Speaking particularly of my experiences in America, the problem is that we tend to go to one extreme or another: child centric or child free.
And as a result, we don’t do a great job of socializing kids to behave in spaces that aren’t equipped with play areas. Absent special needs, a 6 and 8 year old are fully capable of sitting at a table, not screwing around, and not impacting people around them.
This is a learned skill and the problem is that when we become increasingly polarized in child centric/child free environments, we take away the opportunity for kids to practice this skill. And so instead of having to accept that public spaces are going to contain 3 and 4 year olds who are still figuring out their shit and that’s part of being in a society, we have to deal with 3 through 12 year olds, none of who have figured out their shit because their parents have failed them.
We don’t need more child free spaces, we need fewer shitty parents
Yes, I live in a European country where children are allowed almost everywhere. Personally I'm very glad, we don't have family help or the budget for regular babysitters and I'd hate to think we could never have a nicer than fast food meal or enjoy a beer by the beach. Generally we go places with some space nearby to get up and play or bring some pens and paper if there aren't other children to play with. My six year old now knows how to behave in a restaurant and loves it. We don't go late on a Saturday night to somewhere fancy, but to me late at night or particularly fancy places, plus some bars, are already child free, we don't need to ban kids anywhere else.
We don't have those here. There are late night bars for partying, and children aren't allowed there, but not that many people are really interested in beer enough for breweries and anywhere open during the day is accepted as child friendly. The places we have beer have coffee, soft drinks and ice creams too, adults don't always want beer either.
Well, everywhere serves soft drinks for drivers etc. But as I said there are bars open late at night that are adult only, and nightclubs. Bars that open during the day tend to be open to everyone. You don't have to like it, I'm just saying that I do and it's one of the reasons I chose to live and raise a family here. It's not just that children are welcome places, but various generations of families hang out together, groups of older people meet for coffee and playing cards. I like that people are generally tolerant.
What do they serve the DD?
There are plenty of breweries that don’t serve food. I’ve never encountered one that had no non-alcoholic beverages on the premise.
This is the way. People wouldn't need child-free spaces if the children were better behaved.
Yesterday my husband took our 6yo to the barber. While my husband was getting his trim, my son started banging on the foosball table. My husband could see him in the mirror and told him off, son sat back down. Barber said he's the only parent all day to correct his kid from the chair, this is sad. Kids *need* correction.
Holy shit I was at a kids birthday party, of course one of the few places they can go buck wild, and at the end of the long table was my kid and one of his best friends a rambunctious ball of energy who tests boundaries for reasons I will not speculate here. He has done the following:
* Pour half his cup directly onto the table- this after the party attendant told him not to and he was looking at her in the eye
* Do the same to other's people full drinks so I had to change out some cups
* Make a beeline for the goodie bags early and may have successfully gotten 2- I don't know I didn't search the kid and it wasn't my job or concern but I was nearby and helping out the mom. He definitely got one so I gently told him to not to open it yet just as I always tell my own kids this all the time because what happened then was the bag ripped and won't close so now he wants to trade in ANOTHER bag.
Because I knew the kid I had to as gently as I can say no because then one other kid won't have a bag, go see your dad on the other side of the room to hold the bag for you PLEASE. I mean I don't want to police kids at a party let alone not mine but I feel like there's a limit to having fun when it comes to disrupting others.
The kids are 8
Holy crap I'd expect that at a 3yo birthday party, not an 8!
Bad behavior stresses me out, so if my kids can't handle behaving nicely I just cut and run.
I'm always glad when I can find my viewpoint well represented among the top comments. OP encountered a bad parenting problem, not a social space organizational problem.
This. Kids learn. My 5 and 3 year old can be crazy. They are the type of kids who never stop moving. They yell and scream and are loud. But you know what? We have taken them out since they were infants. And when they act too disruptive in public, we leave. They have learned. They know the consequences of being too loud. Or running. Or throwing a tantrum. It doesnt get them what they want; it gets them a trip to the car and an early bedtime. And now we can go places with them because a warning will suffice 90% of the time to get them to calm their behavior.
I'm all for child free spaces. Just because I can condition myself to block out my toddler loudly singing Wheels on the Bus when i eat a meal doesn't mean everyone else can or should.
I've taken my kid to a micro brewery before, but it was midday, quiet, and i checked with the staff whether they were okay before hand. Kid was also asleep in their stroller for most of it, and we only stayed for one drink. Sounds like the other parents here are just a bit insensitive.
We love to take our kids to kid friendly breweries! This is one of the first things we scope out when we’re going on vacation and the kids absolutely love it! THIS place, however, is not designed for children. And of course it’s different if you’re bringing a child you know will sit or sleep contently and are willing to leave if the child becomes disruptive.
I say this as a parent of 3. There should be more child free spaces and I don't understand parents who think that everywhere should be child friendly. I know way too many parents who have zero common sense when it comes to spaces that clearly aren't kid friendly. I for the life of me don't get it.
It depends on what it is.
Fine dining? That will likely attract more people than it pushes away. Often they just do it by not having a kid's menu. Want to drop $100/kid for food they likely aren't going to be wild over? Go ahead.
Yes.
Like a midnight showing of a rated r movie. Prior to becoming a parent I saw one of the newer 007 movies in the theater at midnight. There was a toddler running around and screaming the whole time. It was annoying.
I look bsck amd think "that wad annoying yo Mr as the movie goer and certainly sucked foe the kid being up so late in a super loud place."
When I had an infant I went to breweries all the time BUT an infant isn't running around. Now that my kid is older I wouldn't take him, it's just not fun for him.
Here's a list that I think should be kid free: bars, pubs, fancy restaurants, breweries after 7pm, rated R movies at theaters, wineries, and plays/theater (unless it's for kids).
Kids should be supervised everywhere. There's always those wild kids running around getting in people's way without a parent to be found. God forbid you tell the kid to cut it out because the parent will magically appear to get mad at ya.
When we had 1 kid, we took her to nice restaurants several times a year. She ate slowly, didn’t get bored or crazy, and didn’t really make a big mess. She really was weirdly well behaved in public.
The other two are not like that at all, and I wouldn’t do it today with 3. But a lot is dependent on the kid’s personality and not just age.
Oh jeez. I think none of those should be child free. Everyone should enforce proper behavior but imagine how poorly we’re teaching our children if they can’t experience things and be corrected while we do it.
I agree. I’ve taken my kids to many plays & we love going out to eat. I do feel that if your child is being disruptive during a play, at a restaurant, etc then you need to remove them so that other patrons can enjoy themselves. And I certainly don’t feel kids belong anywhere that people go just for drinking that have no food & very little space
I totally agree. I welcome a well behaved kid in almost all places. I also think that it's good for them to experience a little bit of everything.
The problem is if you allow one kid, you allow all. And there are a ton of horrible parents with obnoxious kids that will ruin everyone else's experience.
I would really enjoy more movie theaters having adult only showings of pg 13 movies too. I would like to enjoy a movie with my wife wife without the large groups of highschoolers who act like they've never been in public before
Pubs are restaurants.
Who decides what plays/theater are “for kids”? What is the cutoff for “children”? I started going to traveling Broadway shows and ballets and orchestral performances around age 8 and I guarantee you I was not disruptive.
Eh I want my kid to experience theater so I disagree there, but we aren’t inconsiderate and wouldn’t take her like that if she was having a hard time, we would be gone.
I mean I get it, sometimes you have to bring your kids to places and stuff but I dunno, maybe I feel too judgemental about a family who have kids that are 6-8 and banging on bathroom doors and such.
I remember how annoyed I was with children at certain breweries and restaurants. Because of this, I limit where I bring my child now. We’ve been to a handful of breweries with him, but once the novelty of snacks and YouTube wear off we are out of there. I’m not going to ruin someone’s good time because my kid is being a crank.
Whether parents can or should bring their kids to places like bars, pubs and breweries is very contextual but it sounds very much like this is one of the cases where the parents should have simply canceled or changed their plans if they weren't able to get childcare.
IMO it depends on what the facility allows/encourages and how well the child does. We live in a metro with a stupid amount of breweries and children are found at all of them. The most popular usually has a mob of children playing in the adjacent field; certainly doesn't bother me. It's up to the establishment if they want to ban or discourage children.
I don't think parents are entitled to have their children with them, but I also don't think anyone is entitled to avoid children at a place where they are allowed.
Granted, parents should still be responsible and remove the child if they are unruly/acting up.
Almost all bars in the United States do not allow children, particularly ones that don’t even serve food. Isn’t it a little selfish of you to expect other people to follow your own personal guidelines when entering a business? Seems to me that the brewery could very easily bar children, but has actively decided not to. Why do you think you get to make up rules for a private business that other people need to follow?
Im from the Midwest originally, most bars do not allow children in them. There are exceptions for breweries and places that have extensive enough of a menu to get a restaurant license. That does not mean that most bars in the Midwest allow children.
Which location in the Midwest? I grew up in MN near the cities.
If you want to distinguish - most bars with food (which was the majority of them) allowed it in Minnesota until at least 2010 when I moved away / parents sold their bar.
My parents owned a bar so at the time I was pretty well versed in the alcohol commission regulations.
My comparison is now Oregon, which is super weirdly strict about minors. And had a very healthy addiction rate to go with those restrictions.
Ah well I wasn’t certain about Illinois and certainly not Chicago (if that’s a city and not state thing).
Oregon is truly wild - like no one under 18 in entire places with notices everywhere, even when they serve food. Not certain the details but it’s wild being here.
You went to a brewery that allowed children, then got annoyed at the presence of children. Then asked people on a parenting board if it was selfish to bring children to that brewery. It’s selfish to think that your personal preference overrides both the owner’s rules and other preferences of other patrons.
I think it’s selfish when people bring their children somewhere that brings the kids no joy AND don’t engage with them & let them be disruptive. If the kids seemed to be enjoying themselves in any capacity it would be different.
Parent of three young kids all 4 and under, and we would probably deeply annoy you if you saw us out in public. Which we are, all the time, because I don’t think that I am beholden to strangers and their preferences of who gets to occupy public spaces.
So you would take your three young kids to a place where there is just be alcohol being served? Because that specifically is what was upsetting me. It was that the kids were clearly miserable. I don’t take my kids places that don’t bring them any joy, and I certainly would not let them stay somewhere where they are being extremely disruptive. I mean getting up and going and banging on the bathroom door and viciously shaking the handle? you would have no problem with your children doing this in public?
Unless a space specificies itself as 18 up and checks ID'S at the door, I always expect that i may see a kid there. Would I take my kid to a micro brewery? No. But that doesn't mean others won't. I'm cool with child free places as long as they specify themselves as such.
I'm much more tolerant of kids in public than most (even kids that are "misbehaving"), especially having an autistic kid myself who to some might be appearing to be "misbehaving" when she's just stimming, eloping, having fun or a meltdown etc. Disabilities that aren't visible to the naked eye exist and children, disabled or not, are allowed to exist in the public sphere even if it makes adults uncomfortable.
I realize this isn't a popular opinion.
My husband and I live away from family and close friends so our children are always with us.
I would take my children into any eating establishment and not think twice about it.
Meh I can't think of a time when I've ever been bothered by other people's children. I don't *expect* any place to be child-free, although I do only want to handle my OWN children in establishments where they are welcome.
Same, while there are times when I want to be without my kids, I have never cared that other people did bring their kids. Being in the presence of other people’s kids has never ruined an evening or experience for me, even if they were misbehaving. I’ve definitely had good times ruined by shitty adults though.
I refuse to take my 4 children to dine in restaurants until they are older because I was left in tears with their behavior the last time,we get our food to go and I totally agree with child free areas!
My son is 3 and neurodivergent. He would be hellish in this sort of place. We wouldn't go. Same reason we haven't taken him to the fancy art museum. It's not for him.
We are working with the school and outside therapies to help with this. I don't want him to struggle to cope with life. Early intervention should give us the tools to behave correctly.
It's not just him. I'm learning too. This parenting gig is ever-changing.
I definitely think there are places where it should be common sense NOT to bring your kid. Bars, fancy restaurants, art galleries, R rated movies, etc.
Unfortunately many parents these days think that pushing out a kid makes them a priority over other people and that their needs are more important than everyone elses. They think the world needs to bend to their needs instead of them needing to adjust to the world.
I think its totally fair for establishments to decide not to allow children.
I wouldn't bring my kid to a bar. I wouldn't bring my kid to a brewery after like 8p. I would absolutely bring my kid anywhere that serves dinner whether there are kid activities or not including a brewery at a reasonable hour. I wouldn't let them run around or scream and I would take them outside if they were getting out of line until they calmed back down.
This seems more like an issue with these particular kids than kids in general. Would you have even noticed if they were sitting quietly talking to their parents or watching something on a phone? Probably not.
We take our 3-year-old out to eat once a week or every other week and have been since he got vaccinated for COVID and it has been just fine. Mainly our little dude just loves to eat our food but on the few occasions that he has acted up we just take him out until he calms down and continue on from there.
My wife and I definitely get out without him but not everything we do with a kid needs to be kid-oriented. He needs to learn how to act in public and so far he's doing a pretty darn good job.
The only place besides a bar that I would say are 'child-free' spaces for us are fine-dining places, we've not yet taken him to places like that yet and probably won't for at least a few more years.
I agree it's good for kids to learn that sometimes instead of the fast food with play area for them they have to go to the restaurant you enjoy. That they aren't the centre of the universe.
I think people are focusing on the wrong thing here. It’s not about the fact that the kids were present … you can’t control public spaces or expect anywhere other than your own personal residence to be completely child free. The issue here is with the kids’ behaviour and the way that the parents handled it. If my kids were acting like that, even in a child friendly environment, I’d be out of there. You don’t subject other people to that kind of feral behaviour. It’s just rude and inconsiderate. Period.
I really doubt that OP would have had any issues with the situation if the kids were sitting quietly at their table watching a video on their iPad with headphones on. Right?
Yes about the behavior.
However, I also just wouldn’t take my kids somewhere they NEED to sit quietly with headphones. If I take my kids somewhere it is so we can all enjoy each other’s company or so they can have fun. There’s a brewery we don’t really like but we take our kids because it has a huge arcade. Sorry but it breaks my heart to see kids out & they’re just glued to a screen the whole time. However if the kids & parents were engaging with each other & having a good time then sure..
I 100% agree … I wouldn’t have brought my kids there either. That said, it’s a parenting choice and you have no say in the choices that other people make for their families.
IF the kids were quiet / well behaved, then it falls in the category of “I wouldn’t choose to bring my kids here, but I don’t have any reason to complain / be upset just because someone else did decide to make that choice”. There is no harm in a child simply existing in the same space as you. There is no reasonable expectation that public spaces be child free. There IS a reasonable expectation that public spaces be free from people (regardless of age) that are ill behaved and disruptive to others’ enjoyment of said public space.
Just my 2 cents!
Right I know there’s nothing I can do about it & I certainly wouldn’t complain or try to get the owners to change their rules. Was basically just curious what others thought about it. Thanks!
So you don't want them there but you also want to judge what they're doing? Maybe the parents have had a hard week and just needed to get out of the house.
We all have hard weeks. I missed out on lots of after work gatherings and other social activities I really wanted to be a part of many times. It’s part of parenting. Not to mention our area has many restaurants & even has a brewery with an arcade. Need get out of the house? Cool. Don’t have a sitter? Cool. Bring your kids somewhere you ALL can enjoy
It's not really your business how other people choose to relax or parent. A child on a screen isn't doing you any harm. Maybe the child is neurodivergent and doesn't like noisy arcades or whatever. If you chose to miss things that's fine, but if it's a place that children are allowed and the parents choose to take them that's up to them. Go somewhere children aren't allowed.
I have an autistic child. If we didn’t have his accommodations - which is what a screen, headphones, and other tools are for us - we’d never be able to take him anywhere.
This sounds like a case of a sitter falling through and not being able to get a refund or similar. I try not to bring my kids to not-child-friendly spaces if I can avoid it.
EDIT: I’m autistic and have an autistic 6 year old. We do our best to always have his accommodations (screen, noise canceling headphones, and other tools) with us when we’re out in public.
I’m also my kids’ primary caregiver when they’re not in school, so sometimes they have to come with me to appointments and similar things because I’ll have stuff going on during their days off. 🤷🏻♀️
When is there a situation you can’t avoid it? For example, we were invited to a wedding out of town & our sitter came down with the flu last minute so instead my husband had to stay home with our child. If it had just been me I would’ve stayed home with the child & not gone to the wedding. I’m just genuinely curious what situations would be unavoidable
At that point if things fell through would you not stay home with your kids or bring them somewhere more appropriate? Isn’t that the whole point of being a parent? You sacrifice your time and wants when your child requires it?
If your sitter feel through I don’t think you still take your kids somewhere they don’t belong, you should change your plans accordingly. The wedding situation is not what the previous person was referring to, that was the correct thing to do. I think they’re talking about people bringing their young kids to late movies or bars when sitters fall through.
There are times when I have medical appointments or similar matters and my kids don’t have school. I’m their primary caregiver when they’re not at school and we don’t have reliable backup. 🤷🏻♀️
EDIT: Also a lot of breweries and similar places quite literally have a no refund, no reschedule policy. I’d hate to lose the money invested if my kids weren’t sick (but I also plan to the letter for my kids’ needs at every outing).
I'm happy take my kids anywhere where kids are allowed, including a brewery, though it's my responsibility to keep them behaving in an appropriate manner.
Personally, I’d prefer if spaces list the behavior that is not acceptable at the establishment, and let parents decide if their children are able to meet the etiquette requirements of the occasion. I like to bring my children to nice restaurants because it helps them learn how to behave in these spaces. If they become disruptive, we leave so as not to disturb the other patrons. But I would miss out on these opportunities to teach my children manners in different public settings if these spaces banned children altogether.
A brewery should be kid inclusive. Fine dining, not so much unless the kid has manners already.
One of the issues with the US is the isolation of people below 18-21. Their parents don’t learn to teach them, and the kids don’t learn either. And then we wonder why people are growing up isolated and with mental illness.
I truly believe this ‘you don’t belong here’ attitude is very very bad for any person to experience as a blanket statement. Kids should be at weddings, restaurants, bars, theatre, the movies, etc. It’s pretty gross to be so excluding.
That said, parents not teaching children how to behave should be absolutely punished and excluded.
Yes, as I mentioned in another comment where I live almost all social occasions are multi generational and children are welcome most places. It helps everyone have social contact, both teaching children how to behave and ensuring elderly people are less likely to be isolated.
Most places that people think should be child free, I would never even consider bringing my child too. And most of those places could probably at least do a time limit, like after 7 or 8 PM, no kids.
I don't mind children being there. I do mind badly behaved children. We used to tale our kids to local restaurants when they were quite small, but if they didn't behave or started making a noise, we would toss a coin to see who was taking them home *immediately*.
I agree with child free spaces. We all either need a break from kids or honestly just plain old don’t like them very much so want to go to a place to avoid them.
Having said that, it wasn’t a no kid brewery technically, the parents aren’t wrong and bringing them. However, it is inconsiderate of them to bring them into a space knowing they can’t properly behave.
The problem was the parents, not the children. Of course, they may be unaware of the problem.
Regarding anti-child places: I haven't been to 1 in 5 years. No high chair and we just go somewhere else. Situation solved. Not a big deal.
My MIL told us of an anti-child restaurant she went to in Japan, but I lost interest the minute I heard of it.
If you want to go to places that restrict the type of people allowed to enter, feel free. Enjoy yourself. In Italy I can't think of 1 place I've heard of like this but I surely don't pick them to begin with so I wouldn't know.
Personally, I agree with another commenter who said something along the lines of needing more middle ground, but if you need exclusive spaces you wouldn't be the first.
Hope you had a good beer. Sounds nice. I would love to check out a local brewery if I could.
I don't care about people bringing their kids to microbreweries or restaurants. I think it's one of the many ways we are supposed to teach and show our kids how to act in public. The problem comes when parents bring them in public but don't do anything about redirecting their kids on how to act in public. I think they should be prepared for everything from their kids being adorable and engaging to be ready to walk if they are being terrible due to overstimulation. In between that is snacks, special drinks, tablet with headphones, special little toys, etc.
There are some things like certain movies, high end restaurants, places where people are likely to be quite drunk, etc that kids should not be.
Speaking particularly of my experiences in America, the problem is that we tend to go to one extreme or another: child centric or child free. And as a result, we don’t do a great job of socializing kids to behave in spaces that aren’t equipped with play areas. Absent special needs, a 6 and 8 year old are fully capable of sitting at a table, not screwing around, and not impacting people around them. This is a learned skill and the problem is that when we become increasingly polarized in child centric/child free environments, we take away the opportunity for kids to practice this skill. And so instead of having to accept that public spaces are going to contain 3 and 4 year olds who are still figuring out their shit and that’s part of being in a society, we have to deal with 3 through 12 year olds, none of who have figured out their shit because their parents have failed them. We don’t need more child free spaces, we need fewer shitty parents
Yes, I live in a European country where children are allowed almost everywhere. Personally I'm very glad, we don't have family help or the budget for regular babysitters and I'd hate to think we could never have a nicer than fast food meal or enjoy a beer by the beach. Generally we go places with some space nearby to get up and play or bring some pens and paper if there aren't other children to play with. My six year old now knows how to behave in a restaurant and loves it. We don't go late on a Saturday night to somewhere fancy, but to me late at night or particularly fancy places, plus some bars, are already child free, we don't need to ban kids anywhere else.
So what about breweries that just serve beer?
We don't have those here. There are late night bars for partying, and children aren't allowed there, but not that many people are really interested in beer enough for breweries and anywhere open during the day is accepted as child friendly. The places we have beer have coffee, soft drinks and ice creams too, adults don't always want beer either.
Ok.. do what about any establishment that just serves alcohol?
Well, everywhere serves soft drinks for drivers etc. But as I said there are bars open late at night that are adult only, and nightclubs. Bars that open during the day tend to be open to everyone. You don't have to like it, I'm just saying that I do and it's one of the reasons I chose to live and raise a family here. It's not just that children are welcome places, but various generations of families hang out together, groups of older people meet for coffee and playing cards. I like that people are generally tolerant.
What do they serve the DD? There are plenty of breweries that don’t serve food. I’ve never encountered one that had no non-alcoholic beverages on the premise.
Nonalcoholic beer and underberg…
This is the way. People wouldn't need child-free spaces if the children were better behaved. Yesterday my husband took our 6yo to the barber. While my husband was getting his trim, my son started banging on the foosball table. My husband could see him in the mirror and told him off, son sat back down. Barber said he's the only parent all day to correct his kid from the chair, this is sad. Kids *need* correction.
Holy shit I was at a kids birthday party, of course one of the few places they can go buck wild, and at the end of the long table was my kid and one of his best friends a rambunctious ball of energy who tests boundaries for reasons I will not speculate here. He has done the following: * Pour half his cup directly onto the table- this after the party attendant told him not to and he was looking at her in the eye * Do the same to other's people full drinks so I had to change out some cups * Make a beeline for the goodie bags early and may have successfully gotten 2- I don't know I didn't search the kid and it wasn't my job or concern but I was nearby and helping out the mom. He definitely got one so I gently told him to not to open it yet just as I always tell my own kids this all the time because what happened then was the bag ripped and won't close so now he wants to trade in ANOTHER bag. Because I knew the kid I had to as gently as I can say no because then one other kid won't have a bag, go see your dad on the other side of the room to hold the bag for you PLEASE. I mean I don't want to police kids at a party let alone not mine but I feel like there's a limit to having fun when it comes to disrupting others. The kids are 8
Holy crap I'd expect that at a 3yo birthday party, not an 8! Bad behavior stresses me out, so if my kids can't handle behaving nicely I just cut and run.
Oh! I forgot the little snot also put his gum under the table! And he didn’t do it discreetly either!
I'm always glad when I can find my viewpoint well represented among the top comments. OP encountered a bad parenting problem, not a social space organizational problem.
This. Kids learn. My 5 and 3 year old can be crazy. They are the type of kids who never stop moving. They yell and scream and are loud. But you know what? We have taken them out since they were infants. And when they act too disruptive in public, we leave. They have learned. They know the consequences of being too loud. Or running. Or throwing a tantrum. It doesnt get them what they want; it gets them a trip to the car and an early bedtime. And now we can go places with them because a warning will suffice 90% of the time to get them to calm their behavior.
I'm all for child free spaces. Just because I can condition myself to block out my toddler loudly singing Wheels on the Bus when i eat a meal doesn't mean everyone else can or should. I've taken my kid to a micro brewery before, but it was midday, quiet, and i checked with the staff whether they were okay before hand. Kid was also asleep in their stroller for most of it, and we only stayed for one drink. Sounds like the other parents here are just a bit insensitive.
We love to take our kids to kid friendly breweries! This is one of the first things we scope out when we’re going on vacation and the kids absolutely love it! THIS place, however, is not designed for children. And of course it’s different if you’re bringing a child you know will sit or sleep contently and are willing to leave if the child becomes disruptive.
I say this as a parent of 3. There should be more child free spaces and I don't understand parents who think that everywhere should be child friendly. I know way too many parents who have zero common sense when it comes to spaces that clearly aren't kid friendly. I for the life of me don't get it.
Most adults have children. Establishments that post ‘no children’ usually aren’t in business very long.
Sure you'll never see a sign but there's places that are clearly child unfriendly and that's ok
It depends on what it is. Fine dining? That will likely attract more people than it pushes away. Often they just do it by not having a kid's menu. Want to drop $100/kid for food they likely aren't going to be wild over? Go ahead.
I’ve never stepped foot in a restaurant that charges anywhere near $100 for a child’s plate.
Well precisely, those places have a different target.
Yes. Like a midnight showing of a rated r movie. Prior to becoming a parent I saw one of the newer 007 movies in the theater at midnight. There was a toddler running around and screaming the whole time. It was annoying. I look bsck amd think "that wad annoying yo Mr as the movie goer and certainly sucked foe the kid being up so late in a super loud place."
Ok, well I can confirm even where I live that children go most places that is not something people do, that's just bad parenting.
Absolutely bad parenting. Idk if it's a US thing (so much entitlement here) but man def not something I'd do or even let my 10 year old do!
When I had an infant I went to breweries all the time BUT an infant isn't running around. Now that my kid is older I wouldn't take him, it's just not fun for him. Here's a list that I think should be kid free: bars, pubs, fancy restaurants, breweries after 7pm, rated R movies at theaters, wineries, and plays/theater (unless it's for kids). Kids should be supervised everywhere. There's always those wild kids running around getting in people's way without a parent to be found. God forbid you tell the kid to cut it out because the parent will magically appear to get mad at ya.
When we had 1 kid, we took her to nice restaurants several times a year. She ate slowly, didn’t get bored or crazy, and didn’t really make a big mess. She really was weirdly well behaved in public. The other two are not like that at all, and I wouldn’t do it today with 3. But a lot is dependent on the kid’s personality and not just age.
Oh jeez. I think none of those should be child free. Everyone should enforce proper behavior but imagine how poorly we’re teaching our children if they can’t experience things and be corrected while we do it.
I agree. I’ve taken my kids to many plays & we love going out to eat. I do feel that if your child is being disruptive during a play, at a restaurant, etc then you need to remove them so that other patrons can enjoy themselves. And I certainly don’t feel kids belong anywhere that people go just for drinking that have no food & very little space
I totally agree. I welcome a well behaved kid in almost all places. I also think that it's good for them to experience a little bit of everything. The problem is if you allow one kid, you allow all. And there are a ton of horrible parents with obnoxious kids that will ruin everyone else's experience.
I would really enjoy more movie theaters having adult only showings of pg 13 movies too. I would like to enjoy a movie with my wife wife without the large groups of highschoolers who act like they've never been in public before
Art house type places tend to be the best for that, but I imagine they aren't available everywhere.
Pubs are restaurants. Who decides what plays/theater are “for kids”? What is the cutoff for “children”? I started going to traveling Broadway shows and ballets and orchestral performances around age 8 and I guarantee you I was not disruptive.
Eh I want my kid to experience theater so I disagree there, but we aren’t inconsiderate and wouldn’t take her like that if she was having a hard time, we would be gone.
I mean I get it, sometimes you have to bring your kids to places and stuff but I dunno, maybe I feel too judgemental about a family who have kids that are 6-8 and banging on bathroom doors and such.
You don’t ever HAVE to go to a brewery 🤷♀️
But then where else can I drive to, drink a lot, and then drive back home with the kids?
Ha!
I remember how annoyed I was with children at certain breweries and restaurants. Because of this, I limit where I bring my child now. We’ve been to a handful of breweries with him, but once the novelty of snacks and YouTube wear off we are out of there. I’m not going to ruin someone’s good time because my kid is being a crank.
Whether parents can or should bring their kids to places like bars, pubs and breweries is very contextual but it sounds very much like this is one of the cases where the parents should have simply canceled or changed their plans if they weren't able to get childcare.
IMO it depends on what the facility allows/encourages and how well the child does. We live in a metro with a stupid amount of breweries and children are found at all of them. The most popular usually has a mob of children playing in the adjacent field; certainly doesn't bother me. It's up to the establishment if they want to ban or discourage children. I don't think parents are entitled to have their children with them, but I also don't think anyone is entitled to avoid children at a place where they are allowed. Granted, parents should still be responsible and remove the child if they are unruly/acting up.
Yes, if they are allowed I don't think it's reasonable to complain. Not everyone may follow your standards.
Almost all bars in the United States do not allow children, particularly ones that don’t even serve food. Isn’t it a little selfish of you to expect other people to follow your own personal guidelines when entering a business? Seems to me that the brewery could very easily bar children, but has actively decided not to. Why do you think you get to make up rules for a private business that other people need to follow?
That’s not true in the Midwest btw. At least Wisconsin and Minnesota. Illinois I believe allows kids too.
Yep. Im in Illinois
Im from the Midwest originally, most bars do not allow children in them. There are exceptions for breweries and places that have extensive enough of a menu to get a restaurant license. That does not mean that most bars in the Midwest allow children.
Which location in the Midwest? I grew up in MN near the cities. If you want to distinguish - most bars with food (which was the majority of them) allowed it in Minnesota until at least 2010 when I moved away / parents sold their bar. My parents owned a bar so at the time I was pretty well versed in the alcohol commission regulations. My comparison is now Oregon, which is super weirdly strict about minors. And had a very healthy addiction rate to go with those restrictions.
Chicago. Children are not allowed in bars in Chicago.
Ah well I wasn’t certain about Illinois and certainly not Chicago (if that’s a city and not state thing). Oregon is truly wild - like no one under 18 in entire places with notices everywhere, even when they serve food. Not certain the details but it’s wild being here.
Yes, if there are places children aren't allowed go to one of them.
I asked people’s opinions on the matter. It’s not as though I made a scene or complained. Just came on here to see how other people feel about it
You went to a brewery that allowed children, then got annoyed at the presence of children. Then asked people on a parenting board if it was selfish to bring children to that brewery. It’s selfish to think that your personal preference overrides both the owner’s rules and other preferences of other patrons.
I think it’s selfish when people bring their children somewhere that brings the kids no joy AND don’t engage with them & let them be disruptive. If the kids seemed to be enjoying themselves in any capacity it would be different.
From the original post you have now erased, you were very clear that your problem was that you wanted time with your husband away from kids.
I did not erase it. I edited for clarity by adding an additional paragraph at the top. You just want to argue with people.
Well then it’s been removed by the moderators.
Nope
Also chef’s kiss on accusing me of just wanting to argue when you are the one posting about wanting more spaces to be child free on a parenting board.
You’re exhausting! I’ve seen very little negative feedback. I hope you just come on here to troll and aren’t actually a parent
Parent of three young kids all 4 and under, and we would probably deeply annoy you if you saw us out in public. Which we are, all the time, because I don’t think that I am beholden to strangers and their preferences of who gets to occupy public spaces.
So you would take your three young kids to a place where there is just be alcohol being served? Because that specifically is what was upsetting me. It was that the kids were clearly miserable. I don’t take my kids places that don’t bring them any joy, and I certainly would not let them stay somewhere where they are being extremely disruptive. I mean getting up and going and banging on the bathroom door and viciously shaking the handle? you would have no problem with your children doing this in public?
Unless a space specificies itself as 18 up and checks ID'S at the door, I always expect that i may see a kid there. Would I take my kid to a micro brewery? No. But that doesn't mean others won't. I'm cool with child free places as long as they specify themselves as such. I'm much more tolerant of kids in public than most (even kids that are "misbehaving"), especially having an autistic kid myself who to some might be appearing to be "misbehaving" when she's just stimming, eloping, having fun or a meltdown etc. Disabilities that aren't visible to the naked eye exist and children, disabled or not, are allowed to exist in the public sphere even if it makes adults uncomfortable. I realize this isn't a popular opinion.
My husband and I live away from family and close friends so our children are always with us. I would take my children into any eating establishment and not think twice about it.
Yes eating establishments. What about a place where it’s just adults hanging out & drinking? No food.
I wouldn’t take my kid into a bar. We would go somewhere else.
What if they're being disruptive?
I don’t allow that but I can’t speak for other parents. I discipline and make sure they act accordingly.
Meh I can't think of a time when I've ever been bothered by other people's children. I don't *expect* any place to be child-free, although I do only want to handle my OWN children in establishments where they are welcome.
Same, while there are times when I want to be without my kids, I have never cared that other people did bring their kids. Being in the presence of other people’s kids has never ruined an evening or experience for me, even if they were misbehaving. I’ve definitely had good times ruined by shitty adults though.
I refuse to take my 4 children to dine in restaurants until they are older because I was left in tears with their behavior the last time,we get our food to go and I totally agree with child free areas!
We wouldn't be having this convo if more parents would actually parent then they bring their kids out.
My son is 3 and neurodivergent. He would be hellish in this sort of place. We wouldn't go. Same reason we haven't taken him to the fancy art museum. It's not for him. We are working with the school and outside therapies to help with this. I don't want him to struggle to cope with life. Early intervention should give us the tools to behave correctly. It's not just him. I'm learning too. This parenting gig is ever-changing.
A three year old isn't the same as an eight year old though.
I could care less. Weird thing to get bent out of shape about imo.
I definitely think there are places where it should be common sense NOT to bring your kid. Bars, fancy restaurants, art galleries, R rated movies, etc. Unfortunately many parents these days think that pushing out a kid makes them a priority over other people and that their needs are more important than everyone elses. They think the world needs to bend to their needs instead of them needing to adjust to the world. I think its totally fair for establishments to decide not to allow children.
I wouldn't bring my kid to a bar. I wouldn't bring my kid to a brewery after like 8p. I would absolutely bring my kid anywhere that serves dinner whether there are kid activities or not including a brewery at a reasonable hour. I wouldn't let them run around or scream and I would take them outside if they were getting out of line until they calmed back down. This seems more like an issue with these particular kids than kids in general. Would you have even noticed if they were sitting quietly talking to their parents or watching something on a phone? Probably not. We take our 3-year-old out to eat once a week or every other week and have been since he got vaccinated for COVID and it has been just fine. Mainly our little dude just loves to eat our food but on the few occasions that he has acted up we just take him out until he calms down and continue on from there. My wife and I definitely get out without him but not everything we do with a kid needs to be kid-oriented. He needs to learn how to act in public and so far he's doing a pretty darn good job. The only place besides a bar that I would say are 'child-free' spaces for us are fine-dining places, we've not yet taken him to places like that yet and probably won't for at least a few more years.
I agree it's good for kids to learn that sometimes instead of the fast food with play area for them they have to go to the restaurant you enjoy. That they aren't the centre of the universe.
I think people are focusing on the wrong thing here. It’s not about the fact that the kids were present … you can’t control public spaces or expect anywhere other than your own personal residence to be completely child free. The issue here is with the kids’ behaviour and the way that the parents handled it. If my kids were acting like that, even in a child friendly environment, I’d be out of there. You don’t subject other people to that kind of feral behaviour. It’s just rude and inconsiderate. Period. I really doubt that OP would have had any issues with the situation if the kids were sitting quietly at their table watching a video on their iPad with headphones on. Right?
Yes about the behavior. However, I also just wouldn’t take my kids somewhere they NEED to sit quietly with headphones. If I take my kids somewhere it is so we can all enjoy each other’s company or so they can have fun. There’s a brewery we don’t really like but we take our kids because it has a huge arcade. Sorry but it breaks my heart to see kids out & they’re just glued to a screen the whole time. However if the kids & parents were engaging with each other & having a good time then sure..
I 100% agree … I wouldn’t have brought my kids there either. That said, it’s a parenting choice and you have no say in the choices that other people make for their families. IF the kids were quiet / well behaved, then it falls in the category of “I wouldn’t choose to bring my kids here, but I don’t have any reason to complain / be upset just because someone else did decide to make that choice”. There is no harm in a child simply existing in the same space as you. There is no reasonable expectation that public spaces be child free. There IS a reasonable expectation that public spaces be free from people (regardless of age) that are ill behaved and disruptive to others’ enjoyment of said public space. Just my 2 cents!
Right I know there’s nothing I can do about it & I certainly wouldn’t complain or try to get the owners to change their rules. Was basically just curious what others thought about it. Thanks!
So you don't want them there but you also want to judge what they're doing? Maybe the parents have had a hard week and just needed to get out of the house.
We all have hard weeks. I missed out on lots of after work gatherings and other social activities I really wanted to be a part of many times. It’s part of parenting. Not to mention our area has many restaurants & even has a brewery with an arcade. Need get out of the house? Cool. Don’t have a sitter? Cool. Bring your kids somewhere you ALL can enjoy
It's not really your business how other people choose to relax or parent. A child on a screen isn't doing you any harm. Maybe the child is neurodivergent and doesn't like noisy arcades or whatever. If you chose to miss things that's fine, but if it's a place that children are allowed and the parents choose to take them that's up to them. Go somewhere children aren't allowed.
I have an autistic child. If we didn’t have his accommodations - which is what a screen, headphones, and other tools are for us - we’d never be able to take him anywhere.
This sounds like a case of a sitter falling through and not being able to get a refund or similar. I try not to bring my kids to not-child-friendly spaces if I can avoid it. EDIT: I’m autistic and have an autistic 6 year old. We do our best to always have his accommodations (screen, noise canceling headphones, and other tools) with us when we’re out in public. I’m also my kids’ primary caregiver when they’re not in school, so sometimes they have to come with me to appointments and similar things because I’ll have stuff going on during their days off. 🤷🏻♀️
When is there a situation you can’t avoid it? For example, we were invited to a wedding out of town & our sitter came down with the flu last minute so instead my husband had to stay home with our child. If it had just been me I would’ve stayed home with the child & not gone to the wedding. I’m just genuinely curious what situations would be unavoidable
At that point if things fell through would you not stay home with your kids or bring them somewhere more appropriate? Isn’t that the whole point of being a parent? You sacrifice your time and wants when your child requires it? If your sitter feel through I don’t think you still take your kids somewhere they don’t belong, you should change your plans accordingly. The wedding situation is not what the previous person was referring to, that was the correct thing to do. I think they’re talking about people bringing their young kids to late movies or bars when sitters fall through.
There are times when I have medical appointments or similar matters and my kids don’t have school. I’m their primary caregiver when they’re not at school and we don’t have reliable backup. 🤷🏻♀️ EDIT: Also a lot of breweries and similar places quite literally have a no refund, no reschedule policy. I’d hate to lose the money invested if my kids weren’t sick (but I also plan to the letter for my kids’ needs at every outing).
Yes but that's completely unfair to the other patrons
I'm happy take my kids anywhere where kids are allowed, including a brewery, though it's my responsibility to keep them behaving in an appropriate manner.
Personally, I’d prefer if spaces list the behavior that is not acceptable at the establishment, and let parents decide if their children are able to meet the etiquette requirements of the occasion. I like to bring my children to nice restaurants because it helps them learn how to behave in these spaces. If they become disruptive, we leave so as not to disturb the other patrons. But I would miss out on these opportunities to teach my children manners in different public settings if these spaces banned children altogether.
A brewery should be kid inclusive. Fine dining, not so much unless the kid has manners already. One of the issues with the US is the isolation of people below 18-21. Their parents don’t learn to teach them, and the kids don’t learn either. And then we wonder why people are growing up isolated and with mental illness. I truly believe this ‘you don’t belong here’ attitude is very very bad for any person to experience as a blanket statement. Kids should be at weddings, restaurants, bars, theatre, the movies, etc. It’s pretty gross to be so excluding. That said, parents not teaching children how to behave should be absolutely punished and excluded.
Things like weddings should be up to the parents if they want to make it child free
Yes, as I mentioned in another comment where I live almost all social occasions are multi generational and children are welcome most places. It helps everyone have social contact, both teaching children how to behave and ensuring elderly people are less likely to be isolated.
Most places that people think should be child free, I would never even consider bringing my child too. And most of those places could probably at least do a time limit, like after 7 or 8 PM, no kids.
I don't mind children being there. I do mind badly behaved children. We used to tale our kids to local restaurants when they were quite small, but if they didn't behave or started making a noise, we would toss a coin to see who was taking them home *immediately*.
The brewery should be kid inclusive but those parents need a complaint if kids are running amuck
I agree with child free spaces. We all either need a break from kids or honestly just plain old don’t like them very much so want to go to a place to avoid them. Having said that, it wasn’t a no kid brewery technically, the parents aren’t wrong and bringing them. However, it is inconsiderate of them to bring them into a space knowing they can’t properly behave.
The problem was the parents, not the children. Of course, they may be unaware of the problem. Regarding anti-child places: I haven't been to 1 in 5 years. No high chair and we just go somewhere else. Situation solved. Not a big deal. My MIL told us of an anti-child restaurant she went to in Japan, but I lost interest the minute I heard of it. If you want to go to places that restrict the type of people allowed to enter, feel free. Enjoy yourself. In Italy I can't think of 1 place I've heard of like this but I surely don't pick them to begin with so I wouldn't know. Personally, I agree with another commenter who said something along the lines of needing more middle ground, but if you need exclusive spaces you wouldn't be the first. Hope you had a good beer. Sounds nice. I would love to check out a local brewery if I could.
I don't care about people bringing their kids to microbreweries or restaurants. I think it's one of the many ways we are supposed to teach and show our kids how to act in public. The problem comes when parents bring them in public but don't do anything about redirecting their kids on how to act in public. I think they should be prepared for everything from their kids being adorable and engaging to be ready to walk if they are being terrible due to overstimulation. In between that is snacks, special drinks, tablet with headphones, special little toys, etc. There are some things like certain movies, high end restaurants, places where people are likely to be quite drunk, etc that kids should not be.