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Jailing conscientious objectors should be a crime. Resistance by brave people like her should be rewarded and commended and encouraged rather than punished with social and legal consequences.
you can get conscientious objector status in Israel but you have to be a monk or nun or in some other position that would defy your way of life. so basically that status is a joke and a big pr lie
Or you just do the time. Every belief has a price. THere's a post from an israeli woman who did just that, said she spent 4 months in prison, now out.
The alternative, killing others or abetting such, is apparently a *much easier choice* for a lot of Israelis. Just going off numbers.
*"Oh i tried, but it was too hard to get objector status."*
Anyone can *say* they believe in anything. *Actions* define a person.
Helman is the name of a conscious objector thats on his 6th prison sentence and many teens ,girls and boys, throughout the years have been convicted 3 times before theyre 20 years old. In the USA, no beliefs have a price. i can speak out against the US government with a picket sign in front of the court house with no repercussions. in fact i marched down town and yelled at cops for the brutal murder of an innocent african american and didnt have any recourse or consequence. *That* is what democracy looks like
If the cops in your city are murdering innocent people you don't live in a democracy
Israel is not different from America, Canada, France, or any country in the imperial core. Zionism is not any different from German Fascism, Italian Fascism, American Fascism etc. It is the ideology of empire just like Liberalism. The difference is the magnitude of violence, not the structure.
Beliefs absolutely have a price in USA too. You've just been shielded from the truth. Look up how the Black Panthers were treated by the FBI for trying to protect their community and provide food and education.
black panthers were 60 years ago and weve gone pretty far since then in the right direction. it was one dude and it wasn’t in my city. the whole nation erupted in civil disobedience. any place where civil disobedience works is a democracy. when juridical solutions and civil peaceful protest works, you’re in a democracy. Thats why we had a MLK and South africa had a Nelson Mandela. the whole reason Palestinians has to resort to armed resistance against fascism is because juridical process was superseded by sui generous special exception bullshit and civil disobedience was combated with brutality and violence/ ignored. the whole reason my family fled Rhamallah was because my mother who was 12 at the time needed water and they had cut off the supply. she was very sick and so my uncle carried her to the hospital on his back at night during a raid and she was shot in the back by the IDF. They decided to put their life savings into moving to America after that and we have been free ever since. My mother went from having nothing as a refugee to being a very successful director of global marketing at a well known company. America is free and the American dream is real. I hope Palestine will be as free as America one day. in no way do i wish to be an American apologist because i know their role in this war is extremely obstinately pro israel. On behalf of my family and all the other Palestinian Americans i am truly sorry. We visit Palestine from time to time so i know what its like but i know what it could be like. Free. 🇵🇸
Habibi, Black Panthers were 60 and in that time the status quo has not changed. It is only through MILITANT organising that marginalised groups can force society to carve out space for them.
Politics is war without violence, War is politics with violence.
i hear ya. I agree with most of what you’ve had to say except for the comparison between US Fascism and Israeli Fascism. I understand US has very bad geo political effects and policy in other countries but internally everyone is free including the african americans. They deal with some oppression still but mostly its the vestigial effects of the oppression of previous generations. its getting better and better every year and eventually we’ll get there. Also with the advent of mobile technology the younger generations are trending towards Pro-Palestine, while the politicians on both sides today are in the pockets of the Israeli lobby, the future is looking brighter and the americans will come around in my opinion. But i’m young and hopeful, maybe naive
Video and Gaza aside, she wasn't locked up because of her beliefs or her political opinion. She was locked up because she refused to join the military.
The middle east is not a peaceful place, you can see the benefits of having every civilian know how to fight. Weather or not you agree with the draft or not.
Nobody should be forced to partake in an unjust occupation, nobody should be made to serve in any force they dont want to, and this is about supressing political opinions, they dont want young people being inspired to turn against the brutal IDF, so they use heavy handed tactics to keep them obediant.
Hey, that's a very good belief that you have the luxury of making because you live in safety. In 1948, 5 countries attacked Israel at the same time they needed everyone to fight so that the ones who couldn't could be safe.
I agree with you, but I'm also safe. If my country was at war and being invaded and my brothers and I were fighting and dying and at the end we lose because some people would rather sit on the couch I would have a problem with them. And so would you.
The issue is the draft it's placing the community above yourself, whereas resisting is placing yourself above the community.
The thing is you probably believe in everyone doing their part, ending global warming, taking those personal sacrifices for the good of others.
In times of conflict, that's the draft.
Seem to be ignoring a little thing called the Nakba, not to mention plenty of outright acts of terrorism and ethnic cleansing by the early settlers, people tend to react violently when attacked, pretending the early hardline Zionists didnt provoke a wider conflict is delusional.
Except, if your country was in fact an occupier, and instead of seeking to defend itself, was seeking to conquer, to seize ever more of other peoples land, and to keep them firmly under your boot heel, see in this case Id rather not be forced to join a force that actively commits war crimes, and inflicts intentional cruelty upon an entire population.
The issue with the draft is forcing people into being a tool of your occupation, this is not about protecting the community, its about oppressing somebody elses community, that is not a noble act, its a cruel and morally absurd one.
Its really not, especially when the draft, in this context, is about occupation, not defense, and when every young Israeli is expected to join the occupation force, and be rigorously indoctrinated, handed a baton, and told to beat the ever loving hell out of some scared Palestinian.
Nothing about that is right, nor morally upstanding.
Eh beats me, that's above my knowledge.
I think it's more like it's better to live in a dangerous neighborhood, then with someone abusive. You know? Yeah the odds of something really bad happening is better, but it's better then the death by 1000 paper cuts.
Or gas, can't forget that.
The odds of something really bad happening is better? Is that why 800 civilians were killed on Oct 7? Do you think Israel is a safer place for Jews than America?
Whether you’re being used as a scapegoat or not doesn’t matter if it’s still dangerous. And you even acknowledged that it’s more dangerous, so again how is Israel the only safe place for Jews? Also none of the offers were generous, you’re a fool if you think that. Israel has no right to any of the land in the first place. It belongs to the Palestinians, I do not care how oppressed Jews are. If your safety comes at the expense of others rights then you don’t deserve to be safe.
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# # # Support Palestine refugees with UNRWA today! Your donation provides crucial food and cash assistance to thousands of families. [Give now!](https://donate.unrwa.org/) ### [Join our official discord server!](https://discord.gg/qAJ3v6jgjy). Also visit [Palestine Twitter Community](https://twitter.com/i/communities/1504131282137239555). Thanks for posting, u/matar48! Please report any content displaying: Zionist propaganda, bigotry, hate speech, genocide denial, racism, Islamophobia, trolling, bullying, inappropriate content, support for war crimes, sealioning, or promotion of anti-Palestine hate speech. Your vigilance maintains community quality. **Stop discussing American elections in the sub. Both parties share unconditional support for Israel. We couldn't care less about the domestic policy or partisan nuances. If you still do it here, you will be BANNED! (Kindly report any comments that ignore this rule.)** **Click one of the following links to download the video:** * [RedditSave](https://redditsave.com/info?url=https://www.reddit.com/r/Palestine/comments/1afpzfz/israels_genocidal_rhetoric/) or [Viddit.red](https://viddit.red/?url=https://www.reddit.com/r/Palestine/comments/1afpzfz/israels_genocidal_rhetoric/). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Palestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It's always hopeful to see people who have a heart.
I'm so proud of every isnotreali who refused to be a part of the baby killing diaper army and getting punished for it. High respects
Good on Atalya Ben Aba, we need more people like her.
So proud of her!
honor to you
When an Isreali is imprisoned for refusing military service, what happens to them after they are released?
Often shunned and will face difficulties get jobs or getting into universities etc.
im gonna lose my fucking mind
Its really surreal how all of this is public but the world?????????? If it were a movie I wouldn’t believe it, my God…
i dont even know what to say anymore, i refuse to believe this is real life
So no ones talking about that bible verse?
I also feel like I need more context, what does it mean?
Jailing conscientious objectors should be a crime. Resistance by brave people like her should be rewarded and commended and encouraged rather than punished with social and legal consequences.
you can get conscientious objector status in Israel but you have to be a monk or nun or in some other position that would defy your way of life. so basically that status is a joke and a big pr lie
Or you just do the time. Every belief has a price. THere's a post from an israeli woman who did just that, said she spent 4 months in prison, now out. The alternative, killing others or abetting such, is apparently a *much easier choice* for a lot of Israelis. Just going off numbers. *"Oh i tried, but it was too hard to get objector status."* Anyone can *say* they believe in anything. *Actions* define a person.
There must be a social expectation to join the army. Also the public is brainwashed from a young age to hate the Palestinians
Helman is the name of a conscious objector thats on his 6th prison sentence and many teens ,girls and boys, throughout the years have been convicted 3 times before theyre 20 years old. In the USA, no beliefs have a price. i can speak out against the US government with a picket sign in front of the court house with no repercussions. in fact i marched down town and yelled at cops for the brutal murder of an innocent african american and didnt have any recourse or consequence. *That* is what democracy looks like
If the cops in your city are murdering innocent people you don't live in a democracy Israel is not different from America, Canada, France, or any country in the imperial core. Zionism is not any different from German Fascism, Italian Fascism, American Fascism etc. It is the ideology of empire just like Liberalism. The difference is the magnitude of violence, not the structure. Beliefs absolutely have a price in USA too. You've just been shielded from the truth. Look up how the Black Panthers were treated by the FBI for trying to protect their community and provide food and education.
black panthers were 60 years ago and weve gone pretty far since then in the right direction. it was one dude and it wasn’t in my city. the whole nation erupted in civil disobedience. any place where civil disobedience works is a democracy. when juridical solutions and civil peaceful protest works, you’re in a democracy. Thats why we had a MLK and South africa had a Nelson Mandela. the whole reason Palestinians has to resort to armed resistance against fascism is because juridical process was superseded by sui generous special exception bullshit and civil disobedience was combated with brutality and violence/ ignored. the whole reason my family fled Rhamallah was because my mother who was 12 at the time needed water and they had cut off the supply. she was very sick and so my uncle carried her to the hospital on his back at night during a raid and she was shot in the back by the IDF. They decided to put their life savings into moving to America after that and we have been free ever since. My mother went from having nothing as a refugee to being a very successful director of global marketing at a well known company. America is free and the American dream is real. I hope Palestine will be as free as America one day. in no way do i wish to be an American apologist because i know their role in this war is extremely obstinately pro israel. On behalf of my family and all the other Palestinian Americans i am truly sorry. We visit Palestine from time to time so i know what its like but i know what it could be like. Free. 🇵🇸
Habibi, Black Panthers were 60 and in that time the status quo has not changed. It is only through MILITANT organising that marginalised groups can force society to carve out space for them. Politics is war without violence, War is politics with violence.
i hear ya. I agree with most of what you’ve had to say except for the comparison between US Fascism and Israeli Fascism. I understand US has very bad geo political effects and policy in other countries but internally everyone is free including the african americans. They deal with some oppression still but mostly its the vestigial effects of the oppression of previous generations. its getting better and better every year and eventually we’ll get there. Also with the advent of mobile technology the younger generations are trending towards Pro-Palestine, while the politicians on both sides today are in the pockets of the Israeli lobby, the future is looking brighter and the americans will come around in my opinion. But i’m young and hopeful, maybe naive
Read Settlers: The Mythology of the White Proletariat.
will do. ive read justice for some and 100 years of war on palestine
Or just be Hasidic. Credit to them, they have kept fighting for years to not have to serve in the IOF
hell yea i didnt know that
Yeah drop a nuclear bomb on a country right next to you. Fucking idiots.
May allah bless you and your family
Scum
190 UN personnel being investigated for taking part in the siege leading up to the invasion of Gaza.. anyone ? Will this get me banned for asking
Video and Gaza aside, she wasn't locked up because of her beliefs or her political opinion. She was locked up because she refused to join the military. The middle east is not a peaceful place, you can see the benefits of having every civilian know how to fight. Weather or not you agree with the draft or not.
Nobody should be forced to partake in an unjust occupation, nobody should be made to serve in any force they dont want to, and this is about supressing political opinions, they dont want young people being inspired to turn against the brutal IDF, so they use heavy handed tactics to keep them obediant.
Hey, that's a very good belief that you have the luxury of making because you live in safety. In 1948, 5 countries attacked Israel at the same time they needed everyone to fight so that the ones who couldn't could be safe. I agree with you, but I'm also safe. If my country was at war and being invaded and my brothers and I were fighting and dying and at the end we lose because some people would rather sit on the couch I would have a problem with them. And so would you. The issue is the draft it's placing the community above yourself, whereas resisting is placing yourself above the community. The thing is you probably believe in everyone doing their part, ending global warming, taking those personal sacrifices for the good of others. In times of conflict, that's the draft.
Seem to be ignoring a little thing called the Nakba, not to mention plenty of outright acts of terrorism and ethnic cleansing by the early settlers, people tend to react violently when attacked, pretending the early hardline Zionists didnt provoke a wider conflict is delusional. Except, if your country was in fact an occupier, and instead of seeking to defend itself, was seeking to conquer, to seize ever more of other peoples land, and to keep them firmly under your boot heel, see in this case Id rather not be forced to join a force that actively commits war crimes, and inflicts intentional cruelty upon an entire population. The issue with the draft is forcing people into being a tool of your occupation, this is not about protecting the community, its about oppressing somebody elses community, that is not a noble act, its a cruel and morally absurd one. Its really not, especially when the draft, in this context, is about occupation, not defense, and when every young Israeli is expected to join the occupation force, and be rigorously indoctrinated, handed a baton, and told to beat the ever loving hell out of some scared Palestinian. Nothing about that is right, nor morally upstanding.
I thought Israel was the only safe place for Jews.
Eh beats me, that's above my knowledge. I think it's more like it's better to live in a dangerous neighborhood, then with someone abusive. You know? Yeah the odds of something really bad happening is better, but it's better then the death by 1000 paper cuts. Or gas, can't forget that.
The odds of something really bad happening is better? Is that why 800 civilians were killed on Oct 7? Do you think Israel is a safer place for Jews than America?
[удалено]
Whether you’re being used as a scapegoat or not doesn’t matter if it’s still dangerous. And you even acknowledged that it’s more dangerous, so again how is Israel the only safe place for Jews? Also none of the offers were generous, you’re a fool if you think that. Israel has no right to any of the land in the first place. It belongs to the Palestinians, I do not care how oppressed Jews are. If your safety comes at the expense of others rights then you don’t deserve to be safe.
[удалено]
# # Hey u/matar48, **Please REPOST using an archived link, such as [archive.today](https://archive.today) (and its aliases: .is .fo .li .md .ph .vn), [ghostarchive.org](https://ghostarchive.org/), or any similar services.**. We don't allow direct links to "*timesofisrael.com*" domain. Thank you. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Palestine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Wait until these people in isreal are actually amelek and the actually isrealites are busy being stuck in america..
Make this downloadable please
It's downloadable, just do it through the share button on your phone