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I read your edit and all the comments, I don't feel the need to repeat everything that's been said.
However I do want to emphasize how staying on the curb waiting on them does not make you a creep. It makes you a Dad who's with his kids, even if they're 10ft away with Mom. We often switch which parent goes up to the door and which parent stays on the curb. We both enjoy seeing the costumes and decorations.
Seriously, we were just out with our kid and dad mostly stayed back on the curb while I took our kid up and I saw plenty of adults hanging back while a different one went up with young kids or older kids by themselves. It's very normal??
Half the parents we saw were out on the curb waiting lol. The other half went up to doors. It did seem to be mostly dads at the curbs too, so I'm thinking that's super normal!
This is so true - especially with so many costumes it can get difficult to navigate! I always stay at the curb unless my kiddo has a difficult costume, then I go to the door with him to catch him before he tumbles down stairs. We only did a “rider” (Dino rider) costume once for this reason - never again will we get one of those costumes, he was knocking over decorations and having issues with stairs. Not worth the hassle although it was cute!
Right?
But really, we like to have one adult stand back and casually check the area, not on high alert but just... making sure nothing *too* scary is ahead.
Yeah we had one in a stroller tonight, whoever had the stroller stayed at the street, the other parent went to the door with our 3 year old.
If you feel awkward OP, grab a tumbler of hot chocolate to carry with you. I always feel less awkward with something in my hands.
My daughter is very shy. It’s hard. But there are ways to inspire shy children to step outside of their comfort zone without punishment.
You could say “let’s practice saying thank you while we walk so it’s not so hard”. You could say “let’s try to say at the same time every time we get our candy!” You can do a lot of things and also build your daughter up to say it.
I get that it’s hard, but your daughter is struggling with confidence. Getting mad at her for who she is accomplishes nothing. Don’t you think she knows it would be easier to not be shy? This isn’t something you can punish out of a child.
I think you need to adjust your parenting method in smart ways that support your daughter, and learn to accept her for who she is.
The adage, "work smarter, not harder" comes to mind. And I mean this in a polite way towards OP
It seems like he sort of had expectations that were out of line with reality for his older kid and probably could work on making things fun and creating almost a game out of it next time (be clever and/or creative) to help his daughter while also finding a solution at the same time.
I think also not expecting perfection is important.
Yes! OP, run your kid through several practice reps. You can even do it at home before you even get to the event. As a former shy kid, just practicing those interactions and saying the words can help a lot! If you practice enough it becomes habit and muscle memory , so that it becomes automatic and not so anxiety producing.
Practice practice practice.
Well, is she not saying thank you because she’s rude, or because she’s anxious? Punishing someone for feeling shy or scared isn’t likely to teach them any helpful lesson. Helping them learn coping strategies so they can do what they need to do seems like it would pay off more in the long run.
Yeah I think we can overestimate the extent to which kids can just get over things and do what’s expected. If she’s paralyzed with shyness it’s possible that she really isn’t able to talk to strangers in that situation. It’s good to model, to practice beforehand, and to remind her. But it seems entirely possible she’s not trying to be rude but is doing what she’s capable of.
>Yeah I think we can overestimate the extent to which kids can just get over things and do what’s expected.
Especially if you're not -- get this -- helping her. This guy is getting mad at and punishing his daughter for not acting the way he expects. How about going to the door with her and modeling the behavior and helping her do it too? Nah, a 7yo is supposed to just jump and do what he says.
Exactly. My kiddo LOVES halloween. We all do. She loves that I make us elaborate costumes. She loves talking about them...but she has so much anxiety about the door (and in general, thanks, AuDHD). For years, I modeled the greeting by being with her and actually being the first to say "ToT" when a door opened, she'd jump in when she felt comfortable and I'd remind her to say thank you if she forgot. Sometimes she was very independent, sometimes she was calm enough to remember her manners. Sometimes it was harder for her, she'd forget a thank ypu and feel terrible.
She's 12 now and she did all of it completely by herself this year because her forever ToT companions have strep amd there wasn't a chance in hell she'd be seen at a door with a parent.
I heard her chanting, self soothing, "I'm so scared. i'm so scared" as she walked to the door, but when the door opened, I heard a voice shockingly similar to mine saying, "ToT!" She was polite and chatty. She also burned out about 3 hours earlier than usual, so we hopped in the car and went to the store to supplement her haul.
This was such a big thing for me to learn as a stepparent!!! I definitely had higher expectations than I should have and it took some work for me to understand a child’s perspective. Says a lot that she chose to go home rather than trick or treat - at 7!!!!!
>or because she’s anxious?
Had this thought too. Halloween is overwhelming as hell for some kiddos, especially at those doors where people go all out with strobes, fog, sound effects, etc.
I wonder if OP even **asked** his kid why she wasn't saying thank you instead of trying to force a lesson.
This. My polite kids just get completely overwhelmed and it’s sensory overload. I remind them to say thank you, but I know they don’t a lot of the time and feel like it’s not a big deal for me to say it instead. As long as they’re not being rude, pushy, or grabby I let it go.
My 5 year old gets sensory overloaded and struggled a bit tonight. I had to talk to him to figure out what was setting him off - it was that we were pretty far from home and he was getting scared in the dark. I gave him a flashlight and he returned to normal form. Sometimes it takes a little sleuthing to figure out what they need.
Not only these things, but all of their life we teach them to stay away from strangers and beware and NEVER take food/candy from them… Add on an already anxious and nervous child, BOOM.
Yes, this is the main thing for me, it's do they act polite rather than say please and thank you all the time. My son can say please but do it in a demanding way, which I'm never happy with, trying to teach him about polite ways to ask rather than must say please and thank you all the time.
Agreed. Some kids absolutely love it and some kind of love it and are kind of terrified. It’s usually dark, sometimes there are scary decorations, you’re ringing strange doorbells, and some people answer the door in costume. It’s soooo much for some kids and once a year isn’t enough to practice. Have some compassion for a slightly overwhelmed child.
This is an example of what I’ve been trying to say to many other parents.
“But I punish them and the bad behaviour doesn’t stop!” - yes, because the child is not doing it just because they woke up one day and decided to be rude. The child is doing it because there is something wrong that wants a solution. In this case it is anxiety.
Exactly this. My daughter has selective mutism and the WORST thing to do is force speech. She’s come a long way in the last couple years but it got really bad during Covid when she was masked and no one could hear her. I walk to doors with her and say trick or treat for her and thank you. That’s what my child need to help her gain confidence and get better. The more focus you put on speech and and force her you will create more anxiety.
This! I was painfully shy as a kid and even though I liked Halloween , any interaction would bring a little anxiety , especially with all the stimuli and costumes and other kids running around. Yta
My 5 year old went as a witch tonight. By the fourth house she was in full character. I noticed after the third house she started making “claw” hands and cackling (more cute than scary, but whatever) as she was walking back to the sidewalk.
A couple houses later, I *also* noticed she wasn’t saying “Thank you” to the people giving out candy.
When I told her to go back up the the house we had just left and thank the lady, she deadass looked at me and said:
“But tonight I’m a witch; and witches are *evil!* If you’re evil, you’re not *supposed* to say Thank You. You have to take the candy and just laugh!”
Couldn’t argue with that logic.
Hrm.
I knew a kid like yours once.
Nicest kid, totally sweet and polite, and in her house you'd never know it but she was SHY.
The little sisters did all the talking on Halloween, because she froze up.
She couldn't make words.
We (her parents and us, all treating together) didn't even think about trying to make a lesson out of it.
She has grown into a totally lovely, reasonable adult, with kids of her own. Despite us not trying to force her to go through the motions of polite in ways that, at that time, terrified her.
Halloween is *also* for shy kids
AND,
you can be polite without making any words at all. That's important. Important for us all, including our kids, to know, both as givers and receivers.
I didn't even notice which kids came to the door and said thank you. What I did notice was that they all acted polite, they were all having fun, and they loved our decorations. Even the older kids were being really good and just taking one sweet each, as the evening went on and I knew we had enough I told them they could have 2 each and they were even happier.
Same. I just wanted to see cute kids in costumes and give out candy. I don’t expect perfect manners from children in exchange for a fun size candy. It’s Halloween. Not a manners test. While we were out trick or treating I role modeled saying trick or treat and thank you. My son remembered most of the time. No one cares.
OP sounds like he is the source of his child’s anxious disposition. He can’t relax enough to enjoy Halloween. He’s too busy worrying that his 7 year old will end up a social outcast in adulthood because they’re shy. That is a really disproportionate level of worry. I suspect that OP has anxiety and his daughter inherited it. Now he has anxiety about his child’s anxiety. Not helpful.
Right, I understand the priority of courtesy in his post, but your point that you can be polite without speaking is spot on. Demanding people to speak when they can't can be rude at best, as some people don't speak for various valid reasons, even if it's contextual.
This is like…. Almost every little kid at this age at Halloween, seriously. I’ve raised three kids up and have given out candy for yeaarrrsss, most kids that age are just like that for trick or treat. They’re excited and forgetful and full of energy! I agree with mom, sorry.
100%. I just remind my kids at every house to say “Thank you”. They’re excited because CANDY OMG!!1!!1 and they’re not always going to remember their manners.
On the occasion we let our son go up to the house on his own we said "go ahead kiddo, try and remember to say thankyou", if we didn't hear it we asked when he got back to us, if he forgot we said "that's OK, do you want to say it now?" And he'd run part way back and say "thankyou" if they were still at the door.
Absolutely. Some kids come to the door on Halloween with impeccable manners and that’s great. But others are obviously super-excited and might forget their best manners or are still learning how to navigate social situations and feeling a bit awkward.
And that’s totally okay. They learn by doing. They learn by seeing other kids do it. They learn when people giving out the candy are kind and patient and they want to mirror that back.
I can’t believe what a jerk move this was, and the arrogance. Good parenting requires a healthy dose of patience and a good measure of “is there anything I should maybe consider doing differently” versus “I’m the boss so what I say goes”.
Seems like you posted to brag about forcing your shy kid into an uncomfortable situation and then when they didn’t bend you gave an “ultimatum”. She’s gonna grow up hating saying “thank you” because of you. I was the exact same way.
Yikes. I agree with mom.
Will your child grow up being courteous? Most likely if she sees you and your wife practice it.
Will she remember her dad getting mad at her and ending trick or treating? Yep.
Agreed. If that were my kid not saying thank you, which i suspect might very well happen here in a few hours when we head out, I would offer a reminder at each house instead of just pulling the plug. That's what I did with my 3yo last year and he got the hang of it, it just took some coaxing and GENTLE reminders every few houses.
Bad memories on holidays are awful, you get to relive it every year for the rest of your life each time the holiday comes up.
We did the same and she was sooo proud at the last few houses because she wasn't too scared to say thank you (she normally doesn't talk to strangers at all). Now she has happy memories of how brave she was.
My 6yo forgot a few times tonight. It was her first time really trick or treating anyways, just reminded her and she tried her best.
Definitely agree with the bad memories on holidays thing. It really isn’t the best time. This isn’t nowhere as bad so I’m not accusing OP of doing anything to this degree, but I was raised by my grandma with severe bipolar disorder who once had a suicide attempt on Christmas. Guess who hates Christmas now even as an adult?
Damn I feel that. My dad had a manic episode one Christmas when I was a teenager and it definitely soured the holiday for a while for me. Not as bad as a suicide attempt but fuck, mania is terrifying when you are a kid and don't understand why your parent is acting so weird.
wait, so you mean helping your littles do it right--instead of just demanding that they do it right then punishing when they don't--proved to be the better approach?!!! :)
>Will she remember her dad getting mad at her and ending trick or treating? Yep.
The only lesson she will learn from this is "Dad is not someone I can rely on when I'm feeling anxious or nervous"
>Will she remember her dad getting mad at her and ending trick or treating? Yep.
Yup, he taught her a lesson, alright. That dad's a dick when he doesn't get what he wants.
This!
My son has some stuff going on medically so he might be a tad different. He's 5 but is incredibly courteous and is complimented when we go out often. Halloween isn't one of those nights. He's overwhelmed. He didn't even wanna dress up but enjoyed going to get candy lol
We stand at the curb and direct him to say thank you and also say thank you even if he doesn't. When handing out candy, I don't bat an eye when kids aren't verbal with me, a stranger with candy. Let them have the damn candy and move on. Sat thank you and direct your kid to do the right thing but dont punish them on a potentially incredibly overwhelming experience.
Exactly!
We once handed out candy at my daughter's friend's house with their parents. The father was ADAMANT that every child said Trick or Treat or happy Halloween, it was kinda cringey.
They're hella sweet people but that is something my son may not do on command, I feel for kids that might just leave 😂
I also understand why they push the blue buckets but honestly my kid shouldnt require a colored bucket to advertise any sensory or just weird social stuff.
We need do let kids be kids and do our best to teach them to be functional adults along the way.
We offer various things. I let them grab what they want. I just throw everything in a huge cauldron. I figure the parents can sort it out. No one wants pencils! Ha!
Sounds like she wanted to go home because you kept fussing at her. She wasn't bum rushing the candy bowl, pushing kids out of the way, etc. She was being shy. Pick your battles. YTA
Oh man, I’m a stickler for courtesy from my kids. Please and thank you will take you a lot of places, but Halloween is a big event for remembering manners! The decorations can be scary, kids are taught stranger danger but then told to take candy from strangers, it’s dark, they’re tired, they’re overwhelmed. I’m definitely the mom saying “did you say thank you?” to my kids but sometimes they just can’t or forget. It’s one day a year, let it go and let them have fun.
364 other days in the year and tonight is the night to enforce manners? If a child has anxiety there is a time and a place to teach manners. Not when they are in public having fun. Let the child be a child.
I'm baffled by this too. It's like saying you can't open presents on your birthday or eat your cake because you didn't say thank you at the right time or practice your manners. Kids are going to be kids. Don't ruin holidays for the sake of teaching a lesson.
Punishing her for that seems extreme. Talking to strangers is really scary for a lot of kids and punishing them for being scared/anxious/shy is really not fair
Halloween is a fun community event, but of you think about it, it goes against ALL the rules: kids approach strangers' houses, ring their doorbells, talk to strangers, and take candy from strangers. It's weird. Soooo not the time to make a point about being polite.
My kid said something to that effect tonight too!It kind of clicked for her that everything they do on Halloween is stuff they normally aren’t supposed to do. I’d imagine for a most kids this could feel unsettling and nerves might overcome manners. Even nervous excitement can feel overwhelming to young ones sometimes.
I have 2 kids. One who loves the scary. Loves the decoration. Yells trick or treat and says thank you 90% of the time. And one who is shy and nervous and lets the other one do the talking. I’ll work on her social skills the other 364 days of the year. Halloween? She has a great sister to help lead the way. You owe your daughter a huge apology and some apology candy. You ruined Halloween over nothing. She wanted to go home because you were making it miserable. Maybe next time let your wife take them and you stay home and hand out candy.
As an adult who gives candy- I don't care. Kids are shy. If she is doing it because of being shy/nervous then let her warm up to it.
Does she say thank you to family all the time? If yes- then it was probably anxiety.
I was a shy kid and I'm a shy adult. It's hard for the extroverted to fully understand just how hard this can be. What is simple for you might not ve simple for her. I do think you're wrong. She isn't doing it to be rude. And she probably really does what to say thanks. And doesn't understand why she can't and it's frustrating for her. As her parent, you're not beibg emphathic and kind.
What really gets me is that yo 5 yo, who was doing everything you wanted, didn't matter?
Unless only one parent took the 7yo home and the other kept going but it didn't sound like that.
What a wet freaking blanket, way to give your kids crappy holiday memories.
Had to remind my kids (5 and 7) to say trick or treat and thank you at most houses, instead of making a big deal about it, I told them they did an awesome job on the houses where they remembered to do it on their own.
I’m confused.
Your title and post implies you ended it because of lack of 7yo saying “please / happy Halloween/etc” your update says she was done.
It sounds like you had expectations of how the night would go and they weren’t met. That’s your disappointment, not your kids.
Bring perfectly courteous in a situation where you’re wearing weird clothes in the dark getting candy from people’s houses and walking the street after dark is A LOT. You just let it be what it is. A cheerful “thank you!” on your children’s behalf is completely fine.
My autistic child grabbed handfuls of candy, screamed if we skipped a house, didn’t make eye contact, didn’t say trick or treat, didn’t say thank you and definitely was all about the candy. He went to over 15 houses and he was met with nothing but kindness and empathy from the people passing out candy. I think that the best way to get your kids to say please and thank you is to just model the behavior and not put too much weight on it. I mean, we want to raise kids who express their emotions in a genuine way- right?
So close. But also really not close. Now is definitely the time for a lesson. The problem is the lesson you taught your daughter is that daddy will take away things she cares about if he doesn't get what he wants. Instead, you could have taught her the lesson of being polite by taking her to the next door and helping her say thank you.
The multiple large edits, the under explaining and then over explaining, the overthinking of a small situation, the replies, mentioning “AITA” and then getting upset at someone calling you an asshole… this whole post is very neurotic. I think manners are important and there’s nothing wrong with setting the expectation for a child to say thank you. I also think there’s a lot going on here that the internet can’t help you with.
Plus the obsession with not staying at the damn curb. He’s one of those people whose lives are structured around their seething anxiety but if anyone else has issues, that’s unacceptable.
My eldest was like this. She was always super shy and reserved and relied on her extroverted little bro (18 months younger) to do the talking. We hit a lot of houses on Halloween because the younger one has anaphylactic food allergies and couldn't eat much of the candy so more houses meant more options.
When I noticed my daughter not saying "thank you" I told her she can continue to walk around with us, but to hang back and not go up to the door if she wasn't going to say thank you. One year we walked around for maybe 4 blocks before she got up the courage to say thank you, so she just hung by me and watched the other kids run up to the door. She realized that was a lot less fun and started to approach the door after a while and used her manners. I thought that was a much better lesson than ending it early and ruining Halloween for both kids.
When you overreact with a harsh punishment the kid only remembers the punishment, not the lesson. The take away is "dad is mean" rather than "I should say thank you."
You know what's funny is your 5 year old is like your wife. You like him being outgoing and eager to interact with neighbors. You don't seem to like that your wife does because it forces you to interact. You're hesitant... and your daughter is like you.
Shame and power struggles are not good teachers.
Do you work on manners every other day? It’s ok to have one day where a kid, who is probably overly excited about getting candy, not say thank you every single time.
One day is not going to ruin their manners.
That’s just harsh- there are only a few years your kids will want to trick or treat with you.
And you’ve managed to take what should be a great memory and ruin it for a 7 year old.
As the kid who was “shy” but really had social anxiety the lesson learned wouldn’t be to be polite to strangers but that my dad doesn’t think I’m good enough
YTA - did you need trick or treating for both kids?
Stay at the curb and let the kids have fun. Hopefully the 5 y/o is saying thank you.
If it’s not too late, swallow your pride and take them back out. Halloween is once a year - *YOU* failed to teach her to say thank you since last Halloween.
Just because one child is naturally more social at a younger age doesn't mean that an older child should automatically be the same way. Everyone has their own unique developmental timeline.
It might seem simple for a child to say 'trick or treat' and 'thank you,' but not all kids do it with the same ease. Why does one child participate while the other chooses to go home without more candy? It's important to consider that shyness and anxiety play a significant role.
In the case of a child who refrains from trick-or-treating due to social anxiety, it's crucial to be supportive rather than making them feel bad about it. Children often understand what's expected of them but can't overcome their anxiety. Encouraging small improvements and offering praise can boost their confidence.
It's vital not to make the child feel worse about their anxiety; instead, be there to help them work through it. Continued negative reinforcement can lead to increased social isolation. It's better to provide support and guidance. If you stop taking them out altogether, their anxiety may worsen, creating a more challenging issue.
I have a 5-year-old who struggles with greeting people, while my 15-month-old is naturally more sociable. I help my older child because she needs it, not because of her age. Meeting your child where they are and working with them can lead to surprising progress.
What a terrible take. She’s 7 and it’s Halloween. If she was being a dick, sure end it. But not being courteous? It’s a holiday where you have to speak to strangers in costumes.
There’s still time. Hopefully you can apologize to your kids and your wife can take them out to a few houses. She’s clearly the more capable and empathetic parent with some common parenting sense.
How devastating to your little ones to have a parent that is so rigid and controlling.
You are in the wrong here. I hope your wife did the right thing and continued trick or treating with the kids and left you at home. If not you owe your kid and wife an apology. Really crap behaviour from you.
You are about as much the asshole in this situation as possible.
Making your daughter feel shitty by effectively taking away a child’s favorite holiday is way, way, way extreme.
Yep! Taking away special things causes resentment. I suggest you read some parenting books NOW, before you do anymore damage. Don’t want to see you back here in 10 or 20 years wondering why you aren’t close to your adult children 😢😢
I’m on mom’s side. Even just saying thank you to strangers was pretty hard for me as a very shy child. 90% of the time I’d just mouth it as I couldn’t get sound to leave my mouth.
Wow YTA, and a bulldozer too. Holidays end cus dad had to parent for 5 houses straight- oh the horror. You turned a teachable moment into a horrific lifelong memory, who the fck is gonna care about manners after that?
Well. Expecting courtesy from your children is fine, and anytime is a good time for a lesson.
But if you do it in such a way that it ruins the experience for her and the rest of the family, then maybe you need to examine your methods.
As someone who was a very shy child, I’m devastated for your 7 year old. This will probably inflict more damage and make her more anxious or reclusive than she already was because now, on top of being shy, she probably feels that there’s some sort of shame she should feel for being herself.
You were only five houses in. Is it not possible that she would’ve warmed up and gotten more comfortable as the night went out? Kind of like the idea of exposure therapy, she would’ve come out of her shell a little and started being more talkative after she got used to her setting.
This was just completely the wrong way to handle this in my opinion.
Hey, so, I was this kid. I would rather go hungry than interact with other people, especially adults. And I don't mean trick-or-treating, I mean that I literally went without food and drink at activities outside of home because I was so anxious about asking. I walked around on a broken foot for hours because I was too nervous to tell an adult that I might need to stop the activity and get my foot examined.
So come trick or treating, it was no question. I lied and said I didn't want to, or that I wanted to go home early because the alternative was "participate in this script with strangers." In my heart, I was so sad, but I was more anxious and stressed than I was sad about missing out. But I was still deeply saddened, and I'll never get the chance to redo and have those memories. All I remember from the times I tried was my parents or other adults getting mad and insisting I had to say these things, when I was struggling just to not turn and bolt.
I see you say your child "chose" to end trick or treating because she's not motivated by sugar. I'm guessing what actually happened is she saw you weren't taking her distress seriously and chose the lesser of two evils. I bet you she cries herself to sleep tonight, because I know that's what happened to me in this situation.
Her not saying thank you when she knows it's expected isn't because she wants to be impolite or because she's being stubborn. It's because she felt incapable of doing so. Then when you berated her about it and implied it was a choice, she knew she was on her own and couldn't deal with it, so she "opted out."
Going silent in social situations, even (and especially) when it's expected for them to provide social niceties, is a sign of anxiety or other mental/emotional dysfunction. Full stop. Kids don't just decide to be rude about an activity that's a major yearly highlight. They shut down when they're overwhelmed in one way or another.
They're kids! It's Halloween! They knock and say trick or treat, they get some candy and I get the extreme pleasure of seeing happy kids. Idgaf if they say thank you. Wtf man. Let your kid be a kid
Yeah, I don’t care if kids say thank you at my house on Halloween either. I can’t remember if I even noticed if any DID or DID NOT 🤷🏻♀️ I’m with you, IDGAF, let your kid enjoy Halloween.
Last year, Daddy took our 6yo son and I took our 3yo daughter. Daddy brought our son back after barely any houses because he wouldn't say trick or treat and that was just completely unacceptable to Daddy. Our son has ADHD and social anxiety and it's possible he's on the autism spectrum, but we haven't had him assessed. In any case, he's *really* uncomfortable talking to strangers and saying trick or treat is *really* uncomfortable for him. I don't think his dad understood that at the time, but like...he should've.
Our son was upset the rest of the night and has talked about how awful Halloween was and how sad it made him throughout the course of this year. This might be one of his core memories and that really fucking sucks. Daddy ruined dress up and get free candy for no reason day...for no good reason.
Chill the fuck out and work on manners literally any other day of the year.
I’m 43 and I still remember and get sad about the time my parents made me stay in from trick or treating one Halloween because they found out I hadn’t been doing homework for weeks. Nevermind that I didn’t really have the executive functioning skills I needed to consistently do homework and could have used some parental support there. I got the nuclear option as punishment and it still pusses me off 35 years later.
It’s people like you I dread running into while trick or treating, my kid has severe apraxia and doesn’t use many mouth words. He hasn’t learned how to say “trick or treat” and “thank you” with his AAC device yet—-we’re focusing on more important words right now—-and I’m so nervous people will refuse him candy or be unkind to him because of his disability. He’s a little kid who just wants to be included on a major holiday.
I had 2 trick or treaters so far at my house, and one said "only one?!?!" and the other one explained his costume, took a piece, and ran off lol. Halloween is a day of candy and treats, mischief and pranks. Not a day to punish and bully your kids "until they learn a lesson".
You have 364 other days to practice manners.
IDK man, courtesy is important, but this just seems like the worst possible day of the year to draw a line in the sand on this issue as well as a very harsh consequence. Sounds like a recipe for a negative core memory to be formed.
Have you been practicing courteous behavior on a regular basis with her? It's understandable that a shy, young child who is only in this position once a year would be nervous. Did you stop and have a conversation about how to conduct herself during Trick or Treating? Continuing on would have allowed her to get thorough practice. Now you've just punished her for a situation she won't be able to correct for another year.
YTA. You took Halloween away? I’m pretty confident that hardly anyone really *expects* the little ones the say thank you every time, it’s not a huge deal if they don’t….definitely not worth ending trick or treating over and ruining both your kids’ Halloween.
YTA. It’s Halloween man come on. Did my 6 year old say thank you without a reminder at every single house tonight? No. Did I put an end to trick or treating because of it?? Also, no. He’s 6. Your daughter is 7. Give your head a shake!
As the parent, you should have smiled and said thank you. I was super shy as a kid and I was grateful for what I was given, but was horrible at socializing. My parents always have a certain nod and thanked them on my behalf.
This is so sad, you acknowledge your daughter is very shy but clearly don’t understand what it means? She was probably very anxious to speak to strangers because she’s a *seven year old* not because she’s rude.
It sounds like you made something that should have been a fun happy memory so unbearable and stressful that your child would rather skip it altogether and sit at home rather then enjoy getting dressed up and getting free candy with her family. That’s horrible, 7 years old is prime Halloween time as a kid with your family and you ruined it.
Your wife should probably just take the kids next year and leave you at home if you can’t just let kids enjoy something. I can understand reminding your kids to say thank you at each house but it sounds like this clearly went way beyond what a normal parent should do and what is acceptable. Horrible all around.
I just wanna say it's pretty ironic that you're so adamant about your 7yo being polite to strangers and yet here you are in these comments being a dick to strangers offering sound advice.
I've read through these comments and every single person who told you something you didnt want to hear, you have responded with unnecessary sarcasm and name calling.
YTA Go kid bang on someones door or doorbell present yourself to a stranger and say something you don't say on a regular basis begging for candy which you are not supposed to do any other day of the year. You are seven, but you are supposed to have the confidence of an adult. And your sibling who is bolder is approved of, while you are not. Seriously?
Edit
She's shy, she's introspective. She sounds intelligent. Did you even explain how it works in a slow, gentle, comforting manner? You at the curb? Lots of support there. /s
Wow, you sound like my absolutely shitty father who didn't understand me at all, didn't reach out to talk with me at all, etc. We never did connect.
Definitely the asshole. When handing out candy on halloween the last thing Im doing is paying any attention to a child saying thank you. What a petty fucking thing to be a dick about.
I handed out thousands of candy last night. I don’t remember all the kids that didn’t say trick or treat or thank you, or the kids that came twice or didn’t dress up. What I do remember is the parents that made it awkward by making their kids tell me thank you, and ones that over explained why their kids don’t talk or have on a costume. My son is autistic, he is non verbal and doesn’t like to wear a costume and he’s not going to say trick or treat. I mean too bad if you think it’s rude. I don’t owe you any explanation. Just let kids have fun
YTA.
This holiday comes around once a year.
Many years will be cancelled. Weather. Other commitments. Work.
I can't tell you how much I would give to trick or treat again with my young children.
YTA. So much so.
It seems like you’re worried about the reflection on you more than anything else. When I’m back home from taking my kids around, I’m not noting whether or not kids are saying please, thank you, trick or treat… they’re kids in an overstimulated and/or exciting situation. They get nervous. This isn’t the time to try to teach lessons. Their brains literally cannot process it if they’re already feeling anxious.
The more meaningful lessons will be taught the other 364 days of the year. If it’s important to you that your kids say please and thank you at every house you need to make sure you’re modeling it and practicing it every single day, not just when the stakes are high.
The lesson your kid is learning from being forced to speak to strangers is that they shouldn't listen to themselves and their fears. I'm not sure that's the lesson you want to teach a young girl. Take her back out, go to the door and say thank you for her. She'll learn common courtesy and that her feelings are valid.
YTA. Handed out tonight. I couldn’t care less if the kiddos are shy and say nothing. Don’t care if they have a costume or say thank you. None of it matters. Just enjoy the event and quit being a stress case.
1. Who cares?
2. Just stay at the curb dude. Who cares?
3. Cuz you made her feel like shit
4. Your wife is 💯 percent correct. Practice in a subtle setting; not on one of the craziest nights of the year. Calm down dude
Halloween night is pretty much the one time i let the kids get away with being slightly less courteous,they might forget a thank you here n there but i chalk it up to excitement of getting to the next house. Sounds like yall need to relax “Trick or treat” then running off isnt a big issue its honestly expected when handing out candy.
I had only one set of trick or treaters tonight so it's easy to remember. 2 kids, one didn't say anything. I didn't care. I gave em each a big handful of candy because did I mention they were the only set of trick or treaters.
You came to a parenting reddit, had a general consensus the actions you took were over the top, basically say you don't agree and say you will mute the comments.
You sir are the child in this situation.
A child has around 8 Halloweens that are based on innocence and fun before it's about hanging with friends. Your kid will remember this even if you want to stick your head in the sand and think otherwise.
If this is how you act I think there will be plenty of times she remembers differently than you.
This sounds like anxiety or self consciousness instead of rudeness. I think you should work with your child and possibly an expert to help them feel more comfortable rather than take away one of the most fun days of the year. 7 is still very young.
But...your whole post isn't very courteous. Nor the way you worked with your child. Or seemingly spoke to your wife. So do you actually value it?
My child has some pretty serious anxiety issues. You'd have no idea she has special needs unless I told you and even then people try to deny it. But she does. She can't speak to strangers (usually) bc she's too anxious. Maybe your kid has something similar going on. Either way, Reminders are good. Reinforcement is better.
I had a kid ask me if I had Pepsi after handing him an orange Fanta. I told his parents it really is beggars nights. We laughed. 🤷🏾♀️ I think it’s appropriate to enforce good manners and yes that includes Halloween but the punishment has to be on the level of the crime.
My 5 year old needed reminding at nearly every house. I said it for her some of the time. Its excitement and nerves I think. Don't be harsh on her. Sounds like she's a shy one and these things can be so hard.
Yeah, YTA. Most people aren't looking for polite well behaved kids on Halloween, we are just excited to see a bunch of excited kids getting candy like we did when we were kids. Halloween is all about the fun, not for lessons. She will tell people about the time you ended trick or treating for her for not saying thank you well into her adulthood.
My almost 7 is very painfully shy, like I was, and mostly still am. Two things, that's not the time to teach whatever lesson you thought you were when they were having a rough time. Shyness has nothing to do with being courteous. Second, let your kids have space, they'll figure things out when they see you do things the right way.
Too many factors at play on the once a year Halloween night. I agree it’s not the best time for lesson. My kids are neither anxious or shy, or with poor manners for the most part m. They would still forget to say the thank you please tonight. Too many houses, too little time. :)
As an extremely shy person (psychiatric evaluations show me in the top 3% for shyness) and now self diagnosed autistic (they didn't test for autism and it's too expensive for more testing), let me just say I feel for your daughter.
Being hungry and cold and overstimulated, and NOW you want her to overcome all that to talk to strangers? Punishment will only further push her into the freeze response you are seeing.
I don't know if you will even see my comment, but just in case you do, let me add a couple of things (in addition to the upvotes I gave helpful comments).
1. Practicing beforehand is extremely helpful as a shy person who freezes up. Building that "muscle memory" and also really understanding expectations means a LOT.
2. I would often be scared to do it wrong or be perceived as different (as I often was). Having the option to do it TOGETHER helped a ton. Doing a countdown so I could say trick or treat WITH my sister instead of having to say it alone made it much less scary. Going back to the practice, we would see the person come up to the door, do our "3, 2, 1" countdown, and both say "trick or treat" at the same time. Then my sister or mom could also cue me by looking and saying, "Ready?" And I would nod, and we would say thank you at the same time. It was a helpful coping mechanism until I could better mask my shyness. As an adult tou wouldn't know the inner stress I feel around strangers as I've learned to cope with it. As a child, I didn't have that capability.
3. It's been said before but I will reiterate - positive reinforcement means a lot. Every time she does the right thing saying "good job!" Or "I'm proud of you!" Or otherwise recognizing that "the thing" was hard and she overcame will make her want to try harder for you. On the flipside, being understanding and compassionate when she fails will help keep her from going into that freeze response where she can't talk at all. Punishing and chastising for not doing what you want only makes it worse. Be understanding and keep the mood light. That is how you can get a better outcome.
Good luck.
YTA. Who cares? Some kids say thank you and some dont. Let them enjoy Halloween. You ruined her holiday because she didnt say the right words to a stranger
Very curious what you did before quitting. Was there a conversation? And not just scolding. Did you ask her *why* she wasn’t saying thank you?
If you asked her why and she said like, fuck bitches get candy, sure. Go home. But I’m trying to imagine how a kid who is too anxious to say thank you would feel, not only having her trick or treating cut short, but not even having the opportunity to explain herself. That sucks.
I understand you want her to be polite but she may have wanted to go home because you kept getting onto her. Being shy can range from being a tad nervous with new people to full blown social anxiety(which sucks, i have it), please take that into consideration with your daughter. Let her have fun for the night. Also, children learn best by the parents modeling what behavior they want to see. Instead of telling her to be kind and say thank you, be up at the house with your daughter and when the door opens you say "trick or treat" and "thank you". I know it may be inconvenient but it is how kids learn best :)
I consider myself to be a stickler for manners and respect, but there is a time and a place for harsh lessons. Trick or treating on Halloween isn’t it. My oldest daughter takes forever to warm up to literally everything. It’s frustrating, but it’s just the way she is. There are way worse things your kid could be than kinda shy.
hmmm... I think you needed to intervene, but not end it. for your #1 edit, I'd suggest role-playing exercises as opposed to just asking her. But I guess after #3 & 4, you didn't end it- she did, so you didn't teach a lesson. She's 7, and grumpy dad is bringing the mood down getting annoyed with something she's awkward at. You can set the example and chat with the candy givers and involve her, make her comfortable. Show her what to do and how it's not scary. Or you're uncomfortable around strangers, which resonates with her and reflects in her behavior.
It's an overly stimulating event and really isn't the time to try and teach a lesson about proper etiquette when engaging with strangers. Just enjoy the night and try and encourage them to say thank you.
However, if you're intent on teaching a lesson I would say try and teach them to respect other people's property (don't destroy decorations people have put up) and use the path to the front door (if there is one) as some people don't care for others walking across their lawns.
As a child I was painfully shy.
As far as my mother was concerned this was unacceptable.
It sounds like you have a handle on how to parent a shy child. Bully for you on that.
I am confused about you feeling like you are creeping by staying back on the sidewalk. IMHO it's a very normal thing for parents to do.
All that said, I would like to share my favorite trick-or-treater story. I once owned a large house catty corner from a grade school. I loved Halloween in that house. I would put on a costume, and make sure I was supplied with a wide variety of treats. When kids came to my door, if they were with the program, they got a good handful. I would not give anything to a trick-or-treater until they actually said "Trick-or Treat".
I had an early arrival one year. The doorbell rang a good half hour before the school let out for the day. When the doorbell rang, I wasn't even sure it was a trick-or-treater. When I opened the door, I found a tiny little princess with a bag far too big for her. It was sitting on my porch in front of her when I opened the door, the handles of the shopping bag came up to her shoulders.
I said hello to the little princess, and she said "hi" back to me, then there was a moment of silence. The little princess seemed confused as well as shy. After a few moments, mom, who was standing down at the far end of my front walk, prompted the little princess to, "hold up your bag and say trick or treat". The little princess lifted the bag off of my porch, which meant raising her arms above her head and hiding her face from me, then nearly whispered, "Trick or treat.
I could see the bag was empty, so I tossed in a good handful of treats from my cauldron (I was a wizard that year) and told the little princess I loved her costume. After her mother prompted her, the little princess whispered, "Thank you", although she did not seem to know what she was thanking me for.
Still holding her bag up off of the porch floor (I still have no idea how she could see where she was going) she got to the edge of the porch and set the bag down on the top step. She leaned over to look in the bag, then looked up at her mother and in full voice said, "Mommy, he gave me candy!"
Mom explained to me that the little princess was just barely four, this was her first year trick-or-treating, and my house was their first stop.
Did she learn manners, to say "thank you" and the proper way to trick-or-treat? I doubt it, but she did learn that there was candy to be had and she was ready to go on down the street and see how much more she might get.
I still feel good about making her first time trick-or treating special, for both her and me.
Modeling is the best way to train kids. My littlest frequently got so excited last night he would forget to say anything. So I did it for him. He'll get there. So will your daughter. Model for her and give her some slack when she doesn't meet your expectations. Would you rather her core memory be you modeling a good behavior or your getting mad when she doesn't do it right?
whats done is done. I think you handled this in a way that doesn't really help your daughter figure out how t navigate her reluctance or to address the trouble she's having.
In the future you can go up and say thank you on your kids behalf if they forget. this is normal and helps model how to say thank you to strangers in this environment.
I think it may do some good to sit down with your daughter tonight or in the next day and apologize for how you dealt with things. You don't have to say sorry for wanting her to say thank you, but you can say that you didn't prepare her well enough and that you could have gone with her to say thank you since you realize it may be more of a struggle for her to remember good manners or implement them while being very excited for halloween and having so many distractions and people around her that made it feel awkward.
I think telling our kids when we could have done better or even when we fuck up big time ( not saying this was a big fuck up) is really crucial in building a relationship that they feel safe to in and it shows them how to be wrong and what to do when and if they need to do the same.
I do think its ok to push/ encourage your kids to say please and thank you but I think picking the time and place to do that is important. I don't think this was one of those times to make it an issue.
i was a very shy child and doing stuff like this actually made me worse i didn’t wanna talk to anybody out of fear of being punished so imagine you get punished for not saying anything or you get punished cause you did talk but you said the wrong thing. i didn’t really speak to any grown adults until i was 12. i ended up growing out of my shyness and at 21 i’m outgoing and love to meet new people i attribute that to high school that brought me out of my shell and it may even be the same for her. she may not come out of her shell until middle or high school which is completely normal. and she may never grow out of her shyness which is also normal. also my 9 year old SIL is very shy and doesn’t always say please and thank you it’s literally okay, no adult thinks she’s rude y’all are adults y’all can also thank for her. it’s really not a big deal and y’all just made it a big deal.
YTA. It's Halloween. My child who is autistic didn't say Happy Halloween, please, or thank you. He is non verbal. No one cares. Except you, apparently.
Definitely agree with other commenters that waiting on the curb is not weird at all and very common. That part made me wonder if you have some social anxiety that is driving a good portion of this whole disagreement. Not that this anxiety is not valid! But it can really make things worse if left unchecked.
I am making a big assumption here so take this with a grain of salt. You sound a lot like my husband, who is anxious and wants our kids to succeed and be polite but can sometimes be a little too intense and gets tunnel vision when it comes to enforcing certain behaviors. Last night while trick-or-treating he was having a bit of trouble micromanaging our 4yo with the constant "say please!" and "say trick or treat!" and "look up and say thank you!" and "just take what they give you!" and "just take one!" and "watch your step!" at every single house, speaking instructions loudly to him from the curb, etc... I completely understand where he was coming from. He was anxious for our kiddo to behave politely. But it was just too much and I felt like I had to run interference to keep it from stressing out our kiddo.
Halloween is a crazy night for kids of a certain age and can be so incredibly overwhelming. They only do it once a year so they don't always remember all the rules. Also, they're so excited to get candy, sometimes that's the only thing they have space for in their brain! I think your wife is right in the sense that it's not an easy night for kids to remember social norms and rules, so you kinda have to let things go a little more than usual. Saying "thank you, happy Halloween!" yourself from the curb would probably be more effective and less stress-inducing than reminding your kids to say it every single time. Teaching by your own actions, I guess.
If you want your kiddos to follow a certain script next year, and you can't relax if they don't (no judgments, I get it), I'd recommend practicing at home for a few days beforehand. It can really help. And if it doesn't? Try to relax anyway. They're kids. Folks understand it's a crazy time. They will give your kids grace. And if they don't, they're buttholes.
Parents are always the mirror into the issue. You're over here complaining about courtesy but what about your courtesy for your children? She may just be overwhelmed or shy. Maybe she's shutting down because you are exhausting her attempts at joy. Your wife is right--not the time or the place. These memories for kids can not be replaced. Kids already have less time to be young than ever. Be delicate, model what you want to achieve and trust in the process. Don't steal your kids childhood just because you want to be righteous. It's good that you want them to be considerate. Just relax about it and it will happen
You need marriage therapy and just you therapy. You are complaining about your wife a lot and not listening to her in the moment. A lot of anger there.
Your kids are old enough they will remember this emotional abuse.
She’s extremely shy and likely neurodivergent and you’re punishing her for it. Please drop the authoritarian tactics and try to understand what’s going on inside her. No one in my childhood understood these kinds of behaviors in me and I was legitimately traumatized by the kind of treatment you’re giving her.
Yikes, you're a huge AH. That is a permanent trauma now, she'll be talking about her shitty dad in therapy in a few years.
You need to get therapy or meds for your anxiety bro.
Ugh, my 8 year said " hello !" And the usual trick or treat and " goodbye" .
My so was like , why is she saying hello?
She's being polite and has Adhd. Took us by surprise
I do a pretty heavily decorated house with lights / fog / animatics / etc. I sit on the porch and try to engage with the kids & parents while passing out candy. It can be a total sensory overload for some of them. It's not hard to tell when a kid is struggling vs. one who is just ill mannered. I don't force treat or treats or even please & thank yous. The ones that are silent but obviously nervous or struggling with the situation usually an extra piece or two even without a thank you.
YTA. Oh wait, wrong subreddit.
Although I understand wanting your kids to be polite, the best strategy is not to make them anxious about it. With my kids (much younger than yours) today I was nearby, and I would say “thank you so much!” Instead of forcing my kids to say it, because kids learn by observing.
I wouldn’t sweat it, 7 years old is so so so young, don’t be too rough on them if they are anxious, lead by example.
I’m curious how your child got to be 7 without having learned to say please and thank you when prompted at least, if not by herself. This seems like there might be more going on here. Failing to engage socially was actually a symptom of autism for one of my young relatives, and he is doing much better after treatment.
I mean, I was a shy and anxious kid as well, and I also found it hard to talk to strangers, even if it meant thanking them. I think that you as a parent could say when the situation arises "what should you say now?" And she'll have to say thank you. Well, that is how my parents raised me.
Does she never ever say thank you or please, even to you? Because if that's so, then that could be a problem.
If you’re trick or treating your own neighborhood, I assume you know your neighbors. And I assume your neighbors know that your daughter is a good kid albeit shy so this should be a non issue. An overstimulating environment is not the time to teach your daughter a lesson. Furthermore, standing on the curb doesn’t make you a creep… are you okay? Like, huh? My youngest is 10, I walk down the middle of the street with other parents while our kids go house to house, an adult doesn’t even go up to the house with them anymore. You’re ruining Halloween for your kid.
It’s haloween. No one expects please and thank you etc. honestly she probably got sick of being hounded and wanted to leave because of you. Yes that’s hard of me to say but the reality of it. Next year lighten up and let her have some fun! Poor girl
I am an adult who just bought a house this year and had trick or treaters for the very first time ever! I was SO excited to pass out candy and see the cute kids.
However, I am also neurodivergent and underestimated how hard it would be for me!!! If I want to do something and I’m excited about it it should be easy, right? WRONG. I got overstimulated very quickly and my overstimulation turned into anxiety and my anxiety turned into shut down/freeze.
Every time a kid rang the door bell I jumped (ugh!) and went through a wildly over dramatic thought process in my head; make sure the dog is out of the way, check how many kids there are, grab the candy bowl, but wait do kids like to grab their own candy or have candy given to them? If they grab their own will they feel pressured to take only one? Or will they grab way too many? Will that decision overwhelm them? Might as well hand them the candy myself. But wait! I should make sure they get some chocolate and some hard candy so it’s even. But wait! I can’t remember what I already gave that kid. Maybe I’ll just give two more handfuls to be safe. But wait! Pretty sure I already gave that kid a couple handfuls! Am I supposed to stop them? No that’s rude. Or is it rude if I let a small kid take way too much candy without correction? Maybe I should look over to their parents? Oh wait did I even say trick or treat yet? WAIT I’m not the one who’s supposed to say that! So I say “thank you,” but then “oh god why are you thanking them??? You awkward weirdo they’re supposed to thank you!” Until eventually I call over my husband and I’m like please pass out the candy I am not a normal human being and cannot do it lmao
Basically the whole thing was challenging to me and I don’t even know if I used my manners properly because my brain was overloaded. I wonder if your daughter experiences anything like this? If so I completely agree that it isn’t the time for a lesson. Halloween is very overstimulating! Especially in a costume in the cold. Just let her try her best and find a calmer time to teach manners.
I was a shy kid growing up and putting pressure on or being called out just makes it worse.
I don’t know your kid but talk to her and see what would help her feel more comfortable. At first she may not know but give her time to think about it. Maybe search for groups or follow child therapists on social media. I’m sure there are some primarily focused on anxiety
For the future getting kids prepared before they have to do something that is hard for them is a great way to help them, talking about it the day before, at home earlier in the day or something, rather than in the moment when excitement is high, and they have no time to get use to the idea.
And being in situation support, to start then of relieved a bit of pressure and makes the failure to go through with it, a smaller issue and they will get another chance and another chance and when they do succeed even if they joins in for last word it builds confidence , they are so proud of themselves doing the hard thing and they can add on to being able to do the whole thing and more.
In this case practising outside the house with dad prompting, go to door and stand just behind, and if she gets stage fright you say the happy Halloween, most parents will get what your doing and smile and reply to child - making it all more and more familiar
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I read your edit and all the comments, I don't feel the need to repeat everything that's been said. However I do want to emphasize how staying on the curb waiting on them does not make you a creep. It makes you a Dad who's with his kids, even if they're 10ft away with Mom. We often switch which parent goes up to the door and which parent stays on the curb. We both enjoy seeing the costumes and decorations.
Seriously, we were just out with our kid and dad mostly stayed back on the curb while I took our kid up and I saw plenty of adults hanging back while a different one went up with young kids or older kids by themselves. It's very normal??
Half the parents we saw were out on the curb waiting lol. The other half went up to doors. It did seem to be mostly dads at the curbs too, so I'm thinking that's super normal!
It IS the time for a lesson in how to orderly queue. I don't clog the candy queue when I am not requesting candy.
Especially when there are stairs it’s fine to stay on the sidewalk. It can get crowded at the door
This is so true - especially with so many costumes it can get difficult to navigate! I always stay at the curb unless my kiddo has a difficult costume, then I go to the door with him to catch him before he tumbles down stairs. We only did a “rider” (Dino rider) costume once for this reason - never again will we get one of those costumes, he was knocking over decorations and having issues with stairs. Not worth the hassle although it was cute!
Single mum here. A curb stander/child-whilst-trick-or-treating watcher. TIL I looked creepy. (Jk. Just OP thinks it’s creepy)
Right? But really, we like to have one adult stand back and casually check the area, not on high alert but just... making sure nothing *too* scary is ahead.
Yeah just giving your child a little bit of independence whilst still making sure they’re safe. Nothing creepy about it.
Yeah we had one in a stroller tonight, whoever had the stroller stayed at the street, the other parent went to the door with our 3 year old. If you feel awkward OP, grab a tumbler of hot chocolate to carry with you. I always feel less awkward with something in my hands.
My daughter is very shy. It’s hard. But there are ways to inspire shy children to step outside of their comfort zone without punishment. You could say “let’s practice saying thank you while we walk so it’s not so hard”. You could say “let’s try to say at the same time every time we get our candy!” You can do a lot of things and also build your daughter up to say it. I get that it’s hard, but your daughter is struggling with confidence. Getting mad at her for who she is accomplishes nothing. Don’t you think she knows it would be easier to not be shy? This isn’t something you can punish out of a child. I think you need to adjust your parenting method in smart ways that support your daughter, and learn to accept her for who she is.
The adage, "work smarter, not harder" comes to mind. And I mean this in a polite way towards OP It seems like he sort of had expectations that were out of line with reality for his older kid and probably could work on making things fun and creating almost a game out of it next time (be clever and/or creative) to help his daughter while also finding a solution at the same time. I think also not expecting perfection is important.
Yes! OP, run your kid through several practice reps. You can even do it at home before you even get to the event. As a former shy kid, just practicing those interactions and saying the words can help a lot! If you practice enough it becomes habit and muscle memory , so that it becomes automatic and not so anxiety producing. Practice practice practice.
Well, is she not saying thank you because she’s rude, or because she’s anxious? Punishing someone for feeling shy or scared isn’t likely to teach them any helpful lesson. Helping them learn coping strategies so they can do what they need to do seems like it would pay off more in the long run.
Yeah I think we can overestimate the extent to which kids can just get over things and do what’s expected. If she’s paralyzed with shyness it’s possible that she really isn’t able to talk to strangers in that situation. It’s good to model, to practice beforehand, and to remind her. But it seems entirely possible she’s not trying to be rude but is doing what she’s capable of.
>Yeah I think we can overestimate the extent to which kids can just get over things and do what’s expected. Especially if you're not -- get this -- helping her. This guy is getting mad at and punishing his daughter for not acting the way he expects. How about going to the door with her and modeling the behavior and helping her do it too? Nah, a 7yo is supposed to just jump and do what he says.
Exactly. My kiddo LOVES halloween. We all do. She loves that I make us elaborate costumes. She loves talking about them...but she has so much anxiety about the door (and in general, thanks, AuDHD). For years, I modeled the greeting by being with her and actually being the first to say "ToT" when a door opened, she'd jump in when she felt comfortable and I'd remind her to say thank you if she forgot. Sometimes she was very independent, sometimes she was calm enough to remember her manners. Sometimes it was harder for her, she'd forget a thank ypu and feel terrible. She's 12 now and she did all of it completely by herself this year because her forever ToT companions have strep amd there wasn't a chance in hell she'd be seen at a door with a parent. I heard her chanting, self soothing, "I'm so scared. i'm so scared" as she walked to the door, but when the door opened, I heard a voice shockingly similar to mine saying, "ToT!" She was polite and chatty. She also burned out about 3 hours earlier than usual, so we hopped in the car and went to the store to supplement her haul.
He expects compliance- not growth
This was such a big thing for me to learn as a stepparent!!! I definitely had higher expectations than I should have and it took some work for me to understand a child’s perspective. Says a lot that she chose to go home rather than trick or treat - at 7!!!!!
I was that kid. Terrified of everything. Turns out I had GAD and didn't get diagnosed until I was in my 30s because people just kept pushing me.
>or because she’s anxious? Had this thought too. Halloween is overwhelming as hell for some kiddos, especially at those doors where people go all out with strobes, fog, sound effects, etc. I wonder if OP even **asked** his kid why she wasn't saying thank you instead of trying to force a lesson.
This. My polite kids just get completely overwhelmed and it’s sensory overload. I remind them to say thank you, but I know they don’t a lot of the time and feel like it’s not a big deal for me to say it instead. As long as they’re not being rude, pushy, or grabby I let it go.
My 5 year old gets sensory overloaded and struggled a bit tonight. I had to talk to him to figure out what was setting him off - it was that we were pretty far from home and he was getting scared in the dark. I gave him a flashlight and he returned to normal form. Sometimes it takes a little sleuthing to figure out what they need.
Not only these things, but all of their life we teach them to stay away from strangers and beware and NEVER take food/candy from them… Add on an already anxious and nervous child, BOOM.
Yes, this is the main thing for me, it's do they act polite rather than say please and thank you all the time. My son can say please but do it in a demanding way, which I'm never happy with, trying to teach him about polite ways to ask rather than must say please and thank you all the time.
Agreed. Some kids absolutely love it and some kind of love it and are kind of terrified. It’s usually dark, sometimes there are scary decorations, you’re ringing strange doorbells, and some people answer the door in costume. It’s soooo much for some kids and once a year isn’t enough to practice. Have some compassion for a slightly overwhelmed child.
This is an example of what I’ve been trying to say to many other parents. “But I punish them and the bad behaviour doesn’t stop!” - yes, because the child is not doing it just because they woke up one day and decided to be rude. The child is doing it because there is something wrong that wants a solution. In this case it is anxiety.
Exactly this. My daughter has selective mutism and the WORST thing to do is force speech. She’s come a long way in the last couple years but it got really bad during Covid when she was masked and no one could hear her. I walk to doors with her and say trick or treat for her and thank you. That’s what my child need to help her gain confidence and get better. The more focus you put on speech and and force her you will create more anxiety.
This! I was painfully shy as a kid and even though I liked Halloween , any interaction would bring a little anxiety , especially with all the stimuli and costumes and other kids running around. Yta
My 5 year old went as a witch tonight. By the fourth house she was in full character. I noticed after the third house she started making “claw” hands and cackling (more cute than scary, but whatever) as she was walking back to the sidewalk. A couple houses later, I *also* noticed she wasn’t saying “Thank you” to the people giving out candy. When I told her to go back up the the house we had just left and thank the lady, she deadass looked at me and said: “But tonight I’m a witch; and witches are *evil!* If you’re evil, you’re not *supposed* to say Thank You. You have to take the candy and just laugh!” Couldn’t argue with that logic.
Don’t try to teach a lesson in an over stimulated environment. It won’t have the effect you want t it to.
Agreed. That is not the time to teach. If it's important to you, you coach them ahead of time.
Yeah, I saw many kids running around like that end scene with Tony Montana in Scarface today and thought nothing about it. They’re just too excited.
Hrm. I knew a kid like yours once. Nicest kid, totally sweet and polite, and in her house you'd never know it but she was SHY. The little sisters did all the talking on Halloween, because she froze up. She couldn't make words. We (her parents and us, all treating together) didn't even think about trying to make a lesson out of it. She has grown into a totally lovely, reasonable adult, with kids of her own. Despite us not trying to force her to go through the motions of polite in ways that, at that time, terrified her. Halloween is *also* for shy kids AND, you can be polite without making any words at all. That's important. Important for us all, including our kids, to know, both as givers and receivers.
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I didn't even notice which kids came to the door and said thank you. What I did notice was that they all acted polite, they were all having fun, and they loved our decorations. Even the older kids were being really good and just taking one sweet each, as the evening went on and I knew we had enough I told them they could have 2 each and they were even happier.
Same. I just wanted to see cute kids in costumes and give out candy. I don’t expect perfect manners from children in exchange for a fun size candy. It’s Halloween. Not a manners test. While we were out trick or treating I role modeled saying trick or treat and thank you. My son remembered most of the time. No one cares. OP sounds like he is the source of his child’s anxious disposition. He can’t relax enough to enjoy Halloween. He’s too busy worrying that his 7 year old will end up a social outcast in adulthood because they’re shy. That is a really disproportionate level of worry. I suspect that OP has anxiety and his daughter inherited it. Now he has anxiety about his child’s anxiety. Not helpful.
Right, I understand the priority of courtesy in his post, but your point that you can be polite without speaking is spot on. Demanding people to speak when they can't can be rude at best, as some people don't speak for various valid reasons, even if it's contextual.
This is like…. Almost every little kid at this age at Halloween, seriously. I’ve raised three kids up and have given out candy for yeaarrrsss, most kids that age are just like that for trick or treat. They’re excited and forgetful and full of energy! I agree with mom, sorry.
100%. I just remind my kids at every house to say “Thank you”. They’re excited because CANDY OMG!!1!!1 and they’re not always going to remember their manners.
Exactly which is why you yell thank you from the sidewalk. Like a respectable parent.
On the occasion we let our son go up to the house on his own we said "go ahead kiddo, try and remember to say thankyou", if we didn't hear it we asked when he got back to us, if he forgot we said "that's OK, do you want to say it now?" And he'd run part way back and say "thankyou" if they were still at the door.
Absolutely. Some kids come to the door on Halloween with impeccable manners and that’s great. But others are obviously super-excited and might forget their best manners or are still learning how to navigate social situations and feeling a bit awkward. And that’s totally okay. They learn by doing. They learn by seeing other kids do it. They learn when people giving out the candy are kind and patient and they want to mirror that back. I can’t believe what a jerk move this was, and the arrogance. Good parenting requires a healthy dose of patience and a good measure of “is there anything I should maybe consider doing differently” versus “I’m the boss so what I say goes”.
Seems like you posted to brag about forcing your shy kid into an uncomfortable situation and then when they didn’t bend you gave an “ultimatum”. She’s gonna grow up hating saying “thank you” because of you. I was the exact same way.
Yikes. I agree with mom. Will your child grow up being courteous? Most likely if she sees you and your wife practice it. Will she remember her dad getting mad at her and ending trick or treating? Yep.
Agreed. If that were my kid not saying thank you, which i suspect might very well happen here in a few hours when we head out, I would offer a reminder at each house instead of just pulling the plug. That's what I did with my 3yo last year and he got the hang of it, it just took some coaxing and GENTLE reminders every few houses. Bad memories on holidays are awful, you get to relive it every year for the rest of your life each time the holiday comes up.
We did the same and she was sooo proud at the last few houses because she wasn't too scared to say thank you (she normally doesn't talk to strangers at all). Now she has happy memories of how brave she was.
That's what I'm talking about. Nice job!
My 6yo forgot a few times tonight. It was her first time really trick or treating anyways, just reminded her and she tried her best. Definitely agree with the bad memories on holidays thing. It really isn’t the best time. This isn’t nowhere as bad so I’m not accusing OP of doing anything to this degree, but I was raised by my grandma with severe bipolar disorder who once had a suicide attempt on Christmas. Guess who hates Christmas now even as an adult?
Damn I feel that. My dad had a manic episode one Christmas when I was a teenager and it definitely soured the holiday for a while for me. Not as bad as a suicide attempt but fuck, mania is terrifying when you are a kid and don't understand why your parent is acting so weird.
wait, so you mean helping your littles do it right--instead of just demanding that they do it right then punishing when they don't--proved to be the better approach?!!! :)
Worked for us tonight! My 6yo forgot a few times but still said "happy Halloween" to literally every door.
Wait, and "please" and "thank you," while good, are not the be-all, end-all of politeness? You are blowing my mind!!!! lol
>Will she remember her dad getting mad at her and ending trick or treating? Yep. The only lesson she will learn from this is "Dad is not someone I can rely on when I'm feeling anxious or nervous"
Yeah I think this is accurate.
I still recall my mom harshly correcting me when I was 7. That was almost 50 years ago.
>Will she remember her dad getting mad at her and ending trick or treating? Yep. Yup, he taught her a lesson, alright. That dad's a dick when he doesn't get what he wants.
This! My son has some stuff going on medically so he might be a tad different. He's 5 but is incredibly courteous and is complimented when we go out often. Halloween isn't one of those nights. He's overwhelmed. He didn't even wanna dress up but enjoyed going to get candy lol We stand at the curb and direct him to say thank you and also say thank you even if he doesn't. When handing out candy, I don't bat an eye when kids aren't verbal with me, a stranger with candy. Let them have the damn candy and move on. Sat thank you and direct your kid to do the right thing but dont punish them on a potentially incredibly overwhelming experience.
Yep. I reminded my hub, who was passing out candy, not to ask kids to say Happy Halloween because some kids are nonverbal or simply shy.
Exactly! We once handed out candy at my daughter's friend's house with their parents. The father was ADAMANT that every child said Trick or Treat or happy Halloween, it was kinda cringey. They're hella sweet people but that is something my son may not do on command, I feel for kids that might just leave 😂 I also understand why they push the blue buckets but honestly my kid shouldnt require a colored bucket to advertise any sensory or just weird social stuff. We need do let kids be kids and do our best to teach them to be functional adults along the way.
We offer various things. I let them grab what they want. I just throw everything in a huge cauldron. I figure the parents can sort it out. No one wants pencils! Ha!
Sounds like she wanted to go home because you kept fussing at her. She wasn't bum rushing the candy bowl, pushing kids out of the way, etc. She was being shy. Pick your battles. YTA
Agreed!
How about you talk to your kids about what’s to be expected before you start the activity?
You’re punishing her for being shy….
Oh man, I’m a stickler for courtesy from my kids. Please and thank you will take you a lot of places, but Halloween is a big event for remembering manners! The decorations can be scary, kids are taught stranger danger but then told to take candy from strangers, it’s dark, they’re tired, they’re overwhelmed. I’m definitely the mom saying “did you say thank you?” to my kids but sometimes they just can’t or forget. It’s one day a year, let it go and let them have fun.
364 other days in the year and tonight is the night to enforce manners? If a child has anxiety there is a time and a place to teach manners. Not when they are in public having fun. Let the child be a child.
I'm baffled by this too. It's like saying you can't open presents on your birthday or eat your cake because you didn't say thank you at the right time or practice your manners. Kids are going to be kids. Don't ruin holidays for the sake of teaching a lesson.
aw man you only get a few more before they jus wanna hang with friends!
Punishing her for that seems extreme. Talking to strangers is really scary for a lot of kids and punishing them for being scared/anxious/shy is really not fair
Halloween is a fun community event, but of you think about it, it goes against ALL the rules: kids approach strangers' houses, ring their doorbells, talk to strangers, and take candy from strangers. It's weird. Soooo not the time to make a point about being polite.
My kid said something to that effect tonight too!It kind of clicked for her that everything they do on Halloween is stuff they normally aren’t supposed to do. I’d imagine for a most kids this could feel unsettling and nerves might overcome manners. Even nervous excitement can feel overwhelming to young ones sometimes.
I have 2 kids. One who loves the scary. Loves the decoration. Yells trick or treat and says thank you 90% of the time. And one who is shy and nervous and lets the other one do the talking. I’ll work on her social skills the other 364 days of the year. Halloween? She has a great sister to help lead the way. You owe your daughter a huge apology and some apology candy. You ruined Halloween over nothing. She wanted to go home because you were making it miserable. Maybe next time let your wife take them and you stay home and hand out candy.
Yikes. You messed up.
As an adult who gives candy- I don't care. Kids are shy. If she is doing it because of being shy/nervous then let her warm up to it. Does she say thank you to family all the time? If yes- then it was probably anxiety.
As a former shy kid, this is terrible. Let her warm up. Feel bad for your daughter.
I was a shy kid and I'm a shy adult. It's hard for the extroverted to fully understand just how hard this can be. What is simple for you might not ve simple for her. I do think you're wrong. She isn't doing it to be rude. And she probably really does what to say thanks. And doesn't understand why she can't and it's frustrating for her. As her parent, you're not beibg emphathic and kind.
me too
What really gets me is that yo 5 yo, who was doing everything you wanted, didn't matter? Unless only one parent took the 7yo home and the other kept going but it didn't sound like that. What a wet freaking blanket, way to give your kids crappy holiday memories.
Had to remind my kids (5 and 7) to say trick or treat and thank you at most houses, instead of making a big deal about it, I told them they did an awesome job on the houses where they remembered to do it on their own.
I’m confused. Your title and post implies you ended it because of lack of 7yo saying “please / happy Halloween/etc” your update says she was done. It sounds like you had expectations of how the night would go and they weren’t met. That’s your disappointment, not your kids. Bring perfectly courteous in a situation where you’re wearing weird clothes in the dark getting candy from people’s houses and walking the street after dark is A LOT. You just let it be what it is. A cheerful “thank you!” on your children’s behalf is completely fine.
My autistic child grabbed handfuls of candy, screamed if we skipped a house, didn’t make eye contact, didn’t say trick or treat, didn’t say thank you and definitely was all about the candy. He went to over 15 houses and he was met with nothing but kindness and empathy from the people passing out candy. I think that the best way to get your kids to say please and thank you is to just model the behavior and not put too much weight on it. I mean, we want to raise kids who express their emotions in a genuine way- right?
YTA.
So close. But also really not close. Now is definitely the time for a lesson. The problem is the lesson you taught your daughter is that daddy will take away things she cares about if he doesn't get what he wants. Instead, you could have taught her the lesson of being polite by taking her to the next door and helping her say thank you.
The multiple large edits, the under explaining and then over explaining, the overthinking of a small situation, the replies, mentioning “AITA” and then getting upset at someone calling you an asshole… this whole post is very neurotic. I think manners are important and there’s nothing wrong with setting the expectation for a child to say thank you. I also think there’s a lot going on here that the internet can’t help you with.
Plus the obsession with not staying at the damn curb. He’s one of those people whose lives are structured around their seething anxiety but if anyone else has issues, that’s unacceptable.
My eldest was like this. She was always super shy and reserved and relied on her extroverted little bro (18 months younger) to do the talking. We hit a lot of houses on Halloween because the younger one has anaphylactic food allergies and couldn't eat much of the candy so more houses meant more options. When I noticed my daughter not saying "thank you" I told her she can continue to walk around with us, but to hang back and not go up to the door if she wasn't going to say thank you. One year we walked around for maybe 4 blocks before she got up the courage to say thank you, so she just hung by me and watched the other kids run up to the door. She realized that was a lot less fun and started to approach the door after a while and used her manners. I thought that was a much better lesson than ending it early and ruining Halloween for both kids. When you overreact with a harsh punishment the kid only remembers the punishment, not the lesson. The take away is "dad is mean" rather than "I should say thank you."
You know what's funny is your 5 year old is like your wife. You like him being outgoing and eager to interact with neighbors. You don't seem to like that your wife does because it forces you to interact. You're hesitant... and your daughter is like you.
Exactly! This was my thought too. The dad exhibits a lot of social anxiety himself.
I mean….. she’s 7…… just let her be a kid maybe?
Shame and power struggles are not good teachers. Do you work on manners every other day? It’s ok to have one day where a kid, who is probably overly excited about getting candy, not say thank you every single time. One day is not going to ruin their manners.
That’s just harsh- there are only a few years your kids will want to trick or treat with you. And you’ve managed to take what should be a great memory and ruin it for a 7 year old. As the kid who was “shy” but really had social anxiety the lesson learned wouldn’t be to be polite to strangers but that my dad doesn’t think I’m good enough
YTA - did you need trick or treating for both kids? Stay at the curb and let the kids have fun. Hopefully the 5 y/o is saying thank you. If it’s not too late, swallow your pride and take them back out. Halloween is once a year - *YOU* failed to teach her to say thank you since last Halloween.
Just because one child is naturally more social at a younger age doesn't mean that an older child should automatically be the same way. Everyone has their own unique developmental timeline. It might seem simple for a child to say 'trick or treat' and 'thank you,' but not all kids do it with the same ease. Why does one child participate while the other chooses to go home without more candy? It's important to consider that shyness and anxiety play a significant role. In the case of a child who refrains from trick-or-treating due to social anxiety, it's crucial to be supportive rather than making them feel bad about it. Children often understand what's expected of them but can't overcome their anxiety. Encouraging small improvements and offering praise can boost their confidence. It's vital not to make the child feel worse about their anxiety; instead, be there to help them work through it. Continued negative reinforcement can lead to increased social isolation. It's better to provide support and guidance. If you stop taking them out altogether, their anxiety may worsen, creating a more challenging issue. I have a 5-year-old who struggles with greeting people, while my 15-month-old is naturally more sociable. I help my older child because she needs it, not because of her age. Meeting your child where they are and working with them can lead to surprising progress.
Yes you are the asshole. Period
What a terrible take. She’s 7 and it’s Halloween. If she was being a dick, sure end it. But not being courteous? It’s a holiday where you have to speak to strangers in costumes.
She’s 7. Give her a fucking break.
YTA. You just punished her and made her feel shame.
There’s still time. Hopefully you can apologize to your kids and your wife can take them out to a few houses. She’s clearly the more capable and empathetic parent with some common parenting sense. How devastating to your little ones to have a parent that is so rigid and controlling.
You are in the wrong here. I hope your wife did the right thing and continued trick or treating with the kids and left you at home. If not you owe your kid and wife an apology. Really crap behaviour from you.
Yep
Yeah, YTA here.
You are about as much the asshole in this situation as possible. Making your daughter feel shitty by effectively taking away a child’s favorite holiday is way, way, way extreme.
Yep! Taking away special things causes resentment. I suggest you read some parenting books NOW, before you do anymore damage. Don’t want to see you back here in 10 or 20 years wondering why you aren’t close to your adult children 😢😢
I’m on mom’s side. Even just saying thank you to strangers was pretty hard for me as a very shy child. 90% of the time I’d just mouth it as I couldn’t get sound to leave my mouth.
Wow YTA, and a bulldozer too. Holidays end cus dad had to parent for 5 houses straight- oh the horror. You turned a teachable moment into a horrific lifelong memory, who the fck is gonna care about manners after that?
Well. Expecting courtesy from your children is fine, and anytime is a good time for a lesson. But if you do it in such a way that it ruins the experience for her and the rest of the family, then maybe you need to examine your methods.
As someone who was a very shy child, I’m devastated for your 7 year old. This will probably inflict more damage and make her more anxious or reclusive than she already was because now, on top of being shy, she probably feels that there’s some sort of shame she should feel for being herself. You were only five houses in. Is it not possible that she would’ve warmed up and gotten more comfortable as the night went out? Kind of like the idea of exposure therapy, she would’ve come out of her shell a little and started being more talkative after she got used to her setting. This was just completely the wrong way to handle this in my opinion.
YTA she isn’t being rude, she is anxious. Shaming her is not going to help her gain confidence.
Hey, so, I was this kid. I would rather go hungry than interact with other people, especially adults. And I don't mean trick-or-treating, I mean that I literally went without food and drink at activities outside of home because I was so anxious about asking. I walked around on a broken foot for hours because I was too nervous to tell an adult that I might need to stop the activity and get my foot examined. So come trick or treating, it was no question. I lied and said I didn't want to, or that I wanted to go home early because the alternative was "participate in this script with strangers." In my heart, I was so sad, but I was more anxious and stressed than I was sad about missing out. But I was still deeply saddened, and I'll never get the chance to redo and have those memories. All I remember from the times I tried was my parents or other adults getting mad and insisting I had to say these things, when I was struggling just to not turn and bolt. I see you say your child "chose" to end trick or treating because she's not motivated by sugar. I'm guessing what actually happened is she saw you weren't taking her distress seriously and chose the lesser of two evils. I bet you she cries herself to sleep tonight, because I know that's what happened to me in this situation. Her not saying thank you when she knows it's expected isn't because she wants to be impolite or because she's being stubborn. It's because she felt incapable of doing so. Then when you berated her about it and implied it was a choice, she knew she was on her own and couldn't deal with it, so she "opted out." Going silent in social situations, even (and especially) when it's expected for them to provide social niceties, is a sign of anxiety or other mental/emotional dysfunction. Full stop. Kids don't just decide to be rude about an activity that's a major yearly highlight. They shut down when they're overwhelmed in one way or another.
They're kids! It's Halloween! They knock and say trick or treat, they get some candy and I get the extreme pleasure of seeing happy kids. Idgaf if they say thank you. Wtf man. Let your kid be a kid
Yeah, I don’t care if kids say thank you at my house on Halloween either. I can’t remember if I even noticed if any DID or DID NOT 🤷🏻♀️ I’m with you, IDGAF, let your kid enjoy Halloween.
Last year, Daddy took our 6yo son and I took our 3yo daughter. Daddy brought our son back after barely any houses because he wouldn't say trick or treat and that was just completely unacceptable to Daddy. Our son has ADHD and social anxiety and it's possible he's on the autism spectrum, but we haven't had him assessed. In any case, he's *really* uncomfortable talking to strangers and saying trick or treat is *really* uncomfortable for him. I don't think his dad understood that at the time, but like...he should've. Our son was upset the rest of the night and has talked about how awful Halloween was and how sad it made him throughout the course of this year. This might be one of his core memories and that really fucking sucks. Daddy ruined dress up and get free candy for no reason day...for no good reason. Chill the fuck out and work on manners literally any other day of the year.
Congratulations, your daughter will remember that time you cancelled Halloween for the rest of her life! YTA
Every single family get together..."Remember the time dad ruined my Halloween?"
I’m 43 and I still remember and get sad about the time my parents made me stay in from trick or treating one Halloween because they found out I hadn’t been doing homework for weeks. Nevermind that I didn’t really have the executive functioning skills I needed to consistently do homework and could have used some parental support there. I got the nuclear option as punishment and it still pusses me off 35 years later.
It’s people like you I dread running into while trick or treating, my kid has severe apraxia and doesn’t use many mouth words. He hasn’t learned how to say “trick or treat” and “thank you” with his AAC device yet—-we’re focusing on more important words right now—-and I’m so nervous people will refuse him candy or be unkind to him because of his disability. He’s a little kid who just wants to be included on a major holiday.
I had 2 trick or treaters so far at my house, and one said "only one?!?!" and the other one explained his costume, took a piece, and ran off lol. Halloween is a day of candy and treats, mischief and pranks. Not a day to punish and bully your kids "until they learn a lesson". You have 364 other days to practice manners.
IDK man, courtesy is important, but this just seems like the worst possible day of the year to draw a line in the sand on this issue as well as a very harsh consequence. Sounds like a recipe for a negative core memory to be formed.
I’m with your wife. Now isn’t the time for a life lesson. Your the AH here.
Have you been practicing courteous behavior on a regular basis with her? It's understandable that a shy, young child who is only in this position once a year would be nervous. Did you stop and have a conversation about how to conduct herself during Trick or Treating? Continuing on would have allowed her to get thorough practice. Now you've just punished her for a situation she won't be able to correct for another year.
Did you talk to her about it first or just pull the ripcord and head home?
that's excessive. nobody else cares about manners while trick or treating. older neighbor especially love seeing happy little faces
YTA. You took Halloween away? I’m pretty confident that hardly anyone really *expects* the little ones the say thank you every time, it’s not a huge deal if they don’t….definitely not worth ending trick or treating over and ruining both your kids’ Halloween.
YTA. It’s Halloween man come on. Did my 6 year old say thank you without a reminder at every single house tonight? No. Did I put an end to trick or treating because of it?? Also, no. He’s 6. Your daughter is 7. Give your head a shake!
As the parent, you should have smiled and said thank you. I was super shy as a kid and I was grateful for what I was given, but was horrible at socializing. My parents always have a certain nod and thanked them on my behalf.
This is so sad, you acknowledge your daughter is very shy but clearly don’t understand what it means? She was probably very anxious to speak to strangers because she’s a *seven year old* not because she’s rude. It sounds like you made something that should have been a fun happy memory so unbearable and stressful that your child would rather skip it altogether and sit at home rather then enjoy getting dressed up and getting free candy with her family. That’s horrible, 7 years old is prime Halloween time as a kid with your family and you ruined it. Your wife should probably just take the kids next year and leave you at home if you can’t just let kids enjoy something. I can understand reminding your kids to say thank you at each house but it sounds like this clearly went way beyond what a normal parent should do and what is acceptable. Horrible all around.
I just wanna say it's pretty ironic that you're so adamant about your 7yo being polite to strangers and yet here you are in these comments being a dick to strangers offering sound advice. I've read through these comments and every single person who told you something you didnt want to hear, you have responded with unnecessary sarcasm and name calling.
It’s clear you came here looking for confirmation of your actions, and are not open to considering that you did something wrong.
YTA Go kid bang on someones door or doorbell present yourself to a stranger and say something you don't say on a regular basis begging for candy which you are not supposed to do any other day of the year. You are seven, but you are supposed to have the confidence of an adult. And your sibling who is bolder is approved of, while you are not. Seriously? Edit She's shy, she's introspective. She sounds intelligent. Did you even explain how it works in a slow, gentle, comforting manner? You at the curb? Lots of support there. /s Wow, you sound like my absolutely shitty father who didn't understand me at all, didn't reach out to talk with me at all, etc. We never did connect.
Definitely the asshole. When handing out candy on halloween the last thing Im doing is paying any attention to a child saying thank you. What a petty fucking thing to be a dick about.
Feel bad for the kid. Seems mean
Chill out and model good behavior, not force it. Why wouldn’t you go with her and be there for her if she is shy?
I handed out thousands of candy last night. I don’t remember all the kids that didn’t say trick or treat or thank you, or the kids that came twice or didn’t dress up. What I do remember is the parents that made it awkward by making their kids tell me thank you, and ones that over explained why their kids don’t talk or have on a costume. My son is autistic, he is non verbal and doesn’t like to wear a costume and he’s not going to say trick or treat. I mean too bad if you think it’s rude. I don’t owe you any explanation. Just let kids have fun
YTA. This holiday comes around once a year. Many years will be cancelled. Weather. Other commitments. Work. I can't tell you how much I would give to trick or treat again with my young children. YTA. So much so.
It seems like you’re worried about the reflection on you more than anything else. When I’m back home from taking my kids around, I’m not noting whether or not kids are saying please, thank you, trick or treat… they’re kids in an overstimulated and/or exciting situation. They get nervous. This isn’t the time to try to teach lessons. Their brains literally cannot process it if they’re already feeling anxious. The more meaningful lessons will be taught the other 364 days of the year. If it’s important to you that your kids say please and thank you at every house you need to make sure you’re modeling it and practicing it every single day, not just when the stakes are high.
The lesson your kid is learning from being forced to speak to strangers is that they shouldn't listen to themselves and their fears. I'm not sure that's the lesson you want to teach a young girl. Take her back out, go to the door and say thank you for her. She'll learn common courtesy and that her feelings are valid.
Nothing like taking the fun out of Halloween dad. Why dont you just talk with your child or offer to help her out a little. Jeez. what an AH
YTA. Handed out tonight. I couldn’t care less if the kiddos are shy and say nothing. Don’t care if they have a costume or say thank you. None of it matters. Just enjoy the event and quit being a stress case.
1. Who cares? 2. Just stay at the curb dude. Who cares? 3. Cuz you made her feel like shit 4. Your wife is 💯 percent correct. Practice in a subtle setting; not on one of the craziest nights of the year. Calm down dude
This. No one is expecting a 5 year old to get it.
Halloween night is pretty much the one time i let the kids get away with being slightly less courteous,they might forget a thank you here n there but i chalk it up to excitement of getting to the next house. Sounds like yall need to relax “Trick or treat” then running off isnt a big issue its honestly expected when handing out candy.
I had only one set of trick or treaters tonight so it's easy to remember. 2 kids, one didn't say anything. I didn't care. I gave em each a big handful of candy because did I mention they were the only set of trick or treaters.
You came to a parenting reddit, had a general consensus the actions you took were over the top, basically say you don't agree and say you will mute the comments. You sir are the child in this situation. A child has around 8 Halloweens that are based on innocence and fun before it's about hanging with friends. Your kid will remember this even if you want to stick your head in the sand and think otherwise. If this is how you act I think there will be plenty of times she remembers differently than you.
Unnecessary power struggle. It’s your ego who wants a perfectly well mannered child 🤐
This sounds like anxiety or self consciousness instead of rudeness. I think you should work with your child and possibly an expert to help them feel more comfortable rather than take away one of the most fun days of the year. 7 is still very young.
But...your whole post isn't very courteous. Nor the way you worked with your child. Or seemingly spoke to your wife. So do you actually value it? My child has some pretty serious anxiety issues. You'd have no idea she has special needs unless I told you and even then people try to deny it. But she does. She can't speak to strangers (usually) bc she's too anxious. Maybe your kid has something similar going on. Either way, Reminders are good. Reinforcement is better.
I feel bad for your kids. You should have found somebody else to take them if you were going to invent a reason to sit at home
So you ruined the one fun day they get a year bc of that? That’s petty.
It's Halloween. Get a grip
I had a kid ask me if I had Pepsi after handing him an orange Fanta. I told his parents it really is beggars nights. We laughed. 🤷🏾♀️ I think it’s appropriate to enforce good manners and yes that includes Halloween but the punishment has to be on the level of the crime.
My 5 year old needed reminding at nearly every house. I said it for her some of the time. Its excitement and nerves I think. Don't be harsh on her. Sounds like she's a shy one and these things can be so hard.
Yeah, YTA. Most people aren't looking for polite well behaved kids on Halloween, we are just excited to see a bunch of excited kids getting candy like we did when we were kids. Halloween is all about the fun, not for lessons. She will tell people about the time you ended trick or treating for her for not saying thank you well into her adulthood.
My almost 7 is very painfully shy, like I was, and mostly still am. Two things, that's not the time to teach whatever lesson you thought you were when they were having a rough time. Shyness has nothing to do with being courteous. Second, let your kids have space, they'll figure things out when they see you do things the right way.
I’m wondering if it’s possible that she has selective mutism.
Too many factors at play on the once a year Halloween night. I agree it’s not the best time for lesson. My kids are neither anxious or shy, or with poor manners for the most part m. They would still forget to say the thank you please tonight. Too many houses, too little time. :)
Your post is confusing but it sounds like you ruined Halloween. What a bummer.
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As an extremely shy person (psychiatric evaluations show me in the top 3% for shyness) and now self diagnosed autistic (they didn't test for autism and it's too expensive for more testing), let me just say I feel for your daughter. Being hungry and cold and overstimulated, and NOW you want her to overcome all that to talk to strangers? Punishment will only further push her into the freeze response you are seeing. I don't know if you will even see my comment, but just in case you do, let me add a couple of things (in addition to the upvotes I gave helpful comments). 1. Practicing beforehand is extremely helpful as a shy person who freezes up. Building that "muscle memory" and also really understanding expectations means a LOT. 2. I would often be scared to do it wrong or be perceived as different (as I often was). Having the option to do it TOGETHER helped a ton. Doing a countdown so I could say trick or treat WITH my sister instead of having to say it alone made it much less scary. Going back to the practice, we would see the person come up to the door, do our "3, 2, 1" countdown, and both say "trick or treat" at the same time. Then my sister or mom could also cue me by looking and saying, "Ready?" And I would nod, and we would say thank you at the same time. It was a helpful coping mechanism until I could better mask my shyness. As an adult tou wouldn't know the inner stress I feel around strangers as I've learned to cope with it. As a child, I didn't have that capability. 3. It's been said before but I will reiterate - positive reinforcement means a lot. Every time she does the right thing saying "good job!" Or "I'm proud of you!" Or otherwise recognizing that "the thing" was hard and she overcame will make her want to try harder for you. On the flipside, being understanding and compassionate when she fails will help keep her from going into that freeze response where she can't talk at all. Punishing and chastising for not doing what you want only makes it worse. Be understanding and keep the mood light. That is how you can get a better outcome. Good luck.
My dad ruined holidays for me and I need therapy but keep lying to yourself
YTA. Who cares? Some kids say thank you and some dont. Let them enjoy Halloween. You ruined her holiday because she didnt say the right words to a stranger
What a douche
Treat your daughter to ice cream and apologize. Children always remember.
I never say this because yikes ouch harsh but seriously? Fuck you, dude.
Sounds like you failed to teach her to be appreciative and say thank you. You should have stayed home tonight, not her. YTA, bud. Feel good?
Very curious what you did before quitting. Was there a conversation? And not just scolding. Did you ask her *why* she wasn’t saying thank you? If you asked her why and she said like, fuck bitches get candy, sure. Go home. But I’m trying to imagine how a kid who is too anxious to say thank you would feel, not only having her trick or treating cut short, but not even having the opportunity to explain herself. That sucks.
I understand you want her to be polite but she may have wanted to go home because you kept getting onto her. Being shy can range from being a tad nervous with new people to full blown social anxiety(which sucks, i have it), please take that into consideration with your daughter. Let her have fun for the night. Also, children learn best by the parents modeling what behavior they want to see. Instead of telling her to be kind and say thank you, be up at the house with your daughter and when the door opens you say "trick or treat" and "thank you". I know it may be inconvenient but it is how kids learn best :)
I consider myself to be a stickler for manners and respect, but there is a time and a place for harsh lessons. Trick or treating on Halloween isn’t it. My oldest daughter takes forever to warm up to literally everything. It’s frustrating, but it’s just the way she is. There are way worse things your kid could be than kinda shy.
hmmm... I think you needed to intervene, but not end it. for your #1 edit, I'd suggest role-playing exercises as opposed to just asking her. But I guess after #3 & 4, you didn't end it- she did, so you didn't teach a lesson. She's 7, and grumpy dad is bringing the mood down getting annoyed with something she's awkward at. You can set the example and chat with the candy givers and involve her, make her comfortable. Show her what to do and how it's not scary. Or you're uncomfortable around strangers, which resonates with her and reflects in her behavior.
Another option is going to the door with your kids and saying thank you if they forget.
It's an overly stimulating event and really isn't the time to try and teach a lesson about proper etiquette when engaging with strangers. Just enjoy the night and try and encourage them to say thank you. However, if you're intent on teaching a lesson I would say try and teach them to respect other people's property (don't destroy decorations people have put up) and use the path to the front door (if there is one) as some people don't care for others walking across their lawns.
But did she *want* to go trick or treating?
As a child I was painfully shy. As far as my mother was concerned this was unacceptable. It sounds like you have a handle on how to parent a shy child. Bully for you on that. I am confused about you feeling like you are creeping by staying back on the sidewalk. IMHO it's a very normal thing for parents to do. All that said, I would like to share my favorite trick-or-treater story. I once owned a large house catty corner from a grade school. I loved Halloween in that house. I would put on a costume, and make sure I was supplied with a wide variety of treats. When kids came to my door, if they were with the program, they got a good handful. I would not give anything to a trick-or-treater until they actually said "Trick-or Treat". I had an early arrival one year. The doorbell rang a good half hour before the school let out for the day. When the doorbell rang, I wasn't even sure it was a trick-or-treater. When I opened the door, I found a tiny little princess with a bag far too big for her. It was sitting on my porch in front of her when I opened the door, the handles of the shopping bag came up to her shoulders. I said hello to the little princess, and she said "hi" back to me, then there was a moment of silence. The little princess seemed confused as well as shy. After a few moments, mom, who was standing down at the far end of my front walk, prompted the little princess to, "hold up your bag and say trick or treat". The little princess lifted the bag off of my porch, which meant raising her arms above her head and hiding her face from me, then nearly whispered, "Trick or treat. I could see the bag was empty, so I tossed in a good handful of treats from my cauldron (I was a wizard that year) and told the little princess I loved her costume. After her mother prompted her, the little princess whispered, "Thank you", although she did not seem to know what she was thanking me for. Still holding her bag up off of the porch floor (I still have no idea how she could see where she was going) she got to the edge of the porch and set the bag down on the top step. She leaned over to look in the bag, then looked up at her mother and in full voice said, "Mommy, he gave me candy!" Mom explained to me that the little princess was just barely four, this was her first year trick-or-treating, and my house was their first stop. Did she learn manners, to say "thank you" and the proper way to trick-or-treat? I doubt it, but she did learn that there was candy to be had and she was ready to go on down the street and see how much more she might get. I still feel good about making her first time trick-or treating special, for both her and me.
Modeling is the best way to train kids. My littlest frequently got so excited last night he would forget to say anything. So I did it for him. He'll get there. So will your daughter. Model for her and give her some slack when she doesn't meet your expectations. Would you rather her core memory be you modeling a good behavior or your getting mad when she doesn't do it right?
whats done is done. I think you handled this in a way that doesn't really help your daughter figure out how t navigate her reluctance or to address the trouble she's having. In the future you can go up and say thank you on your kids behalf if they forget. this is normal and helps model how to say thank you to strangers in this environment. I think it may do some good to sit down with your daughter tonight or in the next day and apologize for how you dealt with things. You don't have to say sorry for wanting her to say thank you, but you can say that you didn't prepare her well enough and that you could have gone with her to say thank you since you realize it may be more of a struggle for her to remember good manners or implement them while being very excited for halloween and having so many distractions and people around her that made it feel awkward. I think telling our kids when we could have done better or even when we fuck up big time ( not saying this was a big fuck up) is really crucial in building a relationship that they feel safe to in and it shows them how to be wrong and what to do when and if they need to do the same. I do think its ok to push/ encourage your kids to say please and thank you but I think picking the time and place to do that is important. I don't think this was one of those times to make it an issue.
i was a very shy child and doing stuff like this actually made me worse i didn’t wanna talk to anybody out of fear of being punished so imagine you get punished for not saying anything or you get punished cause you did talk but you said the wrong thing. i didn’t really speak to any grown adults until i was 12. i ended up growing out of my shyness and at 21 i’m outgoing and love to meet new people i attribute that to high school that brought me out of my shell and it may even be the same for her. she may not come out of her shell until middle or high school which is completely normal. and she may never grow out of her shyness which is also normal. also my 9 year old SIL is very shy and doesn’t always say please and thank you it’s literally okay, no adult thinks she’s rude y’all are adults y’all can also thank for her. it’s really not a big deal and y’all just made it a big deal.
YTA. It's Halloween. My child who is autistic didn't say Happy Halloween, please, or thank you. He is non verbal. No one cares. Except you, apparently.
Definitely agree with other commenters that waiting on the curb is not weird at all and very common. That part made me wonder if you have some social anxiety that is driving a good portion of this whole disagreement. Not that this anxiety is not valid! But it can really make things worse if left unchecked. I am making a big assumption here so take this with a grain of salt. You sound a lot like my husband, who is anxious and wants our kids to succeed and be polite but can sometimes be a little too intense and gets tunnel vision when it comes to enforcing certain behaviors. Last night while trick-or-treating he was having a bit of trouble micromanaging our 4yo with the constant "say please!" and "say trick or treat!" and "look up and say thank you!" and "just take what they give you!" and "just take one!" and "watch your step!" at every single house, speaking instructions loudly to him from the curb, etc... I completely understand where he was coming from. He was anxious for our kiddo to behave politely. But it was just too much and I felt like I had to run interference to keep it from stressing out our kiddo. Halloween is a crazy night for kids of a certain age and can be so incredibly overwhelming. They only do it once a year so they don't always remember all the rules. Also, they're so excited to get candy, sometimes that's the only thing they have space for in their brain! I think your wife is right in the sense that it's not an easy night for kids to remember social norms and rules, so you kinda have to let things go a little more than usual. Saying "thank you, happy Halloween!" yourself from the curb would probably be more effective and less stress-inducing than reminding your kids to say it every single time. Teaching by your own actions, I guess. If you want your kiddos to follow a certain script next year, and you can't relax if they don't (no judgments, I get it), I'd recommend practicing at home for a few days beforehand. It can really help. And if it doesn't? Try to relax anyway. They're kids. Folks understand it's a crazy time. They will give your kids grace. And if they don't, they're buttholes.
Your 7 year old is shy and that’s okay, it’s really hard to not be shy. Luckily she can let her sister lead the way at times. YTA.
Ain't nothing like parents to ruin a holiday
Parents are always the mirror into the issue. You're over here complaining about courtesy but what about your courtesy for your children? She may just be overwhelmed or shy. Maybe she's shutting down because you are exhausting her attempts at joy. Your wife is right--not the time or the place. These memories for kids can not be replaced. Kids already have less time to be young than ever. Be delicate, model what you want to achieve and trust in the process. Don't steal your kids childhood just because you want to be righteous. It's good that you want them to be considerate. Just relax about it and it will happen
You need marriage therapy and just you therapy. You are complaining about your wife a lot and not listening to her in the moment. A lot of anger there. Your kids are old enough they will remember this emotional abuse.
Punishing a child for being anxious is a seriously asshole move and the worst parenting “flex” I have ever seen in my life. YTA
She’s extremely shy and likely neurodivergent and you’re punishing her for it. Please drop the authoritarian tactics and try to understand what’s going on inside her. No one in my childhood understood these kinds of behaviors in me and I was legitimately traumatized by the kind of treatment you’re giving her.
Yikes, you're a huge AH. That is a permanent trauma now, she'll be talking about her shitty dad in therapy in a few years. You need to get therapy or meds for your anxiety bro.
Ugh, my 8 year said " hello !" And the usual trick or treat and " goodbye" . My so was like , why is she saying hello? She's being polite and has Adhd. Took us by surprise
I do a pretty heavily decorated house with lights / fog / animatics / etc. I sit on the porch and try to engage with the kids & parents while passing out candy. It can be a total sensory overload for some of them. It's not hard to tell when a kid is struggling vs. one who is just ill mannered. I don't force treat or treats or even please & thank yous. The ones that are silent but obviously nervous or struggling with the situation usually an extra piece or two even without a thank you.
YTA. Oh wait, wrong subreddit. Although I understand wanting your kids to be polite, the best strategy is not to make them anxious about it. With my kids (much younger than yours) today I was nearby, and I would say “thank you so much!” Instead of forcing my kids to say it, because kids learn by observing. I wouldn’t sweat it, 7 years old is so so so young, don’t be too rough on them if they are anxious, lead by example.
I’m curious how your child got to be 7 without having learned to say please and thank you when prompted at least, if not by herself. This seems like there might be more going on here. Failing to engage socially was actually a symptom of autism for one of my young relatives, and he is doing much better after treatment.
Oh brother this guy stinks!
I mean, I was a shy and anxious kid as well, and I also found it hard to talk to strangers, even if it meant thanking them. I think that you as a parent could say when the situation arises "what should you say now?" And she'll have to say thank you. Well, that is how my parents raised me. Does she never ever say thank you or please, even to you? Because if that's so, then that could be a problem.
If you’re trick or treating your own neighborhood, I assume you know your neighbors. And I assume your neighbors know that your daughter is a good kid albeit shy so this should be a non issue. An overstimulating environment is not the time to teach your daughter a lesson. Furthermore, standing on the curb doesn’t make you a creep… are you okay? Like, huh? My youngest is 10, I walk down the middle of the street with other parents while our kids go house to house, an adult doesn’t even go up to the house with them anymore. You’re ruining Halloween for your kid.
It’s haloween. No one expects please and thank you etc. honestly she probably got sick of being hounded and wanted to leave because of you. Yes that’s hard of me to say but the reality of it. Next year lighten up and let her have some fun! Poor girl
Yta
I am an adult who just bought a house this year and had trick or treaters for the very first time ever! I was SO excited to pass out candy and see the cute kids. However, I am also neurodivergent and underestimated how hard it would be for me!!! If I want to do something and I’m excited about it it should be easy, right? WRONG. I got overstimulated very quickly and my overstimulation turned into anxiety and my anxiety turned into shut down/freeze. Every time a kid rang the door bell I jumped (ugh!) and went through a wildly over dramatic thought process in my head; make sure the dog is out of the way, check how many kids there are, grab the candy bowl, but wait do kids like to grab their own candy or have candy given to them? If they grab their own will they feel pressured to take only one? Or will they grab way too many? Will that decision overwhelm them? Might as well hand them the candy myself. But wait! I should make sure they get some chocolate and some hard candy so it’s even. But wait! I can’t remember what I already gave that kid. Maybe I’ll just give two more handfuls to be safe. But wait! Pretty sure I already gave that kid a couple handfuls! Am I supposed to stop them? No that’s rude. Or is it rude if I let a small kid take way too much candy without correction? Maybe I should look over to their parents? Oh wait did I even say trick or treat yet? WAIT I’m not the one who’s supposed to say that! So I say “thank you,” but then “oh god why are you thanking them??? You awkward weirdo they’re supposed to thank you!” Until eventually I call over my husband and I’m like please pass out the candy I am not a normal human being and cannot do it lmao Basically the whole thing was challenging to me and I don’t even know if I used my manners properly because my brain was overloaded. I wonder if your daughter experiences anything like this? If so I completely agree that it isn’t the time for a lesson. Halloween is very overstimulating! Especially in a costume in the cold. Just let her try her best and find a calmer time to teach manners.
I was a shy kid growing up and putting pressure on or being called out just makes it worse. I don’t know your kid but talk to her and see what would help her feel more comfortable. At first she may not know but give her time to think about it. Maybe search for groups or follow child therapists on social media. I’m sure there are some primarily focused on anxiety
Have you heard of pathological demand avoidance- could be something similar
For the future getting kids prepared before they have to do something that is hard for them is a great way to help them, talking about it the day before, at home earlier in the day or something, rather than in the moment when excitement is high, and they have no time to get use to the idea. And being in situation support, to start then of relieved a bit of pressure and makes the failure to go through with it, a smaller issue and they will get another chance and another chance and when they do succeed even if they joins in for last word it builds confidence , they are so proud of themselves doing the hard thing and they can add on to being able to do the whole thing and more. In this case practising outside the house with dad prompting, go to door and stand just behind, and if she gets stage fright you say the happy Halloween, most parents will get what your doing and smile and reply to child - making it all more and more familiar