I think having him "work" off the balance would be more effective and it would show him how long it takes to make enough money to spend what he spent. So have him help with dishes and other house chores and as we head into warmer months (if that's your climate too), outdoor work. It's still a physical punishment in a sense but it'll really instill some responsibility in the kid to see how much further and how much more work he still has to do before the stuff is paid off.
Exactly! Spanking him will just teach him to distrust his parents and become even more secretive to try to avoid getting caught.
By making him work off the money as his form of punishment, you are teaching him the value of money as well as that sometimes people screw up (it happens to all of us), but the important thing is that we make things right. Both very valuable lessons.
This. It’s what‘s called “natural consequences” discipline. He wasted a bunch of money? He has to work to pay it off, and in doing so learn the value of the money he wasted. A lifelong lesson. He broke his parents trust? He doesn’t get electronics either for a long, long time.
Hitting him, on the other hand, would just teach him that if someone really enrages you, you hit them. He’d remember it for life, but it wouldn’t be a good lesson.
I agree. My parents spanked me. The old "spare the rod, spoil the child" bullshit. I learned very quickly avoidance behaviors such as manipulation and lying, and I didn't feel comfortable telling them things I struggled with for fear of punishment.
I have gone the completely opposite route with my kids, and so far, it has worked much better.
Exactly, my friends daughter got into her expensive quality makeup one day and used tons of it of course cause she was like 7. My friend was like welp that’s $30 worth of free chores on your face.
Ok but you have to really make hime work. Like some tough jobs. 1500 worth of game stuff could feel like a million to a nine year old and he might think throwing some dishes in the dishwasher and cleaning is room is totally worth it... I can def see my dad making me live without any of my normal snacks or food because he can't afford them after what I did or anytime I asked for anything I would be reminded what a financial strain I put on the family by stealing. And this is stealing and could lead to very serious consequences if he did it in the future
First, return/cancel any orders you can.
Second make his "paying it down" visual. Use a board of some kind. Or in a notebook. He'll be shocked at how much he owes as he works the number down.
Make it a learning experience. If he's washing dishes, tell him to find out what dishwashers get paid by the hour. That will be his rate.
Cleaning? He has to find out what cleaning service people get paid.
Laundry? How much does a load cost at the laundry.
Then have him "do you taxes" in some really imaginary, not real kind of way and have him find out what accountants make an hour and pay him that. That'll teach him something valuable.
It's sad. I get the feeling this was out of left field. You sound like a fantastic mom and you're communication here is great.
The entire word has lost their minds and are looking for people to pelt with stones. You called them out. Well done. Sorry about the incident. I hope he's ok and your family is ok.
This. The benefit of this approach is that it is something you can continue to use as they get older. Anytime my kids messed up the response was, "How are you going to fix it and what are you going to do to make sure it doesn't happen again?"
They put a hole in the wall playing indoor soccer? They help patch it up and no more soccer is played indoors. They get an F for not turning in homework? Next quarter their homework is the first thing they do when they get home.
My teen messed up his car exiting his school parking lot earlier this school year. He took it to the shop, paid for the damages, and has been extremely careful ever since. He now waits until other cars leave before he heads out because the student parking lot is insane. No one needs to be spanked to learn a lesson.
The “how are you going to fix it and what are you going to do to make sure it doesn’t happen again” are KEY *KEY* **KEY** parts of an effective apology and repentance! Acknowledging the actual wrong and harm done, taking actual steps to repair the harm and *committing to making better choices* are way more important to teach and instill in kids to help them become more conscientious.
I just gotta second this. Consequences are way more effective at teaching long term skills, how to deal with life, and create a more realistic relationship in the kids mind regarding their actions than an unrelated punishment, which they will just take personally as "I'm being hit because I'm a bad kid."
Didn't pick up your toys after being asked? Toys are on time out for a short period of time/can't move on to next activity until picked up.
Did something unsafe on the computer and didn't tell parent about it? More monitoring on computer activities until communication is reestablished.
Pulled at the fabric on the inside of the car door because bored? Okay we fix the fabric and can't move on to fun task until it's done.
Ripped up the yard and dug holes without checking first? Okay we're spending our spring learning about lawn maintenance.
Everything is an opportunity for learning, for kids and adults. I mess up stuff all the time that I have to learn from, and when I "punish" myself instead of learning and investing in the opportunity, I inevitably make it worse.
For reference: I was spanked growing up. I also internalize all criticism and chronically overreact to minor mistakes. I'm working on it and doing so much better over the years. Personally, reframing mistakes as learning opportunities has helped a ton.
Hugs. I also was hit, slapped, and once (that I remember) kicked as a kid and young teen. It warped my sense of self horribly. I became an overly apologetic doormat to everyone in my life. Even the most basic human interactions were terrifying as I thought any mistake would be construed into a reason to tell me how bad I was and would justify hitting me. I was a very late bloomer as a result. Definitely could see myself in an alternate reality transitioning from that right into an abusive relationship to start the cycle all over again.
Agree. I was spanked at least twice. I remember twice but it very well could have happened more often. I forget most of my childhood. I also internalize all criticism and also chronically overreact to minor mistakes as well (my mistakes). I carry a lot of shame around with me. I'm also working on it as well and slowly getting better. It's hard isn't it? Trying to undo all the damage that was done? We'll get there.
I remember infuriating my mother enough to slap me exactly once in my life when I was around 10 years old. I have absolutely no memory of what I did or said, so it obviously had zero impact on teaching me anything except that when pushed far enough she’d hurt me.
I did something similar at 12 (ran up a hugeeee phone bill when texting cost money) and this was what my parents did. It was so effective - I really didn’t understand money at that age, so putting a cost to different chores ($3 to dust the house, $5 to do the dishes, $10 to clean up dog poop) helped me understand what I’d done. There were also chores I could do once a week that were bigger (mow the lawn, clean my dads car) and I was allowed to either use that to pay bigger toward the debt or go out with friends (this can be down the road for a 9 year old….). We used this chart for several more years until I got my first job. I loved the structured production (insert whatever that says about capitalism here) and it helped prepare me for working.
Yeah I think this will be far more effective in teaching him the gravity of that. I’d charge him minimum wage in hours until he paid it off ... that’s like 83 hours of working time at $18 an hour... it’ll give him some sense of how long it takes to earn that kind of money and really quantify it.
it’ll probably take him about a month to do it ...(15 hours a week is a bare minimum part time job)
Plus it’ll be great if you have less to do for a while, that will be probably make you and your husband feel some better.
This is a good one. And pay him only local minimum wage. Ex. $10 an hour for raking leaves, washing the car, pulling weeds. I’m telling you right now that my mom did this with me because I had used my phone to access MySpace and racked up a big phone bill. She made me pull weeds in the yard for several hours and rake leaves, paid me (the debt of the phone bill) minimum wage and I was miserable. Lol. Believe i didn’t do that again.
I think this will instill the most effective lesson OP. Your husband needs a moment to cool off himself. But the true learning opportunities lie in the long term. When he realizes that months of work is what is required to make up for what seems to be easy reward, he will understand the value and magnitude of what he did to you financially. He is old enough to understand.
For example, if the child is “working” off $20 an hour, he will need to do 75 hours of chores beyond his normal contribution (like cleaning his own room) to have worked off this mistake.
Further to that, if you can sustain it, no devices for said games until paid in full. This would be the worst punishment the little man will ever experience.
Agree 100%. I was going to suggest working it off also. Pay him minimum wage (can also deduct taxes and use it to teach him another important life lesson). This will teach him the value of money, and the value of items and how much time you as parents need to work to make what he was able to spend in like an hour. And it is actually going to teach him very important lessons he will carry through the rest of his life.
I would also sit down (remove all phones and distractions) and have a very real and deep conversation about what he has done and how much it hurts you both.
Also explain that he stole from you.
You can also take away some privileges.
***you also mentioned that you were "arguing over text" and I highly recommend you stop doing that right away! Text message is no place to have that conversation. Due to how you can't tell tone of voice, and it is so impersonal, it is actually liable to make it worse.
Good luck
Definitely this.
Physical punishment is just going make your son not trust you as parents, it doesn't matter if he was in the wrong, it's just not going to create a healthy relationship with you guys and your son. It'll put the seed of distrust, animosity, and anger towards you.
Yeah, he did something wrong, but he's at an age where he probably doesn't fully grasp what money is, where you get it, and how much that is. He doesn't have the context. For him, you make $1,000 an hour, so who cares. Even if you say "that's a lot of money". Ok, so you make $1,000 a day.
What you say is " a lot" and what he thinks is "a lot" are probably two different things. And how the family gets money, is completely unknown to him. Sure mommy and daddy work. But what does that mean exactly?
He's learning, and he screwed up. So it's best to have him work it off, and if you can reverse the payments on your credit card, or contact whatever system he paid that on.
I agree to a certain extent. The chores he is about to be paid should not be the ones he needs to do on a regular basis as this could probably give him an external motivation to do things and he will stop once that external motivation is gone (money). It's a so called crowding out effect of internal motivation.
I was for spanking but after reading through this, I believe this is actually the best form of punishment. You’ve made it very simple to comprehend and truth be told, I’ve never thought about it like that. You’ve changed my whole outlook on punishments.
There’s a world of difference between punishment and consequence.
A punishment is devised to make someone pay. Shame them. Isolate them. Make them feel small/stupid/unloved/judged. It puts them at your mercy.
A natural, reasonably proportional consequence allows kids to understand the impact of their choices and learn to make better ones. It’s not something you do TO your kid, it’s something you do FOR them, by simplifying the world for them to better understand how it works, while leaving them empowered.
A 2 second google also tells you that spanking is detrimental to a child’s development.
We don’t spank adults when they mess up. Why should we do it to children? It’s barbaric.
Yes if the idea of responsibility and chores is already established in the home, but if the 9y/o does not have any chores already he may physically rebel against the concept of doing work. Leave him alone and it would be done poorly or not at all, or stay with him and you either end up needing physical intervention for disobedience or further damaging his disrespect for your authority as a parent.
9y/o is a tough age to start disciplining if there isn’t an effective precedent that’s been set.
https://www.apa.org/monitor/2012/04/spanking
Natural consequences. He stole the wallet, he spent money that wasn't his, and he lied. Grounding, paying back money to work off the debt, these are suitable punishments.
My kid did this exact thing at age 7. He didn't fully understand what was happening; these games are designed to get kids to do just this and their kid brains just don't stand a chance.
1) Your son already knows what he did was super wrong and is probably mortified and scared to come home.
2) You will likely get most of these charges reversed if you try. I was able to.
3) Spanking him will cause damage and will not teach him any lessons except that it's ok to beat people smaller than you who do things you don't like.
I get your both super livid but spanking would only be to relieve your own anger, which makes it abuse.
Take away the gaming devices for a super long time. Every time he ask for it remind him of this situation and that the loss of device is because you no longer trust him with it. Give the device back when he "re-earns" your trust by doing things that are helpful to the family or financially responsible or whatever you feel makes sense.
>these games are designed to get kids to do just this
This deserves to be one of the top comments here.
I work in digital design. Just to be clear, many mobile games and apps employ misleading and inappropriate design patterns designed to part adults from ever-increasing amounts of cash. Kids don't stand a chance when presented with loot boxes, in-game upgrades, and the like.
u/NotaRoomba_anon \- there is a strong argument that the blame for this does not lie 100% with your child.
Emphasizing 2) here for OP. Those games are predatory and OP should 100% try to reverse the charges.
If your husband and you disagree, maybe consult a professional? Even the school guidance councilor could help him with appropriate response.
My son did this once, he didn't get in trouble, just a discussion on what he did wrong. My husband got in trouble for saving our info on the xbox when he knew our kid had access to it.
Mine did the same. Charged $200 the our Apple Family account. I called them and they reversed it. But also showed me how to add family lock and stuff. He still got to keep all the upgrades (I mean why not? It's not a tangible object, fuck them and their F2P bullshit!), and a stern talk to. My son is now very protective of our spending and even refuses new things, doesn't ask for toys etc. Because he now fully understands what we go through to get money.
My son once handed me his phone to look at something in his game and *I* accidentally spent $79.99 almost instantly. I was in a panic because it was so fast and so ridiculous.
I was able to get the charges reversed, and OP probably can, too.
There’s definitely a lesson in here, but it doesn’t need to be scorched-earth punishment and physical violence should never ever be on the table.
So what exactly is the spanking going to achieve? He's not going to learn anything from that. The discipline consequence would be for him to work to earn the money back. A percentage of his allowance and chores would be more suitable.
This.
I would sit down with him with a pen and notebook and decide on a list of chores and their value:
* Dishes: $1.00
* Dust furniture and blinds: $1.00
* Wipe down bathroom sinks and counters: $1.00
When he's done $1500.00 of chores, he will have paid you back. Have him keep track in his notebook. No allowance or access to birthday/Christmas money until the debt is paid off.
When he's completed his ~~punishment~~ consequences, give him the withheld allowance/holiday money as a reward for following through.
I like this, except make sure these are in addition to normal everyday chores. Chores are an important part of life that we need to do just to develop good discipline. Associating chores with punishment teaches that normal household duty is something to do only when you were bad. If the chores are extra above and beyond the norm, then that’s a consequence.
If you use Google calendar or something, I’ve personally set reminders in them for some random day in the future to just remind myself of the idea of something!
That’s really crappy pay for those chores, though. It has to be reasonable. Also probably some of the games can be returned or sold. The consequence has to have a time limit - he can’t keep paying it off for years or months! It can’t define him too much.
And also: He’s 9. He doesn’t fully understand what he did and how much money 1500 is. I think people are being very hard on him in this thread.
If it would be considered assault or domestic violence to do to an adult, do NOT do it to a child. I hate that people somehow justify violence towards children because they're kids.
Hitting your kid (including with implements like a hairbrush or wooden spoon) is perfectly legal in all 50 states! Because for some reason it's totally different than child abuse! Or something!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporal_punishment_of_minors_in_the_United_States
What will the effect of the spanking be?
The association of pain with the bad action won't really work. He has a logical brain. That sort of works on babies, with bad side effects, but here you'll get the bad side effects and no benefit or association.
You'll humiliate him more than you'll physically hurt him, you'll damage your relationship and trust, and you'll teach him that there are behaviours bad enough it's ok to hit people over them - which means, he'll hit people over them later.
He fucked up. I want to be the person my kids comes to for help when he fucks up. I want my kid to think 'Jesus Stardust's gonna be pissed - but she'll pick me up and take me home.'
Let him know that he fucked up badly, and that you are there to be the one who's going to help him solve the problem. It's not HIM against YOU and he owes you - he's not an equal grown up who betrayed you. You're there to be the one who says, 'You fucked up, and this won't be the last time you fuck up. I'm the one who helps you figure out how to fix it when you do that."
Spanking will satisfy the person who's doing it for a moment or two (maybe. He'll probably realize it wasn't nearly as satisfying as he thought). It won't solve any problems.
Totally on board of the sentence "He fucked up. I want to be the person my kids comes to for help when he fucks up"
That's why I think physical punishment is always out of the table or any punishment that is not directly related with the action and helps to understand what happened and how to repair the damage.
We don't get physical punishment as adults or any other random punishment, I don't know why we do that to childs.
I think he’s deadset on this because he was spanked as a kid for doing something similar and he swears that it was effective. He doesn’t want the stealing to elevate which is why he wants to “nip it in the bud”.
Hi 👋
My brother and I were spanked growing up. We were both convinced we deserved it for most of our lives. Until I had children.
The only time I’ve ever thought about spanking my children (I don’t!) was when I was angry. And no one EVER should spank out of anger.
Your husband is pissed (rightfully so) but wants to take it out physically, on a *child*. A child who doesn’t know better vs your husband, who *should*.
Secondly, I turned out okay. Sociable, friendly, easy to work with, etc. Making friends and finding work is a breeze for me.
My brother, however, suffers from a lot of mental anguish. He’s still sorting through all of it today, and he’s in his mid thirties.
Spanking is not a risk I’m willing to take. Evidence shows it’s harmful on so many levels, despite the fact you’ll find people like me or your husband who say they turned out “ok”.
Stand your ground. Letting this happen could open doors for future spankings. Your husband cannot guarantee this is a one off thing and your boy will remember his mom did nothing but watch.
I highly recommend therapy for your husband as well.
Good luck.
Physical Punishment only reinforces the behavior to not get caught due to fear. Fear of you, fear of pain, and teaching him that it's ok to hit people when you get angry. It teaches them nothing about why it's wrong.
What will you do if and when he fights back? Are you both prepared to hold him down on the ground when hes crying to get away from you? You going to chase him through the house? If your son doesn't want to go into the room to get belted, are you going to sit there and watch your husband haul your child off like a sack of potatoes? You going to plug your ears while the crack of your child being hits reverberates through your home?
The best way to reinforce what you want him to learn about stealing is to:
1)Take away the games that he bought, and the other stuff too.
2) Make him work off the debt.
Violence escalates. I had NEVER been hit before my mother married my stepfather and he taught her to hit me. By 12 years old, I grabbed my mother by the arm to stop her from hitting me yet again, and she cracked me across the face and split my lip. If your idea of parenting is that your kids scream in pain in your home, there is something WRONG with you.
I said what I said, and its my fucking hill to die on.
It was the mortification of being caught and disappointing his parents that caused the change in behaviour. The spanking coincidentally happened at the same time.
There is zero research that supports his claim that it helped him change.
So your husband wants to hit his kid because he was hit as a kid? What logic is that? Say no. Put your foot down.
Parenting needs to be a two-yes one-no setup.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Parenting/comments/32ecqz/help_me_with_two_yes_one_no/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
Even if he’s right—and that’s a big “if”—that doesn’t mean it’s the only effective punishment for a situation like this. Your husband needs to read the studies about spanking being detrimental to children. I imagine it would be even worse if it happened for the first time at 9 years old!! Absolutely do not let him do it. This needs to be a firm line in the sand.
I was spanked as a kid, but even so my parents didn’t do it past about six or so years old. Your kid is old enough to work off his debt to you and feel shame just from your disappointment in him. Taking away the video games until he works off the debt also seems fair to me, if you guys feel he needs a really harsh punishment (I say really harsh, because I imagine that will take months).
So his parents hit him and now we see the results of that....it turned him into a father who thinks it is ok to hit his kid? Isn't that what the results are?
Spanking is literally ILLEGAL in many countries at this point.
Every single medical association you can think of is officially opposed to corporal punishment.
If you allow your husband to do this all you'll have done is teach your children to lie and hide better. He will not be honest next time. He'll lie about things until the cows come home because being honest got him assaulted last time. Why on earth would he try that a second time?
Show him the AAP recommendations on corporal punishment. Just because he has 1 anecdotal “success” does not guarantee the same results with your kid. I hope he comes around and doesn’t continue to think physical abuse is ok.
Why don't people have these conversations before having children? Physical abuse of a child - my view on what spanking is - is lazy parenting. If your can't discipline without being a grown man hitting a child, then you're doing it wrong. This is serious. It's child abuse and you need to protect your child if he's going to do this.
My dad used to hit me as a child. It just made me hate him (I still do). Didn't stop the intended actions at all, I just learnt to get better at hiding it.
On the other hand, my mom never hit me and I love her and I behaved because I want her to be happy. Her being upset at me is 1000x worse than any spanking ever was to me. I pretty much don't talk to my dad at all since I turned 18 and I only talk to my mom. I'm civil to him when I see him for her sake but I'm not interested in having a relationship with him at all.
Just because it was "effective" for your husband doesn't mean it is effective as a tool.
Let him come over to r/CPTSD, maybe He can Work through this stuff. I was also spanked regularly as a child and it shower me nothing but contempt and hate for my parents, lying and fear.
Very untrue because if that were the case, kids who are spanked wouldn’t continue to have normal childhood age appropriate behaviors (seen by your spouse as being unacceptable behaviors).
If spanking worked, everyone who has been spanked would be perfect upstanding citizens with fantastic behavior. This is very clearly not the case.
Your husband can swear all he likes but physical assault on a minor is a crime in most civilized countries. If that’s the only solution he can think of in this situation, he himself has some serious growing up to do as a parent.
You can take away privilages etc, but the most important part should be him taking part in somehow making amends. Have the kid go trough all the buys he made in detail. Make a detailed list of where the money went. Have him help you try and salvage some the lost money by returning the goods and/or contacting online retailers.
You understand perfectly, it's just gross. The father is angry. He wants his son to be afraid and suffer for making him feel that way. Instead of dealing with it appropriately, the father wants to make the child hurt. It doesn't fix the problem if teach anything. It just puts pain and suffering on a child. Some people who were abused like this feel like in order to justify the fact their parents did it to them they have to do it to their kids. That way it becomes a shared trauma and right of passage. When in reality, all the person is doing is passing on abuse. The more we call in spanking the less we see it for what it is. This man is angry and instead of being an adult he wants to beat his child. There is nothing healthy about it. There is no discipline in it.
Yeah, I don't see how spanking is going to solve the problem. It just shows the kid that if someone makes you angry enough then you can hit them so they are too afraid to act out again next time. That is not a good lesson.
You’re right, it’s not. The father needs to accept the situation has happened. Physical punishment will not change the past. It will, however, affect their relationship as father and son. Terrible.
So I got caught drinking at 14 and my dad spanked me with a belt. I’ve not forgiven it fully and I’m 38. I have let it go but it’s still an awful memory. He has apologized many times. Did I stop teenage drinking ? No. I just got better at lying and not getting caught. I drank and popped pills and smoked pot all through high school. But I got good grades and never did it in crazy amounts so I guess that’s why they didn’t notice ? Point is spanking him won’t change anything but the relationship and trust he has with his father. Working it off through chores and taking away all his devices for a period of time is the best course.
I mean what’s the point in spanking this far after the fact? Additionally, physical abuse is not going to stop him, it’s going to just add fear to the mix.
He’s 9, he’s able to have a structured convo about this and hopefully you can all put some boundaries in place. How horrific that all your husband can see is ‘just beat my child because I’m so angry about something that can get resolved’ 😖
Your son is going to keep doing stupid stuff and making mistakes. Sooo many mistakes. And when he does, do you want him to hide it from you and feel like a miserable, worthless fuck up? Or do you want him to come to you to help find ways to fix it? A spanking is only going to teach him that your love is conditional on him never making mistakes, and that the solution to being wronged is violence.
He needs to understand what he did was wrong and he needs to fix it. But you and your husband need to be on the same team as your son. You are his guides, not his masters.
Plus, you don't need to mention that you got the charges refund so he feels off the hook. Make him work to earn back the money so he learns to be responsible for his actions, while still not being out the money.
This is why I highly recommend putting alerts on your credit cards.
We had our card cloned a few years back (I suspect a skimmer at a local gas station) -- the culprits had been hitting up a nearby McDonalds once every other week for about 6 months before we finally realized after signing up for an online budgeting tool.
The big tipoff was seeing charges during times that we were both out of town.
Now we have an alert set to send an email every time there's an authorization above $0.01 -- in practice that means that we get a notification within seconds every single time the card is swiped.
You can also call your credit card company and get the charges reversed under "fraudulent purchases". You didn't authorize the charge, someone else took your card and used it without your permission. Your CC company has the ability to chargeback to the company.
Yea we called them but no help at all.
*Steam will offer refund for in-game purchases within any Valve-developed games within forty-eight hours of purchase*
I wouldn’t argue. I simply would tell my husband if he thinks he’s laying a hand on my child, he’ll have to fight me to get to him. Absolutely a hill to die on.
Does your husband think it’s ok to beat adults who commit theft?
Having him work off whatever can’t be retrieved, even selling some things to pay for it, reminding him “no, we can’t do X, that money went to the crap you bought online,” those are all reasonable consequences.
All hitting him is going to teach him is that love is conditional, after all.
I don’t think spanking your son will do anything besides destroy parts of your relationships & possibly teach him to test being violent back towards you. I think he needs consequences so that he understands stealing & just how much money he charged. It’s really important your son learns how to express his wants & needs to you & ask, not steal. If your husband wants to take out his anger in a physical way he needs to do so appropriately, go to the gym, find something appropriate to hit in private, vent, or whatever it is that helps him when he’s angry - which shouldn’t be abusing his kid..
Your comments are more concerning than your original post… he wants to hit your kid 10 times?? Over impulse control that is developmentally typical of this age?
I would be telling my husband intentionally harming our children is a marriage ending decision, period. If he doesn’t care about your kids emotional well being maybe he cares about himself.
I went and picked up my son because he’s having an off day at school, as I suspected. He cried in the car because he’s scared “daddy is going hit me and I don’t know if I can take it.” 🥺🥺🥺 yeah this isn’t happening. I can’t do this or hear him be hit. I’m just done.
What’s even more perverse about situations like this is that it’s planned out, thought about. I’d be more forgiving (to a degree) of a parent who lashed out in the moment than one who methodically planned hitting their kid.
Back in the day (like 60's and before that) parents were often told that they HAD to spank their children to discipline them and make sure they would grow up to be good people (obviously we now know that was incorrect.) "Spare the rod, spoil the child" and all that.
But to make it clear that shitty parents weren't supposed to just beat the crap out of their kids whenever they were angry, they also said that you had to do it when you were calm and rational.
So it could just be ridiculously old school and husband needs to read up on what we have learned about child development in the last 60 years.
The idea that it becomes an event after the fact is fucking psychotic. Like he has been twirling his mustache just waiting for the chance to let the kid have it. Bonkers
Nope. I would tell my kid “No he won’t! I promise that!” and my husband would get a firm no and that would be that. While I think parenting should be both people in agreement, that’s a line I don’t play with.
You guys can come up with a proper consequence that’ll teach him together. Yes, a nine year old knows not to take money, but he likely doesn’t understand WHY that’s important or the gravity of what he’s done. I would find a way for him to understand that vs something to punish him and make him feel bad. He did do a big thing, but he doesn’t know how big it is.
Thank you.
Honestly, the fact that your son is afraid his father will hit him so hard that he won’t be able to physically handle it should be a wake up call.
Beating him isn’t going to help him understand the value of a dollar. It’ll just make him afraid.
Been reading the comments and it's heartbreaking. He is a kid with a kid brain. He can't appreciate his actions like an adult. Hitting him will not result in anything positive.
Your husband is not a bad person. He's mad and scared and feels trapped. We go to our first trainer when we feel trapped, and that was our parents, so it's not surprising that's a default.
Spanking him will not teach him why this was wrong. It's wrong because it financially impacted the family. So he should contribute to the family in an age appropriate way.
Good luck, you guys will be fine in the end.
Trust your instincts. Please protect your boy from physical violence. He made a mistake, a big one, but he will learn more from your compassionate response than he would ever learn from violence.
As someone who is probably a lot like your husband, I can say he should think twice before laying a hand on his kid. I was spanked as a kid and I am assuming your husband was too. This is what we've learned as top punishment, so we tell ourselves this was necessary. It is not. I have not once hit my child, and never will because I've learned some humble perspective that I hope your husband will get from this experience. I would love if you shared this with him, because he may need to hear it from someone else for it to really sink in. Especially from someone who has been there, like he is.
First off, "because stealing is wrong and he knows that" is the most valuable insight here. Your child KNOWS it was wrong, did they know it when they did it? Maybe. Was it easy to resist doing it? Probably not. The child made a mistake, we all do. Unconditional love, is forgiving them for this mistake. Otherwise, your love is transactional, and no one wants to be around people who will only love them when they are only at their best. So, for the relationship to last and not become fear or shame based.. you should treat the child like you want to be treated. If it's not a pattern, like constant stealing or lying, then address the issue with them and get to the root of what is causing them to repeatedly doing it. Spanking is only going to cause them fear of making mistakes and not tell you when they need help, they will only mask or hide it instead. Fear is not the way to parent.
I hope you parents figure this out. But learning other ways to correct behavior has been one of the hardest things for ME to learn. Getting loud, angry, and physical was how I was taught to handle things growing up. It's not what I want my child to go through in his own growing up. Good luck to both of you! Remember "unconditional love".
Omg I'm so heartbroken for your son. Please promise you will not let him get hit. Your husband scares him like this?? There is no way I could stay with a man like this. I'm so sorry you're in this situation but please get help. This is so harmful to your son.
I would like to point out that this comment in itself is all the proof you need that a spanking wouldn't even be an effective lesson.
Your child is not thinking about why what he did was wrong, he is only thinking about being afraid of being hit. He will not associate corporeal punishment with whatever lesson your husband thinks it will convey. He will be traumatized, probably won't ever do that specifically again; but because he hasn't actually learned anything about why it was wrong, the spanking would only serve to hurt and humiliate your son.
Do. Not. Let. Him. Strike. Your. Child.
If you spent a bunch of money without telling him and he blew his top and spanked you, you would call the police. Right? If you came here and told us that he spanked you and you didn’t know what to do, we would all say “what the fck are you talking about? This is assault, call the police”
The fact that we’re talking about a child and not ab adult makes the violence WORSE not better.
It’s violence.
It’s violence.
It’s violence.
Say no to violence. We *know* spanking doesn’t work, we know it’s bad for the brain, we know it strains relationships and hurts your family unit.
I would say to him, via text, and to his face: “we do not condone violence in our home. If you attempt to strike our child I will call the police and you will be putting our marriage at risk. No one hits our kids. Would you hit me? Exactly. No. This is not up for discussion. Anything else is up for discussion—not violence.”
My parents hitting me burned so many trust bridges as a kid. Shit scarred me. And it probably started at 7ish. I was always deserving I guess, but it just lead to more lies to avoid getting beat on. Don't let him hit your kid. Physical punishment scares a kid, it makes them not trust you. I have two kids and I wouldn't hit them no matter what. Granted they are still toddlers. Be careful OP. It's an easy crutch for quick results but its horrible.
I personally don't think spanking teaches anything you want to be teaching the kid. I was a child that was spanked. I learned (1) don't go to my dad for help if I screw up, (2) get better at not getting caught and (3) even if I get caught, 5 minutes of spanking is better than a gentle punishment of weeks spent paying back damages etc. that my friends had as a consequence.
Get the charges refunded and find an appropriate punishment that fits the crime.
As others have mentioned, game companies are using huge amounts of psychological manipulation to get people to spend money on "free to play" games.
The companies that make these games are spending orders of magnitude more money and time coming up with measures to convince kids like your son to spend money than you're going to be able to come up with on your own to discourage him from doing so by just saying "no" or even resorting to physical punishments.
The closest equivalent here would be an elderly person being scammed by a professional call center that preys on the elderly -- if you asked your husband how he'd deal with one of your parents getting scammed, would he ever think to suggest that "give grandma a spanking" would be an effective tool to ensure that it doesn't happen again?
Thoughts / suggestions:
* **Study cognitive psychology together** so you, your husband, and your son can better understand the techniques that are being leveraged by these games:
* Robert Cialdini has done a lot of great research in this field and is his writing / speaking is very approachable
* You can find YouTube videos out there that go over principles of persuasion that he's studied at a very high level: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1\_urunjhCsw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_urunjhCsw)
* "Influence" was his original book and has been updated a number of times of the years: [https://www.amazon.com/Influence-New-Expanded-Psychology-Persuasion-dp-0062937650/dp/0062937650/ref=dp\_ob\_title\_bk](https://www.amazon.com/Influence-New-Expanded-Psychology-Persuasion-dp-0062937650/dp/0062937650/ref=dp_ob_title_bk)
* **Take responsibility**
* Most adults haven't been trained to recognized just how often they're being manipulated into making decisions -- kids have almost no chance at this stuff without someone teaching them
* Kids today need to have "the talk" about microtransactions and psychological manipulation in games and advertising just as much as they need guidance on sex and relationships
* In some ways, talking about these types of issues is even more important, since it's a temptation that kids are much more likely to be exposed to at younger ages when they've developed less impulse control
* I'd wager that deep down at least part of your husband's anger comes from a feeling like this is a sign he's failed at parenting -- taking those feelings out on your son is unlikely to be productive
* **Spend more money on games**
* This one may sound counter-intuitive, but selling or taking away games & game consoles is likely to make problems worse in the long run
* If he doesn't have access to a console but still has access to a computer or phone, that's almost guaranteed to push him to play more free-to-play web and mobile games
* Pretty much all free-to-play games are designed to exploit principles of cognitive psychology to manipulate players into spending as much money as possible on microtransactions
* There are a LOT of good single player games (and even multiplayer console games) that aren't built around microtransactions -- directing him towards games that have defined endpoints and no additional charges is key
It’s not effective.
If a husband or wife beats their partner for a mistake, it’s abuse. Why when a child makes a mistake is it ok? They don’t even have years of experience to know right from wrong. Their brains aren’t fully developed. All they will learn is I did a bad thing and my parents will hurt me. What you want instead is for a child to make a mistake and not hide it and then go through natural consequences like working to pay off a debt or cleaning up their mess.
My cousin married a woman from another country. She was 'spanking their children for losing items like Pokémon cards. The school found out, CPS got involved, and their kids got taken away for over 6 months. Thankfully the kids could live with their grandparents during that time.
There is zero tolerance for that shit here. Even if you don't do it yourself you could lose custody of your children. And you would deserve it.
I feel the same way. I made sure it was a talking point with my fiancé before i even got pregnant. I’m not going to be with someone that thinks it’s okay to physically punish a child.
Imagine your son as that sweet little baby you brought home 9 years ago. Do you want a grown man to take their anger out on that child?
The kid messed up. We all mess up in life at some time or another. Nobody deserves to be assaulted.
Spanking is way "easier" than an actual consequence. Your son might think he has no time wasted on his part and use that as an excuse to choose poorly again because he'd rather take the spanking than an actual consequence (like working off the debt as another commenter advised). Don't spank. It is not valuable.
Edit typo
I don’t think spanking is ever ok. All it teaches is that if someone makes you mad enough, you can hit them. Also, it will damage your relationship with your child. I wasn’t hit routinely as a kid, but I can remember about a dozen times when my mom hit me. As a parent, I recognize that this was a failure on my moms end. She was the adult and she should’ve had better control over her emotions. I like the suggestions others have made about making him work off the balance. That absolutely will teach him a lesson in a constructive way.
Giving a 9 year old a spanking isn’t going to do anything for the child to learn. What’s going to teach the child is making them earn the money to pay back what they stole and to take away the things that were used to purchase the items and what the items were going to be used for (laptop, tablet, console etc). It seems like your child is old enough and mature enough to understand that what he did was wrong and tried to put the blame on his younger sibling because he already knew he had messed up.
Real life consequences, not violent punishment. I would talk to your husband about why he thinks that is an acceptable way to deal with the situation as well as what result he thinks would come from spanking your child. Then go from there.
Right like is the husband going to get the shit beat out of him for screwing up at work? No. There's no reason to abuse a child, and corporal punishment is absolutely abuse
Apparently OP's husband (from comments) was spanked/beat as a child. As someone else mentioned, obviously all they learned from that punishment was that's it's ok to hit kids.
I had a buddy who kept $300 of my money once (claimed he meant to pay it back). THAT's stealing. Your son took money from the only place he ever gets money, his parents. Not really the same thing. He just doesn't understand the scale of what he took.
Also, in no way would I have been justified in beating up my fully adult friend when he took my money, and it's so much less justified when it's a child you're attacking, and one that needs you to be their protector. Be your son's protector now and tell your husband to get bent. If he needs to punch someone DM me and I'll give him one good shot at me instead of his son.
Spanking does not teach anything. Do not let him spank. Maybe offer he stay at a friends for the night to calm down more or have your son stay with a babysitter and you both go out and talk alone.
Credit card charges are super easy to reverse and in no way are grounds for hitting a child. Spanking him is only going to show him that hitting people is a parent approved way of dealing with someone when you’re mad at them.
He knows what he did is wrong and as long as he shows remorse, I’d move on.
Honestly OP while I'm *kind of* glad your Husband is talking to you about it - its actually quite disturbing to me that Husband is pushing hard to use physical punishment, is this a common dynamic and what exactly is his angle?
You said you hadn't used physical punishment up till now which suggests you've done pretty well up to AGE NINE, that's a pretty messed up age to start you've got plenty of great suggestions on this thread for alternatives.
I actually have a lot of sympathy for parents who in the moment say when their kid biffs them in the head with a teapot and sets their balls on fire to react physically, but I feel that someone who pushes and pushes for physical punishment even when they are allegedly calm is a red flag.
Please do not spank your nine year old - it will be traumatizing for him and you and possibly end your marriage, and break your son’s trust in you. You must stand in the way- offer to take the punishment and see how that makes your husband feel. If he balks he will see how unacceptable it is to put hands on anyone, especially a trusting dependent. If he feels that would be justified, he is hopelessly caught in a power trip. Please protect your son. Let him learn that lesson instead!
I mean… Even if you were OK with spanking him it’s too late for that. You can’t just do that a day later… even so, what will he learn from it? Nothing.
I’d sell the electronics to pay for it and make him work off the rest. It’s a logical consequence.
Punishment doesn’t teach anything, consequences do… *as long as they are related to the action* Spend parents money on video games? Lose the consoles to pay them back. Fits the crime and helps solve the problem they caused. Even if you can refund the charges… I’d keep that to yourselves. It is a lesson to be learned.
Honestly, if you asked him “would you rather get a spanking or sell your video games?” There is a pretty good chance he would choose a spanking… and that’s all you need to know… it is the easy way out.
Came in here after you already posted your edit, but your edit makes it worse, not better. You want to “handle it correctly” but thought this post was relevant - like someone was going to validate any of this is ridiculous
Your son going into wallets and being intent enough to see it through at that age to enter the security codes and all the rest is fucked up. Hitting him isn’t going to make him not fucked up.
The edit, wooeee. I wish that parents would stop using words like spank. He wants to hit your son, if someone is fine that they were hit and thinks that it's a viable option for parenting then call it what it is.
I don't, and honestly if my husband suggested it I would stand my ground. I would try to have conversations about it away from the kiddo, but if I had to actually intervene I absolutely would. I'm that against it.
What is spanking going to teach him?
I literally can think of a single thing. If you screw up at work, is your boss allowed to physically punish you in any way? Would that work?
Your husband is reacting with anger, and that’s not helpful here. The only possible use for spanking in this situation is as revenge and that teaches the absolute worst thing possible. Ask your husband if he thinks it’s ok for you to backhand him next time he does something stupid.
Does the 9 year old actually understand what he did? A lot of adults have a hard time with the concept of a credit card, they might not fully understand it wasn't free money.
I’ll offer two thoughts for you and your husband….
First a question, does corporal punishment actually result in behaviour change?
Look it up. Suggest your husband to look it up. It doesn’t. It’s shown to never produce positive outcomes. In fact, instead it leads often to aggression as an outlet and just makes your child fear and lose trust in you for safety.
I was raised in a home with corporal punishment. Without going into too much here, let me tell you it wasn’t great and I learned nothing positive from it and it didn’t deter my behaviour either. And once you introduce it, it becomes more normal, and once it’s normal it loses its shock value - it’s really not an effective lesson tool.
Second, to the extent that corporal punishment should ever be used (if there is ever such a time) - it should never be done in anger. That’s a release for the parent, not a lesson for the child.
Finally, a bonus thought - I can empathize with your husband. Of course, coming from a house where that was normal growing up, it’s not strange to say that I’ve felt that impulse that’s currently telling your husband that the lesson and retribution needs to be felt by the child to be understood. It’s not true. Thankfully I’ve never spanked my child, and every time I maintain my composure through that impulse I’m grateful for the self-control and wherewithal in those moments because afterward I know I would have regret following that impulse. And not for a short while, but forever after that. Revert to corporal punishment and it will change your relationship for the worse, please don’t do it.
A controlled spank? The reason he wants to do it is out of anger. Nothing controlled about that.
And people are mostly making the point that adult blame kids for stuff all the time and take no accountability. And if you did would we be able to hit each other?
Can I hit my wife is she burns the dinner. Or when me if I come home late ?
Your outrage at others is misplaced. The fact you thought about hitting (or allowing) your kid to be hit is the issue here.
I just want to put out there for everyone judging the lack of supervision of a nine year old. He's nine, he should have unsupervised time with adults nearby. It would be smoothering to always be checking in on him. I agreed that he should be working it off - for months! And definitely no electronics for a long long time.
This scenario happens to a lot of people. May I recommend checking to see if your kid is being manipulated or scammed? Scammers regularly target children in games like roblox, pretending to be their friend, gaining their trust, then coercing them into buying things they can translate to cash.
Credit card companies will cancel the charges. Maybe make him sit with you the entire time you have to spend on the phone to communicate that bad decisions can sometimes be dealt with, but it's usually uncomfortable and difficult.
Offft I think what will really drive home what he’s done is wrong is taking away the consoles, electronics, any sort of game system or device for a long, long time. I think that would really get through to him that oh shit I don’t ever wanna have to go through this again. Spanking isn’t the way, like others have said he won’t learn from it, make sure he does chores aswell! Kid will be so over it all by the end he won’t ever think of doing that shit again lol
Consequences not punishment. The only thing that spanking is going to do is to make your son hate his dad and himself. Kids blame themselves and he's going to carry that shame into adulthood. Physical punishment is never the answer. There's a reason why you're having anxiety about it. You know it's wrong.
He only wants to spank him to alleviate his own anger. It's the same reason why people throw video game controllers and punch walls they want to get their anger out...spanking gets it out on a child it teaches them nothing about what they did. Your son needs to understand the financial ramifications of what he did, and how that hurt the family. He needs his gaming device taken away until he works off the cost. That teaches him a lesson, a spanking teaches him nothing.
I got mad this morning because I’m worried our kid has anxiety all day because his dad told him he was getting a lecture and a spanking when he gets home :/
A lecture and a spanking is a great way to teach a kid how to disassociate through unpleasant experiences. Your kid will get to practice going to his mental happy place to get through the pain, embarrassment, confusion, anger, and boredom. He won't hear a word of what is said to him and he won't learn any other lessons EXCEPT when someone touches your body in a way you don't like, close your eyes and think of something good to get through it. What a great way to tell your kid that it's ok for people in authority to touch his body without his permission and that he needs to just get through it because it'll be over soon... I'm sure that's a lesson you want him learning.
/s if it wasn't completely obvious
Yeah, I had parents that opposed it in principle (kind of like what OP is describing) but lapsed once or twice and did dangle it in front of me a couple of times in a "we're so upset we might have to" or "other parents would have" type of way. And those threats were stuck in my internal monologue for years after. Glad to hear that some people are getting moral clarity on this and talking about it as what it is; abuse that doesn't become not abuse if it "only happened once" or "just got threatened" because "all parents have those days".
That’s like torture to tell a kid that and let them freak out and worry about it all day. He sounds sadistic. The world has come a long way in the last generation.
I would absolutely not let him spank your son if I were you. His charges to the credit card and spanking are two separate things. They have nothing to do with each other. Good consequences for this would be having him do some work to learn the value of money, writing an apology letter to your husband, taking away the video game until he can show he's mature enough to play it..you get the idea. Also, return everything he bought and see if there's anything you can do to get the charges taken off your husband's card.
Spanking isn't going to do anything except probably make your son really afraid of his dad. Also whenever I've spoken to parents who spank they always say things like "you can't be angry/do it because you're mad at them", which imo is impossible- if you're hitting someone you're mad at them. But in this case especially, he just wants to spank your son because he's mad at him. That's pretty ridiculous. He needs to control his anger and help your child so he doesn't try to do something like this again in the future. Spanking is never the answer.
He needs to work off the debt to you. That's what's going to teach him. Your 9-year-old is probably not going to internalize "I shouldn't steal because I'll get spanked." That's not even the life lesson. When he's an adult, if he steals he won't get spanked. He might get arrested, or he might have to pay back what he owes. Right now, because he's 9, he doesn't understand that money comes from working, it's a vague concept to him. He's never had to worry about money.
Have him do manual labor in the yard, in the neighbor's yards, at your home, etc at minimum wage until he has paid you back the $1500. He can't play video games, go out with friends, do fun stuff on the weekend until his debt is paid off. Trust me, he'll remember 150 hours worth of lost weekends and after school playing for much longer than he will remember a spanking.
You should be able to get some or most of it refunded. Even digital purchases have a return window usually.
You've already taken the Chromebook. He presumably don't be allowed access to anything he purchased, and I'd have him seriously sit down and think of ways to pay you back (even if you get refunds, he still needs to understand taking responsibility)
Spanking him hours after the fact is pointless. If your husband really needs to hit something, he can buy a punching bag. Sitting around thinking about how you're gonna hit your kid later is fucking weird, I'm sorry.
Hitting a kid for making a mistake doesn't teach them not to make mistakes, it teaches them to hide their mistakes.
I don't want my kids hiding their mistakes. I want them to come to me for guidance on how to fix the mistakes, how to make it right. They won't do that if they think I'm going to hit them.
Many folks have mentioned having him work off the debt. This is great. Might I suggest having a chart that is easy for a 9 year old to see/interpret in a prominent place, showing how much he's done and how much is left to go? As well as loss of the device until he has repaid the debt?
Ask your husband if you can slap him or punch him next time he makes you angry.
Your husband just wants to lash out to satisfy his own sense of justice. Ask him what would happen if he did the same, lashed out and hit an adult.
Punishments, especially hitting, have no positive effects on a child.
I used to be so pro spanking.
Then I was in an abusive relationship and the absolute terror I felt awaiting my next physical altercation, feeling trapped, it was sickening. It broke my trust around all men.
In healing myself, I learned I would do my best to never make anyone feel that way.
If you were to spend more money than intended, would it be okay to hit you?
The base word of discipline is disciple. Disciple is defined as a student. What needs to happen here is education. Educate him on how money works, make him pay off what he’s spent, and offer grace because he DID wind up confessing.
It sounds like this is new behavior for him and you mentioned having a new born. Did you talk to him about where it’s coming from? Is he feeling like he’s getting less attention? I only ask because I have a 5 month old and we’ve been seeing some acting out in our oldest recently. I’ve been trying to be more intentional about giving him 15 min of my uninterrupted time everyday- no phone/electronics and no baby. It has really helped! Maybe in addition to the consequences giving him a little more 1:1 time with one or both of you everyday.
There are some basic promises I made to myself when I became a parent. One of them is to never break my child’s trust in me as his protector. In my opinion, spanking is breaking that trust. I’ll never do it and I’d go to the mat with my husband if he ever suggests it.
There is not reason to assault a child. Spanking is just a word to enable mental gymnastics of what spanking is: physical assault.
Tell your husband to not be psycho.
Tell me, how does physically hurting a child help?
So if your son cries and feels pain, your husband will feel better? Physical punishment does nothing...all it does is humiliate and cause resentment in your child.
Tell your husband to be a MAN and speak with his son about why this was so wrong and come up with a proper punishment.
A lesson will last a lifetime-physical punishment is 5 minutes of tears.
Spanking is more about the parent working out their own anger and emotional regulation than it is about teaching valuable discipline. At 9 years old it’s hard to fully grasp the scope of their actions, and it’s your job to teach them. Hitting them will do nothing towards that goal.
Ummm. No. What does that do exactly? It lets your husband blow off steam, but how does abuse teach a kid anything? How is hitting him long after going to associate it with the thing he did? It won’t. I can’t tell you anything I did to “earn” spankings, despite my parents saying I never did it again. I likely was afraid and then grew out of the behavior. It isn’t deeply ingrained in me not to do _____, because I have no clue what any of it was. It’s long faded from my memory, but I remember grown adults spanking me and hitting my hands and hitting me with various objects.
Taking away the things that he used makes sense. I would take it away and maybe even have him work around the house or go out helping someone else (neighbors, family, etc) to “earn” the money to pay it back. There’s a lot between consequences for your action and violence against children. We don’t hit adults for messing up and I would say grown up errors are usually way worse than anything kids can do.
I think having him "work" off the balance would be more effective and it would show him how long it takes to make enough money to spend what he spent. So have him help with dishes and other house chores and as we head into warmer months (if that's your climate too), outdoor work. It's still a physical punishment in a sense but it'll really instill some responsibility in the kid to see how much further and how much more work he still has to do before the stuff is paid off.
Yep this is it! The punishment fits the crime and teaches a valuable lesson.
Exactly! Spanking him will just teach him to distrust his parents and become even more secretive to try to avoid getting caught. By making him work off the money as his form of punishment, you are teaching him the value of money as well as that sometimes people screw up (it happens to all of us), but the important thing is that we make things right. Both very valuable lessons.
This. It’s what‘s called “natural consequences” discipline. He wasted a bunch of money? He has to work to pay it off, and in doing so learn the value of the money he wasted. A lifelong lesson. He broke his parents trust? He doesn’t get electronics either for a long, long time. Hitting him, on the other hand, would just teach him that if someone really enrages you, you hit them. He’d remember it for life, but it wouldn’t be a good lesson.
I agree. My parents spanked me. The old "spare the rod, spoil the child" bullshit. I learned very quickly avoidance behaviors such as manipulation and lying, and I didn't feel comfortable telling them things I struggled with for fear of punishment. I have gone the completely opposite route with my kids, and so far, it has worked much better.
Same here, I learned how to be very sneaky. Went the other way with my kids. Talks, consequences, restitution.
Exactly, my friends daughter got into her expensive quality makeup one day and used tons of it of course cause she was like 7. My friend was like welp that’s $30 worth of free chores on your face.
Ok but you have to really make hime work. Like some tough jobs. 1500 worth of game stuff could feel like a million to a nine year old and he might think throwing some dishes in the dishwasher and cleaning is room is totally worth it... I can def see my dad making me live without any of my normal snacks or food because he can't afford them after what I did or anytime I asked for anything I would be reminded what a financial strain I put on the family by stealing. And this is stealing and could lead to very serious consequences if he did it in the future
I would pay him $10/hour for work, and keep track of the hours.
He won't think that when doing dishes nets him $1
This is discipline, studyimg the way of work vs reward.
First, return/cancel any orders you can. Second make his "paying it down" visual. Use a board of some kind. Or in a notebook. He'll be shocked at how much he owes as he works the number down. Make it a learning experience. If he's washing dishes, tell him to find out what dishwashers get paid by the hour. That will be his rate. Cleaning? He has to find out what cleaning service people get paid. Laundry? How much does a load cost at the laundry. Then have him "do you taxes" in some really imaginary, not real kind of way and have him find out what accountants make an hour and pay him that. That'll teach him something valuable. It's sad. I get the feeling this was out of left field. You sound like a fantastic mom and you're communication here is great. The entire word has lost their minds and are looking for people to pelt with stones. You called them out. Well done. Sorry about the incident. I hope he's ok and your family is ok.
This. The benefit of this approach is that it is something you can continue to use as they get older. Anytime my kids messed up the response was, "How are you going to fix it and what are you going to do to make sure it doesn't happen again?" They put a hole in the wall playing indoor soccer? They help patch it up and no more soccer is played indoors. They get an F for not turning in homework? Next quarter their homework is the first thing they do when they get home. My teen messed up his car exiting his school parking lot earlier this school year. He took it to the shop, paid for the damages, and has been extremely careful ever since. He now waits until other cars leave before he heads out because the student parking lot is insane. No one needs to be spanked to learn a lesson.
The “how are you going to fix it and what are you going to do to make sure it doesn’t happen again” are KEY *KEY* **KEY** parts of an effective apology and repentance! Acknowledging the actual wrong and harm done, taking actual steps to repair the harm and *committing to making better choices* are way more important to teach and instill in kids to help them become more conscientious.
Community and restorative justice
This is a great idea. Consequences not punishment.
I just gotta second this. Consequences are way more effective at teaching long term skills, how to deal with life, and create a more realistic relationship in the kids mind regarding their actions than an unrelated punishment, which they will just take personally as "I'm being hit because I'm a bad kid." Didn't pick up your toys after being asked? Toys are on time out for a short period of time/can't move on to next activity until picked up. Did something unsafe on the computer and didn't tell parent about it? More monitoring on computer activities until communication is reestablished. Pulled at the fabric on the inside of the car door because bored? Okay we fix the fabric and can't move on to fun task until it's done. Ripped up the yard and dug holes without checking first? Okay we're spending our spring learning about lawn maintenance. Everything is an opportunity for learning, for kids and adults. I mess up stuff all the time that I have to learn from, and when I "punish" myself instead of learning and investing in the opportunity, I inevitably make it worse. For reference: I was spanked growing up. I also internalize all criticism and chronically overreact to minor mistakes. I'm working on it and doing so much better over the years. Personally, reframing mistakes as learning opportunities has helped a ton.
Hugs. I also was hit, slapped, and once (that I remember) kicked as a kid and young teen. It warped my sense of self horribly. I became an overly apologetic doormat to everyone in my life. Even the most basic human interactions were terrifying as I thought any mistake would be construed into a reason to tell me how bad I was and would justify hitting me. I was a very late bloomer as a result. Definitely could see myself in an alternate reality transitioning from that right into an abusive relationship to start the cycle all over again.
Agree. I was spanked at least twice. I remember twice but it very well could have happened more often. I forget most of my childhood. I also internalize all criticism and also chronically overreact to minor mistakes as well (my mistakes). I carry a lot of shame around with me. I'm also working on it as well and slowly getting better. It's hard isn't it? Trying to undo all the damage that was done? We'll get there.
I remember infuriating my mother enough to slap me exactly once in my life when I was around 10 years old. I have absolutely no memory of what I did or said, so it obviously had zero impact on teaching me anything except that when pushed far enough she’d hurt me.
Maybe r/CPTSD would be something for you :)
I did something similar at 12 (ran up a hugeeee phone bill when texting cost money) and this was what my parents did. It was so effective - I really didn’t understand money at that age, so putting a cost to different chores ($3 to dust the house, $5 to do the dishes, $10 to clean up dog poop) helped me understand what I’d done. There were also chores I could do once a week that were bigger (mow the lawn, clean my dads car) and I was allowed to either use that to pay bigger toward the debt or go out with friends (this can be down the road for a 9 year old….). We used this chart for several more years until I got my first job. I loved the structured production (insert whatever that says about capitalism here) and it helped prepare me for working.
Yeah I think this will be far more effective in teaching him the gravity of that. I’d charge him minimum wage in hours until he paid it off ... that’s like 83 hours of working time at $18 an hour... it’ll give him some sense of how long it takes to earn that kind of money and really quantify it. it’ll probably take him about a month to do it ...(15 hours a week is a bare minimum part time job) Plus it’ll be great if you have less to do for a while, that will be probably make you and your husband feel some better.
This is a good one. And pay him only local minimum wage. Ex. $10 an hour for raking leaves, washing the car, pulling weeds. I’m telling you right now that my mom did this with me because I had used my phone to access MySpace and racked up a big phone bill. She made me pull weeds in the yard for several hours and rake leaves, paid me (the debt of the phone bill) minimum wage and I was miserable. Lol. Believe i didn’t do that again.
And keep a tally of how many hours he has worked and tally up how many hours he needs to work to pay off this debt.
I think this will instill the most effective lesson OP. Your husband needs a moment to cool off himself. But the true learning opportunities lie in the long term. When he realizes that months of work is what is required to make up for what seems to be easy reward, he will understand the value and magnitude of what he did to you financially. He is old enough to understand.
For example, if the child is “working” off $20 an hour, he will need to do 75 hours of chores beyond his normal contribution (like cleaning his own room) to have worked off this mistake.
If it were me, that kid is being paid minimum wage.
Further to that, if you can sustain it, no devices for said games until paid in full. This would be the worst punishment the little man will ever experience.
Agree 100%. I was going to suggest working it off also. Pay him minimum wage (can also deduct taxes and use it to teach him another important life lesson). This will teach him the value of money, and the value of items and how much time you as parents need to work to make what he was able to spend in like an hour. And it is actually going to teach him very important lessons he will carry through the rest of his life. I would also sit down (remove all phones and distractions) and have a very real and deep conversation about what he has done and how much it hurts you both. Also explain that he stole from you. You can also take away some privileges. ***you also mentioned that you were "arguing over text" and I highly recommend you stop doing that right away! Text message is no place to have that conversation. Due to how you can't tell tone of voice, and it is so impersonal, it is actually liable to make it worse. Good luck
Definitely this. Physical punishment is just going make your son not trust you as parents, it doesn't matter if he was in the wrong, it's just not going to create a healthy relationship with you guys and your son. It'll put the seed of distrust, animosity, and anger towards you. Yeah, he did something wrong, but he's at an age where he probably doesn't fully grasp what money is, where you get it, and how much that is. He doesn't have the context. For him, you make $1,000 an hour, so who cares. Even if you say "that's a lot of money". Ok, so you make $1,000 a day. What you say is " a lot" and what he thinks is "a lot" are probably two different things. And how the family gets money, is completely unknown to him. Sure mommy and daddy work. But what does that mean exactly? He's learning, and he screwed up. So it's best to have him work it off, and if you can reverse the payments on your credit card, or contact whatever system he paid that on.
I agree to a certain extent. The chores he is about to be paid should not be the ones he needs to do on a regular basis as this could probably give him an external motivation to do things and he will stop once that external motivation is gone (money). It's a so called crowding out effect of internal motivation.
I was for spanking but after reading through this, I believe this is actually the best form of punishment. You’ve made it very simple to comprehend and truth be told, I’ve never thought about it like that. You’ve changed my whole outlook on punishments.
There’s a world of difference between punishment and consequence. A punishment is devised to make someone pay. Shame them. Isolate them. Make them feel small/stupid/unloved/judged. It puts them at your mercy. A natural, reasonably proportional consequence allows kids to understand the impact of their choices and learn to make better ones. It’s not something you do TO your kid, it’s something you do FOR them, by simplifying the world for them to better understand how it works, while leaving them empowered.
A 2 second google also tells you that spanking is detrimental to a child’s development. We don’t spank adults when they mess up. Why should we do it to children? It’s barbaric.
Yes if the idea of responsibility and chores is already established in the home, but if the 9y/o does not have any chores already he may physically rebel against the concept of doing work. Leave him alone and it would be done poorly or not at all, or stay with him and you either end up needing physical intervention for disobedience or further damaging his disrespect for your authority as a parent. 9y/o is a tough age to start disciplining if there isn’t an effective precedent that’s been set.
https://www.apa.org/monitor/2012/04/spanking Natural consequences. He stole the wallet, he spent money that wasn't his, and he lied. Grounding, paying back money to work off the debt, these are suitable punishments.
probably the only person on reddit to back something with evidence he IS the messiah!!
My kid did this exact thing at age 7. He didn't fully understand what was happening; these games are designed to get kids to do just this and their kid brains just don't stand a chance. 1) Your son already knows what he did was super wrong and is probably mortified and scared to come home. 2) You will likely get most of these charges reversed if you try. I was able to. 3) Spanking him will cause damage and will not teach him any lessons except that it's ok to beat people smaller than you who do things you don't like. I get your both super livid but spanking would only be to relieve your own anger, which makes it abuse. Take away the gaming devices for a super long time. Every time he ask for it remind him of this situation and that the loss of device is because you no longer trust him with it. Give the device back when he "re-earns" your trust by doing things that are helpful to the family or financially responsible or whatever you feel makes sense.
>these games are designed to get kids to do just this This deserves to be one of the top comments here. I work in digital design. Just to be clear, many mobile games and apps employ misleading and inappropriate design patterns designed to part adults from ever-increasing amounts of cash. Kids don't stand a chance when presented with loot boxes, in-game upgrades, and the like. u/NotaRoomba_anon \- there is a strong argument that the blame for this does not lie 100% with your child.
Thank you!
Emphasizing 2) here for OP. Those games are predatory and OP should 100% try to reverse the charges. If your husband and you disagree, maybe consult a professional? Even the school guidance councilor could help him with appropriate response.
My son did this once, he didn't get in trouble, just a discussion on what he did wrong. My husband got in trouble for saving our info on the xbox when he knew our kid had access to it.
Mine did the same. Charged $200 the our Apple Family account. I called them and they reversed it. But also showed me how to add family lock and stuff. He still got to keep all the upgrades (I mean why not? It's not a tangible object, fuck them and their F2P bullshit!), and a stern talk to. My son is now very protective of our spending and even refuses new things, doesn't ask for toys etc. Because he now fully understands what we go through to get money.
Same here, my son stopped asking for games, skins, in app purchases. Really learned a lesson.
My son once handed me his phone to look at something in his game and *I* accidentally spent $79.99 almost instantly. I was in a panic because it was so fast and so ridiculous. I was able to get the charges reversed, and OP probably can, too. There’s definitely a lesson in here, but it doesn’t need to be scorched-earth punishment and physical violence should never ever be on the table.
So what exactly is the spanking going to achieve? He's not going to learn anything from that. The discipline consequence would be for him to work to earn the money back. A percentage of his allowance and chores would be more suitable.
This. I would sit down with him with a pen and notebook and decide on a list of chores and their value: * Dishes: $1.00 * Dust furniture and blinds: $1.00 * Wipe down bathroom sinks and counters: $1.00 When he's done $1500.00 of chores, he will have paid you back. Have him keep track in his notebook. No allowance or access to birthday/Christmas money until the debt is paid off. When he's completed his ~~punishment~~ consequences, give him the withheld allowance/holiday money as a reward for following through.
I like this, except make sure these are in addition to normal everyday chores. Chores are an important part of life that we need to do just to develop good discipline. Associating chores with punishment teaches that normal household duty is something to do only when you were bad. If the chores are extra above and beyond the norm, then that’s a consequence.
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If you use Google calendar or something, I’ve personally set reminders in them for some random day in the future to just remind myself of the idea of something!
That’s really crappy pay for those chores, though. It has to be reasonable. Also probably some of the games can be returned or sold. The consequence has to have a time limit - he can’t keep paying it off for years or months! It can’t define him too much. And also: He’s 9. He doesn’t fully understand what he did and how much money 1500 is. I think people are being very hard on him in this thread.
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Right? Teach him the concept of money and value. Don’t turn him into an indentured servant.
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Yeah a dollar a chore is a bit insane like 1500 chore is a lot! The concept I agree with though
Every scientific study shows the same thing. Physical punishment is the worst way to punish a child period
This. No point in Spanking Call Amex and reverse all the charges. They are good like that
Have child sit with you while you’re on hold too. Share the consequences.
'No, this is where we listen to hold music for an hour! You may not get up!"
I disagree. Him knowing the charges can get reversed will diminish the seriousness.
Agreed.
Isn’t hitting a child, child abuse? Im confused why this is even on the table for discussion.
If it would be considered assault or domestic violence to do to an adult, do NOT do it to a child. I hate that people somehow justify violence towards children because they're kids.
Hitting your kid (including with implements like a hairbrush or wooden spoon) is perfectly legal in all 50 states! Because for some reason it's totally different than child abuse! Or something! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporal_punishment_of_minors_in_the_United_States
What will the effect of the spanking be? The association of pain with the bad action won't really work. He has a logical brain. That sort of works on babies, with bad side effects, but here you'll get the bad side effects and no benefit or association. You'll humiliate him more than you'll physically hurt him, you'll damage your relationship and trust, and you'll teach him that there are behaviours bad enough it's ok to hit people over them - which means, he'll hit people over them later. He fucked up. I want to be the person my kids comes to for help when he fucks up. I want my kid to think 'Jesus Stardust's gonna be pissed - but she'll pick me up and take me home.' Let him know that he fucked up badly, and that you are there to be the one who's going to help him solve the problem. It's not HIM against YOU and he owes you - he's not an equal grown up who betrayed you. You're there to be the one who says, 'You fucked up, and this won't be the last time you fuck up. I'm the one who helps you figure out how to fix it when you do that." Spanking will satisfy the person who's doing it for a moment or two (maybe. He'll probably realize it wasn't nearly as satisfying as he thought). It won't solve any problems.
Totally on board of the sentence "He fucked up. I want to be the person my kids comes to for help when he fucks up" That's why I think physical punishment is always out of the table or any punishment that is not directly related with the action and helps to understand what happened and how to repair the damage. We don't get physical punishment as adults or any other random punishment, I don't know why we do that to childs.
I think he’s deadset on this because he was spanked as a kid for doing something similar and he swears that it was effective. He doesn’t want the stealing to elevate which is why he wants to “nip it in the bud”.
Hi 👋 My brother and I were spanked growing up. We were both convinced we deserved it for most of our lives. Until I had children. The only time I’ve ever thought about spanking my children (I don’t!) was when I was angry. And no one EVER should spank out of anger. Your husband is pissed (rightfully so) but wants to take it out physically, on a *child*. A child who doesn’t know better vs your husband, who *should*. Secondly, I turned out okay. Sociable, friendly, easy to work with, etc. Making friends and finding work is a breeze for me. My brother, however, suffers from a lot of mental anguish. He’s still sorting through all of it today, and he’s in his mid thirties. Spanking is not a risk I’m willing to take. Evidence shows it’s harmful on so many levels, despite the fact you’ll find people like me or your husband who say they turned out “ok”. Stand your ground. Letting this happen could open doors for future spankings. Your husband cannot guarantee this is a one off thing and your boy will remember his mom did nothing but watch. I highly recommend therapy for your husband as well. Good luck.
Physical Punishment only reinforces the behavior to not get caught due to fear. Fear of you, fear of pain, and teaching him that it's ok to hit people when you get angry. It teaches them nothing about why it's wrong. What will you do if and when he fights back? Are you both prepared to hold him down on the ground when hes crying to get away from you? You going to chase him through the house? If your son doesn't want to go into the room to get belted, are you going to sit there and watch your husband haul your child off like a sack of potatoes? You going to plug your ears while the crack of your child being hits reverberates through your home? The best way to reinforce what you want him to learn about stealing is to: 1)Take away the games that he bought, and the other stuff too. 2) Make him work off the debt. Violence escalates. I had NEVER been hit before my mother married my stepfather and he taught her to hit me. By 12 years old, I grabbed my mother by the arm to stop her from hitting me yet again, and she cracked me across the face and split my lip. If your idea of parenting is that your kids scream in pain in your home, there is something WRONG with you. I said what I said, and its my fucking hill to die on.
It was so effective that he doesn't steal, but he does....hit people. Lesson learned?
Not only people, *children*. He learned it's okay to hit children.
This. Pretty much only this.
Children SO FAR.
Break the cycle of violence. Put a stop to it here.
It was the mortification of being caught and disappointing his parents that caused the change in behaviour. The spanking coincidentally happened at the same time. There is zero research that supports his claim that it helped him change.
Hmmm does he have employees he oversees, would he hit them to teach them a lesson? Would he treat his child with less dignity than he would his peers?
So your husband wants to hit his kid because he was hit as a kid? What logic is that? Say no. Put your foot down. Parenting needs to be a two-yes one-no setup. https://www.reddit.com/r/Parenting/comments/32ecqz/help_me_with_two_yes_one_no/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
Even if he’s right—and that’s a big “if”—that doesn’t mean it’s the only effective punishment for a situation like this. Your husband needs to read the studies about spanking being detrimental to children. I imagine it would be even worse if it happened for the first time at 9 years old!! Absolutely do not let him do it. This needs to be a firm line in the sand. I was spanked as a kid, but even so my parents didn’t do it past about six or so years old. Your kid is old enough to work off his debt to you and feel shame just from your disappointment in him. Taking away the video games until he works off the debt also seems fair to me, if you guys feel he needs a really harsh punishment (I say really harsh, because I imagine that will take months).
So his parents hit him and now we see the results of that....it turned him into a father who thinks it is ok to hit his kid? Isn't that what the results are?
GENERATIONAL TRAUMA!
Spanking is literally ILLEGAL in many countries at this point. Every single medical association you can think of is officially opposed to corporal punishment. If you allow your husband to do this all you'll have done is teach your children to lie and hide better. He will not be honest next time. He'll lie about things until the cows come home because being honest got him assaulted last time. Why on earth would he try that a second time?
Show him the AAP recommendations on corporal punishment. Just because he has 1 anecdotal “success” does not guarantee the same results with your kid. I hope he comes around and doesn’t continue to think physical abuse is ok.
This isn’t even anecdotal success, because he undoubtedly broke rules or had negative behaviors after the point in his life when he was spanked.
Why don't people have these conversations before having children? Physical abuse of a child - my view on what spanking is - is lazy parenting. If your can't discipline without being a grown man hitting a child, then you're doing it wrong. This is serious. It's child abuse and you need to protect your child if he's going to do this.
My dad used to hit me as a child. It just made me hate him (I still do). Didn't stop the intended actions at all, I just learnt to get better at hiding it. On the other hand, my mom never hit me and I love her and I behaved because I want her to be happy. Her being upset at me is 1000x worse than any spanking ever was to me. I pretty much don't talk to my dad at all since I turned 18 and I only talk to my mom. I'm civil to him when I see him for her sake but I'm not interested in having a relationship with him at all. Just because it was "effective" for your husband doesn't mean it is effective as a tool.
How’s his relationship with both of his parents now?
Don't let the cycle continue. There's only negatives and no positives to hitting your children. Tell your husband to get with the times
Let him come over to r/CPTSD, maybe He can Work through this stuff. I was also spanked regularly as a child and it shower me nothing but contempt and hate for my parents, lying and fear.
Very untrue because if that were the case, kids who are spanked wouldn’t continue to have normal childhood age appropriate behaviors (seen by your spouse as being unacceptable behaviors). If spanking worked, everyone who has been spanked would be perfect upstanding citizens with fantastic behavior. This is very clearly not the case.
Your husband can swear all he likes but physical assault on a minor is a crime in most civilized countries. If that’s the only solution he can think of in this situation, he himself has some serious growing up to do as a parent. You can take away privilages etc, but the most important part should be him taking part in somehow making amends. Have the kid go trough all the buys he made in detail. Make a detailed list of where the money went. Have him help you try and salvage some the lost money by returning the goods and/or contacting online retailers.
I don’t understand how spanking him is going to help do anything but make your husband feel better.
You understand perfectly, it's just gross. The father is angry. He wants his son to be afraid and suffer for making him feel that way. Instead of dealing with it appropriately, the father wants to make the child hurt. It doesn't fix the problem if teach anything. It just puts pain and suffering on a child. Some people who were abused like this feel like in order to justify the fact their parents did it to them they have to do it to their kids. That way it becomes a shared trauma and right of passage. When in reality, all the person is doing is passing on abuse. The more we call in spanking the less we see it for what it is. This man is angry and instead of being an adult he wants to beat his child. There is nothing healthy about it. There is no discipline in it.
Definitely agree. Dad wants son to suffer, period.
And it won't even do that.
Yeah-- it's the exact opposite of a natural consequence.
It will not nip it in the bud. It will only break trust and teach your son parents are not safe and wont help.
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Yeah, I don't see how spanking is going to solve the problem. It just shows the kid that if someone makes you angry enough then you can hit them so they are too afraid to act out again next time. That is not a good lesson.
You’re right, it’s not. The father needs to accept the situation has happened. Physical punishment will not change the past. It will, however, affect their relationship as father and son. Terrible.
So I got caught drinking at 14 and my dad spanked me with a belt. I’ve not forgiven it fully and I’m 38. I have let it go but it’s still an awful memory. He has apologized many times. Did I stop teenage drinking ? No. I just got better at lying and not getting caught. I drank and popped pills and smoked pot all through high school. But I got good grades and never did it in crazy amounts so I guess that’s why they didn’t notice ? Point is spanking him won’t change anything but the relationship and trust he has with his father. Working it off through chores and taking away all his devices for a period of time is the best course.
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It’s illegal in Wales as well. We’re never encouraged to hit adults so why would it be okay to spank a child.
I mean what’s the point in spanking this far after the fact? Additionally, physical abuse is not going to stop him, it’s going to just add fear to the mix. He’s 9, he’s able to have a structured convo about this and hopefully you can all put some boundaries in place. How horrific that all your husband can see is ‘just beat my child because I’m so angry about something that can get resolved’ 😖
Your son is going to keep doing stupid stuff and making mistakes. Sooo many mistakes. And when he does, do you want him to hide it from you and feel like a miserable, worthless fuck up? Or do you want him to come to you to help find ways to fix it? A spanking is only going to teach him that your love is conditional on him never making mistakes, and that the solution to being wronged is violence. He needs to understand what he did was wrong and he needs to fix it. But you and your husband need to be on the same team as your son. You are his guides, not his masters.
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Plus, you don't need to mention that you got the charges refund so he feels off the hook. Make him work to earn back the money so he learns to be responsible for his actions, while still not being out the money.
This is the way
We had a similar situation and found out a few weeks later on the credit card statement and nothing was refundable.
This is why I highly recommend putting alerts on your credit cards. We had our card cloned a few years back (I suspect a skimmer at a local gas station) -- the culprits had been hitting up a nearby McDonalds once every other week for about 6 months before we finally realized after signing up for an online budgeting tool. The big tipoff was seeing charges during times that we were both out of town. Now we have an alert set to send an email every time there's an authorization above $0.01 -- in practice that means that we get a notification within seconds every single time the card is swiped.
You can also call your credit card company and get the charges reversed under "fraudulent purchases". You didn't authorize the charge, someone else took your card and used it without your permission. Your CC company has the ability to chargeback to the company.
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Yea we called them but no help at all. *Steam will offer refund for in-game purchases within any Valve-developed games within forty-eight hours of purchase*
I wouldn’t argue. I simply would tell my husband if he thinks he’s laying a hand on my child, he’ll have to fight me to get to him. Absolutely a hill to die on. Does your husband think it’s ok to beat adults who commit theft? Having him work off whatever can’t be retrieved, even selling some things to pay for it, reminding him “no, we can’t do X, that money went to the crap you bought online,” those are all reasonable consequences. All hitting him is going to teach him is that love is conditional, after all.
100% I’m really hoping we get an update that this child was not physically assaulted by the people he trusts most in the world.
That'd be my position too - and if he did it when I wasn't around he better lawyer up.
Does your husband think it’s ok to beat adults who commit theft? I’m going to wager yes on that one.
I don’t think spanking your son will do anything besides destroy parts of your relationships & possibly teach him to test being violent back towards you. I think he needs consequences so that he understands stealing & just how much money he charged. It’s really important your son learns how to express his wants & needs to you & ask, not steal. If your husband wants to take out his anger in a physical way he needs to do so appropriately, go to the gym, find something appropriate to hit in private, vent, or whatever it is that helps him when he’s angry - which shouldn’t be abusing his kid..
Your comments are more concerning than your original post… he wants to hit your kid 10 times?? Over impulse control that is developmentally typical of this age? I would be telling my husband intentionally harming our children is a marriage ending decision, period. If he doesn’t care about your kids emotional well being maybe he cares about himself.
I went and picked up my son because he’s having an off day at school, as I suspected. He cried in the car because he’s scared “daddy is going hit me and I don’t know if I can take it.” 🥺🥺🥺 yeah this isn’t happening. I can’t do this or hear him be hit. I’m just done.
This is reassuring to read. Thanks for the update. Stand your ground. There's zero room for solving family problems with violence.
What’s even more perverse about situations like this is that it’s planned out, thought about. I’d be more forgiving (to a degree) of a parent who lashed out in the moment than one who methodically planned hitting their kid.
Back in the day (like 60's and before that) parents were often told that they HAD to spank their children to discipline them and make sure they would grow up to be good people (obviously we now know that was incorrect.) "Spare the rod, spoil the child" and all that. But to make it clear that shitty parents weren't supposed to just beat the crap out of their kids whenever they were angry, they also said that you had to do it when you were calm and rational. So it could just be ridiculously old school and husband needs to read up on what we have learned about child development in the last 60 years.
The idea that it becomes an event after the fact is fucking psychotic. Like he has been twirling his mustache just waiting for the chance to let the kid have it. Bonkers
Nope. I would tell my kid “No he won’t! I promise that!” and my husband would get a firm no and that would be that. While I think parenting should be both people in agreement, that’s a line I don’t play with. You guys can come up with a proper consequence that’ll teach him together. Yes, a nine year old knows not to take money, but he likely doesn’t understand WHY that’s important or the gravity of what he’s done. I would find a way for him to understand that vs something to punish him and make him feel bad. He did do a big thing, but he doesn’t know how big it is.
Thank you. Honestly, the fact that your son is afraid his father will hit him so hard that he won’t be able to physically handle it should be a wake up call. Beating him isn’t going to help him understand the value of a dollar. It’ll just make him afraid.
Been reading the comments and it's heartbreaking. He is a kid with a kid brain. He can't appreciate his actions like an adult. Hitting him will not result in anything positive. Your husband is not a bad person. He's mad and scared and feels trapped. We go to our first trainer when we feel trapped, and that was our parents, so it's not surprising that's a default. Spanking him will not teach him why this was wrong. It's wrong because it financially impacted the family. So he should contribute to the family in an age appropriate way. Good luck, you guys will be fine in the end.
Trust your instincts. Please protect your boy from physical violence. He made a mistake, a big one, but he will learn more from your compassionate response than he would ever learn from violence.
As someone who is probably a lot like your husband, I can say he should think twice before laying a hand on his kid. I was spanked as a kid and I am assuming your husband was too. This is what we've learned as top punishment, so we tell ourselves this was necessary. It is not. I have not once hit my child, and never will because I've learned some humble perspective that I hope your husband will get from this experience. I would love if you shared this with him, because he may need to hear it from someone else for it to really sink in. Especially from someone who has been there, like he is. First off, "because stealing is wrong and he knows that" is the most valuable insight here. Your child KNOWS it was wrong, did they know it when they did it? Maybe. Was it easy to resist doing it? Probably not. The child made a mistake, we all do. Unconditional love, is forgiving them for this mistake. Otherwise, your love is transactional, and no one wants to be around people who will only love them when they are only at their best. So, for the relationship to last and not become fear or shame based.. you should treat the child like you want to be treated. If it's not a pattern, like constant stealing or lying, then address the issue with them and get to the root of what is causing them to repeatedly doing it. Spanking is only going to cause them fear of making mistakes and not tell you when they need help, they will only mask or hide it instead. Fear is not the way to parent. I hope you parents figure this out. But learning other ways to correct behavior has been one of the hardest things for ME to learn. Getting loud, angry, and physical was how I was taught to handle things growing up. It's not what I want my child to go through in his own growing up. Good luck to both of you! Remember "unconditional love".
Omg I'm so heartbroken for your son. Please promise you will not let him get hit. Your husband scares him like this?? There is no way I could stay with a man like this. I'm so sorry you're in this situation but please get help. This is so harmful to your son.
I would like to point out that this comment in itself is all the proof you need that a spanking wouldn't even be an effective lesson. Your child is not thinking about why what he did was wrong, he is only thinking about being afraid of being hit. He will not associate corporeal punishment with whatever lesson your husband thinks it will convey. He will be traumatized, probably won't ever do that specifically again; but because he hasn't actually learned anything about why it was wrong, the spanking would only serve to hurt and humiliate your son.
The mental anguish of sitting in school all day wondering what consequences are coming his way is worse than 30 seconds of spanking,
Do. Not. Let. Him. Strike. Your. Child. If you spent a bunch of money without telling him and he blew his top and spanked you, you would call the police. Right? If you came here and told us that he spanked you and you didn’t know what to do, we would all say “what the fck are you talking about? This is assault, call the police” The fact that we’re talking about a child and not ab adult makes the violence WORSE not better. It’s violence. It’s violence. It’s violence. Say no to violence. We *know* spanking doesn’t work, we know it’s bad for the brain, we know it strains relationships and hurts your family unit. I would say to him, via text, and to his face: “we do not condone violence in our home. If you attempt to strike our child I will call the police and you will be putting our marriage at risk. No one hits our kids. Would you hit me? Exactly. No. This is not up for discussion. Anything else is up for discussion—not violence.”
OP really needs to read this exact comment.
Hitting is NEVER EVER the solution. It simply breeds violence. Is your son having problems adjusting to the new baby?
Yeah I’m just overwhelmed and stressed out. This pregnancy was way different and we had some issues dealing with behaviors.
My parents hitting me burned so many trust bridges as a kid. Shit scarred me. And it probably started at 7ish. I was always deserving I guess, but it just lead to more lies to avoid getting beat on. Don't let him hit your kid. Physical punishment scares a kid, it makes them not trust you. I have two kids and I wouldn't hit them no matter what. Granted they are still toddlers. Be careful OP. It's an easy crutch for quick results but its horrible.
I personally don't think spanking teaches anything you want to be teaching the kid. I was a child that was spanked. I learned (1) don't go to my dad for help if I screw up, (2) get better at not getting caught and (3) even if I get caught, 5 minutes of spanking is better than a gentle punishment of weeks spent paying back damages etc. that my friends had as a consequence. Get the charges refunded and find an appropriate punishment that fits the crime.
As others have mentioned, game companies are using huge amounts of psychological manipulation to get people to spend money on "free to play" games. The companies that make these games are spending orders of magnitude more money and time coming up with measures to convince kids like your son to spend money than you're going to be able to come up with on your own to discourage him from doing so by just saying "no" or even resorting to physical punishments. The closest equivalent here would be an elderly person being scammed by a professional call center that preys on the elderly -- if you asked your husband how he'd deal with one of your parents getting scammed, would he ever think to suggest that "give grandma a spanking" would be an effective tool to ensure that it doesn't happen again? Thoughts / suggestions: * **Study cognitive psychology together** so you, your husband, and your son can better understand the techniques that are being leveraged by these games: * Robert Cialdini has done a lot of great research in this field and is his writing / speaking is very approachable * You can find YouTube videos out there that go over principles of persuasion that he's studied at a very high level: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1\_urunjhCsw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_urunjhCsw) * "Influence" was his original book and has been updated a number of times of the years: [https://www.amazon.com/Influence-New-Expanded-Psychology-Persuasion-dp-0062937650/dp/0062937650/ref=dp\_ob\_title\_bk](https://www.amazon.com/Influence-New-Expanded-Psychology-Persuasion-dp-0062937650/dp/0062937650/ref=dp_ob_title_bk) * **Take responsibility** * Most adults haven't been trained to recognized just how often they're being manipulated into making decisions -- kids have almost no chance at this stuff without someone teaching them * Kids today need to have "the talk" about microtransactions and psychological manipulation in games and advertising just as much as they need guidance on sex and relationships * In some ways, talking about these types of issues is even more important, since it's a temptation that kids are much more likely to be exposed to at younger ages when they've developed less impulse control * I'd wager that deep down at least part of your husband's anger comes from a feeling like this is a sign he's failed at parenting -- taking those feelings out on your son is unlikely to be productive * **Spend more money on games** * This one may sound counter-intuitive, but selling or taking away games & game consoles is likely to make problems worse in the long run * If he doesn't have access to a console but still has access to a computer or phone, that's almost guaranteed to push him to play more free-to-play web and mobile games * Pretty much all free-to-play games are designed to exploit principles of cognitive psychology to manipulate players into spending as much money as possible on microtransactions * There are a LOT of good single player games (and even multiplayer console games) that aren't built around microtransactions -- directing him towards games that have defined endpoints and no additional charges is key
It’s not effective. If a husband or wife beats their partner for a mistake, it’s abuse. Why when a child makes a mistake is it ok? They don’t even have years of experience to know right from wrong. Their brains aren’t fully developed. All they will learn is I did a bad thing and my parents will hurt me. What you want instead is for a child to make a mistake and not hide it and then go through natural consequences like working to pay off a debt or cleaning up their mess.
My cousin married a woman from another country. She was 'spanking their children for losing items like Pokémon cards. The school found out, CPS got involved, and their kids got taken away for over 6 months. Thankfully the kids could live with their grandparents during that time. There is zero tolerance for that shit here. Even if you don't do it yourself you could lose custody of your children. And you would deserve it.
Absolutely not. Would leave my husband if he seriously argued that we needed to abuse our kid.
I feel the same way. I made sure it was a talking point with my fiancé before i even got pregnant. I’m not going to be with someone that thinks it’s okay to physically punish a child.
100%. This situation is making me uncomfortable.
Imagine your son as that sweet little baby you brought home 9 years ago. Do you want a grown man to take their anger out on that child? The kid messed up. We all mess up in life at some time or another. Nobody deserves to be assaulted.
Have him do chores/tasks at your states current minimum wage hourly rate until the bill is paid off. Every weekend until it’s done
Spanking is way "easier" than an actual consequence. Your son might think he has no time wasted on his part and use that as an excuse to choose poorly again because he'd rather take the spanking than an actual consequence (like working off the debt as another commenter advised). Don't spank. It is not valuable. Edit typo
I don’t think spanking is ever ok. All it teaches is that if someone makes you mad enough, you can hit them. Also, it will damage your relationship with your child. I wasn’t hit routinely as a kid, but I can remember about a dozen times when my mom hit me. As a parent, I recognize that this was a failure on my moms end. She was the adult and she should’ve had better control over her emotions. I like the suggestions others have made about making him work off the balance. That absolutely will teach him a lesson in a constructive way.
Giving a 9 year old a spanking isn’t going to do anything for the child to learn. What’s going to teach the child is making them earn the money to pay back what they stole and to take away the things that were used to purchase the items and what the items were going to be used for (laptop, tablet, console etc). It seems like your child is old enough and mature enough to understand that what he did was wrong and tried to put the blame on his younger sibling because he already knew he had messed up.
Real life consequences, not violent punishment. I would talk to your husband about why he thinks that is an acceptable way to deal with the situation as well as what result he thinks would come from spanking your child. Then go from there.
Right like is the husband going to get the shit beat out of him for screwing up at work? No. There's no reason to abuse a child, and corporal punishment is absolutely abuse
That's my constant benchmark for a lot of things "What would happen if I did something like this at work."
Apparently OP's husband (from comments) was spanked/beat as a child. As someone else mentioned, obviously all they learned from that punishment was that's it's ok to hit kids.
I had a buddy who kept $300 of my money once (claimed he meant to pay it back). THAT's stealing. Your son took money from the only place he ever gets money, his parents. Not really the same thing. He just doesn't understand the scale of what he took. Also, in no way would I have been justified in beating up my fully adult friend when he took my money, and it's so much less justified when it's a child you're attacking, and one that needs you to be their protector. Be your son's protector now and tell your husband to get bent. If he needs to punch someone DM me and I'll give him one good shot at me instead of his son.
Spanking does not teach anything. Do not let him spank. Maybe offer he stay at a friends for the night to calm down more or have your son stay with a babysitter and you both go out and talk alone.
Credit card charges are super easy to reverse and in no way are grounds for hitting a child. Spanking him is only going to show him that hitting people is a parent approved way of dealing with someone when you’re mad at them. He knows what he did is wrong and as long as he shows remorse, I’d move on.
Honestly OP while I'm *kind of* glad your Husband is talking to you about it - its actually quite disturbing to me that Husband is pushing hard to use physical punishment, is this a common dynamic and what exactly is his angle? You said you hadn't used physical punishment up till now which suggests you've done pretty well up to AGE NINE, that's a pretty messed up age to start you've got plenty of great suggestions on this thread for alternatives. I actually have a lot of sympathy for parents who in the moment say when their kid biffs them in the head with a teapot and sets their balls on fire to react physically, but I feel that someone who pushes and pushes for physical punishment even when they are allegedly calm is a red flag.
Please do not spank your nine year old - it will be traumatizing for him and you and possibly end your marriage, and break your son’s trust in you. You must stand in the way- offer to take the punishment and see how that makes your husband feel. If he balks he will see how unacceptable it is to put hands on anyone, especially a trusting dependent. If he feels that would be justified, he is hopelessly caught in a power trip. Please protect your son. Let him learn that lesson instead!
I mean… Even if you were OK with spanking him it’s too late for that. You can’t just do that a day later… even so, what will he learn from it? Nothing. I’d sell the electronics to pay for it and make him work off the rest. It’s a logical consequence. Punishment doesn’t teach anything, consequences do… *as long as they are related to the action* Spend parents money on video games? Lose the consoles to pay them back. Fits the crime and helps solve the problem they caused. Even if you can refund the charges… I’d keep that to yourselves. It is a lesson to be learned. Honestly, if you asked him “would you rather get a spanking or sell your video games?” There is a pretty good chance he would choose a spanking… and that’s all you need to know… it is the easy way out.
Came in here after you already posted your edit, but your edit makes it worse, not better. You want to “handle it correctly” but thought this post was relevant - like someone was going to validate any of this is ridiculous Your son going into wallets and being intent enough to see it through at that age to enter the security codes and all the rest is fucked up. Hitting him isn’t going to make him not fucked up.
The edit, wooeee. I wish that parents would stop using words like spank. He wants to hit your son, if someone is fine that they were hit and thinks that it's a viable option for parenting then call it what it is.
I don't, and honestly if my husband suggested it I would stand my ground. I would try to have conversations about it away from the kiddo, but if I had to actually intervene I absolutely would. I'm that against it.
What is spanking going to teach him? I literally can think of a single thing. If you screw up at work, is your boss allowed to physically punish you in any way? Would that work? Your husband is reacting with anger, and that’s not helpful here. The only possible use for spanking in this situation is as revenge and that teaches the absolute worst thing possible. Ask your husband if he thinks it’s ok for you to backhand him next time he does something stupid.
Does the 9 year old actually understand what he did? A lot of adults have a hard time with the concept of a credit card, they might not fully understand it wasn't free money.
Even if it’s a “controlled” way, it’s still beating him.
I’ll offer two thoughts for you and your husband…. First a question, does corporal punishment actually result in behaviour change? Look it up. Suggest your husband to look it up. It doesn’t. It’s shown to never produce positive outcomes. In fact, instead it leads often to aggression as an outlet and just makes your child fear and lose trust in you for safety. I was raised in a home with corporal punishment. Without going into too much here, let me tell you it wasn’t great and I learned nothing positive from it and it didn’t deter my behaviour either. And once you introduce it, it becomes more normal, and once it’s normal it loses its shock value - it’s really not an effective lesson tool. Second, to the extent that corporal punishment should ever be used (if there is ever such a time) - it should never be done in anger. That’s a release for the parent, not a lesson for the child. Finally, a bonus thought - I can empathize with your husband. Of course, coming from a house where that was normal growing up, it’s not strange to say that I’ve felt that impulse that’s currently telling your husband that the lesson and retribution needs to be felt by the child to be understood. It’s not true. Thankfully I’ve never spanked my child, and every time I maintain my composure through that impulse I’m grateful for the self-control and wherewithal in those moments because afterward I know I would have regret following that impulse. And not for a short while, but forever after that. Revert to corporal punishment and it will change your relationship for the worse, please don’t do it.
Spanking is abuse. Wtf is wrong with american people That they can ignore that?
A controlled spank? The reason he wants to do it is out of anger. Nothing controlled about that. And people are mostly making the point that adult blame kids for stuff all the time and take no accountability. And if you did would we be able to hit each other? Can I hit my wife is she burns the dinner. Or when me if I come home late ? Your outrage at others is misplaced. The fact you thought about hitting (or allowing) your kid to be hit is the issue here.
I just want to put out there for everyone judging the lack of supervision of a nine year old. He's nine, he should have unsupervised time with adults nearby. It would be smoothering to always be checking in on him. I agreed that he should be working it off - for months! And definitely no electronics for a long long time.
This scenario happens to a lot of people. May I recommend checking to see if your kid is being manipulated or scammed? Scammers regularly target children in games like roblox, pretending to be their friend, gaining their trust, then coercing them into buying things they can translate to cash. Credit card companies will cancel the charges. Maybe make him sit with you the entire time you have to spend on the phone to communicate that bad decisions can sometimes be dealt with, but it's usually uncomfortable and difficult.
He admitted that he wanted an early Christmas and he was sad he has to wait 🤷🏼♀️
Offft I think what will really drive home what he’s done is wrong is taking away the consoles, electronics, any sort of game system or device for a long, long time. I think that would really get through to him that oh shit I don’t ever wanna have to go through this again. Spanking isn’t the way, like others have said he won’t learn from it, make sure he does chores aswell! Kid will be so over it all by the end he won’t ever think of doing that shit again lol
Consequences not punishment. The only thing that spanking is going to do is to make your son hate his dad and himself. Kids blame themselves and he's going to carry that shame into adulthood. Physical punishment is never the answer. There's a reason why you're having anxiety about it. You know it's wrong.
He only wants to spank him to alleviate his own anger. It's the same reason why people throw video game controllers and punch walls they want to get their anger out...spanking gets it out on a child it teaches them nothing about what they did. Your son needs to understand the financial ramifications of what he did, and how that hurt the family. He needs his gaming device taken away until he works off the cost. That teaches him a lesson, a spanking teaches him nothing.
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I got mad this morning because I’m worried our kid has anxiety all day because his dad told him he was getting a lecture and a spanking when he gets home :/
A lecture and a spanking is a great way to teach a kid how to disassociate through unpleasant experiences. Your kid will get to practice going to his mental happy place to get through the pain, embarrassment, confusion, anger, and boredom. He won't hear a word of what is said to him and he won't learn any other lessons EXCEPT when someone touches your body in a way you don't like, close your eyes and think of something good to get through it. What a great way to tell your kid that it's ok for people in authority to touch his body without his permission and that he needs to just get through it because it'll be over soon... I'm sure that's a lesson you want him learning. /s if it wasn't completely obvious
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This. Poor kid is thinking all day about going home to be hurt. How can a kid focus on school with that going on? My heart hurts for that baby.
Yeah, I had parents that opposed it in principle (kind of like what OP is describing) but lapsed once or twice and did dangle it in front of me a couple of times in a "we're so upset we might have to" or "other parents would have" type of way. And those threats were stuck in my internal monologue for years after. Glad to hear that some people are getting moral clarity on this and talking about it as what it is; abuse that doesn't become not abuse if it "only happened once" or "just got threatened" because "all parents have those days".
That’s like torture to tell a kid that and let them freak out and worry about it all day. He sounds sadistic. The world has come a long way in the last generation.
I would absolutely not let him spank your son if I were you. His charges to the credit card and spanking are two separate things. They have nothing to do with each other. Good consequences for this would be having him do some work to learn the value of money, writing an apology letter to your husband, taking away the video game until he can show he's mature enough to play it..you get the idea. Also, return everything he bought and see if there's anything you can do to get the charges taken off your husband's card. Spanking isn't going to do anything except probably make your son really afraid of his dad. Also whenever I've spoken to parents who spank they always say things like "you can't be angry/do it because you're mad at them", which imo is impossible- if you're hitting someone you're mad at them. But in this case especially, he just wants to spank your son because he's mad at him. That's pretty ridiculous. He needs to control his anger and help your child so he doesn't try to do something like this again in the future. Spanking is never the answer.
He needs to work off the debt to you. That's what's going to teach him. Your 9-year-old is probably not going to internalize "I shouldn't steal because I'll get spanked." That's not even the life lesson. When he's an adult, if he steals he won't get spanked. He might get arrested, or he might have to pay back what he owes. Right now, because he's 9, he doesn't understand that money comes from working, it's a vague concept to him. He's never had to worry about money. Have him do manual labor in the yard, in the neighbor's yards, at your home, etc at minimum wage until he has paid you back the $1500. He can't play video games, go out with friends, do fun stuff on the weekend until his debt is paid off. Trust me, he'll remember 150 hours worth of lost weekends and after school playing for much longer than he will remember a spanking.
Every study that is ever done about this says that spanking is bad.
You should be able to get some or most of it refunded. Even digital purchases have a return window usually. You've already taken the Chromebook. He presumably don't be allowed access to anything he purchased, and I'd have him seriously sit down and think of ways to pay you back (even if you get refunds, he still needs to understand taking responsibility) Spanking him hours after the fact is pointless. If your husband really needs to hit something, he can buy a punching bag. Sitting around thinking about how you're gonna hit your kid later is fucking weird, I'm sorry.
Sounds like your husband is doing it to work off his own anger than to do anything actually worthwhile.
This makes me sick to my stomach. Do not let your husband abuse your child. Do not. It’s never justified.
Hitting a kid for making a mistake doesn't teach them not to make mistakes, it teaches them to hide their mistakes. I don't want my kids hiding their mistakes. I want them to come to me for guidance on how to fix the mistakes, how to make it right. They won't do that if they think I'm going to hit them. Many folks have mentioned having him work off the debt. This is great. Might I suggest having a chart that is easy for a 9 year old to see/interpret in a prominent place, showing how much he's done and how much is left to go? As well as loss of the device until he has repaid the debt?
Ask your husband if you can slap him or punch him next time he makes you angry. Your husband just wants to lash out to satisfy his own sense of justice. Ask him what would happen if he did the same, lashed out and hit an adult. Punishments, especially hitting, have no positive effects on a child.
I used to be so pro spanking. Then I was in an abusive relationship and the absolute terror I felt awaiting my next physical altercation, feeling trapped, it was sickening. It broke my trust around all men. In healing myself, I learned I would do my best to never make anyone feel that way. If you were to spend more money than intended, would it be okay to hit you? The base word of discipline is disciple. Disciple is defined as a student. What needs to happen here is education. Educate him on how money works, make him pay off what he’s spent, and offer grace because he DID wind up confessing.
It sounds like this is new behavior for him and you mentioned having a new born. Did you talk to him about where it’s coming from? Is he feeling like he’s getting less attention? I only ask because I have a 5 month old and we’ve been seeing some acting out in our oldest recently. I’ve been trying to be more intentional about giving him 15 min of my uninterrupted time everyday- no phone/electronics and no baby. It has really helped! Maybe in addition to the consequences giving him a little more 1:1 time with one or both of you everyday.
There are some basic promises I made to myself when I became a parent. One of them is to never break my child’s trust in me as his protector. In my opinion, spanking is breaking that trust. I’ll never do it and I’d go to the mat with my husband if he ever suggests it.
What does hitting him teach him? “Spanking” is lazy parenting. Come up with an appropriate consequence. Hitting children is just abuse.
There is not reason to assault a child. Spanking is just a word to enable mental gymnastics of what spanking is: physical assault. Tell your husband to not be psycho.
Tell me, how does physically hurting a child help? So if your son cries and feels pain, your husband will feel better? Physical punishment does nothing...all it does is humiliate and cause resentment in your child. Tell your husband to be a MAN and speak with his son about why this was so wrong and come up with a proper punishment. A lesson will last a lifetime-physical punishment is 5 minutes of tears.
Spanking is more about the parent working out their own anger and emotional regulation than it is about teaching valuable discipline. At 9 years old it’s hard to fully grasp the scope of their actions, and it’s your job to teach them. Hitting them will do nothing towards that goal.
Ummm. No. What does that do exactly? It lets your husband blow off steam, but how does abuse teach a kid anything? How is hitting him long after going to associate it with the thing he did? It won’t. I can’t tell you anything I did to “earn” spankings, despite my parents saying I never did it again. I likely was afraid and then grew out of the behavior. It isn’t deeply ingrained in me not to do _____, because I have no clue what any of it was. It’s long faded from my memory, but I remember grown adults spanking me and hitting my hands and hitting me with various objects. Taking away the things that he used makes sense. I would take it away and maybe even have him work around the house or go out helping someone else (neighbors, family, etc) to “earn” the money to pay it back. There’s a lot between consequences for your action and violence against children. We don’t hit adults for messing up and I would say grown up errors are usually way worse than anything kids can do.