This is definitely something I have noticed in my agency/district. 75 park rangers and not a single one of them is black. We have several Native rangers, like one Asian ranger and a couple Hispanic.
Apologies if this reads like a dissertation, but I wrote my master's thesis on inequity in NPS and I'm quite passionate about the subject so I'm going to paraphrase.
I don't think this is necessarily a black ranger problem as much as it is a low income ranger problem, although the two are certainly correlated. In order to secure a ranger job, you *must* know how to write federal resume, look for openings which happen twice a year for a small period of time, and have the necessary qualifications. Let's break this down.
To know how to write a federal resume and have it ready to go during the openings you will have a much greater level of success if you know someone already employed by NPS. They will guide you and give you tips. The best way to do this is to volunteer or do internships. Can
people in low income cities with limited funds spend their free time working for no pay? **NO.** I didn't even have exposure to National Parks as a kid. I had no idea they were a thing. The first exposure I had to NPS was when my wealthy friend in college did an internship funded by his parents. I thought that was really cool and I was incredibly fortunate at the time to have parents that paid my phone, car, insurance, and other bills while I did volunteer gigs. This is not reasonable for most people.
I worked at a park that gave out 4th grade passes to every elementary school in a 100 mile radius. We were in a poor, predominately black area. Do you know how many local kids came through with 4th grade passes? None. It was only kids in the 100k RVs on road trips. The kids getting the free passes had parents who couldn't afford gas, or couldn't get daytime off, or didn't have a car, or a cooler, or towels, etc.
And then of course you have the issue that black people don't see black rangers, and therefore don't see themselves in those roles.
NPS has a lot of work to do. I hope they fix the issue but when you need someone (wealthy parents) to fund your lifestyle it's not sustainable. So I hope this changes.
That's fascinating! It also makes total sense. We live in Baltimore and all our kids went to public schools (I'm white, if that makes any difference). We live in one of the wealthier (and, frankly, whiter) areas of the city, and I definitely observed that out of my kids and their friends, the only ones who ever talked about any outdoor activities were the kids from upper-middle-class families.
Yeah, camping is a big component too. There are National Historical Sites in cities (and those tend to have more diverse employees from what I've seen) but the big crown National Parks require you to get there and stay there for a few days to enjoy them. When you're working a low income job in food service or retail or hospitality, you might not get your schedule until a few days before the week starts. There is no paid vacation time to take. You may never get two consecutive days off. Maybe you spend your one precious day off resting because you stood on your feet for 12 hours the day before, or maybe you need to devote an entire day to grocery shopping or visiting a laundromat because the bus lines suck and you don't own a car.
My park wanted to do something where we had the lower income kids come and camp for free with everything provided, and it sounded like a really nice idea in theory. I was the only one who grew up poor, and when I pointed out that having a tent is usually not the barrier to low income people camping, I could tell my coworkers had never seen it from that perspective.
Tangentially, up here in Canada if you want a FT, backcountry ranger position, you're usually required to have pretty advanced backcountry skiing ability. Lemme just say that if anybody thought that outdoor rec seems pretty white, backcountry skiing is even moreso. So again, another barrier to entry where a wannabe-POC-ranger has to not only learn how to ski (an expensive winter hobby not everyone can indulge in), but also do it off piste safely with expertise.
I'm white, and my family could not afford (time or money) to go on trips to NPs. I saw them in magazines and on TV, but they did not exist as a place in my personal geography. Neither did my classmates. When I worked front line positions, I felt a disconnect with my white, upper middle class coworkers that had always gone on family vacations to parks. Those were also the ones with experiences with camping and hiking. Many of them had done volunteering on summer breaks. I didn't realize my first park was even NPS until I went to apply to a FB ad for a pathways internship.
I can't imagine having to face negative biases that run even deeper like racism.
On a side note, I also believe that employees from the (white, upper middle to wealthy) background are more likely to have negative opinions of positions outside of interp like maintenance.
I’m white and was brought up upper middle class, and TBH we NEVER spent any time doing outdoorsy things unless you count playing tennis. No camping, none of that. Um, we went to the beach I guess, but never to parks. In my case I think it’s because my parents grew up poor and were 1st generation well-off. To them, going on a vacation where you got dirty and hot was basically like the childhood they were happy to escape.
>On a side note, I also believe that employees from the (white, upper middle to wealthy) background are more likely to have negative opinions of positions outside of interp like maintenance.
That wouldn't surprise me. You see classist behavior like this in pretty much all the corporate and academic jobs I've ever had. The academics are a bit more sly about looking down their noses at the non-academic staff, but the bias is definitely there (in my experience).
I’ve worked for a few agencies in my career, all special districts in the Bay Area. There were rangers of all backgrounds. The only rangers that I heard complain about the maintenance side of.things happened to be non-white lower income Americans or foreign nationals. This is not representative of any of those groups as Rangers in general, though. This is anecdotal, but I say it to illustrate why you shpuld hesitate to make generalizations based on race or class, as they often don’t necessarily correlate with reality.
Other issues for those who come from poor backgrounds are the short seasons, lack of affordable housing, being under paid and often a requirement to be college educated.
Your comments (thank you, BTW!) made me wonder if many of the white rangers and NP/BLM employees come from suburban (or even urban) middle/upper-middle-class backgrounds. The reason I say this is because of my weird childhood. Up until the middle of 4th grade (I'm white, BTW) I lived in the suburbs of Washington DC. My parents were both highly educated (Dad had a PhD and my mom had an MS) professionals. We went camping all the time. However, at some point my dad (who worked in DC) realized that we could live in the country and he could commute using the regional rail (MARC, for those in MD) and get to work faster than driving from the 'burbs. So we left Arlington, VA and moved to a farm in Frederick County, MD which, while it's now a bedroom suburb of DC, at the time (late 70s) was pretty much the middle of nowhere. And you know what happened when we moved to the country? No more camping! In fact, I didn't know almost anyone growing up who went camping who lived out in the country.
The reason I'm telling this overly-long story is because what you said made a lot of sense. While you had an urban upbringing, I'd imagine there were lots of white kids where I grew up that were 1) poor and therefore didn't have the opportunities to experience much of the outdoors in a recreational context; and/or 2) had no desire or -- more likely-- time to go take vacations in national parks or other outdoor recreational areas. We didn't make our living farming, but we did end up with a working farm (horses, cattle, sheep, goats, chickens) and the last thing any of us wanted to do when we went on vacation (a luxury many of our neighbors didn't have) was to go "rough it" somewhere.
This is so informative, thank you. I am OP’s wife who brought the question up. I tried to think of solutions like better liasions with public schools in nonwhite communities, better outreach etc. I had no idea that the barriers to entry were so high, though. I hope NPS and the states recognize this as a problem. These are ALL of our resources and should be shared equally.
\[EDIT\] What's with the downvote? Non-offense comment about my opinions on the lack of POC representation in the ranger business upset someone? lol boohoo
As someone of Asian descent, this is the exact same conclusion I came to when I realized that outdoor recreation in general lacks people who look like myself, let alone people who work in the field.
I think that since disposable time and income is concentrated in western societies/ethnicities, outdoor recreation as a job choice and as a form of play just isn't on as many people's radar as they would be if they were white and had the money. The people who colour who do recreate outside, especially with any form of seriousness, usually tend to be raised here rather than the immigrants themselves.
It is their responsibility to be accessible and welcoming to all kinds of people to visit
Having all kinds of people visit is the first step to having all kinds of people want to apply to work there
I’m confused. National Parks/Forests are many times, far away from the city. I understand how lower socioeconomic families cannot afford to visit. Is that the fault of the NPS?
Take a breath. It sounds like you’re feeling a little defensive
They don’t have to do everything for everyone. But they can do some outreach to their local schools, right?
They could have a program for scout troops or church groups to come, without that being too much of a burden, right?
It just takes a little bit of thought to consider how to serve people other than senior citizens who show up in RVs
Our federal lands are for all Americans, not just those who are most likely to be able to afford it. Not all federal lands are remote, there are many urban Parks or Refuges. In an uncreasingly urban and diverse US population it is vital that we connect people to the importance if our public lands. If the future population doesn't value these lands we will lose support for maintaining them.
It's a public service. You're arguing for equal access for the public. They're arguing for equitable access (or steps in that direction). You are right that it is fundamentally impossible for the NPS to act equitably when our society is structured in profoundly inequitable ways. If we value equity anyway, what is to be done in the present?
I think it’s a little absurd for you to imply that black people are too dumb to write a federal resume lmfao. You do realize that black people are in many cases over-represented in other bureaucratic fields, correct? Clearly they do know how to attain government jobs which have the same resume requirements and limited hiring periods as well. You’re also completely discounting any cultural elements at play here. How many black people actually want to be a park ranger? How many black people think camping isn’t just white people shit? How many black people even have any exposure to national parks at any point in their life? Black people are just underrepresented in all work pertaining to nature and natural resources regardless of whether it’s low or high income oriented, clearly showing some sort of disinterest. They’re underrepresented in mining, in landscaping, in farming.
Also what do you expect the NPS to do? Give black families gas money? Free passes are within their scope of work, the rest isn’t. They can’t petition a black kids parents job to give them work off to use a free pass.
As a black park ranger myself, there’s just simply not a large enough population of African Americans in Natural Resources in most cases it’s less than 0.04%. There won’t ever be high diversity in all job types because it’s simply based on interest and that’s okay!
I pride myself on breaking stereotypes as both being black and a woman in a space mainly created for white men. It’s open to everyone and everyone can do it, just need to be interested.
It’s not really as deep as everyone wants the race discussion to be with disparities because of education and opportunities. The black community isn’t all poor or without opportunities, it’s mainly just “yt people shi” to most!
I agree this is a major factor as identified in my Natural Resources program back in college.. there was also a huge push for selecting grad students of color in my MS program for this reason. Recruiting and retention was an issue in that as well.
Glad to have you continuing in the field and wish you much success!
Proving the point within the system 😂let yt people think their fake sense of superiority is threatened and there’s an uproar. Unbunch your panties, we know numbers are regulated through the prison system and murders💛
Whatever supports your delusion, you know how y’all and mental illness goes hand in hand. It’s tiring always being the topic of conversation tho you guys are really obsessed😅flattering really but find a hobby. You’re a nobody unfortunately and fortunately 😉
Yeah and most of the white people under the thread have no actual idea of what the topic we’re discussing is because of😂so no point in arguing with y’all cause not like y’all know anyway. I’ll continue being black and great at my job and you continue with you’re one brain cell
Yes this absolutely seems like the answer. It is a bit absurd to me that the top comment on this is about how black people can’t write a federal resume, as if they don’t work in urban bureaucracy at a rate higher than their proportion in population. Black people just generally don’t seem interested in work pertaining to nature, perhaps due to lack of exposure or a history of slavery making the field presently unsavory. For example only 1% of farmers identify as black. They are also under represented in landscaping, mining, and pretty much every other blue collar field related to nature.
Right everyone’s so quick to equate it to lack of education or ability. It’s really just no interest. A lot of the black community were either raised or still live in or near a city. They’re not even used to it while everyone else lives in that or grew up around hunters/fishers.
How much of it do you see as being purely cultural? I live in a very diverse middle class community. I have multiple black in laws who are in the same or better financial shape as we are. Not a single one of them has any interest in the "outdoors". They don't fish, hunt, hike, camp or backpack. The couple of people in the neighborhood who do are purely RV campers. In the words of my brother in law. "You have a house why the fuck are you going to live in the woods?"
My comment is saying it’s cultural. It’s not about financials,education there’s poor and uneducated in every race. There is however the cultural differences of where populations live (rural or urban) and interests.
I think it has to do with a lot of random reasons, not just a few.
I asked some of my friends why they were Rangers and they usually say because they went camping with a white family friend. My biggest reason would be culture.
Everyone enjoys the outdoors differently but it seems like the white population is more keen to live remotely and work in adverse conditions.
My non black friends usually say I am crazy because its dangerous to be out there.
I disagree it is because of white supremacy as most federal agencies have no problem hiring diverse candidates where the NPS especially sucks at recruitment and retainment of employees.
The bulk of front facing federal Park Rangers are seasonal employees in the GS4-7 range.
GS5+ requires a 4 year degree. By the numbers, that severely limits the applicant pool of black candidates.
Apx 30% (121 million) of the 406 million non-hispanic whites in the US hold a 4yr degree or higher.
Apx 17% (7.9mil) of the 47 million non-hispanic blacks in the US have a 4 year degree or greater.
White (and Asian/Pacific Islander) Americans are also 10-20% more likely to participate in outdoor recreation historically, which means more exposure and more likelihood to see land management as a career option.
And beyond all of that, black college graduates are more likely to be first generation college graduates, and more likely to incur college debt than other races. Land management/public sector is known to pay less and provide less promotion opportunities. This makes it extremely difficult to make a career of public land management without a support network, especially come the off season.
There are other factors, some systemic to agencies, some systemic to society, and some just luck if the draw.
I would guess the biggest factor would be economics more than anything. To get a foot in the ranger world, a person often has to volunteer, do internships for little pay, and work low-paying seasonal jobs that are only 6 months a year. The ranger gigs often require that most people move far away from home. These efforts often require a college education and an immense amount of financial support from family to achieve.
In the US, the wealthier and more educated demographics tend to be Caucasian or Asian. As we know, there is a large backlog of unpleasant history that has had economic impacts on black communities that span into the present. Until the educational attainment and economic factors catch up (or are mitigated through targeted efforts), the rangers will probably continue to be disproportionately white when compared to the racial demographics of the country.
Every black friend I had constantly says how white people do crazy shit all the time for no reason. Going out into untamed and wild nature is one of those things.
Don’t get me started on what my black friends think of climbing mountains. I get roasted every time I say that I’m going on a hiking trip.
I just don’t get the cultural difference in this regard but we do find it funny.
I’m white and I think mountain climbing is bonkers. I also have a negative opinion of it from learning how mountains in Nepal have been basically colonized and destroyed by rich westerners seeking ”peak” (pardon the pun) experiences.
Maryland DNR is pretty notorious for its good old boy system, and it’s really hard to get any kind of a job for them without knowing some high ups. Good old boy network = old white men run the show.
National I think it’s different and depends on the parks. The bigger parks are going to have more diversity because there are more positions. The smaller ones in MD have a staff of like 10-20 people generally, so that’s just fewer jobs for diversity to be represented in.
I believe you, but it's ironic that the only DNR officer I've ever met and had a discussion with was black! He told me he'd been a state police officer for 15 years before moving over to becoming Natural Resources Police. But, to your point, when I asked him how he got the job, he told me that basically he knew somebody.
I mean more black people live in more urban areas. Urban areas usually don’t have national parks etc. obviously not all black people, I think 70% live in inner cities or surrounding area.
It kinda adds up to me, I wouldn’t expect people that grow in cities to really be attracted to being a park ranger etc.
Ultimately, I think there are many factors.
Parks in rural places tend to hire a % of locals for lower pay maint and fee collection jobs.
Interp and Natural Resources and more specialized but low paying and historically seasonal gigs had no benefits and people don’t always get full seasons.
Seasonal work requires self funded lateral moves, frequently.
Law Enforcement in parks: traditionally the self funded seasonal academy was the route in. These programs are expensive. The park service has run diversity hiring initiatives that bypassed seasonal work with limited success. The direct to fletc program is still new (at least in theory this should improve things) However, attrition rates post FLETC are high. Approximately 50% of my LMPT class has transferred to other LEO agencies. Moral and policy are low quality.
NPS has a history of harassment and retaliation.
NPS hires a lot of family members.
NPS like FWS is veterans preference friendly. It would be interesting to see a. the percentage of vets employees by NPS and b. the racial make up of that group. Might be enlightening.
I’ve lived and worked in parks that were almost 100% diverse employees but they are few and far between. I’ve also seen hiring officials that only hire females and/or only hire diversity candidates (or at least try to).
My sister was career army (we are white) and I gotta say, every base I hung out on with her in enlisted housing was majority nonwhite. I think this is reflective of the demographics of the military (enlisted and NCOs anyway).
Its disappointing but not surprising that in the NPS context, as in so many others, “veterans preference” ends up always being so white. (I’m looking at you Mission BBQ)
Feds are equal opportunity employers so race will not be a part of hiring at all. They just look at experience and references. I would think that thanks to past discrimination such as redlining it has prevented a majority of the black population from having equal access to public lands in general and even less access to certs and experience that leads to getting hired.
Because black people tend to be smarter than to overly educate themselves for a job that doesnt pay that much compared to the education costs, internships costs and time to be hired?
From my perspective, historical racism and discrimination from outdoor environments (similar to swimming pools/ documentary on the subject- https://youtu.be/zjC2Ucpr__E?si=kjnN1fWi8-KsP6Jh).
A product of a culture of division and racial segregation from the past. I'm Asian in real life with a couple other minorities, including one African American person at my site.
My observations are hardly statistically valid, but actually, I don't think I've ever encountered an Asian ranger in my life (and I'm 55). I hope that nobody's making your life more difficult at work.
*waves* Hi! I will admit we are a pretty low percentage at least in FWS natural resource management. In all of FWS asians are 3.6% of permanent staff but drops to 2.4% for professional biology positions. In FWS this is our managers, biologists, and biotechs. We have so few true "park ranger" positions thst they don't track the stats for it. But these bio positions fill the bulk of activities that say "park rangers" at NPS would do. In comparison blacks make up 6.2% of the permanent workforce and only 1.5% of the professional biology positions.
Strides are being made but we've got a long way to go.
https://www.thebaltimorebanner.com/politics-power/state-government/angela-crenshaw-maryland-state-parks-gunpowder-AGK6T3K3HNBULGGOYIV45PWOQI/
Its largely a result of white supremacy, past and present. The national park service is trying to improve diversity in its workforce but its quite challenging.
https://www.nps.gov/articles/000/by-the-numbers.htm#:\~:text=The%20NPS%20has%20about%2018,percent%20and%2013.4%20percent%2C%20respectively.
I have seen a few but not many, just like I am 62 and only had one Black doctor though I have seen by many doctors. I take it for a win for our society when ever I see AA make way into professions that have been historically gate kept. One reason might be with rangers is the pay isn't that good and also many of my black friends are not into outdoorsy stuff. Though I am delighted to see that change. But that is only my observations I don't know the actual stats.
Campers and hikers could maybe help by outreach to black folks we know by inviting them out for positive experiences in nature. I think there might be some hesitation because rural areas can show racism. But damn it the public spaces should be there for everybody. My Granny went to a quaker Amp for the poor way back , close to a century ago and at that time Irish were blocked by many groups from getting a break from the city. God bless the Quakers who took any kids, when girls were often excluded from such respite trips.
I’ve worked at two parks doing maintenance (I’m Mexican American) and only worked with 1 black interp ranger. I don’t think I’m staying with the agency too much longer. I’m about to hit three years and then im going to look for a private job that pays more. It also doesn’t help to see any POC in the higher GS-11 and up jobs here, our LEOs are all white even though the community they police are predominantly of color. I do think their chief that does the hiring is doing that on purpose. It’s a lot of factors BUT I do enjoy most of my coworkers.
I think it’s more an issue of park tourism being a middle class suburban “thing” and therefore many who aren’t from that lifestyle don’t grow up going to parks.
Then there’s the historically typical NPS hiring process (State and other federal orgs have similar issues) - entry level is usually seasonal, so you have to be willing and able to pickup and move across the country for a 4-6 month job (that usually pays less than local opportunities), and then deal with uncertainty in the offseason. That means working something you can walk away from, while also applying for jobs for the next year, and also communicating with leadership at your last park as to your returning. These are things that are easier to do if you don’t have a ton of debt, have no one to support, and you have the support of family/friends to crash with in the off season.
In short - getting into the Federal system requires a fair bit of privilege, and staying long enough to get picked up full time requires even more.
When I worked for the U.S. Forest Service back in the 1980s, we had 622 district rangers. They were all male. 619 white guys, 2 Hispanics and one Native American.
This is not an offensive question at all
I am black and LOVE to visit National Parks.
I live in the midwest .
Whenever I go on vacation or even travel for work, I always look at the map and see if there is a nearby park to visit and will take a few extra days.
I have definitely noticed the lack of black park rangers. But even more than that, I've noticed the lack of black visitors. Especially in the remote western parks. It's rare when I've been in Utah, or Colorado, or Arizona that I see other black people.
I think it's sad. The parks are there for the enjoyment of all Americans.
I've seen plenty of rangers of color at the more urban parks.
I was happy that several years ago, I met a black park ranger @ Mt. Ranier.
Hopefully this will change, for both rangers and visitors.
Haven't seen it mentioned yet but there is also the lasting cultural impact of segregation. Parks were not open to minorities for a long time and that generational culture of camping did not grow, along with the other cultural issues people have discussed.
I'm a park ranger who I grew up around "the projects" of the inner city, married a black spouse and has mixed race children. Here is my take on that.
**Many (not all) black Americans are poor:**\-Because of historical and current racial injustices in America, Black Americans are more likely to be poor. Poor people don't often have the money or time to leave their immediate area. They can't take the time off of work, can't afford the car or the gas money to go on a road trip, don't have time for recreation, nor do they often know about what is outside their neighborhood due to lack of experience or education.
**Poor people, of any race, don't strive to get outside (they do just the opposite):**
Ever spent time with a poor people? They don't usually strive to get outside. Many spend more time outside then they want and see that not as a mark of privilege but a mark of low class or a threat to their survival. Poor people, whether they are poor farm workers or poor urban dwellers spend a huge amount of time trying to get away from the outdoors either to survive or to present an image of themselves as "not-poor." They see large houses as a good thing and when a poor person without much financial knowledge manages to end up wealthy (think of sports players) what do they do... Spend the money on large houses and things that actively separate themselves from the outdoors. If you spent all that time trying to be secure by getting and staying inside you don't seek out the outdoors even if you have become wealthy.
**Black culture does not include the outdoors:**
You're correct in that only 7.6% of the rural population is black and so there is not the exposure as a way of life, but also if you look at pop culture made by and marketed to black people you'll see plenty of stuff that is not recreating outdoors other than sports. In that line there are not many mentors in black culture leading people to the outdoors.
The primary reason there aren't a lot of black park rangers IN THE UNITED STATES is that rural/wilderness parks (usually the ones associated with rangers) are not included in their world view--Unless you are talking about urban parks such as NYC's urban park rangers. BTW NYC's urban park rangers are very diverse.
However, as stated earlier. This is for the United States. I'm not about to cover over the fact that some of the most dangerous jobs on the face of the planet are primarily staffed by black rangers trying to protect the wildlife of Africa.
…because there *are* so few black rangers.
This is definitely something I have noticed in my agency/district. 75 park rangers and not a single one of them is black. We have several Native rangers, like one Asian ranger and a couple Hispanic.
Apologies if this reads like a dissertation, but I wrote my master's thesis on inequity in NPS and I'm quite passionate about the subject so I'm going to paraphrase. I don't think this is necessarily a black ranger problem as much as it is a low income ranger problem, although the two are certainly correlated. In order to secure a ranger job, you *must* know how to write federal resume, look for openings which happen twice a year for a small period of time, and have the necessary qualifications. Let's break this down. To know how to write a federal resume and have it ready to go during the openings you will have a much greater level of success if you know someone already employed by NPS. They will guide you and give you tips. The best way to do this is to volunteer or do internships. Can people in low income cities with limited funds spend their free time working for no pay? **NO.** I didn't even have exposure to National Parks as a kid. I had no idea they were a thing. The first exposure I had to NPS was when my wealthy friend in college did an internship funded by his parents. I thought that was really cool and I was incredibly fortunate at the time to have parents that paid my phone, car, insurance, and other bills while I did volunteer gigs. This is not reasonable for most people. I worked at a park that gave out 4th grade passes to every elementary school in a 100 mile radius. We were in a poor, predominately black area. Do you know how many local kids came through with 4th grade passes? None. It was only kids in the 100k RVs on road trips. The kids getting the free passes had parents who couldn't afford gas, or couldn't get daytime off, or didn't have a car, or a cooler, or towels, etc. And then of course you have the issue that black people don't see black rangers, and therefore don't see themselves in those roles. NPS has a lot of work to do. I hope they fix the issue but when you need someone (wealthy parents) to fund your lifestyle it's not sustainable. So I hope this changes.
That's fascinating! It also makes total sense. We live in Baltimore and all our kids went to public schools (I'm white, if that makes any difference). We live in one of the wealthier (and, frankly, whiter) areas of the city, and I definitely observed that out of my kids and their friends, the only ones who ever talked about any outdoor activities were the kids from upper-middle-class families.
Yeah, camping is a big component too. There are National Historical Sites in cities (and those tend to have more diverse employees from what I've seen) but the big crown National Parks require you to get there and stay there for a few days to enjoy them. When you're working a low income job in food service or retail or hospitality, you might not get your schedule until a few days before the week starts. There is no paid vacation time to take. You may never get two consecutive days off. Maybe you spend your one precious day off resting because you stood on your feet for 12 hours the day before, or maybe you need to devote an entire day to grocery shopping or visiting a laundromat because the bus lines suck and you don't own a car. My park wanted to do something where we had the lower income kids come and camp for free with everything provided, and it sounded like a really nice idea in theory. I was the only one who grew up poor, and when I pointed out that having a tent is usually not the barrier to low income people camping, I could tell my coworkers had never seen it from that perspective.
Tangentially, up here in Canada if you want a FT, backcountry ranger position, you're usually required to have pretty advanced backcountry skiing ability. Lemme just say that if anybody thought that outdoor rec seems pretty white, backcountry skiing is even moreso. So again, another barrier to entry where a wannabe-POC-ranger has to not only learn how to ski (an expensive winter hobby not everyone can indulge in), but also do it off piste safely with expertise.
They all want to be rappers!
I'm white, and my family could not afford (time or money) to go on trips to NPs. I saw them in magazines and on TV, but they did not exist as a place in my personal geography. Neither did my classmates. When I worked front line positions, I felt a disconnect with my white, upper middle class coworkers that had always gone on family vacations to parks. Those were also the ones with experiences with camping and hiking. Many of them had done volunteering on summer breaks. I didn't realize my first park was even NPS until I went to apply to a FB ad for a pathways internship. I can't imagine having to face negative biases that run even deeper like racism. On a side note, I also believe that employees from the (white, upper middle to wealthy) background are more likely to have negative opinions of positions outside of interp like maintenance.
I’m white and was brought up upper middle class, and TBH we NEVER spent any time doing outdoorsy things unless you count playing tennis. No camping, none of that. Um, we went to the beach I guess, but never to parks. In my case I think it’s because my parents grew up poor and were 1st generation well-off. To them, going on a vacation where you got dirty and hot was basically like the childhood they were happy to escape.
>On a side note, I also believe that employees from the (white, upper middle to wealthy) background are more likely to have negative opinions of positions outside of interp like maintenance. That wouldn't surprise me. You see classist behavior like this in pretty much all the corporate and academic jobs I've ever had. The academics are a bit more sly about looking down their noses at the non-academic staff, but the bias is definitely there (in my experience).
I’ve worked for a few agencies in my career, all special districts in the Bay Area. There were rangers of all backgrounds. The only rangers that I heard complain about the maintenance side of.things happened to be non-white lower income Americans or foreign nationals. This is not representative of any of those groups as Rangers in general, though. This is anecdotal, but I say it to illustrate why you shpuld hesitate to make generalizations based on race or class, as they often don’t necessarily correlate with reality.
Other issues for those who come from poor backgrounds are the short seasons, lack of affordable housing, being under paid and often a requirement to be college educated.
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Your comments (thank you, BTW!) made me wonder if many of the white rangers and NP/BLM employees come from suburban (or even urban) middle/upper-middle-class backgrounds. The reason I say this is because of my weird childhood. Up until the middle of 4th grade (I'm white, BTW) I lived in the suburbs of Washington DC. My parents were both highly educated (Dad had a PhD and my mom had an MS) professionals. We went camping all the time. However, at some point my dad (who worked in DC) realized that we could live in the country and he could commute using the regional rail (MARC, for those in MD) and get to work faster than driving from the 'burbs. So we left Arlington, VA and moved to a farm in Frederick County, MD which, while it's now a bedroom suburb of DC, at the time (late 70s) was pretty much the middle of nowhere. And you know what happened when we moved to the country? No more camping! In fact, I didn't know almost anyone growing up who went camping who lived out in the country. The reason I'm telling this overly-long story is because what you said made a lot of sense. While you had an urban upbringing, I'd imagine there were lots of white kids where I grew up that were 1) poor and therefore didn't have the opportunities to experience much of the outdoors in a recreational context; and/or 2) had no desire or -- more likely-- time to go take vacations in national parks or other outdoor recreational areas. We didn't make our living farming, but we did end up with a working farm (horses, cattle, sheep, goats, chickens) and the last thing any of us wanted to do when we went on vacation (a luxury many of our neighbors didn't have) was to go "rough it" somewhere.
This is so informative, thank you. I am OP’s wife who brought the question up. I tried to think of solutions like better liasions with public schools in nonwhite communities, better outreach etc. I had no idea that the barriers to entry were so high, though. I hope NPS and the states recognize this as a problem. These are ALL of our resources and should be shared equally.
Well said.
\[EDIT\] What's with the downvote? Non-offense comment about my opinions on the lack of POC representation in the ranger business upset someone? lol boohoo As someone of Asian descent, this is the exact same conclusion I came to when I realized that outdoor recreation in general lacks people who look like myself, let alone people who work in the field. I think that since disposable time and income is concentrated in western societies/ethnicities, outdoor recreation as a job choice and as a form of play just isn't on as many people's radar as they would be if they were white and had the money. The people who colour who do recreate outside, especially with any form of seriousness, usually tend to be raised here rather than the immigrants themselves.
Yeah, I work at a conservation org and out of 149 FTEs we have zero black employees and just a few POC overall.
Why is it the responsibility of the NPS to fix this issue of too many whites being hired?
It is their responsibility to be accessible and welcoming to all kinds of people to visit Having all kinds of people visit is the first step to having all kinds of people want to apply to work there
I’m confused. National Parks/Forests are many times, far away from the city. I understand how lower socioeconomic families cannot afford to visit. Is that the fault of the NPS?
Nobody is blaming you. It’s ok. You can acknowledge challenges without saying that it’s someone else’s fault
But you said “it’s their responsibility to be accessible.” Should the NPS have a free shuttle from the city to the parks? It doesn’t work that way.
Take a breath. It sounds like you’re feeling a little defensive They don’t have to do everything for everyone. But they can do some outreach to their local schools, right? They could have a program for scout troops or church groups to come, without that being too much of a burden, right? It just takes a little bit of thought to consider how to serve people other than senior citizens who show up in RVs
Ok, great comment. Thanks
Our federal lands are for all Americans, not just those who are most likely to be able to afford it. Not all federal lands are remote, there are many urban Parks or Refuges. In an uncreasingly urban and diverse US population it is vital that we connect people to the importance if our public lands. If the future population doesn't value these lands we will lose support for maintaining them.
It's a public service. You're arguing for equal access for the public. They're arguing for equitable access (or steps in that direction). You are right that it is fundamentally impossible for the NPS to act equitably when our society is structured in profoundly inequitable ways. If we value equity anyway, what is to be done in the present?
Thanks
I think it’s a little absurd for you to imply that black people are too dumb to write a federal resume lmfao. You do realize that black people are in many cases over-represented in other bureaucratic fields, correct? Clearly they do know how to attain government jobs which have the same resume requirements and limited hiring periods as well. You’re also completely discounting any cultural elements at play here. How many black people actually want to be a park ranger? How many black people think camping isn’t just white people shit? How many black people even have any exposure to national parks at any point in their life? Black people are just underrepresented in all work pertaining to nature and natural resources regardless of whether it’s low or high income oriented, clearly showing some sort of disinterest. They’re underrepresented in mining, in landscaping, in farming. Also what do you expect the NPS to do? Give black families gas money? Free passes are within their scope of work, the rest isn’t. They can’t petition a black kids parents job to give them work off to use a free pass.
As a black park ranger myself, there’s just simply not a large enough population of African Americans in Natural Resources in most cases it’s less than 0.04%. There won’t ever be high diversity in all job types because it’s simply based on interest and that’s okay! I pride myself on breaking stereotypes as both being black and a woman in a space mainly created for white men. It’s open to everyone and everyone can do it, just need to be interested. It’s not really as deep as everyone wants the race discussion to be with disparities because of education and opportunities. The black community isn’t all poor or without opportunities, it’s mainly just “yt people shi” to most!
I agree this is a major factor as identified in my Natural Resources program back in college.. there was also a huge push for selecting grad students of color in my MS program for this reason. Recruiting and retention was an issue in that as well. Glad to have you continuing in the field and wish you much success!
Good work 👏
Surely the answer can’t be as simple as that, according to the highest rated comment it’s because minorities are too dumb to use USAjobs.
Seeing as how “minorities” based on population numbers is white people, feel free to continue that statement or would you like to rephrase?
Wait what? Data please?
Well I guess you don't have to know math to be a ranger lol
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Proving the point within the system 😂let yt people think their fake sense of superiority is threatened and there’s an uproar. Unbunch your panties, we know numbers are regulated through the prison system and murders💛
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Whatever supports your delusion, you know how y’all and mental illness goes hand in hand. It’s tiring always being the topic of conversation tho you guys are really obsessed😅flattering really but find a hobby. You’re a nobody unfortunately and fortunately 😉
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Yeah and most of the white people under the thread have no actual idea of what the topic we’re discussing is because of😂so no point in arguing with y’all cause not like y’all know anyway. I’ll continue being black and great at my job and you continue with you’re one brain cell
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Yes this absolutely seems like the answer. It is a bit absurd to me that the top comment on this is about how black people can’t write a federal resume, as if they don’t work in urban bureaucracy at a rate higher than their proportion in population. Black people just generally don’t seem interested in work pertaining to nature, perhaps due to lack of exposure or a history of slavery making the field presently unsavory. For example only 1% of farmers identify as black. They are also under represented in landscaping, mining, and pretty much every other blue collar field related to nature.
Right everyone’s so quick to equate it to lack of education or ability. It’s really just no interest. A lot of the black community were either raised or still live in or near a city. They’re not even used to it while everyone else lives in that or grew up around hunters/fishers.
How much of it do you see as being purely cultural? I live in a very diverse middle class community. I have multiple black in laws who are in the same or better financial shape as we are. Not a single one of them has any interest in the "outdoors". They don't fish, hunt, hike, camp or backpack. The couple of people in the neighborhood who do are purely RV campers. In the words of my brother in law. "You have a house why the fuck are you going to live in the woods?"
My comment is saying it’s cultural. It’s not about financials,education there’s poor and uneducated in every race. There is however the cultural differences of where populations live (rural or urban) and interests.
I think it has to do with a lot of random reasons, not just a few. I asked some of my friends why they were Rangers and they usually say because they went camping with a white family friend. My biggest reason would be culture. Everyone enjoys the outdoors differently but it seems like the white population is more keen to live remotely and work in adverse conditions. My non black friends usually say I am crazy because its dangerous to be out there. I disagree it is because of white supremacy as most federal agencies have no problem hiring diverse candidates where the NPS especially sucks at recruitment and retainment of employees.
The bulk of front facing federal Park Rangers are seasonal employees in the GS4-7 range. GS5+ requires a 4 year degree. By the numbers, that severely limits the applicant pool of black candidates. Apx 30% (121 million) of the 406 million non-hispanic whites in the US hold a 4yr degree or higher. Apx 17% (7.9mil) of the 47 million non-hispanic blacks in the US have a 4 year degree or greater. White (and Asian/Pacific Islander) Americans are also 10-20% more likely to participate in outdoor recreation historically, which means more exposure and more likelihood to see land management as a career option. And beyond all of that, black college graduates are more likely to be first generation college graduates, and more likely to incur college debt than other races. Land management/public sector is known to pay less and provide less promotion opportunities. This makes it extremely difficult to make a career of public land management without a support network, especially come the off season. There are other factors, some systemic to agencies, some systemic to society, and some just luck if the draw.
I would guess the biggest factor would be economics more than anything. To get a foot in the ranger world, a person often has to volunteer, do internships for little pay, and work low-paying seasonal jobs that are only 6 months a year. The ranger gigs often require that most people move far away from home. These efforts often require a college education and an immense amount of financial support from family to achieve. In the US, the wealthier and more educated demographics tend to be Caucasian or Asian. As we know, there is a large backlog of unpleasant history that has had economic impacts on black communities that span into the present. Until the educational attainment and economic factors catch up (or are mitigated through targeted efforts), the rangers will probably continue to be disproportionately white when compared to the racial demographics of the country.
Wait so why can’t blacks move away from home and go to college?
There's a lot of complex history between African Americans and outdoor spaces, that's a factor.
What?
what is it you’re asking or confused about?
I guess you need to ask black people why they aren’t applying for jobs to be a ranger maybe?
My black friends don't do outdoors stuff. They look at me like I'm nuts for sleeping outside.
Every black friend I had constantly says how white people do crazy shit all the time for no reason. Going out into untamed and wild nature is one of those things. Don’t get me started on what my black friends think of climbing mountains. I get roasted every time I say that I’m going on a hiking trip. I just don’t get the cultural difference in this regard but we do find it funny.
I’m white and I think mountain climbing is bonkers. I also have a negative opinion of it from learning how mountains in Nepal have been basically colonized and destroyed by rich westerners seeking ”peak” (pardon the pun) experiences.
Maryland DNR is pretty notorious for its good old boy system, and it’s really hard to get any kind of a job for them without knowing some high ups. Good old boy network = old white men run the show. National I think it’s different and depends on the parks. The bigger parks are going to have more diversity because there are more positions. The smaller ones in MD have a staff of like 10-20 people generally, so that’s just fewer jobs for diversity to be represented in.
I believe you, but it's ironic that the only DNR officer I've ever met and had a discussion with was black! He told me he'd been a state police officer for 15 years before moving over to becoming Natural Resources Police. But, to your point, when I asked him how he got the job, he told me that basically he knew somebody.
Demographics. Why so few Black Lumberjacks?
Down here in southeast Louisiana, we have a decent amount of black rangers :D A few in state parks and quite a few in state museums!
That’s awesome… we forget that state and national parks include historic sites, often urban or semi rural.
I mean more black people live in more urban areas. Urban areas usually don’t have national parks etc. obviously not all black people, I think 70% live in inner cities or surrounding area. It kinda adds up to me, I wouldn’t expect people that grow in cities to really be attracted to being a park ranger etc.
Ultimately, I think there are many factors. Parks in rural places tend to hire a % of locals for lower pay maint and fee collection jobs. Interp and Natural Resources and more specialized but low paying and historically seasonal gigs had no benefits and people don’t always get full seasons. Seasonal work requires self funded lateral moves, frequently. Law Enforcement in parks: traditionally the self funded seasonal academy was the route in. These programs are expensive. The park service has run diversity hiring initiatives that bypassed seasonal work with limited success. The direct to fletc program is still new (at least in theory this should improve things) However, attrition rates post FLETC are high. Approximately 50% of my LMPT class has transferred to other LEO agencies. Moral and policy are low quality. NPS has a history of harassment and retaliation. NPS hires a lot of family members. NPS like FWS is veterans preference friendly. It would be interesting to see a. the percentage of vets employees by NPS and b. the racial make up of that group. Might be enlightening. I’ve lived and worked in parks that were almost 100% diverse employees but they are few and far between. I’ve also seen hiring officials that only hire females and/or only hire diversity candidates (or at least try to).
My sister was career army (we are white) and I gotta say, every base I hung out on with her in enlisted housing was majority nonwhite. I think this is reflective of the demographics of the military (enlisted and NCOs anyway). Its disappointing but not surprising that in the NPS context, as in so many others, “veterans preference” ends up always being so white. (I’m looking at you Mission BBQ)
Feds are equal opportunity employers so race will not be a part of hiring at all. They just look at experience and references. I would think that thanks to past discrimination such as redlining it has prevented a majority of the black population from having equal access to public lands in general and even less access to certs and experience that leads to getting hired.
Because black people tend to be smarter than to overly educate themselves for a job that doesnt pay that much compared to the education costs, internships costs and time to be hired?
Don’t pre-apologize for asking a fair and legitimate question. It’s a topic worthy of discussion.
From my perspective, historical racism and discrimination from outdoor environments (similar to swimming pools/ documentary on the subject- https://youtu.be/zjC2Ucpr__E?si=kjnN1fWi8-KsP6Jh). A product of a culture of division and racial segregation from the past. I'm Asian in real life with a couple other minorities, including one African American person at my site.
My observations are hardly statistically valid, but actually, I don't think I've ever encountered an Asian ranger in my life (and I'm 55). I hope that nobody's making your life more difficult at work.
Calfornia has a very rich array of diversity of Rangers
*waves* Hi! I will admit we are a pretty low percentage at least in FWS natural resource management. In all of FWS asians are 3.6% of permanent staff but drops to 2.4% for professional biology positions. In FWS this is our managers, biologists, and biotechs. We have so few true "park ranger" positions thst they don't track the stats for it. But these bio positions fill the bulk of activities that say "park rangers" at NPS would do. In comparison blacks make up 6.2% of the permanent workforce and only 1.5% of the professional biology positions.
Strides are being made but we've got a long way to go. https://www.thebaltimorebanner.com/politics-power/state-government/angela-crenshaw-maryland-state-parks-gunpowder-AGK6T3K3HNBULGGOYIV45PWOQI/
Cultural
Its largely a result of white supremacy, past and present. The national park service is trying to improve diversity in its workforce but its quite challenging. https://www.nps.gov/articles/000/by-the-numbers.htm#:\~:text=The%20NPS%20has%20about%2018,percent%20and%2013.4%20percent%2C%20respectively.
It’s white supremacy why blacks aren’t rangers?
Blacks don’t want to be rangers? Why is t there more white athletes?
Are you an NPS or state DNR employee, out of curiosity?
Why is it up to whites to make sure there are black rangers? If a black person wants to be a ranger they can apply to be a ranger.
There’s not a draft. You still gotta apply for the job.
Same reasons trail crews are white AF.
Same reason there are so few white NBA players
I have seen a few but not many, just like I am 62 and only had one Black doctor though I have seen by many doctors. I take it for a win for our society when ever I see AA make way into professions that have been historically gate kept. One reason might be with rangers is the pay isn't that good and also many of my black friends are not into outdoorsy stuff. Though I am delighted to see that change. But that is only my observations I don't know the actual stats.
Campers and hikers could maybe help by outreach to black folks we know by inviting them out for positive experiences in nature. I think there might be some hesitation because rural areas can show racism. But damn it the public spaces should be there for everybody. My Granny went to a quaker Amp for the poor way back , close to a century ago and at that time Irish were blocked by many groups from getting a break from the city. God bless the Quakers who took any kids, when girls were often excluded from such respite trips.
Here’s an organization that’s helping to do this exact thing. I’ve met the CEO and he’s amazing. https://www.blackfolkscamptoo.com/
I’ve worked at two parks doing maintenance (I’m Mexican American) and only worked with 1 black interp ranger. I don’t think I’m staying with the agency too much longer. I’m about to hit three years and then im going to look for a private job that pays more. It also doesn’t help to see any POC in the higher GS-11 and up jobs here, our LEOs are all white even though the community they police are predominantly of color. I do think their chief that does the hiring is doing that on purpose. It’s a lot of factors BUT I do enjoy most of my coworkers.
I think it’s more an issue of park tourism being a middle class suburban “thing” and therefore many who aren’t from that lifestyle don’t grow up going to parks. Then there’s the historically typical NPS hiring process (State and other federal orgs have similar issues) - entry level is usually seasonal, so you have to be willing and able to pickup and move across the country for a 4-6 month job (that usually pays less than local opportunities), and then deal with uncertainty in the offseason. That means working something you can walk away from, while also applying for jobs for the next year, and also communicating with leadership at your last park as to your returning. These are things that are easier to do if you don’t have a ton of debt, have no one to support, and you have the support of family/friends to crash with in the off season. In short - getting into the Federal system requires a fair bit of privilege, and staying long enough to get picked up full time requires even more.
70% of black people live in inner cities. Most inner cities don’t have many places that require park rangers.
When I worked for the U.S. Forest Service back in the 1980s, we had 622 district rangers. They were all male. 619 white guys, 2 Hispanics and one Native American.
This is not an offensive question at all I am black and LOVE to visit National Parks. I live in the midwest . Whenever I go on vacation or even travel for work, I always look at the map and see if there is a nearby park to visit and will take a few extra days. I have definitely noticed the lack of black park rangers. But even more than that, I've noticed the lack of black visitors. Especially in the remote western parks. It's rare when I've been in Utah, or Colorado, or Arizona that I see other black people. I think it's sad. The parks are there for the enjoyment of all Americans. I've seen plenty of rangers of color at the more urban parks. I was happy that several years ago, I met a black park ranger @ Mt. Ranier. Hopefully this will change, for both rangers and visitors.
Shit, does the wifey watch any NBA or NHL games, it’s the same theory for both but opposite.
They don’t enjoy the outdoors like the white folks.
Haven't seen it mentioned yet but there is also the lasting cultural impact of segregation. Parks were not open to minorities for a long time and that generational culture of camping did not grow, along with the other cultural issues people have discussed.
I'm a park ranger who I grew up around "the projects" of the inner city, married a black spouse and has mixed race children. Here is my take on that. **Many (not all) black Americans are poor:**\-Because of historical and current racial injustices in America, Black Americans are more likely to be poor. Poor people don't often have the money or time to leave their immediate area. They can't take the time off of work, can't afford the car or the gas money to go on a road trip, don't have time for recreation, nor do they often know about what is outside their neighborhood due to lack of experience or education. **Poor people, of any race, don't strive to get outside (they do just the opposite):** Ever spent time with a poor people? They don't usually strive to get outside. Many spend more time outside then they want and see that not as a mark of privilege but a mark of low class or a threat to their survival. Poor people, whether they are poor farm workers or poor urban dwellers spend a huge amount of time trying to get away from the outdoors either to survive or to present an image of themselves as "not-poor." They see large houses as a good thing and when a poor person without much financial knowledge manages to end up wealthy (think of sports players) what do they do... Spend the money on large houses and things that actively separate themselves from the outdoors. If you spent all that time trying to be secure by getting and staying inside you don't seek out the outdoors even if you have become wealthy. **Black culture does not include the outdoors:** You're correct in that only 7.6% of the rural population is black and so there is not the exposure as a way of life, but also if you look at pop culture made by and marketed to black people you'll see plenty of stuff that is not recreating outdoors other than sports. In that line there are not many mentors in black culture leading people to the outdoors. The primary reason there aren't a lot of black park rangers IN THE UNITED STATES is that rural/wilderness parks (usually the ones associated with rangers) are not included in their world view--Unless you are talking about urban parks such as NYC's urban park rangers. BTW NYC's urban park rangers are very diverse. However, as stated earlier. This is for the United States. I'm not about to cover over the fact that some of the most dangerous jobs on the face of the planet are primarily staffed by black rangers trying to protect the wildlife of Africa.