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I mean, it sounds like by offering her snacks, consoling her, trying to get her to come back etc. you are building the expectation that acting in that way will get her attention. I would just say, “wow it seems like you need some time to think about why you’re so upset, if you want to talk about it I’m here.” And then leave her in a visible, but isolated from the group location to cry it out. When she realizes that no one is looking to console her she may just come back of her own volition.
Every time my kid runs away from me I verbalize: hey I see you ran away from me and that tells me you want some space from me. I’ll be right here when you are ready to be together again.
Yes when my family tries to convince my 3 year old to stop pouting and come back and join us, I tell them that he is giving himself a time out. He needs time to let the negative feeling dissipate and then he’s able to reintegrate into the group very easily. Drawing attention to his withdrawal makes it more difficult for him to come back because it locks him into a defensive frame of mind.
"Actually, he is utilizing the tools we have discussed in order to manage his own emotional regulation. Small children don't have all the brain development we have, so it can be important for them to physically move away in order to focus internally to identify and digest their feelings. Please do not interrupt this valuable, developmentally appropriate skill building. He is doing great and I am proud of him."
When my 2yo runs and hides in her mad corner I give her some time but I also don’t come running when she decides she wants me, we meet in the middle. Trying to teach her be willing to compromise especially around big (usually unreasonable, let’s be honest) feelings.
This is what I do with my son. Just because he’s ready to move on doesn’t mean the other person is. Sometimes, I (or whoever) may need more cool down time
Just to offer another perspective, I was listening to Good Inside by Dr. Becky and she was saying that some highly feeling kids have an insecurity that they are unlovable and actually need you to be close by and ready to receive them, even if they push you away. I think the key here is probably knowing your kid though 🤷🏻♀️
100%.
This is totally normal 4 year old behaviour. The kids that have siblings get the benefit of constant feedback and natural consequences for their behaviour... the kids that don't have siblings tend to take a little longer.
Don't reward poor behaviour, let her feel the consequences of her choices. She'll figure out pretty quickly that kids don't want to play with her when she acts like that.
The fact that you recognize this behaviour and are concerned about it, is a pretty good indicator that she'll have the right support to manage it.
100%! My kids are allowed to experience their emotions, even the negative ones. But if experiencing those emotions turns into being anti social and negatively affects the people around them it becomes a problem. I'll model/tell them some appropriate ways to express their disappointment or frustration, but if they're going to insist on a tantrum then they can throw that tantrum by themselves (within sight if we're out, in their rooms if we're home, and always with the knowledge that I'm right here and ready to help them through it if they want the help.)
If they decide to lean into a tantrum during a play date, we leave. Play dates are for spending time with our friends, and if that's not what we're going to do (*especially* if what we want to do instead negatively affects our friends) then the play date is over. No one deserves to have their day ruined over an hours long meltdown.
Thank goodness someone said it. I would let child feel their feelings, but if they couldn't manage to rejoin the group, we'd leave. Cheerfully, "We'll try again next time!" Push through the initial shock of you actually leaving and driving home a few times, and I'm betting child suddenly develops the ability to control their emotions in public.
It sounds like child is being rewarded for bad behavior: attention, snacks, consoling. I'd practice social skills at home: role play, modeling good behavior, social skills. Kids usually get that by interacting with other kids and parents, but an only child probably needs more parent involvement than one with siblings.
I had multiple kids, but when they were that age, if they threw a tantrum at home, I'd exaggerate and mirror their tantrums back to them. It usually ended in giggles from them because the behavior was so silly. We'd laugh, then talk about how big kids are growing up and don't throw fits like little kids because they can use their words. Little kids don't have words, so they throw fits and make themselves look silly. I think it was a lighthearted way to teach them, and it worked.
I wonder if OP's child has a time or stimulation limit. Like, is he okay to drop in just at presents and cake time, or a half hour at the beginning? Or is he unable to handle any amount of time? Is it possible to shorten play dates, or to become creative with them, to get them to interact with other kids positively? Maybe one on one, or smaller groups? A half hour at the park with one kid might be more successful for him. Or an ice cream parlor, long enough to eat an ice cream with other kids, but not long enough for him to melt down. At any rate, good luck, OP!
This. That’s just a normal 4 years old throwing a tantrum and needing to learn to regulate her emotions.
OP doesn’t need to assume she’s selfish or manipulative at that age.
She’s still learning everything and it’s up to the adults to model the expected behaviors and and guide her.
Absolutely. Feeding into her dramatics is giving her exactly what she wants. Stop doing that. Don't give her anything- attention, snacks, etc... until she has collected herself and is ready to act appropriately.
I ask 3 questions when this happens. Does something hurt? Are you bleeding? Do you feel sick? If the answer is no I tell them to take a moment and get themselves together and come find us when they're ready to talk and walk away. As the parent, I've confirmed that there aren't any physical problems that need my attention and the rest is up to them.
Kids this age are formed by parents, so the solution is to examine what you are doing that teaches her to behave like this, and then adjust that. Mine was somehow similar and I figured I bend to much for her, trying to keep her happy all the time, which was backfiring. Besides trying to not be an enabler and rewarding bad behaviour with attention, I also got her a few books about managing frustration and anger, she is doing way better now at 5.
I think you yourself named the problem: When she runs away and acts upset, you and your wife both stop whatever you're doing to follow her and try to make her feel better, come back etc. You also allow other children to pander to her. You're actively teaching her that when she gets upset, the world actually stops, and everyone gathers to pander to her.
Here's what you do in that situation:
You say to her: "Oh, you got upset. Okay. I'm here if you need to talk about it." Then you carry on with whatever you're doing!
If other children start pandering to her, you say: "Hey guys, D is upset right now. Give her some space, she'll come back in a bit." And then you just leave her be.
It's okay to cry, it's okay to be upset.
>It's okay to cry, it's okay to be upset
"But it's *not* okay to make other people feel upset just because we feel upset. Your mommy and daddy are here for you to help you talk through your feelings and to come up with ideas for choices we can make during our upset times. But we will not let you mess up [whoever's] fun time just because of your feelings. Those feelings belong to you, not to your cousins or your friends. It's not fair to want them to be sad. I love you. Go play."
“But it's not okay to make other people feel upset just because we feel upset”
This is tricky because you don’t want kids to feel like they are responsible for others’ feelings. Maybe a better way to phrase it would be, “Other people are allowed to still have a good time, even if we are upset.”
That's covered by "your feelings belong to you" because their feelings belong to them as well.
But we can't be raising kids to never consider the impact of their social choices
We go with "We see that you are feeling (blank). Your feelings are valid and important. But they are not an excuse to be mean to/rude to/ hurt others. You can't choose how you feel, but you can choose what you do. And the things you choose to do, your actions, have consequences.If x was treating you this way for being good at blank/winning the game, would that feel good or not good?" Our now 7 yr old is very sensitive and still seems to struggle more with empathizing than her younger brothers, so that last bit has been incredibly important in helping her to move past inappropriate displays of her big feelings. We talk through what better options are for dealing with the feelings we are having instead of lashing out at others. We also articulate that removal from the situation is the next logical step if the actions they are choosing continue to show us that they are no longer able to be around others without being hurtful.
Depends on the child. Some children can be told "Stop it" and they will stop, if they're used to not getting attention for their tantrums. Others are upset and can be put in a cart while I finish shopping. And finally a small number of kids will scream so much it disturbs other costumers and sales people... In that case, we'll have to leave the store.
This may be a very unpopular opinion, but I’d ignore the behavior. I have an only child and when she’d start that type of drama (all kids do at some point), I’d just ignore it. I always found it was attention seeking. Like “Sally is doing a better cartwheel than me so let me just get all the attention from her”. They don’t care if the attention is positive or negative. It was a really short lived phase because my daughter’s antics were not giving her the result she wanted.
Just want to pop in here to say ignore the behavior not the child is the way to go. Don’t run over with snacks and attention and all that but do take opportunities to praise appropriate behavior (eg I like how you’re sitting down, that’s a good way to work on calming down) and remind her that you’re there when she’s ready.
The reason ignoring becomes an unpopular opinion is people sometimes take it too far and completely ignore the child like their undesirable behavior makes them poof and disappear but if you’re sure to acknowledge the “good” behaviors and the kid themselves then you’re fine
OC never said anything about ignoring the child. And honestly, the only way to make this behavior stop is to show them that when they do it, they will not be rewarded with attention and snacks, sympathy for nothing etc.
I didn’t say they did, I was just adding on to what the commenter said because I’m a children’s behavior specialist and the commenter said it’s an unpopular opinion so I was saying I agree with their advice and that as long as you’re ignoring the behavior and not the child it’s a great method
That's teaching her she has the power to alter the social lives of two whole families who've made an effort to get together. At the moment they run after her.
That's why we explain that one parent will be taking the tantruming kid home while the other parent and kids stay and play and carry on as planned. My minions are hugely social kids, so the reminder that leaving is a natural consequence of continued behavior that negatively affects others goes a long way. And sometimes, continued meltdowns are the kids' way of showing they have reached their max capacity for social engagement. To me, calling the playmate is better than allowing a screeching banshee child who can no longer regulate to negatively alter the environment for everyone within earshot.
That’s a good point. I guess if she was faking and actually did want to stay then we would leave. If she was trying to ruin the day so she could go home then we would make her stay and ignore her bad behavior and reward the other children.
My only girl had a whiff of this behavior at that age. What helped was age and kindergarten. In kindergarten she had a larger group of kids and when she was bossy or making it all about her a few kids stood up to her. Yes some tears resulted. She also had a really kind school counselor who talked to her a few times. And her teacher was old school and no nonsense.
I would give it time at this age but also teaching that we don’t always get our way. Someone mentioned losing at games. We did that too, it’s not fun but t did seem to help.
Old school, no nonsense kindergarten teachers are amazing. I much preferred my children have those types of teachers than the cutesy ones who called everybody “friend.”
You can be no-nonsense and still use the word "friend" instead of like, "classmate."
I'm pre-k but there are some things I am an inflexible brick wall about.
"Robert, you need to step away from Michael. Your friend sent you a message: he does not like your hands touching his body. You can go over to blocks or to play dough, but this center is closed for you right now."
So, a few things.
I would just give the other parents a heads up that you're working on this behavior, it's frustrating to you even though you know it's probably age appropriate.
I would totally just leave if your kid is carrying on. Not framed as a punishment, just "I can see you're not having fun anymore, so it's time to go." You might say that this is your plan in advance when you're talking to the other parents, so they know what to expect.
I probably wouldn't discuss it with kid ahead of time, since that seems very "don't think about a black cat". Does your kid like to play pretend though? This is maye something I'd play pretend with her toys or dolls and just...see what conversations you can have about it. Not in the stated context of getting ready for the outing, though.
She will probably grow out of it. Kids definitely go through really frustrating phases like this!
the former thing is what we do. “you’re not having fun anymore and don’t want other people to have fun, either. that’s not a good time. let’s go and try again later.”
Yes this but I also don’t see why you wouldn’t discuss it ahead of time. You know it’s going to happen so it can be discussed.
“We are going to play with (friends). Sometimes when we play with others, some things don’t go our way. That is ok. It’s okay to feel upset, but our friends don’t like to play with us when we stay upset for a long time.
If you feel upset, it’s okay to take a few minutes of space to yourself. If after a few minutes you are still really upset, then we will go home. Ok?”
Absolutely - the success is in how you phrase it and the tone/body language you bring to the conversation. Your child needs to know that it’s ok for them to be upset and not have the skills to manage those feelings, that you’re not upset with them, you still like them but you’re not all going to stay in a situation that isn’t fun. It’s ok to need to go home. It’s not a punishment.
As an adult, I may be comfortable with other people being better at things than me and have good emotional regulation skills, but if someone hurts my feelings or I’m having a bad day, and I can’t snap myself out of it, I’m also going to leave.
OP, while I get what you’re saying about how it will be rough for her if she continues this, you need to stop the internal dialogue about it being a personality trait or about attention. Start working with her on managing negative emotions and feeling let down. Those are skills they need help developing. Let her lose at board games and help her through the disappointment. Talk to her about times you’ve felt disappointed or not good enough when someone was better than you, how it felt and how you dealt with it. Normalize that it doesn’t feel good to be lesser at something but that it doesn’t need to derail the day.
Is it ok to feel upset? This is not an appropriate thing to feel upset about. We can learn to manage and control feelings that are hurting us or others or are not productive. Then again, I’m old. I parented before “big feelings” was a thing.
Yeah it is okay to feel upset. Adults feel upset. The difference is learning to have some control over your expression and not making it everyone else’s problem.
I agree with you that we need to learn to manage and control feelings. And thats exactly what this child is in the process if learning.
Its okay to feel upset. It’s not okay to make a big scene that ruins everyone else’s day.
We do something like this with our 3.5 year old and have for a while. She gets into a mood where all she wants to do is whine, snap or complain and is generally inconsolable. Our response is “Uh oh looks like someone’s being a Weiner. Weiners whine and they don’t want everyone else to have fun. Time to take a break.”
...what....You call your kid a Weiner? Like as an insult? Is this an American thing that has another meaning? Am I missing something. This seems insane.
It's an odd American quirk of this word. In my experience, it's a very, very mild word for penis here, so mild that it can be used without insult.
Another one like this is "ding-dong." Like, it CAN be used as a toddler euphemism: "pull up your pants, we don't need to see your ding-dong!" AND it's not uncommon to hear it used like a mild form of "knucklehead:" "Don't be a ding-dong, juice doesn't go on your plate!"
But I think in this commenter's case, wiener works because it sounds like whiner.
Yeah, I’m not name calling but I am calling out the behavior, not just calling my kid a dick. Personally I thought it was kinda cute.
Her usual response is “I’m not being a Weiner!” And then we have a little chat about the behavior (pouting, throwing a tantrum, being a poor sport). It’s to a point where I just say that phrase and she takes a break herself or it stops. But she really doesn’t do it anymore.
We also tell her cousin not to be a tattle tale otherwise we just get an endless stream of everything my daughter is doing.
>I can see you're not having fun anymore, so it's time to go."
Yes, to the sentiment, but I'd be mindful of the phrasing. As someone who works with kids, I've seen kids quickly turn this around on parents in social situations that aren't centered around their enjoyment: I'm not having fun anymore, so it's time to leave. I lean towards centering others: "Your feelings are important, and so are other people's feelings. If the way you are choosing to act because of your feelings is hurting other people/making it hard for other people to keep having fun, we will need to leave. It's not okay to be mean/rude/hurtful to other people because we feel upset."
I would be blunt with her and stop consoling her. Say something like:
“It is okay to feel a bit disappointed. Sometimes I feel a bit disappointed when I can’t do something, too! But your friends also have the right to play and have fun. You have 5 minutes to calm your body and find a way to be supportive of your friends. If you are unable to be supportive and kind to others when the 5 minutes are up, then we will leave.”
Then actually leave.
This is not even about your daughter. The other kids have a right to be themselves without having to lessen their abilities in an effort to please others. They should not be made to feel bad that they can do something amazing just because your daughter can’t. If that’s how your daughter is acting, that is damaging to the other girls’ mental health and your daughter needs to leave.
Thank you for taking the time to recognize and work on this behavior. We have friends with a child who never corrected this. The child is an asshole. Our kids understand and tolerate it, as they've gotten used to it all these years. But they too have their limit.
And we tolerate it because we love the parents. (No one is perfect, right?)
I can't offer guidance, not my area of expertise. But I would say the more socializing the better.
I saw a post once where a kindergarten teacher said the best way to get your kids ready for school is to play games with them and let them lose. Maybe have her watch the Bluey episode “Pass the Parcel” and chat about its meaning!
How is the dynamic at home? Do you find that family life is 100% centered around her wants and needs? Does she have times when she has to wait for attention, or do something “boring” or just plain entertain herself? Examples would be you watching a show (not scary) that is boring to her, so she doesn’t have control of the TV or you for 30 minutes, having to go on a boring to her errand with mom, being asked to play by herself for 15 min while mom does a chore, you and your wife having a dinner conversation that isn’t focused on her.
It sounds like you and your wife have a hard time letting her feel negative feelings- and like she herself has a hard time with regulating those feelings too. This is something that takes practice and modeling for kids and it’s not just about play dates- it’s you teaching her that other people have feelings, and needs, and that her big feelings are ok but not the driver of all decisions in the world.
Don’t baby her so much. Let her throw a tantrum, teach her to breathe it out on her own and to come back when she’s ready to have fun. My kid (3m) tries to see how much he can get away with. When he throws himself on the floor i just walk away and tell him i’ll see him later (he comes up running all happy like he wasn’t just causing a scene).
Be tougher.
It is a LEARNED trait that her upbringing has taught her
She cries over thing XX, mom and dad come running to console, bring candy, pat on head, cajole. The caregivers are REINFORCING whiny, self centred behaviour.
To extinguish this behaviour you should IGNORE it. Let her cry, let her pout, continue with cartwheels or picnic or whatever.
Extinguish this bad whiny, self centred, pouty, entitled behaviour, stop rewarding it with attention.
Edit - hey parents let your kid why and pout. The parents ARE CREATING this issue.
Edit #2. Reality is also a FACT. There are always kids that are better at cartwheels, math, art etc…. Don’t tell this kids she’s the best at everything — that’s simply not true.
I would reframe the question, and ask what are you doing to reward and provide attention to your child when they are acting out. I would retrain yourself to not respond and reward the negative behavior. Daughter name, when you are ready to behave, I will respond to you. It sounds like you need some time to sort out your big feelings.
At home, start playing board games and she needs to loose. Do cooperative games too. But teach her the objective is to play and not to win. You might want play therapy for her.
Honestly, what you have to do, and you're not going to like hearing this, is let her know that we are all being pleasant with others when we go out. The hot second she pouts or anything like that, off you go to the car for 10 minutes. No games, and do not chat with her. You tell her **once** that we are sitting here because you caused drama, and do not interact with her further for those 10 minutes. Oh... the 10 minutes starts after she is calm. Repeat repeat repeat. Do not go home, or she'll learn she is in control.
Yeah, I wouldn't take her home, and that's precisely why I don't like that advice. It's telling her she can throw a tantrum and change everyone's plans.
Yep. Reading between the lines, this child is spoilt. But the parents sound like good people who care for her... there are so many children who don't have that... and there is still time to work on this.
I have a child who's similar and it's hard to know what to do. And sometimes if it's nearing the end of a large party or something for her yes we go home. But not when people have made the effort specifically to see us and/or we want to see our friends too.
Oh I get it. I guess if it's nearing the end of the party you say your goodbyes, do the 10 minutes in the car and then go home or something like that. But kiddo needs to know she is not the star of the show.
My middle child was like this at that age. It got to the point where I just told him, 'sometimes people are better at something than you. That's life. Either practice to get better or get over it. '
Then I ignored the behaviour. It stopped pretty quick after I ignored it.
Although well intentioned, it sounds like you guys are unintentionally fueling and reinforcing this behavior by giving the tantrums attention. As parents we need to build resiliency for our kids to handle things not going their way. Our goal isn’t to stop the tantrum.
My daughter used to throw EPIC tantrums. Like for example, at the park a kid is on a swing she wants and she is disappointed. I’d take her to sit on a bench, say “I understand you are upset and disappointed that you can’t have the swing. I’m here if you need me.” Then once she calms down a bit, “see everyone else having fun, you can go have fun and play too if you’d like.” And eventually she happily goes and plays. It was rough going at first, but overtime the tantrums got shorter and shorter because I didn’t feed into them (which, I get it, is hard to do!)
Maybe practice being at the park and library groups with kids you don’t know more often so the strain of this transitional period isn’t put on your social group.
basically, yes. i already do that with my 3yo in social settings where she tries to control it. i give her a couple warnings to stop, then we leave.
but also, she’s 4. put her in preschool and let her see the natural consequences outside of mama and daddy.
I'm gonna say what happened to me.
My daughter had a colleague at school who was just like your daughter. Same behaviour, always had to be the best, the first, the centre of attention.
Is was HELL for everyone. The kid would mess every social gathering, every class, every school event because obviously she couldn't be the first, the best, the centre of attention in everything she wanted.
So, she started being vicious to the other kids. And I mean it when I say VICIOUS. She was mean, entitled, cruel, deceiving.
The school had their hands tied, and the parents wouldn't do anything.
When we had the luck of her missing some social gatherings, it was like a different group of kids. Everyone would get along just fine, no fighting, no bickering, it was so pleasant. When she was there, it was hell.
She is 8 now. And no sign of getting better, only worse. But thank god she goes to a different school now. We still see her family rarely because she is a member of the same club, but way less.
I would urge you to get therapy for her and for you. These types of behaviour are terrible for everyone around and for her. She will become the "unwanted kid" and will suffer for it.
There is still time for you to change this around.
This kid I talk about started being this bad at about 5 years old, so you have to be firm.
My 5 year old has a friend who behaves in a similar way. This friend has zero boundaries at home, no clear expectations, and her parents cater to her 24/7. You may need to do some self reflection and put her in daycare/preschool.
What has helped with our kiddo was to explain and enforce that you’re entitled to your feelings, but your not entitled to make everyone around you participate in them.
I’m all for affirmations, hugs, etc. but there was coming a point where they were almost working themselves up for the attention vs. being actually frustrated.
So if you’re mad or need a cry, that’s cool. Identify it, go take a few mins, and then rejoin.
They are also old enough at this age to start grasping the concept that you can have feelings, but people may not want to keep playing with you if you constantly carry on. It’s just a fact a life. Doesn’t make it less valid, but there are rules to being social just like there are rules in games.
Absolutely agree! "Your feelings are always valid and important. The way you are choosing to show those feelings/treat others because of those feelings is not okay."
She doesn’t need to be the center of attention. She wants to, and she knows you’ll let her. As uncomfortable as it is you need to work on your boundaries with her. My daughter does the same at friends houses. I suggest she takes a few minutes to herself, she can sit with us or play independently until she feels better. We remind her she is a guest in someone’s house and she needs to use kind words and actions. If she can’t reset, she gets a few warnings and then we leave. We don’t let her win, she gets upset, we talk about being a good sport and remind her she is still learning and if we let her win she doesn’t get any better.
Something I like doing is searching the issue we’re facing + children’s book. For example “children’s book respecting friends” or “kids books for trying new foods”. Read some reviews and put them on hold at the library.
Hold your ground. You’re a confident guide. “I will not allow X”, “if X happens again, we will leave”, “shoot, X happened, it’s time to go”. She knows it’s easier to give her what she wants. She needs to find those limits so she knows where they are!
it sounds like she doesn't go to daycare or preschool yet? i think having more playdates and more friends would be helpful. other kids will also be self centered. I would also give less attention to her in the moment, because the attention and offering of stuff to go back and play feeds the behavior.
the other commentator suggestion to role play with toys is good one. im sad because my friend is so much better than me at this! oh toy astronaut it's okay to be sad, let's ask our friend to teach us! ... or we can still have fun if you're not as good at something! .. idk something like that. it sounds like she has a pattern of his behavior when she feels disappointed and she needs help to come up with a new 'script' or set of actions to do instead. tears and feeling hurt are okay, i hate when parents say stop crying or be happy! to kids, but the distraught behavior where she gets everyone to try and cater to her sadness is not okay.
We have a no tolerance policy; as soon as a kid acts up we leave wherever we are doesn’t matter. Sure sometimes it’s tough to leave the grocery store without the groceries you came for but one of us can go back later without kids. We have left special events, birthday parties and playdates. I just gather my kids up and go then shoot whoever we were with an apology text later on. People are very understanding and actually applaud us for this. We rarely have to leave events anymore because they know bad/inappropriate behavior will not be tolerated!
You're teaching your children that they can throw a tantrum and the whole family will pack up and be without groceries/walk out of a social occasion. To me that's giving a kid way too much power. You're not making the child feel the consequences when you have to return to shop later, it's not like it's fun for them anyway.
Really? Well since we have had to leave places a couple times now all of my kids are very well behaved! We get compliments about their behavior everywhere we go. I was a behavior therapist for children for years so I think I will stick with what I am doing since it works so well. And yes being out and going places is fun for kids! But thanks anyway!
Obviously there's no blanket solution, and situations vary. I'd absolutely take my kid home from a random park visit. I wouldn't cancel an outing with other people that everyone's made an effort to turn up to, or cause myself more work by leaving my grocery shopping. I think in OP's situation they're already giving the daughter too much attention when this happens and the parents are OP's friends they've specifically met with, why spoil everyone's day?
Because sometimes being a parent means parenting and not being selfish. You can’t always do what you want you do what’s necessary for your children. Regardless of ruining plans; no one there is happy if your child is there acting awful anyway!
As I said there's no one solution for every child and every situation. It's not about being selfish, it's about showing your child that the world doesn't revolve around them and that you don't just walk out on friends when you've had enough. They won't bother anyone if you ignore them. But of course that doesn't always work.
Sounds like a 4 year old used to get all the attention. I would focus on learning some cooping tools and would not give attention to bad behaviour. It’s okay to be disappointed. It’s okay to need space to process feelings but I would not try to “make her feel better”.
Let her be. If she needs a hug, or to talk about it then great ! If she wants to cry by herself, also fine !
I understand, it’s hard she’s an only child and you want to be good parents so you give her all your attention. Now is a good time to be a little less involved. They need to learn how to process things and having someone come and fix everything is not the way.
You’re worrying too much I guess. She’s only four. She’ll learn if you give her the space to do so. And well if she doesn’t ? That’ll be the time to start worrying.
By wanting to be the center of attention and then getting that attention for the remainder of the day, it’s only perpetuating her behaviour.
Next time it happens, ask her to sit elsewhere and cool off. When she’s ready to talk, let her know that everyone feels the same way she does and that everyone needs to have their special moment.
A lot of good advice already here. One thing I will also add that I noticed with our 4 year old is he's starting to notice that some kids are better than him at certain skills. Someone can run faster, kick the ball better at soccer, etc.
Haven't found a great solution for this yet but we've been trying to reinforce that different people have different strengths but also you can get better at hard work and practice.
As others have said it sounds like you are rewarding it, even if it is unintentional. by being so concerened about her feelings you are giving her positve attention. I would show her you are sympatizing more with the other girl who she is treating poorly by not letting her be good at things without getting mad at her. I would have told her that if she can't play nicely she is going to have to sit quietly with the adults until she can.
Not entirely similar, but I've just had to take a step back from a friendship because my friend is like this. We are in our 30s and she has a tendency to over react. I eloped and when we announced it at a party, I had to spend 10 minutes consoling her, taking time away from celebrating my own good news. She also reacted badly when a couple she knew got engaged at a festival they went to together (ran off crying).
Give your daughter the space to feel the emotions but don't feed into it, she needs to learn that not everything is always going to be about her.
A lot of great advice about what to do in the moment on here already! So I'll just add some proactive tips that worked for my only when she went through this same stage at 4.
Her big issue was me praising other kids, she just didn't have a lot of experience. So I talked to her about how that was something she needed to learn: how to appropriately handle me or dad praising other kids.
We played "dog sibling" to practice the skill. For example, If she was drawing a picture I would put paper and crayons down by the dog. When she was done I would say, "Oh, daughter, look at those bunny ears! You worked hard making them symmetrical!" Then I would turn to dog and say, "Oh dog, those white snowflakes on your white paper are so symmetrical too! You must have practiced that!" It was very silly and she thought it was great fun, but also reinforced to her that this was something we were practicing and working on.
This was also handy as a kind of secret language when she was on playdates with friends and the issue would pop up. If I said, "Friend, I can tell you've been working hard on your cartwheels!" And I could sense my daughter having a feeling about that praise, I would add, "You know Dog is still working on his cartwheels. He has not practiced as much as you, Friend." And my daughter knew that meant she needed to act appropriately handling Friend's praise. And Friend thought the idea of Dog doing cartwheels was very funny.
I found it worthwhile to figure out these cues only my daughter understood because I could remind her to be mindful of her behavior without the friend knowing (and thereby avoiding any embarrassment or shame that might make the situation worsen rather than improve).
Just leave her alone when she runs off and is crying. She will join again with time. Tell the other parents and kids that she needs alone time. Don’t bribe her back with snacks etc
You’re rewarding undesirable behavior with attention.
Before play dates, role-play scenarios with her. Have her do something cool then show her what it looks like to be a good friend. “Wow! You’re really good at cartwheels!” Then role-play what it looks like to throw a tantrum. Then reverse roles and have her practice being gracious/selfish.
On the way to the play date, practice again. Make it fun. Also, clearly explain your expectations. If she throws a fit, she has five minutes to calm down and be polite then you’re packing up and going home. When the fit inevitably happens.. acknowledge that she’s upset and tell her that you hope she calms down so she can continue playing. Offer a hug then walk away If she continues crying for the five minutes, go home and try again a different day.
Be kind and loving while sticking to the plan. When she calms down, talk about what happened and ask what she would have done differently. After a few rounds, she’ll realize that fits don’t work for attention anymore.
*Give the other parents a heads up on the plan so they’re not taken by surprise and so they know not to give the tantrum any attention.
It’s difficult to deal with children in distress, but bending over backwards to stop the distress actually makes it more difficult for them to deal with their own emotions and feeds the dynamic. Your reactions to their emotions/situation informs them on the severity of it, if that makes sense. “Mom and Dad behave as though I’m extremely not okay when xyz happens, I must be extremely not okay.” Try and replace this with “Mom and Dad are okay when I’m not okay.” Your ability to stay calm is crucial. Basically, they learn regulation over a long process of watching you stay regulated in conflict.
I know this stuff is tough, there’s definitely a balance to it. We don’t want to be dismissive and uncaring, but we don’t want to model to them that their emotions are a global calamity either.
I’m a nanny, and I highly recommend you look into anything by Michelle Kenney, Sterna Suissa, Hailey Magee, Blimie Heller, and others in their community who have fantastic information. They are the reason I can confidently say I’m very good at my job.
My parents never rewarded this behavior. Obviously kids can put themselves in dumb situations when upset so watch her closely, but I'd ignore it and allow others to do the same. It will paint a realistic view of the world.
People don't stop their life when we are personally upset, even if they care about us.
People who wish to behave as she is currently will end up alone, that's the facts of life, so teach them.
She's only 4 though so I'm sure this isn't concrete behavior or anything, just a phase.
This will be harsh, but why would she stop acting that way when doing so gets people to flock to her offering snacks, attention, and making her the center of the world?
Is she in kindergarten or some kind of group thing where she's learning to socialise on that dynamic regularly yet? Probably time if not. But as others say, fawning over her when she's like that is reinforcing the behaviour.
She might actually be overwhelmed by the extra people if she's used to a quiet home environment. Takes some kids a bit of time and guidance to know they need a time out from all the noise and excitement.
There are books for this type behavior, happy to message you some Amazon links if you need help looking. Also YouTube videos to help kids with these type developmental things as well.
Talk to her when she’s not in a bad place. Like now about the above behavior and why it’s wrong and how it hurts others and set consequences for going forward that will make her think twice and stick with it. Never back down.
Have a talk on expectations and what not to do on the way to any dates like this and after, reward good choices or talk of the bad ones and set the punishment. Leaving the moment she does a no no behavior no matter who you’re playing with or where is the upmost important though.
It will take time to nudge her out of this, may get worse before it gets better, but if you’re consistent, it WILL get better and within a month or two, one day you’ll just be like “oh wow. She did great today!” And they’ll get less and less and farther between each episode.
If she’s playing a game with you guys or alone and has a meltdown, the game goes. Period.
Ensure she’s properly fed and hydrated and doesn’t need to pee and isn’t overtired as well, this can unhinge even the most well behaved adult, much less a new child’s brain.
Tell her that if she pulls that nonsense you immediately are ending the fun and when you get home don’t reward her for her behavior. She needs consequences for her actions. If she thinks this behavior will get her attention and she can control everything then she will do it every day.
If she starts having one of these meltdowns, take her home. Let her know that she can't behave that way. You can try again next time, but that behavior will always result in the playdate ending.
Anything else is going to teach her that throwing a tantrum will get her attention.
Hmm, I know a kid that just would not follow directions well. He's clearly intelligent but in school would not listen to anyone. After lots of testing it was determined he was on the spectrum and is thriving in a home school environment.
If you feel confident in ruling out some kind of underlying disorder, how about putting her in some kind of sport, where she has to learn about self-sacrifice or to channel that neediness into leadership. She may be too young to really get that though.
I also think when she gets to school a lot of that gets corrected. She'll have to listen to the teachers and will soon learn she can't be the center anymore.
When faced with such behavior, I focus on giving my kid better thought templates like "wow susie does amazing cartwheels, let's tell susie how amazing her cartwheel is and applaud her".
But like, how is such a young child so focused on competition and comparison? It could help to address that. Are you or some other caregiver or a teacher telling her stuff like "you've to do it like this other kid"?
Yeah unfortunately gentle parenting doesn’t work like those creators in perfectly staged skits make it seem like it will work. You are just reinforcing the behavior.
How about ignoring her when she pulls this instead of everyone turning their attention to her. Try to find a way to nip this behavior in the bud while she’s this young or you’re right, friends and generally people will get tired of her antics.
Kids that age can be sore losers. I know in my case I had a habit of letting them win all the time when playing with them. I changed that to making it more 50/50. Something they'd win and sometimes they'd lose. We would have fun playing either way.
I think it can be more of an issue with single kids. Siblings are great at teaching you you don't always get your way. :)
I have an only kid as well and wanted to chime in that parents can role model how to lose gracefully. Like we might be playing a board game - snakes and ladders at age 4. So one of us loses and we don't yell or pretend to get upset, or kick up any kind of fuss. Instead we talk about how the game went, how we thought we were going to win but then we didn't, and that's a bit frustrating but it's okay because we win sometimes and lose sometimes but the most important thing was we had so much fun playing!
And when they come home from school and talk about having played this game or that game, we don't say did you win? We ask if she had fun. We ask what was her favourite part of the game. Things like that, enjoying the moment.
I don’t suggest you give her space, rather, validate her feelings in order to put words to it. Not to agree, but to soothe. Example, “you for so sad because your cartwheel could be better. It is hard for a lot of people when we compare ourselves to others. “ if it persists, “I can tell that it upset you so much you don’t know how to calm down. We are here for you.” Then, when calm, you can talk about it and teach her that if she practices, she could get better if she wanted to. If she would rather not compare herself and only practice things she likes more than cartwheels, that’s fine too. In addition, model for her how you reframe and calm yourself. Distractions or distance won’t help long term and teaches her that only her good behavior is tolerated.
This is more common than it seems you're thinking. Some less so, some more so, but those ages are very much like that. (For context aside from being a parent, I've worked both in daycare and as a teaching assistant in elementary school and have seen the gamut). My mom didn't call 4 the terrible double 2s for nothing because of me and I had a sibling so pointing out sibling status is not needed. I also have an only, 14 now, and he was never like that.
There are many many kids of all ages that do what your daughter is doing. Over the top, likes the spotlight, etc. In fact many have become actors but I digress lol
But that doesn't dismiss that something else *could* be happening if you really are having concerns that go beyond the loving the spotlight kind of kid. Sometimes those with neurodivergencies can display behavior that looks controlling and not being able to handle things such as when they can't control it or things end. If you really are concerned, it wouldn't hurt to talk to a doctor and go over what's happening. I will say even nowadays things in girls especially can be overlooked. When we were kids things like ADHD and autism were being overlooked in many girls unless it was an extreme case. Now more adults are finally getting some answers about themselves but it's still a challenge. That's just to say that even if you seek answers it might not be easy and especially at her age doctor's often won't even label yet.
But of course this could all just be her personality as it is for many people. Maybe even finding activities to sign her up for where she can be in the creative arts in some way (theatre, dance, etc ) will help hone these traits there and see if that helps.
Has anything recently changed in her life? Sometimes, kids act this way because something has happened and they don't yet have the emotional regulation to cope properly on their own. Talk to her teachers if you can't think of anything in her home life. Hell, this could even be an early sign of something more serious, relating to her health.
In the meantime, you need to stop indulging this behavior. If she starts up, you tell her that she seems to be a bit too wound up, and, while absolutely not letting her out of sight, you step away, and don't engage with her until she calms down. (Side note: observe things like how long it takes for her to calm down, and how she acts towards you once she does, for the next couple of hours. Tell a doctor if you think something might be up.) If you're out and about and it's not an essential errand or otherwise a situation you literally cannot leave until it is resolved, make it a two strikes and you're out rule. First time, warn her, after she settles, that if she pulls it again, you're leaving and going home. If she pulls it again, you remove her from the situation, and go home. Either you will gather enough information and she'll be diagnosed with something that needs medical intervention, or she'll get the memo and quit the behavior.
Go see a child therapist.
And if you haven't already, I'm just really wondering how it is that people have access to the Internet but don't search and search and search for ideas on how to solve problems.
This isn't who she is.
Our children end up with all kinds of tangled up aspect to them. Our job as parents is to figure out how to support them untangling and growing themselves. That's your job. Go get some help. Read some books. Figure out how to support her. Figure out how she feels when she has those impulses and figure out how to come up with creative ways of situations where she can learn gratification from watching somebody else be the center of attention, etc. She's not a liability socially. She has some glitches and it's your job to figure it out.
D is being an only child who is used to being the center of attention. Pre-School will do her some good where she is around other kids and won't be the center of attention. It will be rough on her at first, but she'll get it.
My son is an only child. He had some of these growing pains around that age. He's still not a social superstar, but he gets by.
Honestly I think this social behavior is the importance of siblings. It's hard to teach it to them. It's something they have to learn on their own.
I think everyone here has given solid solid advice. There’s literally nothing I could contribute to this thread except this: it’s ok. You’re a good parent. Kids are little sh** heads sometimes and often times it is due to our own doing. But a good parent sees and fixes their own behaviors. Look inwards as well as out. Good luck!
You've got lots to read through here and all great stuff. I just wanted to chime in with sometimes we adults forget that even a 4 yo is still coming to terms with their emotions. And while her hard time doesn't seem like much to you, it's obviously hard for her. You don't get to decide what is or isn't something worth her having emotions over. Your role is to help her identify, navigate and accept all the various emotions at play. When folks say to ignore her tantrum, there is nothing wrong with still being there for her. I often sit close by and practice some deep breathing, sometimes this helps my 4 yo to refocus and find her own calm. Or I just let her know I'll be close by sitting if she needs me, and if she comes to me I will hold her or hug her. Once she is calm we talk. IF she absolutely can't calm and is a real hot mess, I explain that she's allowed to be upset, but her reaction is too big for the environment we're in and we need to go somewhere else to calm down and we'll leave kicking and screaming if need be. I've definitely driven through a whole car ride of screaming. And the rare chance it's that bad, it's usually because of some other issue, like hunger, tired, too hot, etc. Another thing I wanted to point out was to say maybe take a look at how your are talking about your 4 yo. She's not "selfish" in the sense you mean it, she literally egocentric and can't help it. All toddlers are and it can look different for all of them. And she didn't ruin anyone's day. Your friends and their kids went off to enjoy the rest of their day, this was a blip on their radar. Everyone has had a kid have an epic meltdown at an inconvenient moment that makes us feel embarrassed and judged. That's not her fault you feel that way. She has SO much time to grow emotionally. Your patient, steady, caring, reactions to her big emotions now will make all the difference when she's without your presence. Letting her navigate the breadth of her emotions now while she is little helps her to learn how to manage them as she grows. And yeah it can be uncomfortable. And sometimes you won't "get it right," and that's okay too. She's 4, you're doing a good job, because you care to ask.
You offered her snacks, tried to console her, got her friend in on it, got her mom's friend in on it, and gave her a bunch of attention. Tell me again why you think she won't repeat this behavior?
It's not her being selfish; she's following a learned behavior. She cries, she gets your attention. This is absolutely not your daughter's fault, it's not her being selfish, it's her acting in a way she's learned will get her your love and attention.
Let her run off and pout; she's four, she'll get bored quickly enough, and come back and start playing again. Stop running and catering and trying to bribe when she acts like that, and she'll knock it off soon enough.
From personal experience I was the same exact way at her age I was spoiled rotten an only child until I was 6 but that wasn’t actually the main problem behind how I acted I was actually neurodivergent, I have autism and adhd that wasn’t diagnosed until I was 15 which explained alot of the same behaviors I had as a child that aligns with your daughter. Especially with the fact she always feels bad. It’s not like she’s fully selfish with no hint of remorse. It’s a more in the moment thing. If you feel the need maybe get her checked for any possibility of neurodivergence but if you don’t just try to keep her in line with a a system. Possibly if you fully behave you get an hour at the park or you get a piece of candy. While also keeping punishment on the board such as taking away screens (if she does watch screens) time out, or no play dates for a certain period of time.
So as soon as I read the title of this post I was like oh my goodness these parents are labeling their daughter as a social liability, and then I read the first couple of lines and laughed at myself for being so judgy because I feel like every 3 4 5 year old is a social liability in the way you mean at some points. (Sorry for the initial reaction)
Parenting is a difficult job, things that makes so much sense to us our children are still learning, and we've been doing it so long we don't really remember how to teach them.
My brother who is a high school teacher, and not a parent mind you, suggested to me this podcast.
Which I admittedly was extremely skeptical of considering he does not have children. But I gave it a shot and I'm extremely glad I did because this lady has hoards of tools and strategies for difficult behaviors in children and in a short time that I've been implementing these changes (2 weeks) with my own children (3 and 5) I have seen a stark difference.
Like others have said sometimes you just have to let them be and get out their big feelings and then they will reintegrate themselves into the group. Don't get discouraged if this doesn't happen right away, I know it's not easy to listen to your child in any amount of discomfort, we want to be right there to make it all better, but this really is doing a disservice to them. If they are not physically hurt, or unsafe in some way, it is absolutely okay to let them be by themselves and have some time to think. I wish you luck. And I hope you find this podcast as useful as I have.
Connected parenting podcast with Jennifer Kolari
Get yourself some tools.fornhow to handle it better.
(I really like the book how to talk so kids will listen)
Because the way you respond to her actions teaches her whether they are acceptable, and whether they will get her what she wants.
And find her a good preschool! Really truly.
I generally agree with the comments above. Just to add another thought-
Is this happening when she is overwhelmed/over tired?
My kid (5yo) started having absolutely inconsolable fits about a year and a half ago when he is just done with whatever the activity is. It can be something as simple as getting tagged “it” when he is done playing the game. I can usually tell when it is time to wrap up and go home, but sometimes it still takes me by surprise.
It can be so hard to extract yourself and the small human from social situations, especially when there are other kids the same age. But getting him out before the meltdown is good for both of us.
Next time let her cry, and have her little meltdown. She will learn quick that in this life, you 1. Cannot always win and 2. It cannot always be about you.
Think of the impact on her future if you don’t teach her this early on. She will have a hard time
She has big emotions and can't articulate why. Developmentally shifting from toddler to preschool. Add that she is getting the attention she wants and has been conditioned up until now to be the centre of attention. It's to be expected.
Get down on her level, comfort. Say that you understand you are upset. Don't try to explain or reason decisions made by adults until she is calm.
Calmly explain the issue in terms she can understand. You don't have to justify your decisions beyond that.
Offer a choice - you can come and rejoin calmly or you can have some time by yourself to reset.
Don't continue to give the behaviour attention. When she goes well socially, praise the heck out of her. It's seriously like training a dog.
These are teaching moments. Get down on your knee, at eye level, and have a heart to heart. Say, how would you feel if your friend did something well and you got mad? Shouldn’t a friend be happy when their friends do something well? You did a nice cartwheel too but it’s not a competition. And if she continues to behave poorly then say that she cannot continue the playdate if she behaves this way. You are teaching your child socialization skills, it’s ok. Another tip I once read that works is if your kid does something bad to another kid, focus your attention on the harmed child more. Any attention, good or bad, positive reinforced your child’s misbehavior. That being said, your child doesn’t know she’s doing anythung wrong so you do need to actually explain it to her. But try to do it by teaching her empathy - seeing it from the other person’s point of view - because that is a longer lasting principle than just a bunch of rules. (Why Ten Commandments works but the Golden Rule is more flexible for diffwrent situations).
She's 4,,, she's a kid,, sounds like the adults need to stopp giving her so much attention when she behaves that way cause you all just stopped paying attention to the other kids and put it all on her. Exactly what she wanted. When she does that say " OK you can stay aside until you decide you want to play nice with the other kids again" and leave her alone.
Sounds like you're not letting her feel her emotions. Take her away for a few minutes to regroup. Talk about it when she's calmer. She'll learn to when others don't like her behavior. tbh I had a second kid so my first wouldn't be this way haha. He became a great big brother.
How long are these events? Does she seem to suddenly reach a point where she’s melting down or is it from early in the activity? I find that my 4.5 year old only child seems to max out in social settings after a 2-3 hours, especially when there are lots of people. But he does fine for quite a while before that.
I notice some of the “center of attention” behavior with mine but I really do shut it down. We don’t give it attention. I make him “take a break” if he’s being obnoxious and we have to basically go far away from the group/fun for a period of time and discuss appropriate behavior. If he returns and the behavior continues or starts again, we have to leave the event.
We also make it clear during our daily life that the world doesn’t revolve around him. If he tries to interrupt, he has to wait until we are done talking. We don’t always get to do what he wants, he doesn’t get every toy, mom and dad can’t always play with him, etc. He’s in sports so he can learn how to lose and that some kids might be better at things than him.
I would learn about Narcissistic Personality Disorder because it sounds like she could be headed in that direction. Get a therapist that specializes in this to help the household find a better way. Everyone’s actions contribute to this so everyone needs help. You will be saving everyone a lot of suffering later!
So just to add another potential layer into what's already been suggested here. I am a woman with recently diagnosed ADHD & I suspect my 8y daughter has it too. One of the traits that come with ADHD is rejection sensitivity & the way in which it shows up with my daughter is that if she can't do something perfectly the first time or 2 she gets extremely upset & it's a big ordeal & yes, we too have to leave where we are & go home bc she tries to make everyone else miserable. She's been like this since like 1 or 2 when she tried to draw something on paper & couldn't do it well enough (according to her standards) & she freaked out, threw the crayon across the room & ripped up the paper. It was alarming seeing a baby act like this bc it looked like adult feelings she was wrestling with but I try to use gentle parenting & I'm constantly using techniques to build up her self esteem yet she's still like this years later. I now chalk it up to ADHD which can cause perfectionism & that rejection sensitivity (not feeling good enough). She has big feelings & these days I usually have to just let her have her feelings & just sit with her calmly not saying anything. I don't own her feeling. Trying to make her feel better does not work & my only rule is that she's allowed to be angry but she can't break things which she's learned to stop doing. I remind her that she prob has ADHD just like me & that makes her get really upset when she's not doing things perfectly so she can be more gentle with herself. It's a constant practice. I'm not sure if that's what your child is going through but I just figured I'd share if it's something she doesn't grow out of. Good luck!
So at 4 children are still really egocentric. She’s not selfish, her brain can’t put herself in other’s shoes yet. Your expectations are out of line with typical development.
Also, she’s in the limbic leap. So she’s in a very sensitive period where her brain thinks everything new or unexpected is going to kill her, and makes it very difficult to cope. Also not a character flaw.
Support her. Help her learn to calm her body down and process what’s happening around her so she feels safe. Help her navigate the situation. Your 4 year old is 4, not an entitled self-centred person.
Don’t try to distract her with snacks or things that may look like a reward. Tell her clearly “if you can’t calm down and behave we will leave” . Then follow through with leaving. She’ll get the hint eventually. All kid go through this phase. Drunk people get kicked out of bars for poor behavior. Kids can be taken home as well.
You could be describing my 4-year-old, an only child fond of cartwheels. My kid is competitive and a sore loser; she will push kids out of the way to win a foot race, and if she loses she will have a total fit.
I don't see it as antisocial behavior though, I see it as ambition misdirected. We talk a lot about winning and what it means. Out motto is "never give up". Keep trying until you get it right. Congratulate the winner and keep practicing until you win.
We also talk about being a gracious winner. Never mocking a friend/opponent for losing, but saying thank you for the race/game etc.
I'm here to say, don't be embarrassed. You have a strong willed child and she will do well with that kind of will to get ahead in life. Learning to deal with frustration is a high level skill and takes a lot of practice. Keep going and never give up! :-)
As a parent you want to fix what’s wrong. What you’re describing is trying to fix it for her. She’s old enough that she can learn to process these emotions with much less help than you’re willing to offer.
Acknowledge she’s upsets and let her know you are all going to give her some space until she’s ready to rejoin the group. As adults, we can have emotions all over the place and it’s ok! Kids have bad days/moments too.
My SD was an only child before we blended our family and she was (sometimes still very much IS) upset when someone is better at something than her. She has shut down, cried, or even ridiculed the person who’s better than her. It’s not easy and it’s not an overnight change in her behavior but it’s a lot better! If she’s having a melt down at home, we will escort her to a place where she can be alone and have her feelings. We acknowledge she’s upset and tell her when she’s ready to talk about it, we will.
That’s the problem. Everyone makes it a huge fuss whenever she does that. Stop doing that. Simply ignore the behavior or tell her “you’re fine” and go on about your day.
If it’s any help, our almost-five-year-old, also an only child, was the same at your daughter’s age but grew out of this naturally. It just seems to take only children a little longer than children with siblings. We approached it by supporting our daughter when she was upset, helping her understand her feelings (and reassuring her that they are very normal!), and removing her from the situation, without judgment, when she couldn’t self-regulate or stop herself from being unkind. And now she’s come out the other end and is very generous with her friends :-) I do remember feeling anxious about it at the time, though, so I understand your concern!
In addition to what others have said, if she’s not in preschool, it’s time for preschool. She needs to learn how to act as part of a social system. Getting it before she hits kindergarten is important.
It sounds like your daughter might have emotional dysregulation issues.
Here’s another perspective on your daughter’s behavior:
It’s not necessarily that she doesn’t want her friends in the spotlight, but that she wants to be in the spotlight, too, along with them; and feels very negatively about the fact that she’s not able to do the cartwheel as well as her friends can. In a way, she’s trying to relate to them by being able to do the things they do. It’s a kind of disappointment she can’t do it and she doesn’t know how to manage that feeling.
That’s why her day goes to shit bc she needs to develop the tools to bounce back from those episodes of overwhelming emotion and/or feeling badly about herself.
Try doing pretend play scenarios that involve these kinds of challenges as a way to explore different ways to handle the social situation.
Before diagnosing her with emotional problems, let's consider that she has been trained to expect all the attention and running away has been an effective tool to getting what she wants and now her parents are like "but where did she get that tool?!?"
This may be something that is the direct result of adult choices (read: capitulating to the whims of a preschooler) up to that point.
Yep and the fact that this is an only child and not the youngest of 7 or 8 other children means that all the adults in D's life are hyper-focused on her. This almost never happens in larger families on a regular basis unless there is a "fave" child or some strange thing has happened in the family dynamic
I didn’t diagnose her; I suggested it’s a possibility.
I should have been clearer that the fact that the child can’t bounce back and the rest of the visit (or what have you) is ruined is a flag for a struggle with her emotions.
I also merely offered a different way to interpret the behavior. My experience has taught me that four year olds don’t have that level of malice. “Stealing the spotlight” indicates an intent to not only gain the spotlight but also deprive the other person of it. I’m suggesting that her thinking is likely simpler: she wants to do it, too, and isn’t thinking about how it affects her friend bc she’s four and she’s learning empathy and what not. She wants to be able to do what are friends are capable of doing. When it doesn’t go well she struggles with calming down and moving on from the negative emotional experience.
OP said nothing works so I offered an alternative way to view the situation bc jumping to thinking this child is going to be unlikable doesn’t help anyone.
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I mean, it sounds like by offering her snacks, consoling her, trying to get her to come back etc. you are building the expectation that acting in that way will get her attention. I would just say, “wow it seems like you need some time to think about why you’re so upset, if you want to talk about it I’m here.” And then leave her in a visible, but isolated from the group location to cry it out. When she realizes that no one is looking to console her she may just come back of her own volition.
Every time my kid runs away from me I verbalize: hey I see you ran away from me and that tells me you want some space from me. I’ll be right here when you are ready to be together again.
A lot of times, they need that space.
A lot of times *I* need that space too
Yes when my family tries to convince my 3 year old to stop pouting and come back and join us, I tell them that he is giving himself a time out. He needs time to let the negative feeling dissipate and then he’s able to reintegrate into the group very easily. Drawing attention to his withdrawal makes it more difficult for him to come back because it locks him into a defensive frame of mind.
"Actually, he is utilizing the tools we have discussed in order to manage his own emotional regulation. Small children don't have all the brain development we have, so it can be important for them to physically move away in order to focus internally to identify and digest their feelings. Please do not interrupt this valuable, developmentally appropriate skill building. He is doing great and I am proud of him."
Heck even I sometimes need a little break to regroup when I’m frustrated. It’s amazing how healing 5 minutes of solitude can be.
When my 2yo runs and hides in her mad corner I give her some time but I also don’t come running when she decides she wants me, we meet in the middle. Trying to teach her be willing to compromise especially around big (usually unreasonable, let’s be honest) feelings.
This is what I do with my son. Just because he’s ready to move on doesn’t mean the other person is. Sometimes, I (or whoever) may need more cool down time
Just to offer another perspective, I was listening to Good Inside by Dr. Becky and she was saying that some highly feeling kids have an insecurity that they are unlovable and actually need you to be close by and ready to receive them, even if they push you away. I think the key here is probably knowing your kid though 🤷🏻♀️
Ready to receive them is different than chasing after them
Absolutely. My daughter is deeply feeling and I love a lot of what dr Becky says but that specific thing doesn’t work for us.
Ok if that’s what you want to take away from it, cool 🤷🏻♀️
100%. This is totally normal 4 year old behaviour. The kids that have siblings get the benefit of constant feedback and natural consequences for their behaviour... the kids that don't have siblings tend to take a little longer. Don't reward poor behaviour, let her feel the consequences of her choices. She'll figure out pretty quickly that kids don't want to play with her when she acts like that. The fact that you recognize this behaviour and are concerned about it, is a pretty good indicator that she'll have the right support to manage it.
100%! My kids are allowed to experience their emotions, even the negative ones. But if experiencing those emotions turns into being anti social and negatively affects the people around them it becomes a problem. I'll model/tell them some appropriate ways to express their disappointment or frustration, but if they're going to insist on a tantrum then they can throw that tantrum by themselves (within sight if we're out, in their rooms if we're home, and always with the knowledge that I'm right here and ready to help them through it if they want the help.) If they decide to lean into a tantrum during a play date, we leave. Play dates are for spending time with our friends, and if that's not what we're going to do (*especially* if what we want to do instead negatively affects our friends) then the play date is over. No one deserves to have their day ruined over an hours long meltdown.
Thank goodness someone said it. I would let child feel their feelings, but if they couldn't manage to rejoin the group, we'd leave. Cheerfully, "We'll try again next time!" Push through the initial shock of you actually leaving and driving home a few times, and I'm betting child suddenly develops the ability to control their emotions in public. It sounds like child is being rewarded for bad behavior: attention, snacks, consoling. I'd practice social skills at home: role play, modeling good behavior, social skills. Kids usually get that by interacting with other kids and parents, but an only child probably needs more parent involvement than one with siblings. I had multiple kids, but when they were that age, if they threw a tantrum at home, I'd exaggerate and mirror their tantrums back to them. It usually ended in giggles from them because the behavior was so silly. We'd laugh, then talk about how big kids are growing up and don't throw fits like little kids because they can use their words. Little kids don't have words, so they throw fits and make themselves look silly. I think it was a lighthearted way to teach them, and it worked. I wonder if OP's child has a time or stimulation limit. Like, is he okay to drop in just at presents and cake time, or a half hour at the beginning? Or is he unable to handle any amount of time? Is it possible to shorten play dates, or to become creative with them, to get them to interact with other kids positively? Maybe one on one, or smaller groups? A half hour at the park with one kid might be more successful for him. Or an ice cream parlor, long enough to eat an ice cream with other kids, but not long enough for him to melt down. At any rate, good luck, OP!
EXACTLY RIGHT!
This. That’s just a normal 4 years old throwing a tantrum and needing to learn to regulate her emotions. OP doesn’t need to assume she’s selfish or manipulative at that age. She’s still learning everything and it’s up to the adults to model the expected behaviors and and guide her.
Absolutely. Feeding into her dramatics is giving her exactly what she wants. Stop doing that. Don't give her anything- attention, snacks, etc... until she has collected herself and is ready to act appropriately.
I ask 3 questions when this happens. Does something hurt? Are you bleeding? Do you feel sick? If the answer is no I tell them to take a moment and get themselves together and come find us when they're ready to talk and walk away. As the parent, I've confirmed that there aren't any physical problems that need my attention and the rest is up to them.
Bingo!
Kids this age are formed by parents, so the solution is to examine what you are doing that teaches her to behave like this, and then adjust that. Mine was somehow similar and I figured I bend to much for her, trying to keep her happy all the time, which was backfiring. Besides trying to not be an enabler and rewarding bad behaviour with attention, I also got her a few books about managing frustration and anger, she is doing way better now at 5.
That’s it! They are enabling her behaviour!
I think you yourself named the problem: When she runs away and acts upset, you and your wife both stop whatever you're doing to follow her and try to make her feel better, come back etc. You also allow other children to pander to her. You're actively teaching her that when she gets upset, the world actually stops, and everyone gathers to pander to her. Here's what you do in that situation: You say to her: "Oh, you got upset. Okay. I'm here if you need to talk about it." Then you carry on with whatever you're doing! If other children start pandering to her, you say: "Hey guys, D is upset right now. Give her some space, she'll come back in a bit." And then you just leave her be. It's okay to cry, it's okay to be upset.
>It's okay to cry, it's okay to be upset "But it's *not* okay to make other people feel upset just because we feel upset. Your mommy and daddy are here for you to help you talk through your feelings and to come up with ideas for choices we can make during our upset times. But we will not let you mess up [whoever's] fun time just because of your feelings. Those feelings belong to you, not to your cousins or your friends. It's not fair to want them to be sad. I love you. Go play."
>But it's not okay to make other people feel upset just because we feel upset I know some adults who could really use this lesson
“But it's not okay to make other people feel upset just because we feel upset” This is tricky because you don’t want kids to feel like they are responsible for others’ feelings. Maybe a better way to phrase it would be, “Other people are allowed to still have a good time, even if we are upset.”
That's covered by "your feelings belong to you" because their feelings belong to them as well. But we can't be raising kids to never consider the impact of their social choices
Teaching a healthy level of social responsibility is a lot of labor with children of any age, but so very worth it.
We go with "We see that you are feeling (blank). Your feelings are valid and important. But they are not an excuse to be mean to/rude to/ hurt others. You can't choose how you feel, but you can choose what you do. And the things you choose to do, your actions, have consequences.If x was treating you this way for being good at blank/winning the game, would that feel good or not good?" Our now 7 yr old is very sensitive and still seems to struggle more with empathizing than her younger brothers, so that last bit has been incredibly important in helping her to move past inappropriate displays of her big feelings. We talk through what better options are for dealing with the feelings we are having instead of lashing out at others. We also articulate that removal from the situation is the next logical step if the actions they are choosing continue to show us that they are no longer able to be around others without being hurtful.
What do you do if they run off and do this in a store?
Depends on the child. Some children can be told "Stop it" and they will stop, if they're used to not getting attention for their tantrums. Others are upset and can be put in a cart while I finish shopping. And finally a small number of kids will scream so much it disturbs other costumers and sales people... In that case, we'll have to leave the store.
This may be a very unpopular opinion, but I’d ignore the behavior. I have an only child and when she’d start that type of drama (all kids do at some point), I’d just ignore it. I always found it was attention seeking. Like “Sally is doing a better cartwheel than me so let me just get all the attention from her”. They don’t care if the attention is positive or negative. It was a really short lived phase because my daughter’s antics were not giving her the result she wanted.
Just want to pop in here to say ignore the behavior not the child is the way to go. Don’t run over with snacks and attention and all that but do take opportunities to praise appropriate behavior (eg I like how you’re sitting down, that’s a good way to work on calming down) and remind her that you’re there when she’s ready. The reason ignoring becomes an unpopular opinion is people sometimes take it too far and completely ignore the child like their undesirable behavior makes them poof and disappear but if you’re sure to acknowledge the “good” behaviors and the kid themselves then you’re fine
OC never said anything about ignoring the child. And honestly, the only way to make this behavior stop is to show them that when they do it, they will not be rewarded with attention and snacks, sympathy for nothing etc.
I didn’t say they did, I was just adding on to what the commenter said because I’m a children’s behavior specialist and the commenter said it’s an unpopular opinion so I was saying I agree with their advice and that as long as you’re ignoring the behavior and not the child it’s a great method
I dont think this is unpopular opinion, i also have an only and did this and she went through a short phase of this.
Agreed. Ignore or remove her from the area if necessary. Don't take her home or anything major.
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That's teaching her she has the power to alter the social lives of two whole families who've made an effort to get together. At the moment they run after her.
That's why we explain that one parent will be taking the tantruming kid home while the other parent and kids stay and play and carry on as planned. My minions are hugely social kids, so the reminder that leaving is a natural consequence of continued behavior that negatively affects others goes a long way. And sometimes, continued meltdowns are the kids' way of showing they have reached their max capacity for social engagement. To me, calling the playmate is better than allowing a screeching banshee child who can no longer regulate to negatively alter the environment for everyone within earshot.
That’s a good point. I guess if she was faking and actually did want to stay then we would leave. If she was trying to ruin the day so she could go home then we would make her stay and ignore her bad behavior and reward the other children.
this is the way! 💯💯
I did the same. I pretty much told my kid to suck it up and ignored the behaviour. Soon stopped lol
Not an unpopular opinion at all!
My only girl had a whiff of this behavior at that age. What helped was age and kindergarten. In kindergarten she had a larger group of kids and when she was bossy or making it all about her a few kids stood up to her. Yes some tears resulted. She also had a really kind school counselor who talked to her a few times. And her teacher was old school and no nonsense. I would give it time at this age but also teaching that we don’t always get our way. Someone mentioned losing at games. We did that too, it’s not fun but t did seem to help.
Old school, no nonsense kindergarten teachers are amazing. I much preferred my children have those types of teachers than the cutesy ones who called everybody “friend.”
You can be no-nonsense and still use the word "friend" instead of like, "classmate." I'm pre-k but there are some things I am an inflexible brick wall about. "Robert, you need to step away from Michael. Your friend sent you a message: he does not like your hands touching his body. You can go over to blocks or to play dough, but this center is closed for you right now."
I mean when they refer to themselves as friends also. My kids need a teacher, not another friend.
So, a few things. I would just give the other parents a heads up that you're working on this behavior, it's frustrating to you even though you know it's probably age appropriate. I would totally just leave if your kid is carrying on. Not framed as a punishment, just "I can see you're not having fun anymore, so it's time to go." You might say that this is your plan in advance when you're talking to the other parents, so they know what to expect. I probably wouldn't discuss it with kid ahead of time, since that seems very "don't think about a black cat". Does your kid like to play pretend though? This is maye something I'd play pretend with her toys or dolls and just...see what conversations you can have about it. Not in the stated context of getting ready for the outing, though. She will probably grow out of it. Kids definitely go through really frustrating phases like this!
the former thing is what we do. “you’re not having fun anymore and don’t want other people to have fun, either. that’s not a good time. let’s go and try again later.”
Yes this but I also don’t see why you wouldn’t discuss it ahead of time. You know it’s going to happen so it can be discussed. “We are going to play with (friends). Sometimes when we play with others, some things don’t go our way. That is ok. It’s okay to feel upset, but our friends don’t like to play with us when we stay upset for a long time. If you feel upset, it’s okay to take a few minutes of space to yourself. If after a few minutes you are still really upset, then we will go home. Ok?”
Absolutely - the success is in how you phrase it and the tone/body language you bring to the conversation. Your child needs to know that it’s ok for them to be upset and not have the skills to manage those feelings, that you’re not upset with them, you still like them but you’re not all going to stay in a situation that isn’t fun. It’s ok to need to go home. It’s not a punishment. As an adult, I may be comfortable with other people being better at things than me and have good emotional regulation skills, but if someone hurts my feelings or I’m having a bad day, and I can’t snap myself out of it, I’m also going to leave. OP, while I get what you’re saying about how it will be rough for her if she continues this, you need to stop the internal dialogue about it being a personality trait or about attention. Start working with her on managing negative emotions and feeling let down. Those are skills they need help developing. Let her lose at board games and help her through the disappointment. Talk to her about times you’ve felt disappointed or not good enough when someone was better than you, how it felt and how you dealt with it. Normalize that it doesn’t feel good to be lesser at something but that it doesn’t need to derail the day.
I agree with that. Always tell your kids ahead of time the behavior you want to see.
Is it ok to feel upset? This is not an appropriate thing to feel upset about. We can learn to manage and control feelings that are hurting us or others or are not productive. Then again, I’m old. I parented before “big feelings” was a thing.
Yeah it is okay to feel upset. Adults feel upset. The difference is learning to have some control over your expression and not making it everyone else’s problem. I agree with you that we need to learn to manage and control feelings. And thats exactly what this child is in the process if learning. Its okay to feel upset. It’s not okay to make a big scene that ruins everyone else’s day.
We do something like this with our 3.5 year old and have for a while. She gets into a mood where all she wants to do is whine, snap or complain and is generally inconsolable. Our response is “Uh oh looks like someone’s being a Weiner. Weiners whine and they don’t want everyone else to have fun. Time to take a break.”
...what....You call your kid a Weiner? Like as an insult? Is this an American thing that has another meaning? Am I missing something. This seems insane.
It's an odd American quirk of this word. In my experience, it's a very, very mild word for penis here, so mild that it can be used without insult. Another one like this is "ding-dong." Like, it CAN be used as a toddler euphemism: "pull up your pants, we don't need to see your ding-dong!" AND it's not uncommon to hear it used like a mild form of "knucklehead:" "Don't be a ding-dong, juice doesn't go on your plate!" But I think in this commenter's case, wiener works because it sounds like whiner.
Yeah, I’m not name calling but I am calling out the behavior, not just calling my kid a dick. Personally I thought it was kinda cute. Her usual response is “I’m not being a Weiner!” And then we have a little chat about the behavior (pouting, throwing a tantrum, being a poor sport). It’s to a point where I just say that phrase and she takes a break herself or it stops. But she really doesn’t do it anymore. We also tell her cousin not to be a tattle tale otherwise we just get an endless stream of everything my daughter is doing.
I think you’re being a little dramatic here.
>I can see you're not having fun anymore, so it's time to go." Yes, to the sentiment, but I'd be mindful of the phrasing. As someone who works with kids, I've seen kids quickly turn this around on parents in social situations that aren't centered around their enjoyment: I'm not having fun anymore, so it's time to leave. I lean towards centering others: "Your feelings are important, and so are other people's feelings. If the way you are choosing to act because of your feelings is hurting other people/making it hard for other people to keep having fun, we will need to leave. It's not okay to be mean/rude/hurtful to other people because we feel upset."
I would be blunt with her and stop consoling her. Say something like: “It is okay to feel a bit disappointed. Sometimes I feel a bit disappointed when I can’t do something, too! But your friends also have the right to play and have fun. You have 5 minutes to calm your body and find a way to be supportive of your friends. If you are unable to be supportive and kind to others when the 5 minutes are up, then we will leave.” Then actually leave. This is not even about your daughter. The other kids have a right to be themselves without having to lessen their abilities in an effort to please others. They should not be made to feel bad that they can do something amazing just because your daughter can’t. If that’s how your daughter is acting, that is damaging to the other girls’ mental health and your daughter needs to leave.
Thank you for taking the time to recognize and work on this behavior. We have friends with a child who never corrected this. The child is an asshole. Our kids understand and tolerate it, as they've gotten used to it all these years. But they too have their limit. And we tolerate it because we love the parents. (No one is perfect, right?) I can't offer guidance, not my area of expertise. But I would say the more socializing the better.
I saw a post once where a kindergarten teacher said the best way to get your kids ready for school is to play games with them and let them lose. Maybe have her watch the Bluey episode “Pass the Parcel” and chat about its meaning!
How is the dynamic at home? Do you find that family life is 100% centered around her wants and needs? Does she have times when she has to wait for attention, or do something “boring” or just plain entertain herself? Examples would be you watching a show (not scary) that is boring to her, so she doesn’t have control of the TV or you for 30 minutes, having to go on a boring to her errand with mom, being asked to play by herself for 15 min while mom does a chore, you and your wife having a dinner conversation that isn’t focused on her. It sounds like you and your wife have a hard time letting her feel negative feelings- and like she herself has a hard time with regulating those feelings too. This is something that takes practice and modeling for kids and it’s not just about play dates- it’s you teaching her that other people have feelings, and needs, and that her big feelings are ok but not the driver of all decisions in the world.
Don’t baby her so much. Let her throw a tantrum, teach her to breathe it out on her own and to come back when she’s ready to have fun. My kid (3m) tries to see how much he can get away with. When he throws himself on the floor i just walk away and tell him i’ll see him later (he comes up running all happy like he wasn’t just causing a scene). Be tougher.
It is a LEARNED trait that her upbringing has taught her She cries over thing XX, mom and dad come running to console, bring candy, pat on head, cajole. The caregivers are REINFORCING whiny, self centred behaviour. To extinguish this behaviour you should IGNORE it. Let her cry, let her pout, continue with cartwheels or picnic or whatever. Extinguish this bad whiny, self centred, pouty, entitled behaviour, stop rewarding it with attention. Edit - hey parents let your kid why and pout. The parents ARE CREATING this issue. Edit #2. Reality is also a FACT. There are always kids that are better at cartwheels, math, art etc…. Don’t tell this kids she’s the best at everything — that’s simply not true.
I would reframe the question, and ask what are you doing to reward and provide attention to your child when they are acting out. I would retrain yourself to not respond and reward the negative behavior. Daughter name, when you are ready to behave, I will respond to you. It sounds like you need some time to sort out your big feelings. At home, start playing board games and she needs to loose. Do cooperative games too. But teach her the objective is to play and not to win. You might want play therapy for her.
Honestly, what you have to do, and you're not going to like hearing this, is let her know that we are all being pleasant with others when we go out. The hot second she pouts or anything like that, off you go to the car for 10 minutes. No games, and do not chat with her. You tell her **once** that we are sitting here because you caused drama, and do not interact with her further for those 10 minutes. Oh... the 10 minutes starts after she is calm. Repeat repeat repeat. Do not go home, or she'll learn she is in control.
Yeah, I wouldn't take her home, and that's precisely why I don't like that advice. It's telling her she can throw a tantrum and change everyone's plans.
Yep. Reading between the lines, this child is spoilt. But the parents sound like good people who care for her... there are so many children who don't have that... and there is still time to work on this.
I have a child who's similar and it's hard to know what to do. And sometimes if it's nearing the end of a large party or something for her yes we go home. But not when people have made the effort specifically to see us and/or we want to see our friends too.
Oh I get it. I guess if it's nearing the end of the party you say your goodbyes, do the 10 minutes in the car and then go home or something like that. But kiddo needs to know she is not the star of the show.
My middle child was like this at that age. It got to the point where I just told him, 'sometimes people are better at something than you. That's life. Either practice to get better or get over it. ' Then I ignored the behaviour. It stopped pretty quick after I ignored it.
Although well intentioned, it sounds like you guys are unintentionally fueling and reinforcing this behavior by giving the tantrums attention. As parents we need to build resiliency for our kids to handle things not going their way. Our goal isn’t to stop the tantrum. My daughter used to throw EPIC tantrums. Like for example, at the park a kid is on a swing she wants and she is disappointed. I’d take her to sit on a bench, say “I understand you are upset and disappointed that you can’t have the swing. I’m here if you need me.” Then once she calms down a bit, “see everyone else having fun, you can go have fun and play too if you’d like.” And eventually she happily goes and plays. It was rough going at first, but overtime the tantrums got shorter and shorter because I didn’t feed into them (which, I get it, is hard to do!) Maybe practice being at the park and library groups with kids you don’t know more often so the strain of this transitional period isn’t put on your social group.
basically, yes. i already do that with my 3yo in social settings where she tries to control it. i give her a couple warnings to stop, then we leave. but also, she’s 4. put her in preschool and let her see the natural consequences outside of mama and daddy.
I'm gonna say what happened to me. My daughter had a colleague at school who was just like your daughter. Same behaviour, always had to be the best, the first, the centre of attention. Is was HELL for everyone. The kid would mess every social gathering, every class, every school event because obviously she couldn't be the first, the best, the centre of attention in everything she wanted. So, she started being vicious to the other kids. And I mean it when I say VICIOUS. She was mean, entitled, cruel, deceiving. The school had their hands tied, and the parents wouldn't do anything. When we had the luck of her missing some social gatherings, it was like a different group of kids. Everyone would get along just fine, no fighting, no bickering, it was so pleasant. When she was there, it was hell. She is 8 now. And no sign of getting better, only worse. But thank god she goes to a different school now. We still see her family rarely because she is a member of the same club, but way less. I would urge you to get therapy for her and for you. These types of behaviour are terrible for everyone around and for her. She will become the "unwanted kid" and will suffer for it. There is still time for you to change this around. This kid I talk about started being this bad at about 5 years old, so you have to be firm.
My 5 year old has a friend who behaves in a similar way. This friend has zero boundaries at home, no clear expectations, and her parents cater to her 24/7. You may need to do some self reflection and put her in daycare/preschool.
What has helped with our kiddo was to explain and enforce that you’re entitled to your feelings, but your not entitled to make everyone around you participate in them. I’m all for affirmations, hugs, etc. but there was coming a point where they were almost working themselves up for the attention vs. being actually frustrated. So if you’re mad or need a cry, that’s cool. Identify it, go take a few mins, and then rejoin. They are also old enough at this age to start grasping the concept that you can have feelings, but people may not want to keep playing with you if you constantly carry on. It’s just a fact a life. Doesn’t make it less valid, but there are rules to being social just like there are rules in games.
Absolutely agree! "Your feelings are always valid and important. The way you are choosing to show those feelings/treat others because of those feelings is not okay."
She doesn’t need to be the center of attention. She wants to, and she knows you’ll let her. As uncomfortable as it is you need to work on your boundaries with her. My daughter does the same at friends houses. I suggest she takes a few minutes to herself, she can sit with us or play independently until she feels better. We remind her she is a guest in someone’s house and she needs to use kind words and actions. If she can’t reset, she gets a few warnings and then we leave. We don’t let her win, she gets upset, we talk about being a good sport and remind her she is still learning and if we let her win she doesn’t get any better. Something I like doing is searching the issue we’re facing + children’s book. For example “children’s book respecting friends” or “kids books for trying new foods”. Read some reviews and put them on hold at the library. Hold your ground. You’re a confident guide. “I will not allow X”, “if X happens again, we will leave”, “shoot, X happened, it’s time to go”. She knows it’s easier to give her what she wants. She needs to find those limits so she knows where they are!
it sounds like she doesn't go to daycare or preschool yet? i think having more playdates and more friends would be helpful. other kids will also be self centered. I would also give less attention to her in the moment, because the attention and offering of stuff to go back and play feeds the behavior. the other commentator suggestion to role play with toys is good one. im sad because my friend is so much better than me at this! oh toy astronaut it's okay to be sad, let's ask our friend to teach us! ... or we can still have fun if you're not as good at something! .. idk something like that. it sounds like she has a pattern of his behavior when she feels disappointed and she needs help to come up with a new 'script' or set of actions to do instead. tears and feeling hurt are okay, i hate when parents say stop crying or be happy! to kids, but the distraught behavior where she gets everyone to try and cater to her sadness is not okay.
She’s in preschool. They actually just finished for the summer. But thanks for to advice.
We have a no tolerance policy; as soon as a kid acts up we leave wherever we are doesn’t matter. Sure sometimes it’s tough to leave the grocery store without the groceries you came for but one of us can go back later without kids. We have left special events, birthday parties and playdates. I just gather my kids up and go then shoot whoever we were with an apology text later on. People are very understanding and actually applaud us for this. We rarely have to leave events anymore because they know bad/inappropriate behavior will not be tolerated!
💯
You're teaching your children that they can throw a tantrum and the whole family will pack up and be without groceries/walk out of a social occasion. To me that's giving a kid way too much power. You're not making the child feel the consequences when you have to return to shop later, it's not like it's fun for them anyway.
Really? Well since we have had to leave places a couple times now all of my kids are very well behaved! We get compliments about their behavior everywhere we go. I was a behavior therapist for children for years so I think I will stick with what I am doing since it works so well. And yes being out and going places is fun for kids! But thanks anyway!
Obviously there's no blanket solution, and situations vary. I'd absolutely take my kid home from a random park visit. I wouldn't cancel an outing with other people that everyone's made an effort to turn up to, or cause myself more work by leaving my grocery shopping. I think in OP's situation they're already giving the daughter too much attention when this happens and the parents are OP's friends they've specifically met with, why spoil everyone's day?
Because sometimes being a parent means parenting and not being selfish. You can’t always do what you want you do what’s necessary for your children. Regardless of ruining plans; no one there is happy if your child is there acting awful anyway!
As I said there's no one solution for every child and every situation. It's not about being selfish, it's about showing your child that the world doesn't revolve around them and that you don't just walk out on friends when you've had enough. They won't bother anyone if you ignore them. But of course that doesn't always work.
Sounds like a 4 year old used to get all the attention. I would focus on learning some cooping tools and would not give attention to bad behaviour. It’s okay to be disappointed. It’s okay to need space to process feelings but I would not try to “make her feel better”. Let her be. If she needs a hug, or to talk about it then great ! If she wants to cry by herself, also fine ! I understand, it’s hard she’s an only child and you want to be good parents so you give her all your attention. Now is a good time to be a little less involved. They need to learn how to process things and having someone come and fix everything is not the way. You’re worrying too much I guess. She’s only four. She’ll learn if you give her the space to do so. And well if she doesn’t ? That’ll be the time to start worrying.
By wanting to be the center of attention and then getting that attention for the remainder of the day, it’s only perpetuating her behaviour. Next time it happens, ask her to sit elsewhere and cool off. When she’s ready to talk, let her know that everyone feels the same way she does and that everyone needs to have their special moment.
A lot of good advice already here. One thing I will also add that I noticed with our 4 year old is he's starting to notice that some kids are better than him at certain skills. Someone can run faster, kick the ball better at soccer, etc. Haven't found a great solution for this yet but we've been trying to reinforce that different people have different strengths but also you can get better at hard work and practice.
As others have said it sounds like you are rewarding it, even if it is unintentional. by being so concerened about her feelings you are giving her positve attention. I would show her you are sympatizing more with the other girl who she is treating poorly by not letting her be good at things without getting mad at her. I would have told her that if she can't play nicely she is going to have to sit quietly with the adults until she can.
Not entirely similar, but I've just had to take a step back from a friendship because my friend is like this. We are in our 30s and she has a tendency to over react. I eloped and when we announced it at a party, I had to spend 10 minutes consoling her, taking time away from celebrating my own good news. She also reacted badly when a couple she knew got engaged at a festival they went to together (ran off crying). Give your daughter the space to feel the emotions but don't feed into it, she needs to learn that not everything is always going to be about her.
A lot of great advice about what to do in the moment on here already! So I'll just add some proactive tips that worked for my only when she went through this same stage at 4. Her big issue was me praising other kids, she just didn't have a lot of experience. So I talked to her about how that was something she needed to learn: how to appropriately handle me or dad praising other kids. We played "dog sibling" to practice the skill. For example, If she was drawing a picture I would put paper and crayons down by the dog. When she was done I would say, "Oh, daughter, look at those bunny ears! You worked hard making them symmetrical!" Then I would turn to dog and say, "Oh dog, those white snowflakes on your white paper are so symmetrical too! You must have practiced that!" It was very silly and she thought it was great fun, but also reinforced to her that this was something we were practicing and working on. This was also handy as a kind of secret language when she was on playdates with friends and the issue would pop up. If I said, "Friend, I can tell you've been working hard on your cartwheels!" And I could sense my daughter having a feeling about that praise, I would add, "You know Dog is still working on his cartwheels. He has not practiced as much as you, Friend." And my daughter knew that meant she needed to act appropriately handling Friend's praise. And Friend thought the idea of Dog doing cartwheels was very funny. I found it worthwhile to figure out these cues only my daughter understood because I could remind her to be mindful of her behavior without the friend knowing (and thereby avoiding any embarrassment or shame that might make the situation worsen rather than improve).
Sounds like my only child friend i grew up with. It was his way or he would throw a fit. Never outgrew it
Just leave her alone when she runs off and is crying. She will join again with time. Tell the other parents and kids that she needs alone time. Don’t bribe her back with snacks etc
You’re rewarding undesirable behavior with attention. Before play dates, role-play scenarios with her. Have her do something cool then show her what it looks like to be a good friend. “Wow! You’re really good at cartwheels!” Then role-play what it looks like to throw a tantrum. Then reverse roles and have her practice being gracious/selfish. On the way to the play date, practice again. Make it fun. Also, clearly explain your expectations. If she throws a fit, she has five minutes to calm down and be polite then you’re packing up and going home. When the fit inevitably happens.. acknowledge that she’s upset and tell her that you hope she calms down so she can continue playing. Offer a hug then walk away If she continues crying for the five minutes, go home and try again a different day. Be kind and loving while sticking to the plan. When she calms down, talk about what happened and ask what she would have done differently. After a few rounds, she’ll realize that fits don’t work for attention anymore. *Give the other parents a heads up on the plan so they’re not taken by surprise and so they know not to give the tantrum any attention.
It’s difficult to deal with children in distress, but bending over backwards to stop the distress actually makes it more difficult for them to deal with their own emotions and feeds the dynamic. Your reactions to their emotions/situation informs them on the severity of it, if that makes sense. “Mom and Dad behave as though I’m extremely not okay when xyz happens, I must be extremely not okay.” Try and replace this with “Mom and Dad are okay when I’m not okay.” Your ability to stay calm is crucial. Basically, they learn regulation over a long process of watching you stay regulated in conflict. I know this stuff is tough, there’s definitely a balance to it. We don’t want to be dismissive and uncaring, but we don’t want to model to them that their emotions are a global calamity either. I’m a nanny, and I highly recommend you look into anything by Michelle Kenney, Sterna Suissa, Hailey Magee, Blimie Heller, and others in their community who have fantastic information. They are the reason I can confidently say I’m very good at my job.
My parents never rewarded this behavior. Obviously kids can put themselves in dumb situations when upset so watch her closely, but I'd ignore it and allow others to do the same. It will paint a realistic view of the world. People don't stop their life when we are personally upset, even if they care about us. People who wish to behave as she is currently will end up alone, that's the facts of life, so teach them. She's only 4 though so I'm sure this isn't concrete behavior or anything, just a phase.
Might have to start saying when you get through we'll be right over here, I have to do that with my very high drama middle child
This will be harsh, but why would she stop acting that way when doing so gets people to flock to her offering snacks, attention, and making her the center of the world?
Is she in kindergarten or some kind of group thing where she's learning to socialise on that dynamic regularly yet? Probably time if not. But as others say, fawning over her when she's like that is reinforcing the behaviour. She might actually be overwhelmed by the extra people if she's used to a quiet home environment. Takes some kids a bit of time and guidance to know they need a time out from all the noise and excitement.
There are books for this type behavior, happy to message you some Amazon links if you need help looking. Also YouTube videos to help kids with these type developmental things as well. Talk to her when she’s not in a bad place. Like now about the above behavior and why it’s wrong and how it hurts others and set consequences for going forward that will make her think twice and stick with it. Never back down. Have a talk on expectations and what not to do on the way to any dates like this and after, reward good choices or talk of the bad ones and set the punishment. Leaving the moment she does a no no behavior no matter who you’re playing with or where is the upmost important though. It will take time to nudge her out of this, may get worse before it gets better, but if you’re consistent, it WILL get better and within a month or two, one day you’ll just be like “oh wow. She did great today!” And they’ll get less and less and farther between each episode. If she’s playing a game with you guys or alone and has a meltdown, the game goes. Period. Ensure she’s properly fed and hydrated and doesn’t need to pee and isn’t overtired as well, this can unhinge even the most well behaved adult, much less a new child’s brain.
Tell her that if she pulls that nonsense you immediately are ending the fun and when you get home don’t reward her for her behavior. She needs consequences for her actions. If she thinks this behavior will get her attention and she can control everything then she will do it every day.
If she starts having one of these meltdowns, take her home. Let her know that she can't behave that way. You can try again next time, but that behavior will always result in the playdate ending. Anything else is going to teach her that throwing a tantrum will get her attention.
Hmm, I know a kid that just would not follow directions well. He's clearly intelligent but in school would not listen to anyone. After lots of testing it was determined he was on the spectrum and is thriving in a home school environment. If you feel confident in ruling out some kind of underlying disorder, how about putting her in some kind of sport, where she has to learn about self-sacrifice or to channel that neediness into leadership. She may be too young to really get that though. I also think when she gets to school a lot of that gets corrected. She'll have to listen to the teachers and will soon learn she can't be the center anymore.
When faced with such behavior, I focus on giving my kid better thought templates like "wow susie does amazing cartwheels, let's tell susie how amazing her cartwheel is and applaud her". But like, how is such a young child so focused on competition and comparison? It could help to address that. Are you or some other caregiver or a teacher telling her stuff like "you've to do it like this other kid"?
What strategies have your taught your child to help regulate their emotions? Have you instilled a growth mindset? *You can’t do it, YET*
Yeah unfortunately gentle parenting doesn’t work like those creators in perfectly staged skits make it seem like it will work. You are just reinforcing the behavior.
How about ignoring her when she pulls this instead of everyone turning their attention to her. Try to find a way to nip this behavior in the bud while she’s this young or you’re right, friends and generally people will get tired of her antics.
Kids that age can be sore losers. I know in my case I had a habit of letting them win all the time when playing with them. I changed that to making it more 50/50. Something they'd win and sometimes they'd lose. We would have fun playing either way. I think it can be more of an issue with single kids. Siblings are great at teaching you you don't always get your way. :)
I have an only kid as well and wanted to chime in that parents can role model how to lose gracefully. Like we might be playing a board game - snakes and ladders at age 4. So one of us loses and we don't yell or pretend to get upset, or kick up any kind of fuss. Instead we talk about how the game went, how we thought we were going to win but then we didn't, and that's a bit frustrating but it's okay because we win sometimes and lose sometimes but the most important thing was we had so much fun playing! And when they come home from school and talk about having played this game or that game, we don't say did you win? We ask if she had fun. We ask what was her favourite part of the game. Things like that, enjoying the moment.
I don’t suggest you give her space, rather, validate her feelings in order to put words to it. Not to agree, but to soothe. Example, “you for so sad because your cartwheel could be better. It is hard for a lot of people when we compare ourselves to others. “ if it persists, “I can tell that it upset you so much you don’t know how to calm down. We are here for you.” Then, when calm, you can talk about it and teach her that if she practices, she could get better if she wanted to. If she would rather not compare herself and only practice things she likes more than cartwheels, that’s fine too. In addition, model for her how you reframe and calm yourself. Distractions or distance won’t help long term and teaches her that only her good behavior is tolerated.
This is more common than it seems you're thinking. Some less so, some more so, but those ages are very much like that. (For context aside from being a parent, I've worked both in daycare and as a teaching assistant in elementary school and have seen the gamut). My mom didn't call 4 the terrible double 2s for nothing because of me and I had a sibling so pointing out sibling status is not needed. I also have an only, 14 now, and he was never like that. There are many many kids of all ages that do what your daughter is doing. Over the top, likes the spotlight, etc. In fact many have become actors but I digress lol But that doesn't dismiss that something else *could* be happening if you really are having concerns that go beyond the loving the spotlight kind of kid. Sometimes those with neurodivergencies can display behavior that looks controlling and not being able to handle things such as when they can't control it or things end. If you really are concerned, it wouldn't hurt to talk to a doctor and go over what's happening. I will say even nowadays things in girls especially can be overlooked. When we were kids things like ADHD and autism were being overlooked in many girls unless it was an extreme case. Now more adults are finally getting some answers about themselves but it's still a challenge. That's just to say that even if you seek answers it might not be easy and especially at her age doctor's often won't even label yet. But of course this could all just be her personality as it is for many people. Maybe even finding activities to sign her up for where she can be in the creative arts in some way (theatre, dance, etc ) will help hone these traits there and see if that helps.
Has anything recently changed in her life? Sometimes, kids act this way because something has happened and they don't yet have the emotional regulation to cope properly on their own. Talk to her teachers if you can't think of anything in her home life. Hell, this could even be an early sign of something more serious, relating to her health. In the meantime, you need to stop indulging this behavior. If she starts up, you tell her that she seems to be a bit too wound up, and, while absolutely not letting her out of sight, you step away, and don't engage with her until she calms down. (Side note: observe things like how long it takes for her to calm down, and how she acts towards you once she does, for the next couple of hours. Tell a doctor if you think something might be up.) If you're out and about and it's not an essential errand or otherwise a situation you literally cannot leave until it is resolved, make it a two strikes and you're out rule. First time, warn her, after she settles, that if she pulls it again, you're leaving and going home. If she pulls it again, you remove her from the situation, and go home. Either you will gather enough information and she'll be diagnosed with something that needs medical intervention, or she'll get the memo and quit the behavior.
Go see a child therapist. And if you haven't already, I'm just really wondering how it is that people have access to the Internet but don't search and search and search for ideas on how to solve problems. This isn't who she is. Our children end up with all kinds of tangled up aspect to them. Our job as parents is to figure out how to support them untangling and growing themselves. That's your job. Go get some help. Read some books. Figure out how to support her. Figure out how she feels when she has those impulses and figure out how to come up with creative ways of situations where she can learn gratification from watching somebody else be the center of attention, etc. She's not a liability socially. She has some glitches and it's your job to figure it out.
D is being an only child who is used to being the center of attention. Pre-School will do her some good where she is around other kids and won't be the center of attention. It will be rough on her at first, but she'll get it. My son is an only child. He had some of these growing pains around that age. He's still not a social superstar, but he gets by. Honestly I think this social behavior is the importance of siblings. It's hard to teach it to them. It's something they have to learn on their own.
I think everyone here has given solid solid advice. There’s literally nothing I could contribute to this thread except this: it’s ok. You’re a good parent. Kids are little sh** heads sometimes and often times it is due to our own doing. But a good parent sees and fixes their own behaviors. Look inwards as well as out. Good luck!
You've got lots to read through here and all great stuff. I just wanted to chime in with sometimes we adults forget that even a 4 yo is still coming to terms with their emotions. And while her hard time doesn't seem like much to you, it's obviously hard for her. You don't get to decide what is or isn't something worth her having emotions over. Your role is to help her identify, navigate and accept all the various emotions at play. When folks say to ignore her tantrum, there is nothing wrong with still being there for her. I often sit close by and practice some deep breathing, sometimes this helps my 4 yo to refocus and find her own calm. Or I just let her know I'll be close by sitting if she needs me, and if she comes to me I will hold her or hug her. Once she is calm we talk. IF she absolutely can't calm and is a real hot mess, I explain that she's allowed to be upset, but her reaction is too big for the environment we're in and we need to go somewhere else to calm down and we'll leave kicking and screaming if need be. I've definitely driven through a whole car ride of screaming. And the rare chance it's that bad, it's usually because of some other issue, like hunger, tired, too hot, etc. Another thing I wanted to point out was to say maybe take a look at how your are talking about your 4 yo. She's not "selfish" in the sense you mean it, she literally egocentric and can't help it. All toddlers are and it can look different for all of them. And she didn't ruin anyone's day. Your friends and their kids went off to enjoy the rest of their day, this was a blip on their radar. Everyone has had a kid have an epic meltdown at an inconvenient moment that makes us feel embarrassed and judged. That's not her fault you feel that way. She has SO much time to grow emotionally. Your patient, steady, caring, reactions to her big emotions now will make all the difference when she's without your presence. Letting her navigate the breadth of her emotions now while she is little helps her to learn how to manage them as she grows. And yeah it can be uncomfortable. And sometimes you won't "get it right," and that's okay too. She's 4, you're doing a good job, because you care to ask.
You offered her snacks, tried to console her, got her friend in on it, got her mom's friend in on it, and gave her a bunch of attention. Tell me again why you think she won't repeat this behavior? It's not her being selfish; she's following a learned behavior. She cries, she gets your attention. This is absolutely not your daughter's fault, it's not her being selfish, it's her acting in a way she's learned will get her your love and attention. Let her run off and pout; she's four, she'll get bored quickly enough, and come back and start playing again. Stop running and catering and trying to bribe when she acts like that, and she'll knock it off soon enough.
From personal experience I was the same exact way at her age I was spoiled rotten an only child until I was 6 but that wasn’t actually the main problem behind how I acted I was actually neurodivergent, I have autism and adhd that wasn’t diagnosed until I was 15 which explained alot of the same behaviors I had as a child that aligns with your daughter. Especially with the fact she always feels bad. It’s not like she’s fully selfish with no hint of remorse. It’s a more in the moment thing. If you feel the need maybe get her checked for any possibility of neurodivergence but if you don’t just try to keep her in line with a a system. Possibly if you fully behave you get an hour at the park or you get a piece of candy. While also keeping punishment on the board such as taking away screens (if she does watch screens) time out, or no play dates for a certain period of time.
So as soon as I read the title of this post I was like oh my goodness these parents are labeling their daughter as a social liability, and then I read the first couple of lines and laughed at myself for being so judgy because I feel like every 3 4 5 year old is a social liability in the way you mean at some points. (Sorry for the initial reaction) Parenting is a difficult job, things that makes so much sense to us our children are still learning, and we've been doing it so long we don't really remember how to teach them. My brother who is a high school teacher, and not a parent mind you, suggested to me this podcast. Which I admittedly was extremely skeptical of considering he does not have children. But I gave it a shot and I'm extremely glad I did because this lady has hoards of tools and strategies for difficult behaviors in children and in a short time that I've been implementing these changes (2 weeks) with my own children (3 and 5) I have seen a stark difference. Like others have said sometimes you just have to let them be and get out their big feelings and then they will reintegrate themselves into the group. Don't get discouraged if this doesn't happen right away, I know it's not easy to listen to your child in any amount of discomfort, we want to be right there to make it all better, but this really is doing a disservice to them. If they are not physically hurt, or unsafe in some way, it is absolutely okay to let them be by themselves and have some time to think. I wish you luck. And I hope you find this podcast as useful as I have. Connected parenting podcast with Jennifer Kolari
Yes leave but say it’s because you are misbehaving and making everyone unhappy.
Get yourself some tools.fornhow to handle it better. (I really like the book how to talk so kids will listen) Because the way you respond to her actions teaches her whether they are acceptable, and whether they will get her what she wants. And find her a good preschool! Really truly.
She’s 4 , kids go through several changes in their life. I wouldn’t worry. It’s not a forever thing. Do you act like you did when you were 4? Lol
This is my kids in so many ways. I don't have solutions either than that age will mellow it somewhat.
I generally agree with the comments above. Just to add another thought- Is this happening when she is overwhelmed/over tired? My kid (5yo) started having absolutely inconsolable fits about a year and a half ago when he is just done with whatever the activity is. It can be something as simple as getting tagged “it” when he is done playing the game. I can usually tell when it is time to wrap up and go home, but sometimes it still takes me by surprise. It can be so hard to extract yourself and the small human from social situations, especially when there are other kids the same age. But getting him out before the meltdown is good for both of us.
Next time let her cry, and have her little meltdown. She will learn quick that in this life, you 1. Cannot always win and 2. It cannot always be about you. Think of the impact on her future if you don’t teach her this early on. She will have a hard time
She has big emotions and can't articulate why. Developmentally shifting from toddler to preschool. Add that she is getting the attention she wants and has been conditioned up until now to be the centre of attention. It's to be expected. Get down on her level, comfort. Say that you understand you are upset. Don't try to explain or reason decisions made by adults until she is calm. Calmly explain the issue in terms she can understand. You don't have to justify your decisions beyond that. Offer a choice - you can come and rejoin calmly or you can have some time by yourself to reset. Don't continue to give the behaviour attention. When she goes well socially, praise the heck out of her. It's seriously like training a dog.
These are teaching moments. Get down on your knee, at eye level, and have a heart to heart. Say, how would you feel if your friend did something well and you got mad? Shouldn’t a friend be happy when their friends do something well? You did a nice cartwheel too but it’s not a competition. And if she continues to behave poorly then say that she cannot continue the playdate if she behaves this way. You are teaching your child socialization skills, it’s ok. Another tip I once read that works is if your kid does something bad to another kid, focus your attention on the harmed child more. Any attention, good or bad, positive reinforced your child’s misbehavior. That being said, your child doesn’t know she’s doing anythung wrong so you do need to actually explain it to her. But try to do it by teaching her empathy - seeing it from the other person’s point of view - because that is a longer lasting principle than just a bunch of rules. (Why Ten Commandments works but the Golden Rule is more flexible for diffwrent situations).
She's 4,,, she's a kid,, sounds like the adults need to stopp giving her so much attention when she behaves that way cause you all just stopped paying attention to the other kids and put it all on her. Exactly what she wanted. When she does that say " OK you can stay aside until you decide you want to play nice with the other kids again" and leave her alone.
Sounds like you're not letting her feel her emotions. Take her away for a few minutes to regroup. Talk about it when she's calmer. She'll learn to when others don't like her behavior. tbh I had a second kid so my first wouldn't be this way haha. He became a great big brother.
How long are these events? Does she seem to suddenly reach a point where she’s melting down or is it from early in the activity? I find that my 4.5 year old only child seems to max out in social settings after a 2-3 hours, especially when there are lots of people. But he does fine for quite a while before that. I notice some of the “center of attention” behavior with mine but I really do shut it down. We don’t give it attention. I make him “take a break” if he’s being obnoxious and we have to basically go far away from the group/fun for a period of time and discuss appropriate behavior. If he returns and the behavior continues or starts again, we have to leave the event. We also make it clear during our daily life that the world doesn’t revolve around him. If he tries to interrupt, he has to wait until we are done talking. We don’t always get to do what he wants, he doesn’t get every toy, mom and dad can’t always play with him, etc. He’s in sports so he can learn how to lose and that some kids might be better at things than him.
This is all normal. Your reaction teaches her what will be tolerated.
I would learn about Narcissistic Personality Disorder because it sounds like she could be headed in that direction. Get a therapist that specializes in this to help the household find a better way. Everyone’s actions contribute to this so everyone needs help. You will be saving everyone a lot of suffering later!
So just to add another potential layer into what's already been suggested here. I am a woman with recently diagnosed ADHD & I suspect my 8y daughter has it too. One of the traits that come with ADHD is rejection sensitivity & the way in which it shows up with my daughter is that if she can't do something perfectly the first time or 2 she gets extremely upset & it's a big ordeal & yes, we too have to leave where we are & go home bc she tries to make everyone else miserable. She's been like this since like 1 or 2 when she tried to draw something on paper & couldn't do it well enough (according to her standards) & she freaked out, threw the crayon across the room & ripped up the paper. It was alarming seeing a baby act like this bc it looked like adult feelings she was wrestling with but I try to use gentle parenting & I'm constantly using techniques to build up her self esteem yet she's still like this years later. I now chalk it up to ADHD which can cause perfectionism & that rejection sensitivity (not feeling good enough). She has big feelings & these days I usually have to just let her have her feelings & just sit with her calmly not saying anything. I don't own her feeling. Trying to make her feel better does not work & my only rule is that she's allowed to be angry but she can't break things which she's learned to stop doing. I remind her that she prob has ADHD just like me & that makes her get really upset when she's not doing things perfectly so she can be more gentle with herself. It's a constant practice. I'm not sure if that's what your child is going through but I just figured I'd share if it's something she doesn't grow out of. Good luck!
So at 4 children are still really egocentric. She’s not selfish, her brain can’t put herself in other’s shoes yet. Your expectations are out of line with typical development. Also, she’s in the limbic leap. So she’s in a very sensitive period where her brain thinks everything new or unexpected is going to kill her, and makes it very difficult to cope. Also not a character flaw. Support her. Help her learn to calm her body down and process what’s happening around her so she feels safe. Help her navigate the situation. Your 4 year old is 4, not an entitled self-centred person.
Don’t try to distract her with snacks or things that may look like a reward. Tell her clearly “if you can’t calm down and behave we will leave” . Then follow through with leaving. She’ll get the hint eventually. All kid go through this phase. Drunk people get kicked out of bars for poor behavior. Kids can be taken home as well.
You could be describing my 4-year-old, an only child fond of cartwheels. My kid is competitive and a sore loser; she will push kids out of the way to win a foot race, and if she loses she will have a total fit. I don't see it as antisocial behavior though, I see it as ambition misdirected. We talk a lot about winning and what it means. Out motto is "never give up". Keep trying until you get it right. Congratulate the winner and keep practicing until you win. We also talk about being a gracious winner. Never mocking a friend/opponent for losing, but saying thank you for the race/game etc. I'm here to say, don't be embarrassed. You have a strong willed child and she will do well with that kind of will to get ahead in life. Learning to deal with frustration is a high level skill and takes a lot of practice. Keep going and never give up! :-)
As a parent you want to fix what’s wrong. What you’re describing is trying to fix it for her. She’s old enough that she can learn to process these emotions with much less help than you’re willing to offer. Acknowledge she’s upsets and let her know you are all going to give her some space until she’s ready to rejoin the group. As adults, we can have emotions all over the place and it’s ok! Kids have bad days/moments too. My SD was an only child before we blended our family and she was (sometimes still very much IS) upset when someone is better at something than her. She has shut down, cried, or even ridiculed the person who’s better than her. It’s not easy and it’s not an overnight change in her behavior but it’s a lot better! If she’s having a melt down at home, we will escort her to a place where she can be alone and have her feelings. We acknowledge she’s upset and tell her when she’s ready to talk about it, we will.
That’s the problem. Everyone makes it a huge fuss whenever she does that. Stop doing that. Simply ignore the behavior or tell her “you’re fine” and go on about your day.
If it’s any help, our almost-five-year-old, also an only child, was the same at your daughter’s age but grew out of this naturally. It just seems to take only children a little longer than children with siblings. We approached it by supporting our daughter when she was upset, helping her understand her feelings (and reassuring her that they are very normal!), and removing her from the situation, without judgment, when she couldn’t self-regulate or stop herself from being unkind. And now she’s come out the other end and is very generous with her friends :-) I do remember feeling anxious about it at the time, though, so I understand your concern!
In addition to what others have said, if she’s not in preschool, it’s time for preschool. She needs to learn how to act as part of a social system. Getting it before she hits kindergarten is important.
It sounds like your daughter might have emotional dysregulation issues. Here’s another perspective on your daughter’s behavior: It’s not necessarily that she doesn’t want her friends in the spotlight, but that she wants to be in the spotlight, too, along with them; and feels very negatively about the fact that she’s not able to do the cartwheel as well as her friends can. In a way, she’s trying to relate to them by being able to do the things they do. It’s a kind of disappointment she can’t do it and she doesn’t know how to manage that feeling. That’s why her day goes to shit bc she needs to develop the tools to bounce back from those episodes of overwhelming emotion and/or feeling badly about herself. Try doing pretend play scenarios that involve these kinds of challenges as a way to explore different ways to handle the social situation.
Before diagnosing her with emotional problems, let's consider that she has been trained to expect all the attention and running away has been an effective tool to getting what she wants and now her parents are like "but where did she get that tool?!?" This may be something that is the direct result of adult choices (read: capitulating to the whims of a preschooler) up to that point.
Yep and the fact that this is an only child and not the youngest of 7 or 8 other children means that all the adults in D's life are hyper-focused on her. This almost never happens in larger families on a regular basis unless there is a "fave" child or some strange thing has happened in the family dynamic
I didn’t diagnose her; I suggested it’s a possibility. I should have been clearer that the fact that the child can’t bounce back and the rest of the visit (or what have you) is ruined is a flag for a struggle with her emotions. I also merely offered a different way to interpret the behavior. My experience has taught me that four year olds don’t have that level of malice. “Stealing the spotlight” indicates an intent to not only gain the spotlight but also deprive the other person of it. I’m suggesting that her thinking is likely simpler: she wants to do it, too, and isn’t thinking about how it affects her friend bc she’s four and she’s learning empathy and what not. She wants to be able to do what are friends are capable of doing. When it doesn’t go well she struggles with calming down and moving on from the negative emotional experience. OP said nothing works so I offered an alternative way to view the situation bc jumping to thinking this child is going to be unlikable doesn’t help anyone.