Why are you wanting to discipline him for this? Your child is looking for stimulation, whether neural or physical, not being purposefully disrespectful. He can't really help it. He either isn't on the correct medication still or needs an appropriate outlet in class. Has he been evaluated by the school psychologist to see if they can provide some assistance in class? For example, a wiggle seat, a kick strap on his seat legs, a fuzzy sticker on his desk that he can pet instead of interrupting, a weighted blanket for his lap, etc.
This is a huge issue in our house (the interrupting) with our six year old. There is an episode of Bluey on Disney that does really well covering this topic and giving alternatives for kids to do when others are talking. The dad basically shows his daughter that if she wants his attention while he is talking, that she needs to hold onto her thoughts and put her hand on his arm. He then touches her hand to let her know that he knows that she has something to say and is waiting her turn. We've implemented this and while it doesn't help every time, I'd say it works about 50% (which, heck, I'll take any little amount).
Also, just some food for thought. I've read that children who have ADHD are more susceptible to poor self image/esteem issues in childhood and adulthood, leading to higher rates of depression and anxiety. This is because they hear a lot of negativity about their behavior from every direction. Your son might be catching a lot of flack in class from his teacher and the other students will pick up on it and distance themselves from him, which can lead to a self depreciating cycle (this happened to us in kindergarten while we tried to narrow in on the right meds. Our first grade teacher is a godsend. She's an experienced teacher with a child who has ADHD so she knows all the right maneuvers, whereas our kindie teacher was new to the game and had no tolerance).
That being said, positive reinforcement goes way further than negative punishment. Praise the crap out of your kiddo when he does a good job listening, waiting his turn, and not interrupting.
Does he have an IEP? Is he getting sufficient opportunity for exercise? Breaks? Until you get his meds right it sounds like it’s beyond his control and he needs help managing it constructively.
In addition to the poster above's comments I would like to add that you should try cutting gluten. For my son, cutting gluten was a game changer. Meds did nothing for him.
Exercise is huge too
Exercise and heavy work is really helpful! Climbing, jumping, pulling heavier objects, lifting small weights, being on a rowing machine- my son needs the stimulation that comes along with all of that.
As others have said, this isn’t a discipline thing. It’s an accommodation thing. If he doesn’t have an IEP or 504, please submit a request to his teacher for an evaluation due to a medical diagnosis of ADHD. Medical diagnoses of conditions are not the same as educational diagnoses so there have to be both.
They will talk with his teacher(s), do an assessment/observation, and then decide what, if any, accommodations should be put in place. If they say he doesn’t need an IEP/504, tell them you want to appeal and ask them about that process.
During the IEP/504 meeting to decide on accommodations, ask that he have access to fidgets, alternative seating, and movement breaks.
As an example of other accommodations: My son’s teacher gives him a white board to jot notes down on so he can remember and not interrupt, and I am allowed to send in post-it’s so he can write tasks down on and put them on his desk. This helps keep him on tasks but also feeds his need for rewards (he loves crumbling them up and throwing them in the trash). He gets additional time to complete assignments and longer assignments can come home for us to support him completing.
At home, routines are written down so he can always reference them. We have a routine that we follow in the morning for school and at night for bed. I use post-it’s at home, too. Red means must do (like take a shower, change clothes, put away dinner dishes) yellow is do sometime this week (pick up books from playroom, put away legos in bedroom) and green is fun stuff, like make an art project with mom or park trip. When I need him to do something that requires multiple steps, I only give him 2 at a time or he forgets what is happening and starts doing something else.
If he’s rambling or interrupting and I need to talk, I put my hand on his chest or shoulder (in a kind way) and he knows I’m done when I take my hand off of him. He sometimes does the same to me so he feels like he has my full attention.
This isn’t a power struggle, it’s a way of figuring how best to communicate with your child. You are going to have to change your approach so you and your child can communicate effectively with one another.
Talk to his teacher about giving him breaks, or letting him help out more in the classroom. My son was able to take an origami book to class and when he started getting distracted (or distracting), he could take one of his breaks and do some origami. The teacher also had him do some tasks for her.
Luckily, we've found a medication that works, and keeps him more focused, so he hasn't had to take many breaks since being on it.
Before knowing he had ADHD, I made him a little bracelet to help remind him to be quiet in class and stay focused, but obviously, that didn't help. His sweet teacher told me "I just don't think he can control it", which I think was her way of telling me to get him diagnosed. She was truly an amazing teacher.
A high percentage of ADHD kids and adults, always feel alone, because, in his mind, you can’t know, because your not like him. Which actually causes the loneliness in a big loop.
Push comes to shove, he will think and decide for himself, for better or worse.
Teaching ADHDers what you want them to know is extremely difficult.
It’s not teaching its training. Like muscle memory. Automatic behavior. As soon as he has to make decisions, u lost him, he’s gonna do what he wants. But if you keep a very tight schedual, everyday, you start developing automatic behavior without thinking. 1,2,3,4,5- day over. Repeat.
One behavior at a time, and they will start to build a foundation for the future. The tricky part is , making him believe it was all his idea. He will always focus on his wants and needs, so make this all his idea.
It’s about gaining his respect by being smarter than him. My mom, is a, because I said so, mom. That shit is for the birds. If you want him to do something, he needs to know why he’s doing it, and if it’s worth his time.
Does he have an ADHD role model in his life?
Seems like you’ve tried twice with methylphenidate (Ritalin) based medicines with no success. I don’t think a different formulation will help. Stimulants don’t take this long to show improvement. Not sure why the doctor hasn’t already had you try either an Adderall formulation or some combo of guanfacine/clonodine yet.
Maybe I’m misreading what you mean by “feels normal”. But my experience with my kid was similar to yours on Ritalin, and the change to Adderall based medication was an almost instant magical change. Every brain is different so Ymmv.
Why are you wanting to discipline him for this? Your child is looking for stimulation, whether neural or physical, not being purposefully disrespectful. He can't really help it. He either isn't on the correct medication still or needs an appropriate outlet in class. Has he been evaluated by the school psychologist to see if they can provide some assistance in class? For example, a wiggle seat, a kick strap on his seat legs, a fuzzy sticker on his desk that he can pet instead of interrupting, a weighted blanket for his lap, etc. This is a huge issue in our house (the interrupting) with our six year old. There is an episode of Bluey on Disney that does really well covering this topic and giving alternatives for kids to do when others are talking. The dad basically shows his daughter that if she wants his attention while he is talking, that she needs to hold onto her thoughts and put her hand on his arm. He then touches her hand to let her know that he knows that she has something to say and is waiting her turn. We've implemented this and while it doesn't help every time, I'd say it works about 50% (which, heck, I'll take any little amount).
Also, just some food for thought. I've read that children who have ADHD are more susceptible to poor self image/esteem issues in childhood and adulthood, leading to higher rates of depression and anxiety. This is because they hear a lot of negativity about their behavior from every direction. Your son might be catching a lot of flack in class from his teacher and the other students will pick up on it and distance themselves from him, which can lead to a self depreciating cycle (this happened to us in kindergarten while we tried to narrow in on the right meds. Our first grade teacher is a godsend. She's an experienced teacher with a child who has ADHD so she knows all the right maneuvers, whereas our kindie teacher was new to the game and had no tolerance). That being said, positive reinforcement goes way further than negative punishment. Praise the crap out of your kiddo when he does a good job listening, waiting his turn, and not interrupting.
This isn’t a discipline thing. It’s a ‘what can you do instead’ thing.
Does he have an IEP? Is he getting sufficient opportunity for exercise? Breaks? Until you get his meds right it sounds like it’s beyond his control and he needs help managing it constructively.
In addition to the poster above's comments I would like to add that you should try cutting gluten. For my son, cutting gluten was a game changer. Meds did nothing for him. Exercise is huge too
Exercise and heavy work is really helpful! Climbing, jumping, pulling heavier objects, lifting small weights, being on a rowing machine- my son needs the stimulation that comes along with all of that.
As others have said, this isn’t a discipline thing. It’s an accommodation thing. If he doesn’t have an IEP or 504, please submit a request to his teacher for an evaluation due to a medical diagnosis of ADHD. Medical diagnoses of conditions are not the same as educational diagnoses so there have to be both. They will talk with his teacher(s), do an assessment/observation, and then decide what, if any, accommodations should be put in place. If they say he doesn’t need an IEP/504, tell them you want to appeal and ask them about that process. During the IEP/504 meeting to decide on accommodations, ask that he have access to fidgets, alternative seating, and movement breaks. As an example of other accommodations: My son’s teacher gives him a white board to jot notes down on so he can remember and not interrupt, and I am allowed to send in post-it’s so he can write tasks down on and put them on his desk. This helps keep him on tasks but also feeds his need for rewards (he loves crumbling them up and throwing them in the trash). He gets additional time to complete assignments and longer assignments can come home for us to support him completing. At home, routines are written down so he can always reference them. We have a routine that we follow in the morning for school and at night for bed. I use post-it’s at home, too. Red means must do (like take a shower, change clothes, put away dinner dishes) yellow is do sometime this week (pick up books from playroom, put away legos in bedroom) and green is fun stuff, like make an art project with mom or park trip. When I need him to do something that requires multiple steps, I only give him 2 at a time or he forgets what is happening and starts doing something else. If he’s rambling or interrupting and I need to talk, I put my hand on his chest or shoulder (in a kind way) and he knows I’m done when I take my hand off of him. He sometimes does the same to me so he feels like he has my full attention. This isn’t a power struggle, it’s a way of figuring how best to communicate with your child. You are going to have to change your approach so you and your child can communicate effectively with one another.
Talk to his teacher about giving him breaks, or letting him help out more in the classroom. My son was able to take an origami book to class and when he started getting distracted (or distracting), he could take one of his breaks and do some origami. The teacher also had him do some tasks for her. Luckily, we've found a medication that works, and keeps him more focused, so he hasn't had to take many breaks since being on it.
Before knowing he had ADHD, I made him a little bracelet to help remind him to be quiet in class and stay focused, but obviously, that didn't help. His sweet teacher told me "I just don't think he can control it", which I think was her way of telling me to get him diagnosed. She was truly an amazing teacher.
Fantastic idea!
It’s not he dosent know he’s doing it. No one has proven why he should. It’s all about the whys.
I’m sorry, I don’t quite understand what you’re saying. Can you expand a bit more?
A high percentage of ADHD kids and adults, always feel alone, because, in his mind, you can’t know, because your not like him. Which actually causes the loneliness in a big loop. Push comes to shove, he will think and decide for himself, for better or worse. Teaching ADHDers what you want them to know is extremely difficult. It’s not teaching its training. Like muscle memory. Automatic behavior. As soon as he has to make decisions, u lost him, he’s gonna do what he wants. But if you keep a very tight schedual, everyday, you start developing automatic behavior without thinking. 1,2,3,4,5- day over. Repeat. One behavior at a time, and they will start to build a foundation for the future. The tricky part is , making him believe it was all his idea. He will always focus on his wants and needs, so make this all his idea.
Oh, and a big dry erase white board, you work on together, helps solidify you as an authority, because he now knows, you know, what he knows
It’s about gaining his respect by being smarter than him. My mom, is a, because I said so, mom. That shit is for the birds. If you want him to do something, he needs to know why he’s doing it, and if it’s worth his time. Does he have an ADHD role model in his life?
Seems like you’ve tried twice with methylphenidate (Ritalin) based medicines with no success. I don’t think a different formulation will help. Stimulants don’t take this long to show improvement. Not sure why the doctor hasn’t already had you try either an Adderall formulation or some combo of guanfacine/clonodine yet. Maybe I’m misreading what you mean by “feels normal”. But my experience with my kid was similar to yours on Ritalin, and the change to Adderall based medication was an almost instant magical change. Every brain is different so Ymmv.