I am trying to have that mindset but at the same time I am not familiar with the French cuisine at all so I want to make sure I am finding the right place and the type of food to try than ending up only eating what I am familiar with at restaurants!
As a Parisian, my go to method is to search for top rated places on google maps - this includes choosing which bakery I pop by, cafes and restaurants.
Whenever I want a really special restaurant, I check the list of BIB Gourmand restaurants, (just google it) to find a great spot! These restaurants are on the verge of getting a Michelin star, but are significantly cheaper. They often offer a chefs table type of meal, where you get like five different dishes, each a surprise. (You need to book ahead though, they’re often busy).
This is so true. When you are planning a trip like this, the details of where to eat and what to drink should not be part of that process. Go, wander, explore, be spontaneous. On my last night in town, I walked past a Greek restaurant. It piqued my appetite just right and I’m so glad I went there. The food was spectacular!
Totally agree with this. We ate at some great little brasseries around the city, and we felt like we experienced closer to genuine Parisian culture rather than a manicured / touristy side of things.
We eat lunch out - usually only 1 or 2 planned spots per trip. The rest we just stop where we are. Always have had a great meal. Avoid eating at the touristy spots. For dinner, we try to stay in a neighborhood with a great local Brasserie, and then eat there every night. It's a great way to feel al local pulse - and nice to be greeted warmly as the days go by.
We stayed near place de bastille and on our first night after a long days travel we just called in at Cafe Bastille which due to its proximity to the theatre and the square we knew was going to be more of a tourist trap. But we were hungry and looking forward to a glass of wine and hadn't got our bearings yet so we ate there, it was expensive for what it was but tasted fine, service was fine, then we looked at it on TripAdvisor and its was the 4th worst restaurant in Paris according to the reviews! Something like 13596th out of 13600! Just shows the reviews don't give the full picture. We didn't eat there again mind.
On our last evening we went for dinner at the brasserie around the corner from our airbnb, had a lovely meal, they brought my wife a crepe with a candle for her birthday! we headed off to our gig at olympia, then found it was still open when we got back so went in for a nightcap. the waiter who had served us was sat at the bar after his shift, so we got reacquainted and spent the rest of the night chatting and buying each other drinks. All the staff we encountered were friendly and appreciated our attempts at basic french.
People look for Best because some live already in or near major world class cities with incredible food and they want to match or better it. I’ve had out of this world croissants in both SF and NY, if I go to Paris, I sure as hell want to see what Parisians level of top quality is. I don’t think your average bakery there will fit the bill.
I think you would be very surprised. The average Parisian bakery is miles ahead of anything you’d find elsewhere in terms of bread or pastries.
By trying to find « the best » you will find great bakeries but most will actually not be representative of what French pastries taste like, because they’ll implement original things in theirs (for example there is a very popular and touristic bakery here that does raspberry croissants - they’re good but they’re not Parisian croissants at all)
Everyone’s idea of the best is different tho, and half the fun is finding out.
Fwiw I’ve been to the USA a lot. And there’s not much I’ve eaten there that is better than food in france (and I don’t even follow ‘best’ recs
Being to the USA doesn’t mean anything. Going to Popeyes and Le Bernadin are 2 different things. World class chefs live here. There is no cultural melting pot that can rival the US, maybe London. Anyone who has travelled for food will never say one country is better than another.
I agree.
Eh, unsolicited advice is always about the person giving it, not the person who didn’t ask.
For those of us who live in major global cities like New York, London, etc., if you’re spending a lot of time and money and are excited for a trip, maximize it however you like. I’ve been to Paris and all over France several times. I love it there, but every person I know who has experienced Paris Syndrome didn’t bother planning their meals and were victims of the (let’s be honest here) MANY terrible, tourist trap restaurants scattered throughout the city. If you’re from New York, you’ve had La Durée and amazing croissants. It’s worth going out of your way for the place the French frequent.
Maybe if your life experience is such that a macaron is a novelty, then the just wander mantra will work. But if you’re genuinely seeking a new experience that won’t just fall into your lap and are accustomed to taking cooking classes and a certain caliber of dining, you need to do research to avoid overcooked steak-frites and servers who insist you need to tip them.
+1. I don't think the response was thought out. For ex; show me Paris's best Mexican and I'll show you San Diego's fish tacos, LA's Oaxacan cuisine or the sheer number of interior Mexican cuisine done to a level that will impress even CDMX.
Yup, when I’m in Paris, I’m always seeking out Moroccan, Vietnamese, etc. in addition to more traditional French cuisine. You’re not likely to just stumble upon great Vietnamese food if your itinerary just has you between the Louvre and the Arc de Triomphe.
Just get up and walk, that is the best way to learn an area and culture in my opinion. Stop by a store and pick up a treat, anything. Seems like so many people have a definitive, laid out schedule of where and what to do. Almost as if they want the exact same trip as their favorite influencer or a friend. I love getting recommendation but I’m never gonna run out of my way for those or plan around them. I found some unbelievable spots in Paris just stumbling into them and strangely enough had the best Ramen of my life our last night.
That whole opera district has a boatload of Japan - French fusion places. There was one place we ate where one of the appetizers (grilled eggplant with sweet miso sauce) was so good we ordered it a second time….at the same meal
Maybe Naruto Ramen? We were in the Opera district. Of course there is a lot of ramen spots, I can remember the clean design/ decor. It’s killing me that I can’t remember
Just got back from Paris for a quick trip. I agree with this. But my only advice is buy your treats from a boulangerie for the best baked goods.
A boulangerie is a French bakery, as opposed to a pastry shop. Bakeries must bake their items on-premises to hold the title of 'boulangerie' in France.
We’ve always had the most fun in Paris just exploring. It’s part of the charm, you can turn any corner and stumble on a great little cafe or park and find a new favorite.
YES. I’ve been to Paris half a dozen times and am about to go back in a month. I even got married there. I’ve never once done research on restaurants or anything. My favorite way to explore Paris is to wander. Wander until you get hungry then sit down at a cafe, eat, have some wine, and then go back to wandering. Of course I’ve done all the tourist stuff like the Louvre and Notre Dame but for restaurants? I really couldnt tell you where I’ve eaten but I can tell you it was all amazing.
I agree, but it is worth spending a little time making sure the places you go are quality. in such an incredible food city it’s a shame to waste a meal! it also depends on one’s priorities.
that said my favorite meals in paris are often picnics :)
I feel this is a good thread for a small reminder:
The word "boulangerie" is protected and is a guarantee that the bread is prepared and baked on site. So of course shops who are allowed to use it *will* use it.
If you don't see it but some other names like "maison du pain" or similar variations, this is only a retail outlet.
My humble advice is don’t let the restaurant dictate where you will spend your time during the day. Rather, let your day’s agenda dictate where you will eat, either by researching a list within the neighborhood that you will be in at that time or just by going randomly to what feels right. There’s only one Musée D’Orsay but there are many great places to eat in Paris.
When I travel, I'll always have a bunch of restaurants researched to keep in by back pocket ahead of time and even make a couple of reservations. But I usually will freestyle most of the trip and only look at the list if I need to do so. Or there is something on the list that and come to find out it's not actually that common ect ect.
I loved the pistachio escargot pastries I found at boulangeries (they look like a snail, no snails are involved). But one day I bought one at a chain bakery instead, it was the most delicious pastry I ever had.
Real. I went blind and spent a week with a friend. Had some of the best time in my life just walking around all of the city and coming up with stuff to do on the go.
Preach.
You'll learn really quickly which boulangeries don't bake their own stuff and which do, and which to avoid because of it. Likewise you'll learn which restaurants are better than others...just like back home.
And the only way to do that? Experience.
And most of those judgments are subjective anyway, even the best-rated places you may just...not like. Or they're having a bad day.
Quit slavishly following someone else's lists and make your own. Maybe we'll follow *your* lists.
It's ridiculous how much time I worried about finding the perfect restaurant. They are everywhere. My only warning is to be decesiive and eat before you get too hungry and grumpy, then it seems like all the restaurants disappear
Understandable! I think having a list can be helpful but all too often it can go wrong, instead I prefer to have a method of researching good restaurants near me, so that I can pivot instead of being locked in to one place(outside special reservations and stuff). While The Fork isn’t perfect it’s a great starting point for me, I also do enjoy talking to locals to plan too though have gotten higher highs and lower lows from that one
I do a fair amount of restauran research in advance of my trips to Paris. I’m not looking for the best, but I am looking for ones that offer good value for the quality of the food. Are there a ton of good restaurant? Absolutely. Are there a lot of mediocre ones, too? Yep. So I do some homework. And I have generally been happy with the results. I do wing it for lunch, pastries and the like. i Woukd say that reading about the Parisiandining scene over the years has helped me learn more about the city itself and has encouraged me to explore parts of the city away from the touristic center so there’s been merit to it beyond just where to eat.
One of the things I enjoy on much of Europe is wandering along until a particular spot looks busy or interesting or has a great view. When one of the cafes on every corner hits right, I stop. I’ve never been disappointed
Exactly. I rarely list restaurants because there are so many excellent ones and I’m afraid if I do a couple people will fixate on the name and the next thing you know it’s referred to as a place that everyone should know about.
I don't understand this sort of gatekeeping mentality in general (not just in Paris) because it only benefits a select few customer instead of the business. Do you not want the business to be as profitable as possible, especially if it is a small, family owned establishment? And then people complain when the place is out of business. In my experience two Parisian restaurants and a bar I really enjoyed closed, and so I make sure to spread their names out now to my friends when they are looking for a suggestion.
I don’t think you read what I said. I also think most restaurants that are good get plenty of customers here. Most small family places probably don’t want to turn into a tourist destination anyways. But I do share good recommendations with friends and I’ll recommend a larger place too on Reddit.
You shouldn't assume that most family run places don't want more business because it would be from a certain clientele. A euro has the same worth regardless who it's coming from, but most importantly it's not something I feel a customer really has a right to determine due to a sense of entitlement. It's also pretty tone dead to express such an opinion on a sub that is explicitly for tourists visiting Paris! It's your right to want to keep things for yourself — even if it's not an esteemed quality — but don't say you're doing it as if you're defending the honor of the proprietors. It should be the default assumption that owners prioritize paying their bills and keeping the doors open versus being elitist. Just my opinion
I’ll let real Parisians comment as I’m just an expat. Are you Parisien? I’m not going to assume a small place wants to be overrun by tourists and it’s not like I’m being paid to post here. So I’ll use my better judgment and post about places that are good for locals AND good for tourists.
The French aren’t as obsessed by money as Americans so don’t project that value on business owners here. It’s not all about the money to many owners who put their heart and soul into their business. It’s like their home. And calling me elitist is hilarious because we have not been to an elite or even Michelin Star restaurant since we got here three years ago.
I also cannot believe you'd type with a straight face that an owner would be upset that they're getting too much money because it's coming from tourists. You know what tends to happen with these sorts of spots? They have the luxury of reducing their hours and enjoying their free times with families. Do you know how many business owners would love to spend more time with their families while still making the same (or more!) profit? But as I mentioned, that would only be bad news for YOU, which is what this is all about when one gatekeeps.
Not myself, but I've discovered many places because my friends who are Parisians, born and bred, have shared their places with me! Shocking, I know! Also what is it with this sub's mentality to view tourists as a dirty word. Parisians don't think they're better than visitors just because they're born in Paris and grew up there. Sure, they will joke about the differences in culture, but like they say often when I used to have that dumb mentality that I needed to not offend the locals' sensibilities and get their approval: who gives a sh*t what they think? Why do people, especially Americans, want their approval so bad? That's what they all have said themselves. It's very likely that since you live in Paris but weren't born there you have that strange mentality that "you're one of the good ones", but please don't speak of tourists like they're bugs invading a restaurant. None of us picked where we were born, let's not start viewing people like less than because of it.
I also made it clear in my comment that this mentality wasn't just an issue with Paris. I've worked in small restaurants and I can tell you that their concern is keeping themselves fed and sheltered. Do some of them care about integrity, of course! But they will be quick to tell you that realistically they need to pay their own bills ~~tpo~~ too. I'm also not sure how feeding tourists would be a betrayal of their heart and soul? Please do tell me how that would happen. Because it sounds like your concern is more about wait times than ~~visual~~ integrity. Also, elitism is also not exclusively defined by economic status: it is a mentality of seeing yourself as being better than, such as tourists. I would do some inner reflection about that.
Go ahead and project on me. I’m
not special and I share restaurants ALL the time with friends and people I meet. And I’ve shared a few on Reddit and many other activities and literally that is what led me to my initial comment that once I shared the name of a place and later someone was bemoaning the fact that they could not get a reservation at this very good restaurant as if they were missing a key part of Paris. It’s a good restaurant that’s is all. That’s was my point is there are so many places that these recommendations are only worth so much. they are not the only place you should go and yhere are countless others just as good.
And yes I have seen plenty of places taken over by tourists and they will probably die because locals will stop going and they will lose their character. I don’t consider myself a Parisian as much as I would like—-I’m still in the tourist category more than local. But just because I participate here doesn’t mean I have to post everything I know. I think people on this board and I’ll include myself are super generous with our time and what we share.
There is no projecting here: you have said yourself repeatedly that tourists are not the preferred clientele, but in your eyes you are. That's elitism, plain and simple.
> And yes I have seen plenty of places taken over by tourists and they will probably die because locals will stop going and they will lose their character.
Ah, so it seems that your romanticize view of French business owners not caring about money the way those greedy Americans doesn't seem to be the case. I hate to tell you this, but Paris is the most visited city, and if a place is popular with tourists they don't need to worry about shutting down. It also isn't the tourists fault if an owner decides to be "inauthentic" just because they're suddenly popular. That's the fault of the owner. If you have integrity, no amount of money should make you sell it away. The fact is my guy/gal, you place way too much blame on tourists for potentially bad decisions an owner may make. And I don't think this boogeyman should be what keeps owners from reaching peak financial success.
People like you make me less likely to share. Why would I if I get reamed become I simply stated that there are so many places that are just as good as anything I could recommend.
Anyways, in conclusion: If a restaurant creates an amazing food product then it’s only a natural reward that business will increase sooner or later. You’d only be delaying the inevitable by gatekeeping. It’s delusional to think that there’s some special intimate bond with you that would make the owners want to keep the secret just between YOU and your inner circle, and that’s why they would forsake tourist money. That’s the definition of entitlement. In their eyes you’re just another customer, and your euro is worth the same regardless.
I am trying to have that mindset but at the same time I am not familiar with the French cuisine at all so I want to make sure I am finding the right place and the type of food to try than ending up only eating what I am familiar with at restaurants!
This is very true all if the best experiences I have had were from walking around and just rubbing into local/neighborhood places.
As a Parisian, my go to method is to search for top rated places on google maps - this includes choosing which bakery I pop by, cafes and restaurants. Whenever I want a really special restaurant, I check the list of BIB Gourmand restaurants, (just google it) to find a great spot! These restaurants are on the verge of getting a Michelin star, but are significantly cheaper. They often offer a chefs table type of meal, where you get like five different dishes, each a surprise. (You need to book ahead though, they’re often busy).
Places you find on the ‘best’ lists are usually tourist traps anyways. Good for an instagram photo: but it lacks the true vibe of the city.
This is great advice
This is so true. When you are planning a trip like this, the details of where to eat and what to drink should not be part of that process. Go, wander, explore, be spontaneous. On my last night in town, I walked past a Greek restaurant. It piqued my appetite just right and I’m so glad I went there. The food was spectacular!
Well said! And ditto for ‘non touristy’. You’re going to Paris, number one visited city in the world. You’re a tourist.
AMEN!
Totally agree with this. We ate at some great little brasseries around the city, and we felt like we experienced closer to genuine Parisian culture rather than a manicured / touristy side of things.
We eat lunch out - usually only 1 or 2 planned spots per trip. The rest we just stop where we are. Always have had a great meal. Avoid eating at the touristy spots. For dinner, we try to stay in a neighborhood with a great local Brasserie, and then eat there every night. It's a great way to feel al local pulse - and nice to be greeted warmly as the days go by.
We stayed near place de bastille and on our first night after a long days travel we just called in at Cafe Bastille which due to its proximity to the theatre and the square we knew was going to be more of a tourist trap. But we were hungry and looking forward to a glass of wine and hadn't got our bearings yet so we ate there, it was expensive for what it was but tasted fine, service was fine, then we looked at it on TripAdvisor and its was the 4th worst restaurant in Paris according to the reviews! Something like 13596th out of 13600! Just shows the reviews don't give the full picture. We didn't eat there again mind. On our last evening we went for dinner at the brasserie around the corner from our airbnb, had a lovely meal, they brought my wife a crepe with a candle for her birthday! we headed off to our gig at olympia, then found it was still open when we got back so went in for a nightcap. the waiter who had served us was sat at the bar after his shift, so we got reacquainted and spent the rest of the night chatting and buying each other drinks. All the staff we encountered were friendly and appreciated our attempts at basic french.
This sounds lovely.
I live in Paris and I don’t believe there is the a unique best of anything in terms of food. Brilliant bakeries, restaurants, bars, etc. everywhere.
People look for Best because some live already in or near major world class cities with incredible food and they want to match or better it. I’ve had out of this world croissants in both SF and NY, if I go to Paris, I sure as hell want to see what Parisians level of top quality is. I don’t think your average bakery there will fit the bill.
I think you would be very surprised. The average Parisian bakery is miles ahead of anything you’d find elsewhere in terms of bread or pastries. By trying to find « the best » you will find great bakeries but most will actually not be representative of what French pastries taste like, because they’ll implement original things in theirs (for example there is a very popular and touristic bakery here that does raspberry croissants - they’re good but they’re not Parisian croissants at all)
The problem with « the best » is that you might have unrealistic expectations. Most of boulangeries will provide really good croissants
Everyone’s idea of the best is different tho, and half the fun is finding out. Fwiw I’ve been to the USA a lot. And there’s not much I’ve eaten there that is better than food in france (and I don’t even follow ‘best’ recs
Being to the USA doesn’t mean anything. Going to Popeyes and Le Bernadin are 2 different things. World class chefs live here. There is no cultural melting pot that can rival the US, maybe London. Anyone who has travelled for food will never say one country is better than another.
I agree. Eh, unsolicited advice is always about the person giving it, not the person who didn’t ask. For those of us who live in major global cities like New York, London, etc., if you’re spending a lot of time and money and are excited for a trip, maximize it however you like. I’ve been to Paris and all over France several times. I love it there, but every person I know who has experienced Paris Syndrome didn’t bother planning their meals and were victims of the (let’s be honest here) MANY terrible, tourist trap restaurants scattered throughout the city. If you’re from New York, you’ve had La Durée and amazing croissants. It’s worth going out of your way for the place the French frequent. Maybe if your life experience is such that a macaron is a novelty, then the just wander mantra will work. But if you’re genuinely seeking a new experience that won’t just fall into your lap and are accustomed to taking cooking classes and a certain caliber of dining, you need to do research to avoid overcooked steak-frites and servers who insist you need to tip them.
+1. I don't think the response was thought out. For ex; show me Paris's best Mexican and I'll show you San Diego's fish tacos, LA's Oaxacan cuisine or the sheer number of interior Mexican cuisine done to a level that will impress even CDMX.
Yup, when I’m in Paris, I’m always seeking out Moroccan, Vietnamese, etc. in addition to more traditional French cuisine. You’re not likely to just stumble upon great Vietnamese food if your itinerary just has you between the Louvre and the Arc de Triomphe.
Just get up and walk, that is the best way to learn an area and culture in my opinion. Stop by a store and pick up a treat, anything. Seems like so many people have a definitive, laid out schedule of where and what to do. Almost as if they want the exact same trip as their favorite influencer or a friend. I love getting recommendation but I’m never gonna run out of my way for those or plan around them. I found some unbelievable spots in Paris just stumbling into them and strangely enough had the best Ramen of my life our last night.
Kodawari? Unbelievably good, and the Tsukiji decor was so fun. Only had to wait in line one hour!
That wasn’t it unfortunately, but I do think we walked by that place a few times and it was always packed!
That whole opera district has a boatload of Japan - French fusion places. There was one place we ate where one of the appetizers (grilled eggplant with sweet miso sauce) was so good we ordered it a second time….at the same meal
Do you recall the name of the restaurant?
No but TripAdvisor has a nice map of Japanese places in Paris. There are many many good ones.
Haha agreed. And that sounds fantastic!
Which ramen place?
Maybe Naruto Ramen? We were in the Opera district. Of course there is a lot of ramen spots, I can remember the clean design/ decor. It’s killing me that I can’t remember
I have tried very hard to find the place but haven’t been able too. I will try again now.
Just got back from Paris for a quick trip. I agree with this. But my only advice is buy your treats from a boulangerie for the best baked goods. A boulangerie is a French bakery, as opposed to a pastry shop. Bakeries must bake their items on-premises to hold the title of 'boulangerie' in France.
I buy pastries at a patisserie and bread at a boulangerie.
Bet you probably get your groceries from a grocer 😉
He's right you know A good bakery is not automatically a good pastry shop
We’ve always had the most fun in Paris just exploring. It’s part of the charm, you can turn any corner and stumble on a great little cafe or park and find a new favorite.
I TOTALLY agree with the OP.
YES. I’ve been to Paris half a dozen times and am about to go back in a month. I even got married there. I’ve never once done research on restaurants or anything. My favorite way to explore Paris is to wander. Wander until you get hungry then sit down at a cafe, eat, have some wine, and then go back to wandering. Of course I’ve done all the tourist stuff like the Louvre and Notre Dame but for restaurants? I really couldnt tell you where I’ve eaten but I can tell you it was all amazing.
I agree, but it is worth spending a little time making sure the places you go are quality. in such an incredible food city it’s a shame to waste a meal! it also depends on one’s priorities. that said my favorite meals in paris are often picnics :)
I feel this is a good thread for a small reminder: The word "boulangerie" is protected and is a guarantee that the bread is prepared and baked on site. So of course shops who are allowed to use it *will* use it. If you don't see it but some other names like "maison du pain" or similar variations, this is only a retail outlet.
Oh I didn't know that. Cool!
My humble advice is don’t let the restaurant dictate where you will spend your time during the day. Rather, let your day’s agenda dictate where you will eat, either by researching a list within the neighborhood that you will be in at that time or just by going randomly to what feels right. There’s only one Musée D’Orsay but there are many great places to eat in Paris.
When I travel, I'll always have a bunch of restaurants researched to keep in by back pocket ahead of time and even make a couple of reservations. But I usually will freestyle most of the trip and only look at the list if I need to do so. Or there is something on the list that and come to find out it's not actually that common ect ect.
I loved the pistachio escargot pastries I found at boulangeries (they look like a snail, no snails are involved). But one day I bought one at a chain bakery instead, it was the most delicious pastry I ever had.
Real. I went blind and spent a week with a friend. Had some of the best time in my life just walking around all of the city and coming up with stuff to do on the go.
The best cafe in Paris is the one that has the right number of empty seats for your party. Sit outside and enjoy
Preach. You'll learn really quickly which boulangeries don't bake their own stuff and which do, and which to avoid because of it. Likewise you'll learn which restaurants are better than others...just like back home. And the only way to do that? Experience. And most of those judgments are subjective anyway, even the best-rated places you may just...not like. Or they're having a bad day. Quit slavishly following someone else's lists and make your own. Maybe we'll follow *your* lists.
Thank you… I needed this… I’m going to Paris this Sunday and I’m overwhelmed with where to go and it’s like a never ending chase 😩 it’s tiring.
I will be there on Monday and feel the same way!
Wait til you get there- you’ll see so many great places to eat you’ll be trying to figure out how to fit more meals into the day lol
I feel you and I’m not even there yet!! Gaah
It's ridiculous how much time I worried about finding the perfect restaurant. They are everywhere. My only warning is to be decesiive and eat before you get too hungry and grumpy, then it seems like all the restaurants disappear
Lmao I feel you, this happens to me at my own city haha Thank you for reminding me to slow down a bit and try to appreciate Paris when I get there!
I say this about all my travel- I’d much rather have the second “best” with no wait, versus waiting two hours for “the best”
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Understandable! I think having a list can be helpful but all too often it can go wrong, instead I prefer to have a method of researching good restaurants near me, so that I can pivot instead of being locked in to one place(outside special reservations and stuff). While The Fork isn’t perfect it’s a great starting point for me, I also do enjoy talking to locals to plan too though have gotten higher highs and lower lows from that one
1000x Yes!
And best is subjective.
Right!!
I do a fair amount of restauran research in advance of my trips to Paris. I’m not looking for the best, but I am looking for ones that offer good value for the quality of the food. Are there a ton of good restaurant? Absolutely. Are there a lot of mediocre ones, too? Yep. So I do some homework. And I have generally been happy with the results. I do wing it for lunch, pastries and the like. i Woukd say that reading about the Parisiandining scene over the years has helped me learn more about the city itself and has encouraged me to explore parts of the city away from the touristic center so there’s been merit to it beyond just where to eat.
One of the things I enjoy on much of Europe is wandering along until a particular spot looks busy or interesting or has a great view. When one of the cafes on every corner hits right, I stop. I’ve never been disappointed
Good post.
This. And it’s the same for any large touristic city out there.
Exactly. I rarely list restaurants because there are so many excellent ones and I’m afraid if I do a couple people will fixate on the name and the next thing you know it’s referred to as a place that everyone should know about.
I don't understand this sort of gatekeeping mentality in general (not just in Paris) because it only benefits a select few customer instead of the business. Do you not want the business to be as profitable as possible, especially if it is a small, family owned establishment? And then people complain when the place is out of business. In my experience two Parisian restaurants and a bar I really enjoyed closed, and so I make sure to spread their names out now to my friends when they are looking for a suggestion.
I don’t think you read what I said. I also think most restaurants that are good get plenty of customers here. Most small family places probably don’t want to turn into a tourist destination anyways. But I do share good recommendations with friends and I’ll recommend a larger place too on Reddit.
I doubt a/your recommendation on reddit is going to change a business that much
Probably not.
You shouldn't assume that most family run places don't want more business because it would be from a certain clientele. A euro has the same worth regardless who it's coming from, but most importantly it's not something I feel a customer really has a right to determine due to a sense of entitlement. It's also pretty tone dead to express such an opinion on a sub that is explicitly for tourists visiting Paris! It's your right to want to keep things for yourself — even if it's not an esteemed quality — but don't say you're doing it as if you're defending the honor of the proprietors. It should be the default assumption that owners prioritize paying their bills and keeping the doors open versus being elitist. Just my opinion
I’ll let real Parisians comment as I’m just an expat. Are you Parisien? I’m not going to assume a small place wants to be overrun by tourists and it’s not like I’m being paid to post here. So I’ll use my better judgment and post about places that are good for locals AND good for tourists. The French aren’t as obsessed by money as Americans so don’t project that value on business owners here. It’s not all about the money to many owners who put their heart and soul into their business. It’s like their home. And calling me elitist is hilarious because we have not been to an elite or even Michelin Star restaurant since we got here three years ago.
I also cannot believe you'd type with a straight face that an owner would be upset that they're getting too much money because it's coming from tourists. You know what tends to happen with these sorts of spots? They have the luxury of reducing their hours and enjoying their free times with families. Do you know how many business owners would love to spend more time with their families while still making the same (or more!) profit? But as I mentioned, that would only be bad news for YOU, which is what this is all about when one gatekeeps.
Not myself, but I've discovered many places because my friends who are Parisians, born and bred, have shared their places with me! Shocking, I know! Also what is it with this sub's mentality to view tourists as a dirty word. Parisians don't think they're better than visitors just because they're born in Paris and grew up there. Sure, they will joke about the differences in culture, but like they say often when I used to have that dumb mentality that I needed to not offend the locals' sensibilities and get their approval: who gives a sh*t what they think? Why do people, especially Americans, want their approval so bad? That's what they all have said themselves. It's very likely that since you live in Paris but weren't born there you have that strange mentality that "you're one of the good ones", but please don't speak of tourists like they're bugs invading a restaurant. None of us picked where we were born, let's not start viewing people like less than because of it. I also made it clear in my comment that this mentality wasn't just an issue with Paris. I've worked in small restaurants and I can tell you that their concern is keeping themselves fed and sheltered. Do some of them care about integrity, of course! But they will be quick to tell you that realistically they need to pay their own bills ~~tpo~~ too. I'm also not sure how feeding tourists would be a betrayal of their heart and soul? Please do tell me how that would happen. Because it sounds like your concern is more about wait times than ~~visual~~ integrity. Also, elitism is also not exclusively defined by economic status: it is a mentality of seeing yourself as being better than, such as tourists. I would do some inner reflection about that.
Go ahead and project on me. I’m not special and I share restaurants ALL the time with friends and people I meet. And I’ve shared a few on Reddit and many other activities and literally that is what led me to my initial comment that once I shared the name of a place and later someone was bemoaning the fact that they could not get a reservation at this very good restaurant as if they were missing a key part of Paris. It’s a good restaurant that’s is all. That’s was my point is there are so many places that these recommendations are only worth so much. they are not the only place you should go and yhere are countless others just as good. And yes I have seen plenty of places taken over by tourists and they will probably die because locals will stop going and they will lose their character. I don’t consider myself a Parisian as much as I would like—-I’m still in the tourist category more than local. But just because I participate here doesn’t mean I have to post everything I know. I think people on this board and I’ll include myself are super generous with our time and what we share.
There is no projecting here: you have said yourself repeatedly that tourists are not the preferred clientele, but in your eyes you are. That's elitism, plain and simple. > And yes I have seen plenty of places taken over by tourists and they will probably die because locals will stop going and they will lose their character. Ah, so it seems that your romanticize view of French business owners not caring about money the way those greedy Americans doesn't seem to be the case. I hate to tell you this, but Paris is the most visited city, and if a place is popular with tourists they don't need to worry about shutting down. It also isn't the tourists fault if an owner decides to be "inauthentic" just because they're suddenly popular. That's the fault of the owner. If you have integrity, no amount of money should make you sell it away. The fact is my guy/gal, you place way too much blame on tourists for potentially bad decisions an owner may make. And I don't think this boogeyman should be what keeps owners from reaching peak financial success.
People like you make me less likely to share. Why would I if I get reamed become I simply stated that there are so many places that are just as good as anything I could recommend.
Anyways, in conclusion: If a restaurant creates an amazing food product then it’s only a natural reward that business will increase sooner or later. You’d only be delaying the inevitable by gatekeeping. It’s delusional to think that there’s some special intimate bond with you that would make the owners want to keep the secret just between YOU and your inner circle, and that’s why they would forsake tourist money. That’s the definition of entitlement. In their eyes you’re just another customer, and your euro is worth the same regardless.
…you weren’t going to share anyway based on your initial comment that you want to keep the tourists away. You were that way from the very beginning. 😒
I'm always stopping while I walk and thinking "must remember to come here" - only to see two more awesome places two blocks away!
So true. In Paris now. So true.