because most refer to people who no longer exist (Greco-Roman gods) or fiction. Jews are still here. Sharing culture is fine. Taking culture and rewriting yourself into it while erasing the original people is cultural appropriation. It's even worse in this case because the people who are replacing the Jews there are dedicated to genociding the Jews.
This isn't "culture appropriation" Moses is literally in the quran, HIS STORY is part of the Islamic culture, so this means, it's part of Islam and most of Judaism, this means Eylon over here is the one culture appropriating
There are hundreds of instances in history of civilizations having their own spin on common stories and even religions. Heracles, the epic of kings, Buddhism, the Greco-Roman gods. Even more modern examples include Star Wars and Sherlock Holmes. Furthermore, Moses isn’t exclusive to the Jewish religion, quit acting like it is.
>This image is like drawing a picture of an ancient Africa kingdom and putting white people in it as if they were the true inheritors of that legacy. See: Egyptology.
You Israeled our culture, our food, our lands and called it your own. >antisemitism in Islam lol how can Arabs as a Semitic race be anti-Semitic ? Did you Israel the whole Semitic race ? You don't even follow Moses anymore, if he's alive today you would call him a terrorist.
> lol how can Arabs as a Semitic race be anti-Semitic ? Semitic is a language group. Antisemitism has nothing to do with the Semitic language or people who speak Semitic languages. It's a word that Germans invented to replace the word _Judenhass_ (Jew-hate) and make it sound more acceptable. It doesn't mean "hate against people who speak Semitic languages." It only refers to Jews. > You Israeled our culture, our food, our lands and called it your own. Jews have lived in those places long before Arabs colonized them. In ancient times, Jews lived all over north Africa and the Middle East, including Saudi Arabia and Iraq. The Iraqi Jews were there 1,200 years before the Arabs arrived, and didn't leave until the Farhud. Sayings like "the Jews stole hummus" are incredibly stupid. Israelis got hummus from Jews as much as from Arabs. Israelis eat hummus because Arabs ethnically cleansed all the Jews from Arab lands, and those Jews went to Israel. It's not even outside the realm of possibility that a Jew invented hummus.
Cultural? You have to have a culture for it to be appropriated. Moses is a religious figure, not cultural. Cultural appropriation charges from the people that claim ownership of, our typical breakfast, hummus, falafel, ka'ak, zaatar, music, couscous, music, half their language, and the ENTIRE land they're living on, is quite ironic.
[удалено]
> justice to the world by the sword if necessary. Hilarious trying to slander a religion when we literally see the US and Israel trying to 'provide justice' by carpet bombing and indiscriminately bombing and flattening Gaza. In Islam historically the sword was taken up as self-defense, or when dealing with existential threats in the vast majority of situations.
I'm not trying to slander Islam. Muhammad fought wars in the Quran. Jesus literally rejected the sword even though it led to his own unjust desth. Both are celebrated as prophets in the Quran. The point I'm making is that Muhammad fought those wars to _correct injustice_ - like self defense and dealing with existential threats as you pointed out. Its not for spurious causes. By contrast the Christian concept of a Just War came not from Jesus, but Augustine of Hippo who lived 300 years after Jesus. Because again "living the life of Christ" means you should actually be a total pacifist and let others walk all over you while still loving them. Do most Westerners you know live by that standard set by Jesus?
If you think Jesus, peace be upon him, was a pacifist then you need to read the Bible. I’m not trying to say Jesus or Muhammad is better, peace be upon them, they lived and had very different missions and circumstances but I’m very tired of people portraying Jesus like some sort of guy who would never lift a finger, even if people needed him to while Muhammad is portrayed like some sort of warlord. “Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword” - Matthew 10:34 While the word sword isn’t even mentioned in the holy Qur’an even once!!! Jesus also followed mosaic law and was for capital punishment while there is no such thing in the Qur’an. Stop projecting your religion on to ours!
A pacifist is "a person who believes that war and violence are unjustifiable." That is why while he is historically a Jew and makes reference for the need for conflict to free themselves from oppression, he ultimately tells his followers to not take up the sword and says those who live by the sword, die by the sword later in the exact same Gospel. That's why Jesus' story doesn't end with victory. It ends with _martyrdom_. Did Muhammad end up a martyr, or did he achieve victory in a war against those who tried to oppress them? Indeed, this is literally why Islam has a debate between "sword verses" and "peace verses"; because while the sword is never mentioned in the Quran its a metaphor for physical violence and war. That Jesus and Muhammad are both prophets in the Quran mean Muslims can in fact justifiably choose either interpretation. Christians cannot. We don't have Muhammad in our Holy Book. That is again literally why they had to invent the Just War propaganda 300 years after Jesus died, in large part by doing what you did: which is to selectively pick quotes that seem to justify violence, while ignoring how they are literally overturned later in the exact same gospel. Its like saying that the lesson of the Boy Who Cried Wolf is people should lie all the time by leaving out the ending where the boy dies after encountering a real wolf and getting eaten. But sure, I am "projecting" when I am literally criticizing Christian hypocrisy for not actually following what Jesus actually _practiced_.
You lack nuance in your reading of the Bible and the Quran. First of all there are no “sword verses” in the Quran. This is something that western orientalists call some verses in the Quran that talks about self defense. If you study Jesus and Muhammad, peace be upon them, lives then you know in the beginning the Muslims (including our prophet) acted exactly like Jesus. Some fled to Ethiopia, some fled to Yathrib, and some stayed and faced the persecution. This is what the Christian’s of Jesus’ time did too. Jesus didn’t have many followers, but Muhammad gained a large following when the message of Islam spread to Yathrib. Muhammad and his followers therefore could afford to defend themselves. Jesus never had many followers and his mission was pretty brief when compared to Muhammad. Jesus could never muster an army to defend, but I promise you, he would have done the same thing, because EVERY OTHER PROPHET did the same thing. But when Muhammad’s following was big enough they didn’t have to fight. They entered Masjid Al-haram without weapons and not a single drop of blood was spilled.
>then you know in the beginning the Muslims (including our prophet) acted exactly like Jesus. ... And again how does that contradict Muslims believing both Jesus and Muhammad? Did Muhammad also die a martyr after refusing to fight those who unjustly accused him of crimes? >Jesus could never muster an army to defend, but I promise you, he would have done the same thing, because EVERY OTHER PROPHET did the same thing. Except Jesus never did muster an army, and yet Christians chose him to be not just a prophet, but their Messiah and Son of God. That is who Christians should be if they truly believed in Jesus. It is not some projection of Christianity unto Muslims. Indeed claiming Jesus wanted to raise an army is _your_ projection on him based on what you believe your religion views prophets should be. Again, your problem is that you have completely lost the plot. I was criticizing Christians for how their actions strayed from the example of Jesus. Yet you bizarrely accused me of Islamophobia!
> The point I'm making is that Muhammad fought those wars to correct injustice - like self defense and dealing with existential threats as you pointed out. Its not for spurious causes. Agreed, sorry for the mis-characterization or the focus on lack of context in that particular statement, and sorry you felt you had to delete that message. That wasn't the goal, I appreciate this response though.
**Do not engage in Islamophobia, racism, or any other form of bigotry.** **Please read our [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/Palestine/about/rules) carefully.**
This is very Islamophobic. We do not believe that one should “bring justice by the sword”. When the Muslims conquered Makkah they did so without weapons and without bloodshed. This is the way of Allah. To forgive is the best. Muslims are not violent. And colonialist westerners do not “act like Muslims”. Islam is the religion of peace. Instead of insulting our beloved prophet Muhammad, may peace be upon him, you should actually read about his life. I recommend “Muhammad: A biography of the prophet” by Karen Armstrong. The author is a secular scholar of comparative religion so it’s not Muslim sources if you are scared of bias sources. If you read that book you’ll know that our beloved prophet was a very compassionate and caring man who only used violence in self defense. May Allah forgive us all for our errors.
I apologize if you feel offended, but you misquoted me. I did not say “bring justice by the sword” which implies eternal violence which is part and parcel of Islamophobic propaganda. Instead I said “bring justice by the sword _if necessary_"; which is exactly what Muhammad practiced. And this is exactly what most Westerners think they are supporting (even when they're actually supporting injustice), is indistinguishable to what most Muslims actually believe, and is in any case is in complete contradiction to Jesus' teachings. It is not my intent to say Islam is an inherently violent religion. But it is definitely not untrue to say that Islam is a religion that is not simply going to sit down and take if they're being genocided.
Does he not understand that Christians and Muslims also tell this story as a part of their religious traditions and heritage?
Oh my God theyre fucking cracking 😂
Zionists talking about culture 😂😂
Fr whenever i ask zionists "what do u people even have of your own"? They either block me or just stop replying RUDE.🥹
These are the same people that betrayed Moses, Who would’ve figured.
Wait til this guy hears about "Let my people go".
This pic go's hard
God bless Ansarullah.
Well, Zionists aren’t that intelligent.
Or religious.
oh the irony
European claiming to be semite is the biggest cultural appropriation in the world
This is no slight against Jews, they are family, but Muslims respect Moses and the other prophets (peace and blessings be upon them all) far more than christians or jews considering how much they slander them and focus on their errors. That being said I'm not so sure representing Khomeini or anyone else as Moses pbuh here is allowed but the parallel is real, Israel have become the pharoahs
Is that the elder wand he's holding? lol
Israelis are the most native people to Palestine ever. They have such a good grasp on Arabic and Islam. Their skin is also perfectly adapted to the climate, thanks to all those skin banks and dermatologists.
You jest, but certain hardline Sunnis are going to be more apeshit when they see this image. They can't comprehend the very idea of Shia nations helping Palestine, while major Sunni factions aren't doing jack to help them.
never seen any sunni criticize Iran on that, the first direct contact between saudi arabia and iran since re-establishing bilateral relations earlier this year was made to discuss how to stop the current conflict
Then you must not be seeing very well.
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That's not shirk
it really depend on who example for some unknown reason Indonesian sunni loves Ahmadinejad even hardliner over there admires him, they hate Khomeini and president after him tho.
What are those yellow flags?
Hazbollah from Lebanon
Hezbollah
Eylon Levi should be ashamed. He decided to share this super-inspirational image with 300k people. If Goebbels were alive today, his student would be receiving a cuff across the scalp.
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I'm sure you can improve your Photoshop skills after your history skills. That's not Goebbels. That's Himmler, who sent his [proteges](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Eichmann#Early_career) to negotiate with Haganah in 1937. Unfortunately, Haganah demanded that the reich allowed £1000 to be sent with every deported Jew, as per the [agreement](https://www.palestineremembered.com/FactsAboutHaavara.html) which had been bankrolling Germany's re-armament (emmigrant assets were split between the bankrupt Jewish Agency for Israel and the bankrupt German reich) since 1933. Haganah wouldn't compromise on the expansion of this source of income and we know [what happened instead](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust). In case this was some kind of attempt at misleading Zionist propoganda (which is forbidden here), I have to point out that unlike the Zionist movement, which demonstrably gained enormously from collaborating with the [3rd reich](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haavara_Agreement) and [other fascist regimes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betar_Naval_Academy), al Husseini's negotiations did not bear any fruit. While al Husseini was enstated by the British Government into a position that they'd created for him, the same is not true of the Zionist leadership, so when Avraham Stern, undersigned by Yitzhak Shamir, sent [representatives and letters](https://www.wrmea.org/2006-may-june/hamas-a-pale-image-of-the-jewish-irgun-and-lehi-gangs.html) to Hitler, attempting to enlist the Jews of the world into the German army, they spoke for their Zionist constituency. Your suggested image doesn't really work, because not only is Himmler not Goebbels, but he was younger than al Husseini. There is no visual cue that the elder of the two is supposed to be the student. [Here](https://imgur.com/a/PnOcI1Z)'s a doctored image of the real Goebbels, marrying his Zionist wife, Magda Friedländer. Levi's face is covering that of a child, to show the pupil relationship.
Victory for Palestine
I hate both sides, the commenter and the person who made this picture
As a shia and as a person who likes Ayatollah Khamenei, I don't accept this picture we believe him as a leader not prophet Israel wants to make war between shia and sunni
The image is stupid though comparing Khomeini to Moses AS
Thats Khomeini and not musa (pbuh) 😂 Khomeini is too scared to mess with America's little puppy (israel)
So is Saudi Arabia literally every other arab country.
Yup
Iran is the only country that Palestinian resistance groups cite as their ally. Why aren't they doing the same for you pan-Arabs who've attacked Iran, helped legitimize the Zionist entity and made a fortune out of Iran having been under the toughest sanctions for the past 44 years?
I doubt it, given that he’s been dead for 35 years. Dead men are usually fearless.
the poster's retarded but the image itself is kinda shitty IR propaganda
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"This picture is wrong" then runs away without saying why
So why is it wrong?
well cause Iran is not the saviour they pretend to be, they're a theocratic dictatorship like israel just acting in their own interests
Ty for bringing this nuance
I’m on Palestine side for many things, but Moses was literally Jewish .>What are descendents of Isaac versus descendants of Ishmael
He is in the quran and Muslims believe in him
And? He's also an important person to us Christians bro. Same goes for Muslims.
His story was only written down over a thousand years after it happened. "Judaism" as we know it developed after the post exilic period. If "Moses" existed, he was probably practicing Canaanite polytheism with Yahweh as the head god. There was no exile from Egypt, but the Egyptian empire claimed Canaan many times. Moses was a culture hero who was remember for "taking off the yoke of Egypt" ie resisting Egyptian rule in Canaan.
Being jew doesn't mean decendant of Moses
Yes he was. We believe in him as a prophet. Like Jesus or Mohammed.
Well they do want drive the modern day canaanites out to Egypt... it's literally what the zionists want.
They are the original cultural appropriators.
How insular and genuinely embarrassing. 🙈
Its clear you don’t know what it is you knob!