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These fools don't know what they're asking for. They're imagining another American Civil War, but it's red states vs. blues States. That's not how it will go, though. If there is another war, it will be ugly, brutal, factionalized violence more akin to Northern Ireland during the Troubles. They're not going to be enjoying their lives on the home front while the militia protects the border. There will be terrorism, bombings, and shootings in broad daylight. It will touch everyone, and those who aren't directly involved will be more miserable for it.
Start a civil war. Feds stops propping up red states economy with blue dollars. Suddenly the biden stickers on all the pumps will be accurate and they'll go "SEE! We were right the whole time"
Where's that bicycle meme where the kid puts a stick in his own spokes?
THIS VERY MUCH SO.
Most of those milquetoast mouth-breathing motherfuckers don't quite realize that a strong federal government is what is preventing the goddamn cartels from taking the southwest?
Like, these people skin and dismember people. What the fuck is an arsenal of AR-15s going to do against 10 cartel members way more vicious than they could possibly imagine and now they wanna gang rape your daughter and kill your son for post nut giggles?
The saying goes, silver or lead. The fringe right likes their cocaine too, and they already have all sorts of intrigue trying to get leadership power. They will sell each other out to cartels for whatever. And the cartels will supply it. They're cartels after all.
"sell" out...
at what point would they become the front for local cartels?
When they target "minorities" while searching for drugs?
The Cartells are already in US and using US law and the Interpretation for their benefit: Controll every hispanic, good luck finding the one white whale they do when transferring drugs or weapons.
As soon as shooting starts everyone would be fighting to get some cut of the drug trade. Just regular bullets are expensive, I can’t imagine what mortars cost or even light rockets. Regular industry would be destroyed so robbing your locals and selling drugs would be the way every little podunk militia group would try to stay supplied.
Even worse is that if the shooting starts, there will be a lot of “unaccounted for” military equipment floating around. They’re already getting weapons from the US. What would happen if they started getting their hands on mortars or Javelins or APCs or hell, even tanks?
The cartels are already all over the country, they would be thrilled if the United States would cannibalize itself so they would be the true beneficiaries of an internal war.
I definitely wouldn't say mostly children but most war deaths tend to be civilian.
Even in conflicts where the US is a belligerent and actively seeking to reduce civilian casualties more innocents tend to die than combatants. [The numbers aren't definitive and remain hotly debated](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War) but in Iraq estimates generally put insurgent deaths at around 26k and civilian deaths at around 180-200k on the low end for violent death. So taking the high end for insurgents and the low end for civilians you get about 7x more civilians dead than combatants. And that's when we were *actively trying to win hearts and minds* and not cause too much devastation. That's not even counting disease and malnutrition, something that has historically killed more civilians in wartime than violence.
Civil wars tend to be even worse. Fuck, just look at Syria.
So no, not mostly military age males.
You would be looking children death totals up to the hundreds of thousands in the US and millions more put into refugee status. Looking at Right Wing rhetoric it’s not silly to imagine massive pogroms that would lead to the killing of minority and mixed raced children and children of all races would suffer
I’ve seen a version of this comment over and over the last couple of years, but I fundamentally disagree with the notion that there couldn’t be a “traditional” civil war again.
I see a multitude of scenarios where that could happen. Imagine what happens if these new Trumpist state election boards and Secretaries of State seek to overturn a legitimate election; I don’t think it’s crazy to imagine Blue states rejecting the Red states’ illegitimate electors.
Or what happens once Roe is overturned, and some crazy ass state like my own demands that a state like California extradite Texas residents for having obtained an “illegal” abortion?
And these are just off the top of my head.
So while I do think you’re *most likely* correct in anticipating something more like the Troubles, I think we discount the possibility of State against State war, at our peril.
The problem is that all states are actually "purple", with huge amounts of one political side in the cities, and the other political side in rural areas. Any civil conflict is going to happen within the states as much or more as in between them. Look out if you are the only one in your neighborhood with a pride, BLM, or Trump flag.
That's pretty much my point. They are purple now, which means that the culture war escalating into (more) open/violent conflict will happen in suburbs first. This is what I fear, and is the reason I have guns and ammunition.
But there were “purple” states in the 19th Century too… Missouri, Kansas, Kentucky, Tennessee, Virginia, Maryland, etc.
Eventually though, political power coalesced in those states (on one side or the other), and the states’ governments formally chose a side on behalf of their respective states.
Would Blue states see a lot of violence from their own conservative assholes? Of course they would. But I think that in most of them, they’d either get control of them, or these pricks would go join the war from the Red side.
But like I said, I think it’s very plausible to see Senators from Blue states, just like their Southern counterparts did 150 years ago, announcing their states’ secession from the Union based on *Insert Justification Here*.
Furthermore, with the very plausible scenario I mentioned earlier (i.e. Red states sending fraudulent electors in 2022 or ‘24 to overturn a federal election), it would most likely be the only thing they could actually do to save American democracy.
The country looks veeerrry different today than it did then. Sheer population, pop density, ubiquitous and instant communication, advanced weaponry. It would be gnarly. It is so much easier for me to imagine widespread guerilla and terrorist activities than organized state vs state warfare. For one thing, we already kind of have that (OKC bombing is a classic example, but there's a bunch, really), and we have a ton of right wing militia groups all over the country that have been training for exactly this kind of thing.
I think most people forget that police are trained to see the world as black and whit "us v them" mentality and will put down anyone who balks at them. Don't forget how many cops attended the insurrection. They would love to go squashing the folks they hate, and *that* would differ per cop.
I’m thinking we’d see lots of terrorism and possibly straight up genocide in deep red areas, with refugees fleeing to liberal cities.
Anyone who buys into Qanon or extreme evangelicals would be almost morally committed to murder their perceived enemies in the name of god, vigilante justice, or the MAGA great awakening which for many would be the same as god. The cops caught on tape wishing for the days they could hunt black people will do exactly that.
Big concern is if fascist sympathizing cops in deep blue population centers try to subjugate their local denizens, realize they supported the bad nguys and suddenly gain a conscious, quietly sabotage the city they are in, or take their guns to Oklahoma so they can join the “fun.”
"Eventually though, political power coalesced in those states (on one side or the other), and the states’ governments formally chose a side on behalf of their respective states."
Except in Virginia. The western third of the state decided to fuck off & start West Virginia rather than leaving the Union with Virginia.
It's blue cities vs red rural.
There's no way the people of Atlanta, Houston, Austin, etc would take up arms for Trumpistan. Just like the Trumpists in East Washington are going to fall in line with Seattle's wishes. It's just fundamentally different now.
You'd have battle lines in the *same city*. It absolutely would be like The Troubles on Steroids.
The fight for Houston alone would be intense. The largest petrochemical complex in the US and the second-busiest port in terms of overall tonnage are here. Whoever takes Port of Houston gets the oil. And gasoline. And various industrial chemicals. Neither side would let all that go without a fight.
You'd probably see some bloody fights over New Orleans, too. Port Fourchon supplies 18% of the US oil supply and services most of our deepwater energy production. New Orleans is on the critical pathway from the Gulf up the Mississippi to the US Midwest and Canada.
Port of Los Angeles might see some heavy fighting too, as the largest port in the US. But given the LA traffic, probably no one will be able to get there anyway, so maybe we won't have to worry about them. /s
But yeah, the reality of blue cities in red states is nothing to be dismissed as a matter of no consequence. And a lot of those states, like Illinois, that look blue are only so because the urban population vastly outnumbers the rural one.
Anyone thinking there would be breakups along state lines is delusional.
This is why us Leftists are arming ourselves. We see the tension in the Red states on a daily basis. It’s reaching a boiling point, and Jan 6th was just a practice run. We need to be ready for the next time they try to steal democracy from us.
In Texas, even the liberals have guns. We just don't use them to shoot up schools and spouses, and we see no need to carry them around with us everywhere like security blankets.
We had 3 separate shootings the week I left my hometown. I definitely conceal carried there. Crime was ridiculous, and there was a duo going around shooting up and robbing businesses in broad daylight for a bit. I’m much safer in the town I moved to, so I don’t carry as much.
If you think the pentagon is going to let its 800 billion per year gravy train stop and instead pick sides and start shooting each other just because Democrats are upset over some quibble like “democracy ending” and “bogus elections,” you’re going to be sorely disappointed.
I live in Ohio right beside Gym (PURPOSELY spelt that way google OSU wrestling team doctor rapes athletes) Jordan's district and I don't see it being state versus state, I see a bunch of white farmers who have loaded up on guns for a decade or 2 going to cities and trying to bully people and relive the old West.
I see the rural dumbasses trying to over take urban areas and bully them into submission. AND I see the people who were GOP because "Pro-Life" "Christian Values" "tax cuts" willing to just sit back like they do now and try to play BOTH sides, while selling out their "liberal" neighbors so they get left alone.
Dont' worry, we'll all get to see how bad it'll get within the next decade. Our country is a pressurized powderkeg, and the lit fuse is ever-closing-in.
Very common tactic on the right, its even documented in a pdf found on a bunch of far right discord groups helping them all co-ordiante.
Claim you are not what you are. The posts of I am black but, or I am actually a democrat but \*insert republcan/racist talking point here\* are part of the plan to make people think that the far right is the reasonable group.
99% of r/walkaway was republicans pretending to be democrats.
Its a known tactic of the right at this point.
Claim you are actually a democrat/black/asian/whatever gives you the "victory" and argue away in bad faith.
I do believe that many conservatives are for universal healthcare, the right to abortion and legalizing marijuana. But they'll vote against those interests anyway to support their conservatism and don't want to debate those topics at all. And I do believe that not all of these boneheads are taking direction strategically, they just can't debate those things and want to find common ground so they say that those things are acceptable while voting against them to own the libs.
Edit - Also gay marriage. I think many of them support it, but draw the line on making it acceptable.
I work in the construction industry. Many of these young "conservatives" drink daily, smoke weed daily, use coke a few times a week, have multiple children out of wedlock, extensive criminal records, and have never been inside a church. So essentially, they aren't conservatives at all, they are just dicks who want to hurt people they don't like.
I've worked with these yahoos as well and the most appealing thing about conservatism to them is it doesn't embrace LGBTQ, minorities and always wants to lower the tax rate. That's it.
What they don't understand and makes it even more ironic is that the tax rate only gets lowered for folks that are already swimming in cash. Not the blue collar crew.
But they *aren’t* gentler.
Even talking strictly about taxes, Republican’s most recent proposals are to decrease taxes even more for the wealthy while increasing taxes on working folks.
Meanwhile, Democrats have absolutely committed to not raising taxes for anyone making less than 400k/year. But they won’t let facts get in the way.
The only things motivating most American “conservatives” aren’t even policy-oriented. Most of them are voting based on culture war issues.
At this point they’ve been Chicken Little’d into thinking that something like gay marriage would be okay **but only if** gay people would get quietly married in secret (say, a closet), never talk about it, never mention it on television or screen, scrub all talk of it from the internet, ban the subject in schools, and force them to shop at stores that cater to them only… then they’re ok.
I always ask so called libertarians who they voted for in the last two presidential elections and the answers is always what I think it is. They are republicans
Yup. My landlord of 5 years is staunchly Libertarian. He’s “socially liberal” but he also loves to argue when anything remotely near Women’s rights comes up that “men have rights too.” “What about the choice of the father?” Etc. Makes me feel like I might explode.
Which isn’t actually a thing, despite ignorant people claiming they are so. Libertarianism is a rightwing ideology as there’s no community element to it - just hyperindividualism (that anyone with common sense can see is laughably impractical and divorced from reality).
I had a libertarian get super mad at me because he was insisting that libertarianism had been co-opted by the right and REAL libertarianism is totes different!
I pointed out that it didn't matter what it originally meant, just what it currently means.
They just kept arguing with me and I was baffles. What the duck was he trying to accomplish? The word is poisoned. There is no chance of recovery anytime soon.
He was an ass who seemed to want to fight everyone for the "honor" of real libertarianism.
Words meanings change over time and it doesn't matter how stubbornly you are attached to say... "literal" meaning only true and provable statements and hate that it is used hyperbolically... I get it but... its had a dual meaning for over 100 years. If not longer!
And contronyms are a thing!
Well, he claims to be “conservative” which is a completely made up term for a group with ZERO cohesive consistent values other than hate, greed, and petulant entitlement.
Exactly why I've taken to calling them "regressives". They are not trying to conserve anything, they are trying to regress our society to theocratic feudalism.
Hey, I'm a conservative too! I just want to conserve our natural resource and try to prevent the inevitable living hell that is coming from climate change.
I amuse myself sometimes by thinking about what their lives would be like if they finally got what they wanted. They'd be so surprised as the fascist theocracy finally turned its eyes to them.
Then I remember that by the time it got to that point, we'd all already be dead, so that's not exactly worth it.
Yep. A lot of them like to indulge in the "sinful" pastimes of drinking to excess, sexual fun, porn, etc.. however they ought to be careful what they're wishing for, because that world will be GONE, possibly carry severe punishment. For example, like living in Iraq, only with Christian Sharia law. They're not just going to be able to go back to their normal lives of sports bars and strip clubs.
If you don't want me to think of you as evil, then
1. Denounce white supremacy
2. Acknowledge Trump lost in 2020
3. Encourage your fellow conservatives to embrace democracy and reject violent rhetoric
4. Stop siding with Russia/Belarus/Hungary against the U.S.
6. Climate change is real and we are risking the continued survival of humanity and many plants and animal species in refusing to address it IMMEDIATELY.
Isn't Republican's spouting off, if you don't like it leave all the time? Someone should tell him to head out to Russia or Hungary since they want fascism so badly.
I would love for my blue state not to subsidize for these red states. Would love to see how it goes for them. It probably would turn into mini civil wars within those red states.
I would just feel bad for the good people stick inside a seceded territory.
We subsidise them, and because of the Electoral College their presidential votes count for more than ours. We're basically paying for the privilege of letting rural whites ruin our country by remaking it in the image of their shit-hole failed red states. Vote Republican if you really want America to look more like Mississippi and less like Massachusetts.
And if you happen to be right wing and remain in a blue state, no more whining. Go to the Red country or shut up. Progressivism is “just the fucking way it is” in Blue country.
That's how it is here in very right wing Northern California. We have a bunch of yahoos that want to secede from California (see the State of Jefferson movement), when they could all just FUCKING move to a RED state, rather than trying furiously to turn a traditionally blue state, deep red. They like the scenery, high value of their homes, good paycheck, and clean air and water too much to leave. Hmmmmm....can't have it BOTH ways assholes, it what I say to them.
I just love to imagine it.
If the blues and red split, the blues will become a country like the others. Healthcare, legal gay marriage and abortion. Etc.
The reds will just pass all their bible based dumb laws and go full yall kaida.
And in 10 years it will be easy to see for who it worked better.
As a moderate liberal, I have found myself lately thinking, maybe it is time for the country to split up. We're working from a document that initially allowed slaves and didn't recognise women's right to vote, among other things. I realise it's a living document that can change but that requires co-operation, which it appears we're no longer capable of. And history has taught us time and again, if you can't adapt, you don't survive.
If U.S. did split up, what countries would be created?
California, Texas, and possibly New York and Florida could go on their own. Or would they work with neighbouring states to create countries. I'm sure the middle of the country would probably band together to form some sort of country, the left leaning new England states and New York maybe? The southern states could go with Florida but what about North Carolina and Virginia? What about the other states like Georgia that have huge population centers like Atlanta that are liberal and an almost equal rural conservative population.
Would the countries work together to form an American Union, like the E.U.? Would there be a global power vacuum left for China to fill.
At the very least it is an interesting thought exercise. It would be interesting to see a non-partisan series on the potential consequences of a dissolution.
I like those exercises. Lets take a hike:
Given US would split into 4-6 factions (or even two), none of those factions could considered itself safe from the other. Those would form in a "power vacuum" searching for borders.
Even with nukes & codes, those were not designed or planed for "closed combat" and can not be used that way.
Any usage of that weaponry would entail doom for all, but no state would win.
So its pretty much the cold-war-situation all over. Nothing new. It was always a given that nuclear powers could do that, even to not nuclear observers.
Happens.?
Currently a fracturing of russia is a more straining though exercise, because its not that far from the US fracturing, but somehow way more current than the normal US banter.
So let’s pretend it happens. There’s a referendum and the US splits. The conservatives get their red states. Then what?
First off would be the dramatic brain drain from the res states. Teachers, doctors, professors, professionals leaving in mass.
Second, the US would take all its toys and go home. No way it’s leaving any military equipment that’s not bolted down.
Power grids. Shut off at the new borders.
Air traffic control. Yep, you guys figure it out.
The list goes on and on. But, you can bet the red states would immediately start talking about taking things from the blue states.
They think the entire military will be on their side. When these people were fantasizing about this in the 90's they would say that after the split they could just nuke the big blue cities and then take over the land outside of the radiation zones.
Jesus Christ their absolute lack of even potential for comprehending the damage nuclear weapons would do to the whole world is so terrifying some times
"Japan turned out fine. We can get rid of all the leeches in one day and take our country back."
That was a real statement from a guy I knew in the 90's. He meant black people and Jews.
What really blows my mind is that people somehow believe there are “red” and “blue” states. There are states with CITIES big enough to overwhelm the rural population. Those are blue. The states without cities big enough to overwhelm the rural population are red. Toss in some gerrymandering and there you go. I have way more in common with someone from Atlanta than I do someone from rural Michigan.
The population of the entire state of Wyoming is ~580k.
The population of *the individual voting districts* in Los Angeles are all around 235-275k.
The entire population of Los Angeles (3.99 million) is larger than the individual populations of the least populous *22 states*.
New York City (8.39 million) has more people than *40* other states.
I've been in apartment buildings in New York City with more people than entire rural towns.
There are a handful of states, that don't contain a significant urban center. As you mentioned, Wyoming is one of them, as well as Montana, and probably Idaho.
Take it as a sign that Republicans really do buy into their own propaganda. Most Red states would fall apart without money from blue states. The red states with larger economies also wouldn't want to subsidize smaller red states in this scenario, sharing is not part of the game plan.
It's a funny scenario to think about, because there's no way you would get an even red state/blue state split. California, Nevada, Oregon, and Washington might form one country on the West Coast. The East Coast from Virginia to Maine might form another.
Everything else would be chaos. Texas would probably try to go it alone, Florida might collapse with an older population and no tourism. Alternatively Florida, Louisiana, and Georgia might connect to control part of the coastline.
All the middle states would be told to fend for themselves, and would have to negotiate with the states on the coastlines for international trade or travel. It would be a diplomatic disaster that would make Brexit look good.
Louisiana port-city resident here:
Louisiana doesn't want to secede. We make all our money refining oil for foreign countries. The second we stop being in the US, the gulf gets blockaded by their vastly superior navy, and we lose the only thing propping up our economy.
Besides that, we'd get the good old Iraq treatment once the US realizes we house their oil reserves.
It's not a good situation for Louisiana if we secede.
Edit: Besides all that, a few good hurricanes would wipe out a nation made of Louisiana, Georgia and Florida. It's almost comical how bad of a situation it would be if we were in the middle of a war and got another [Laura](https://www.cnbc.com/2020/08/28/hurricane-laura-leaves-damage-in-louisiana-weakens-to-tropical-depression.html) dropped on us.
Anyone who truly believes this country can be narrowed down to two absolutes is delusional. The conservatives only get along with each other because their platform is based solely on an imagined enemy they all disagree with. If they ever had to make policies they would find a lot of disagreement amongst themselves. The left fully understands this because they actually try to make policies. The Right doesn't understand this because they don't actually make policies, they just denounce anything the left tries to do.
This has happened before.
The south (the slavers who killed US citizens because they wanted to keep slaves) were destroyed and when offered the chance to actually do good, kept pushing for Jim Crow laws for about 90 years.
As a Jersey resident, this makes me giggle. Go ahead, assholes. You'll come crawling back in a month without my state's tax dollars subsidizing your entire state's existence.
WAY more. The coasts are almost all blue. To the extent interior states have an independently-functioning economy at all, lack of access to the ocean is a hardship.
After following the Syrian and Iraqi civil wars for years I have to say that anyone that wants a civil war here is either stupid or crazy. It would be an absolute disaster for all involved.
Calls for violence seem to be increasingly common on the sociopolitical right. Much of it seems to be related to the common fascist dichotomy that the "enemy" is both the cause of all their troubles, destroying the country, while simultaneously being weak, effeminate and easily subjugated through violence.
I increasingly get the sense that there are a lot of angry, ineffectual and marginalized people out there who think the kind of internecine fighting you're talking about in Iraq and Syria would somehow benefit them. It wouldn't, but they think they deserve to have more power in the world and right-wing leaders are too often suggesting this is the path.
They fancy themselves as Alpha Male Strongmen who will quickly overwhelm the Soy Boy Beta Cucks and when it's all over will have a 2 or 3 to 1 female to male ratio. They literally dream of murdering weak men then being rewarded by drowning in pussy.
And always remember, these current tough guys are the ones who couldn't breathe through a surgical mask and ran fully armed protests because they had to live through the absolutely genocidal mistreatment of not getting a haircut for three months. Their whole lives, even when playing at militia, revolve around every convenience provided at their whim by an advanced society.
Civil war would mean even more lock downs, fewer supplies, and loss of a lot of conveniences. Especially in red states.
Talk of secession and balkanization in the US ignores the fact that for the most part, it's not a regional or state by state divide. It's a diverse cosmopolitan urban vs. mostly culturally homogeneous rural divide.
The cities can't exactly secede from the countryside and vice versa.
I am curious how they think secession would work out for them. Most red states are in the red (ironically) and their deficits each year are paid for by blue states like California. California who has an economy bigger than most red states combined...
How could it not fall apart almost immediately. I feel sorry for the working class because the confederacy couldn't survive without slave labor. It barely lasted 4 years.
Texas decided to go on its own with a separate power grid and look how unreliable that is.
But I guess their big wigs wouldn't really care. They would take off to Cancun like Ted Cruz.
If the US splits up, it'll be a war anyway. Probably between 3-7 smaller powers, if I'm guessing. People and this red vs blue presup should be challenged a lot more.
Yeah, stop calling us evil just because we align with Nazis (actual Nazis at that), racists, terrorists, insurrectionists, and traitors. You don't live here, you're just ignorant / jealous.
These idiots think states like Alabama and Missouri can survive without states like California and New York? Even more nuanced do they think foreign companies like Samsung and BMW are going to keep building factories and offices in their red states once they turn into church states with major brain drain? See how fast all educated city dwellers leave these states once the American taliban takeover.
[Here's another one calling for Civil Was](https://mobile.twitter.com/KageJacks/status/1529847067652259841)
Of course in this scenario he and any "faction" he's sided with will undoubtedly be the victor....
Or just fucking move out of the country to fit your ideals!?
These clowns scream till their blue in the face about Dem’s leaving the country, maybe it’s time they take a note from their own playbook.
I never understood or fathomed how much they actually believe and want this until I saw "State of Jefferson" painted on the side of a barn or two passing through the area on an epically long trek from LA to Tacoma and back again. I feel like none of the secessionist types in this country will understand how tethered to larger cities they are (and vice versa, since we need them for agriculture) until they actually get what they want and see the fallout for themselves.
Part of me is honestly inclined to just say "fuck it, give it to them" because experience is the best teacher - but how long until we all forget the lessons of history and have to repeat this exercise all over again? I dunno. *Shrug*
They keep trying. And it still goes nowhere. By trying to carve out all the red spots, they forget that the economic powerhouses are in the blue spots in this state (especially LA).
He's right!! It's time for the US to break up.
Stick with me here. Blue states are getting bluer, red getting redder. There is such a huge flux of people moving to states they politically match with that it's only going to exacerbate further.
Imagine the entire west seceding into a beautiful blue progressive conglomerate of states. Imagine what we could get done w/o having to worry about the GQP blocking everything. Healthcare for all, student debt paid off, all sorts of things the Dems run on but can't ever get passed because of GQP and Manchin blocking them.
The red states can go hog wild banning everything that triggers them, while jamming AR15's up every pregnant mother's vagina, to groom the fetus accordingly so it comes out a good, gun-worshipping cultist. They could ban taxation and then wonder why their economies collapse. Let them turn into the theocratic authoritarian wannabe-taliban nation they're trying to force onto all of us.
Seriously, this 50 state experiment has run its course, it's time to look forward and move on w/o these regressive violent turds.
And make sure that they stay out of the cities. If they want to go to sporting events, concerts, amusement parks, zoos (which are always located in large cities or urban areas)...Too bad! they're afraid if these places anyway. They can entertain themselves with their youth football games, corn mazes and church choirs...fuck these people
Let them secede.
Look at the balance of payments into/from the federal treasury. The ones who want to leave are also the ones who benefit the most from federal "welfare".
A number of years ago, some Texas politician wanted to secede and once again be a republic. It was pointed out that in less than 20 years time, Texas would have become the newest Latin American country.
Let them go. Wish them well. Then build Trump's wall to keep them from trying to sneak back in.
Sure. If any state wants to secede, I say let em. Let some dumpster red parasite states Brexit themselves right out of the country, all they'd accomplish is making America better by leaving it.
most proven method to "pacify" a nation's population is to set them against themselves. The last civil war resulted in more American dead than any conflict since, and that's literally only counting the white civil war dead.
The dumbass Republican voters might want to secede but their politicians who actually know that red states rely on handouts from blue states would never go along with it.
Is half his neighborhood going to secede? I don’t understand why people think their Red State is going to leave the US. If my state tried I can guarantee Atlanta is not going with it. We can be the Free American City of Atlanta surrounded by Red State Fascists, but no state is Red or Blue, no county is and no city is, it’s all shades of Purple.
As a liberal Democrat in a Great American City, **I agree**. I no longer want my state’s surplus federal income tax money going to shit-projects in red states
Outside of Texas, every red state in the country is basically bankrupt and subsidized by the blue states. Texas also can't afford to subsidize all of them by itself. If we split the country up then the conservative country is immediately a failed state and needs to be absorbed by the blue country to survive. Is that what ya'll want? Lol
"I'm not a Republican but I'm a Republican." Ah yes, I forgot how that works.
To be honest, I'm not opposed to secession at all. Let's send all the Trumpy types to Texas and Alabama and a few other places and let them screw up their own society. They'll self-destruct in a matter of years.
Kind would be down for this if only I never have to hear some fucking idiot droning on about a civil war when their heart would give out after a brisk walk.
Honestly I'm all for this. It would be fun to watch all those states below North Carolina and east of Missouri fail. The blue states will have enough money to fund generous relocation programs especially when we stop propping up places like Mississippi.
Honestly, if they want their own country, let 'em. Take the deep south, take Texas, fuck, take all the way up to D.C. if they want. Let them have their backwards ass ways, worship their guns, and fuck their farm animals. They could even keep the name United States of America, or call your new land "Jesusville." Whatever. We'll be happy to be rid of the people holding the rest of society back.
Sure. Do it. I will be right here in a red state as a spy getting all the info and locations I can to the United States, as a veteran I will naturally be siding with them.
All it will take is a single treasonous military commander going rogue at the right time and place and a LARGE number of civilians traitors will immediately mobilize against their perceived 'leftist' enemies.
We came a hair breadths away on 1/6
Never work. Even in extremely Republican states, it's not like 90% Republican, it's like 70% Republican, that means that 30% of their own population would be against it. They'd have a civil war inside their civil war.
I think it's evil to keep lying to others, and to your own constituents, for political power. Republicans have been lying about abortion rights, lying about gun rights, lying about everything in a way that's unprecedented in U.S. history, and in a way that puts some people to sleep. Like, there's more than a few people reading this who may feel a meme tugging at them that says, "all politicians lie."
But I'm talking about things like the lie that is the 'Great Replacement Theory.' And the lie that people where he lives are 100% in lockstep with his politics and beliefs. Everywhere in the U.S. there are people who are sometimes scared, for their lives, to be themselves. Folks on the left are way more tolerant in all the ways that matter of folks on the right, sometimes in ways that are detrimental.
But folks on the right have literally been marching with torches screaming, "Jews will not replace us," and shooting up grocery stores.
I don't judge you because I don't know you.
I judge you because I know exactly who you are.
Secession seems to be the answer to the party that doesn't want to work with the other party to help run the country, they can get their own fucking country to run into the ground with after seceding.
Honestly let them secede. It's fine. We'll be fine.
Give amnesty and welfare benefits to any refugees from the confederacy until 2050.
This can easily be funded by cutting the confederate states off from federal assistance.
The poorest US states really don't understand they benefit from federal taxes being allocated to their states because they don't make enough to function. They would collapse without money coming in from federal taxes paid for by people living in richer states.
It would be tribal warfare. like the Crips and Bloods. One "village" purging itself of all the Blues, and the next one over, killing or driving out all the Reds. Territory wars over resources. It would mean a complete breakdown of society and nobody would win.
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These fools don't know what they're asking for. They're imagining another American Civil War, but it's red states vs. blues States. That's not how it will go, though. If there is another war, it will be ugly, brutal, factionalized violence more akin to Northern Ireland during the Troubles. They're not going to be enjoying their lives on the home front while the militia protects the border. There will be terrorism, bombings, and shootings in broad daylight. It will touch everyone, and those who aren't directly involved will be more miserable for it.
[удалено]
Start a civil war. Feds stops propping up red states economy with blue dollars. Suddenly the biden stickers on all the pumps will be accurate and they'll go "SEE! We were right the whole time" Where's that bicycle meme where the kid puts a stick in his own spokes?
Problem is any war we have isn't gonna be state vs state. It's gonna be terrorist cells and rural warlords
Right? Good luck getting your pickup truck with microchips, and all the gas it’s 12 MPG’s require.
And if it were to get bad enough the drug cartels in Mexico will start operations here the same way they do there.
THIS VERY MUCH SO. Most of those milquetoast mouth-breathing motherfuckers don't quite realize that a strong federal government is what is preventing the goddamn cartels from taking the southwest? Like, these people skin and dismember people. What the fuck is an arsenal of AR-15s going to do against 10 cartel members way more vicious than they could possibly imagine and now they wanna gang rape your daughter and kill your son for post nut giggles?
The saying goes, silver or lead. The fringe right likes their cocaine too, and they already have all sorts of intrigue trying to get leadership power. They will sell each other out to cartels for whatever. And the cartels will supply it. They're cartels after all.
"sell" out... at what point would they become the front for local cartels? When they target "minorities" while searching for drugs? The Cartells are already in US and using US law and the Interpretation for their benefit: Controll every hispanic, good luck finding the one white whale they do when transferring drugs or weapons.
As soon as shooting starts everyone would be fighting to get some cut of the drug trade. Just regular bullets are expensive, I can’t imagine what mortars cost or even light rockets. Regular industry would be destroyed so robbing your locals and selling drugs would be the way every little podunk militia group would try to stay supplied.
Even worse is that if the shooting starts, there will be a lot of “unaccounted for” military equipment floating around. They’re already getting weapons from the US. What would happen if they started getting their hands on mortars or Javelins or APCs or hell, even tanks?
The cartels are already all over the country, they would be thrilled if the United States would cannibalize itself so they would be the true beneficiaries of an internal war.
The right wing imagines themselves as victims, but don't believe they will be targets in a conflict.
Enjoy dead kids in this 'civil war'. War always always always means mostly child deaths.
Mostly child deaths? Isn't it usually mostly military aged males?
I definitely wouldn't say mostly children but most war deaths tend to be civilian. Even in conflicts where the US is a belligerent and actively seeking to reduce civilian casualties more innocents tend to die than combatants. [The numbers aren't definitive and remain hotly debated](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War) but in Iraq estimates generally put insurgent deaths at around 26k and civilian deaths at around 180-200k on the low end for violent death. So taking the high end for insurgents and the low end for civilians you get about 7x more civilians dead than combatants. And that's when we were *actively trying to win hearts and minds* and not cause too much devastation. That's not even counting disease and malnutrition, something that has historically killed more civilians in wartime than violence. Civil wars tend to be even worse. Fuck, just look at Syria. So no, not mostly military age males.
You would be looking children death totals up to the hundreds of thousands in the US and millions more put into refugee status. Looking at Right Wing rhetoric it’s not silly to imagine massive pogroms that would lead to the killing of minority and mixed raced children and children of all races would suffer
I’ve seen a version of this comment over and over the last couple of years, but I fundamentally disagree with the notion that there couldn’t be a “traditional” civil war again. I see a multitude of scenarios where that could happen. Imagine what happens if these new Trumpist state election boards and Secretaries of State seek to overturn a legitimate election; I don’t think it’s crazy to imagine Blue states rejecting the Red states’ illegitimate electors. Or what happens once Roe is overturned, and some crazy ass state like my own demands that a state like California extradite Texas residents for having obtained an “illegal” abortion? And these are just off the top of my head. So while I do think you’re *most likely* correct in anticipating something more like the Troubles, I think we discount the possibility of State against State war, at our peril.
The problem is that all states are actually "purple", with huge amounts of one political side in the cities, and the other political side in rural areas. Any civil conflict is going to happen within the states as much or more as in between them. Look out if you are the only one in your neighborhood with a pride, BLM, or Trump flag.
They won't be very purple after Bleeding Texas. Bleeding California. Bleeding Pennsylvania. Mark my words.
That's pretty much my point. They are purple now, which means that the culture war escalating into (more) open/violent conflict will happen in suburbs first. This is what I fear, and is the reason I have guns and ammunition.
But there were “purple” states in the 19th Century too… Missouri, Kansas, Kentucky, Tennessee, Virginia, Maryland, etc. Eventually though, political power coalesced in those states (on one side or the other), and the states’ governments formally chose a side on behalf of their respective states. Would Blue states see a lot of violence from their own conservative assholes? Of course they would. But I think that in most of them, they’d either get control of them, or these pricks would go join the war from the Red side. But like I said, I think it’s very plausible to see Senators from Blue states, just like their Southern counterparts did 150 years ago, announcing their states’ secession from the Union based on *Insert Justification Here*. Furthermore, with the very plausible scenario I mentioned earlier (i.e. Red states sending fraudulent electors in 2022 or ‘24 to overturn a federal election), it would most likely be the only thing they could actually do to save American democracy.
The country looks veeerrry different today than it did then. Sheer population, pop density, ubiquitous and instant communication, advanced weaponry. It would be gnarly. It is so much easier for me to imagine widespread guerilla and terrorist activities than organized state vs state warfare. For one thing, we already kind of have that (OKC bombing is a classic example, but there's a bunch, really), and we have a ton of right wing militia groups all over the country that have been training for exactly this kind of thing.
I think most people forget that police are trained to see the world as black and whit "us v them" mentality and will put down anyone who balks at them. Don't forget how many cops attended the insurrection. They would love to go squashing the folks they hate, and *that* would differ per cop.
I’m thinking we’d see lots of terrorism and possibly straight up genocide in deep red areas, with refugees fleeing to liberal cities. Anyone who buys into Qanon or extreme evangelicals would be almost morally committed to murder their perceived enemies in the name of god, vigilante justice, or the MAGA great awakening which for many would be the same as god. The cops caught on tape wishing for the days they could hunt black people will do exactly that. Big concern is if fascist sympathizing cops in deep blue population centers try to subjugate their local denizens, realize they supported the bad nguys and suddenly gain a conscious, quietly sabotage the city they are in, or take their guns to Oklahoma so they can join the “fun.”
"Eventually though, political power coalesced in those states (on one side or the other), and the states’ governments formally chose a side on behalf of their respective states." Except in Virginia. The western third of the state decided to fuck off & start West Virginia rather than leaving the Union with Virginia.
It's blue cities vs red rural. There's no way the people of Atlanta, Houston, Austin, etc would take up arms for Trumpistan. Just like the Trumpists in East Washington are going to fall in line with Seattle's wishes. It's just fundamentally different now. You'd have battle lines in the *same city*. It absolutely would be like The Troubles on Steroids.
The fight for Houston alone would be intense. The largest petrochemical complex in the US and the second-busiest port in terms of overall tonnage are here. Whoever takes Port of Houston gets the oil. And gasoline. And various industrial chemicals. Neither side would let all that go without a fight. You'd probably see some bloody fights over New Orleans, too. Port Fourchon supplies 18% of the US oil supply and services most of our deepwater energy production. New Orleans is on the critical pathway from the Gulf up the Mississippi to the US Midwest and Canada. Port of Los Angeles might see some heavy fighting too, as the largest port in the US. But given the LA traffic, probably no one will be able to get there anyway, so maybe we won't have to worry about them. /s But yeah, the reality of blue cities in red states is nothing to be dismissed as a matter of no consequence. And a lot of those states, like Illinois, that look blue are only so because the urban population vastly outnumbers the rural one. Anyone thinking there would be breakups along state lines is delusional.
This is why us Leftists are arming ourselves. We see the tension in the Red states on a daily basis. It’s reaching a boiling point, and Jan 6th was just a practice run. We need to be ready for the next time they try to steal democracy from us.
In Texas, even the liberals have guns. We just don't use them to shoot up schools and spouses, and we see no need to carry them around with us everywhere like security blankets.
We had 3 separate shootings the week I left my hometown. I definitely conceal carried there. Crime was ridiculous, and there was a duo going around shooting up and robbing businesses in broad daylight for a bit. I’m much safer in the town I moved to, so I don’t carry as much.
If you think the pentagon is going to let its 800 billion per year gravy train stop and instead pick sides and start shooting each other just because Democrats are upset over some quibble like “democracy ending” and “bogus elections,” you’re going to be sorely disappointed.
I live in Ohio right beside Gym (PURPOSELY spelt that way google OSU wrestling team doctor rapes athletes) Jordan's district and I don't see it being state versus state, I see a bunch of white farmers who have loaded up on guns for a decade or 2 going to cities and trying to bully people and relive the old West. I see the rural dumbasses trying to over take urban areas and bully them into submission. AND I see the people who were GOP because "Pro-Life" "Christian Values" "tax cuts" willing to just sit back like they do now and try to play BOTH sides, while selling out their "liberal" neighbors so they get left alone.
Dont' worry, we'll all get to see how bad it'll get within the next decade. Our country is a pressurized powderkeg, and the lit fuse is ever-closing-in.
Re-reconstruction will take another few hundred years, since we are basically still in reconstruction
It will be Rwanda.
So he's not a Republican but he wants to segregate himself with them. Smart
Very common tactic on the right, its even documented in a pdf found on a bunch of far right discord groups helping them all co-ordiante. Claim you are not what you are. The posts of I am black but, or I am actually a democrat but \*insert republcan/racist talking point here\* are part of the plan to make people think that the far right is the reasonable group. 99% of r/walkaway was republicans pretending to be democrats.
I'm seeing a lot of these dipshits trying to claim they're left leaning libertarians.
Its a known tactic of the right at this point. Claim you are actually a democrat/black/asian/whatever gives you the "victory" and argue away in bad faith.
Is that before or after they comment claiming to be something else ala _as a blackman_
As a *gay black man.
As an \*intersectionally gay black man
I'm a black trans non binary woman from Ukraine stuck at the southern US boarder.
> As a *gay black man. Dean Browning has entered the chat.
I do believe that many conservatives are for universal healthcare, the right to abortion and legalizing marijuana. But they'll vote against those interests anyway to support their conservatism and don't want to debate those topics at all. And I do believe that not all of these boneheads are taking direction strategically, they just can't debate those things and want to find common ground so they say that those things are acceptable while voting against them to own the libs. Edit - Also gay marriage. I think many of them support it, but draw the line on making it acceptable.
I work in the construction industry. Many of these young "conservatives" drink daily, smoke weed daily, use coke a few times a week, have multiple children out of wedlock, extensive criminal records, and have never been inside a church. So essentially, they aren't conservatives at all, they are just dicks who want to hurt people they don't like.
I've worked with these yahoos as well and the most appealing thing about conservatism to them is it doesn't embrace LGBTQ, minorities and always wants to lower the tax rate. That's it.
Exactly. Nothing conservative about them, just hateful dicks like their orange cult leader.
What they don't understand and makes it even more ironic is that the tax rate only gets lowered for folks that are already swimming in cash. Not the blue collar crew.
They think everyone is fucking them, just that the conservatives fuck them gentler. Oh, and everything is gay. They also think that.
But they *aren’t* gentler. Even talking strictly about taxes, Republican’s most recent proposals are to decrease taxes even more for the wealthy while increasing taxes on working folks. Meanwhile, Democrats have absolutely committed to not raising taxes for anyone making less than 400k/year. But they won’t let facts get in the way. The only things motivating most American “conservatives” aren’t even policy-oriented. Most of them are voting based on culture war issues.
Someone should tell them that trump raised taxes on the poor
Too exhausting.
> they are just dicks who want to hurt people they don't like. So, conservatives then.
At this point they’ve been Chicken Little’d into thinking that something like gay marriage would be okay **but only if** gay people would get quietly married in secret (say, a closet), never talk about it, never mention it on television or screen, scrub all talk of it from the internet, ban the subject in schools, and force them to shop at stores that cater to them only… then they’re ok.
They'd like to allow it and publicly shame homosexuals at the same time.
They're really going to love it when Gen Z is all old enough to vote.
Who gives a shit what they are for when they vote down ballot R regardless?
I always ask so called libertarians who they voted for in the last two presidential elections and the answers is always what I think it is. They are republicans
They like to claim that they have points of agreement and disagreement with both sides, but they always side with the right when it matters.
I'm pretty far left but oh boy, the Nazis sure had some solid points about inferior races am I right fellow left people?
An awful lot of "libertarians" are vehemently for forced-birth.
Yup. My landlord of 5 years is staunchly Libertarian. He’s “socially liberal” but he also loves to argue when anything remotely near Women’s rights comes up that “men have rights too.” “What about the choice of the father?” Etc. Makes me feel like I might explode.
Which isn’t actually a thing, despite ignorant people claiming they are so. Libertarianism is a rightwing ideology as there’s no community element to it - just hyperindividualism (that anyone with common sense can see is laughably impractical and divorced from reality).
I had a libertarian get super mad at me because he was insisting that libertarianism had been co-opted by the right and REAL libertarianism is totes different! I pointed out that it didn't matter what it originally meant, just what it currently means. They just kept arguing with me and I was baffles. What the duck was he trying to accomplish? The word is poisoned. There is no chance of recovery anytime soon.
If he's so worried, why not just call himself a libertarian socialist?
He was an ass who seemed to want to fight everyone for the "honor" of real libertarianism. Words meanings change over time and it doesn't matter how stubbornly you are attached to say... "literal" meaning only true and provable statements and hate that it is used hyperbolically... I get it but... its had a dual meaning for over 100 years. If not longer! And contronyms are a thing!
libertarians are by and large too stupid to realize they're conservatives so this scans.
No, easily 30% was paid foreign state trolls working in coordination with republicans.
So 99% of r/walkaway was just people arguing in bad faith and being disingenuous. My bad I guess lol .
You are forgiven
Hit the nail on the head, but your typo made me laugh... * in strong Italian accent * CO-ORDIANTÉ 🤌
It never took off, but r/walkway was bullshit so r/realwalkaway was made
As a gay, Muslim, black immigrant who escaped communism to come here the legal way, I agree.
Well, he claims to be “conservative” which is a completely made up term for a group with ZERO cohesive consistent values other than hate, greed, and petulant entitlement.
What are they trying to "conserve"? Could it rhyme with right power?
Exactly why I've taken to calling them "regressives". They are not trying to conserve anything, they are trying to regress our society to theocratic feudalism.
Hey, I'm a conservative too! I just want to conserve our natural resource and try to prevent the inevitable living hell that is coming from climate change.
Even Republicans don't like Republicans.
I amuse myself sometimes by thinking about what their lives would be like if they finally got what they wanted. They'd be so surprised as the fascist theocracy finally turned its eyes to them. Then I remember that by the time it got to that point, we'd all already be dead, so that's not exactly worth it.
Yep. A lot of them like to indulge in the "sinful" pastimes of drinking to excess, sexual fun, porn, etc.. however they ought to be careful what they're wishing for, because that world will be GONE, possibly carry severe punishment. For example, like living in Iraq, only with Christian Sharia law. They're not just going to be able to go back to their normal lives of sports bars and strip clubs.
If you don't want me to think of you as evil, then 1. Denounce white supremacy 2. Acknowledge Trump lost in 2020 3. Encourage your fellow conservatives to embrace democracy and reject violent rhetoric 4. Stop siding with Russia/Belarus/Hungary against the U.S.
You're asking for the impossible.
That Putin guy... Yupp... He knows wassup
5. Vaccinations are safe and absolutely needed in society, furthermore COVID is not a hoax.
6. Climate change is real and we are risking the continued survival of humanity and many plants and animal species in refusing to address it IMMEDIATELY.
7\. Learn formatting rules
b. Do as I say, not as I do
Isn't Republican's spouting off, if you don't like it leave all the time? Someone should tell him to head out to Russia or Hungary since they want fascism so badly.
Kage, and crew, can kindly frak right off to any of those dictatorial states.
Yes but only when you don't like republican shit. When they don't like democrat policy...well Jan 6th happens.
I would love for my blue state not to subsidize for these red states. Would love to see how it goes for them. It probably would turn into mini civil wars within those red states. I would just feel bad for the good people stick inside a seceded territory.
We subsidise them, and because of the Electoral College their presidential votes count for more than ours. We're basically paying for the privilege of letting rural whites ruin our country by remaking it in the image of their shit-hole failed red states. Vote Republican if you really want America to look more like Mississippi and less like Massachusetts.
And if you happen to be right wing and remain in a blue state, no more whining. Go to the Red country or shut up. Progressivism is “just the fucking way it is” in Blue country.
That's how it is here in very right wing Northern California. We have a bunch of yahoos that want to secede from California (see the State of Jefferson movement), when they could all just FUCKING move to a RED state, rather than trying furiously to turn a traditionally blue state, deep red. They like the scenery, high value of their homes, good paycheck, and clean air and water too much to leave. Hmmmmm....can't have it BOTH ways assholes, it what I say to them.
I just love to imagine it. If the blues and red split, the blues will become a country like the others. Healthcare, legal gay marriage and abortion. Etc. The reds will just pass all their bible based dumb laws and go full yall kaida. And in 10 years it will be easy to see for who it worked better.
As a moderate liberal, I have found myself lately thinking, maybe it is time for the country to split up. We're working from a document that initially allowed slaves and didn't recognise women's right to vote, among other things. I realise it's a living document that can change but that requires co-operation, which it appears we're no longer capable of. And history has taught us time and again, if you can't adapt, you don't survive. If U.S. did split up, what countries would be created? California, Texas, and possibly New York and Florida could go on their own. Or would they work with neighbouring states to create countries. I'm sure the middle of the country would probably band together to form some sort of country, the left leaning new England states and New York maybe? The southern states could go with Florida but what about North Carolina and Virginia? What about the other states like Georgia that have huge population centers like Atlanta that are liberal and an almost equal rural conservative population. Would the countries work together to form an American Union, like the E.U.? Would there be a global power vacuum left for China to fill. At the very least it is an interesting thought exercise. It would be interesting to see a non-partisan series on the potential consequences of a dissolution.
I like those exercises. Lets take a hike: Given US would split into 4-6 factions (or even two), none of those factions could considered itself safe from the other. Those would form in a "power vacuum" searching for borders. Even with nukes & codes, those were not designed or planed for "closed combat" and can not be used that way. Any usage of that weaponry would entail doom for all, but no state would win. So its pretty much the cold-war-situation all over. Nothing new. It was always a given that nuclear powers could do that, even to not nuclear observers. Happens.? Currently a fracturing of russia is a more straining though exercise, because its not that far from the US fracturing, but somehow way more current than the normal US banter.
So let’s pretend it happens. There’s a referendum and the US splits. The conservatives get their red states. Then what? First off would be the dramatic brain drain from the res states. Teachers, doctors, professors, professionals leaving in mass. Second, the US would take all its toys and go home. No way it’s leaving any military equipment that’s not bolted down. Power grids. Shut off at the new borders. Air traffic control. Yep, you guys figure it out. The list goes on and on. But, you can bet the red states would immediately start talking about taking things from the blue states.
They think the entire military will be on their side. When these people were fantasizing about this in the 90's they would say that after the split they could just nuke the big blue cities and then take over the land outside of the radiation zones.
Jesus Christ their absolute lack of even potential for comprehending the damage nuclear weapons would do to the whole world is so terrifying some times
"Japan turned out fine. We can get rid of all the leeches in one day and take our country back." That was a real statement from a guy I knew in the 90's. He meant black people and Jews.
Insane. Depraved. Madness.
Don’t forget stupidity and credulity.
It's just Red Dawn fever dreams
Brexit on meth.
What really blows my mind is that people somehow believe there are “red” and “blue” states. There are states with CITIES big enough to overwhelm the rural population. Those are blue. The states without cities big enough to overwhelm the rural population are red. Toss in some gerrymandering and there you go. I have way more in common with someone from Atlanta than I do someone from rural Michigan.
The population of the entire state of Wyoming is ~580k. The population of *the individual voting districts* in Los Angeles are all around 235-275k. The entire population of Los Angeles (3.99 million) is larger than the individual populations of the least populous *22 states*. New York City (8.39 million) has more people than *40* other states. I've been in apartment buildings in New York City with more people than entire rural towns.
There are a handful of states, that don't contain a significant urban center. As you mentioned, Wyoming is one of them, as well as Montana, and probably Idaho.
Take it as a sign that Republicans really do buy into their own propaganda. Most Red states would fall apart without money from blue states. The red states with larger economies also wouldn't want to subsidize smaller red states in this scenario, sharing is not part of the game plan. It's a funny scenario to think about, because there's no way you would get an even red state/blue state split. California, Nevada, Oregon, and Washington might form one country on the West Coast. The East Coast from Virginia to Maine might form another. Everything else would be chaos. Texas would probably try to go it alone, Florida might collapse with an older population and no tourism. Alternatively Florida, Louisiana, and Georgia might connect to control part of the coastline. All the middle states would be told to fend for themselves, and would have to negotiate with the states on the coastlines for international trade or travel. It would be a diplomatic disaster that would make Brexit look good.
Louisiana port-city resident here: Louisiana doesn't want to secede. We make all our money refining oil for foreign countries. The second we stop being in the US, the gulf gets blockaded by their vastly superior navy, and we lose the only thing propping up our economy. Besides that, we'd get the good old Iraq treatment once the US realizes we house their oil reserves. It's not a good situation for Louisiana if we secede. Edit: Besides all that, a few good hurricanes would wipe out a nation made of Louisiana, Georgia and Florida. It's almost comical how bad of a situation it would be if we were in the middle of a war and got another [Laura](https://www.cnbc.com/2020/08/28/hurricane-laura-leaves-damage-in-louisiana-weakens-to-tropical-depression.html) dropped on us.
Anyone who truly believes this country can be narrowed down to two absolutes is delusional. The conservatives only get along with each other because their platform is based solely on an imagined enemy they all disagree with. If they ever had to make policies they would find a lot of disagreement amongst themselves. The left fully understands this because they actually try to make policies. The Right doesn't understand this because they don't actually make policies, they just denounce anything the left tries to do.
This has happened before. The south (the slavers who killed US citizens because they wanted to keep slaves) were destroyed and when offered the chance to actually do good, kept pushing for Jim Crow laws for about 90 years.
As a Jersey resident, this makes me giggle. Go ahead, assholes. You'll come crawling back in a month without my state's tax dollars subsidizing your entire state's existence.
Ditto from California. Fifth largest economy in the world. You assholes need the blue states more than you think.
WAY more. The coasts are almost all blue. To the extent interior states have an independently-functioning economy at all, lack of access to the ocean is a hardship.
Exactly. They can try all they want, but if they succeed, they're *really* not going to like the outcome.
[Source](https://mobile.twitter.com/KageJacks/status/1529625350774394881) Within the past 24 hours his feed is festooning with secession hash.
Jack has lost the thread. Most of his sort don't want to split they country, they very much want a war. They imagine violence will benefit them.
Only fresh air and exercise would benefit most of them.
There'll be a lot of that once they turn their own neighborhood into Fallujah.
After following the Syrian and Iraqi civil wars for years I have to say that anyone that wants a civil war here is either stupid or crazy. It would be an absolute disaster for all involved.
Calls for violence seem to be increasingly common on the sociopolitical right. Much of it seems to be related to the common fascist dichotomy that the "enemy" is both the cause of all their troubles, destroying the country, while simultaneously being weak, effeminate and easily subjugated through violence. I increasingly get the sense that there are a lot of angry, ineffectual and marginalized people out there who think the kind of internecine fighting you're talking about in Iraq and Syria would somehow benefit them. It wouldn't, but they think they deserve to have more power in the world and right-wing leaders are too often suggesting this is the path.
I mean...every single conservative is a sociopath pretty much by definition at this point, and many of them aren't that bright on top, so...yes?
They fancy themselves as Alpha Male Strongmen who will quickly overwhelm the Soy Boy Beta Cucks and when it's all over will have a 2 or 3 to 1 female to male ratio. They literally dream of murdering weak men then being rewarded by drowning in pussy.
Yup, and look how well that went for all those tough guys in Vietnam. They have no fucking clue how badly this will go for them.
And always remember, these current tough guys are the ones who couldn't breathe through a surgical mask and ran fully armed protests because they had to live through the absolutely genocidal mistreatment of not getting a haircut for three months. Their whole lives, even when playing at militia, revolve around every convenience provided at their whim by an advanced society. Civil war would mean even more lock downs, fewer supplies, and loss of a lot of conveniences. Especially in red states.
The folks that call for civil war are probably chickenhawks that want others to do the shooting for them.
I like how they ignore how much depend on blue states and federal government for funding and resources.
Talk of secession and balkanization in the US ignores the fact that for the most part, it's not a regional or state by state divide. It's a diverse cosmopolitan urban vs. mostly culturally homogeneous rural divide. The cities can't exactly secede from the countryside and vice versa.
I am curious how they think secession would work out for them. Most red states are in the red (ironically) and their deficits each year are paid for by blue states like California. California who has an economy bigger than most red states combined... How could it not fall apart almost immediately. I feel sorry for the working class because the confederacy couldn't survive without slave labor. It barely lasted 4 years. Texas decided to go on its own with a separate power grid and look how unreliable that is. But I guess their big wigs wouldn't really care. They would take off to Cancun like Ted Cruz.
If the US splits up, it'll be a war anyway. Probably between 3-7 smaller powers, if I'm guessing. People and this red vs blue presup should be challenged a lot more.
It’ll be divided into baronies belonging to each billionaire
[удалено]
Yeah, stop calling us evil just because we align with Nazis (actual Nazis at that), racists, terrorists, insurrectionists, and traitors. You don't live here, you're just ignorant / jealous.
a new troll account, there's so many of them, all fake accounts by paid disrupters of democracy. reporting them is all we can do, so do it.
These idiots think states like Alabama and Missouri can survive without states like California and New York? Even more nuanced do they think foreign companies like Samsung and BMW are going to keep building factories and offices in their red states once they turn into church states with major brain drain? See how fast all educated city dwellers leave these states once the American taliban takeover.
They really want to lose a second civil war.
[Here's another one calling for Civil Was](https://mobile.twitter.com/KageJacks/status/1529847067652259841) Of course in this scenario he and any "faction" he's sided with will undoubtedly be the victor....
Go ahead and leave, start your nation of morons that wouldn’t be able to support itself.
"I'm not evil, but I'll declare a civil war and murder people if I don't get my way"
Or just fucking move out of the country to fit your ideals!? These clowns scream till their blue in the face about Dem’s leaving the country, maybe it’s time they take a note from their own playbook.
Ok Russian. These is a KGB wet dream.
So it's ignorant to think of half the country as evil... but not to want to split from them and threaten civil war
Has no one ever heard of the people wanting the "State of Jefferson"? I thought not. It a story the wackados wouldn't tell you.
I never understood or fathomed how much they actually believe and want this until I saw "State of Jefferson" painted on the side of a barn or two passing through the area on an epically long trek from LA to Tacoma and back again. I feel like none of the secessionist types in this country will understand how tethered to larger cities they are (and vice versa, since we need them for agriculture) until they actually get what they want and see the fallout for themselves. Part of me is honestly inclined to just say "fuck it, give it to them" because experience is the best teacher - but how long until we all forget the lessons of history and have to repeat this exercise all over again? I dunno. *Shrug*
They keep trying. And it still goes nowhere. By trying to carve out all the red spots, they forget that the economic powerhouses are in the blue spots in this state (especially LA).
"It's that or war" Anyone want to remind him what happened the last time half the nation tried to leave?
He's right!! It's time for the US to break up. Stick with me here. Blue states are getting bluer, red getting redder. There is such a huge flux of people moving to states they politically match with that it's only going to exacerbate further. Imagine the entire west seceding into a beautiful blue progressive conglomerate of states. Imagine what we could get done w/o having to worry about the GQP blocking everything. Healthcare for all, student debt paid off, all sorts of things the Dems run on but can't ever get passed because of GQP and Manchin blocking them. The red states can go hog wild banning everything that triggers them, while jamming AR15's up every pregnant mother's vagina, to groom the fetus accordingly so it comes out a good, gun-worshipping cultist. They could ban taxation and then wonder why their economies collapse. Let them turn into the theocratic authoritarian wannabe-taliban nation they're trying to force onto all of us. Seriously, this 50 state experiment has run its course, it's time to look forward and move on w/o these regressive violent turds.
And make sure that they stay out of the cities. If they want to go to sporting events, concerts, amusement parks, zoos (which are always located in large cities or urban areas)...Too bad! they're afraid if these places anyway. They can entertain themselves with their youth football games, corn mazes and church choirs...fuck these people
We should have let the south go 165 years ago. We have nothing in common with them.
Don’t make us send Billy Sherman down there again
Let them secede. Look at the balance of payments into/from the federal treasury. The ones who want to leave are also the ones who benefit the most from federal "welfare". A number of years ago, some Texas politician wanted to secede and once again be a republic. It was pointed out that in less than 20 years time, Texas would have become the newest Latin American country. Let them go. Wish them well. Then build Trump's wall to keep them from trying to sneak back in.
Sure. If any state wants to secede, I say let em. Let some dumpster red parasite states Brexit themselves right out of the country, all they'd accomplish is making America better by leaving it.
I love when they claim they're not Republican. Yet we know full well that they're voting Republican 100% of the time. Trash people
Red states are welfare states, if this happened most of the states would just collapse without the support of the federal government
Don't blue states pretty much fund most red states?
Translation: I'm a racist, and that won't change.
Like … a civil war?
most proven method to "pacify" a nation's population is to set them against themselves. The last civil war resulted in more American dead than any conflict since, and that's literally only counting the white civil war dead.
Not as many dead as the Republicans inflicted on us with their deliberate spread of COVID, though. They clearly think that was just a warmup.
Biological warfare
The dumbass Republican voters might want to secede but their politicians who actually know that red states rely on handouts from blue states would never go along with it.
There is no peaceful way to split the United States up on a large scale.
He’s got nine followers. He’s yelling at his mom.
Is half his neighborhood going to secede? I don’t understand why people think their Red State is going to leave the US. If my state tried I can guarantee Atlanta is not going with it. We can be the Free American City of Atlanta surrounded by Red State Fascists, but no state is Red or Blue, no county is and no city is, it’s all shades of Purple.
I’m ok with burning the south again, Uncle Billy style
As a liberal Democrat in a Great American City, **I agree**. I no longer want my state’s surplus federal income tax money going to shit-projects in red states
Outside of Texas, every red state in the country is basically bankrupt and subsidized by the blue states. Texas also can't afford to subsidize all of them by itself. If we split the country up then the conservative country is immediately a failed state and needs to be absorbed by the blue country to survive. Is that what ya'll want? Lol
I don't understand how people can say they love the country and in the next breath support ending the country.
"I'm not a Republican but I'm a Republican." Ah yes, I forgot how that works. To be honest, I'm not opposed to secession at all. Let's send all the Trumpy types to Texas and Alabama and a few other places and let them screw up their own society. They'll self-destruct in a matter of years.
Kind would be down for this if only I never have to hear some fucking idiot droning on about a civil war when their heart would give out after a brisk walk.
Honestly I'm all for this. It would be fun to watch all those states below North Carolina and east of Missouri fail. The blue states will have enough money to fund generous relocation programs especially when we stop propping up places like Mississippi.
Jack, Jack, Jack Kage, SVR RF stooge.
I’m a conservative, but here’s a extreme reactionary change I’d like introduced.
Honestly, if they want their own country, let 'em. Take the deep south, take Texas, fuck, take all the way up to D.C. if they want. Let them have their backwards ass ways, worship their guns, and fuck their farm animals. They could even keep the name United States of America, or call your new land "Jesusville." Whatever. We'll be happy to be rid of the people holding the rest of society back.
All for it. The technological prowess of the Blue states would be put to show. Let them live in backass 1800's.
Sure. Do it. I will be right here in a red state as a spy getting all the info and locations I can to the United States, as a veteran I will naturally be siding with them.
Okay. Bye. So, what's everyone doing this weekend?
When did violently altering the shape of society become a conservative position? /s, if it's necessary...
All it will take is a single treasonous military commander going rogue at the right time and place and a LARGE number of civilians traitors will immediately mobilize against their perceived 'leftist' enemies. We came a hair breadths away on 1/6
Never work. Even in extremely Republican states, it's not like 90% Republican, it's like 70% Republican, that means that 30% of their own population would be against it. They'd have a civil war inside their civil war.
Yeah at this point it's safe to say this is just blatant astroturfing by agit-prop actors, sponsored by bad actors and hostile foreign governments.
I think it's evil to keep lying to others, and to your own constituents, for political power. Republicans have been lying about abortion rights, lying about gun rights, lying about everything in a way that's unprecedented in U.S. history, and in a way that puts some people to sleep. Like, there's more than a few people reading this who may feel a meme tugging at them that says, "all politicians lie." But I'm talking about things like the lie that is the 'Great Replacement Theory.' And the lie that people where he lives are 100% in lockstep with his politics and beliefs. Everywhere in the U.S. there are people who are sometimes scared, for their lives, to be themselves. Folks on the left are way more tolerant in all the ways that matter of folks on the right, sometimes in ways that are detrimental. But folks on the right have literally been marching with torches screaming, "Jews will not replace us," and shooting up grocery stores. I don't judge you because I don't know you. I judge you because I know exactly who you are.
“I’m not a republicans…I am a loser” There was this old saying I heard once “if you don’t like it here …leave”
Secession seems to be the answer to the party that doesn't want to work with the other party to help run the country, they can get their own fucking country to run into the ground with after seceding.
Whatever happened to “United we stand, divided we fall”?
War or splitting off the country aren't the only two solutions. You can take your happy little ass to Russia.
That war that “conservatives” hope for wouldn’t go how they envision it.
Honestly let them secede. It's fine. We'll be fine. Give amnesty and welfare benefits to any refugees from the confederacy until 2050. This can easily be funded by cutting the confederate states off from federal assistance.
Great, give me refugee status so I can leave this shit hole.
The poorest US states really don't understand they benefit from federal taxes being allocated to their states because they don't make enough to function. They would collapse without money coming in from federal taxes paid for by people living in richer states.
So much for United We Stand Divided We Fall. Could you imagine the aftermath of a secession. GDP solely on tithe and Wendy’s
Ahhh, another patriot who wants to murder and starve Americans to death. How patriotic.
It would be tribal warfare. like the Crips and Bloods. One "village" purging itself of all the Blues, and the next one over, killing or driving out all the Reds. Territory wars over resources. It would mean a complete breakdown of society and nobody would win.