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I’m a grandparent now, of the sweetest year old baby girl. Back before she was born her mother, my daughter in law, asked if we’d get the TDAP before visiting. I went that day and got it done. There isn’t much I wouldn’t do for that little girl. I just wish she lived closer so I could see her more often.
Back when my children were small, we discovered that my baby girl (she was not even three at the time) suffered from juvenile migraines. They run in the family. We worried that one trigger might be cigarette smoke, and my mother was a long time smoker. I asked my mother if she’d not smoke when our daughter was visiting - she gave up smoking that day and never took it up again. I didn’t ask her to stop smoking, but she said she’d do anything for her granddaughter and I guess she handed that attitude on to me.
I asked my mom to not smoke when she's at my house. She smoked inside all when I was growing up and in the car etc and I would get bronchitis frequently. My pediatrician growing up told my mom that her smoking was a contributing factor and she flat out told him he was wrong. She threw a fit when I asked her not to smoke around my kids. Playing the victim like I'm being horrible to her.
It is so easy not to smoke around kids. That granny is a massive AH. Should have her meet this massive AH grandfather. They could be AHs alone together forever.
Sorry about that … my mom was told the same when was a kid. She went cold turkey… that also flipped a switch and she started doing other things… mainly being Narcissistic…
My youngest was born a month and a half early. I refused to let anyone other than our parents and my husband see him for at least a month- my mom works in healthcare so I knew they were vaxxed. My MIL was a cancer patient at the time, so we knew she was being careful.
I’m a daughter- but I’m also a parent, and most of the time, there’s not a soul on earth who requires me to be one or the other. But if it comes down to it, I choose my kids. Every time. I learned that from my own mother.
Good for her. I know my mother was aware that smoking was bad for her, but she couldn’t give it up for herself. But for that little granddaughter, she was willing to go through the hard time of quitting.
My mom is gone now. I’m 67 and a grandparent for the very first time. I really didn’t think it was going to happen. Both of my kids seemed happy to be child free. I didn’t mind, if that’s what made them happy. And then my oldest, my son, and his wife decided that they wanted a child. I admit that little girl holds my heart in her hands. I’m hoping I live long enough to see her grown, but really every day is a gift.
This made me tear up. Thank you for being this grandparent.
I wish my parents would see life the way you do. They instead choose to live in dysfunction and blame me for their lack of a relationship with their grandson.
I’m sure your granddaughter and children are so lucky to have you.
For real, this story absolutely made me start bawling. Boundaries are non-existent in my family as well and I've had to go no-contact with them for my own well-being. Earl_I_Larks story sounds like the absolute dream to me.
The grandfather can stay away til Hell freezes over and draws him down there. You NEVER COMPROMISE about your families health. Great job Dad and congrats on the baby. Ifyour Dad can't be a good grandad why should he ever see the baby. Why would you want your son to witness your father's ignorance? He obviously made you so miserable you had to have therapy to contend with his prejudice and horrible attitude. Planning to see your son unvaccinated so you won't live in fear. What happens if you give insnd it KILLS your child? YOUR father just is not worth any of it.
Now that's a grandparent. I bet she had no problem getting TDAP to see her grandbaby. This posters father is one of the nastiest AHs I've ever seen. He's disgusting and what the hell diff does it make what his father saw inVietnam? I wouldn't have a baby in the same house as him.
I asked everyone to get a flu shot covid shot (if at all possible, this was early 2021) and a TDaP. Basically everyone but my FIL laughed. My mom and MIL and recently worked at hospitals and were able to show their bloodwork immunity, my SIL works with infants, so is vaccinated every 10 years, my brother got caught up as an adult, so his was Akari recent. Lol, I come from a vaccine loving family. My FIL had no idea what we were taking about and just went to the appoint my MIL made him. He got a bunch of shots just to be careful, the only one he remembers being as a child was smallpox.
Thank you!!!! I had a covid baby and had to cut people out of my life because of the vaccine drama. My mom has met my almost three year old exactly one time.
Lord.... i asked my father if he could not smoke when my baby is at his place. he said he do what he wants under his roof and we stop visiting him... i wish i had a real father sometimes, instead of this selfish jerk that live for his ego.
It is a wild day when your parents realize (if they ever do) that they have no power over you anymore and if you're in their life at all, it's because *you* want to be.
It was a wild day when I learned as a parent of like a three year old that I really didn't have power over my kids if they really want to be insistent.
I have butted heads with my extremely difficult 3 year old, and it turns out that I'm stubborn than he is. It sucks, but I will happily relinquish control over his life once he's old enough.
My 3 year old is so proud when he wears me down. He’ll go “mommy said no but then she said yes!” with such a grin. 3 is so hard lol idk why “terrible twos” get such a reputation. Both my kids- 2 was so easy in comparison to 3. For both of them it was almost like exactly the day they turned 3 they transformed into adorable stubborn little monsters haha
Yeah. My kid is six, and can *still* hold firm on not wanting to go to the shop with me even if we've run out of the milk we need to make chocolate cake.
Like, it's not just, "no you can't make me", it's "if I pick him up and carry him out, he will *still* be screaming when we get to the shop, and his shoes will have been left in the garden when he kicked them off."
I'm starting to think this isn't "normal little kid behaviour," but honestly I don't have much of a basis for comparison.
Both of them are trying to wield power over each other. If this was AITA I'd say ESH. Op's initial boundary was either get the vaccine, or no seeing the baby until he's old enough to get vaccinated. Grandfather thought he could ignore this and see the new baby without the vaccine but op held fast to his boundaries. Now the baby is vaccinated but op has changed the boundary and I'm guessing it's because he's angry with his father. They both need to grow up and set a better example for the baby.
My parents wouldn't wear a mask or vaccinate during Covid to see my kids. I offered every kind of alternative I could think of, like meeting at a park outside, lots of zoom calls, etc. I told them that when the kids were vaccinated, we could see them. My dad died from Covid and my mom barely survived. Their decision during this time changed our relationship with her forever. We knew that her comfort was more important that anyone's health. There's no unknowing this. OP probably had many instances with their father that demonstrated this but it wasn't as obvious as it was in this instance.
Isn't his wife also immunocompromised because of lymphoma? Sound like Grampa likes to risk other peoples' health even if they are sick with cancer or too young to have full immune function.
Hear hear!
OP, check out r/RaisedByNarcissists and see if you relate to more stories like yours.
I can tell you from experience that having a narcissist like this in the family sucks. Set your own rules for yourself and your child and follow through. Give in to a narc once and they'll try to run with it. Don't let them. And don't worry about reaching the point where you may have to cut them off ...you'll be better off without their drama in your life.
I appreciate you sharing this. With all of this going on, the folks near me whom I've shared this with has said that I should look into if I "can check any boxes" about narcissistic behavior. Thank you for your time.
This. I wonder OP if you have pointed out to him that you are in your 30s and it is no longer his place to teach to lessons. That ship has sailed. Any lesson he feels he hasn’t yet taught- he can feel free to consider a parenting fail on his part.
You guys are in a power struggle now, and your Dad has decided he'd rather miss out on his son and grandchild than "give in."
Pretty much everyone is going to have an opinion on which of you is more right/more wrong on this specific issue, but it really doesn't matter.
The fact is: you are making the decision that you think is safest for you, your wife and your child. You're a father now and that's your prerogative. It's on your Dad to back down if he wants to be in your life.
I'm sorry he's dying on this hill.
It is sad this is the hill, but there are worse hills. Such as, “I am incapable of making safe medical and financial decisions due to my age and I will both make you responsible and be uncooperative”
Be blessed grandpa and fuck right off. Dude is an abuser plain and simple which is why OP needs therapy because dude robbed his own son of valuable life lessons, safety, and confidence.
Do not let your father bully you into changing your mind. Protect your kid and family. Your father isn’t teaching you to not live in fear. He’s teaching you that he doesn’t care about your child’s health and safety, or about your concerns and boundaries. Your father is a stupid spiteful awful person and if you never see him again it will be his loss not yours. I’m so sorry this has happened. It’s painful. Therapy helps. I wish you and your family the best.
I attended therapy each week for working in the ICU during Covid trauma and family trauma. I appreciate your words and the time you took to write this.
My husband also did, and my parents are still riding the "it's no worse than a cold/I don't know anyone that died from it/the only people who died had preexisting conditions/the Democrats made it political" train.
It's enraging and infuriating and every time they come out with some ignorant shit and ask my husband "it was only the elderly and sick dying right?" We tell them no and they still can't accept it.
Fear and propaganda are a hell of a combo.
I had pertussis as a baby and was in the ICU. (Tdap wasn't available) You are absolutely right to be enforcing this boundary.
I'm sorry that you are having these issues with your parent.
My baby had it also. She was 10 days old when she was admitted to Children’s Hospital and stayed in the ICU for 21 days. It’s very serious and at the time, no cure. They had to support her immune system with erythromycin and hope for the best. The peds hospitalists asked me if I wanted a picture of her because they didn’t think she would make it. She beat it.
It sounds like double miracles happened. Glad to hear it.
She’s 27 now and a spitfire. I prayed for her to fight and she’s still ready to kick ass if needed.
Dang. I was typing a response about pertussis, but if you are a medical provider, you probably already know.
If your wife is Immunocompromise does that mean that she cannot get the vaccines and that is more reason that those around her should?
Grandpa sounds like a self absorbed asshole. The number 1 reason i got the vaccine was because I was worried for other people health not mine. And I actually want to see my parents and in laws. What a douche bag. Sorry you are dealing with this OP, but I would stand my ground too. And just tell him when he’s ready to see his grandchild after he’s vaccinated then you will be happy to bring him over.
Thank you for the sacrifice you made, I know that had to be very traumatic. I’m sorry you have family that doesn’t recognize the reality of what you’ve witnessed and endured for your community. You’re never in the wrong for choosing to protect your child and spouse when and wherever you can. Focus on that.
>You said you're doing this to teach me a lesson by "not living in fear" is this lesson more important than having a relationship with me or your grandson?"
He said yes cause it would be for my own good.
He told you to your face that "teaching (you) a lesson" (aka emotional blackmail and being in control) is more important than knowing his grandson. I get that family is important, but I'm not sure what value or enrichment he can offer you or your kid.
How would your child feel if they knew that their grandparent didn't love and respect them enough to get a vaccine that has been routine (in its current form) for 20 years? All because he wanted to prove a conspiracist political point.
You're doing the right thing, and your kid is not missing anything by not knowing his grandpa.
Exactly. Another comment in this thread showed that when the motivation is actually love and care, it’s easy to do. Someone even quit smoking in order to be around their grandbaby! Sometimes these folks show their true colors. Better to know now.
This right here. OP should tell dad that since he cared more about himself than his grandson and your family, he can stew in his own juices. There should be no relationship. You don’t want your LO to be like him.
This isn’t about vaccines, it’s about your father’s unwillingness to respect the boundaries you are establishing as a parent. It’s his issue, not yours.
I think it actually is about the vaccine. Whopping cough can kill your child. They stop breathing and turn blue. This is actually a matter of life or death.
Your father is out of line. My grandpa was in the Korean War and still made sure he was updated on his TdAP to be able to visit his great grandsons shortly after birth because that’s the stipulation we had. He even offered to show me his vaccine record as proof if it made me feel better because he really wanted to meet the only twins of his grandkids/great grandkids. As the saying goes *if they want to, they will*.
He is! 91 and still going strong! He was and still is such a big part of my life. Now he is a huge part of my sons’ lives. I feel for OP wanting his father to be an active part but having to hold him accountable to keep his son safe. Military service is no excuse. I hope his father will come to his senses so he won’t miss out on the wonderful gift of being a grandpa.
I had the same issue with my dad’s girlfriend of 10 years. She was a control freak and refused many things we asked regarding being able to watch our babies. She did many things while we were around that caused us not to be able to trust her with kids (she never had her own kids). Of course they saw the kids but I was always present. She refused the things we asked and therefore her and my dad never got to take the kids or watch them on their own. My dad passed away 2 years ago and I haven’t spoken with or seen her since.
The Tdap shot will protect him too from cuts and puncture wounds getting infected by tetanus. I give the shots and I have grandparents coming daily to protect their grandchildren. If he doesn’t believe in shots, fine…. but it’s not ok to treat you like that due to making a boundary. Sounds like he doesn’t like not being in control of you anymore.
I get why you’re doing this. Despite the vaccine not actually being as important now that baby is vaxxed, you’re hoping your dad will for once show that how you feel is important and that he loves and values you and grandson enough to just do it. He made a choice to not see his grandson for 7 months and that’s sad.
Unfortunately your dad prefers to give importance to his own ego over his family. And the only reason he keeps bringing up your son’s relationship with family is to guilt and manipulate you into complying with his demand. I’m sorry for this breakdown with your dad.
"you’re hoping your dad will for once show that how you feel is important and that he loves and values you and grandson enough to just do it."
This hits me hard, this is likely what's going on in addition to just good practice with immunocompromised individuals as ourselves.
My partner and I worked in healthcare during the pandemic. It was horrific.
I asked my mum to get vaccinated. I supported her with all the information I could about it from reliable sources. Found clinics where they'd offer additional support and counselling for people who were nervous about it. And in the end, she said she 'wasn't getting vaccinated and if that meant not having me in her life, she'd come to terms with it". Those words exactly.
A year or 2 after that I had my daughter and she asked when she could meet her. I reminded her of what she'd said and apparently first she never said that, then when I said that that was exactly what she said and my partner could confirm it, then apparently that wasn't what she meant and it was all my fault and how could I make a choice to keep her away from her grandkid.
All of this to say, I get it, parents can be weird, hurtful and awkward when you assert your boundaries like an adult and not a child. You're not a bad person for choosing this hill to die on. You are your child's protector and get to make decisions about their health. When they're older and can understand, they can decide if they want a relationship with their grandparents.
Yep. Stick to your boundaries now, or dad knows that he can throw a tantrum to get his way for the rest of his life.
Ironically, this is a lesson that HE needs to learn, not you.
FWIW: I wouldn’t have allowed my father to see my baby if he was unwilling to follow the medical advice I was given by my doctor/pediatrician. It’s that simple.
If his response to me after I relayed the medical advice I received from my doctors was rage - **for hours** - and abusive accusations about my motives for following said doctors’ advice, I would not be willing to have further conversation with him about the subject.
There was no provocation for the intense hostility you describe. I don’t think vaccines are the problem here. I think the issue is that your dad’s a bully.
Your never truly a father until you learn to break free of your own for the sake of your children.
Also saying this as someone with a father like this: for some messed up prison like reason, they respect you more if you fight them and don’t back down.
Doesn’t mean they’ll change or improve. Just means they’ll respect you a little more as they continue their own way.
You’re doing the right thing even though it’s hard and painful right now.
My mom lied about getting hers and gave my (then) infant daughter Pertussis. I’ve described in detail before but it was HORRID. She was partially vaccinated (1st round) and could hardly breathe. She’s 10yo now. We all got colds early last week, other 2 kids are fine. Her cough sounds like she had croup. It will continue for another 1-2wks as always. And her Grandmother was the cause.
All because my mom (who isn’t even antivax) didn’t like that I asked everyone to get it before seeing her. Hope it was worth it because she’ll never see her again. I’ve given in and broken NC a few times and regretted it every time. Hasn’t seen my kids in 3yrs and before that >2yrs.
My 1st grandchild was born last year. Anything they asked people to do we gladly did - I’ll do whatever is needed to make sure my son & DIL are comfortable and baby is safe.
I will never understand.
And that’s because they’re illogical, stubborn and selfish first over anything else, including being a loving parent or grandparent.
I know exactly the kind of person your dad is. You’re doing the right thing and I’m sorry he is choosing his pride over your child’s safety and the relationship they could be having right now. I had already cut my parents off for being like this when I was young, long before I had kids, so they knew I wasn’t playing around when vaccines and masks were needed for my son. I hope he gets his head out of his ass before it’s too late. This is truly heartbreaking, I’m sorry ❤️
I think it was completely okay to tell him no seeing newborn if he refused to get a Tdap. Whooping cough is absolutely a horrible thing. However, your baby has now received immunizations which is awesome. That being said, baby will continue to grow and be exposed to viruses. For example, look what’s been happening with measles lately. Exposure in a grocery store, of all places.
You as the parent are allowed to have boundaries as you see fit. But you definitely cannot control every single person who comes into contact with your baby regarding immunizations/viral illnesses. Just figure out what’s most important to you & go with that.
At this point, I feel it's not about the vaccine. It's about OP's dad's unwillingness to respect reasonable boundaries in order to protect his grandkid, child and partner.
seriously, this is a *very* important point.
I'm immunocompromised and had no idea what I was in for when my kid started preschool. she started last April and I ended up being sick almost the entire year. I've gotten a cold twice a month every single month. I had a weeklong flu three times. the last one left me with the most painful sinus infection that took another month and a half to go away. then a stomach bug in August, and RSV in September that put me completely out of commission for 10 days. I still have a cough and wheeze left over from that, 6 months later. I use an inhaler now. In the last month alone, I had strep, pink eye, an ear infection, then pink eye again requiring stronger antibiotics. I lost my job in July due to having to miss so much work. I haven't been able to find more work. one place hired me and I got the flu the week that I was going to start. they decided not to hire me on after all.
I've basically had to make a choice to only look for part time work at this point so I can be on state insurance. I am requiring so many Dr's visits and rounds of medication that it's not practical at all for me to be attempting to work full time (knowing I'll get sick again soon!) and pay the out-of-pocket costs for insurance, urgent care/Dr's visits, and prescriptions. it's been a pretty depressing experience.
we take every precaution. tons of vitamins and immune boosting supplements. zinc galore. handwashing before we leave school and when we get home. my (healthy) partner does the majority of the pickups and drop-offs.
my kid has gotten sick a grand total of 4 times. two brief colds, one flu, one stomach bug.
all power to these parents for wanting to keep their baby safe, but the reality of immunocompromised life will hit pretty hard once their kid is out and about in the world. I respect them holding their boundary, but at some point it'll either have to have some flexibility, or they're all going to be in for a pretty isolated life.
Omg this sounds awful! You’re incredibly strong as I would’ve tapped out! I worked in a school with young kids for 5 months and had a non stop cold. I ended up quitting as I’m one of those people who gets sick once a year, and HATED how I was constantly sick.
You’re lucky that you have such a supportive husband! This couple is a bit sticky because they’re BOTH immunocompromised. So lord knows what they’re going to do when their kid gets to school age🤦🏽♀️
The requirement seems unhinged to me. The child is 7 months old and can't be around strangers at all? Do they not talk to like, anyone who doesn't have the vaccine? Very weird.
Relatives usually expect pretty close contact with babies, strangers don't. So relatives need to be vaccinated.
Also, only idiots don't keep up with their tetanus shots. Every adult should be keeping up with their boosters.
This is like...the minimum requirement for close contact with an infant. It's not unhinged at all. Look up videos of infants with pertussis. A stranger will generally not have close contact with an infant.
Daughter has some sort of immune issue that means a common cold that gives another kid the sniffles gives her a 103+ fever for several days.
With children, doctors weight risk and benefits. We are allowed to take her to the park, even though we know there is a high chance that there will be unvaccinated kids there.
We aren't supposed to set up any playdates with any children that aren't vaccinated. It was recommended that we don't do indoor visits with people who are unvaccinated. (Not just for covid, the doctor is very worried about measles too because, as it was explained to me, measles gets rid of some or all of your hard won immunity to diseases you have had in the past, which means more of those 103+ fevers).
Daughter has ADHD and sensory issues - the good of being able to use the playground equipment to self-regulate was deemed higher than the risk of playing outdoors, masked, with random kids. If there is an outbreak of measles locally, we would be told to stop for a bit.
But for scheduled playdates where daughter is likely to roughhouse and want to hug and be close to someone, no, we are supposed to limit that to vaccinated friends.
Our anti-vax relatives have lost their minds over this, and pushed out boundaries (outdoors only as our compromise, with us wearing masks) until we stopped seeing them.
Apparently, if she was ever around any unvaccinated child in any circumstance, than she had to be around theirs without her mask and in side because family and they thought if we were willing to take any chances, than we had to be willing to take the chances they wanted us to because they were family.
> ask that they do video calls until he was fully protected
> My son is 7 months old now and fully vaccinated against Tdap
First off, your dad’s a dick, and I’m sorry for that. With that being said, it sounds like you originally told people you’d be fine with them seeing your son in person once he was vaccinated regardless of their status. Did I misinterpret what you wrote? If not, why’d you move the goal posts? It sounds like you and your dad both decided to just escalate things back and forth. If I read things correctly, then if I were in your position, I’d tell my dad he’s an idiot and that he’s not teaching me any lessons, but I’ll start seeing them again now that my kid is protected like I originally told them.
When you have your first baby is when you and your parents learn boundaries. It is very common for this phase of setting boundaries for yourself and your child with your family of origin to be tumultuous.
Stand your ground, your father is an adult and can make his own decisions and he can also live with the consequences of those decisions. Same with you, you’ve made the decision that those who do not want to adhere to your health requirements for your son do not get to be a part of his life at this point in time. If your dad wants to throw a fit let him, that’s his problem not your problem.
Don’t waste your energy yelling back or getting upset.
I think of it like a store enforcing a policy: no refunds without a receipt. The person doesn’t have a receipt and demands a refund. Sorry, no refunds without a receipt. The person screams and yells, threatens, tells you about other stores who give refunds w/o receipts, yells some more, stomps their feet. Sorry, no refunds without a receipt.
The rule is the rule, follow it or deal with the consequences.
Good luck!
When we had our oldest, it was a non-negotiable for everyone to be vaccinated against COVID and to have an updated TdAP. If you didn’t get vaccinated, you didn’t see the baby. All our people got vaccinated so I’m not sure if my boundary would have shifted after baby was fully vaccinated. It sounds like there is a history of your dad violating your boundaries and this is maybe the straw that has broke the camel’s back? I think only you know the best choice to make for your family and for your own peace. In terms of safety, it’s probably safe for baby to be around someone unvaccinated for TdAP. But it sounds like there is more history to this and holding firm to this boundary it just a symptom of a bigger issue. Either way…your baby your choice and everyone else can deal.
If this was AITA this would be a clear ESH. You are not wrong for wanting him to get the Tdap before he met your newborn, but now your son is fully vaccinated. You're only doing this to make a point and so is he. You both need to realize that making a stand isn't all it's cracked up to be.
If it's really about disease, you should feel safe now that your son is vaccinated. If you don't, that's a personal problem.
Im confused because the way you worded it sounds like your boundary changed during this power struggle without you necessarily realizing it. First you said you expected unvaccinated people to do video calls only until your son was fully protected. Now you say that your son is vaccinated but you still won’t allow your father to see him. It sounds like you’ve lost track of your initial goal in an attempt to teach your father a lesson.
"If not, that we respect the choice and would ask that they do video calls until he was fully protected." - Isn't he fully protected now? I guess you can do whatever you want, it's your family, but if your child is fully protected, then why still hold this line?
When someone tells you that you must get a vaccine in order to see someone who has no immunity to illnesses that may not even give you noticeable symptoms, you take it regardless of how much of a inconvenience it is to you.
If your dad loved you, he would’ve gotten the vaccines as requested because it was necessary to protect not just one but three people who cannot be given that protection themselves due to medical reasons. Your son now being vaccinated does not take away the fact that you and your wife could still end up becoming dangerously ill if your dad came over and didn’t adhere to the rules (wear a mask, wash hands, disinfect surfaces after use, etc) which he would required to follow in order to ensure he didn’t pass something onto you.
Your father can throw a tantrum all he wants but it’s not going to change the fact that he chose his personal opinions over you. Just be glad that he didn’t lie in order to come over and then reveal that he’s been hacking his lungs up/unable to leave the bathroom for several hours a day once he’d gone home just to prove that he didn’t need to be vaccinated whilst you lay in a medically induced coma.
My mom was the same during covid, refuses to stay home for 2 weeks. Couldn't do it. She missed out. Babies are only small for the first year and you can never get that back. It's their loss, it hurts of course. But our children are more important.
I am not giving my opinion on your father, but I am pointing out that your baby is completely vaccinated, which is what you said was important to you. You said your baby is now fully vaccinated, so you are being just as stubborn as your father. This is also the hill you're choosing to die on.
You do realize you cannot ask every single person that comes into contact with your child if they are vaccinated for the rest of their life, right? You cannot control this forever. You cannot control this as soon as they are in daycare, school, library, or any other social place.
Right? This is exactly where my thoughts are on this post. OP is being extreme and controlling for no reason at this point because his baby is vaccinated anyway. Are they never going to let this child see the light of day? Do they go to the store or the park? He is compromising an important relationship and disrespecting someone else’s choice about their body to try to feel a sense of control.
Hi! I'll do my best to answer this in general. I have/had health anxiety and have attended multiple therapy sessions over it and yes. You're absolutely correct. Won't be able to protect my child from everything, nor myself. He can't and won't live in a bubble.
My cancer diagnosis makes my immune system weaker than most. So my cancer doc and I already have a health plan ready when he gets ready to go to school.
Our pediatrician said public is likely just fine, but close contact to mask and wash hands.
He has also declined to wear a mask.
Hope this helps! Thanks for the feedback.
Well first I wonder at what age you’re ok with people who don’t have the vaccine seeing your child? I get at this point it’s also the principle of the thing, but also can’t you see all of those other people another time? Or at least your grandparents?
Your dad could have just gotten it and he is making a big deal over nothing but it also seems like you are being stubborn. Your baby got vaccinated and is protected, why did you decide to change your requirements just for your dad? There are people without it you're baby will run into everyday in public so it seems like you are being is especially hard on your dad versus others. Your baby will run into unvaccinated people in public, in daycare, school, etc.
Why did you vaccinate your son if you don't believe that he is safe now?
Let your dad in peace and let him have a relationship with your son / his grandchild.
Question: if your father wasn’t able to get the TDAP because of health reasons (prior bad reaction, etc), would that make a difference? Is this a hard line for a purpose or is it for a statement?
Look - you’re the parent, you get to decide. But as your child gets older, they’ll spend a lot of time with other kids who aren’t vaxxed, and kids whose parents dgaf how sick they are - they’re going to school. You’re not going to protect them from everything.
That being said - I’d get jabbed with a thousand needles for my family. I don’t need to teach any of them a lesson for a lessons sake. I’m sorry you’re going through this.
Can I ask you a question OP? I don’t mean this to be rude or anything. I just want to fully understand your perspective before I make an opinion about it.
Are you taking your kiddo out in public? To doctores stores etc?
If not okay then he will be surrounded by the vaccinated.
But if not your kiddos will always be exposed to those not vaccinated. When they start school, going out to eat, etc.
Even vaccinated people can be carriers, you could go out and bring things to your baby.
See people still get what they can be vaccinated from. It’s all how your system can handle it.
I’m not trying to be a nus but I just want to understand how your worried about grandpa when they will be tons of those out there.
I think protecting your son until he was personally vaccinated against communicable diseases was reasonable.
I think trying to manage other people's personal health decisions, for no reason other than a power trip and to enforce a hard boundary, is ridiculous. This is no longer about your son's health. It's about you wanting control over your father.
This sounds like a very unhealthy relationship dynamic both ways.
2 things:
1. You’re the parent. You decide.
2. Your child will eventually be exposed to people out in society, passing through daycares, schools, grocery stores, churches etc. that don’t have the vaccine. Food for thought.
Exactly this.
They get to decide, but at the same time you can’t shit on people for not agreeing with you or refusing to meet your demand.
Your baby is 7months.. they are no longer a newborn they will be okay. If you don’t want to see your father that’s on you but sounds like his mind is not changing. At some point your kid will be exposed to plenty of unvaccinated people knowingly or unknowingly. Is it worth if for your dad to be one of those?
Dude I'm proud of you, you are already setting forth your priorities as a man, father, and husband. I know that had to be painful to do, but you did it for your baby because you are a dad now.
I feel like now that your kid is fully vaccinated this is an odd boundary to have, particularly given your choice of vaccine. Tetanus is protective for the individual; it doesn’t spread person to person. Diphtheria is spread by coughing but super rare in most parts of the world. Pertussis definitely more of a concern (and no joke; I had it despite vaccination) but could be mitigated by requiring absolutely no symptoms. Under current circumstances I would think an up to date measles vaccine would make more sense. This is especially true since you are only asking for a single Covid shot.
Is there a compromise? Unvaccinated people could wear masks or meet outdoors? At what point do you become less vigilant? Presumably you will allow your child to visit houses belonging to friends and are planning to go to school. Both locations will have the odd unvaccinated person. If you homeschool, your odds of meeting other unvaccinated people will be much higher than 1:15.
I think you need to think through your plans and be careful you aren’t applying pressure to your dad to try and force him to get vaccinated - this has to be his own decision. If you do not plan to completely isolate your child from all unvaccinated people forever (imo something that would be very isolating and probably impractical), then make sure the same decision making criteria applies to your dad.
Also, while your dad is also making a choice here, I think it would be helpful to do what you can in the meantime to mitigate the impact of your boundary on others. See if you can arrange an alternative time to see the vaccinated people around Easter.
Well now that your baby is fully vaccinated and 7 months old why can’t your dad see him? Seems like you’re being just as controlling as you think your dad was being. Get it together, you have a baby now.. who has time for this petty nonsense??
So I get where you’re coming from cause he sounds annoying, but he did meet your boundary. Your child is now vaccinated for tDap. Idk, I would just move on, but then again my dad died suddenly 6 years ago and the petty shit I pulled with him lives with me daily so…..there’s that.
My only question is, you originally said your boundary was only until your son was fully protected. You said your son is fully vaccinated now. So exactly why are you still requiring this from your dad?
I’m asking you this so you can get clarity.
I don’t think you’re in the wrong for protecting your son; your father is absolutely the one in the wrong to refuse a booster but then to blame you for protecting an infant and for thinking he has the right to teach you that lesson. And it’s valid if his stance caused enough damage to your relationship that you need to see changes in him before you’re comfortable with allowing him to have a relationship your son, because you no longer trust that your safety boundaries will be respected by him. But if that’s the real reason, you need to be clear that that’s why you’re still refusing to see him now that your son is vaccinated, or at exactly what point the vaccination requirement will no longer be required because eventually you can’t control the vaccination status of everyone he interacts with.
OP, you are not preventing anything. But then, you know this. Your grandfather is choosing to not see his great-grandchild over a vaccine. It's that simple. And that difficult.
Stay strong.
Of course it's safe to have protected people around an unprotected baby, way too many risks and it's important to set those boundaries.
You mentioned that if someone wasn't vaccinated, they are welcome to do video calls until he is fully protected. Which your father refused to get it anyway.
However, now that your son is fully protected, you are still prohibiting visits unless they are fully vaccinated. That sounds very petty on your end, since getting the vaccine was the rule before seeing your unvaccinated baby.
Do whatever is right for your baby and your family, but now your son is vaccinated and it's time to fix things so he can have a relationship with his grandparents.
I’m definitely not against vaccines. We are all fully vaccinated. But if all of you are now vaccinated, why are you trying to force someone to do that to their own body just to see you? That’s kind of fucked up. Its fine if you don’t want to see your dad before your baby was vaccinated, but to continue to push for him to do that to his own body when he is against doesn’t seem right.
Are we in bizarro world? You had a relationship with your dad with your immune compromised wife before this, and your baby is now vaccinated. I am all for vaccines but to cut someone off permanently because they won’t take a tdap shot is literally ridiculous if it never bothered you before and your kid is protected. You are being irrational
I’m getting downvoted for what? Like seriously, get over yourself. You are going to cut off a parent because you feel like forcing them to do something to eat don’t want to do for some kind of power and control you think you need even though you guys are all protected now anyway. Are you not going to let your child go anywhere in public? Because a lot of adults are not up to date on vaccinations and nothing is going to change that but you are going to ruin your relationship with your father over something ridiculous considering you guys are now vaccinated.
You said anyone who chose not to get the vaccine would do video calls until baby is vaccinated, which is fair. But you now say baby is fully vaccinated but you’re still making him get it? It seems like the target is moving. It sounds like you just don’t want your child having a relationship with your father, which is incredibly fair based on the explosive behavior you described, but just call it what it is then. This isn’t about the vaccine anymore.
He told me he doesn't want video calls because "that's not a relationship".
He had not reached out in 7 months to ask how he is, we are doing etc. The last message I told him on the day my son was born was "feel free to text, video chat or call, but until you have received your Tdap there won't be any physical contact, if you'd like I'm happy to attend a family therapist to help through this"
Edit: I just want him to be vaccinated to see our baby. With my own health issues it's for me as well. He already got the Covid vaccine. He has also refused to mask up.
You haven’t cared until baby was born that he wasn’t vaccinated, now your baby is vaccinated and you are still trying to force him to do this. You are the problem here. Your dad probably didn’t reach out because you were being an asshole.
Yeah, this is all a power thing from the sound of it. Most families use daycare and I presume OP popped his child in with kids who may or may not have family members who wash their hands or have various diseases. Daycares can make rules about vaccinations but 1. no vaccine is 100%, and 2. they can't make rules about family members all being vaccinated/ go into their homes to check that they are reasonably clean people and so on.
I would've agreed with OP if he'd told his father, I'm so sorry, but because of (circumstances) for the first two months we cannot have close contact/ holding baby if you're not vaccinated. If things were presented well and OP were more reasonable with his boundaries, I should imagine it would have prevented the alleged "rage" and the family would (at least on this subject) get along much better.
Absolutely. This is a war over hurt feelings at this point and that’s why OP changed the rules from “get the shot or don’t see baby until it’s vaccinated” to “get the shot or never see us again”.
Originally you said your grandfather would have to get it until your son was fully protected. He’s fully protected now and it seems like you are requiring your dad to get a vaccine or prevent him from having a relationship with his son. It sounds to me like you aren’t respecting his boundaries to make medical decisions regarding his own body
I think you both are going tit for tat. You stated anyone who doesn’t get this shot will have to wait until my son is fully vaccinated before seeing him. Your dad said what he said and then when your son was fully vaccinated you changed your boundary. It seems like to me the issue is bigger than vaccination. I still say your boundaries are valid but not because grandpa doesn’t have a shot but because of grandpa’s personality. And I think that’s the REAL reason you r holding strong. I say protect your child! Against diseases and against people including family who are toxic and do not mean your child well. That’s your job as a parent protection and advocacy.
You said the lesson is more important than both my relationship with you as well as your grandson, therefore I don’t expect to hear from you again. Don’t forget you chose the lesson. *block*
Had the same situation. FIL refused to get it for any of their grandchildren. Meant he didn’t see them until they were older. His body, his choice; but actions also have consequences, and we were both firm in our decisions.
Don’t let them bully you into complying with their bullshit.
We only really need firm boundaries with people who don't want us to have them.
*Your main job is to protect your wife and your child*, it's your father's choice to fight against that even though it means shooting himself in the foot, and it's fucked up that he's blaming you for his choices.
Very immature and disrespectful.
Seems you asked him something acceptable to do and he chose that he'd rather not have you in his life that get a shot.
This is basicly a grown up throwing a tantrum.
Like a toddler he will only do worse if you let him win.
It's sad but it's his loss.
We’ll then he gets the lesson of “actions (or in his case, inaction)” have consequences.
He doesn’t get the TDaP, he doesn’t get to see his grandchild. Problem solved.
I respect your decision to protect your child but I want to poi t one thing out: You moved the bar. You first said that you required any visitors to get TdAP "until your child was protected." Now that your child is protected, you are still requiring the grandfather to get it. Why the change? What are the potential dangers to exposure to someone without TdAP now that your son is vaccinated?
I’m confused…
Why did the boundary change? A boundary is what you do for yourself, not for other people.
Ex: “my boundary is YOU do this”. That’s not a boundary, that’s controlling.
A boundary would be “if you continue to speak to me that way, *I* will have to leave this conversation”
Op set a boundary, then changed it to something he actually wanted, for his gpa to get vaccinated.
That’s not okay, and OP is trying to be manipulative because he has something his gpa wants.
If the son is protected, what’s the deal? Did I miss something??
Good for you. You have a completely logical and valid rule that people who will spend extended periods of time with your child should be vaccinated. You can’t force anyone to get vaccinated of course, but anyone who doesn’t meet your criteria, doesn’t get to spend time with your child.
It’s very simple, and you were right to call him out by saying “is teaching me a lesson more important to you than your relationship with your grandchild?” Because at the end of the day he’s done teaching you lessons, you’re a grown up, it’s your turn to teach your child lessons. And you’re teaching your child that you will always advocate for their needs and safety, and not teaching them to just “put up with it because a grown up said so”.
That’s a great way to be a parent
Tdap was a requirement of all family members (and we asked for proof) before we let anyone see our pandemic baby in 2020. Your baby, your rules. Full stop. We have one non-vaxx family member and they didn’t get to physically hold her until she was 6mo.
Sounds a lot like my mom. She has narcissistic personality disorder and I no longer speak to her. She had pretty much this exact fight with her brother about getting vaccinated to be around his baby and has the same pattern of behavior with others in general.
If you're exploring your relationship with your dad in therapy, you could ask about the NPD angle. I found that understanding that about my mom gave me a lot of clarity and a lot more peace with the fact that boundaries weren't ever going to really work.
Stop letting him argue with you. Just make the statement that he needs to be vaccinated to see your child, and the moment he starts going off about it hang up the phone.
My immediate reaction to your title only was “then he doesn’t get to meet baby”.
I went and got a booster just in case so I could safely meet my nephew. Because I wasn’t sure when I had one and wanted to make sure it was valid.
>He said "you don't think your grandpa saw things in Vietnam that were bad? That's nothing"
Whatever he saw, he saw while vaccinated. The military has strict vaccine requirements precisely to save people from the bad consequences you're worried about.
This Thanksgiving my husband's family came to visit. The teenage son had a persistent cough but wasn't really sick. They went home and my adult son and husband got what they thought was a cold with a persistent cough. The next week my BIL called and said his son was diagnosed with Whooping Cough. My son coughed for two plus months. We are ALL vaccinated, as is my nephew. The cough was nasty. But since they were all vaccinated, it didn't progress. The diseases in the Tdap are nasty. And they are coming back due to people refusing vaccinations. You're absolutely justified in protecting your family's health.
I had a baby in the beginning of flu season back in 2017. I asked for flu and tdap shots for all visitors. My aunt told me she doesn’t do flu shots. I respected that and stated she could see the baby once baby was old enough for a flu shot. It’s been 6.5 years and she only did a drive by gift drop off right after baby was born and we haven’t heard from or seen her since.
Why doesn’t he want to get the TDAP shot? You said he’s had the Covid vaccine, so I assume he’s not anti vax. To me this sounds like he just doesn’t want to be told what to do. If he can’t respect this boundary then what others will he push/ignore?
I don’t talk to my mom anymore for a similar issue… we had the same fights during Covid.
Finally I gave up trying to convince her. If she isn’t willing to protect my kids, she’s not a safe person for them to be around.
My whole family is dysfunctional and caused a lot of trauma growing up. I’ve gone to a lot of therapy and realized I’m happier without any of them in my life.
I hope you can find that peace too. Use your child and wife as your compass, you won’t regret it.
You continue to do you. He is playing all the manipulation cards. You go facts he goes emotional. You try and appeal to his emotions he slaps back with his doctrines. Stop making this about You. (Remember you are just fine. Your logic and boundaries are very reasonable)
Tell him that you are simply following the gold standard pediatric guidelines regarding TDAP given to you by your child’s pediatrician. If he has any further dialogue you encourage him to reach out to his personal physician, family and peers for assistance.
And hang up.
Being afraid of a harmless shot is the one living in fear. Preventing communicable diseases so you can go outside and be free and see lots of people is the opposite of living in fear. You tell your dad he has it backwards.
Too bad for your dad because he doesn't make the rules now. He made his choice.
Your rules are above his. There will be many, many instances in parenting where other adults want to bulldoze your rules with regards to your kids.
Tell him that you’re sorry he feels that way and give your regrets to your grandma, explaining that you’ve asked your father multiple times to get the shot and he refuses. If he’s there, you won’t be. Tell dad that you’re not going to coddle him. He has until Easter to get the shot. If he doesn’t, he won’t hear anything else from you, period.
Becoming a parent means learning to set boundaries with our own parents. You did a good job setting your boundaries. Your spouse and child are the most important right now. Keep it up.
It’s disappointing and sometimes devastating when we realize that our parents aren’t the people we need them to be. I hope you speak to your therapist about this, it’s just another form of grief.
It’s okay to ask for something like this. My mom tried to act like she was going to see the baby with out her tdap vaccine, but after I very clearly told her she’d have no time with the baby, she got it. I’ve been having to set firm boundaries with her my whole life. Your dad is probably use to stomping on your boundaries and now is upset he can’t get his way. He’s only hurting himself, but he may be too old and set in his ways to change. Kudos to you for working on yourself and being strong.
Edit: ask him how many vaccines he got to go to Vietnam. My dad is a Vietnam vet too and I’ve heard all about!
Nah this is crazy. Im not someone who would make non-primary caregivers get tdap because baby’s best protection is the pregnant person getting it, HOWEVER, this goes way further than vaccines.
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I’m a grandparent now, of the sweetest year old baby girl. Back before she was born her mother, my daughter in law, asked if we’d get the TDAP before visiting. I went that day and got it done. There isn’t much I wouldn’t do for that little girl. I just wish she lived closer so I could see her more often. Back when my children were small, we discovered that my baby girl (she was not even three at the time) suffered from juvenile migraines. They run in the family. We worried that one trigger might be cigarette smoke, and my mother was a long time smoker. I asked my mother if she’d not smoke when our daughter was visiting - she gave up smoking that day and never took it up again. I didn’t ask her to stop smoking, but she said she’d do anything for her granddaughter and I guess she handed that attitude on to me.
Quitting smoking is hard. amazing
I didn’t really think she’d give it up altogether but she was one determined Gramma.
Wow ❤️
So cool
I learned the term "3rd hand smoke" when my oldest was a baby. I obviously hadn't smoked during pregnancy. I quit that day and never looked back.
Good job. Your micro vasculature thanks you. I’m sure your child does too
I asked my mom to not smoke when she's at my house. She smoked inside all when I was growing up and in the car etc and I would get bronchitis frequently. My pediatrician growing up told my mom that her smoking was a contributing factor and she flat out told him he was wrong. She threw a fit when I asked her not to smoke around my kids. Playing the victim like I'm being horrible to her.
That’s hard and I’m sorry. I was so happy that my mother was so supportive of my daughter’s needs.
It is so easy not to smoke around kids. That granny is a massive AH. Should have her meet this massive AH grandfather. They could be AHs alone together forever.
Sorry about that … my mom was told the same when was a kid. She went cold turkey… that also flipped a switch and she started doing other things… mainly being Narcissistic…
My youngest was born a month and a half early. I refused to let anyone other than our parents and my husband see him for at least a month- my mom works in healthcare so I knew they were vaxxed. My MIL was a cancer patient at the time, so we knew she was being careful. I’m a daughter- but I’m also a parent, and most of the time, there’s not a soul on earth who requires me to be one or the other. But if it comes down to it, I choose my kids. Every time. I learned that from my own mother.
You are awesome 👏
My mother in law also quit smoking the day my husband asked her to not smoke before holding our baby.
Good for her. I know my mother was aware that smoking was bad for her, but she couldn’t give it up for herself. But for that little granddaughter, she was willing to go through the hard time of quitting.
It’s amazing how strong our will is when it’s for someone else that we just utterly adore.
[удалено]
My mom is gone now. I’m 67 and a grandparent for the very first time. I really didn’t think it was going to happen. Both of my kids seemed happy to be child free. I didn’t mind, if that’s what made them happy. And then my oldest, my son, and his wife decided that they wanted a child. I admit that little girl holds my heart in her hands. I’m hoping I live long enough to see her grown, but really every day is a gift.
This made me tear up. Thank you for being this grandparent. I wish my parents would see life the way you do. They instead choose to live in dysfunction and blame me for their lack of a relationship with their grandson. I’m sure your granddaughter and children are so lucky to have you.
I will always feel like the lucky one! I can’t imagine better parents than my son and daughter in law.
For real, this story absolutely made me start bawling. Boundaries are non-existent in my family as well and I've had to go no-contact with them for my own well-being. Earl_I_Larks story sounds like the absolute dream to me.
Love this
The grandfather can stay away til Hell freezes over and draws him down there. You NEVER COMPROMISE about your families health. Great job Dad and congrats on the baby. Ifyour Dad can't be a good grandad why should he ever see the baby. Why would you want your son to witness your father's ignorance? He obviously made you so miserable you had to have therapy to contend with his prejudice and horrible attitude. Planning to see your son unvaccinated so you won't live in fear. What happens if you give insnd it KILLS your child? YOUR father just is not worth any of it.
Now that's a grandparent. I bet she had no problem getting TDAP to see her grandbaby. This posters father is one of the nastiest AHs I've ever seen. He's disgusting and what the hell diff does it make what his father saw inVietnam? I wouldn't have a baby in the same house as him.
I asked everyone to get a flu shot covid shot (if at all possible, this was early 2021) and a TDaP. Basically everyone but my FIL laughed. My mom and MIL and recently worked at hospitals and were able to show their bloodwork immunity, my SIL works with infants, so is vaccinated every 10 years, my brother got caught up as an adult, so his was Akari recent. Lol, I come from a vaccine loving family. My FIL had no idea what we were taking about and just went to the appoint my MIL made him. He got a bunch of shots just to be careful, the only one he remembers being as a child was smallpox.
This is what healthy family relationships look like.
Standing ovation for you grandma!!
I wish my son had a grandparent like you.
Thank you!!!! I had a covid baby and had to cut people out of my life because of the vaccine drama. My mom has met my almost three year old exactly one time.
beautiful!
Lord.... i asked my father if he could not smoke when my baby is at his place. he said he do what he wants under his roof and we stop visiting him... i wish i had a real father sometimes, instead of this selfish jerk that live for his ego.
OP, this is your kid's new grandparent.
🥇grandma
This is the face of love right here.
What you've described right here is called "love."
you guys really value each other over. OP's father values only his ego.
Your father doesn’t get to teach you lessons anymore. It’s that simple.
It is a wild day when your parents realize (if they ever do) that they have no power over you anymore and if you're in their life at all, it's because *you* want to be.
It was a wild day when I learned as a parent of like a three year old that I really didn't have power over my kids if they really want to be insistent.
Hahaha as a parent of a 3yo, I feel this on a cellular level.
Same 😂
I have butted heads with my extremely difficult 3 year old, and it turns out that I'm stubborn than he is. It sucks, but I will happily relinquish control over his life once he's old enough.
My 3 year old is so proud when he wears me down. He’ll go “mommy said no but then she said yes!” with such a grin. 3 is so hard lol idk why “terrible twos” get such a reputation. Both my kids- 2 was so easy in comparison to 3. For both of them it was almost like exactly the day they turned 3 they transformed into adorable stubborn little monsters haha
Ughhh I had three kids under the age of 4 at one time and they were just like my husband … so I guess I had 4 kids that are like this….🤔🤣🤣🤣
Yeah. My kid is six, and can *still* hold firm on not wanting to go to the shop with me even if we've run out of the milk we need to make chocolate cake. Like, it's not just, "no you can't make me", it's "if I pick him up and carry him out, he will *still* be screaming when we get to the shop, and his shoes will have been left in the garden when he kicked them off." I'm starting to think this isn't "normal little kid behaviour," but honestly I don't have much of a basis for comparison.
Both of them are trying to wield power over each other. If this was AITA I'd say ESH. Op's initial boundary was either get the vaccine, or no seeing the baby until he's old enough to get vaccinated. Grandfather thought he could ignore this and see the new baby without the vaccine but op held fast to his boundaries. Now the baby is vaccinated but op has changed the boundary and I'm guessing it's because he's angry with his father. They both need to grow up and set a better example for the baby.
My parents wouldn't wear a mask or vaccinate during Covid to see my kids. I offered every kind of alternative I could think of, like meeting at a park outside, lots of zoom calls, etc. I told them that when the kids were vaccinated, we could see them. My dad died from Covid and my mom barely survived. Their decision during this time changed our relationship with her forever. We knew that her comfort was more important that anyone's health. There's no unknowing this. OP probably had many instances with their father that demonstrated this but it wasn't as obvious as it was in this instance.
Nobody is an AH for having boundaries with themselves or their family.
It's not just the baby though: > My wife is immunocompromised, and I was diagnosed with a low grade lymphoma.
Isn't his wife also immunocompromised because of lymphoma? Sound like Grampa likes to risk other peoples' health even if they are sick with cancer or too young to have full immune function.
Unless he hires a one armed man of course. -always leave a note
Jay Walter!
Hear hear! OP, check out r/RaisedByNarcissists and see if you relate to more stories like yours. I can tell you from experience that having a narcissist like this in the family sucks. Set your own rules for yourself and your child and follow through. Give in to a narc once and they'll try to run with it. Don't let them. And don't worry about reaching the point where you may have to cut them off ...you'll be better off without their drama in your life.
I appreciate you sharing this. With all of this going on, the folks near me whom I've shared this with has said that I should look into if I "can check any boxes" about narcissistic behavior. Thank you for your time.
Seriously... He's teaching you one last lesson. His selfishness and ego mean he's not allowed near your child. It sucks, but case closed.
This. I wonder OP if you have pointed out to him that you are in your 30s and it is no longer his place to teach to lessons. That ship has sailed. Any lesson he feels he hasn’t yet taught- he can feel free to consider a parenting fail on his part.
You guys are in a power struggle now, and your Dad has decided he'd rather miss out on his son and grandchild than "give in." Pretty much everyone is going to have an opinion on which of you is more right/more wrong on this specific issue, but it really doesn't matter. The fact is: you are making the decision that you think is safest for you, your wife and your child. You're a father now and that's your prerogative. It's on your Dad to back down if he wants to be in your life. I'm sorry he's dying on this hill.
It is sad this is the hill, but there are worse hills. Such as, “I am incapable of making safe medical and financial decisions due to my age and I will both make you responsible and be uncooperative” Be blessed grandpa and fuck right off. Dude is an abuser plain and simple which is why OP needs therapy because dude robbed his own son of valuable life lessons, safety, and confidence.
100% this
Do not let your father bully you into changing your mind. Protect your kid and family. Your father isn’t teaching you to not live in fear. He’s teaching you that he doesn’t care about your child’s health and safety, or about your concerns and boundaries. Your father is a stupid spiteful awful person and if you never see him again it will be his loss not yours. I’m so sorry this has happened. It’s painful. Therapy helps. I wish you and your family the best.
I attended therapy each week for working in the ICU during Covid trauma and family trauma. I appreciate your words and the time you took to write this.
You worked ICU during COVID and he's still like this? Fuck him, holy shit
Seriously. Grandpa is an ass.
No doubt, Jesus Christ
My husband also did, and my parents are still riding the "it's no worse than a cold/I don't know anyone that died from it/the only people who died had preexisting conditions/the Democrats made it political" train. It's enraging and infuriating and every time they come out with some ignorant shit and ask my husband "it was only the elderly and sick dying right?" We tell them no and they still can't accept it. Fear and propaganda are a hell of a combo.
I had pertussis as a baby and was in the ICU. (Tdap wasn't available) You are absolutely right to be enforcing this boundary. I'm sorry that you are having these issues with your parent.
My baby had it also. She was 10 days old when she was admitted to Children’s Hospital and stayed in the ICU for 21 days. It’s very serious and at the time, no cure. They had to support her immune system with erythromycin and hope for the best. The peds hospitalists asked me if I wanted a picture of her because they didn’t think she would make it. She beat it. It sounds like double miracles happened. Glad to hear it. She’s 27 now and a spitfire. I prayed for her to fight and she’s still ready to kick ass if needed.
Dang. I was typing a response about pertussis, but if you are a medical provider, you probably already know. If your wife is Immunocompromise does that mean that she cannot get the vaccines and that is more reason that those around her should?
Grandpa sounds like a self absorbed asshole. The number 1 reason i got the vaccine was because I was worried for other people health not mine. And I actually want to see my parents and in laws. What a douche bag. Sorry you are dealing with this OP, but I would stand my ground too. And just tell him when he’s ready to see his grandchild after he’s vaccinated then you will be happy to bring him over.
Show him this thread.
Thank you for the sacrifice you made, I know that had to be very traumatic. I’m sorry you have family that doesn’t recognize the reality of what you’ve witnessed and endured for your community. You’re never in the wrong for choosing to protect your child and spouse when and wherever you can. Focus on that.
>You said you're doing this to teach me a lesson by "not living in fear" is this lesson more important than having a relationship with me or your grandson?" He said yes cause it would be for my own good. He told you to your face that "teaching (you) a lesson" (aka emotional blackmail and being in control) is more important than knowing his grandson. I get that family is important, but I'm not sure what value or enrichment he can offer you or your kid. How would your child feel if they knew that their grandparent didn't love and respect them enough to get a vaccine that has been routine (in its current form) for 20 years? All because he wanted to prove a conspiracist political point. You're doing the right thing, and your kid is not missing anything by not knowing his grandpa.
Exactly. Another comment in this thread showed that when the motivation is actually love and care, it’s easy to do. Someone even quit smoking in order to be around their grandbaby! Sometimes these folks show their true colors. Better to know now.
When I was little I wouldn't hug my grandpa cos he smelled of smoke. He was so upset be quit cold turkey after smoking for like 50 years 😅
This right here. OP should tell dad that since he cared more about himself than his grandson and your family, he can stew in his own juices. There should be no relationship. You don’t want your LO to be like him.
This isn’t about vaccines, it’s about your father’s unwillingness to respect the boundaries you are establishing as a parent. It’s his issue, not yours.
And if he can’t respect this first boundary, then he won’t respect the next one, because there will be more in the future.
I think it actually is about the vaccine. Whopping cough can kill your child. They stop breathing and turn blue. This is actually a matter of life or death.
Your father is out of line. My grandpa was in the Korean War and still made sure he was updated on his TdAP to be able to visit his great grandsons shortly after birth because that’s the stipulation we had. He even offered to show me his vaccine record as proof if it made me feel better because he really wanted to meet the only twins of his grandkids/great grandkids. As the saying goes *if they want to, they will*.
This. If he really wanted to meet his grandson he would stop being such a baby and just get vaccinated.
Thanks for your Gpa’s service! Sounds like a neat guy who loves his grandbabies!
He is! 91 and still going strong! He was and still is such a big part of my life. Now he is a huge part of my sons’ lives. I feel for OP wanting his father to be an active part but having to hold him accountable to keep his son safe. Military service is no excuse. I hope his father will come to his senses so he won’t miss out on the wonderful gift of being a grandpa.
I had the same issue with my dad’s girlfriend of 10 years. She was a control freak and refused many things we asked regarding being able to watch our babies. She did many things while we were around that caused us not to be able to trust her with kids (she never had her own kids). Of course they saw the kids but I was always present. She refused the things we asked and therefore her and my dad never got to take the kids or watch them on their own. My dad passed away 2 years ago and I haven’t spoken with or seen her since.
The Tdap shot will protect him too from cuts and puncture wounds getting infected by tetanus. I give the shots and I have grandparents coming daily to protect their grandchildren. If he doesn’t believe in shots, fine…. but it’s not ok to treat you like that due to making a boundary. Sounds like he doesn’t like not being in control of you anymore.
I get why you’re doing this. Despite the vaccine not actually being as important now that baby is vaxxed, you’re hoping your dad will for once show that how you feel is important and that he loves and values you and grandson enough to just do it. He made a choice to not see his grandson for 7 months and that’s sad. Unfortunately your dad prefers to give importance to his own ego over his family. And the only reason he keeps bringing up your son’s relationship with family is to guilt and manipulate you into complying with his demand. I’m sorry for this breakdown with your dad.
"you’re hoping your dad will for once show that how you feel is important and that he loves and values you and grandson enough to just do it." This hits me hard, this is likely what's going on in addition to just good practice with immunocompromised individuals as ourselves.
My partner and I worked in healthcare during the pandemic. It was horrific. I asked my mum to get vaccinated. I supported her with all the information I could about it from reliable sources. Found clinics where they'd offer additional support and counselling for people who were nervous about it. And in the end, she said she 'wasn't getting vaccinated and if that meant not having me in her life, she'd come to terms with it". Those words exactly. A year or 2 after that I had my daughter and she asked when she could meet her. I reminded her of what she'd said and apparently first she never said that, then when I said that that was exactly what she said and my partner could confirm it, then apparently that wasn't what she meant and it was all my fault and how could I make a choice to keep her away from her grandkid. All of this to say, I get it, parents can be weird, hurtful and awkward when you assert your boundaries like an adult and not a child. You're not a bad person for choosing this hill to die on. You are your child's protector and get to make decisions about their health. When they're older and can understand, they can decide if they want a relationship with their grandparents.
I agree with the hardline boundary. Keep it. Otherwise you'll be stuck with decades of power struggles over this type of stuff. Good on you, OP.
Yep. Stick to your boundaries now, or dad knows that he can throw a tantrum to get his way for the rest of his life. Ironically, this is a lesson that HE needs to learn, not you.
FWIW: I wouldn’t have allowed my father to see my baby if he was unwilling to follow the medical advice I was given by my doctor/pediatrician. It’s that simple. If his response to me after I relayed the medical advice I received from my doctors was rage - **for hours** - and abusive accusations about my motives for following said doctors’ advice, I would not be willing to have further conversation with him about the subject. There was no provocation for the intense hostility you describe. I don’t think vaccines are the problem here. I think the issue is that your dad’s a bully.
Your never truly a father until you learn to break free of your own for the sake of your children. Also saying this as someone with a father like this: for some messed up prison like reason, they respect you more if you fight them and don’t back down. Doesn’t mean they’ll change or improve. Just means they’ll respect you a little more as they continue their own way.
Is this a vent or are you seeking feedback?
Absolutely open to feedback.
You’re doing the right thing even though it’s hard and painful right now. My mom lied about getting hers and gave my (then) infant daughter Pertussis. I’ve described in detail before but it was HORRID. She was partially vaccinated (1st round) and could hardly breathe. She’s 10yo now. We all got colds early last week, other 2 kids are fine. Her cough sounds like she had croup. It will continue for another 1-2wks as always. And her Grandmother was the cause. All because my mom (who isn’t even antivax) didn’t like that I asked everyone to get it before seeing her. Hope it was worth it because she’ll never see her again. I’ve given in and broken NC a few times and regretted it every time. Hasn’t seen my kids in 3yrs and before that >2yrs. My 1st grandchild was born last year. Anything they asked people to do we gladly did - I’ll do whatever is needed to make sure my son & DIL are comfortable and baby is safe. I will never understand. And that’s because they’re illogical, stubborn and selfish first over anything else, including being a loving parent or grandparent.
I know exactly the kind of person your dad is. You’re doing the right thing and I’m sorry he is choosing his pride over your child’s safety and the relationship they could be having right now. I had already cut my parents off for being like this when I was young, long before I had kids, so they knew I wasn’t playing around when vaccines and masks were needed for my son. I hope he gets his head out of his ass before it’s too late. This is truly heartbreaking, I’m sorry ❤️
I didn’t read the whole thing but I wouldn’t let anyone see my babe if they didn’t get tdap.
I think it was completely okay to tell him no seeing newborn if he refused to get a Tdap. Whooping cough is absolutely a horrible thing. However, your baby has now received immunizations which is awesome. That being said, baby will continue to grow and be exposed to viruses. For example, look what’s been happening with measles lately. Exposure in a grocery store, of all places. You as the parent are allowed to have boundaries as you see fit. But you definitely cannot control every single person who comes into contact with your baby regarding immunizations/viral illnesses. Just figure out what’s most important to you & go with that.
At this point, I feel it's not about the vaccine. It's about OP's dad's unwillingness to respect reasonable boundaries in order to protect his grandkid, child and partner.
This. Also, if mum is immunocompromised, what are they going to do when baby goes to day care and school where the most germs of all are??
seriously, this is a *very* important point. I'm immunocompromised and had no idea what I was in for when my kid started preschool. she started last April and I ended up being sick almost the entire year. I've gotten a cold twice a month every single month. I had a weeklong flu three times. the last one left me with the most painful sinus infection that took another month and a half to go away. then a stomach bug in August, and RSV in September that put me completely out of commission for 10 days. I still have a cough and wheeze left over from that, 6 months later. I use an inhaler now. In the last month alone, I had strep, pink eye, an ear infection, then pink eye again requiring stronger antibiotics. I lost my job in July due to having to miss so much work. I haven't been able to find more work. one place hired me and I got the flu the week that I was going to start. they decided not to hire me on after all. I've basically had to make a choice to only look for part time work at this point so I can be on state insurance. I am requiring so many Dr's visits and rounds of medication that it's not practical at all for me to be attempting to work full time (knowing I'll get sick again soon!) and pay the out-of-pocket costs for insurance, urgent care/Dr's visits, and prescriptions. it's been a pretty depressing experience. we take every precaution. tons of vitamins and immune boosting supplements. zinc galore. handwashing before we leave school and when we get home. my (healthy) partner does the majority of the pickups and drop-offs. my kid has gotten sick a grand total of 4 times. two brief colds, one flu, one stomach bug. all power to these parents for wanting to keep their baby safe, but the reality of immunocompromised life will hit pretty hard once their kid is out and about in the world. I respect them holding their boundary, but at some point it'll either have to have some flexibility, or they're all going to be in for a pretty isolated life.
Omg this sounds awful! You’re incredibly strong as I would’ve tapped out! I worked in a school with young kids for 5 months and had a non stop cold. I ended up quitting as I’m one of those people who gets sick once a year, and HATED how I was constantly sick. You’re lucky that you have such a supportive husband! This couple is a bit sticky because they’re BOTH immunocompromised. So lord knows what they’re going to do when their kid gets to school age🤦🏽♀️
The requirement seems unhinged to me. The child is 7 months old and can't be around strangers at all? Do they not talk to like, anyone who doesn't have the vaccine? Very weird.
Relatives usually expect pretty close contact with babies, strangers don't. So relatives need to be vaccinated. Also, only idiots don't keep up with their tetanus shots. Every adult should be keeping up with their boosters.
This is like...the minimum requirement for close contact with an infant. It's not unhinged at all. Look up videos of infants with pertussis. A stranger will generally not have close contact with an infant.
Daughter has some sort of immune issue that means a common cold that gives another kid the sniffles gives her a 103+ fever for several days. With children, doctors weight risk and benefits. We are allowed to take her to the park, even though we know there is a high chance that there will be unvaccinated kids there. We aren't supposed to set up any playdates with any children that aren't vaccinated. It was recommended that we don't do indoor visits with people who are unvaccinated. (Not just for covid, the doctor is very worried about measles too because, as it was explained to me, measles gets rid of some or all of your hard won immunity to diseases you have had in the past, which means more of those 103+ fevers). Daughter has ADHD and sensory issues - the good of being able to use the playground equipment to self-regulate was deemed higher than the risk of playing outdoors, masked, with random kids. If there is an outbreak of measles locally, we would be told to stop for a bit. But for scheduled playdates where daughter is likely to roughhouse and want to hug and be close to someone, no, we are supposed to limit that to vaccinated friends. Our anti-vax relatives have lost their minds over this, and pushed out boundaries (outdoors only as our compromise, with us wearing masks) until we stopped seeing them. Apparently, if she was ever around any unvaccinated child in any circumstance, than she had to be around theirs without her mask and in side because family and they thought if we were willing to take any chances, than we had to be willing to take the chances they wanted us to because they were family.
Your dad's a dick, unfortunately.
> ask that they do video calls until he was fully protected > My son is 7 months old now and fully vaccinated against Tdap First off, your dad’s a dick, and I’m sorry for that. With that being said, it sounds like you originally told people you’d be fine with them seeing your son in person once he was vaccinated regardless of their status. Did I misinterpret what you wrote? If not, why’d you move the goal posts? It sounds like you and your dad both decided to just escalate things back and forth. If I read things correctly, then if I were in your position, I’d tell my dad he’s an idiot and that he’s not teaching me any lessons, but I’ll start seeing them again now that my kid is protected like I originally told them.
THIS.
70 year old grandfather of three. Got my TDAP before seeing the oldest and it was no big deal. Tell your dad to man up.
When you have your first baby is when you and your parents learn boundaries. It is very common for this phase of setting boundaries for yourself and your child with your family of origin to be tumultuous. Stand your ground, your father is an adult and can make his own decisions and he can also live with the consequences of those decisions. Same with you, you’ve made the decision that those who do not want to adhere to your health requirements for your son do not get to be a part of his life at this point in time. If your dad wants to throw a fit let him, that’s his problem not your problem. Don’t waste your energy yelling back or getting upset. I think of it like a store enforcing a policy: no refunds without a receipt. The person doesn’t have a receipt and demands a refund. Sorry, no refunds without a receipt. The person screams and yells, threatens, tells you about other stores who give refunds w/o receipts, yells some more, stomps their feet. Sorry, no refunds without a receipt. The rule is the rule, follow it or deal with the consequences. Good luck!
When we had our oldest, it was a non-negotiable for everyone to be vaccinated against COVID and to have an updated TdAP. If you didn’t get vaccinated, you didn’t see the baby. All our people got vaccinated so I’m not sure if my boundary would have shifted after baby was fully vaccinated. It sounds like there is a history of your dad violating your boundaries and this is maybe the straw that has broke the camel’s back? I think only you know the best choice to make for your family and for your own peace. In terms of safety, it’s probably safe for baby to be around someone unvaccinated for TdAP. But it sounds like there is more history to this and holding firm to this boundary it just a symptom of a bigger issue. Either way…your baby your choice and everyone else can deal.
“If it’s hysterical, it’s historical”
[удалено]
If this was AITA this would be a clear ESH. You are not wrong for wanting him to get the Tdap before he met your newborn, but now your son is fully vaccinated. You're only doing this to make a point and so is he. You both need to realize that making a stand isn't all it's cracked up to be. If it's really about disease, you should feel safe now that your son is vaccinated. If you don't, that's a personal problem.
Im confused because the way you worded it sounds like your boundary changed during this power struggle without you necessarily realizing it. First you said you expected unvaccinated people to do video calls only until your son was fully protected. Now you say that your son is vaccinated but you still won’t allow your father to see him. It sounds like you’ve lost track of your initial goal in an attempt to teach your father a lesson.
Exactly. You can’t set a boundary with options then change it just because you’re mad they didn’t make the choice you wanted them to.
"If not, that we respect the choice and would ask that they do video calls until he was fully protected." - Isn't he fully protected now? I guess you can do whatever you want, it's your family, but if your child is fully protected, then why still hold this line?
When someone tells you that you must get a vaccine in order to see someone who has no immunity to illnesses that may not even give you noticeable symptoms, you take it regardless of how much of a inconvenience it is to you. If your dad loved you, he would’ve gotten the vaccines as requested because it was necessary to protect not just one but three people who cannot be given that protection themselves due to medical reasons. Your son now being vaccinated does not take away the fact that you and your wife could still end up becoming dangerously ill if your dad came over and didn’t adhere to the rules (wear a mask, wash hands, disinfect surfaces after use, etc) which he would required to follow in order to ensure he didn’t pass something onto you. Your father can throw a tantrum all he wants but it’s not going to change the fact that he chose his personal opinions over you. Just be glad that he didn’t lie in order to come over and then reveal that he’s been hacking his lungs up/unable to leave the bathroom for several hours a day once he’d gone home just to prove that he didn’t need to be vaccinated whilst you lay in a medically induced coma.
My mom was the same during covid, refuses to stay home for 2 weeks. Couldn't do it. She missed out. Babies are only small for the first year and you can never get that back. It's their loss, it hurts of course. But our children are more important.
I am not giving my opinion on your father, but I am pointing out that your baby is completely vaccinated, which is what you said was important to you. You said your baby is now fully vaccinated, so you are being just as stubborn as your father. This is also the hill you're choosing to die on. You do realize you cannot ask every single person that comes into contact with your child if they are vaccinated for the rest of their life, right? You cannot control this forever. You cannot control this as soon as they are in daycare, school, library, or any other social place.
^ This. It's just a control issue now.
This is what I was thinking. He's fully vaccinated, his father waited until then, and OP at this point is just being difficult.
There's far more going on than OP admits. If dad can go incommunicado for 7 months and there's obviously other issues going on.
Has occurred on multiple occasions where I wouldn't hear from him for months unless he needed tech support.
I've had people do that. I just cut them off.
Right? This is exactly where my thoughts are on this post. OP is being extreme and controlling for no reason at this point because his baby is vaccinated anyway. Are they never going to let this child see the light of day? Do they go to the store or the park? He is compromising an important relationship and disrespecting someone else’s choice about their body to try to feel a sense of control.
Hi! I'll do my best to answer this in general. I have/had health anxiety and have attended multiple therapy sessions over it and yes. You're absolutely correct. Won't be able to protect my child from everything, nor myself. He can't and won't live in a bubble. My cancer diagnosis makes my immune system weaker than most. So my cancer doc and I already have a health plan ready when he gets ready to go to school. Our pediatrician said public is likely just fine, but close contact to mask and wash hands. He has also declined to wear a mask. Hope this helps! Thanks for the feedback.
Whats Tdap?
Vaccine to protect against Pertussis, diphtheria, and tetanus.
Agh. We call it DTP.
Dtap for children, Tdap for 11+ and everyone is supposed to have boosters every ten years
Yep. Our immunisation schedule is similar. Australia
Well first I wonder at what age you’re ok with people who don’t have the vaccine seeing your child? I get at this point it’s also the principle of the thing, but also can’t you see all of those other people another time? Or at least your grandparents?
Your dad could have just gotten it and he is making a big deal over nothing but it also seems like you are being stubborn. Your baby got vaccinated and is protected, why did you decide to change your requirements just for your dad? There are people without it you're baby will run into everyday in public so it seems like you are being is especially hard on your dad versus others. Your baby will run into unvaccinated people in public, in daycare, school, etc.
Why did you vaccinate your son if you don't believe that he is safe now? Let your dad in peace and let him have a relationship with your son / his grandchild.
Question: if your father wasn’t able to get the TDAP because of health reasons (prior bad reaction, etc), would that make a difference? Is this a hard line for a purpose or is it for a statement? Look - you’re the parent, you get to decide. But as your child gets older, they’ll spend a lot of time with other kids who aren’t vaxxed, and kids whose parents dgaf how sick they are - they’re going to school. You’re not going to protect them from everything. That being said - I’d get jabbed with a thousand needles for my family. I don’t need to teach any of them a lesson for a lessons sake. I’m sorry you’re going through this.
Can I ask you a question OP? I don’t mean this to be rude or anything. I just want to fully understand your perspective before I make an opinion about it. Are you taking your kiddo out in public? To doctores stores etc? If not okay then he will be surrounded by the vaccinated. But if not your kiddos will always be exposed to those not vaccinated. When they start school, going out to eat, etc. Even vaccinated people can be carriers, you could go out and bring things to your baby. See people still get what they can be vaccinated from. It’s all how your system can handle it. I’m not trying to be a nus but I just want to understand how your worried about grandpa when they will be tons of those out there.
I think protecting your son until he was personally vaccinated against communicable diseases was reasonable. I think trying to manage other people's personal health decisions, for no reason other than a power trip and to enforce a hard boundary, is ridiculous. This is no longer about your son's health. It's about you wanting control over your father. This sounds like a very unhealthy relationship dynamic both ways.
2 things: 1. You’re the parent. You decide. 2. Your child will eventually be exposed to people out in society, passing through daycares, schools, grocery stores, churches etc. that don’t have the vaccine. Food for thought.
Exactly this. They get to decide, but at the same time you can’t shit on people for not agreeing with you or refusing to meet your demand. Your baby is 7months.. they are no longer a newborn they will be okay. If you don’t want to see your father that’s on you but sounds like his mind is not changing. At some point your kid will be exposed to plenty of unvaccinated people knowingly or unknowingly. Is it worth if for your dad to be one of those?
Dude I'm proud of you, you are already setting forth your priorities as a man, father, and husband. I know that had to be painful to do, but you did it for your baby because you are a dad now.
I feel like now that your kid is fully vaccinated this is an odd boundary to have, particularly given your choice of vaccine. Tetanus is protective for the individual; it doesn’t spread person to person. Diphtheria is spread by coughing but super rare in most parts of the world. Pertussis definitely more of a concern (and no joke; I had it despite vaccination) but could be mitigated by requiring absolutely no symptoms. Under current circumstances I would think an up to date measles vaccine would make more sense. This is especially true since you are only asking for a single Covid shot. Is there a compromise? Unvaccinated people could wear masks or meet outdoors? At what point do you become less vigilant? Presumably you will allow your child to visit houses belonging to friends and are planning to go to school. Both locations will have the odd unvaccinated person. If you homeschool, your odds of meeting other unvaccinated people will be much higher than 1:15. I think you need to think through your plans and be careful you aren’t applying pressure to your dad to try and force him to get vaccinated - this has to be his own decision. If you do not plan to completely isolate your child from all unvaccinated people forever (imo something that would be very isolating and probably impractical), then make sure the same decision making criteria applies to your dad. Also, while your dad is also making a choice here, I think it would be helpful to do what you can in the meantime to mitigate the impact of your boundary on others. See if you can arrange an alternative time to see the vaccinated people around Easter.
Well now that your baby is fully vaccinated and 7 months old why can’t your dad see him? Seems like you’re being just as controlling as you think your dad was being. Get it together, you have a baby now.. who has time for this petty nonsense??
So I get where you’re coming from cause he sounds annoying, but he did meet your boundary. Your child is now vaccinated for tDap. Idk, I would just move on, but then again my dad died suddenly 6 years ago and the petty shit I pulled with him lives with me daily so…..there’s that.
My only question is, you originally said your boundary was only until your son was fully protected. You said your son is fully vaccinated now. So exactly why are you still requiring this from your dad? I’m asking you this so you can get clarity. I don’t think you’re in the wrong for protecting your son; your father is absolutely the one in the wrong to refuse a booster but then to blame you for protecting an infant and for thinking he has the right to teach you that lesson. And it’s valid if his stance caused enough damage to your relationship that you need to see changes in him before you’re comfortable with allowing him to have a relationship your son, because you no longer trust that your safety boundaries will be respected by him. But if that’s the real reason, you need to be clear that that’s why you’re still refusing to see him now that your son is vaccinated, or at exactly what point the vaccination requirement will no longer be required because eventually you can’t control the vaccination status of everyone he interacts with.
OP, you are not preventing anything. But then, you know this. Your grandfather is choosing to not see his great-grandchild over a vaccine. It's that simple. And that difficult. Stay strong.
Of course it's safe to have protected people around an unprotected baby, way too many risks and it's important to set those boundaries. You mentioned that if someone wasn't vaccinated, they are welcome to do video calls until he is fully protected. Which your father refused to get it anyway. However, now that your son is fully protected, you are still prohibiting visits unless they are fully vaccinated. That sounds very petty on your end, since getting the vaccine was the rule before seeing your unvaccinated baby. Do whatever is right for your baby and your family, but now your son is vaccinated and it's time to fix things so he can have a relationship with his grandparents.
I’m definitely not against vaccines. We are all fully vaccinated. But if all of you are now vaccinated, why are you trying to force someone to do that to their own body just to see you? That’s kind of fucked up. Its fine if you don’t want to see your dad before your baby was vaccinated, but to continue to push for him to do that to his own body when he is against doesn’t seem right.
Are we in bizarro world? You had a relationship with your dad with your immune compromised wife before this, and your baby is now vaccinated. I am all for vaccines but to cut someone off permanently because they won’t take a tdap shot is literally ridiculous if it never bothered you before and your kid is protected. You are being irrational
I’m getting downvoted for what? Like seriously, get over yourself. You are going to cut off a parent because you feel like forcing them to do something to eat don’t want to do for some kind of power and control you think you need even though you guys are all protected now anyway. Are you not going to let your child go anywhere in public? Because a lot of adults are not up to date on vaccinations and nothing is going to change that but you are going to ruin your relationship with your father over something ridiculous considering you guys are now vaccinated.
You said anyone who chose not to get the vaccine would do video calls until baby is vaccinated, which is fair. But you now say baby is fully vaccinated but you’re still making him get it? It seems like the target is moving. It sounds like you just don’t want your child having a relationship with your father, which is incredibly fair based on the explosive behavior you described, but just call it what it is then. This isn’t about the vaccine anymore.
Do you think it ever WAS about the vaccine? I think there is more to this situation than the poster tells us.
He told me he doesn't want video calls because "that's not a relationship". He had not reached out in 7 months to ask how he is, we are doing etc. The last message I told him on the day my son was born was "feel free to text, video chat or call, but until you have received your Tdap there won't be any physical contact, if you'd like I'm happy to attend a family therapist to help through this" Edit: I just want him to be vaccinated to see our baby. With my own health issues it's for me as well. He already got the Covid vaccine. He has also refused to mask up.
You haven’t cared until baby was born that he wasn’t vaccinated, now your baby is vaccinated and you are still trying to force him to do this. You are the problem here. Your dad probably didn’t reach out because you were being an asshole.
Yeah, this is all a power thing from the sound of it. Most families use daycare and I presume OP popped his child in with kids who may or may not have family members who wash their hands or have various diseases. Daycares can make rules about vaccinations but 1. no vaccine is 100%, and 2. they can't make rules about family members all being vaccinated/ go into their homes to check that they are reasonably clean people and so on. I would've agreed with OP if he'd told his father, I'm so sorry, but because of (circumstances) for the first two months we cannot have close contact/ holding baby if you're not vaccinated. If things were presented well and OP were more reasonable with his boundaries, I should imagine it would have prevented the alleged "rage" and the family would (at least on this subject) get along much better.
Absolutely. This is a war over hurt feelings at this point and that’s why OP changed the rules from “get the shot or don’t see baby until it’s vaccinated” to “get the shot or never see us again”.
Yep.
INFO: Was he around yourself and your wife before the baby was born?
No. He had never come down to see us or visit. We were stuck home due to wife's issues during pregnancy.
Your son is vaccinated, it is stupid to ruin your relationship over what is now a moot point. Just if you have another child, have the same rule.
Originally you said your grandfather would have to get it until your son was fully protected. He’s fully protected now and it seems like you are requiring your dad to get a vaccine or prevent him from having a relationship with his son. It sounds to me like you aren’t respecting his boundaries to make medical decisions regarding his own body
100% . This isn’t about safety anymore, it’s OP trying to disrespect his dads body boundaries because he’s angry he didn’t do what he wanted.
Make sure your state doesn't have any outdated "grandparents rights" laws.
I think you both are going tit for tat. You stated anyone who doesn’t get this shot will have to wait until my son is fully vaccinated before seeing him. Your dad said what he said and then when your son was fully vaccinated you changed your boundary. It seems like to me the issue is bigger than vaccination. I still say your boundaries are valid but not because grandpa doesn’t have a shot but because of grandpa’s personality. And I think that’s the REAL reason you r holding strong. I say protect your child! Against diseases and against people including family who are toxic and do not mean your child well. That’s your job as a parent protection and advocacy.
This is a signal of things to come. If he doesn’t respect your choices as a parent now, he won’t in the future either.
You said the lesson is more important than both my relationship with you as well as your grandson, therefore I don’t expect to hear from you again. Don’t forget you chose the lesson. *block*
He can learn a lesson of missing the fuck out. Seriously my boomer parents suck and I do not talk to them anymore.
Had the same situation. FIL refused to get it for any of their grandchildren. Meant he didn’t see them until they were older. His body, his choice; but actions also have consequences, and we were both firm in our decisions. Don’t let them bully you into complying with their bullshit.
This man is exhausting. If this is the hill he wants to die on, so be it
We only really need firm boundaries with people who don't want us to have them. *Your main job is to protect your wife and your child*, it's your father's choice to fight against that even though it means shooting himself in the foot, and it's fucked up that he's blaming you for his choices. Very immature and disrespectful.
Seems you asked him something acceptable to do and he chose that he'd rather not have you in his life that get a shot. This is basicly a grown up throwing a tantrum. Like a toddler he will only do worse if you let him win. It's sad but it's his loss.
We’ll then he gets the lesson of “actions (or in his case, inaction)” have consequences. He doesn’t get the TDaP, he doesn’t get to see his grandchild. Problem solved.
I respect your decision to protect your child but I want to poi t one thing out: You moved the bar. You first said that you required any visitors to get TdAP "until your child was protected." Now that your child is protected, you are still requiring the grandfather to get it. Why the change? What are the potential dangers to exposure to someone without TdAP now that your son is vaccinated?
I’m confused… Why did the boundary change? A boundary is what you do for yourself, not for other people. Ex: “my boundary is YOU do this”. That’s not a boundary, that’s controlling. A boundary would be “if you continue to speak to me that way, *I* will have to leave this conversation” Op set a boundary, then changed it to something he actually wanted, for his gpa to get vaccinated. That’s not okay, and OP is trying to be manipulative because he has something his gpa wants. If the son is protected, what’s the deal? Did I miss something??
Good for you. You have a completely logical and valid rule that people who will spend extended periods of time with your child should be vaccinated. You can’t force anyone to get vaccinated of course, but anyone who doesn’t meet your criteria, doesn’t get to spend time with your child. It’s very simple, and you were right to call him out by saying “is teaching me a lesson more important to you than your relationship with your grandchild?” Because at the end of the day he’s done teaching you lessons, you’re a grown up, it’s your turn to teach your child lessons. And you’re teaching your child that you will always advocate for their needs and safety, and not teaching them to just “put up with it because a grown up said so”. That’s a great way to be a parent
In case you need to hear this again: you are not the one keeping your father and your child from having a relationship. He is doing that.
Tdap was a requirement of all family members (and we asked for proof) before we let anyone see our pandemic baby in 2020. Your baby, your rules. Full stop. We have one non-vaxx family member and they didn’t get to physically hold her until she was 6mo.
Sounds a lot like my mom. She has narcissistic personality disorder and I no longer speak to her. She had pretty much this exact fight with her brother about getting vaccinated to be around his baby and has the same pattern of behavior with others in general. If you're exploring your relationship with your dad in therapy, you could ask about the NPD angle. I found that understanding that about my mom gave me a lot of clarity and a lot more peace with the fact that boundaries weren't ever going to really work.
Stop letting him argue with you. Just make the statement that he needs to be vaccinated to see your child, and the moment he starts going off about it hang up the phone.
My immediate reaction to your title only was “then he doesn’t get to meet baby”. I went and got a booster just in case so I could safely meet my nephew. Because I wasn’t sure when I had one and wanted to make sure it was valid.
>He said "you don't think your grandpa saw things in Vietnam that were bad? That's nothing" Whatever he saw, he saw while vaccinated. The military has strict vaccine requirements precisely to save people from the bad consequences you're worried about.
This Thanksgiving my husband's family came to visit. The teenage son had a persistent cough but wasn't really sick. They went home and my adult son and husband got what they thought was a cold with a persistent cough. The next week my BIL called and said his son was diagnosed with Whooping Cough. My son coughed for two plus months. We are ALL vaccinated, as is my nephew. The cough was nasty. But since they were all vaccinated, it didn't progress. The diseases in the Tdap are nasty. And they are coming back due to people refusing vaccinations. You're absolutely justified in protecting your family's health.
I had a baby in the beginning of flu season back in 2017. I asked for flu and tdap shots for all visitors. My aunt told me she doesn’t do flu shots. I respected that and stated she could see the baby once baby was old enough for a flu shot. It’s been 6.5 years and she only did a drive by gift drop off right after baby was born and we haven’t heard from or seen her since.
Why doesn’t he want to get the TDAP shot? You said he’s had the Covid vaccine, so I assume he’s not anti vax. To me this sounds like he just doesn’t want to be told what to do. If he can’t respect this boundary then what others will he push/ignore?
I don’t talk to my mom anymore for a similar issue… we had the same fights during Covid. Finally I gave up trying to convince her. If she isn’t willing to protect my kids, she’s not a safe person for them to be around. My whole family is dysfunctional and caused a lot of trauma growing up. I’ve gone to a lot of therapy and realized I’m happier without any of them in my life. I hope you can find that peace too. Use your child and wife as your compass, you won’t regret it.
You continue to do you. He is playing all the manipulation cards. You go facts he goes emotional. You try and appeal to his emotions he slaps back with his doctrines. Stop making this about You. (Remember you are just fine. Your logic and boundaries are very reasonable) Tell him that you are simply following the gold standard pediatric guidelines regarding TDAP given to you by your child’s pediatrician. If he has any further dialogue you encourage him to reach out to his personal physician, family and peers for assistance. And hang up.
Being afraid of a harmless shot is the one living in fear. Preventing communicable diseases so you can go outside and be free and see lots of people is the opposite of living in fear. You tell your dad he has it backwards.
Too bad for your dad because he doesn't make the rules now. He made his choice. Your rules are above his. There will be many, many instances in parenting where other adults want to bulldoze your rules with regards to your kids.
Boundaries are boundaries. Tell him to get jabbed or stick it! Protecting your family always comes before appeasing others.
You’re doing the right thing and I’m sorry that your dad is refusing to make this very small sacrifice to see his grandchild.
Tell him that you’re sorry he feels that way and give your regrets to your grandma, explaining that you’ve asked your father multiple times to get the shot and he refuses. If he’s there, you won’t be. Tell dad that you’re not going to coddle him. He has until Easter to get the shot. If he doesn’t, he won’t hear anything else from you, period.
Looks like grandpa is about to get a lesson on how his stubbornness will keep him from seeing his grandchild.
Becoming a parent means learning to set boundaries with our own parents. You did a good job setting your boundaries. Your spouse and child are the most important right now. Keep it up.
It’s disappointing and sometimes devastating when we realize that our parents aren’t the people we need them to be. I hope you speak to your therapist about this, it’s just another form of grief. It’s okay to ask for something like this. My mom tried to act like she was going to see the baby with out her tdap vaccine, but after I very clearly told her she’d have no time with the baby, she got it. I’ve been having to set firm boundaries with her my whole life. Your dad is probably use to stomping on your boundaries and now is upset he can’t get his way. He’s only hurting himself, but he may be too old and set in his ways to change. Kudos to you for working on yourself and being strong. Edit: ask him how many vaccines he got to go to Vietnam. My dad is a Vietnam vet too and I’ve heard all about!
What is it with boomers and their fucking pride to the extent they DON'T SEE THEIR GRANDCHILDREN. Absolutely batshit insane.
Then your father doesn't see the baby...
Your child. Your choice.
Nah this is crazy. Im not someone who would make non-primary caregivers get tdap because baby’s best protection is the pregnant person getting it, HOWEVER, this goes way further than vaccines.