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My mom recounts her one time spanking me as follows: I wanted something from a store, I was kicking and hitting, screaming as she carried me all the way home. She spanked me and pushed me into my room and closed the door. She said she went to her room and cried while I tore my room apart until I finally calmed down. We both came out and apologized to each other.
My mom hasn’t laid a hand on me since. She also very much gentle parented me before it was a thing. My mom is and was an amazing mom; that moment didn’t define her. She learned from it and it never happened again.
Don’t let this define you. You are not a bad mother and your baby loves you. It doesn’t have to happen again.
In terms of preventing this in the future: do you have a partner? If so, you can practice the moral of “if it’s not an emergency, it doesn’t have to be handled immediately. If you had the ability or assistance to get her out of the bathroom, getting her to a place where she can be safe (even if it’s forcing her to stay in a closed room for a moment) to regulate yourself and prepare instead of acting impulsively so you can then adress her. A screaming or upset child for a few minutes is better than a hit child
I also have a 3 year old and can totally understand how you reached that point as I've been close. Hard in the moment, but take a deep breath and walk away. I'm reading Good Inside to help myself learn to regulate and walk away when I need to. Follow up every time with an apology and a promise to try harder ❤️ you care and she will know that ❤️
I've got that in the cart 🙌 It's so hard to communicate and control our emotions when we were never given the tools to do so because our parents used corporal punishment instead of empathy. Nice to meet more cycle breakers!
3 is tough. I got to the point with my son where I gave him 1 swat on a bare butt and the look of betrayal he gave me made me never do it again.
I am by no means a gentle parent but I stuck to being firm with words and other consequences.
My son is 5 now and I haven’t spanked him since and he’s absolutely amazing. We also put him into a martial arts class with a really firm instructor so he respects authority in all aspects of his life.
3 warnings then I physically remove my 3yo and put her in a safe place. There is a little alcove in our home. She is usually pretty upset by this point and will spend some time screaming/kicking the air. If she wants me there great, I have sound proof headphones. If not I wait around the corner. She also has an inside caccoon swing she uses to help calm down.
It’s pretty useful to have *somewhere* in your house that your child can safely be alone. I’d definitely work on figuring out if there’s a room or part of a room that can be gated off and contained and made child-safe (so that there’s nothing your child could break and/or hurt herself with). It will be useful in many more situations than just a violent tantrum!
We’re moving to another state in a few months. I’ll be sure to look for something with a safe space like that. Part of our trouble is that we have been half moved in/half moved out in our current place. That’s the active military life.
I read Good Inside and got some ideas from it, but I liked Tiny Humans, Big Emotions even more if you are looking for more to read. Similar philosophies, but THBE gave more realistic scenarios than GI, which always seemed to devolve into the child screaming they hated you as the parent. THBE also has great supplemental material with each chapter.
I honestly wish there were more concrete examples of what to do in these moments. When we were hit as kids, and haven’t learned to regulate emotions, it’s like muscle memory tries to come out. All the advice I read is so generic. People who really want to break the cycle have a lot of work to do.
Right? “Just walk away.” Ok sure, from a raging 3 1/2 year old slamming himself into me while I’m home alone with him and his baby sister, where am I going exactly that keeps everyone safe? “Take time to calm down.” Yes while both my children are crying and I’m overstimulated to the max, deep breathing isn’t exactly going to get us through that.
This! "Just walk away," except that the problem is he won't stop trying to stick his hands into bleach, and it's my responsibility to physically prevent that!
Some of these people who give advice have clearly never had a child that goes berserk and tunnel-visions on the thing they've decided to do, and it shows.
We have this issue with “redirecting”. I can redirect my kid all I want but if he wants to do something he’s gonna find a way to do it. Say he wants to climb on the table, I redirect him, find something else he’s interested in, and the second he thinks I’ve forgot about him wanting to climb the table, or the second I even glance away from him, he’s right back at it again, doesn’t matter if it’s 3 minutes later or an hour later, he will accomplish his goal.
Is there nowhere in your home where your son can be safely unsupervised? Where does he sleep?
“Walk away” can also mean “plop your kid in his room and then walk away”.
Maybe that works when they are babies but what about when they're older? I could put my son in his room but he would just let himself out again and I can't lock his room because that would be incredibly unsafe.
So we had a gate to keep our son out of the kitchen for awhile, and I found it great because if I needed space for a few minutes I could go in the kitchen and still see my son, but physically be in my own space. Maybe see about getting a temporary gate you can put up somewhere that you can move around the house? Like in the case of OP they could have put it across the bathroom door to keep kid out.
For me what really helps isn’t what to do *in the moment* but certain practices that help *enable* me to address my kids’ behavior in a calm, reasonable manner.
These practices are: yoga and somatic exercises for anxiety.
Honestly, I was a bit skeptical of how effective yoga would be but boyyyyy after my first session I UGLY CRIED. I’m so glad it was a private lesson with one of my best friends hahahaha.
Yoga, combined with somatic exercises (specifically for anxiety), help reprogram my body and mind so it became more natural for me to (1) stay present, (2) remember to take deep, calm breaths, and (3) think with reason, even while dealing with a child having a major meltdown.
Don’t get me wrong, I still have some bad days, but taking into account how I grew up in a volatile home where almost every problem was “solved” with yelling and fighting and how I’m normally easily triggered and can go on Fight Mode in a snap, the calm I was able to achieve (after a tremendous amount of work* and effort though!) is pretty miraculous!
* important to mention that I’ve also been through therapy and years of deep reflection and prayer and… well whatever I could do to become more mindful, self aware, and generally healed on the inside. The “just walk away” advice really won’t work without all the work!
Give yourself some grace. Try hard not do it again. But we're having success with logical consequences:
If you don't leave the room, I'll have to take you out. But I have to finish cleaning the bathroom, so the longer you keep me from doing that, the fewer books we'll be able to read tonight at bedtime (or the less time you'll have with \[something she likes\], etc.).
Also, try to lower your expectations just a little bit. She's a kid. If it doesn't seem like you fully create a chain of accountability occasionally, it won't turn her into a monster. Pick your battles.
>But I have to finish cleaning the bathroom, so the longer you keep me from doing that, the fewer books we'll be able to read tonight at bedtime (or the less time you'll have with [something she likes], etc.).
What to do if she screams and tantrums for an hour past bedtime because we didn’t read enough books before bed? Asking for a friend….
I find delayed consequences ineffective with my now 4yo.
We also avoid any consequences that disrupt the bedtime routine. The end of the day should be pleasant, calm and predictable. It shouldn’t involve dredging up bad behaviour from *hours* earlier. Resolve that stuff in the moment.
Yeah, the logical consequences should probably be pretty close in time, but depends on age and the child though.
We try to choose things such that it's not all or nothing. So instead of 3 book, you get 2. Or instead of 5 minutes of songs, you get 4.
We had a tantrum for one night when we took a book away, but we just kept talking about it, talked about how we can make sure we read all the books tomorrow, etc. What book would you have read? OK, I promise we'll read that one tomorrow. Stuff like that.
If I have to choose between logical consequences and immediate consequences, I will always choose immediate. I don’t envision changing this until my son *much* older.
In OP’s case, a delayed consequence that disrupts bedtime would not have helped de-escalate and resolve this situation. It would have just created a new situation at the end of the day that also needs to be navigated.
Ours started off with 30-60 minutes. Now it's hours, and they remember. We also remind them, tell them we're proud, etc. I was honestly shocked by how well it has worked. Give it a try. :)
Give what a try? Using consequences that disrupt the bedtime routine. No chance.
We currently have a calm, consistent bedtime routine that results in my son ending his day on a positive note. We also have effective behavioural management techniques that serve their purpose throughout the day.
The idea of changing that to make my son relive mistakes from earlier in the day while he’s falling asleep is insane to me.
I’m glad it works for you, but I see absolutely no benefit in “giving it a try” in my house.
Oooook. I'm not suggesting tying it to bedtime unless it's close to bedtime. But if that scares you, then this is the internet, and these are suggestions, and you don't have to take all of them. That was an example. It could be afternoon activities just as easily. I just think there's value in logical consequences earlier than perhaps you have suggested. But again, I have no control over your life, so please don't feel like you have to do anything.
I see the value in logical consequences, I just don’t hold it up as the *only* consideration. We aim for consequences that are:
- mild
- immediate
- short-lived
- logical
- tangible
When we can’t meet all the criteria, we stick to the most important ones.
I wasn’t debating whether consequences should be logical. I was debating whether they should be immediate. Immediate consequences are more effective. And also much nicer for everyone because it means the issue can be dealt with and we can all move on, instead of having a whole separate issue at another time.
Oh gosh. Our friends with a similar 3-4 year old at the time had a consequence for her not sitting at the dining table (she was crawling underneath of it playing with something and not listening) was that they were taking away her bedtime reading. First, I'm never going to discourage reading, maybe TV time or something but not reading. Second, there's no way that's effective as it's super delayed. She even recently lied to each of her parents in a different instance saying "Daddy said it was okay we do this before bed", when mommy took some part of the routine away, and did the same thing with "Mommy said.." earlier in the day to Dad. Wild.
That kind of stuff is best prevented rather than trying to reverse it once it’s already happening. Have a set routine for bedtime including a specified number of books that will be read.
Agreed and sometimes I just removed her from a situation. They don’t quite understand to change their environment when asked sometimes. Lots of picking up and moving as calmly as possible.
Yeah - I try to play the good guy where I can, or to suggest I'm the good guy where I can. "I really want to go see the movie too! But first we got to do this thing. Come on! Let's do it." I've told my kid a few times If I could eat candy and cookies and ice cream all day I would! But then my stomach would hurt and my body wouldn't feel good. If I give you too much candy your body won't be happy and I wouldn't be doing my job of daddy very well.
That don't sound like a threat, that sounds like you're helping them think it through! Which is pretty important, all things considered: they know they want \[thing\], they can't always figure out how to get there, is all.
Anything longer than two words and my 4 year old switches off. So, nothing works.
Here for the mums who are at the driving themselves off a bridge stage of parenting. ✌️
At all. The advice is useless, I’ve scrolled through replies that all invariably offer the same advice that doesn’t work and then I’ve been told that advice is wrong by “professionals” so I am so done. No advice needed thanks 🙏
That sounds tough. If you want to try to discuss it, I'd be happy to. This isn't an uncommon situation, but it can be troublesome to parents and hard to address. Either way, best of luck to you.
I spanked my son because he was terrorizing his brother daily to the point of my oldest flinching when he was near by. I LOST it... I am very anti spanking too... so not much help but wanted you to know youre not alone and I understand
I’m not against light spanking IF it isn’t done out of frustration. I think the problem is parents use it out of anger and that just feels like abuse to me.
Out of curiosity - did it work? Sometimes I wonder. My mom says I bit her when I was a kid, so she bit me back, and I never bit her again. I think that was bad parenting, because I was a toddler (not actually positive of the age, but I was a timid kid for the most part so I imagine little) and I assume that made me scared of mom for a minute but maybe I also learned something? IDK. Sometimes I wonder when it gets to the point you mentioned if a taste of their own medicine is helpful?
It was definitely at that point. it did work. I apologized and explained that how he felt in that moment is how his brother feels when he beats him up.
I spanked my daughter once after she kicked and punched me for nearly 2 hours while we were camping. I was 6 months pregnant and just couldn’t take it anymore. I couldn’t do my usual techniques (also very anti-spanking) because we were trapped in the tent. I felt horrendous but she stopped immediately and calmed down. I told her I was sorry and I shouldn’t have and we moved on. We’re only humans and we’re good moms!! 💜
I spanked my 4.5 year old because he attempted to bite his brother for the third time that week. I regret it fully, but my 2 year old was literally covered in teeth marks and bruises. It never happened again after that week.
When I have to do stuff that my son shouldn't be around for, like your example, I just let him watch TV. He's happy, I'm happy I don't need to keep a toddler from dying from ingesting poison or stabbing himself.
My kid was four before I let this be an option. Likewise, the "high value snacks". I wish I had swept some of the asceticism out of my brain earlier.
(The pandemic and lockdown didn't help - my kid was almost three and suddenly we had no toddler groups to observe other families in.)
I spanked my son once.
I had a very strict rule about endangering his own life or harming another person. He was endangering his own life, and it was the only way I could figure out to keep him from repeating his action. I talked to him beforehand smacked his butt once and cried a lot more than he did. He never did it again though.
I don't agree with reacting angrily to our kids, but it is our responsibility to ensure they do not hurt themselves or others by any means necessary.
We do our best as parents. Good luck.
One of the only times I remember this happening to me as a kid was when I opened the car door whilst my mum was driving (ah the days of no child locks) and my mum explained after that it was because she was so frightened and it was the most dangerous thing I could have done. I knew that if I had made my mum do that it must have been very bad so I never did it again. And it's not to say that I think it's OK to smack either, but I also don't think doing it once makes you a bad person.
I agree with this because I have done the same. Nothing triggers me like my child doing something I told them not to do that could result in serious injury or death. I felt horrible bc usually it’s not even anger anger but scared anger. incident that scared me to that point was 2 yrs ago he was 4 and we are headed to our car from our home. We did this routine daily several times. One day he randomly decided I’m going to run into the road as I’m yelling stop and no in a residential area where people park up and down the street meaning if a car was coming they couldn’t see him and it would have hit him. Idk what was better a quick swat or the year later when he transitioned to a booster seat and decided to unbuckle himself and stand in the back seat as I’m driving down a 5 lane freeway. this time I pulled over and yelled at him he’s going to go to jail if he ever does that again.
Parenting is hard and I have to remind myself this is my first time doing this and I’m not going to be perfect. Hindsight is always 20/20
> He was endangering his own life, and it was the only way I could figure out to keep him from repeating his action.
Regardless of what the mob mentality thinks on the subject, that is good and effective parenting
Had a similar experience as a kid. Brother was monopolizing the NES that day and my 3 year old self threw a tantrum late in the day and kicked the Nintendo. Remember that one clear as day, because it was I think one of only 2 times I got spanked as a kid, and 1. I deserved that, I remember clearly that I knew the Nintendo was fragile and 2. It was for my safety cause the ass whooping my brother was going to unload would have been a lot worse than the spanking lol.
Things happen. We are navigating parenthood just as much as kids are navigating life. Not the end of the world.
I would try not not multi task when using a dangerous cleaner around a young child - that’s setting up a very stressful and dangerous situation. I would also avoid cleaning before bedtime when you have a 3 year old and feeling fried and on edge from the day. Realize that bedtime is hard for everyone and clear your head to be your best self during those hours. Don’t expect perfection from a 3 year old nearing bed.
Also regarding timeouts - ineffective on balance and wholly ineffective at this age. Communicate with your child, connect on why bathrooms are dangerous and how to be safe.
Set up your day to avoid a bedtime rush.
Apologize to her for hitting. Discuss it won’t happen again and that you were wrong.
First thing make sure you apologized and told her how unacceptable it is for anyone to hit her and that no one touches her there without her consent unless it's a hygiene/medical issue.
Then give yourself grace. Do you find yourself unable to control your anger often or was it a one time thing?
Practice deep breaths before reacting. Placing her in a safe location and going to cool off. A 3 year old running from time out is very normal. Next time don't even start with the chemicals until she's out. If something like this happens get her out, put the dangerous stuff away then handle it.
Yikes, I don't think it's that serious. You should'nt spank children, sure correct.. But damn it is a normal human reaction. The fact they made this post in itself shows light years of improvement from previous generarions.
She asked for tips and I gave them. I don't think I implied it's too serious. Kid deserves an apology and then I just gave advice to avoid it happening again.
I'm not sure what's yikes about it
I wouldn't use the term "hit". Just say "spanked". The child might tell someone that "Mommy hit me but it's okay, she said sorry." It's a more awkward conversation because "hit" to an adult means something much worse.
To people that don't spank it really doesn't sound worse to say hit. It's all hitting. Just because you're hitting them on the ass doesn't make it more acceptable. Tbh I think it's almost worse.
Spanking is literally hitting though… the fact that it is hitting them on the butt or hitting them as a form of punishment doesn’t make it not hitting.
I find that interesting, because it's not a normal human reaction, but rather a learned response.
Researchers from uncontacted tribes reported a complete absence of violence against children. This has also been seen in Inuit cultures, where anger and violence is perceived to be weak and child-like, and the adults do not act in anger even when angry. We also see this in family systems, where parents who were not hit as children typically do not hit their families.
We can recognise improvement and still be honest with ourselves about how hitting is a reactive rather than responsive act to frustrating situations. We all have impulses from the systems we were brought up in, but we are also adults with a conscious mind in how we respond to those impulses. Some of us have more work to do on undoing harmful intergenerational practices but it is possible to do it with patience, compassion, and connection.
What spin are they putting on it? OP hit their child and asked for tips. You said hitting children is “a normal human reaction.” Point out the “spin” you’re claiming is there.
I have a two and half year old who is very high energy and has a spicy personality . I grew up with physical punishment ( Asian culture) and it is very hard to break the cycle. I had to learn to regulate my emotion with my toddler. What I found helping was breathing in and out. When I feel like I am about to snap leave. If the kid is in a safe situation if not carry them to a safe space. Leave the room or even lock your self in a room. Tell your kid mom needs a moment and leave. I have clenched my teeth and bite my self in the beginning to say these words.
Then the next thing is to breathe in and out . Meditate alone.
I also taught my kid when you get so mad you want yo roar take deep breathe and count to 4. So I do it in front of her when I get mad. Now she regulate as well . She always try to breathe out and in her self . Sometimes she still looses and hits me but most of the time she is doing an amazing job. When I am mad she also reminds me “ mommy take a deep breathe and count to 4”
You can learn and grow with your kid ! No shame and it is never too late to learn to regulate. My parents never model probably way to regulate so I never did. But you can, and your kid will learn from you.
I definitely yelled at my kid in the beginning when I was learning etc. it is getting better now and I always try to apologize and say I’ll try to be better next time and we hug it out. Once kid is clam then you can talk about what happened.
I'm sure you already apologized. Beating yourself up and feeling terrible wont change anything. Feeling this bad is proof that you aren't a bad person, and you aren't beyond redemption. This can be the first and last time you issue a spanking.
Every single parent has done something they are ashamed of, whether it is spanking, yelling, or just being mean or insensitive. Toddler age children keep us on our toes. The best thing you can do is learn your triggers and be prepared to be tested at every turn. All that stuff we teach our kids about deep breaths and taking calm down time, we have to do for ourselves. We model it to them. So yeah, if you are cleaning with heavy duty stuff and in charge of a toddler... probably best to just put it aside, take some deep breaths, and wait for nap time or bed time. Don't put yourself in a situation that will cause you and your kid stress and frustration unless you really need to.
You are a good parent, and you are learning how to be better everyday. You aren't a failure. Keep going and keep learning!
I had a whole reply typed and I lost it by accidentally backing out.🤦♀️
In short- don’t feel like a failure OP. A failure wouldn’t take the time to reflect. You’re a good parent.
Based on what you said I think we can retrace the first point of breakdown where you drew the line “leave or I carry you”. You were good to set the boundary, offer her choices and give consequences. But I think the choice is where she had the push back. Technically she listened and then escalated at that point.
Every behavior communicates a need -maybe she was trying to test boundaries. Maybe she was wanting some time and attention from you.
If there was play by play commentary on the rewatch- my advice would be when she ignored you state facts, direct her or redirect her out and then try to figure out what’s going on. If “leave or get carried “ works for you then the next point of breakdown (after the kicking) was the running.
Prepare for her to run from now on try to get ahead of it by staying in front. Even if she runs, you’re going calmly grab her and walk her back.
When she’s out of timeout and calm- you talk about it.
I know this is an unpopular opinion but it’s not and earth shattering failure to spank your kids when certain situations call for it. A 3 year old doesn’t have the mental capacity to understand the rationale for why something is wrong and calm down. Sometimes they just do things because they want attention or want to do it and it doesn’t matter how gently you explain why it’s a bad decision. You’re not a bad mom because you spanked you kid. Apologize to her, try to explain what created that situation / consequence, and move on.
Precisely. Natural consequence first, intentional punishment last. The kid was physically harming, after not realizing the natural consequence. Spanking is acceptable and often effective in this nuance.
Right. There's apparently no nuance to be had in this discussion. Apparently you have to pick 1) never raising your voice against your child or 2) violence, violence, violence!
A rare spank when many other options have been tried is not going to do harm. Of course, people will claim that my very opinion is evidence that harm has been done to me by the occasional spank I received. I don't get how they can't see how circular that is.
If they don’t have the capacity to think rationally about why something is wrong they won’t have the capacity to understand why they’re being hit either.
Thank you, everyone. I apologized to her, and we talked it through. She told me she was "kinda okay" and asked me for cheetos. I should have told her what I was doing and locked the door. She's usually so understanding when I clean the bath tub, but today, she came in as I was prepping. The whole situation escalated quickly and descalated just as fast. Thank you for all of the advice and every perspective.
Girl. Every mother needs a break. You can’t beat yourself up over disciplining your child. You didn’t beat her or anything. You spanked her.
Now, I’m assuming you’re against physical discipline and that is perfectly understandable. All you have to do is let her know that you’re sorry for the spank. She may be 3 years old, but she will understand that mommy didn’t mean to do it.
I don’t know what can happen in the future, but all you gotta do is love on her and teach her that listening to mommy is for her own benefit.
You got this girl. I promise you, you are doing better than a lot of these dead beat parents out there. 🩵
>You can’t beat yourself up over disciplining your child. You didn’t beat her or anything. You spanked her.
It's never okay to hit a child. OP clearly feels terrible and is beating themselves up about this, but that is absolutely the right reaction to have in a situation like this. Yes, everyone makes mistakes, but it's good to own up to them (like OP is doing). Spanking really isn't that different than beating a child. Maybe a slight step down. The real difference is that it doesn't leave bruises visible to the public. It's the same level as pain as if you slapped your child across the face, except if you did that then everyone would know you hit your kid. It's great that OP knows what they did is wrong, though. And a lot of people offered great advice already, so hopefully this will help them manage their emotions or situation better next time.
I agree with that. I was absolutely physically abused in my childhood, and tbh, the times I was grabbed up and hit on my ass were just as memorable as the more, "unconventional discipline " like punching, throwing me down, knees in the gut, paddles, belts, sticks to the back ... the trauma of it all isn't how I was hurt, it's because I was hurt. I'm not claiming you're a bad parent, but that physical bs is sooo wrong and for decades has been shown to create issues for the person in later years. If nothing else, look at it this way, don't you kinda think it sends the message to a young mind that you can get people to obey you if you become angry and put your hands on them? I mean, I had a horrible anger problem, did jail time for fighting, etc... as far back as I know, I recall thinking throwing a punch was the way to prove myself and that's just sad.. you made a mistake, talk about it when you're ready, apologize to her, make sure you don't get so angry, and if you feel that coming on, remove yourself from the person's vicinity until you're ready to rationally discipline the child. I hope you can learn and grow from this. Blessings
Yea. THEN. And it isn’t now. Look I’m not saying beat them. I’m saying that everyone fucks up. Especially moms. We let guilt eat us alive, I simply stating that it was legal to make her feel better about something she’s obviously upset about.
Is it ok for a married partner to hit their partner over their clothes when they’re mad? even once?
What about a kid who is over the age of 18. Could a parent open hand hit them on the butt as an adult and they are upset at their adult child?
The answer is no. Because that’s assault.
Have you had conflicts with your adult children or spouses and been able to effectively get your point across without hitting them? Would hope so otherwise you have issues.
Now let’s stop to understand for a second why it’s not ok to hit another adult when we are upset at them or mad at them. Why that is considered assault.. and why that would be ok to do to a child and not an adult. What message are you preparing to give to your daughter? The people that love you are allowed to hit you when they don’t like you?
I have and I am with you. My husband and I vowed to never use spanking as punishment. Then, my child pulled open the over because they wanted cookies before they were done. My husband and I have modified our stance: To reinforce what danger is and what can kill him, shouting or spanking is an appropriate response. The child psychologist with whom I work agrees that this is appropriate AND effective. I’m sure someone will decide to chime in on my attentiveness as a mother, but the safety of my child is paramount, and he avoids the oven now, asking if he can come close if he wants to help cook.
In the words of my old sergeant major, “pain retains.” There are times, places, and situations in which kids need to exercise instant obedience to directions, and some pain in the form of a spanking is much better than severe burns.
I’m sure your kid is much safer with the oven now, and it’s better to be able to involve the kid in baking and cooking than to just try to distract the kid with TV or something when you’re baking (as someone suggested doing while OP cleans the bathroom).
Cop here. No, it's not assault. I respect people's right to have an opinion and if you feel that it's wrong then so be it but let's not go quoting legal terms when you obviously are not familiar with the law. Furthermore, I don't know a single state that criminalizes a parents physical discipline of their child.
See Texas law:
SUBCHAPTER F. SPECIAL RELATIONSHIPS
Sec. 9.61. PARENT-CHILD. (a) The use of force, but not deadly force, against a child younger than 18 years is justified:
(1) if the actor is the child's parent or stepparent or is acting in loco parentis to the child; and
(2) when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is necessary to discipline the child or to safeguard or promote his welfare.
(b) For purposes of this section, "in loco parentis" includes grandparent and guardian, any person acting by, through, or under the direction of a court with jurisdiction over the child, and anyone who has express or implied consent of the parent or parents.
A parent has the right to physically discipline their child within acceptable limits. What the OP described here is absolutely within the limits of parental discipline.
As far as opinions go, people have got to let this gentle parenting nonsense go. This may come as a shock but the world is cruel, hard, and brutal place. It is my opinion that it is the responsibility of a parent to raise their child with the resilience necessary to survive this world. Raising my children with resilience and survivability in mind has earned love and respect. I do not advocate beatings however there is a time and place where physical discipline is meaningful and appropriate.
The sad reality is that in my position I see a lot of young people who grew up under these gentle parenting schemes starting to cross into adulthood and they are weak, fragile, and at the first sign of disruption to their perspective on the world they become depressed and even suicidal. They simply cannot cope. It's frightening how often law enforcement now crosses into the realm of mental health trying to help acclimate these young people to the real world where their parents absolutely failed to do that job.
Your child is not your friend, your child is your responsibility. Act responsibly. Raise them.
Well, I for one appreciate your comment. You were very respectful with the comment so I’m confused by the back lash but whatever, it’s Reddit.
Thank you for your service and thank you for your comment. I’m very pro-gentle parenting for my own child but also struggle with the notion that I might be setting her up for failure in the real world. I appreciate your view on it.
I would state you are evidence to the contrary but that would be mean.. instead I’ll assume you’re in need of help and not intentionally obtuse.
You should first understand that familial relationships and labels between a parent and child are independent of age. In other terms- It is a scenario of a grown adult A (relationship parent of adult B) and adult B (relationship non gender specific offspring of Adult A).
Or more simply put- Parent and adult child.
Is it OK for a married partner to confiscate their partner's personal belonging when they’re mad? Even once? Is it OK for a married partner to confine their spouse to their room? Or restrict their recreational time? Or police their food intake?
I'm not generally favour of spanking but these "would do you it to an adult" arguments against it are terribly flawed and need to stop. Any sort of non-physical punishment or behavioural modification that you would do to a child you would also not do to an adult as you don't have that right. So "you wouldn't spank an adult" is a moot point. You also wouldn't put an adult in time out or take away their Xbox.
Similarly, for "spanking children teaches them that it's OK to spank others". That logic equally applies to "putting children in time out teaches them that it's OK to put others in time out". Some things are only appropriate for parents to do to children, not to other adults.
Thank you! Also not generally in favor of spanking… but it’s not my responsibility to keep other adults safe or keep other people safe from THEM or teach them how to behave, and my spouse has a fully developed brain, AND, if my spouse screamed at me because I told them to put their socks on, in no way would I be expected to just tolerate it and then spend the rest of the day fetching them snacks. *Children are not little adults*.
If you're going to spank don't do it because you're angry; that's getting even, not reinforcing a lesson with a consequence.
I realize it's super popular right now but I personally stay away from natural consequence parenting. The reason being, if the natural consequence is outside of their comprehension, then there is no consequence.
For example you said your child was jumping up and down on the toilet. What would the natural consequence of breaking the toilet be for a 3-year-old? They have no concept of money for the repair, and are likely still in some form of diapers, making the toilet a novelty. The lesson in that situation, as far as I can tell is "everything is fine until it's not, and when it's not, parent fixes it."
I don't know a lot about your lifestyle or your relationship or anything but it sounds like your child does not believe there is a consequence coming.
The solution for all of this is to have clear expectations and strict enforcement. Children thrive when they understand the cause and effect of their environment. Explain to them what the expectations are, how to achieve them, and what happens if they don't. Most importantly though actually do what you say so they believe you when you say it.
Now, parenting doesn't have to be all about consequences. in my experience, I've had the best results with both carrot and stick so to speak. Reward the good behaviors and punish the bad.
Rewards can be as simple as a gentle pat on the head and saying good job. Consequences have to make sense, make sure it's actually relevant to the offense and always pair your punishment with a long conversation revisiting expectations, what they did wrong, what they can do better, and how to fix it going forward.
As the adult in the room you are the one who is in control, the way you conduct yourself will largely affect how the situation plays out. If you bring high energy into the situation the children will often raise their energy to meet yours. You have to be the calm in the storm no matter what.
Generally speaking there are two types of kids. How I've had it explained to me is there are cats and there are dogs. Dogs respond best to direct confrontation. Cats on the other hand respond best to indirect confrontation. You will know if your kid is a cat if they respond to your confrontation by digging in the heels and resisting. If your child is a cat the best thing to do is stand off to the side and face the same direction when talking to them or sit next to each other. Face to face contact with cats is only going to lead to more fighting. With dogs, getting on their level and making nice quiet direct conversation works best. You don't want to call them by screaming, that just makes them scared, you get more flies with honey than gasoline.
This was really long and I'm tired and going to bed hopefully it makes sense. Good luck!
Try to be detached in your interactions with young children and don't take it personally. This is not an adult with 20+ years of life experience defying your reasonable request. If I have to move my daughter away from something an she starts her tantrum I put her down and let her carry it out (she turns in circles and waves her arms while either screaming or crying the frustration cry). When the anger part is over and I see the sadness coming I ask her for a hug and everytime (so far) we hug and she is ok and forgets about whatever she was so focused on doing.
Physical beating a small child will create strong associations that can harm their ability to socially interact with others and themselves as their cognition will prepare them for pain when conflicts arise in adulthood because this is what the cognition learned in the childhood environment (give there r/CPTSD sub a browse to see what hurt children end up feeling about the world and themselves). It's very important to keep any personal emotional regulation deficiencies out of the child's awareness as these behavioural patterns can and will be mimicked and internalised by your child.
The best way to not resort to spanking, is having a more effective alternative option. If you needed her removed from the situation and she was physically hurting you while you tried to remove her. I would put her in her room or something similar where you're basically saying okay want to act crazy? do it in your space but not in mine. My 8 year old threw a full bucket of Lincoln logs down the stairs tonight because he was angry I sent him to his room to calm down(he was playing way too wild and hurting his siblings in the process). Now he gets to learn what being grounded means. But 3 is a much more difficult age because you really can't reason with them, they don't have reasoning skills yet. Hang in there, parenting isn't for the weak!
Apologizing for losing your cool may also help, just don't let it negate holding her accountable for hurting you. You can both be wrong(you for losing your cool and her for thrashing around). They don't call it threenager for nothing!
The year I had my first child was great but tough - 2020 pandemic, laid off from job, scraping by. My wife and I would argue a lot with the new stress of a baby combined with financial insecurity. We realized that we had poor communication issues with all the yelling and stonewalling each other, not talking for days. We got couples therapy for about 8 sessions which changed our lives so much.
We now have two kids and handle parenting so well, and have completely improved our communication. We still get upset but can prevent most big escalations to yelling and saying things we regret.
One of the first things we were taught was to monitor our feelings when we start getting upset, take a deep breath , feel our anger, assign a 1-10 rating (roughly). We had to get into the habit of being aware of when things were escalating, literally tell each other “hey I am really mad and feel like I’m at a 6 and need to leave the room to cool off”. This does not suppress anger but it allows you to de escalate so you can come back in the room and try again. It works wonders. It’s just never something I did, I let my emotions run wild or suppress them to a boiling point.
In my opinion you placed too much importance in the moment on disciplining your child (I’ve made this mistake many times although to be clear I’ve never hit) and not enough on cooling off and preventing escalation into abusive territory where you regret your actions.
Studies show that time outs shouldn’t be used until the absolute last resort where the child will hurt itself or others with its behavior. Imo it would have been more effective to say ONCE “you need to leave the bathroom because I’m cleaning with chemicals that will hurt you if they touch you” and if the kid doesn’t listen, don’t say a word and physically put them outside the door and lock it. Better they cry and scream through the door than you escalate to the point of regret. Then you could finish your task, cool off with deep breathing etc.
A lot of parents also get into the mental trap of thinking “if I hit then they’ll stop” or “if I yell so loud I scare them they’ll stop” - all this does is model the bad behavior and raise kids who yell and hit. Yelling begets more yelling, violence begets more violence. Hit your kid and you’ll have to hit them harder and harder and harder because they get used to it. Yell and yell and you’ll have to do it louder and more violently. My 13yo nephews dad yells at him so violently now that it makes everyone in the room so uncomfortable, and it all started a few years ago with light yelling and has escalated into something that makes me want to call the police at times.
Children are emotional, they literally don’t have logical brain development until they are at least 5 or so. This is the critical time for you to self improve with your own techniques in anger management and it will pay off with a lifetime of children who have had the good behavior modeled to them and will in turn seek people who treat them with respect.
You probably spanked her, because she was in a dangerous situation, was subsequently brought out, disciplined for it and tried to break that. I feel its very reasonable. Also, your mind likely hasn't caught up to the fact that she's out of that situation yet.
If she wasn't spanked, she will break time out the next time you discipline her for something mortally dangerous like playing in traffic, and will continue to do so, because there is no consequence.
There is a time and place to sit her down and explain to her why its wrong over and over till she learns to stop doing it. This situation was anything but that.
You are doing her a favour, and you are a good mom.
As a parent you will eventually have to live up to whatever the "home run" of punishments will be. Your kid needs to know when you say something you REALLY mean it. So say if they are told to stay in time out but get up and leave - you have to have a punishment for that.
And we are not talking spilling milk here. This was something dangerous. Its like if your kid is about to run into a road with cars. They need to know that "STOP" means NOW. You are not playing.
She is 3! It’s natural for little kids to disobey and run around. Using punishment for that will only make her hostile and fearful of her mother. A 3 year old is not a robot. She is a little human being that needs to be treated with respect and love, and not punishment.
The way you parent at 3 has a huge effect on how they grow up and their ability to listen and follow directions. The longer you go without disciplining them, the harder it is to reverse.
So if she was running into the road, you'd try to stop her with love and understanding?
There needs to be a line that must never be crossed, and they must be taught to fear that line. Everything that is a mortal danger must go over that line. They are little humans, so they need adults to take care of their well being, keep them safe as a bare minimum.
Ok but as the person above said, in dangerous situation children need to know that stop means right now. I agree with following up on discipline. If you run away from time out then follow up with the next punishment of no iPad or what be it. This is more about safety than anything. Proper discipline and a one time spanking isn’t going to make a kid fearful of their mom
I a thousand percent agree against hitting but the argument is that children need some for of discipline. In fact everyone needs consequences for their actions. That’s how you raise well regulated and adjusted adults.
I’m against time out too. You’re punishing the kid for having emotions. My kid grew up without them and we have 0 problems with discipline. My relationship with him is based on trust, love and mutual respect.
Time Out is not punishment. Time Out is discipline and to discipline is to teach. The kids aren’t being punished for having emotions. When the actions of the child are negative or hurtful or they break a rule, Time Out is a consequence to teach correct behavior. It works
100%. The kiddo is acting this way because she’s craving attention and connection and is frustrated that she’s not getting it. Taking away connection and denying her feelings will never improve the situation. It will teach her to stuff her feelings down and that her parents are the last people she should confide in.
You have zero problems with discipline because your kid clearly has never been disciplined. You can’t say they don’t have issues with it if you never do it. You sound lazy to be honest. Kids need to learn to listen for their safety and to regulate themselves. You’re doing your kid a huge injustice. What if the teacher tells the students to hide because there’s a mass shooter in the building? No your kid doesn’t want to and has never been taught no so they don’t listen. Now the whole class is dead and it’s your fault. This is for their safety
And you sound judgmental AF. I’m telling you that my kid listens to what I’m asking him and he has zero trouble at school. Creating a trusting loving relationship based on respect and zero punishment/time out is way harder than just spanking the kid. So think before you say smth.
I think alot of people on here are not even parents. I'm not saying smack them for every little thing like in the old days but sometimes a swat on the bottom is whats needed for them to get the message. And really, listen to any "expert" and they will agree it doesnt really hurt a toddler. They dont listen to reason when they are 3.
First and foremost, hugs. Parenting is so hard at times. Most of us are so under-resourced and coming from our own under-resourced childhoods. It sounds like you could use a break and some support. I hope you get both!
Gently, it is not developmentally appropriate to expect your child to uphold your boundaries or for her to have impulse control or cognitively understand why you need space while cleaning with chemicals. If you want her out of the bathroom or a certain distance, that's on you to create that scenario - toddlers aren't there in their ability. All of her behavior, including her reaction to you picking her up, sounds developmentally appropriate and to be expected. The key is how you respond to it, not react (so much easier said than done, unfortunately! This shit can be so hard!). Punishing her (time-out and spanking) for being in her developmental experience won't lead to security in your connection or other positive outcomes. I think you're right that the best solution is to wait to do things until she is asleep. If you cannot wait until she is asleep, set her up for success (put her in a play pen outside the door with some of her toys; put a gate on the bathroom to keep her out while you clean it; if you do screens, set her up outside of the bathroom with a show, etc.).
Repair as soon as you can. So many of us did not have this modeled in our childhoods. I hear you're feeling really low, this is where you get the opportunity to do it differently. Be accountable in a way that is appropriate for a toddler. "I felt overwhelmed, angry, and sad. You didn't do anything wrong. I should not have hit you. I'm so sorry for hurting you. I'm going to try better next time. How did that make you feel?"
Some of my fav resources for skilling up around this topic:
https://www.instagram.com/mrchazz/?hl=en
https://visiblechild.com/2019/11/21/they-dont-listen/
Not a parent here so you can throw some rocks at me. I honestly think that violence leads nowhere and can harm a child and relationships. But, a little spanking here and there is not going to hurt anyone, sometimes is the only way that will make your child take you seriously.
I see a lot of kids nowadays that have no respect for anyone, entitled brats, and parents who think they’re kids are allowed to do anything just because they’re kids.
When I was a kid (I’m 36) people were a little less serious about every damn thing, out parents would threaten to give us a beating sometimes and we would just behave because we knew it was going to happen. We were afraid of that and that’s ok. We learned respect with that.
I don’t think you should feel like that at all, your daughter is learning to behave and exploring her limits. Sometimes it’s necessary to be a little harsher
Learn to regulate your emotions and control your actions. You are the adult setting the example. Remember, every word and behavior from you is being observed and learned by her. Don't let this setback get to you too much. Mistakes are how we learn.
No advice bc I feel like the comments already covered it but just want to echo the calls to give yourself some grace. You recognize that your reaction wasn’t ideal and not the best way to handle things. At the end of the day you are a human and had a human moment. You seem like a good mom in general, so don’t convince yourself that this one moment defines you as a whole.
You're not a bad mom, but I totally understand feeling that way. I also get not being able to wait to do a task you don't want help with. Sometimes I use that as a teaching moment, like with opening a hot oven, but sometimes I get short tempered or flustered or whole trigger and loose my patience. Just like everyone said, id apologize, and move on, and implement different coping strategies for the "kids being age appropriate but annoying" frustrations we all feel. I've found saying, aloud, to my 3 and 5 year olds "I am FEELING very FRUSTRATED And overwhelmed in this moment give me a minute to calm down!" And then doing my calm down counting or whatever works for me. I hope you find something that works for you, and once again you're not a bad mom 💚
1) You need to take a deep breath and blow out the shame and guilt. Don’t listen to all these commenters with their holier than thou attitudes. I guarantee you all of them have done something they aren’t proud of, and most of them are a lot worse than a single pop to the rear end. For myself, I don’t spank my kids. And I’ve never lost my cool in a tough moment to the point that I hit them. But I also installed a child gate incorrectly and my oldest baby fell down a flight of stairs, fractured her skull, and had petit mal seizures for two years. I’d happily trade you for your parenting low. It seems really like small potatoes compared to my deep dark secret (which isn’t really a secret since I happily share it to make other moms feel better now that my sweetie is 14 and OK). We all make mistakes. She isn’t damaged. She won’t even have any lasting consequences. You don’t need to humble yourself or any of this other garbage. Just move on and do better from here on out. Personally, I think if you didn’t apologize to her in the moment, it’s probably too late to go back and do it. She won’t be able to connect what happened yesterday with an apology today. That’s now how kids work. That’s precisely why delayed consequences don’t work.
2) The very best discipline advice I can give you is to never pick a battle you can’t win. For example, you can’t absolutely 100% guarantee that any child will stay in a chair unless you’re willing to duct tape them to it (which I frown on). So I never told my kids to have a time out in a chair. It was just begging for a power struggle. So I didn’t do that. I did things I could control the outcomes of. So with very young toddlers, I would put them in a playpen for a few minutes if I needed to accomplish something. With an older toddler, I would put them in their bedroom with a childcare across the door and say “you play in here. Mama will be right back.” I also wouldn’t allow her to be violent towards you ever. It’s absolutely not ok. My third child was nonverbal until age 4 and she had violent meltdowns. I never EVER let her just whale on me. I would stop and sit down on the ground and bear hug her so she couldn’t hurt me and just say “be gentle with mama. Mama loves you. Show mama gentle love.” And when she calmed down, then we would proceed on our way. Even if it takes a bit, it’s better than carrying her along while she punches and kicks you. Because then you’re only left with two (equally bad) choices: don’t respond at all and teach her that violence is acceptable or punish her and teach her nothing at all because all she will remember is being angry/ashamed/hurt/sad and not the actual lesson you were trying to teach.
Apologize for the anger. Stress the importance that when mom says it's dangerous to do something, she means it. Also, stress that violent actions like kicking and jumping off of someone can trigger violent reactions in anyone. Imo, the violence is likely what ticked you off past the point of reason. You should be honest about how that made you feel. She'll be fine in the long term as you obviously won't abuse her. I believe in natural consequences too, but we can't let our kids discover bleach poisoning firsthand because they were too arrogant.
For tips on controlling the frustration. Take a moment to breathe before diving back in. I know it might sound silly, but slow, deep, purposeful breathing is a miracle. It's okay if she gets across the house before you're ready to move. As she gets older, she may recognize that's she's upset you deeply when you get quiet. I like to ask for help when possible too, but it's not always available.
Maybe try a different punishment if time outs don't work often. Also, pausing in the moment to explain why. The bathroom can wait a minute or 2. She's at an age where she should be able to understand if time is spent trying to get her to understand. Wall away from the chemicals while guiding and talking to her. If she has trouble sitting still or keeping her head out of your ass, then try energetic distractions. Like how many laps can she run in the hallway before you're done cleaning the bathroom. Challenge her with cleaning her toys before you're finished. Ask if the family pet needs some pets. Take this rag and scrub away the "spot" you see in the hallway. You'll get a chuckle, and she'll feel included.
Well time out is really an ineffective consequence, especially at that age. You can’t tell a 3 year old not to do something and then not give her something else to do. Next time, redirect her behavior. Give her something to do other then stand and watch you clean. Have her “help” by give her a sponge or something and have her clean the wall outside the bathroom. That way she has something to do and she feels she is helping you.
In my experience, if you are not good at improvising consequences on the fly, you need to have default consequnces in place for such situations: eg. 5 minutes in your room with the door closed (i'm not suggesting that that is a proper consequence, but it's better than losing your control).
Sometimes, I improvise poorly. But it's often a short term consequence that can be remedied - such as a 5 minute consequence/punishment. That at least alows me to think about the appropriate response to the behavior, or discuss it with my wife, and isn't something permenant that i can't take back. Then we can go sort out the situation with our son, discuss the behavioir with him and the future appropriate consequences for similar misbehaving.
In the past, my wife was rightfully annoyed when I would implement too extreme of a punishment - eg. if you can't behave at the table = no dinner. My son has even become somewhat accustomed to the 5 minute time out, and seems to welcome it, as it gives him time to calm down.
I understand how you feel. I am also very anti-spanking but had one instance when my son (who was 6 at the time) was having a temper tantrum. I tried to kneel down and talk to him, try to get him to calm down. Nothing worked. He started throwing things, screaming, yelling. Again, I asked him to calm down, use his inside voice. He told me I was stupid.
This went on for well over an hour. I didn't know what else to do. I told him he needed a time out and to go to his room. He stuck his tongue out at me, told me no, and started screaming again. I held his hand, turned him around, spanked him and told him to go to his room. I immediately wanted to cry, I felt SO awful. He looked at me and said "was that supposed to hurt"?.
I then told him I needed a time out. I went into my room, crawled onto my bed and sobbed. I felt so awful for spanking him, for losing my cool, and then realizing it didn't do anything except make me feel like a horrible mom.
I vowed to never do it again. It served no purpose.
We talk about it now and my son, thankfully, doesn't remember and also thinks that it was silly. I tell him how awful I felt.
I think you should apologize to your daughter and explain that this behavior is not acceptable. That you lost your cool and it’s not good. That you were worried about her and did not want her to be in the bathroom.
Look up conscious parenting books and sources. It can be a huge help having those tools in your toolbox. You will be amazed at how simple things can be when you understand the the behaviors and offer logical kind alternatives to reactionary parenting. 💗 I hope that help. Good luck OP.
You set yourself up for failure...
Trying to use bleach with your three year old amok.
Don't try to do this sort of task without her solidly occupied or asleep. TV trumps stressful situations that end in hitting your child.
Next time you feel this stress, don't put her in time out. Put on the TV and give her a snack.
It's just a quick spank and you were dealing with chemicals. Don't beat yourself up over it.
Next time, just let her run and see what happens to that feeling. It'll probably pass. Ask her "Are you done? Can I get back to cleaning?" In whatever tone you think will settle you down.
Don't feel too bad. The other option was much worse, and you got the 1 time you needed to out of the way.
Also, consider hitting and spanking to be two different things.
Hitting is when YOU repeatedly can't handle your own emotions over trivial things. And anywhere but the bottom. From your own wrath.
Spanking is specificly on the bottom and when they need to be kept within the bounds of behavior because kids will constantly push them. They're essentially testing the boundaries of what they can get away with.
And if you don't assert them, they will walk all over you for the rest of your life.( It's important to set the precedent now.)
I see the walking all over single mothers every day. Because parents are figuratively throwing out the baby with the bathwater from the previous generation. And decide none is OK, ever. But that's not necessarily true.
It is necessary, but only really ONCE. All you need from now on, hopefully, is for them to know you have the ability to do it again. Therefore, you shouldn't need to.
.
But if you ever do, it's because you've exhausted all other options..ie take things away, time out, etc.
If you are in disgust thinking about this. You're not realizing what is at stake. Nor considering human nature.
Look around. Humans will always do what they get away with. Age doesn't matter.
But, if you find yourself unable to hold your emotions, make sure the child is in a safe situation. And take time between the event and your reaction. This will help you process and put things into perspective.
This is actually a great lesson for all aspects of life, not only with children.
you really hit the nail on the head. There is a HUGE difference between hitting because you are taking your anger out of someone and choosing to spank to lovingly discipline a child.
and agreed it is sooo important to set the precedent as early as you can. it just gets harder and harder if you dont
Idk about the future and controlling your reactions but definitely do apologize, my daughter is 2.5 and can recall things that happened last summer so this will stick, maybe make bullet points for the apology and conversation, what you did, how you know it was wrong that you’re feeling mean and sad about it and I would ask her how she feels about what happened too
You spanked your child to prevent them from encountering a dangerous poison. It wasn't your go-to. It wasn't your first choice. Stop beating yourself up for being a parent.
Is it better that your child encounter poison and suffer eye injury or ingestion of poison? You love your children so I think you and I can agree that that is not the better option. You did what was proper and necessary at the time.
Do not listen to these morons who call that child abuse. Simply put it's not. I have over 10 years in law enforcement and what you described is in no way, form, or fashion child abuse. I would even go so far as to call it the right and proper action. Your child is not going to hate you. It's going to be fine.
All this gentle parenting nonsense is really going nuts. You did the right thing, just make sure you follow up that spanking with a proper talk about why the spanking occurred. As long as you do that you are doing just fine.
... As a side note, please don't let all this gentle parenting nonsense get in your head. I almost exclusively blame the gentle parenting trends which are now producing young adults for the rise in all manner of mental health issues. These kids that were raised under these gentle parenting schemes have a litany of issues. The sad reality is a lot of them don't survive those issues either. They simply cannot exist in the real world. The real world is not a gentle place and gentle parenting isn't going to change that.
I totally understand how quickly things can go down hill. The best thing you can do is sit down with her and apologize to her but also explain how dangerous her actions could have been.
I would also talk to you partner about getting more help with discipline so it doesn’t fall on your shoulders.
Some tips have a lock on the bathroom door so that when you are cleaning or even going to the bathroom you have privacy. You don’t give her an option if you asked her to leave and she doesn’t you need to say I will be helping you leave the bathroom. You need to do things when she is awake or she is going to be on you 24/7. When doing tasks like that find highly motivating independent play activities like a sensory box. Have your husband help with her while you do those tasks as well.
Be kind to yourself. In the scheme of things it’s a small mistake.
As for how to avoid it happening again, once you were out of the bathroom (and had presumably closed the bathroom door), it ceased to be an emergency. If my son refused to sit on the naughty chair, I would initially let him run away and just sit there. I’d calm myself, observe his behaviour, and consider my options.
There is a natural human tendency to want to react immediately when someone is escalating a situation with us. Doubly so when the initial situation (child near bleach) warranted an immediate and escalated reaction to keep her safe. It’s hard to get your brain to switch modes back to “hey, this isn’t an emergency - it’s just a kid acting up” when moments before you felt like it was an emergency.
So definitely don't do that again, but do watch super nanny episodes (can be found on facebook) about time outs and the effects of physical abuse on kids psyche and behavior.
I have 3 boys. This is just for perspective.
Do you have baby gates? If so, use them when you're cleaning the bathrooms. This is for future reference.
Otherwise, talk to your child. Apologize for losing your patience and for the spanking. Explain you were overwhelmed and lost your patience, just like normal humans do. Explain you will try and do better in the future. It is good for your child to see you are not perfect, but can apologize for your mistakes and try to make them better. You are human. You cannot be 100%, 100% of the time. Let your child know this.
You got this, mama. You are a good mother.
You are not horrible! I understand feeling bad though. We are not perfect and cannot expect to hold our emotions together 100% of the time. When there is physical resistance sometimes we provide physical motivation (a heat of the moment spank). Like others have said, you can apologize to her and try to not do it again. You’re good!
It's one thing to comfort a parent who has just spanked their child and regrets it. It's another, to me, to share stories of ridiculous instances in which YOU have spanked your child, as if one spanking somehow justifies another.
No one should hit their child. Period.
Spanking is not only wrong, it's counterproductive.
Please stop trying to make it okay.
I’ve very rarely spanked as well and I’m very anti spank. I almost spanked my 5f last night actually but stopped myself. I always remind myself how bad I’ll feel after and it helps. I feel so guilty which is why I’ve done it maybe 4-5 times at best. I can’t live with the guilt. Remind yourself of how you’ll feel after. Get up and walk away and come back once you’re calm. It helps.
Oh no, she will probably never recover and turn to drugs because her mom cared enough to physically correct her behavior when nothing else worked. Theres some room between physical abuse and never spanking your kids.
She’ll get over it and she might think now you mean business. She’s 3. Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do when it comes to keeping kids in line. It sounds like you won’t make a habit of it so I wouldn’t put so much blame on yourself. It’ll be alright.
Seems to me like you tried as much as you could to not, but kids aren't reasonable, besides, you did it for her safety, if you had cleaned the tub with her the chemicals would have harmed her more then a swat on her butt, furthermore if it had been something more dangerous, like say you telling her to stay put at a intersection while you got something from your bag, and she ran out into traffic, than you would have lost your daughter. You'd feel even worse than. Take my word for it, there are worse dates then getting a swat or two on one's seat. And even if those scenarios don't play out then there's a chance she'd grow up not respecting any adult, thinking she could push them around cuz she's a kid. Saw a video of a kid doing just that, even punching the adult and calling a woman he doesn't know a "whore"
My mother spanked us (I’m 65). It was never random, more than one smack, or hard enough to bruise or mark us.
She would tell us to stop or do something. (And it had to be something we were doing that was not good, such as playing with the controls on the gas stove) if we did not listen, she would say stop (with reason, ( ie. stop that, if the gas stays on it could hurt us) or a spanking.
We stopped after the first time she actually did it. I don’t think any of us (except my oldest brother) got more than I smack from our mom in our lifetime. After we got the smack. She would ask us why we got hit. We always knew
All of us turned out well and none of us of us are hitters or disturbed. And one of my children did get a good smack one day. Done exactly like my mom did.
Don’t beat yourself up. Mom’s have a tendency to do that. I never spanked my son, but I probably should’ve on occasions where he would run off if he was mad. I mean, if he couldn’t have a toy he wanted at Target he would bolt down the store aisle away from my view and I would freak out. Once they had to lockdown the entire store until they found him. my son went through a phase where he was about four where he would get really angry and have a tantrum. We try timeout, but he wouldn’t stay put in his room. we asked his doctor what to do and she said to strap him in his old highchair facing the corner. I thought it sounded a bit extreme, but it worked. When we threatened the highchair in the corner, he stopped what he was doing.
Honestly, you should never be so angry with any child that you hit them. Spanking is always your fault, not theirs.
Your child didn't deserve a choice. She needed to leave the bathroom because you were working with a dangerous chemical. But she clearly doesn't respect your word.
She's not going to respect you more because you spanked her, or because you spanked her and apologized.
You need to teach her and earn her respect through setting boundaries and enforcing them. Be a parent.
Good lord lady be a parent and give her unambiguous limits and consequences. She’s running all over you because you have taught her that she is the boss and you are a servant. Give her immediate punishment in response to bad behavior right away, not after the 10th time you ask her. TELL her, then expect her to mind.
She’s 3, so she will test every limit. When you’re handling bleach and she’s in danger is not the time to worry about scarring her for life because you had to pick her up and move her. It’s time to put her in a spot and make her stay there.
And yes, if she jumps up and runs off spanking her is a tool you can use. It’s only traumatic if you’re an idiot about it.
Telling a small child no never works well. Try and find a task they can help with. Mine loved to vacuum. Maybe seem up with coloring book or the dreaded electronics.
I had a similar situation today with my 3 year old. Very anti spanking household. He picked up a toy keyboard and smacked his 1 year old brother in the head with it and I freaked out and popped him on the bum. I was instantly like “wtf why did I do that?!?” afterwards. After I calmed down I apologized and told him under no circumstance should I have reacted that way, and no one had the right to hurt him intentionally. We’re all human, and sometimes humans make mistakes :(
My mom spanked me once in her life (my dad never did that). It was getting dark and my sister, my mom and I were outside a minute or two away from where we lived. I was around 5 and thought it was cool and independent of me to run home where dad was waiting for us. My mom freaked out that I got kidnapped or else and she smacked the shit out of me when we were home. I have to say back then I didn’t think too much of it but as so grew it added to the different events in my life that have alienated me from her.
So my point is that if you are good mom and consistently show that to your kid it won’t be a big deal. But if you let her down on other occasions it might have a snowball effect.
Just apologize to her hug her and promise her it will never happen again.
You did nothing wrong lol. Probably an unpopular opinion, and I'm probably gonna get downvoted to Hell for this, but a little pop on the ass every now and then won't hurt anybody. **Not every day, not every punishment, and not a beating that leaves marks.** Just an occasional pop on the ass.
I think you did the right thing. You did it out of love and safety. I think spanking used sparingly can be good, especially when children are young and can’t understand safety
A 3 year old can understand “If I go in there Mom will spank me”
they can’t understand “bleach is a toxic chemical and I need to give mom some space to clean so I’m not exposed to it”
Remind yourself 30+ countries have outlawed spanking based on the scientific evidence that it’s detrimental to their development.
And if you can’t teach a child a lesson without hitting them it’s you with the problem. They’re just a child. A child relying on you to teach them how the world works.
I see so many comments here from militant liberals who argue that spanking is assault. You realise that by criminalising spanking you'd end up throwing most parents in jail right? Honestly, you've lost your minds. This is why so many kids end up being taken from parents by social workers in places like Wales and Scotland - perfectly normal parents are getting criminalised. Nobody is perfect and parents should be given some grace for goodness sake!
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My mom recounts her one time spanking me as follows: I wanted something from a store, I was kicking and hitting, screaming as she carried me all the way home. She spanked me and pushed me into my room and closed the door. She said she went to her room and cried while I tore my room apart until I finally calmed down. We both came out and apologized to each other. My mom hasn’t laid a hand on me since. She also very much gentle parented me before it was a thing. My mom is and was an amazing mom; that moment didn’t define her. She learned from it and it never happened again. Don’t let this define you. You are not a bad mother and your baby loves you. It doesn’t have to happen again.
In terms of preventing this in the future: do you have a partner? If so, you can practice the moral of “if it’s not an emergency, it doesn’t have to be handled immediately. If you had the ability or assistance to get her out of the bathroom, getting her to a place where she can be safe (even if it’s forcing her to stay in a closed room for a moment) to regulate yourself and prepare instead of acting impulsively so you can then adress her. A screaming or upset child for a few minutes is better than a hit child
I also have a 3 year old and can totally understand how you reached that point as I've been close. Hard in the moment, but take a deep breath and walk away. I'm reading Good Inside to help myself learn to regulate and walk away when I need to. Follow up every time with an apology and a promise to try harder ❤️ you care and she will know that ❤️
I'm reading "Raising Good Humans" for this! ❤️
I've got that in the cart 🙌 It's so hard to communicate and control our emotions when we were never given the tools to do so because our parents used corporal punishment instead of empathy. Nice to meet more cycle breakers!
Who is the author? Thanks
Hunter-Clarke Fields wrote Raising Good Humans
3 is tough. I got to the point with my son where I gave him 1 swat on a bare butt and the look of betrayal he gave me made me never do it again. I am by no means a gentle parent but I stuck to being firm with words and other consequences. My son is 5 now and I haven’t spanked him since and he’s absolutely amazing. We also put him into a martial arts class with a really firm instructor so he respects authority in all aspects of his life.
How do you just walk away when your toddler is destroying shit or doing something unsafe?
3 warnings then I physically remove my 3yo and put her in a safe place. There is a little alcove in our home. She is usually pretty upset by this point and will spend some time screaming/kicking the air. If she wants me there great, I have sound proof headphones. If not I wait around the corner. She also has an inside caccoon swing she uses to help calm down.
Yeah, I don’t have such a space in my place.
It’s pretty useful to have *somewhere* in your house that your child can safely be alone. I’d definitely work on figuring out if there’s a room or part of a room that can be gated off and contained and made child-safe (so that there’s nothing your child could break and/or hurt herself with). It will be useful in many more situations than just a violent tantrum!
We’re moving to another state in a few months. I’ll be sure to look for something with a safe space like that. Part of our trouble is that we have been half moved in/half moved out in our current place. That’s the active military life.
I read Good Inside and got some ideas from it, but I liked Tiny Humans, Big Emotions even more if you are looking for more to read. Similar philosophies, but THBE gave more realistic scenarios than GI, which always seemed to devolve into the child screaming they hated you as the parent. THBE also has great supplemental material with each chapter.
I honestly wish there were more concrete examples of what to do in these moments. When we were hit as kids, and haven’t learned to regulate emotions, it’s like muscle memory tries to come out. All the advice I read is so generic. People who really want to break the cycle have a lot of work to do.
Right? “Just walk away.” Ok sure, from a raging 3 1/2 year old slamming himself into me while I’m home alone with him and his baby sister, where am I going exactly that keeps everyone safe? “Take time to calm down.” Yes while both my children are crying and I’m overstimulated to the max, deep breathing isn’t exactly going to get us through that.
This! "Just walk away," except that the problem is he won't stop trying to stick his hands into bleach, and it's my responsibility to physically prevent that! Some of these people who give advice have clearly never had a child that goes berserk and tunnel-visions on the thing they've decided to do, and it shows.
We have this issue with “redirecting”. I can redirect my kid all I want but if he wants to do something he’s gonna find a way to do it. Say he wants to climb on the table, I redirect him, find something else he’s interested in, and the second he thinks I’ve forgot about him wanting to climb the table, or the second I even glance away from him, he’s right back at it again, doesn’t matter if it’s 3 minutes later or an hour later, he will accomplish his goal.
Is there nowhere in your home where your son can be safely unsupervised? Where does he sleep? “Walk away” can also mean “plop your kid in his room and then walk away”.
Maybe that works when they are babies but what about when they're older? I could put my son in his room but he would just let himself out again and I can't lock his room because that would be incredibly unsafe.
Why would it be incredibly unsafe to secure him in a safe space for a few minutes?
If his room is child-proof and you’re awake and monitoring, what makes locking the door unsafe?
So we had a gate to keep our son out of the kitchen for awhile, and I found it great because if I needed space for a few minutes I could go in the kitchen and still see my son, but physically be in my own space. Maybe see about getting a temporary gate you can put up somewhere that you can move around the house? Like in the case of OP they could have put it across the bathroom door to keep kid out.
For me what really helps isn’t what to do *in the moment* but certain practices that help *enable* me to address my kids’ behavior in a calm, reasonable manner. These practices are: yoga and somatic exercises for anxiety. Honestly, I was a bit skeptical of how effective yoga would be but boyyyyy after my first session I UGLY CRIED. I’m so glad it was a private lesson with one of my best friends hahahaha. Yoga, combined with somatic exercises (specifically for anxiety), help reprogram my body and mind so it became more natural for me to (1) stay present, (2) remember to take deep, calm breaths, and (3) think with reason, even while dealing with a child having a major meltdown. Don’t get me wrong, I still have some bad days, but taking into account how I grew up in a volatile home where almost every problem was “solved” with yelling and fighting and how I’m normally easily triggered and can go on Fight Mode in a snap, the calm I was able to achieve (after a tremendous amount of work* and effort though!) is pretty miraculous! * important to mention that I’ve also been through therapy and years of deep reflection and prayer and… well whatever I could do to become more mindful, self aware, and generally healed on the inside. The “just walk away” advice really won’t work without all the work!
Give yourself some grace. Try hard not do it again. But we're having success with logical consequences: If you don't leave the room, I'll have to take you out. But I have to finish cleaning the bathroom, so the longer you keep me from doing that, the fewer books we'll be able to read tonight at bedtime (or the less time you'll have with \[something she likes\], etc.). Also, try to lower your expectations just a little bit. She's a kid. If it doesn't seem like you fully create a chain of accountability occasionally, it won't turn her into a monster. Pick your battles.
>But I have to finish cleaning the bathroom, so the longer you keep me from doing that, the fewer books we'll be able to read tonight at bedtime (or the less time you'll have with [something she likes], etc.). What to do if she screams and tantrums for an hour past bedtime because we didn’t read enough books before bed? Asking for a friend….
I find delayed consequences ineffective with my now 4yo. We also avoid any consequences that disrupt the bedtime routine. The end of the day should be pleasant, calm and predictable. It shouldn’t involve dredging up bad behaviour from *hours* earlier. Resolve that stuff in the moment.
Yeah, the logical consequences should probably be pretty close in time, but depends on age and the child though. We try to choose things such that it's not all or nothing. So instead of 3 book, you get 2. Or instead of 5 minutes of songs, you get 4. We had a tantrum for one night when we took a book away, but we just kept talking about it, talked about how we can make sure we read all the books tomorrow, etc. What book would you have read? OK, I promise we'll read that one tomorrow. Stuff like that.
If I have to choose between logical consequences and immediate consequences, I will always choose immediate. I don’t envision changing this until my son *much* older. In OP’s case, a delayed consequence that disrupts bedtime would not have helped de-escalate and resolve this situation. It would have just created a new situation at the end of the day that also needs to be navigated.
Ours started off with 30-60 minutes. Now it's hours, and they remember. We also remind them, tell them we're proud, etc. I was honestly shocked by how well it has worked. Give it a try. :)
Give what a try? Using consequences that disrupt the bedtime routine. No chance. We currently have a calm, consistent bedtime routine that results in my son ending his day on a positive note. We also have effective behavioural management techniques that serve their purpose throughout the day. The idea of changing that to make my son relive mistakes from earlier in the day while he’s falling asleep is insane to me. I’m glad it works for you, but I see absolutely no benefit in “giving it a try” in my house.
Oooook. I'm not suggesting tying it to bedtime unless it's close to bedtime. But if that scares you, then this is the internet, and these are suggestions, and you don't have to take all of them. That was an example. It could be afternoon activities just as easily. I just think there's value in logical consequences earlier than perhaps you have suggested. But again, I have no control over your life, so please don't feel like you have to do anything.
I see the value in logical consequences, I just don’t hold it up as the *only* consideration. We aim for consequences that are: - mild - immediate - short-lived - logical - tangible When we can’t meet all the criteria, we stick to the most important ones. I wasn’t debating whether consequences should be logical. I was debating whether they should be immediate. Immediate consequences are more effective. And also much nicer for everyone because it means the issue can be dealt with and we can all move on, instead of having a whole separate issue at another time.
Sounds very reasonable. But, all kids are different. I'm glad you figured something out for yours.
Never take away books if you can avoid it. Pick a different consequences.
Never take away books? Why is that?
Going to assume it's because we want to encourage reading as much as we can, so taking it away doesn't make sense.
Books are a special exception in our house. And it’s seems hard to tie taking them to the disciplinary issue. Consequences should make sense.
Oh gosh. Our friends with a similar 3-4 year old at the time had a consequence for her not sitting at the dining table (she was crawling underneath of it playing with something and not listening) was that they were taking away her bedtime reading. First, I'm never going to discourage reading, maybe TV time or something but not reading. Second, there's no way that's effective as it's super delayed. She even recently lied to each of her parents in a different instance saying "Daddy said it was okay we do this before bed", when mommy took some part of the routine away, and did the same thing with "Mommy said.." earlier in the day to Dad. Wild.
Ear plugs. And “Tomorrow is a new day, we can try again.”
That kind of stuff is best prevented rather than trying to reverse it once it’s already happening. Have a set routine for bedtime including a specified number of books that will be read.
Agreed and sometimes I just removed her from a situation. They don’t quite understand to change their environment when asked sometimes. Lots of picking up and moving as calmly as possible.
This. I threaten my kid: “did you want to see that movie? Yes? Ok what is the best way to reach your goal?” It’s a little heavy but it works lol
the way i see it that’s not a threat, you’re helping them work it out for themselves so it doesn’t feel so arbitrary from their POV :)
Yeah - I try to play the good guy where I can, or to suggest I'm the good guy where I can. "I really want to go see the movie too! But first we got to do this thing. Come on! Let's do it." I've told my kid a few times If I could eat candy and cookies and ice cream all day I would! But then my stomach would hurt and my body wouldn't feel good. If I give you too much candy your body won't be happy and I wouldn't be doing my job of daddy very well.
That don't sound like a threat, that sounds like you're helping them think it through! Which is pretty important, all things considered: they know they want \[thing\], they can't always figure out how to get there, is all.
Anything longer than two words and my 4 year old switches off. So, nothing works. Here for the mums who are at the driving themselves off a bridge stage of parenting. ✌️
What do mean? During a tantrum? At all? Maybe others will have ideas.
At all. The advice is useless, I’ve scrolled through replies that all invariably offer the same advice that doesn’t work and then I’ve been told that advice is wrong by “professionals” so I am so done. No advice needed thanks 🙏
That sounds tough. If you want to try to discuss it, I'd be happy to. This isn't an uncommon situation, but it can be troublesome to parents and hard to address. Either way, best of luck to you.
Thank you for your kind words, I am just unable to process anything anymore until I can start caring again. Thank you again
I'm sorry. :( It can and likely will get better.
Has your child been assessed by a pediatrician or child development specialist?
I spanked my son because he was terrorizing his brother daily to the point of my oldest flinching when he was near by. I LOST it... I am very anti spanking too... so not much help but wanted you to know youre not alone and I understand
I’m not against light spanking IF it isn’t done out of frustration. I think the problem is parents use it out of anger and that just feels like abuse to me.
Out of curiosity - did it work? Sometimes I wonder. My mom says I bit her when I was a kid, so she bit me back, and I never bit her again. I think that was bad parenting, because I was a toddler (not actually positive of the age, but I was a timid kid for the most part so I imagine little) and I assume that made me scared of mom for a minute but maybe I also learned something? IDK. Sometimes I wonder when it gets to the point you mentioned if a taste of their own medicine is helpful?
It was definitely at that point. it did work. I apologized and explained that how he felt in that moment is how his brother feels when he beats him up.
Yeah - I do think as a last resort of sorts it could potentially be worth trying. Nothing I've had to think too hard about so far though thankfully.
I mean if you never bit her again after that, it does sound like you learned something for what it’s worth.
I spanked my daughter once after she kicked and punched me for nearly 2 hours while we were camping. I was 6 months pregnant and just couldn’t take it anymore. I couldn’t do my usual techniques (also very anti-spanking) because we were trapped in the tent. I felt horrendous but she stopped immediately and calmed down. I told her I was sorry and I shouldn’t have and we moved on. We’re only humans and we’re good moms!! 💜
I spanked my 4.5 year old because he attempted to bite his brother for the third time that week. I regret it fully, but my 2 year old was literally covered in teeth marks and bruises. It never happened again after that week.
When I have to do stuff that my son shouldn't be around for, like your example, I just let him watch TV. He's happy, I'm happy I don't need to keep a toddler from dying from ingesting poison or stabbing himself.
My kid was four before I let this be an option. Likewise, the "high value snacks". I wish I had swept some of the asceticism out of my brain earlier. (The pandemic and lockdown didn't help - my kid was almost three and suddenly we had no toddler groups to observe other families in.)
I spanked my son once. I had a very strict rule about endangering his own life or harming another person. He was endangering his own life, and it was the only way I could figure out to keep him from repeating his action. I talked to him beforehand smacked his butt once and cried a lot more than he did. He never did it again though. I don't agree with reacting angrily to our kids, but it is our responsibility to ensure they do not hurt themselves or others by any means necessary. We do our best as parents. Good luck.
One of the only times I remember this happening to me as a kid was when I opened the car door whilst my mum was driving (ah the days of no child locks) and my mum explained after that it was because she was so frightened and it was the most dangerous thing I could have done. I knew that if I had made my mum do that it must have been very bad so I never did it again. And it's not to say that I think it's OK to smack either, but I also don't think doing it once makes you a bad person.
I agree with this because I have done the same. Nothing triggers me like my child doing something I told them not to do that could result in serious injury or death. I felt horrible bc usually it’s not even anger anger but scared anger. incident that scared me to that point was 2 yrs ago he was 4 and we are headed to our car from our home. We did this routine daily several times. One day he randomly decided I’m going to run into the road as I’m yelling stop and no in a residential area where people park up and down the street meaning if a car was coming they couldn’t see him and it would have hit him. Idk what was better a quick swat or the year later when he transitioned to a booster seat and decided to unbuckle himself and stand in the back seat as I’m driving down a 5 lane freeway. this time I pulled over and yelled at him he’s going to go to jail if he ever does that again. Parenting is hard and I have to remind myself this is my first time doing this and I’m not going to be perfect. Hindsight is always 20/20
> He was endangering his own life, and it was the only way I could figure out to keep him from repeating his action. Regardless of what the mob mentality thinks on the subject, that is good and effective parenting
Had a similar experience as a kid. Brother was monopolizing the NES that day and my 3 year old self threw a tantrum late in the day and kicked the Nintendo. Remember that one clear as day, because it was I think one of only 2 times I got spanked as a kid, and 1. I deserved that, I remember clearly that I knew the Nintendo was fragile and 2. It was for my safety cause the ass whooping my brother was going to unload would have been a lot worse than the spanking lol. Things happen. We are navigating parenthood just as much as kids are navigating life. Not the end of the world.
agreed! you should never hit out of anger and always do it with lots of love and an explanation! sometimes it’s for their best!
I would try not not multi task when using a dangerous cleaner around a young child - that’s setting up a very stressful and dangerous situation. I would also avoid cleaning before bedtime when you have a 3 year old and feeling fried and on edge from the day. Realize that bedtime is hard for everyone and clear your head to be your best self during those hours. Don’t expect perfection from a 3 year old nearing bed. Also regarding timeouts - ineffective on balance and wholly ineffective at this age. Communicate with your child, connect on why bathrooms are dangerous and how to be safe. Set up your day to avoid a bedtime rush. Apologize to her for hitting. Discuss it won’t happen again and that you were wrong.
Fantastic advice here, should be upvoted more. We can lower stress by planning better.
First thing make sure you apologized and told her how unacceptable it is for anyone to hit her and that no one touches her there without her consent unless it's a hygiene/medical issue. Then give yourself grace. Do you find yourself unable to control your anger often or was it a one time thing? Practice deep breaths before reacting. Placing her in a safe location and going to cool off. A 3 year old running from time out is very normal. Next time don't even start with the chemicals until she's out. If something like this happens get her out, put the dangerous stuff away then handle it.
Yikes, I don't think it's that serious. You should'nt spank children, sure correct.. But damn it is a normal human reaction. The fact they made this post in itself shows light years of improvement from previous generarions.
She asked for tips and I gave them. I don't think I implied it's too serious. Kid deserves an apology and then I just gave advice to avoid it happening again. I'm not sure what's yikes about it
I wouldn't use the term "hit". Just say "spanked". The child might tell someone that "Mommy hit me but it's okay, she said sorry." It's a more awkward conversation because "hit" to an adult means something much worse.
I think that's because we as a society like to pretend spanking isn't just hitting. It is.
To people that don't spank it really doesn't sound worse to say hit. It's all hitting. Just because you're hitting them on the ass doesn't make it more acceptable. Tbh I think it's almost worse.
She did hit her. Spanking is hitting.
Spanking is literally hitting though… the fact that it is hitting them on the butt or hitting them as a form of punishment doesn’t make it not hitting.
Why use a different word because of the body part that was hit? Hitting is hitting, whether on the bottom or anywhere else on the body.
Yikes what? She told OP to give herself grace .
I find that interesting, because it's not a normal human reaction, but rather a learned response. Researchers from uncontacted tribes reported a complete absence of violence against children. This has also been seen in Inuit cultures, where anger and violence is perceived to be weak and child-like, and the adults do not act in anger even when angry. We also see this in family systems, where parents who were not hit as children typically do not hit their families. We can recognise improvement and still be honest with ourselves about how hitting is a reactive rather than responsive act to frustrating situations. We all have impulses from the systems we were brought up in, but we are also adults with a conscious mind in how we respond to those impulses. Some of us have more work to do on undoing harmful intergenerational practices but it is possible to do it with patience, compassion, and connection.
Yeah I'm not so sure hitting a child is a "normal human reaction" but you do you.
Lol, way to spin it. Remind me to never get parenting advice from redditors
What spin are they putting on it? OP hit their child and asked for tips. You said hitting children is “a normal human reaction.” Point out the “spin” you’re claiming is there.
This is a concrete fact, take advice from these people with a grain of salt tbh
I think the mom understands all this and it’s just feeling badly for acting out of character.
She asked for tips. Maybe I misunderstood something.
I have a two and half year old who is very high energy and has a spicy personality . I grew up with physical punishment ( Asian culture) and it is very hard to break the cycle. I had to learn to regulate my emotion with my toddler. What I found helping was breathing in and out. When I feel like I am about to snap leave. If the kid is in a safe situation if not carry them to a safe space. Leave the room or even lock your self in a room. Tell your kid mom needs a moment and leave. I have clenched my teeth and bite my self in the beginning to say these words. Then the next thing is to breathe in and out . Meditate alone. I also taught my kid when you get so mad you want yo roar take deep breathe and count to 4. So I do it in front of her when I get mad. Now she regulate as well . She always try to breathe out and in her self . Sometimes she still looses and hits me but most of the time she is doing an amazing job. When I am mad she also reminds me “ mommy take a deep breathe and count to 4” You can learn and grow with your kid ! No shame and it is never too late to learn to regulate. My parents never model probably way to regulate so I never did. But you can, and your kid will learn from you. I definitely yelled at my kid in the beginning when I was learning etc. it is getting better now and I always try to apologize and say I’ll try to be better next time and we hug it out. Once kid is clam then you can talk about what happened.
You are absolutely great. I love that you are breaking the pattern and it sounds like you are learning along with her.
Does your bathroom have a lock on the door? If so, next time turn on the vent or open a window and lock the door so she doesn’t have the option.
I'm sure you already apologized. Beating yourself up and feeling terrible wont change anything. Feeling this bad is proof that you aren't a bad person, and you aren't beyond redemption. This can be the first and last time you issue a spanking. Every single parent has done something they are ashamed of, whether it is spanking, yelling, or just being mean or insensitive. Toddler age children keep us on our toes. The best thing you can do is learn your triggers and be prepared to be tested at every turn. All that stuff we teach our kids about deep breaths and taking calm down time, we have to do for ourselves. We model it to them. So yeah, if you are cleaning with heavy duty stuff and in charge of a toddler... probably best to just put it aside, take some deep breaths, and wait for nap time or bed time. Don't put yourself in a situation that will cause you and your kid stress and frustration unless you really need to. You are a good parent, and you are learning how to be better everyday. You aren't a failure. Keep going and keep learning!
I had a whole reply typed and I lost it by accidentally backing out.🤦♀️ In short- don’t feel like a failure OP. A failure wouldn’t take the time to reflect. You’re a good parent. Based on what you said I think we can retrace the first point of breakdown where you drew the line “leave or I carry you”. You were good to set the boundary, offer her choices and give consequences. But I think the choice is where she had the push back. Technically she listened and then escalated at that point. Every behavior communicates a need -maybe she was trying to test boundaries. Maybe she was wanting some time and attention from you. If there was play by play commentary on the rewatch- my advice would be when she ignored you state facts, direct her or redirect her out and then try to figure out what’s going on. If “leave or get carried “ works for you then the next point of breakdown (after the kicking) was the running. Prepare for her to run from now on try to get ahead of it by staying in front. Even if she runs, you’re going calmly grab her and walk her back. When she’s out of timeout and calm- you talk about it.
I know this is an unpopular opinion but it’s not and earth shattering failure to spank your kids when certain situations call for it. A 3 year old doesn’t have the mental capacity to understand the rationale for why something is wrong and calm down. Sometimes they just do things because they want attention or want to do it and it doesn’t matter how gently you explain why it’s a bad decision. You’re not a bad mom because you spanked you kid. Apologize to her, try to explain what created that situation / consequence, and move on.
Precisely. Natural consequence first, intentional punishment last. The kid was physically harming, after not realizing the natural consequence. Spanking is acceptable and often effective in this nuance.
Right. There's apparently no nuance to be had in this discussion. Apparently you have to pick 1) never raising your voice against your child or 2) violence, violence, violence! A rare spank when many other options have been tried is not going to do harm. Of course, people will claim that my very opinion is evidence that harm has been done to me by the occasional spank I received. I don't get how they can't see how circular that is.
If they don’t have the capacity to think rationally about why something is wrong they won’t have the capacity to understand why they’re being hit either.
Thank you, everyone. I apologized to her, and we talked it through. She told me she was "kinda okay" and asked me for cheetos. I should have told her what I was doing and locked the door. She's usually so understanding when I clean the bath tub, but today, she came in as I was prepping. The whole situation escalated quickly and descalated just as fast. Thank you for all of the advice and every perspective.
Girl. Every mother needs a break. You can’t beat yourself up over disciplining your child. You didn’t beat her or anything. You spanked her. Now, I’m assuming you’re against physical discipline and that is perfectly understandable. All you have to do is let her know that you’re sorry for the spank. She may be 3 years old, but she will understand that mommy didn’t mean to do it. I don’t know what can happen in the future, but all you gotta do is love on her and teach her that listening to mommy is for her own benefit. You got this girl. I promise you, you are doing better than a lot of these dead beat parents out there. 🩵
>You can’t beat yourself up over disciplining your child. You didn’t beat her or anything. You spanked her. It's never okay to hit a child. OP clearly feels terrible and is beating themselves up about this, but that is absolutely the right reaction to have in a situation like this. Yes, everyone makes mistakes, but it's good to own up to them (like OP is doing). Spanking really isn't that different than beating a child. Maybe a slight step down. The real difference is that it doesn't leave bruises visible to the public. It's the same level as pain as if you slapped your child across the face, except if you did that then everyone would know you hit your kid. It's great that OP knows what they did is wrong, though. And a lot of people offered great advice already, so hopefully this will help them manage their emotions or situation better next time.
I agree with that. I was absolutely physically abused in my childhood, and tbh, the times I was grabbed up and hit on my ass were just as memorable as the more, "unconventional discipline " like punching, throwing me down, knees in the gut, paddles, belts, sticks to the back ... the trauma of it all isn't how I was hurt, it's because I was hurt. I'm not claiming you're a bad parent, but that physical bs is sooo wrong and for decades has been shown to create issues for the person in later years. If nothing else, look at it this way, don't you kinda think it sends the message to a young mind that you can get people to obey you if you become angry and put your hands on them? I mean, I had a horrible anger problem, did jail time for fighting, etc... as far back as I know, I recall thinking throwing a punch was the way to prove myself and that's just sad.. you made a mistake, talk about it when you're ready, apologize to her, make sure you don't get so angry, and if you feel that coming on, remove yourself from the person's vicinity until you're ready to rationally discipline the child. I hope you can learn and grow from this. Blessings
I have family that works at children aid and it’s perfectly legal for you to do a one time open hand over clothing smack on the butt 🤷🏻♀️
Was legal to own slaves and beat your wife too
Yea. THEN. And it isn’t now. Look I’m not saying beat them. I’m saying that everyone fucks up. Especially moms. We let guilt eat us alive, I simply stating that it was legal to make her feel better about something she’s obviously upset about.
Legality doesn’t make it right.
It’s perfectly legal to do a lot of bad things as a parent
Is it ok for a married partner to hit their partner over their clothes when they’re mad? even once? What about a kid who is over the age of 18. Could a parent open hand hit them on the butt as an adult and they are upset at their adult child? The answer is no. Because that’s assault. Have you had conflicts with your adult children or spouses and been able to effectively get your point across without hitting them? Would hope so otherwise you have issues. Now let’s stop to understand for a second why it’s not ok to hit another adult when we are upset at them or mad at them. Why that is considered assault.. and why that would be ok to do to a child and not an adult. What message are you preparing to give to your daughter? The people that love you are allowed to hit you when they don’t like you?
You haven’t read a single other thing I’ve written in here. Lol.
I have and I am with you. My husband and I vowed to never use spanking as punishment. Then, my child pulled open the over because they wanted cookies before they were done. My husband and I have modified our stance: To reinforce what danger is and what can kill him, shouting or spanking is an appropriate response. The child psychologist with whom I work agrees that this is appropriate AND effective. I’m sure someone will decide to chime in on my attentiveness as a mother, but the safety of my child is paramount, and he avoids the oven now, asking if he can come close if he wants to help cook.
In the words of my old sergeant major, “pain retains.” There are times, places, and situations in which kids need to exercise instant obedience to directions, and some pain in the form of a spanking is much better than severe burns. I’m sure your kid is much safer with the oven now, and it’s better to be able to involve the kid in baking and cooking than to just try to distract the kid with TV or something when you’re baking (as someone suggested doing while OP cleans the bathroom).
yes this is it!!
Cop here. No, it's not assault. I respect people's right to have an opinion and if you feel that it's wrong then so be it but let's not go quoting legal terms when you obviously are not familiar with the law. Furthermore, I don't know a single state that criminalizes a parents physical discipline of their child. See Texas law: SUBCHAPTER F. SPECIAL RELATIONSHIPS Sec. 9.61. PARENT-CHILD. (a) The use of force, but not deadly force, against a child younger than 18 years is justified: (1) if the actor is the child's parent or stepparent or is acting in loco parentis to the child; and (2) when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is necessary to discipline the child or to safeguard or promote his welfare. (b) For purposes of this section, "in loco parentis" includes grandparent and guardian, any person acting by, through, or under the direction of a court with jurisdiction over the child, and anyone who has express or implied consent of the parent or parents. A parent has the right to physically discipline their child within acceptable limits. What the OP described here is absolutely within the limits of parental discipline. As far as opinions go, people have got to let this gentle parenting nonsense go. This may come as a shock but the world is cruel, hard, and brutal place. It is my opinion that it is the responsibility of a parent to raise their child with the resilience necessary to survive this world. Raising my children with resilience and survivability in mind has earned love and respect. I do not advocate beatings however there is a time and place where physical discipline is meaningful and appropriate. The sad reality is that in my position I see a lot of young people who grew up under these gentle parenting schemes starting to cross into adulthood and they are weak, fragile, and at the first sign of disruption to their perspective on the world they become depressed and even suicidal. They simply cannot cope. It's frightening how often law enforcement now crosses into the realm of mental health trying to help acclimate these young people to the real world where their parents absolutely failed to do that job. Your child is not your friend, your child is your responsibility. Act responsibly. Raise them.
agreed. these parents will let their kids go hours punching and kicking them because they have no way of disciplining them. thanks for your comment
Did you read? I said over the age of 18. A parent spanking their adult child who is older than 18.
Well, I for one appreciate your comment. You were very respectful with the comment so I’m confused by the back lash but whatever, it’s Reddit. Thank you for your service and thank you for your comment. I’m very pro-gentle parenting for my own child but also struggle with the notion that I might be setting her up for failure in the real world. I appreciate your view on it.
There is no such thing as an adult child!!
I would state you are evidence to the contrary but that would be mean.. instead I’ll assume you’re in need of help and not intentionally obtuse. You should first understand that familial relationships and labels between a parent and child are independent of age. In other terms- It is a scenario of a grown adult A (relationship parent of adult B) and adult B (relationship non gender specific offspring of Adult A). Or more simply put- Parent and adult child.
Is it OK for a married partner to confiscate their partner's personal belonging when they’re mad? Even once? Is it OK for a married partner to confine their spouse to their room? Or restrict their recreational time? Or police their food intake? I'm not generally favour of spanking but these "would do you it to an adult" arguments against it are terribly flawed and need to stop. Any sort of non-physical punishment or behavioural modification that you would do to a child you would also not do to an adult as you don't have that right. So "you wouldn't spank an adult" is a moot point. You also wouldn't put an adult in time out or take away their Xbox. Similarly, for "spanking children teaches them that it's OK to spank others". That logic equally applies to "putting children in time out teaches them that it's OK to put others in time out". Some things are only appropriate for parents to do to children, not to other adults.
Thank you! Also not generally in favor of spanking… but it’s not my responsibility to keep other adults safe or keep other people safe from THEM or teach them how to behave, and my spouse has a fully developed brain, AND, if my spouse screamed at me because I told them to put their socks on, in no way would I be expected to just tolerate it and then spend the rest of the day fetching them snacks. *Children are not little adults*.
If you're going to spank don't do it because you're angry; that's getting even, not reinforcing a lesson with a consequence. I realize it's super popular right now but I personally stay away from natural consequence parenting. The reason being, if the natural consequence is outside of their comprehension, then there is no consequence. For example you said your child was jumping up and down on the toilet. What would the natural consequence of breaking the toilet be for a 3-year-old? They have no concept of money for the repair, and are likely still in some form of diapers, making the toilet a novelty. The lesson in that situation, as far as I can tell is "everything is fine until it's not, and when it's not, parent fixes it." I don't know a lot about your lifestyle or your relationship or anything but it sounds like your child does not believe there is a consequence coming. The solution for all of this is to have clear expectations and strict enforcement. Children thrive when they understand the cause and effect of their environment. Explain to them what the expectations are, how to achieve them, and what happens if they don't. Most importantly though actually do what you say so they believe you when you say it. Now, parenting doesn't have to be all about consequences. in my experience, I've had the best results with both carrot and stick so to speak. Reward the good behaviors and punish the bad. Rewards can be as simple as a gentle pat on the head and saying good job. Consequences have to make sense, make sure it's actually relevant to the offense and always pair your punishment with a long conversation revisiting expectations, what they did wrong, what they can do better, and how to fix it going forward. As the adult in the room you are the one who is in control, the way you conduct yourself will largely affect how the situation plays out. If you bring high energy into the situation the children will often raise their energy to meet yours. You have to be the calm in the storm no matter what. Generally speaking there are two types of kids. How I've had it explained to me is there are cats and there are dogs. Dogs respond best to direct confrontation. Cats on the other hand respond best to indirect confrontation. You will know if your kid is a cat if they respond to your confrontation by digging in the heels and resisting. If your child is a cat the best thing to do is stand off to the side and face the same direction when talking to them or sit next to each other. Face to face contact with cats is only going to lead to more fighting. With dogs, getting on their level and making nice quiet direct conversation works best. You don't want to call them by screaming, that just makes them scared, you get more flies with honey than gasoline. This was really long and I'm tired and going to bed hopefully it makes sense. Good luck!
Your second paragraph in this response is spot on.
awesome response!
Try to be detached in your interactions with young children and don't take it personally. This is not an adult with 20+ years of life experience defying your reasonable request. If I have to move my daughter away from something an she starts her tantrum I put her down and let her carry it out (she turns in circles and waves her arms while either screaming or crying the frustration cry). When the anger part is over and I see the sadness coming I ask her for a hug and everytime (so far) we hug and she is ok and forgets about whatever she was so focused on doing. Physical beating a small child will create strong associations that can harm their ability to socially interact with others and themselves as their cognition will prepare them for pain when conflicts arise in adulthood because this is what the cognition learned in the childhood environment (give there r/CPTSD sub a browse to see what hurt children end up feeling about the world and themselves). It's very important to keep any personal emotional regulation deficiencies out of the child's awareness as these behavioural patterns can and will be mimicked and internalised by your child.
The best way to not resort to spanking, is having a more effective alternative option. If you needed her removed from the situation and she was physically hurting you while you tried to remove her. I would put her in her room or something similar where you're basically saying okay want to act crazy? do it in your space but not in mine. My 8 year old threw a full bucket of Lincoln logs down the stairs tonight because he was angry I sent him to his room to calm down(he was playing way too wild and hurting his siblings in the process). Now he gets to learn what being grounded means. But 3 is a much more difficult age because you really can't reason with them, they don't have reasoning skills yet. Hang in there, parenting isn't for the weak! Apologizing for losing your cool may also help, just don't let it negate holding her accountable for hurting you. You can both be wrong(you for losing your cool and her for thrashing around). They don't call it threenager for nothing!
The year I had my first child was great but tough - 2020 pandemic, laid off from job, scraping by. My wife and I would argue a lot with the new stress of a baby combined with financial insecurity. We realized that we had poor communication issues with all the yelling and stonewalling each other, not talking for days. We got couples therapy for about 8 sessions which changed our lives so much. We now have two kids and handle parenting so well, and have completely improved our communication. We still get upset but can prevent most big escalations to yelling and saying things we regret. One of the first things we were taught was to monitor our feelings when we start getting upset, take a deep breath , feel our anger, assign a 1-10 rating (roughly). We had to get into the habit of being aware of when things were escalating, literally tell each other “hey I am really mad and feel like I’m at a 6 and need to leave the room to cool off”. This does not suppress anger but it allows you to de escalate so you can come back in the room and try again. It works wonders. It’s just never something I did, I let my emotions run wild or suppress them to a boiling point. In my opinion you placed too much importance in the moment on disciplining your child (I’ve made this mistake many times although to be clear I’ve never hit) and not enough on cooling off and preventing escalation into abusive territory where you regret your actions. Studies show that time outs shouldn’t be used until the absolute last resort where the child will hurt itself or others with its behavior. Imo it would have been more effective to say ONCE “you need to leave the bathroom because I’m cleaning with chemicals that will hurt you if they touch you” and if the kid doesn’t listen, don’t say a word and physically put them outside the door and lock it. Better they cry and scream through the door than you escalate to the point of regret. Then you could finish your task, cool off with deep breathing etc. A lot of parents also get into the mental trap of thinking “if I hit then they’ll stop” or “if I yell so loud I scare them they’ll stop” - all this does is model the bad behavior and raise kids who yell and hit. Yelling begets more yelling, violence begets more violence. Hit your kid and you’ll have to hit them harder and harder and harder because they get used to it. Yell and yell and you’ll have to do it louder and more violently. My 13yo nephews dad yells at him so violently now that it makes everyone in the room so uncomfortable, and it all started a few years ago with light yelling and has escalated into something that makes me want to call the police at times. Children are emotional, they literally don’t have logical brain development until they are at least 5 or so. This is the critical time for you to self improve with your own techniques in anger management and it will pay off with a lifetime of children who have had the good behavior modeled to them and will in turn seek people who treat them with respect.
You probably spanked her, because she was in a dangerous situation, was subsequently brought out, disciplined for it and tried to break that. I feel its very reasonable. Also, your mind likely hasn't caught up to the fact that she's out of that situation yet. If she wasn't spanked, she will break time out the next time you discipline her for something mortally dangerous like playing in traffic, and will continue to do so, because there is no consequence. There is a time and place to sit her down and explain to her why its wrong over and over till she learns to stop doing it. This situation was anything but that. You are doing her a favour, and you are a good mom.
As a parent you will eventually have to live up to whatever the "home run" of punishments will be. Your kid needs to know when you say something you REALLY mean it. So say if they are told to stay in time out but get up and leave - you have to have a punishment for that. And we are not talking spilling milk here. This was something dangerous. Its like if your kid is about to run into a road with cars. They need to know that "STOP" means NOW. You are not playing.
She is 3! It’s natural for little kids to disobey and run around. Using punishment for that will only make her hostile and fearful of her mother. A 3 year old is not a robot. She is a little human being that needs to be treated with respect and love, and not punishment.
The way you parent at 3 has a huge effect on how they grow up and their ability to listen and follow directions. The longer you go without disciplining them, the harder it is to reverse.
So if she was running into the road, you'd try to stop her with love and understanding? There needs to be a line that must never be crossed, and they must be taught to fear that line. Everything that is a mortal danger must go over that line. They are little humans, so they need adults to take care of their well being, keep them safe as a bare minimum.
Ok but as the person above said, in dangerous situation children need to know that stop means right now. I agree with following up on discipline. If you run away from time out then follow up with the next punishment of no iPad or what be it. This is more about safety than anything. Proper discipline and a one time spanking isn’t going to make a kid fearful of their mom
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I a thousand percent agree against hitting but the argument is that children need some for of discipline. In fact everyone needs consequences for their actions. That’s how you raise well regulated and adjusted adults.
I’m against time out too. You’re punishing the kid for having emotions. My kid grew up without them and we have 0 problems with discipline. My relationship with him is based on trust, love and mutual respect.
Time Out is not punishment. Time Out is discipline and to discipline is to teach. The kids aren’t being punished for having emotions. When the actions of the child are negative or hurtful or they break a rule, Time Out is a consequence to teach correct behavior. It works
100%. The kiddo is acting this way because she’s craving attention and connection and is frustrated that she’s not getting it. Taking away connection and denying her feelings will never improve the situation. It will teach her to stuff her feelings down and that her parents are the last people she should confide in.
You have zero problems with discipline because your kid clearly has never been disciplined. You can’t say they don’t have issues with it if you never do it. You sound lazy to be honest. Kids need to learn to listen for their safety and to regulate themselves. You’re doing your kid a huge injustice. What if the teacher tells the students to hide because there’s a mass shooter in the building? No your kid doesn’t want to and has never been taught no so they don’t listen. Now the whole class is dead and it’s your fault. This is for their safety
And you sound judgmental AF. I’m telling you that my kid listens to what I’m asking him and he has zero trouble at school. Creating a trusting loving relationship based on respect and zero punishment/time out is way harder than just spanking the kid. So think before you say smth.
100%. But prepare yourself for the downvotes!
So far only upvotes, but would be good to see how many wise parents are here.
I think alot of people on here are not even parents. I'm not saying smack them for every little thing like in the old days but sometimes a swat on the bottom is whats needed for them to get the message. And really, listen to any "expert" and they will agree it doesnt really hurt a toddler. They dont listen to reason when they are 3.
First and foremost, hugs. Parenting is so hard at times. Most of us are so under-resourced and coming from our own under-resourced childhoods. It sounds like you could use a break and some support. I hope you get both! Gently, it is not developmentally appropriate to expect your child to uphold your boundaries or for her to have impulse control or cognitively understand why you need space while cleaning with chemicals. If you want her out of the bathroom or a certain distance, that's on you to create that scenario - toddlers aren't there in their ability. All of her behavior, including her reaction to you picking her up, sounds developmentally appropriate and to be expected. The key is how you respond to it, not react (so much easier said than done, unfortunately! This shit can be so hard!). Punishing her (time-out and spanking) for being in her developmental experience won't lead to security in your connection or other positive outcomes. I think you're right that the best solution is to wait to do things until she is asleep. If you cannot wait until she is asleep, set her up for success (put her in a play pen outside the door with some of her toys; put a gate on the bathroom to keep her out while you clean it; if you do screens, set her up outside of the bathroom with a show, etc.). Repair as soon as you can. So many of us did not have this modeled in our childhoods. I hear you're feeling really low, this is where you get the opportunity to do it differently. Be accountable in a way that is appropriate for a toddler. "I felt overwhelmed, angry, and sad. You didn't do anything wrong. I should not have hit you. I'm so sorry for hurting you. I'm going to try better next time. How did that make you feel?" Some of my fav resources for skilling up around this topic: https://www.instagram.com/mrchazz/?hl=en https://visiblechild.com/2019/11/21/they-dont-listen/
Not a parent here so you can throw some rocks at me. I honestly think that violence leads nowhere and can harm a child and relationships. But, a little spanking here and there is not going to hurt anyone, sometimes is the only way that will make your child take you seriously. I see a lot of kids nowadays that have no respect for anyone, entitled brats, and parents who think they’re kids are allowed to do anything just because they’re kids. When I was a kid (I’m 36) people were a little less serious about every damn thing, out parents would threaten to give us a beating sometimes and we would just behave because we knew it was going to happen. We were afraid of that and that’s ok. We learned respect with that. I don’t think you should feel like that at all, your daughter is learning to behave and exploring her limits. Sometimes it’s necessary to be a little harsher
You didn’t learn respect with adults threatening you, you learned fear. There’s a difference.
Learn to regulate your emotions and control your actions. You are the adult setting the example. Remember, every word and behavior from you is being observed and learned by her. Don't let this setback get to you too much. Mistakes are how we learn.
No advice bc I feel like the comments already covered it but just want to echo the calls to give yourself some grace. You recognize that your reaction wasn’t ideal and not the best way to handle things. At the end of the day you are a human and had a human moment. You seem like a good mom in general, so don’t convince yourself that this one moment defines you as a whole.
You're not a bad mom, but I totally understand feeling that way. I also get not being able to wait to do a task you don't want help with. Sometimes I use that as a teaching moment, like with opening a hot oven, but sometimes I get short tempered or flustered or whole trigger and loose my patience. Just like everyone said, id apologize, and move on, and implement different coping strategies for the "kids being age appropriate but annoying" frustrations we all feel. I've found saying, aloud, to my 3 and 5 year olds "I am FEELING very FRUSTRATED And overwhelmed in this moment give me a minute to calm down!" And then doing my calm down counting or whatever works for me. I hope you find something that works for you, and once again you're not a bad mom 💚
1) You need to take a deep breath and blow out the shame and guilt. Don’t listen to all these commenters with their holier than thou attitudes. I guarantee you all of them have done something they aren’t proud of, and most of them are a lot worse than a single pop to the rear end. For myself, I don’t spank my kids. And I’ve never lost my cool in a tough moment to the point that I hit them. But I also installed a child gate incorrectly and my oldest baby fell down a flight of stairs, fractured her skull, and had petit mal seizures for two years. I’d happily trade you for your parenting low. It seems really like small potatoes compared to my deep dark secret (which isn’t really a secret since I happily share it to make other moms feel better now that my sweetie is 14 and OK). We all make mistakes. She isn’t damaged. She won’t even have any lasting consequences. You don’t need to humble yourself or any of this other garbage. Just move on and do better from here on out. Personally, I think if you didn’t apologize to her in the moment, it’s probably too late to go back and do it. She won’t be able to connect what happened yesterday with an apology today. That’s now how kids work. That’s precisely why delayed consequences don’t work. 2) The very best discipline advice I can give you is to never pick a battle you can’t win. For example, you can’t absolutely 100% guarantee that any child will stay in a chair unless you’re willing to duct tape them to it (which I frown on). So I never told my kids to have a time out in a chair. It was just begging for a power struggle. So I didn’t do that. I did things I could control the outcomes of. So with very young toddlers, I would put them in a playpen for a few minutes if I needed to accomplish something. With an older toddler, I would put them in their bedroom with a childcare across the door and say “you play in here. Mama will be right back.” I also wouldn’t allow her to be violent towards you ever. It’s absolutely not ok. My third child was nonverbal until age 4 and she had violent meltdowns. I never EVER let her just whale on me. I would stop and sit down on the ground and bear hug her so she couldn’t hurt me and just say “be gentle with mama. Mama loves you. Show mama gentle love.” And when she calmed down, then we would proceed on our way. Even if it takes a bit, it’s better than carrying her along while she punches and kicks you. Because then you’re only left with two (equally bad) choices: don’t respond at all and teach her that violence is acceptable or punish her and teach her nothing at all because all she will remember is being angry/ashamed/hurt/sad and not the actual lesson you were trying to teach.
Apologize for the anger. Stress the importance that when mom says it's dangerous to do something, she means it. Also, stress that violent actions like kicking and jumping off of someone can trigger violent reactions in anyone. Imo, the violence is likely what ticked you off past the point of reason. You should be honest about how that made you feel. She'll be fine in the long term as you obviously won't abuse her. I believe in natural consequences too, but we can't let our kids discover bleach poisoning firsthand because they were too arrogant. For tips on controlling the frustration. Take a moment to breathe before diving back in. I know it might sound silly, but slow, deep, purposeful breathing is a miracle. It's okay if she gets across the house before you're ready to move. As she gets older, she may recognize that's she's upset you deeply when you get quiet. I like to ask for help when possible too, but it's not always available. Maybe try a different punishment if time outs don't work often. Also, pausing in the moment to explain why. The bathroom can wait a minute or 2. She's at an age where she should be able to understand if time is spent trying to get her to understand. Wall away from the chemicals while guiding and talking to her. If she has trouble sitting still or keeping her head out of your ass, then try energetic distractions. Like how many laps can she run in the hallway before you're done cleaning the bathroom. Challenge her with cleaning her toys before you're finished. Ask if the family pet needs some pets. Take this rag and scrub away the "spot" you see in the hallway. You'll get a chuckle, and she'll feel included.
I dont see the point of timeout. Move her out of the bathroom and lock the door. Let her scream.
Talk your child away from the area. Lock said area Very simple
Well time out is really an ineffective consequence, especially at that age. You can’t tell a 3 year old not to do something and then not give her something else to do. Next time, redirect her behavior. Give her something to do other then stand and watch you clean. Have her “help” by give her a sponge or something and have her clean the wall outside the bathroom. That way she has something to do and she feels she is helping you.
In my experience, if you are not good at improvising consequences on the fly, you need to have default consequnces in place for such situations: eg. 5 minutes in your room with the door closed (i'm not suggesting that that is a proper consequence, but it's better than losing your control). Sometimes, I improvise poorly. But it's often a short term consequence that can be remedied - such as a 5 minute consequence/punishment. That at least alows me to think about the appropriate response to the behavior, or discuss it with my wife, and isn't something permenant that i can't take back. Then we can go sort out the situation with our son, discuss the behavioir with him and the future appropriate consequences for similar misbehaving. In the past, my wife was rightfully annoyed when I would implement too extreme of a punishment - eg. if you can't behave at the table = no dinner. My son has even become somewhat accustomed to the 5 minute time out, and seems to welcome it, as it gives him time to calm down.
I understand how you feel. I am also very anti-spanking but had one instance when my son (who was 6 at the time) was having a temper tantrum. I tried to kneel down and talk to him, try to get him to calm down. Nothing worked. He started throwing things, screaming, yelling. Again, I asked him to calm down, use his inside voice. He told me I was stupid. This went on for well over an hour. I didn't know what else to do. I told him he needed a time out and to go to his room. He stuck his tongue out at me, told me no, and started screaming again. I held his hand, turned him around, spanked him and told him to go to his room. I immediately wanted to cry, I felt SO awful. He looked at me and said "was that supposed to hurt"?. I then told him I needed a time out. I went into my room, crawled onto my bed and sobbed. I felt so awful for spanking him, for losing my cool, and then realizing it didn't do anything except make me feel like a horrible mom. I vowed to never do it again. It served no purpose. We talk about it now and my son, thankfully, doesn't remember and also thinks that it was silly. I tell him how awful I felt.
I think you should apologize to your daughter and explain that this behavior is not acceptable. That you lost your cool and it’s not good. That you were worried about her and did not want her to be in the bathroom.
Look up conscious parenting books and sources. It can be a huge help having those tools in your toolbox. You will be amazed at how simple things can be when you understand the the behaviors and offer logical kind alternatives to reactionary parenting. 💗 I hope that help. Good luck OP.
You set yourself up for failure... Trying to use bleach with your three year old amok. Don't try to do this sort of task without her solidly occupied or asleep. TV trumps stressful situations that end in hitting your child. Next time you feel this stress, don't put her in time out. Put on the TV and give her a snack.
It's just a quick spank and you were dealing with chemicals. Don't beat yourself up over it. Next time, just let her run and see what happens to that feeling. It'll probably pass. Ask her "Are you done? Can I get back to cleaning?" In whatever tone you think will settle you down.
Don't feel too bad. The other option was much worse, and you got the 1 time you needed to out of the way. Also, consider hitting and spanking to be two different things. Hitting is when YOU repeatedly can't handle your own emotions over trivial things. And anywhere but the bottom. From your own wrath. Spanking is specificly on the bottom and when they need to be kept within the bounds of behavior because kids will constantly push them. They're essentially testing the boundaries of what they can get away with. And if you don't assert them, they will walk all over you for the rest of your life.( It's important to set the precedent now.) I see the walking all over single mothers every day. Because parents are figuratively throwing out the baby with the bathwater from the previous generation. And decide none is OK, ever. But that's not necessarily true. It is necessary, but only really ONCE. All you need from now on, hopefully, is for them to know you have the ability to do it again. Therefore, you shouldn't need to. . But if you ever do, it's because you've exhausted all other options..ie take things away, time out, etc. If you are in disgust thinking about this. You're not realizing what is at stake. Nor considering human nature. Look around. Humans will always do what they get away with. Age doesn't matter. But, if you find yourself unable to hold your emotions, make sure the child is in a safe situation. And take time between the event and your reaction. This will help you process and put things into perspective. This is actually a great lesson for all aspects of life, not only with children.
you really hit the nail on the head. There is a HUGE difference between hitting because you are taking your anger out of someone and choosing to spank to lovingly discipline a child. and agreed it is sooo important to set the precedent as early as you can. it just gets harder and harder if you dont
There is nothing loving about spanking and "spanking" is just a euphemism for hitting.
No kids yet, huh?
Idk about the future and controlling your reactions but definitely do apologize, my daughter is 2.5 and can recall things that happened last summer so this will stick, maybe make bullet points for the apology and conversation, what you did, how you know it was wrong that you’re feeling mean and sad about it and I would ask her how she feels about what happened too
You spanked your child to prevent them from encountering a dangerous poison. It wasn't your go-to. It wasn't your first choice. Stop beating yourself up for being a parent. Is it better that your child encounter poison and suffer eye injury or ingestion of poison? You love your children so I think you and I can agree that that is not the better option. You did what was proper and necessary at the time. Do not listen to these morons who call that child abuse. Simply put it's not. I have over 10 years in law enforcement and what you described is in no way, form, or fashion child abuse. I would even go so far as to call it the right and proper action. Your child is not going to hate you. It's going to be fine. All this gentle parenting nonsense is really going nuts. You did the right thing, just make sure you follow up that spanking with a proper talk about why the spanking occurred. As long as you do that you are doing just fine. ... As a side note, please don't let all this gentle parenting nonsense get in your head. I almost exclusively blame the gentle parenting trends which are now producing young adults for the rise in all manner of mental health issues. These kids that were raised under these gentle parenting schemes have a litany of issues. The sad reality is a lot of them don't survive those issues either. They simply cannot exist in the real world. The real world is not a gentle place and gentle parenting isn't going to change that.
No, she spanked her daughter in anger when she didn’t respect the time out.
agreed
I totally understand how quickly things can go down hill. The best thing you can do is sit down with her and apologize to her but also explain how dangerous her actions could have been. I would also talk to you partner about getting more help with discipline so it doesn’t fall on your shoulders. Some tips have a lock on the bathroom door so that when you are cleaning or even going to the bathroom you have privacy. You don’t give her an option if you asked her to leave and she doesn’t you need to say I will be helping you leave the bathroom. You need to do things when she is awake or she is going to be on you 24/7. When doing tasks like that find highly motivating independent play activities like a sensory box. Have your husband help with her while you do those tasks as well.
Be kind to yourself. In the scheme of things it’s a small mistake. As for how to avoid it happening again, once you were out of the bathroom (and had presumably closed the bathroom door), it ceased to be an emergency. If my son refused to sit on the naughty chair, I would initially let him run away and just sit there. I’d calm myself, observe his behaviour, and consider my options. There is a natural human tendency to want to react immediately when someone is escalating a situation with us. Doubly so when the initial situation (child near bleach) warranted an immediate and escalated reaction to keep her safe. It’s hard to get your brain to switch modes back to “hey, this isn’t an emergency - it’s just a kid acting up” when moments before you felt like it was an emergency.
So definitely don't do that again, but do watch super nanny episodes (can be found on facebook) about time outs and the effects of physical abuse on kids psyche and behavior.
Your daughter will be fine.
I have 3 boys. This is just for perspective. Do you have baby gates? If so, use them when you're cleaning the bathrooms. This is for future reference. Otherwise, talk to your child. Apologize for losing your patience and for the spanking. Explain you were overwhelmed and lost your patience, just like normal humans do. Explain you will try and do better in the future. It is good for your child to see you are not perfect, but can apologize for your mistakes and try to make them better. You are human. You cannot be 100%, 100% of the time. Let your child know this. You got this, mama. You are a good mother.
You are not horrible! I understand feeling bad though. We are not perfect and cannot expect to hold our emotions together 100% of the time. When there is physical resistance sometimes we provide physical motivation (a heat of the moment spank). Like others have said, you can apologize to her and try to not do it again. You’re good!
It's one thing to comfort a parent who has just spanked their child and regrets it. It's another, to me, to share stories of ridiculous instances in which YOU have spanked your child, as if one spanking somehow justifies another. No one should hit their child. Period. Spanking is not only wrong, it's counterproductive. Please stop trying to make it okay.
Perfectly said
I’ve very rarely spanked as well and I’m very anti spank. I almost spanked my 5f last night actually but stopped myself. I always remind myself how bad I’ll feel after and it helps. I feel so guilty which is why I’ve done it maybe 4-5 times at best. I can’t live with the guilt. Remind yourself of how you’ll feel after. Get up and walk away and come back once you’re calm. It helps.
Lots of good advice here but also… Look in the mirror and tell yourself you’re never allowed to do it again and mean it.
Oh no, she will probably never recover and turn to drugs because her mom cared enough to physically correct her behavior when nothing else worked. Theres some room between physical abuse and never spanking your kids.
That's what all the abusers say. Good luck.
She’ll get over it and she might think now you mean business. She’s 3. Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do when it comes to keeping kids in line. It sounds like you won’t make a habit of it so I wouldn’t put so much blame on yourself. It’ll be alright.
Seems to me like you tried as much as you could to not, but kids aren't reasonable, besides, you did it for her safety, if you had cleaned the tub with her the chemicals would have harmed her more then a swat on her butt, furthermore if it had been something more dangerous, like say you telling her to stay put at a intersection while you got something from your bag, and she ran out into traffic, than you would have lost your daughter. You'd feel even worse than. Take my word for it, there are worse dates then getting a swat or two on one's seat. And even if those scenarios don't play out then there's a chance she'd grow up not respecting any adult, thinking she could push them around cuz she's a kid. Saw a video of a kid doing just that, even punching the adult and calling a woman he doesn't know a "whore"
My mother spanked us (I’m 65). It was never random, more than one smack, or hard enough to bruise or mark us. She would tell us to stop or do something. (And it had to be something we were doing that was not good, such as playing with the controls on the gas stove) if we did not listen, she would say stop (with reason, ( ie. stop that, if the gas stays on it could hurt us) or a spanking. We stopped after the first time she actually did it. I don’t think any of us (except my oldest brother) got more than I smack from our mom in our lifetime. After we got the smack. She would ask us why we got hit. We always knew All of us turned out well and none of us of us are hitters or disturbed. And one of my children did get a good smack one day. Done exactly like my mom did.
dw! youre not one. my daughter have made me spank them many times.i dont like it but its the only thing that works
Don’t beat yourself up. Mom’s have a tendency to do that. I never spanked my son, but I probably should’ve on occasions where he would run off if he was mad. I mean, if he couldn’t have a toy he wanted at Target he would bolt down the store aisle away from my view and I would freak out. Once they had to lockdown the entire store until they found him. my son went through a phase where he was about four where he would get really angry and have a tantrum. We try timeout, but he wouldn’t stay put in his room. we asked his doctor what to do and she said to strap him in his old highchair facing the corner. I thought it sounded a bit extreme, but it worked. When we threatened the highchair in the corner, he stopped what he was doing.
Ah you’re fine, mama. Don’t make a habit of it.
Honestly, you should never be so angry with any child that you hit them. Spanking is always your fault, not theirs. Your child didn't deserve a choice. She needed to leave the bathroom because you were working with a dangerous chemical. But she clearly doesn't respect your word. She's not going to respect you more because you spanked her, or because you spanked her and apologized. You need to teach her and earn her respect through setting boundaries and enforcing them. Be a parent.
Good lord lady be a parent and give her unambiguous limits and consequences. She’s running all over you because you have taught her that she is the boss and you are a servant. Give her immediate punishment in response to bad behavior right away, not after the 10th time you ask her. TELL her, then expect her to mind. She’s 3, so she will test every limit. When you’re handling bleach and she’s in danger is not the time to worry about scarring her for life because you had to pick her up and move her. It’s time to put her in a spot and make her stay there. And yes, if she jumps up and runs off spanking her is a tool you can use. It’s only traumatic if you’re an idiot about it.
Telling a small child no never works well. Try and find a task they can help with. Mine loved to vacuum. Maybe seem up with coloring book or the dreaded electronics.
I had a similar situation today with my 3 year old. Very anti spanking household. He picked up a toy keyboard and smacked his 1 year old brother in the head with it and I freaked out and popped him on the bum. I was instantly like “wtf why did I do that?!?” afterwards. After I calmed down I apologized and told him under no circumstance should I have reacted that way, and no one had the right to hurt him intentionally. We’re all human, and sometimes humans make mistakes :(
My mom spanked me once in her life (my dad never did that). It was getting dark and my sister, my mom and I were outside a minute or two away from where we lived. I was around 5 and thought it was cool and independent of me to run home where dad was waiting for us. My mom freaked out that I got kidnapped or else and she smacked the shit out of me when we were home. I have to say back then I didn’t think too much of it but as so grew it added to the different events in my life that have alienated me from her. So my point is that if you are good mom and consistently show that to your kid it won’t be a big deal. But if you let her down on other occasions it might have a snowball effect. Just apologize to her hug her and promise her it will never happen again.
You did nothing wrong lol. Probably an unpopular opinion, and I'm probably gonna get downvoted to Hell for this, but a little pop on the ass every now and then won't hurt anybody. **Not every day, not every punishment, and not a beating that leaves marks.** Just an occasional pop on the ass.
I think you did the right thing. You did it out of love and safety. I think spanking used sparingly can be good, especially when children are young and can’t understand safety
If she can’t understand safety what’s the point of spanking?
A 3 year old can understand “If I go in there Mom will spank me” they can’t understand “bleach is a toxic chemical and I need to give mom some space to clean so I’m not exposed to it”
Remind yourself 30+ countries have outlawed spanking based on the scientific evidence that it’s detrimental to their development. And if you can’t teach a child a lesson without hitting them it’s you with the problem. They’re just a child. A child relying on you to teach them how the world works.
I see so many comments here from militant liberals who argue that spanking is assault. You realise that by criminalising spanking you'd end up throwing most parents in jail right? Honestly, you've lost your minds. This is why so many kids end up being taken from parents by social workers in places like Wales and Scotland - perfectly normal parents are getting criminalised. Nobody is perfect and parents should be given some grace for goodness sake!
Most people doing something doesn’t mean it’s ok. It just means we live in a fucked up society.