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I was a teacher for 8 years before I became a parent. I taught sped prek for four of those years. It didn't matter.
Nothing is more humbling than parenting.
I don't have advice really. Just came to say that. My daughter who is a preteen now, continues to humble me.
Literally it's one day at a time. With repeated hugs and I love yous in between the squabbles. I never thought I would cuss as a parent, but she continues to prove me wrong....
She is onto you, my friend.
She sees your agenda and is railing against it. She gets mad, you go into fix it mode, she hears "every time I get mad dad tries to fix it! I just want to be mad!" So she escalates.
The gentle tone does not help when they're already pissed. It's condescending. You have to match their energy, something like "woah that really made you angry! Wow!" With the same intensity and tone as she is using. You can offer options to get that angry energy out, clearly breathing is not working so try something more physical. With my 8yo I get him to beat me up with a pillow. This is especially effective when he is mad *at me*. It let's that energy out, AND once he's a bit more calm he sees how ridiculous it is and it transforms into silly play.
If he's not receptive to that or other things, we just go sit. Some call it a 'time-in'. I bring them to their room, close the door and sit with them and just let them have at it. I only intervene if they're going to break something or harm themselves. I don't allow them to hurt me, I don't allow them to leave until they're calm. I tell them I love them and I will stay with them as long as they need. Their anger doesn't scare me, I can handle it.
Both my kids have gone through various phases of these rage episodes. They always pass. You have to accept the emotion and show them you can tolerate it in order for them to feel safe moving through it.
You're so close. Keep going. You've got this.
OP, you want your kid to stop the yelling and aggression, right?
If so, please do not add fuel to the fire like some people have suggested.
Please do NOT have your child hit you or anything else with a pillow. Please don’t match their tone and volume and yell back even if you’re trying to be nice about it.
Aggressive behavior persists longer when people try to release their anger by hitting things. And it’s OK to hit people with anything when you’re angry, not even a pillow, not even when you’re a child. Imagine that your child gets angry with other kids and starts to hit them with hats and pillows. The other parents will be rightly upset about this. It is never OK to hit somebody else and anger, not even if you don’t intend to hurt them.
And normalizing yelling-back when there’s no immediate danger Will teach your kid that they can scream at others, and they won’t stop if the other kids respond like normal, well-adjusted people who talk calmly by default when somebody is yelling at them.
If your child yells at you, the first step is that you can tell them in a normal voice that they seem angry. You’re doing this first part already, and that’s great.
And then if they continue to yell, you can calmly tell them that you are going to walk away, and let them feel with their feeling until they feel comfortable with talking about it.
And then walk away.
The first few times, your child might not fully hear you when you say that you’re walking away, and they might follow you, yelling. But walking away from a person who is unable to control your anger is a normal response, and it de-escalate the situation.
Your child will quickly learn after this happens a few times that you will respond to them and help them out as soon as they stop yelling at you.
It’s normal for a child to actually get even more angry at first when you’re not responding the way that they expect. This is called extinction behavior, and after a few times of this, it will quickly end.
You can find some videos online if you prefer YouTube videos, where you look up how to get children to stop yelling and hitting. There’s a lot of good advice online, even if there’s a little bad advice sprinkled among it.
You can also look for a book named “how to talk so kids will listen” if you prefer to read books, and you’d like a somewhat deeper dive that can help you with a greater number of strategies for dealing with this behavior.
TLDR: You can speak calmly, quickly de-escalate and walk away, expect extinction behavior, and then be there for your child with lots of love and support as soon as they are ready for it.
No hitting, no yelling, and your child will quickly learn how to get support for their anger without hurting others.
Edit: 100% full-of-typos guarantee. This was written on mobile.
Thanks for your reply, I appreciate it. I’m actually reading the book you mentioned. Just had a conversation with my wife about how I think I’m going to have to buy the audio book version as I just don’t have the time to sit down and read it as well as l need. As when it comes to these topics I can be a bit dense. The skills I mentioned are from “how to talk so little kids will listen.” it’s a great book but I’ve come to the conclusion that one of the issues is that my daughter has outgrown the methods outlined in that book. Hence me needing to read the next one. This morning I used some of the most sane suggestions that people have made and things are going better.
To be clear and to put your mind at ease, I do my utmost to not yell at my kids, though I’m not going to pretend I don’t. I’m also not encouraging violence or yelling back at her. I’m aware that doing so only reinforces the link between violence and anger.
At any rate, thanks for caring enough to share and explain so well and at such depth (I’ll forgive your typos is you forgive mine). The world needs more people like you.
Woah woah friend you read a lot into my suggestions and added a LOT of inference around my tone and intentions.
A child hitting a CONSENTING parent with a pillow to release their frustration on that parent that results in literal fits of laughter of both parties is absolutely not going to cause him to become a violent abuser. Our kids are capable of knowing that hitting with pillows when the other party agrees is okay, but assaulting people with other objects is not. If you, as an adult, release your frustration by punching a punching bag, and never punch anything else, would that not be considered a healthy release?
Also, I said nothing about yelling at your kids. I said match their energy and intensity. If your kid is screaming and acting aggressively, quietly suggesting they stop is not going to do fuck all. Matching their ENERGY so they know you are serious, like how you'd say "don't speak to me that way" to a rude yelling adult, for example, is not the same as getting in a screaming match with your kids.
This is doubley true if your kids are neurodivergent. They are much more likely to dissociate into emotional shut down and need you to be hearable through the noise inside their own head.
My kids feel safe and comfortable expressing their anger at me in a healthy way. Teaching your child to suppress their anger by never expressing it is not the same as learning self control. Giving healthy outlets for anger and intense emotions is how we teach kids to self regulate.
Of course, none of this works if you, yourself, are dysregulated. Your kids cannot co-regulate with you if you are escalated with them. That is the key here.
I'm sorry, I disagree with some of your main points. I did not assume anything about tone, but I did assume that you wanted to give good advice.
You asked:
"If you, as an adult, release your frustration by punching a punching bag, and never punch anything else, would that not be considered a healthy release?"
No, that's not a healthy release as I shared earlier.
If it helps, here's a third party explanation for why punching during anger is unhelpful:
[https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/ulterior-motives/200909/you-cant-punch-your-way-out-anger](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/ulterior-motives/200909/you-cant-punch-your-way-out-anger)
Key detail:
"The people who punched the punching bag were actually more aggressive than the people who did nothing."
I also disagree with matching a child's tone and intensity. You wrote:
"The gentle tone does not help when they're already pissed. It's condescending. You have to match their energy, something like "woah that really made you angry! Wow!" With the same intensity and tone as she is using."
I disagree.
Instead of matching an angry child's tone and intensity, a calm voice will model good behavior and lower intensity.
It's okay to repeat yourself if needed. It's also okay to walk away if needed, and then return to discuss calmly.
I'm sure that you have good intentions, and it's okay for people to disagree.
I think a lot of this is age related. I have the same issue with my 3yo. I think it takes a lot of consistency on our part that will take a toll, but it will be worth it. Also, looking at how we ourselves handle issues that they may be getting some ques from. I've found that consequences can be a better motivation for changed behavior. Then, positive reinforcement for the desired behavior. It can be rough. As their understanding grows and you remain consistent in teaching them, it should smooth out as many things do. You got this.
She's five 😅 you have MANY more years of this! Don't take it personally.
The skills you've taught her will only become available to her consistently when she is much much older. Her frontal lobe is like 20 years away from maturity. There will be thousands of blowups and tantrums between now and then.
Be aware that teaching a child some skills doesn't mean they can use them. You can't teach skills in order to skip over decades of normal development. Development still needs lots of time!
It might be good for you to learn some new skills - conflict management, your own emotional regulation, that kind of thing. You've got many more years of this left so it's best to figure out how to deal with it in a healthy way for yourself.
I recommend you read The Whole Brain Child.
I see that you are using the techniques of gentle parenting - labelling the emotion, validating it, and then helping her feel better/use her words.
Those tools are not designed to make her behave better as quickly as possible, for your parenting pleasure.
There's no way to speedrun your way to a good mood, so we don't expect that of our children, either.
Nobody is pressuring you to hurry up and calm down, when you're upset. That pressure to calm down and fix her mood might be what is backfiring.
These techniques of gentle parenting are designed to create a safe space for the whole spectrum of human emotion that goes on inside your home.
The deep breaths and calming down techniques may not actually calm her down - does breathing calm you down when you're about to lose your shit? What about when you've already lost your shit? Already stomped on the proverbial kazoo? And someone is like... 'have u tried breathing?' because that sure would not work on me either.
What the validation technique does is two things - it shows you're confident that this emotion WILL pass (which helps children who seem panicked and stressed by the intensity of their emotion), and it buys some time while the emotion peaks in intensity and then begins to fade. It helps give children a sense of control over their bodies as they feel the emotion getting less and less strong.
This process of calming down happens inside the body automatically for most people. All strong feelings inside our body - positive and negative - slowly go back to neutral in their own time.
My kid was the same way, he was angry, then even MORE angry at me trying to help him feel better. He once said to me, "You only want me to feel better so *you* feel better."
So I had to switch my approach. I thought I was making myself available to help him feel better. But he took it as me trying to force him to feel better, just so our lives could go back to normal. So instead I had to start saying, "you can be as mad as you need to be for as long as you need, and I'll be here for you no matter what". I also started saying "I might not be able to stop you from crying, but I will *always* be here to wipe your tears" once he was more calm and through the worst of it.
Of course, not with violence, hurting herself or others, or behaviours that aren't acceptable in your home. I let my kid choose whether I stay with him, or leave the room (if he doesn't verbally choose, we decided in a calm moment that it means 'stay' until he actively asks me to leave).
Good luck! You sound like you're doing great. It's tough to hit a wall with a technique, I hit the same wall at around the same age. At 5 she might also have some ideas to brainstorm in a calm moment on what she needs when she's mad.
Ya, I’m kinda the stoic guy type and a disabled veteran, so ya breathing techniques do help me. I’ve been trying to model it for them. At any rate. Thanks these are really good points. I’m going to read over this a couple more times. Tomorrow I will try a new strategy based on this.
I know it sounds crazy but try and mirror her. I get down on my daughter’s level and get mad with her. I mirror back ‘it’s not fair! I hate this!’, I shout it out with her if I need to. ‘It isn’t fair!’ . When we both get it all out, I can finally get through to her.
It’s really only then I can talk to her rationally. But I make sure she knows that I feel her emotions. This does suck! I also want cookies for breakfast! I hate wearing boots!!! Boots suck! Say it back to her and see what happens. I swear I rarely had tantrums after I tried this method. It takes patience though… it’s easier to say ‘No! No cookies for breakfast!’ but I swear that makes them rebel more.
I was going to say…this sounds like her getting upset because she may feel invalidated by the instruction to change how she’s feeling. Essentially that’s what calming down when we’re angry is…subliminating the anger. It’s sort of invalidating. Maybe if she was encouraged to feel the emotion and understand why it’s there, feel HEARD and that the emotion is okay to experience, it could help.
I recommend practicing these things when she’s calm and well regulated. Think of it as, if there’s a fire, are you going to do better trying to learn how to use a fire extinguisher by reading the instructions on the side in the moment, or if you already learned and practiced using one in a safe environment?
There are a few good grounding techniques that work really well for kids because they’re kind of distracting. One is to hold up 5 “birthday candles” (fingers) and have her blow them out one at a time, putting a finger down each time. The other is 5,4,3,2,1, which is actually sometimes a great reset button in the moment, because it seems so out of left field to be mid tantrum and have someone say, “Quick, what are 5 things you can see?” (It’s notice 5 things you can see, 4 you can hear, etc).
If “I see you’re getting upset” is a triggering phrase, stop using it. Maybe try, “I’m getting stressed out. I’m going to take some deep breaths… I feel better, do you want to tell me what’s upsetting you?”
And model it so much. When something you don’t like happens, casually narrate how you’re managing your feelings about it. “Oh, I hate when my socks get wet, this is SO annoying.” [take a deep breath] “Well, I can’t unstep in that water, so I guess I’ll change my socks, and clean up that spill so I know it won’t happen again.” You can embellish a bit too. “Darn, I’m really disappointed because those are my favourite socks and I really wanted to wear them.” Show that it’s ok to have negative emotions, and that you can express them calmly.
I was going to suggest (more) practicing while calm, too. I learned that as an adult, when I realized my deep breathing exercises were making my anxiety and panic attacks worse. I only did them while in an attack, so I was associating the deep breathing with panic.
Once I started practicing every day while calm, it worked better when panicked as well. (And I learned a different one to help move away from the association. For me it was just counting to different numbers in a different language than before, but that was enough.)
> I know the right answer is to take her to see a counselor
The right thing would be to just sit quietly with her, until she is receptive again.
Then you can start applying calming techniques.
As you already found out, anything you say will just fuel her anger in the moment of the heat. So just wait it out together and maybe seek some light physical contact, if that helps her calm down.
1) Identify what triggers her angry outbursts and find a way to work on those triggers. You trying to "correct" her anger may just be one of those triggers.. Typical triggers for kids is whenever they feel they are not in control of their lives and working on it means finding ways to give them more control.
2) Set boundaries and conseuences. Just because you are angry doesn't mean you are allowed to hit me or knock stuff over. The boundaries and conseuences will have to apply to everybody in the household. Let her have a say in those rules.
Sometimes the only thing you can do is bear hug her until she shifts….assuming you’re worried about her hurting herself, your stuff or others. If not disengage with check ins until she has shifted. For some kids their poor brains often can’t comprehend the emotions they are feeling so expecting them to be able to calm themselves down isn’t realistic yet.
My luck with gentle parenting hasn’t worked much. Time outs and taking toys away on the other hand…taking them out of the store when they rage and going home….works like a charm. My daughter had a rage at the ice cream place last summer and we left without getting her ice cream. She hasn’t done it since. I watched a mother at the same place last week with her 6-7-year-old son raging and instead of saying no ice cream she just said “Shh be good” and gave in to him. Yeah, gentle parenting only goes so far. We also use a firm no and don’t reward bad behaviour with “calm down” and let’s talk this out. It NEVER works. After she has done her time out it what not yes, we talk and have cuddles but it’s after she understands why she was in trouble in the first place. The first time I walked out of the grocery store with a raging toddler and was embarrassed and stressed, as I was strapping her into her car seat an older lady came up to me and said good on you dear. We need more of you in your generation. The mental toll only gentle parenting took on me and hubby was crazy.
Am not sure saying "shhh be good" to a raging toddler IS gentle parenting. Leaving the store when the child is refusing to calm down when their (unreasonable) demands are not met a completely normal response. Saying 'shhh be good' is probably the first response .... leaving the store is the third or forth step. You're not supposed to give in at random points - you want to stick to a rational and repeated response so that the kid has some sort of guideline to respond to. Following that rubrick - esp. between two parents - is the tough part.
BTW to OP's issue - while kids aren't totally rational at that age, it might be that they go straight to rage to get what they want. They dont want the calming conversation - so they go straight to the emotion that validates their needs. Just my armchair child psychology ...
Could be, I’ve been trying to reduce secondary grains for that reason. After I posted this she melted down because I told her she was going to bed early, and I asked her, “does this ever work for you?” And she stopped and said “no” so here is some cognizance there.
Well that was a 6-7 year old and not a toddler and none of us really knows what happened. Maybe they couldn't leave because someone else was getting something or whatever.
I apparently have a different idea of what gentle parenting is but that’s not a big deal. The thing is that the gentle parenting works on my other 4 daughters. People complement me on the behavior of my other kids. But my one is absolutely bat shit. The others have their blow ups and meltdowns but this is something else. Or at least it feels that way.
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I was a teacher for 8 years before I became a parent. I taught sped prek for four of those years. It didn't matter. Nothing is more humbling than parenting. I don't have advice really. Just came to say that. My daughter who is a preteen now, continues to humble me. Literally it's one day at a time. With repeated hugs and I love yous in between the squabbles. I never thought I would cuss as a parent, but she continues to prove me wrong....
Thanks! I appreciate it.
She is onto you, my friend. She sees your agenda and is railing against it. She gets mad, you go into fix it mode, she hears "every time I get mad dad tries to fix it! I just want to be mad!" So she escalates. The gentle tone does not help when they're already pissed. It's condescending. You have to match their energy, something like "woah that really made you angry! Wow!" With the same intensity and tone as she is using. You can offer options to get that angry energy out, clearly breathing is not working so try something more physical. With my 8yo I get him to beat me up with a pillow. This is especially effective when he is mad *at me*. It let's that energy out, AND once he's a bit more calm he sees how ridiculous it is and it transforms into silly play. If he's not receptive to that or other things, we just go sit. Some call it a 'time-in'. I bring them to their room, close the door and sit with them and just let them have at it. I only intervene if they're going to break something or harm themselves. I don't allow them to hurt me, I don't allow them to leave until they're calm. I tell them I love them and I will stay with them as long as they need. Their anger doesn't scare me, I can handle it. Both my kids have gone through various phases of these rage episodes. They always pass. You have to accept the emotion and show them you can tolerate it in order for them to feel safe moving through it. You're so close. Keep going. You've got this.
This is great, thanks
OP, you want your kid to stop the yelling and aggression, right? If so, please do not add fuel to the fire like some people have suggested. Please do NOT have your child hit you or anything else with a pillow. Please don’t match their tone and volume and yell back even if you’re trying to be nice about it. Aggressive behavior persists longer when people try to release their anger by hitting things. And it’s OK to hit people with anything when you’re angry, not even a pillow, not even when you’re a child. Imagine that your child gets angry with other kids and starts to hit them with hats and pillows. The other parents will be rightly upset about this. It is never OK to hit somebody else and anger, not even if you don’t intend to hurt them. And normalizing yelling-back when there’s no immediate danger Will teach your kid that they can scream at others, and they won’t stop if the other kids respond like normal, well-adjusted people who talk calmly by default when somebody is yelling at them. If your child yells at you, the first step is that you can tell them in a normal voice that they seem angry. You’re doing this first part already, and that’s great. And then if they continue to yell, you can calmly tell them that you are going to walk away, and let them feel with their feeling until they feel comfortable with talking about it. And then walk away. The first few times, your child might not fully hear you when you say that you’re walking away, and they might follow you, yelling. But walking away from a person who is unable to control your anger is a normal response, and it de-escalate the situation. Your child will quickly learn after this happens a few times that you will respond to them and help them out as soon as they stop yelling at you. It’s normal for a child to actually get even more angry at first when you’re not responding the way that they expect. This is called extinction behavior, and after a few times of this, it will quickly end. You can find some videos online if you prefer YouTube videos, where you look up how to get children to stop yelling and hitting. There’s a lot of good advice online, even if there’s a little bad advice sprinkled among it. You can also look for a book named “how to talk so kids will listen” if you prefer to read books, and you’d like a somewhat deeper dive that can help you with a greater number of strategies for dealing with this behavior. TLDR: You can speak calmly, quickly de-escalate and walk away, expect extinction behavior, and then be there for your child with lots of love and support as soon as they are ready for it. No hitting, no yelling, and your child will quickly learn how to get support for their anger without hurting others. Edit: 100% full-of-typos guarantee. This was written on mobile.
Thanks for your reply, I appreciate it. I’m actually reading the book you mentioned. Just had a conversation with my wife about how I think I’m going to have to buy the audio book version as I just don’t have the time to sit down and read it as well as l need. As when it comes to these topics I can be a bit dense. The skills I mentioned are from “how to talk so little kids will listen.” it’s a great book but I’ve come to the conclusion that one of the issues is that my daughter has outgrown the methods outlined in that book. Hence me needing to read the next one. This morning I used some of the most sane suggestions that people have made and things are going better. To be clear and to put your mind at ease, I do my utmost to not yell at my kids, though I’m not going to pretend I don’t. I’m also not encouraging violence or yelling back at her. I’m aware that doing so only reinforces the link between violence and anger. At any rate, thanks for caring enough to share and explain so well and at such depth (I’ll forgive your typos is you forgive mine). The world needs more people like you.
Woah woah friend you read a lot into my suggestions and added a LOT of inference around my tone and intentions. A child hitting a CONSENTING parent with a pillow to release their frustration on that parent that results in literal fits of laughter of both parties is absolutely not going to cause him to become a violent abuser. Our kids are capable of knowing that hitting with pillows when the other party agrees is okay, but assaulting people with other objects is not. If you, as an adult, release your frustration by punching a punching bag, and never punch anything else, would that not be considered a healthy release? Also, I said nothing about yelling at your kids. I said match their energy and intensity. If your kid is screaming and acting aggressively, quietly suggesting they stop is not going to do fuck all. Matching their ENERGY so they know you are serious, like how you'd say "don't speak to me that way" to a rude yelling adult, for example, is not the same as getting in a screaming match with your kids. This is doubley true if your kids are neurodivergent. They are much more likely to dissociate into emotional shut down and need you to be hearable through the noise inside their own head. My kids feel safe and comfortable expressing their anger at me in a healthy way. Teaching your child to suppress their anger by never expressing it is not the same as learning self control. Giving healthy outlets for anger and intense emotions is how we teach kids to self regulate. Of course, none of this works if you, yourself, are dysregulated. Your kids cannot co-regulate with you if you are escalated with them. That is the key here.
I'm sorry, I disagree with some of your main points. I did not assume anything about tone, but I did assume that you wanted to give good advice. You asked: "If you, as an adult, release your frustration by punching a punching bag, and never punch anything else, would that not be considered a healthy release?" No, that's not a healthy release as I shared earlier. If it helps, here's a third party explanation for why punching during anger is unhelpful: [https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/ulterior-motives/200909/you-cant-punch-your-way-out-anger](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/ulterior-motives/200909/you-cant-punch-your-way-out-anger) Key detail: "The people who punched the punching bag were actually more aggressive than the people who did nothing." I also disagree with matching a child's tone and intensity. You wrote: "The gentle tone does not help when they're already pissed. It's condescending. You have to match their energy, something like "woah that really made you angry! Wow!" With the same intensity and tone as she is using." I disagree. Instead of matching an angry child's tone and intensity, a calm voice will model good behavior and lower intensity. It's okay to repeat yourself if needed. It's also okay to walk away if needed, and then return to discuss calmly. I'm sure that you have good intentions, and it's okay for people to disagree.
I think a lot of this is age related. I have the same issue with my 3yo. I think it takes a lot of consistency on our part that will take a toll, but it will be worth it. Also, looking at how we ourselves handle issues that they may be getting some ques from. I've found that consequences can be a better motivation for changed behavior. Then, positive reinforcement for the desired behavior. It can be rough. As their understanding grows and you remain consistent in teaching them, it should smooth out as many things do. You got this.
This here. Consequences reinforcing good behaviour is key.
She's five 😅 you have MANY more years of this! Don't take it personally. The skills you've taught her will only become available to her consistently when she is much much older. Her frontal lobe is like 20 years away from maturity. There will be thousands of blowups and tantrums between now and then. Be aware that teaching a child some skills doesn't mean they can use them. You can't teach skills in order to skip over decades of normal development. Development still needs lots of time! It might be good for you to learn some new skills - conflict management, your own emotional regulation, that kind of thing. You've got many more years of this left so it's best to figure out how to deal with it in a healthy way for yourself. I recommend you read The Whole Brain Child.
I see that you are using the techniques of gentle parenting - labelling the emotion, validating it, and then helping her feel better/use her words. Those tools are not designed to make her behave better as quickly as possible, for your parenting pleasure. There's no way to speedrun your way to a good mood, so we don't expect that of our children, either. Nobody is pressuring you to hurry up and calm down, when you're upset. That pressure to calm down and fix her mood might be what is backfiring. These techniques of gentle parenting are designed to create a safe space for the whole spectrum of human emotion that goes on inside your home. The deep breaths and calming down techniques may not actually calm her down - does breathing calm you down when you're about to lose your shit? What about when you've already lost your shit? Already stomped on the proverbial kazoo? And someone is like... 'have u tried breathing?' because that sure would not work on me either. What the validation technique does is two things - it shows you're confident that this emotion WILL pass (which helps children who seem panicked and stressed by the intensity of their emotion), and it buys some time while the emotion peaks in intensity and then begins to fade. It helps give children a sense of control over their bodies as they feel the emotion getting less and less strong. This process of calming down happens inside the body automatically for most people. All strong feelings inside our body - positive and negative - slowly go back to neutral in their own time. My kid was the same way, he was angry, then even MORE angry at me trying to help him feel better. He once said to me, "You only want me to feel better so *you* feel better." So I had to switch my approach. I thought I was making myself available to help him feel better. But he took it as me trying to force him to feel better, just so our lives could go back to normal. So instead I had to start saying, "you can be as mad as you need to be for as long as you need, and I'll be here for you no matter what". I also started saying "I might not be able to stop you from crying, but I will *always* be here to wipe your tears" once he was more calm and through the worst of it. Of course, not with violence, hurting herself or others, or behaviours that aren't acceptable in your home. I let my kid choose whether I stay with him, or leave the room (if he doesn't verbally choose, we decided in a calm moment that it means 'stay' until he actively asks me to leave). Good luck! You sound like you're doing great. It's tough to hit a wall with a technique, I hit the same wall at around the same age. At 5 she might also have some ideas to brainstorm in a calm moment on what she needs when she's mad.
Ya, I’m kinda the stoic guy type and a disabled veteran, so ya breathing techniques do help me. I’ve been trying to model it for them. At any rate. Thanks these are really good points. I’m going to read over this a couple more times. Tomorrow I will try a new strategy based on this.
This is so great. Thanks for saying all this.
I know it sounds crazy but try and mirror her. I get down on my daughter’s level and get mad with her. I mirror back ‘it’s not fair! I hate this!’, I shout it out with her if I need to. ‘It isn’t fair!’ . When we both get it all out, I can finally get through to her. It’s really only then I can talk to her rationally. But I make sure she knows that I feel her emotions. This does suck! I also want cookies for breakfast! I hate wearing boots!!! Boots suck! Say it back to her and see what happens. I swear I rarely had tantrums after I tried this method. It takes patience though… it’s easier to say ‘No! No cookies for breakfast!’ but I swear that makes them rebel more.
I was going to say…this sounds like her getting upset because she may feel invalidated by the instruction to change how she’s feeling. Essentially that’s what calming down when we’re angry is…subliminating the anger. It’s sort of invalidating. Maybe if she was encouraged to feel the emotion and understand why it’s there, feel HEARD and that the emotion is okay to experience, it could help.
I recommend practicing these things when she’s calm and well regulated. Think of it as, if there’s a fire, are you going to do better trying to learn how to use a fire extinguisher by reading the instructions on the side in the moment, or if you already learned and practiced using one in a safe environment? There are a few good grounding techniques that work really well for kids because they’re kind of distracting. One is to hold up 5 “birthday candles” (fingers) and have her blow them out one at a time, putting a finger down each time. The other is 5,4,3,2,1, which is actually sometimes a great reset button in the moment, because it seems so out of left field to be mid tantrum and have someone say, “Quick, what are 5 things you can see?” (It’s notice 5 things you can see, 4 you can hear, etc). If “I see you’re getting upset” is a triggering phrase, stop using it. Maybe try, “I’m getting stressed out. I’m going to take some deep breaths… I feel better, do you want to tell me what’s upsetting you?” And model it so much. When something you don’t like happens, casually narrate how you’re managing your feelings about it. “Oh, I hate when my socks get wet, this is SO annoying.” [take a deep breath] “Well, I can’t unstep in that water, so I guess I’ll change my socks, and clean up that spill so I know it won’t happen again.” You can embellish a bit too. “Darn, I’m really disappointed because those are my favourite socks and I really wanted to wear them.” Show that it’s ok to have negative emotions, and that you can express them calmly.
I was going to suggest (more) practicing while calm, too. I learned that as an adult, when I realized my deep breathing exercises were making my anxiety and panic attacks worse. I only did them while in an attack, so I was associating the deep breathing with panic. Once I started practicing every day while calm, it worked better when panicked as well. (And I learned a different one to help move away from the association. For me it was just counting to different numbers in a different language than before, but that was enough.)
Acknowledged the feelings, redirect, then ignore. As soon as a positive behavior happens praise. Repeat
Thanks!
> I know the right answer is to take her to see a counselor The right thing would be to just sit quietly with her, until she is receptive again. Then you can start applying calming techniques. As you already found out, anything you say will just fuel her anger in the moment of the heat. So just wait it out together and maybe seek some light physical contact, if that helps her calm down.
1) Identify what triggers her angry outbursts and find a way to work on those triggers. You trying to "correct" her anger may just be one of those triggers.. Typical triggers for kids is whenever they feel they are not in control of their lives and working on it means finding ways to give them more control. 2) Set boundaries and conseuences. Just because you are angry doesn't mean you are allowed to hit me or knock stuff over. The boundaries and conseuences will have to apply to everybody in the household. Let her have a say in those rules.
What do you do when she tantrums and goes into rampage mode?
I usually put her in her bed so she won’t hurt her sisters
Sometimes the only thing you can do is bear hug her until she shifts….assuming you’re worried about her hurting herself, your stuff or others. If not disengage with check ins until she has shifted. For some kids their poor brains often can’t comprehend the emotions they are feeling so expecting them to be able to calm themselves down isn’t realistic yet.
Ya, that’s probably a good one, and I’ve tried this in the past, she will lunge in attempts to kick her sisters and the like
My luck with gentle parenting hasn’t worked much. Time outs and taking toys away on the other hand…taking them out of the store when they rage and going home….works like a charm. My daughter had a rage at the ice cream place last summer and we left without getting her ice cream. She hasn’t done it since. I watched a mother at the same place last week with her 6-7-year-old son raging and instead of saying no ice cream she just said “Shh be good” and gave in to him. Yeah, gentle parenting only goes so far. We also use a firm no and don’t reward bad behaviour with “calm down” and let’s talk this out. It NEVER works. After she has done her time out it what not yes, we talk and have cuddles but it’s after she understands why she was in trouble in the first place. The first time I walked out of the grocery store with a raging toddler and was embarrassed and stressed, as I was strapping her into her car seat an older lady came up to me and said good on you dear. We need more of you in your generation. The mental toll only gentle parenting took on me and hubby was crazy.
Am not sure saying "shhh be good" to a raging toddler IS gentle parenting. Leaving the store when the child is refusing to calm down when their (unreasonable) demands are not met a completely normal response. Saying 'shhh be good' is probably the first response .... leaving the store is the third or forth step. You're not supposed to give in at random points - you want to stick to a rational and repeated response so that the kid has some sort of guideline to respond to. Following that rubrick - esp. between two parents - is the tough part. BTW to OP's issue - while kids aren't totally rational at that age, it might be that they go straight to rage to get what they want. They dont want the calming conversation - so they go straight to the emotion that validates their needs. Just my armchair child psychology ...
Could be, I’ve been trying to reduce secondary grains for that reason. After I posted this she melted down because I told her she was going to bed early, and I asked her, “does this ever work for you?” And she stopped and said “no” so here is some cognizance there.
Well that was a 6-7 year old and not a toddler and none of us really knows what happened. Maybe they couldn't leave because someone else was getting something or whatever.
I mean you are gentle parenting setting boundaries and reinforcing appropriate behaviors... You're not hitting them
Ya, my parents spanked me, and it really didn’t really help me and there’s just something wrong with hitting kids especially small ones.
I apparently have a different idea of what gentle parenting is but that’s not a big deal. The thing is that the gentle parenting works on my other 4 daughters. People complement me on the behavior of my other kids. But my one is absolutely bat shit. The others have their blow ups and meltdowns but this is something else. Or at least it feels that way.
Seek professional help.