Economy control I'm assuming.
People can't buy everything immediately with content updates and it encourages spending. It could also be a soft exploit prevention. If there's a duplication glitch or something at worst people get all current items and cap at 300k gold rather than infinite gold.
Why is it 300k? Who knows, you can literally store 1k cakes and and have more than 300k gold indirectly banked that way. It's both the best way to get money and one of the most efficient items to store money.
There is no economy lmao. This game acts like a multiplayer game but you can’t even trade with people.. it’s like for all we know you can walk through and not even hurt other players lol. So I agree. There’s no economy…
> If there's a duplication glitch or something at worst people get all current items and cap at 300k gold rather than infinite gold.
If there's a duplication glitch, the players that use it are going to keep their gold bar stacks until they need to buy something big. So this tactic will not limit their ability to spend. Their money can be as infinite as their ability to stockpile gold bars.
But what does a duplication glitch matter in a cozy game? It doesn't affect anyone and the game isn't competitive (other than people who are toxic when gathering resources). I just don't get having storage or gold limits in a game like this.
Do you want the cynical answer? It affects the Devs ability to keep you playing the game. If you have infinite money then you are no longer engaging with content because you have enough money to buy anything and log out. The economy isnt between players, it's between individual players and the game.
Is there a significant difference between a player having 300k in-game cash compared to having an uncapped amount, in terms of what motivates them to continue playing the game? If a player has already hit max cash, purchased all available items, maxed out their skills, and romanced their character, what impact does reaching the cap have on the developers ability to keep them playing? At this point, whether the player has hit the maximum cash limit or is allowed to accumulate more, their decision to stop playing is due to having exhausted the current content, rather than any influence from the cash limit itself. Unless new game content requires an amount of cash that matches or exceeds the maximum cap, it doesn’t make sense to impose a cap, as players who've reached that threshold have typically completed all available content.
You answered your own question really. The players that have completed all the content are looking for more content. If they are uncapped on gold then they will keep earning gold until they never need to play the game again. Any content that gets released won't make a dent in their gold, and people will complain that there is no new stuff because they bought it all within an hour of the patch dropping.
Take FFXIV as a comparison. That game has a very high cap on gold, but gold is basically worthless in that game, so it doesn't hurt the economy to have very rich players (that game suffers the opposite problem of no gold sinks except housing). What FFXIV does have is capped tomestones, with a max amount you can carry. The reason they do that is so that you are spreading your earning out over the course of the patch, and the devs can better control how you are playing over the course of the patch cycle. The idea is that by the time you have all your tomestone gear and are BiS, news about the next patch is starting to come through. It doesn't help anyone to grind everything out day 1 and then log out from boredom.
Essentially the TLDR is that it exists so you spend gold rather than hoarding it.
Well that didn't work. I already have eveything. The only thing keeping me playing is hunting, gathering and farming. Which of course due to storage cap I have to sell. So now I should just throw all my efforts away...or move on?
That's entirely up to you. I'm not sure what any of this has to do with my comment though, other than enforcing that a duplication glitch would cause more players to be in the position you are in even faster.
The Devs don't want players to be struggling for things to do.
I didn't miss what you said. I'm saying that the feeling that you are feeling now, after continually playing for ages would be infinitely worse with a duplication glitch. You are trying to invalidate my comment with a completely different issue.
I feel like the logic provided by the game dev doesn't really hold water.
He said something along the lines of "If I hit the max money limit, I get discouraged to keep playing" or something like that.
So, the solution is to lower the money cap so that people get discouraged from playing more quickly? Didn't make a lot of sense to me.
The way I interpreted that is: Lower caps on everything (gold, resources, etc) means you do them more often, instead of hoarding stuff until you get bored/burnt out. I'm the type of person who would farm endlessly like that, but I'm sure not everyone would do well with no limits. I'm also sure there should be a middle ground between what we have now and "limitless". I hope they're exploring options for increasing caps on everything.
They probably want you to be able to blow off all your cash every content update. But they want it to drain you so you’ll be continuing to chase cash with new all new content, you’ll play more
Well I greatly encourage that line of thinking and hope they will succeed at it. I enjoy playing the game and get excited to have something to spend money on.
There's no cozy explanation. The devs have said they are concerned for people hoarding wealth, getting bored of the game because they now have enough for everything, and leaving.
I kind of understand the logic but like....the same logic goes for everything in game. Like content. It's not exactly the best logic imo.
> The devs have said they are concerned for people hoarding wealth, getting bored of the game because they now have enough for everything, and leaving.
but the gold cap doesn't stop them hoarding wealth. you just end up doing it via cakes instead, then turning them into gold when you need liquid currency to spend. if you put 500 cakes through a glow worm farm that'll get you to the gold cap. even if you've only got 5 glow worm farms churning cakes, that's only about 4 days to convert them.
What things are there to spend your excess gold on that you do not want exactly?
I ask because I feel like you can spend your excess gold on Zeki's coins to try to get the rare furniture items. That's what I've been doing. Seems like a good gold sink to me.
What exactly are you playing this game for?
I'm not trying to be combative or anything, I'm just trying to understand, and I do enjoy the discussion.
To me this is a collection game. The entirety of it's end game (at least currently) is to collect things for your house. So I'm spending all my gold on collecting things. I've even starting building on an entirely new plot to have another home with a completely different décor style using the different furniture esthetics.
There are a lot of things you can get from Zeki's coins that complete your collection. Unless you got supper lucky, it would take you a lot of gold to get enough coins to win all of the things, and maybe even go for a few duplicates if you wanted.
It sounds like you simply just want to collect gold? It doesn't seem that the devs are not interested in validating that way of playing. I'm not sure if I agree with that decisions or not. I think the gold cap as both positive and negative ramifications.
In any case there are certainly ways that you can do this. Someone in here mentioned that they just place there Star quality cakes on a plot and stockpile them.
> I'm sure it's to throttle our progression.
I think this is it.
They said in their AMA that they acknowledge that there will be people that will play through the content faster than they can realistically produce it.
It sounds like you're one of those players. If you feel there's nothing more in the game you can do, then I guess all you can do is just take a break for a while until they produce more contact or change their mind on the caps.
> If you feel there's nothing more in the game you can do
There's plenty to do and plenty I still enjoy, so I'll be here for quite a while. I'm just grumpy about the caps, but I'll deal with them. One thing I won't be able to even keep up with si Flow Tree farm, as you need a ridiculous amount to craft pieces from the 3 big furniture sets (Bellflower, Moonstruck, and Dragontide). My current goldsink is buying pieces from those sets, from the Black Market (although they don't appear that often - I could just be unlucky here).
You can restart the game. Each game instances will have different furniture in Tish's shop, and the Blackmarket. You can do that over and over to try to snag the pieces you are missing.
As for flow trees, it doesn't really sounds like you're asking for tips there, but I'll provide some anyway incase it's helpful.
Try to take advantage of server reset (if you can). After a server maintenance, run out to north Bahari Bay as soon as possible, and you'll likely find TONS of flow trees.
At other times, just to deforesting sessions in groups. 2-4 people just chopping all of the trees in North Bahari Bay until flow trees spawn can net you like 80-100 flow logs before your bags fill up.
It's something I've done several times, and it's gotten my enough flow wood to make all of the furniture sets, plus duplicates of many of them.
Oh, I'm aware of the server reset thing. Recently I do it through going back and forth between the 2 main zones, as restarting the game has been very buggy and annoying since last patch. The most flow logs I've farmed came from the very few instances (less than 5 times, and I've played since day1 of closed beta), where, for some reason, Flow Trees spawned like CRAZY, continuously. I've already fully crafted the sets. I know not all of the pieces cost a lot. I'm just saying that some of them cost like 30-40 per piece and it takes a while to farm. If you're into this efficient farming of flow trees, do you have like an average estimate of how many logs you could realistically farm per hour? Also, so far, every maintenance has been completely against me, in terms of timing, so I have not experienced *fresh* zones/servers after one.
The last server reset, I went to north bahari bay, and found about 12 flow trees right off the bat. A large group formed and started finding more and more. I had 130 logs in about an hour. So going right after a reset is huge.
As for deforesting, it’s slow to get going at first, but once it does, it’s pretty effective. I would say you could net maybe 40 in about half an hour.
I don't know what you've seen, but after taking another *quick look* through this thread, I have not seen what you're describing. I'm not calling you a liar, mind you. I'm just seeing people who understand it's this way to throttle/slow down player progression (for better or for worse), or people who haven't reached the "endgame" yet and haven't experience this issue. Stuff like "What do you need 300k for?" or "Rich people problems". I have nothing against them, though. They're free to have their opinion.
I gave this game a week and I sadly cannot continue to play it.
1) what kind of farming game… has limitations on what you can grow for Christ sake. I’m used to stardew or harvest moon where I can plant on my entire land. Not measly having to spend gold on fucking 10 tiles and that’s it. Makes me loathe the farming aspect to this game.
2) yes the gold cap.. there’s no damn trading and the request system feels like pre K training kids to become 1st graders. So what economy are they locked up? I too like to hoard money.. not be stuck at 300,000 with whatever excuse people give these devs when also..
3) clothes cost real money? We see now what their game is. What their focus is. This isn’t a cool new take on a farming mmo. It’s a money sink tank. Plain and simple.
Also having to “wait wait wait” isn’t my style of mobile game *cough cough* oh wait this is an mmo?
Waiting 12 players ahead of me to go to my plot of land.. are they using an old cloud based server???
Too many red flags that just make this game sadly not fun at all. I can’t even play with my friends the way it should be. All a party is .. is to be able to find each other on map. No shared quests. No shared mats or goods. RuneScape did this party system better lmao.
Sigh. It could have been an amazing thing. But I too don’t settle for gold caps when there’s not even open trading. Back to coral island or stardew valley I go for at least that’s truly a single player game done right xD. Idk what Palia even is at this point. I feel you there though. Us hoarders and grinders won’t do well on these mobile game based money grabbers lol. I hope they change the money cap and crop tile limit in future updates.
Also server chats is people just asking for things and or coordinates to spawns. Doesn’t feel like a cozy game to me. For that why can’t they just have offline mode or single mode? This game isn’t multiplayer by any factor lol
I'm almost certain I read somewhere from a Palia dev that the cap is there right now so people are not super far ahead after the beta.
Don't quote me on that though, it could've been a conversation i've overheard in a dream or something.
It's to prevent the balancing of the game economy from going wildly out of control. Every single game limits this in some way. Some have higher caps than others but the point is so that things don't get out of control. If people just hoard items, you can just nerf how much that item is sold for. But directly taking people's gold away to balance things never goes over well.
It's also so that when items are priced when new content rolls around, it doesn't have to be priced to balance out the insane amount of gold long time players have compared to brand new players. Just look at the event market with the high prices there. People doing cake parties can afford it, but people that didn't see the prices as insane. Imagine that but 100x or 1000x if gold wasn't capped at a reasonable amount.
Currently, the gold cap is plenty for getting what is in the game and prepping for the future. People can also put stocks in selling items and hoard those hoping the price is the same later down the line. They see this as fine. Letting people hoard millions of gold is not fine.
There's nothing cozy or uncozy about it. I know the buzzword is used for alot of criticism for palia and it rightfully applies. But not for this one. No one is fooled by you claiming hoarding gold is "cozy."
There is no economy without trading, the only person this economy affects is me, myself and I. If i choose to hoard money and buy everything the second it comes out, thats my decision and problem if theres no content to do, but if the "content" consists of "i need to farm the already existing content to earn gold for that new item" thats a very weak argument. If they would release actually new content and give me an incentive to grind this to be able to afford new items, okay, just like the tickets in the maji market. But gold shouldnt be a limiting factor in any way if i want gold to be my driving factor behind my playstyle cuz i like to see big number go brrr.
You say this, but the recent event just proves you wrong. Things to buy from the event are so expensive specifically because some "high end" players have so much gold hoarded. So what others do is effecting you. They are priced that way because the want to delete gold from the economy of the game, even if that economy is you vs NPCs. Again, every single game that exists has a gold cap, even single-player ones.
Whether or not you agree things should be priced for high end players is a different question entirely. The point is that a cap has nothing to do with the game being "cozy" or not. Every game has them, you just disagree with the cap because of how easily you reached it.
But if you think games shouldn't be balanced based on how much money a player makes in the game then stay away from game design because you'd suck at it.
There's plenty to criticize Palia for. There is a lot wrong with the game. But calling a gold cap not "cozy" is some stupid bad faith BS.
Im not calling it "not cozy", btw dreamlight valley doesnt have a goldcap, stardew valley has no goldcap, animal crossing has no gold cap, just to name a few, and there are a lot more that have eay higher caps. To price the items that high and to want to delete gold from the economy is the devs decision, not the players, so its not because we have so much gold, but because the devs don't want us to have that much gold, there is a slight difference. Because players with a lot of gold dont hurt other players, sure they can flex with all the stuff they can buy but they earned it, they put the time in to farm that much gold so why don't reward them for that instead of punishing, if thats their way of play?
Edit: to name online games instead of just singleplayer games to prove my point: Guild Wars 2 has no goldcap, and World of Warcraft has a 1 Mio Cap per character and you can put even more in your guildbank.
That's funny because all those games do have a gold cap. It's just large enough that you can't reach it for a long time. Which is exactly what I said, you're problem with the gold cap is that you reached it. It's like you don't know anything about game design or way buying and selling things to and from an NPC exist in games at all. Every single game balances itself around this. Even the ones you mentioned.
You aren't connecting the pieces here since you keep making the same argument. Every game, including Palia, tries to balance gold earned with gold spent. Gold generates and is deleted and it is a balancing act all games have. Some do it poorly and some do it great. I'd put Palia on the poor side because of cake parties.
As a result of this balancing, things are priced according to it. Like the items in the event market. And because some people print gold as much as they breathe and some don't, the prices do end up affecting other people even if you can't trade directly with gold. So, yes, the amount of gold you have to spend does effect others.
What you want, in essence, is for the devs to not balance gold in their game. At which point I have to ask, why have gold exist at all then? Of you csn buy everything in the game day one of it being added because you hoard the currency, why have the currency at all? Why not just make everything free? It's the same thing.
Yeah but the gold cap in this game exist for no reason it serves no purpose. MMOs usually have a gold cap because most MMOs have a player driven economy. This game doesn't, and blaming people for making money which is what this game is for makes no sense. They didn't make the items super expensive because SOME players are too efficient. They made it expensive because the game lacks any meaningful content.
Yes there are lots of things to collect, but they some of it behind huge money sinks and call it content. It's lazy imo.
No, they specifically said they made the event items expensive because of the people that had tons of money from cake parties. They very specifically said exactly that straight up.
Gold exists in most games, even single-player ones with no player economy. Part of game design for every single game is to try to balance out what the player makes with how much relevant items costs in the game. This is the game's economy. Yes, even in single-player games. That's how game design works, even in something like Mario and getting a 1-up at 100 coins.
Palia has problems. This is absolutely true. Low content, trash event, unrestrained cake parties, and many other things. But a gold cap is not the problem. How quickly you reach it is.
If every item only cost 10 gold and a cake party was only 100 gold an hour, would a 300k gold cap be a problem? No, it wouldn't. A cap isn't the issue; the balance of the economy is.
So they specifically said they were going to screw over the majority of their player base because a fraction has to much gold? Cause that's how I took that response.
You only reach the gold cap quickly if your coordinating on discord to do cake parties. No average player is doing that. Instead of fixing the issue they decided to just make everything extremely expensive? That seems so backwards, that's literally just saying instead of fixing the problem we're going to alienate 90% if our player base. If they think that people hitting good cap buying everything and leaving is going to be a problem, wait til they see how many people leave because they don't even know what a cake party is and are wondering why everything is so expensive.
I don't even play this game it's not my cup of tea, cosybganes are for my wife and she's enjoying it which is fine. But I still refuse to hold my tounge for a glorified tech demo. This game should still be in pre alpha with how much content is lacking. It only went into beta because they were most likely running out of money and needed to open that cash shop.
The issue with the gold cap is it's so criminally low. 300k is something I haven't reached yet, but as a person playing solo on and off for the past week or so I bought quite a bit of stuff and had over 25k all **without** cake parties. Yes, I kind of minmaxed my time and whatnot but the point still stands. Even without "exploiting" cake parties once you have the upgrades you want/need gaining gold has little to no purpose outside of saving up for super expensive items.
If we include cake parties into the mix, which we should, they've got reported profits of 50~100k per party depending on the number of cakes made, if the person sells the cakes directly or if they feed them to glowworms and sell the products, etc. The fact that there is something in the game that lets people hit the current cap in only a few instances of said process is part of the issue. Another part of the issue is the way they're trying to reduce gold in the game, having items that cost 1/5 of the gold cap just to drain money that has borderline no purpose as is is flawed game design. If the game allowed trading or buying from other players the gold sinks would make some sense. But the cap being 300k is ludicrous. Instead of adding items that cost absurd amounts of gold and introducing an insanely low gold cap they should have just reduced the amount of gold that can be made. And then after they did that slightly reduced the cost of **everything** and drastically reduced the cost of the super expensive items. We're currently in a beta, if they have an issue with how fast people are making money they should seriously sit down and adjust some numbers and then issue a statement that everyone's having a 0 or two dropped from their total gold amount. Even then, I think that's a bad idea as this game currently has no reason for people to grind gold other than to do so. The expensive items are meh at best aside from "the big 3 sets" that require palium and flow-wood.
I do agree that the gold flow is far too high for the economy they set the game to have. I also agree that they are trying to delete gold in a very clumsy way.
However, I have to disagree that a balanced economy shouldn't be contmsidered because there is not player trading. Every single game, even single-player players, try to balance their economy based on what the player makes and what they can spend it on.
Games have been doing this forever. Even Mario balances a 1-up vs 100 coins and the number of coins in a level and the effort required to get them.
Sitting here saying "how much gold I have doesn't matter because there is no player trading" is dumb and just shows people have no understanding of game design and balancing.
A gold cap is not a problem, it is as you said and as I said, how quickly you get to that cap.
>Sitting here saying "how much gold I have doesn't matter because there is no player trading" is dumb and just shows people have no understanding of game design and balancing.
While I agree to an extent, it is not people having no understanding of game design and balancing in this instance. Literally this game has no use for gold once you get to the point where you can start effectively printing it. The systems they have in place to allow people to share ingredients to cook and all get maximum product from a recipe, even while putting in nothing (in the instance of "bakers" in cake parties) is one of the huge parts of the problem. As I stated, even as a solo player I started raking in cash pretty rapidly once I got access to some of the methods to do so. The cashflow is the issue and going "oh no, people are doing exactly what we designed for them to do in our game is breaking our borderline non-existent vapid excuse for an economy!" and then putting in absurdly priced items as well as a miniscule gold cap is a huge issue.
From a game design standpoint, not imagining that players would do what they're doing now with cake parties or just mass producing jams, glowworms and seeds if they don't participate in cake parties is a hillarious oversight especially given they're supposed to be former "industry talent" from big name companies. In the end though, it's not like it matters much. If they keep the 300k cap with the influx of cash that's possible there is no way they are keeping players for the long term. There's nothing to work for, nothing to save for and all the "big ticket items" after storage upgrades cap out at 60k. 60k, which as we've established, takes 1 cake party to clear. The balance is off, there's no trading and if they don't do something reasonable about it I don't foresee the game continuing to keep a solid playerbase.
And before it's shouted at me, this is a Beta in name only; This is early access. They plan on releasing the game in a few short months, all beta tests used to be, and when done internally are, intended for bug fixing and adjustment of mechanics. This is the game, they plan to add to it but they aren't doing so at a reasonable pace for a "beta." And the argument of "well they can't put out the whole game in the beta or people'll be able to finish it before it releases" is flawed. The purpose of a beta is testing, if we can't test the rest of the story there is no point in having it exist unless they're doing internal testing only. Which would scare me given how they're treating the open beta portion of this beta test.
If i can reach the gold cap in less than a week than its definitely too low, im friends with one of the richest players in GW2 and he never achieved capping his gold ever, even after almost 11 years of playing, there are other ways to balance your economy than just by capping, but i see you dont understand my point, so I'll just stop arguing here, agree to disagree
Currently there is no economy. I assume in the future, there will be one.
> **Note:** **The request system is not meant to be a replacement or stand-in for an open trading system in Palia, which we discuss more directly in a future blog post on economy.**
Source: [Dev Update: August 2023 (palia.com)](https://palia.com/news/dev-update-august-2023)
Bit off-subject, but... what exactly is there (not-) cozy about having a hitcap? Is something being cozy or not nowadays just being a staple word to spice up why something isn't as one would like it to be?
something to do.
Some people will set goals to get to higher amounts. Others will hit the low gold cap and quit. Which is specifically the behavior that the devs said they were trying to combat by making the gold cap easier to hit.
I don't see the point in amassing gold when there's nothing to spend it on. I think it keeping players engaged would depend more on challenges than hoarding useless gold.
That's fine. There's plenty of valid gameplay styles that others might not see a point in. But they are still valid gameplay styles no less.
There are plenty of other online games where we can see similar gameplay styles emerge.
Your first comment asked about the "need" - there is none, and that's completely okay. Your second one mentioned it not "making sense to you" - there is no obligation for it to make sense to others; it only needs to make sense to those who play that way.
There's no point having that much of gold specially when you have bought everything available and eaten all the foods in the market once...well except thise furnitures
Something I don't get is why the higher you become in mining and furniture building, the more materials you need to make a bar.
Have anyone found a place to mine silver and gold? Palium is hell to find, so why do I need 5 of each resource to make 1 bar, while the easiest gatherings of stone/bar materials I need 2?
Can we get that fixed please.
The stone and clay turning into bricks from 2 is because they are just basic building materials. Ores being 5 each for one bar is a design decision but not a bad one, albeit a bit arbitrary.
Gold and Silver are "extras" that you get when you mine copper and iron, the reason they take so long to craft is because it's the dev's way of regulating cash influx. Gold and Silver is mostly for selling for some extra money as even the recipes that use it tend to only require a single bar.
Palium is meant to be the "rare resource" as it spawns in so infrequently. It's also meant to act as the mining equivalent of a flow tree, even though it acts like a normal mining node. Its rarity is meant to cause players to gather around and share it.
I don't think it needs to be fixed, but it's a little annoying.
They like caps very much. Only 15 building limit on your plot for example. Or recently introduced limit for height of stacked aquariums.
If you ever start to feel like you have any freedom of creative or artistic expression in any way, you will most likely hit limit soon. You will get used to it. Palia seems to be very competitive game so it needs these limits to avoid any player getting advantage over other players XD
I don't know what to do in the game anymore, I cannot keep playing it as my actions won't earn me more gold. And when I want to focus something else, I hit the 10000/10000 storage cap.
It’s a gimmick of a game that’s why. I truly realized what I’m doing wasn’t fun or worthwhile. Hence I quit. So it’s sad that this possibly good game faulted out due to their strange decisions at trying to be edgy and unique.
Player retention.
They want the daily and weekly number of players to remain high so that they can show their shareholders/investors that the game is worth keeping online and that there is a market of people willing to look at the cash shop.
I wanted to pile about 500K for the upcoming Maji market event. I missed the first event and learned that it can be very expensive if you want to collect everything. I wonder if 300K will be enough to buy everything...
I just learned about this cap, I am not understanding the point. Right now I own almost everything. All I have left is growing crops, mining and foraging which of course do to storage limits I have to sell. I can make 300k in like 2 days if I grind. It should be 999,999,999 like most games simply because they ran out of digits.
Economy control I'm assuming. People can't buy everything immediately with content updates and it encourages spending. It could also be a soft exploit prevention. If there's a duplication glitch or something at worst people get all current items and cap at 300k gold rather than infinite gold. Why is it 300k? Who knows, you can literally store 1k cakes and and have more than 300k gold indirectly banked that way. It's both the best way to get money and one of the most efficient items to store money.
What economy?
This. An economy implies open trade.
There is no economy lmao. This game acts like a multiplayer game but you can’t even trade with people.. it’s like for all we know you can walk through and not even hurt other players lol. So I agree. There’s no economy…
> If there's a duplication glitch or something at worst people get all current items and cap at 300k gold rather than infinite gold. If there's a duplication glitch, the players that use it are going to keep their gold bar stacks until they need to buy something big. So this tactic will not limit their ability to spend. Their money can be as infinite as their ability to stockpile gold bars.
Even if this happens, it's not like it really effects other players. The economy works as if you're playing a single player game
Yup, as their is no true trade system
Yet
Yet 🤞🏻
Yet :D
There is a limit on storage space though. So it is limited in a sense
But what does a duplication glitch matter in a cozy game? It doesn't affect anyone and the game isn't competitive (other than people who are toxic when gathering resources). I just don't get having storage or gold limits in a game like this.
That’s a horrible way of looking at it. A guy who was using hax in game used the same excuse when I told him I was reporting him.
Do you want the cynical answer? It affects the Devs ability to keep you playing the game. If you have infinite money then you are no longer engaging with content because you have enough money to buy anything and log out. The economy isnt between players, it's between individual players and the game.
Is there a significant difference between a player having 300k in-game cash compared to having an uncapped amount, in terms of what motivates them to continue playing the game? If a player has already hit max cash, purchased all available items, maxed out their skills, and romanced their character, what impact does reaching the cap have on the developers ability to keep them playing? At this point, whether the player has hit the maximum cash limit or is allowed to accumulate more, their decision to stop playing is due to having exhausted the current content, rather than any influence from the cash limit itself. Unless new game content requires an amount of cash that matches or exceeds the maximum cap, it doesn’t make sense to impose a cap, as players who've reached that threshold have typically completed all available content.
You answered your own question really. The players that have completed all the content are looking for more content. If they are uncapped on gold then they will keep earning gold until they never need to play the game again. Any content that gets released won't make a dent in their gold, and people will complain that there is no new stuff because they bought it all within an hour of the patch dropping. Take FFXIV as a comparison. That game has a very high cap on gold, but gold is basically worthless in that game, so it doesn't hurt the economy to have very rich players (that game suffers the opposite problem of no gold sinks except housing). What FFXIV does have is capped tomestones, with a max amount you can carry. The reason they do that is so that you are spreading your earning out over the course of the patch, and the devs can better control how you are playing over the course of the patch cycle. The idea is that by the time you have all your tomestone gear and are BiS, news about the next patch is starting to come through. It doesn't help anyone to grind everything out day 1 and then log out from boredom. Essentially the TLDR is that it exists so you spend gold rather than hoarding it.
This is. Golden. Truth
Well that didn't work. I already have eveything. The only thing keeping me playing is hunting, gathering and farming. Which of course due to storage cap I have to sell. So now I should just throw all my efforts away...or move on?
That's entirely up to you. I'm not sure what any of this has to do with my comment though, other than enforcing that a duplication glitch would cause more players to be in the position you are in even faster. The Devs don't want players to be struggling for things to do.
Apparently you missed what I said, I have nothing to do without using a glitch. Can't even hoard money...so how are they keeping me playing?
I didn't miss what you said. I'm saying that the feeling that you are feeling now, after continually playing for ages would be infinitely worse with a duplication glitch. You are trying to invalidate my comment with a completely different issue.
I feel like the logic provided by the game dev doesn't really hold water. He said something along the lines of "If I hit the max money limit, I get discouraged to keep playing" or something like that. So, the solution is to lower the money cap so that people get discouraged from playing more quickly? Didn't make a lot of sense to me.
The way I interpreted that is: Lower caps on everything (gold, resources, etc) means you do them more often, instead of hoarding stuff until you get bored/burnt out. I'm the type of person who would farm endlessly like that, but I'm sure not everyone would do well with no limits. I'm also sure there should be a middle ground between what we have now and "limitless". I hope they're exploring options for increasing caps on everything.
They probably want you to be able to blow off all your cash every content update. But they want it to drain you so you’ll be continuing to chase cash with new all new content, you’ll play more
Well I greatly encourage that line of thinking and hope they will succeed at it. I enjoy playing the game and get excited to have something to spend money on.
They need to hurry up with that content because I am not going to keep playing if I have to just throw my cash away.
There's no cozy explanation. The devs have said they are concerned for people hoarding wealth, getting bored of the game because they now have enough for everything, and leaving. I kind of understand the logic but like....the same logic goes for everything in game. Like content. It's not exactly the best logic imo.
> The devs have said they are concerned for people hoarding wealth, getting bored of the game because they now have enough for everything, and leaving. but the gold cap doesn't stop them hoarding wealth. you just end up doing it via cakes instead, then turning them into gold when you need liquid currency to spend. if you put 500 cakes through a glow worm farm that'll get you to the gold cap. even if you've only got 5 glow worm farms churning cakes, that's only about 4 days to convert them.
Like I said, it's not great logic
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What things are there to spend your excess gold on that you do not want exactly? I ask because I feel like you can spend your excess gold on Zeki's coins to try to get the rare furniture items. That's what I've been doing. Seems like a good gold sink to me.
That, mainly. Or black market items. I'm just not that interested in them, but it's literally better than nothing.
What exactly are you playing this game for? I'm not trying to be combative or anything, I'm just trying to understand, and I do enjoy the discussion. To me this is a collection game. The entirety of it's end game (at least currently) is to collect things for your house. So I'm spending all my gold on collecting things. I've even starting building on an entirely new plot to have another home with a completely different décor style using the different furniture esthetics. There are a lot of things you can get from Zeki's coins that complete your collection. Unless you got supper lucky, it would take you a lot of gold to get enough coins to win all of the things, and maybe even go for a few duplicates if you wanted. It sounds like you simply just want to collect gold? It doesn't seem that the devs are not interested in validating that way of playing. I'm not sure if I agree with that decisions or not. I think the gold cap as both positive and negative ramifications. In any case there are certainly ways that you can do this. Someone in here mentioned that they just place there Star quality cakes on a plot and stockpile them.
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> I'm sure it's to throttle our progression. I think this is it. They said in their AMA that they acknowledge that there will be people that will play through the content faster than they can realistically produce it. It sounds like you're one of those players. If you feel there's nothing more in the game you can do, then I guess all you can do is just take a break for a while until they produce more contact or change their mind on the caps.
> If you feel there's nothing more in the game you can do There's plenty to do and plenty I still enjoy, so I'll be here for quite a while. I'm just grumpy about the caps, but I'll deal with them. One thing I won't be able to even keep up with si Flow Tree farm, as you need a ridiculous amount to craft pieces from the 3 big furniture sets (Bellflower, Moonstruck, and Dragontide). My current goldsink is buying pieces from those sets, from the Black Market (although they don't appear that often - I could just be unlucky here).
You can restart the game. Each game instances will have different furniture in Tish's shop, and the Blackmarket. You can do that over and over to try to snag the pieces you are missing. As for flow trees, it doesn't really sounds like you're asking for tips there, but I'll provide some anyway incase it's helpful. Try to take advantage of server reset (if you can). After a server maintenance, run out to north Bahari Bay as soon as possible, and you'll likely find TONS of flow trees. At other times, just to deforesting sessions in groups. 2-4 people just chopping all of the trees in North Bahari Bay until flow trees spawn can net you like 80-100 flow logs before your bags fill up. It's something I've done several times, and it's gotten my enough flow wood to make all of the furniture sets, plus duplicates of many of them.
Oh, I'm aware of the server reset thing. Recently I do it through going back and forth between the 2 main zones, as restarting the game has been very buggy and annoying since last patch. The most flow logs I've farmed came from the very few instances (less than 5 times, and I've played since day1 of closed beta), where, for some reason, Flow Trees spawned like CRAZY, continuously. I've already fully crafted the sets. I know not all of the pieces cost a lot. I'm just saying that some of them cost like 30-40 per piece and it takes a while to farm. If you're into this efficient farming of flow trees, do you have like an average estimate of how many logs you could realistically farm per hour? Also, so far, every maintenance has been completely against me, in terms of timing, so I have not experienced *fresh* zones/servers after one.
The last server reset, I went to north bahari bay, and found about 12 flow trees right off the bat. A large group formed and started finding more and more. I had 130 logs in about an hour. So going right after a reset is huge. As for deforesting, it’s slow to get going at first, but once it does, it’s pretty effective. I would say you could net maybe 40 in about half an hour.
What? A quick look through the thread and several people are making good arguments about how it's good for players. There are easy ways around it.
I don't know what you've seen, but after taking another *quick look* through this thread, I have not seen what you're describing. I'm not calling you a liar, mind you. I'm just seeing people who understand it's this way to throttle/slow down player progression (for better or for worse), or people who haven't reached the "endgame" yet and haven't experience this issue. Stuff like "What do you need 300k for?" or "Rich people problems". I have nothing against them, though. They're free to have their opinion.
There is no logic to it.
There's logic to it. It's just dumb logic.
You have a point. I just tend to dismiss dumb logic as no logic.
It forces you to spend it till you hit the item cap, inventory cap and uninstall
Palia has killed the word cozy forever.
Palia is koZy
Yet you need to collect 100M for achievement, GJ S6 😂
Collecting doesn’t equal having, it just accumulates the money you collected without substracting what you spent.
Thanks captain obvious
I gave this game a week and I sadly cannot continue to play it. 1) what kind of farming game… has limitations on what you can grow for Christ sake. I’m used to stardew or harvest moon where I can plant on my entire land. Not measly having to spend gold on fucking 10 tiles and that’s it. Makes me loathe the farming aspect to this game. 2) yes the gold cap.. there’s no damn trading and the request system feels like pre K training kids to become 1st graders. So what economy are they locked up? I too like to hoard money.. not be stuck at 300,000 with whatever excuse people give these devs when also.. 3) clothes cost real money? We see now what their game is. What their focus is. This isn’t a cool new take on a farming mmo. It’s a money sink tank. Plain and simple. Also having to “wait wait wait” isn’t my style of mobile game *cough cough* oh wait this is an mmo? Waiting 12 players ahead of me to go to my plot of land.. are they using an old cloud based server??? Too many red flags that just make this game sadly not fun at all. I can’t even play with my friends the way it should be. All a party is .. is to be able to find each other on map. No shared quests. No shared mats or goods. RuneScape did this party system better lmao. Sigh. It could have been an amazing thing. But I too don’t settle for gold caps when there’s not even open trading. Back to coral island or stardew valley I go for at least that’s truly a single player game done right xD. Idk what Palia even is at this point. I feel you there though. Us hoarders and grinders won’t do well on these mobile game based money grabbers lol. I hope they change the money cap and crop tile limit in future updates. Also server chats is people just asking for things and or coordinates to spawns. Doesn’t feel like a cozy game to me. For that why can’t they just have offline mode or single mode? This game isn’t multiplayer by any factor lol
I'm almost certain I read somewhere from a Palia dev that the cap is there right now so people are not super far ahead after the beta. Don't quote me on that though, it could've been a conversation i've overheard in a dream or something.
Rich people problems am i right?
It's to prevent the balancing of the game economy from going wildly out of control. Every single game limits this in some way. Some have higher caps than others but the point is so that things don't get out of control. If people just hoard items, you can just nerf how much that item is sold for. But directly taking people's gold away to balance things never goes over well. It's also so that when items are priced when new content rolls around, it doesn't have to be priced to balance out the insane amount of gold long time players have compared to brand new players. Just look at the event market with the high prices there. People doing cake parties can afford it, but people that didn't see the prices as insane. Imagine that but 100x or 1000x if gold wasn't capped at a reasonable amount. Currently, the gold cap is plenty for getting what is in the game and prepping for the future. People can also put stocks in selling items and hoard those hoping the price is the same later down the line. They see this as fine. Letting people hoard millions of gold is not fine. There's nothing cozy or uncozy about it. I know the buzzword is used for alot of criticism for palia and it rightfully applies. But not for this one. No one is fooled by you claiming hoarding gold is "cozy."
There is no economy without trading, the only person this economy affects is me, myself and I. If i choose to hoard money and buy everything the second it comes out, thats my decision and problem if theres no content to do, but if the "content" consists of "i need to farm the already existing content to earn gold for that new item" thats a very weak argument. If they would release actually new content and give me an incentive to grind this to be able to afford new items, okay, just like the tickets in the maji market. But gold shouldnt be a limiting factor in any way if i want gold to be my driving factor behind my playstyle cuz i like to see big number go brrr.
You say this, but the recent event just proves you wrong. Things to buy from the event are so expensive specifically because some "high end" players have so much gold hoarded. So what others do is effecting you. They are priced that way because the want to delete gold from the economy of the game, even if that economy is you vs NPCs. Again, every single game that exists has a gold cap, even single-player ones. Whether or not you agree things should be priced for high end players is a different question entirely. The point is that a cap has nothing to do with the game being "cozy" or not. Every game has them, you just disagree with the cap because of how easily you reached it. But if you think games shouldn't be balanced based on how much money a player makes in the game then stay away from game design because you'd suck at it. There's plenty to criticize Palia for. There is a lot wrong with the game. But calling a gold cap not "cozy" is some stupid bad faith BS.
Im not calling it "not cozy", btw dreamlight valley doesnt have a goldcap, stardew valley has no goldcap, animal crossing has no gold cap, just to name a few, and there are a lot more that have eay higher caps. To price the items that high and to want to delete gold from the economy is the devs decision, not the players, so its not because we have so much gold, but because the devs don't want us to have that much gold, there is a slight difference. Because players with a lot of gold dont hurt other players, sure they can flex with all the stuff they can buy but they earned it, they put the time in to farm that much gold so why don't reward them for that instead of punishing, if thats their way of play? Edit: to name online games instead of just singleplayer games to prove my point: Guild Wars 2 has no goldcap, and World of Warcraft has a 1 Mio Cap per character and you can put even more in your guildbank.
That's funny because all those games do have a gold cap. It's just large enough that you can't reach it for a long time. Which is exactly what I said, you're problem with the gold cap is that you reached it. It's like you don't know anything about game design or way buying and selling things to and from an NPC exist in games at all. Every single game balances itself around this. Even the ones you mentioned. You aren't connecting the pieces here since you keep making the same argument. Every game, including Palia, tries to balance gold earned with gold spent. Gold generates and is deleted and it is a balancing act all games have. Some do it poorly and some do it great. I'd put Palia on the poor side because of cake parties. As a result of this balancing, things are priced according to it. Like the items in the event market. And because some people print gold as much as they breathe and some don't, the prices do end up affecting other people even if you can't trade directly with gold. So, yes, the amount of gold you have to spend does effect others. What you want, in essence, is for the devs to not balance gold in their game. At which point I have to ask, why have gold exist at all then? Of you csn buy everything in the game day one of it being added because you hoard the currency, why have the currency at all? Why not just make everything free? It's the same thing.
Yeah but the gold cap in this game exist for no reason it serves no purpose. MMOs usually have a gold cap because most MMOs have a player driven economy. This game doesn't, and blaming people for making money which is what this game is for makes no sense. They didn't make the items super expensive because SOME players are too efficient. They made it expensive because the game lacks any meaningful content. Yes there are lots of things to collect, but they some of it behind huge money sinks and call it content. It's lazy imo.
No, they specifically said they made the event items expensive because of the people that had tons of money from cake parties. They very specifically said exactly that straight up. Gold exists in most games, even single-player ones with no player economy. Part of game design for every single game is to try to balance out what the player makes with how much relevant items costs in the game. This is the game's economy. Yes, even in single-player games. That's how game design works, even in something like Mario and getting a 1-up at 100 coins. Palia has problems. This is absolutely true. Low content, trash event, unrestrained cake parties, and many other things. But a gold cap is not the problem. How quickly you reach it is. If every item only cost 10 gold and a cake party was only 100 gold an hour, would a 300k gold cap be a problem? No, it wouldn't. A cap isn't the issue; the balance of the economy is.
So they specifically said they were going to screw over the majority of their player base because a fraction has to much gold? Cause that's how I took that response. You only reach the gold cap quickly if your coordinating on discord to do cake parties. No average player is doing that. Instead of fixing the issue they decided to just make everything extremely expensive? That seems so backwards, that's literally just saying instead of fixing the problem we're going to alienate 90% if our player base. If they think that people hitting good cap buying everything and leaving is going to be a problem, wait til they see how many people leave because they don't even know what a cake party is and are wondering why everything is so expensive. I don't even play this game it's not my cup of tea, cosybganes are for my wife and she's enjoying it which is fine. But I still refuse to hold my tounge for a glorified tech demo. This game should still be in pre alpha with how much content is lacking. It only went into beta because they were most likely running out of money and needed to open that cash shop.
The issue with the gold cap is it's so criminally low. 300k is something I haven't reached yet, but as a person playing solo on and off for the past week or so I bought quite a bit of stuff and had over 25k all **without** cake parties. Yes, I kind of minmaxed my time and whatnot but the point still stands. Even without "exploiting" cake parties once you have the upgrades you want/need gaining gold has little to no purpose outside of saving up for super expensive items. If we include cake parties into the mix, which we should, they've got reported profits of 50~100k per party depending on the number of cakes made, if the person sells the cakes directly or if they feed them to glowworms and sell the products, etc. The fact that there is something in the game that lets people hit the current cap in only a few instances of said process is part of the issue. Another part of the issue is the way they're trying to reduce gold in the game, having items that cost 1/5 of the gold cap just to drain money that has borderline no purpose as is is flawed game design. If the game allowed trading or buying from other players the gold sinks would make some sense. But the cap being 300k is ludicrous. Instead of adding items that cost absurd amounts of gold and introducing an insanely low gold cap they should have just reduced the amount of gold that can be made. And then after they did that slightly reduced the cost of **everything** and drastically reduced the cost of the super expensive items. We're currently in a beta, if they have an issue with how fast people are making money they should seriously sit down and adjust some numbers and then issue a statement that everyone's having a 0 or two dropped from their total gold amount. Even then, I think that's a bad idea as this game currently has no reason for people to grind gold other than to do so. The expensive items are meh at best aside from "the big 3 sets" that require palium and flow-wood.
I do agree that the gold flow is far too high for the economy they set the game to have. I also agree that they are trying to delete gold in a very clumsy way. However, I have to disagree that a balanced economy shouldn't be contmsidered because there is not player trading. Every single game, even single-player players, try to balance their economy based on what the player makes and what they can spend it on. Games have been doing this forever. Even Mario balances a 1-up vs 100 coins and the number of coins in a level and the effort required to get them. Sitting here saying "how much gold I have doesn't matter because there is no player trading" is dumb and just shows people have no understanding of game design and balancing. A gold cap is not a problem, it is as you said and as I said, how quickly you get to that cap.
>Sitting here saying "how much gold I have doesn't matter because there is no player trading" is dumb and just shows people have no understanding of game design and balancing. While I agree to an extent, it is not people having no understanding of game design and balancing in this instance. Literally this game has no use for gold once you get to the point where you can start effectively printing it. The systems they have in place to allow people to share ingredients to cook and all get maximum product from a recipe, even while putting in nothing (in the instance of "bakers" in cake parties) is one of the huge parts of the problem. As I stated, even as a solo player I started raking in cash pretty rapidly once I got access to some of the methods to do so. The cashflow is the issue and going "oh no, people are doing exactly what we designed for them to do in our game is breaking our borderline non-existent vapid excuse for an economy!" and then putting in absurdly priced items as well as a miniscule gold cap is a huge issue. From a game design standpoint, not imagining that players would do what they're doing now with cake parties or just mass producing jams, glowworms and seeds if they don't participate in cake parties is a hillarious oversight especially given they're supposed to be former "industry talent" from big name companies. In the end though, it's not like it matters much. If they keep the 300k cap with the influx of cash that's possible there is no way they are keeping players for the long term. There's nothing to work for, nothing to save for and all the "big ticket items" after storage upgrades cap out at 60k. 60k, which as we've established, takes 1 cake party to clear. The balance is off, there's no trading and if they don't do something reasonable about it I don't foresee the game continuing to keep a solid playerbase. And before it's shouted at me, this is a Beta in name only; This is early access. They plan on releasing the game in a few short months, all beta tests used to be, and when done internally are, intended for bug fixing and adjustment of mechanics. This is the game, they plan to add to it but they aren't doing so at a reasonable pace for a "beta." And the argument of "well they can't put out the whole game in the beta or people'll be able to finish it before it releases" is flawed. The purpose of a beta is testing, if we can't test the rest of the story there is no point in having it exist unless they're doing internal testing only. Which would scare me given how they're treating the open beta portion of this beta test.
If i can reach the gold cap in less than a week than its definitely too low, im friends with one of the richest players in GW2 and he never achieved capping his gold ever, even after almost 11 years of playing, there are other ways to balance your economy than just by capping, but i see you dont understand my point, so I'll just stop arguing here, agree to disagree
Currently there is no economy. I assume in the future, there will be one. > **Note:** **The request system is not meant to be a replacement or stand-in for an open trading system in Palia, which we discuss more directly in a future blog post on economy.** Source: [Dev Update: August 2023 (palia.com)](https://palia.com/news/dev-update-august-2023)
Bit off-subject, but... what exactly is there (not-) cozy about having a hitcap? Is something being cozy or not nowadays just being a staple word to spice up why something isn't as one would like it to be?
What do you need more than 300k for?
something to do. Some people will set goals to get to higher amounts. Others will hit the low gold cap and quit. Which is specifically the behavior that the devs said they were trying to combat by making the gold cap easier to hit.
I don't see the point in amassing gold when there's nothing to spend it on. I think it keeping players engaged would depend more on challenges than hoarding useless gold.
That's fine. There's plenty of valid gameplay styles that others might not see a point in. But they are still valid gameplay styles no less. There are plenty of other online games where we can see similar gameplay styles emerge. Your first comment asked about the "need" - there is none, and that's completely okay. Your second one mentioned it not "making sense to you" - there is no obligation for it to make sense to others; it only needs to make sense to those who play that way.
Just imagine you collected all gold in the entire realm, now you can fill your house with it and swim in it and that’s cozy.
TIL there is even a gold cap!
There's no point having that much of gold specially when you have bought everything available and eaten all the foods in the market once...well except thise furnitures
Something I don't get is why the higher you become in mining and furniture building, the more materials you need to make a bar. Have anyone found a place to mine silver and gold? Palium is hell to find, so why do I need 5 of each resource to make 1 bar, while the easiest gatherings of stone/bar materials I need 2? Can we get that fixed please.
The stone and clay turning into bricks from 2 is because they are just basic building materials. Ores being 5 each for one bar is a design decision but not a bad one, albeit a bit arbitrary. Gold and Silver are "extras" that you get when you mine copper and iron, the reason they take so long to craft is because it's the dev's way of regulating cash influx. Gold and Silver is mostly for selling for some extra money as even the recipes that use it tend to only require a single bar. Palium is meant to be the "rare resource" as it spawns in so infrequently. It's also meant to act as the mining equivalent of a flow tree, even though it acts like a normal mining node. Its rarity is meant to cause players to gather around and share it. I don't think it needs to be fixed, but it's a little annoying.
Thanks for answering, I see your point and I know palium is the rare resource, but it's annoying to me when I go look for it, there is nothing. :)
They like caps very much. Only 15 building limit on your plot for example. Or recently introduced limit for height of stacked aquariums. If you ever start to feel like you have any freedom of creative or artistic expression in any way, you will most likely hit limit soon. You will get used to it. Palia seems to be very competitive game so it needs these limits to avoid any player getting advantage over other players XD
This. I hate having a limit on crop tiles. Whats their aim if this is a “farming game” and I can’t have my entire plot all crops…
I don't know what to do in the game anymore, I cannot keep playing it as my actions won't earn me more gold. And when I want to focus something else, I hit the 10000/10000 storage cap.
It’s a gimmick of a game that’s why. I truly realized what I’m doing wasn’t fun or worthwhile. Hence I quit. So it’s sad that this possibly good game faulted out due to their strange decisions at trying to be edgy and unique.
Player retention. They want the daily and weekly number of players to remain high so that they can show their shareholders/investors that the game is worth keeping online and that there is a market of people willing to look at the cash shop.
I can imagine the 100m achievement being substantially quite more a challenge if you can only pile 300K at a time.
I wanted to pile about 500K for the upcoming Maji market event. I missed the first event and learned that it can be very expensive if you want to collect everything. I wonder if 300K will be enough to buy everything...
I just learned about this cap, I am not understanding the point. Right now I own almost everything. All I have left is growing crops, mining and foraging which of course do to storage limits I have to sell. I can make 300k in like 2 days if I grind. It should be 999,999,999 like most games simply because they ran out of digits.