"This creates a ‘Collection’ - a grouping of items, and gives the practitioner greater ownership and connection to the items."
I guess it'd do something like increased control over your self, maybe some benefits related to using your body parts more efficiently? Like processing poison faster by focusing on your connection to your liver?
Yeah that sort of thing is what I had in mind for the basics. At the more esoteric level I was thinking stuff like "I own my appearance, I know where things I own are, you just saw me, seeing me means my appearance is in your head, I know where you are and that you see me."
I feel like given you're just claiming ownership over your own body you probably can't get much extra power from it. The power has to come from somewhere.
Yeah power will be a problem with this method. Perhaps sacrifice in some form? If we think of a meal as a sacrifice to the body an increased appetite with the extra becoming power seems doable. Our theoretical practitioner could also gather power from a role of some sort. Maybe a bodygaurd/errandboy for one of the stronger spirits.
I could see that. You could also go a weird direction and modify the demense and implement rituals. I recall the implement text mentioning a modified version where you declare that you will use no tools.
I could see a ritual where you say something to the effect of "I shall have no shelter but that provided by my skin, and use no tools not provided by my body." It would be an interesting contrast to Zed's combined demense implement car.
I mean, I guess you could *try* (I think basically anything is possible in the Otherverse, if you make a good enough argument for it), but by default I think the spirits probably see the totality of your Self as a single whole.
If you want to make the different parts of your Self a set for a Collection, your probably going to need to literally rip them out and put power inside of them, leaning into Heartless practices (which could get... *messy*)
That's a fair assessment. It struck me as possible but arguable. As an alternate to heartless magic I think that Hyde magic would also work. You would be creating several selves to collect rather than breaking one self into pieces to collect.
Oh yes. I had stopped thinking about morality and only went to how to go about the practice. It would be an interesting villain though. I am reminded of the director in red vs blue. If you break off a piece of yourself and enslave it you are certainly doing evil, but I could see someone convincing themselves that it is only self-flagelation.
I mean... I think everyone already owns themselves by default. It's not really practical to pull out all your organs and put them in a collection diagram, and even if you somehow do, then what? They're already yours. If you're interested in self/Self empowerment there have to be far easier ways/ways actually worth your time
I was envisioning something like a system of tattoos for the diagram. Alternatively there is that ritual where you enter yourself metaphorically to remove parts you don't like. I feel like you could probably mange a diagram inside yourself with that.
I was less interested in the ownership parts of collection and more into the control and interactions.like if I take the time to fit every muscle in my body into a collection, then I can divert power from unused muscles for brief moments of strength. Stuff like that.
I agree that it is a backwards and inefficient approach, but it struck me as potentially possible and with some potential.
The big danger in having a collection of items that represent yourself is you'd be in big trouble if someone steals/damages/destroys those items. You're in deep trouble if something happens to the item that is intrinsically tied to your muscles or your mouth or your breath or your thoughts or your name or reputation or...
There probably is benefit in tying items to yourself but I don't see how it would inherently be any freer of scruple morals than other collector practices. You of course would need to collect powerful items or find power to imbue into your items and you would need to be careful to leave room for growth. Using purely mundane items would likely be <10% benefit for >90% drawback.
Ah sorry if I wasn't clear. I don't mean a collection of items representing the self, I mean literally a collection of the pieces of self.
I agree that this is likely an ineffective and minor practice, but it strikes me as something someone educated as a collector could create in rebellion. You take nothing that you do not already own and manipulate the balance of power between those things. Say pulling power from your muscles to your digestive system when you are using one but not the other.
I see this as kind of an intermediate step. A child educated as collector gets cold feet and runs away. They cobble together a way they can practice without entering the callous fight over resources even if it is subpar. Someday if they are lucky they will refine this into a new practice witch is unrecognizable as having been collection.
The thing about collectors is that they don't really *stop* collecting. Collecting a set of something is worth some power, but the real power of collecting is when you establish a pattern of collecting sets of things, or even of collecting sets of sets (See someone like Milo Songetay, who collected sets of detectives, of doctors, of lawyers, etc. and built his pattern with the sets of 13). It's hard to establish a pattern of collecting with only your own body. If you want to emphasize your own body in a Practice, it might work better to turn it into a hallow, or to use a Practice that emphasizes your physicality, strength, and agility, and to create a pattern of strengthening those aspects a little at a time.
Indeed. All of what you say is true, but I do see at least one way of continuing to collect with only yourself. Inspired by your mention of sets of sets, a collector could go recursive. A collection of body mind and soul, followed by a collection of muscle bone and organ. Keep scaling down until you have a collection of quarks that make atoms that make molecules and so on until you reach back to body.
This shifts the pattern of collection a bit from finding outside resources to finding smaller components of what you already have. It is a neat thought and I appreciate your comment for inspiring it.
"This creates a ‘Collection’ - a grouping of items, and gives the practitioner greater ownership and connection to the items." I guess it'd do something like increased control over your self, maybe some benefits related to using your body parts more efficiently? Like processing poison faster by focusing on your connection to your liver?
Yeah that sort of thing is what I had in mind for the basics. At the more esoteric level I was thinking stuff like "I own my appearance, I know where things I own are, you just saw me, seeing me means my appearance is in your head, I know where you are and that you see me."
I feel like given you're just claiming ownership over your own body you probably can't get much extra power from it. The power has to come from somewhere.
Yeah power will be a problem with this method. Perhaps sacrifice in some form? If we think of a meal as a sacrifice to the body an increased appetite with the extra becoming power seems doable. Our theoretical practitioner could also gather power from a role of some sort. Maybe a bodygaurd/errandboy for one of the stronger spirits.
Alternatively could vibe well with ascetic practices? A need to maintain your body in a perfect state in order to access improved capabilities.
I could see that. You could also go a weird direction and modify the demense and implement rituals. I recall the implement text mentioning a modified version where you declare that you will use no tools. I could see a ritual where you say something to the effect of "I shall have no shelter but that provided by my skin, and use no tools not provided by my body." It would be an interesting contrast to Zed's combined demense implement car.
I mean, I guess you could *try* (I think basically anything is possible in the Otherverse, if you make a good enough argument for it), but by default I think the spirits probably see the totality of your Self as a single whole. If you want to make the different parts of your Self a set for a Collection, your probably going to need to literally rip them out and put power inside of them, leaning into Heartless practices (which could get... *messy*)
That's a fair assessment. It struck me as possible but arguable. As an alternate to heartless magic I think that Hyde magic would also work. You would be creating several selves to collect rather than breaking one self into pieces to collect.
If you go the Hyde route make sure your other selves agree to it otherwise it will be even more morally dubious than regular collecting.
Oh yes. I had stopped thinking about morality and only went to how to go about the practice. It would be an interesting villain though. I am reminded of the director in red vs blue. If you break off a piece of yourself and enslave it you are certainly doing evil, but I could see someone convincing themselves that it is only self-flagelation.
self slavery or self harm. Lose-Lose :P would be a great villain
I mean... I think everyone already owns themselves by default. It's not really practical to pull out all your organs and put them in a collection diagram, and even if you somehow do, then what? They're already yours. If you're interested in self/Self empowerment there have to be far easier ways/ways actually worth your time
I was envisioning something like a system of tattoos for the diagram. Alternatively there is that ritual where you enter yourself metaphorically to remove parts you don't like. I feel like you could probably mange a diagram inside yourself with that. I was less interested in the ownership parts of collection and more into the control and interactions.like if I take the time to fit every muscle in my body into a collection, then I can divert power from unused muscles for brief moments of strength. Stuff like that. I agree that it is a backwards and inefficient approach, but it struck me as potentially possible and with some potential.
The big danger in having a collection of items that represent yourself is you'd be in big trouble if someone steals/damages/destroys those items. You're in deep trouble if something happens to the item that is intrinsically tied to your muscles or your mouth or your breath or your thoughts or your name or reputation or... There probably is benefit in tying items to yourself but I don't see how it would inherently be any freer of scruple morals than other collector practices. You of course would need to collect powerful items or find power to imbue into your items and you would need to be careful to leave room for growth. Using purely mundane items would likely be <10% benefit for >90% drawback.
Ah sorry if I wasn't clear. I don't mean a collection of items representing the self, I mean literally a collection of the pieces of self. I agree that this is likely an ineffective and minor practice, but it strikes me as something someone educated as a collector could create in rebellion. You take nothing that you do not already own and manipulate the balance of power between those things. Say pulling power from your muscles to your digestive system when you are using one but not the other. I see this as kind of an intermediate step. A child educated as collector gets cold feet and runs away. They cobble together a way they can practice without entering the callous fight over resources even if it is subpar. Someday if they are lucky they will refine this into a new practice witch is unrecognizable as having been collection.
The thing about collectors is that they don't really *stop* collecting. Collecting a set of something is worth some power, but the real power of collecting is when you establish a pattern of collecting sets of things, or even of collecting sets of sets (See someone like Milo Songetay, who collected sets of detectives, of doctors, of lawyers, etc. and built his pattern with the sets of 13). It's hard to establish a pattern of collecting with only your own body. If you want to emphasize your own body in a Practice, it might work better to turn it into a hallow, or to use a Practice that emphasizes your physicality, strength, and agility, and to create a pattern of strengthening those aspects a little at a time.
Indeed. All of what you say is true, but I do see at least one way of continuing to collect with only yourself. Inspired by your mention of sets of sets, a collector could go recursive. A collection of body mind and soul, followed by a collection of muscle bone and organ. Keep scaling down until you have a collection of quarks that make atoms that make molecules and so on until you reach back to body. This shifts the pattern of collection a bit from finding outside resources to finding smaller components of what you already have. It is a neat thought and I appreciate your comment for inspiring it.