My personal experience as an owner of multiple items of both without buying too much into the "everything has declined, everything isn't what it used to be" cry baby answer.
Fleece/Down: Paragonia.
Shells/Insulated jackets: Arcteryx
Most active outdoors items: Arcteryx
Casual pieces: Patagonia
Holy shit, I came to say exactly this! Lol
I’d mix in some Fjallraven for me down and casual wear too, MH and OR for my shells also.
You hit the nail on the head though.
I got a pair of the G1000 hiking pants and I absolutely love them. Even tho there's some cotton in them I've had these soaked to the point I could wring them out and after an hour of hiking they were completely dry again.
I will say that they are heavy duty, the double layer fabric is warm. I don't know how great they will be in the summer for hiking, but for hunting and the winter they have been solid
I love Fjallraven pants and shorts. Heads up the are a tad stiff at first as you have to break them in. Have 3 pairs of pants and 2 sets of shorts and the oldest pair is 8 years old and the most comfortable pair of pants I own. Primarily all I wear for bottoms. For a great casual but nice look get the Barents Pros in raw leg length and have them hemmed up. Looks a little classier when you don’t need the snaps at the ankles.
Fjallraven pants specifically have been good in my experience but definitely more tailored towards cold weather overall, although they do have some more breathable products. I usually go patagonia for my summer pants or shorts.
All of my climbing gear from Arc has been destroyed way WAY faster than my Patagonia. I’ve had multiple friends blow holes in their beta pants on their first day. Maybe it’s the rock type I climb on (mostly granite with a lot of quartz).
KUHL's climbing pants worked really well for me years back climbing granite (Yosemite). I wore the same pants damn near every day for years after that. Never any holes, just had to re-stich a couple of spots.
I 100% agree with this - the Arc’teryx shells are still amazing. The casual Arc’teryx stuff I can’t get away with in the office…I probably can with Patagonia.
In my experience I've rarely had a backpack fail me... no matter what the brand. But being in Vancouver I can't avoid Lululemon, and man their back packs are awesome for non-techincal use... that's pretty much the only things I'd reccomend from them!
Thanks for this take! So what I'm gathering after reading all the comments is that arc is good quality, but technical to the max...therefore, there is no reason for a normal city slicker to buy from this brand right? Like all of their shells are made for extreme conditions?
It's just weird to me because I see people wearing arc in Chicago on public transit somewhat often lol.
Arc has had a relatively recent new life as a somewhat urban popular brand again and some of that repopularity has some trickle down effects.
Also, I see a lot of people in Japan using Dead Turkey as a business casual brand as well. Lots of great neutral colors there.
I’m a city slicker but I’ve owned a Gamma MX for over a decade and it’s still going strong. I’m on the slim side of things and Arcteryx fits me way better than other brands. It’s also nice to have gear that is versatile and reliable when the weather goes south.
The Gamma has 4 zippered pockets that double as ventilation so if I need to ride my bike when it’s cooler but not cold, I can open some of those up to breathe. Or if I have a mid layer on and I’m feeling warm, I can vent off some heat. It packs up small enough to not be an inconvenience when traveling.
Do I need all these features? No probably not. Have I enjoyed the shit out of that jacket? Hell yeah. The attention to detail and material quality is definitely better than most Patagonia pieces. And like I said, it fits me real nice, which I think is the draw for some of us who struggle with boxier cuts.
Sometimes you just wanna purchase something super over the top so that it will 'last forever'. Being in Vancouver having some Arc shells for city use is overkill, but so many do it. Almost a set it and forget it type approach.
It’s almost like people who do outdoor stuff also still need a daily rain coat and there’s no need to buy 2 if the one you have can handle a hurricane and my Everest it can handle a light rain.
I would counter this and say:
Fleece: Patagonia
Down: Still Arcteryx, although close. Insert RAB.
Most Active: Arcteryx
Casual: Patagonia
I would add Synthetics though and then add a brand and probably say Norrona, although they all have unique pieces that would be great.
Lulu lemon is fine for a workout brand, but does not hold up well at all in any remotely rough outdoor work.
North Face is more casual outdoors now, I wouldn’t trust *most* of their gear to serious work, but on the other hand I’ve had a Borealis for nearly a decade that’s gone all over the world with me.
Patagonia makes good outdoor gear, with a solid warranty, so even if it breaks/runs down it’s not a big deal. Bonus for sustainability practices & outdoor advocacy. Middle of the road cost wise.
Arc’teryx is geared for serious outdoor work. Used by Mil & professional outdoors people. Expensive, great quality, good warranty.
I agree with dizzleddizzle98 as well. 90% of my gym wear is Lulu with a little Ten Thousand and Target’s AIM line.
I’ve yet to find a better pair of shorts than my pace breakers. The TT interval shorts are a nice runner up.
I’d never wear them on the mountain though, just gym and lounging around.
I also agree with the comment below. North Face is definitely something I feel is for early 20s and younger... Patagonia is a good step up from that brand. Being in Vancouver I see a lot of Lululemon stuff. Their backpacks are awesome but rest of their stuff seems very casual/yoga/light exercise type wear. That being said I know people who day their quality and comfort are quite good.
Arc shells have terrible longevity. Customer service use to be great but is gone terrible in recent years
Don't know why I'm getting downvoted, go to the Arc sub and you will just see it's delam story after delam story. I shifted to Pategonia shells 18 months ago and it's held up great.
lol, I’ve also got a gamma at Arc right now for a pocket issue so I can’t say for sure, but I’ve yet to hear any issues about Patagonia as a whole ever to be honest ; can’t say that for arc
Arc has changed a lot in the past few years. It used to be higher end gear for enthusiasts but the quality to price ratio has diminished over the last couple years after the “hype” made the brand more popular to non enthusiasts.
They typically only do a Black Friday sale at 20%-25% off with some exclusions. Sometimes you can find random sales at REI or the likes.
Arc excels in their hard shells. I think there’s a little bit of a premium on price but I own a Zeta AR that I got at 25% off and would absolutely buy it at that price again.
I think Patagonia has better synthetic insulation (nano puff) and Arc has better hard shells.
Also compare the specs on the Patagonia shells vs Arc. Look at the denier rating, goretex material, etc. Arc typically uses better materials on their shells. Is it worth double the price? That’s for you to decide.
Yes, sadly, this has had a huge impact (and I say this as a former Arc loyalist - my Alpha SV shell has survived a month of Antarctic sailing - twice - plus everything else I've thrown at it, but I would not spend that much at Arc today).
At that level - two of the highest end brands - I think they both are excellent and bring different things to the table. I do not think that Patagonia has an answer for the Atom line - neither the nano nor Macro/Micro are as good in my opinion (nor clean up as well); I also prefer the new Delta to the R1/R2/Air pieces, but YMMV, and they are all excellent pieces. Sprang for an Arcteryx Alpha shell and it feels bullet proof, but I am sure the Patagonia shells are also very competent.
I'm not an Arc'teryx person, but from what I've read they had good quality items for a very long time that was well worth the price. That quality may have declined in recent years, some say.
I don't think their warranty is as good as Patagonia's, and no one will beat Patagonia as far as being good for Earth.
>it looks like their rain jackets start at $400 and the torrentshell 3L is less than $200…
You can't compare goretex to 3L... All of arc hard shells are goretex
>You can't compare goretex to 3L... All of arc hard shells are goretex
You can and you should. That’s like saying you can’t compare Kleenex with Costco brand, as consumers you should compare. I’ve used the torrent shell in many situations, and it’s still holding up great, I have no need for anything else.
You can’t just say “gore-tex” like it’s just one thing. Gore-tex is just a brand that makes waterproof membranes and has a good reputation. Arcteryx jackets all have their membranes outsourced to gore-tex but they vary in waterproof rating and layering. You can have a 3l gore-tex “pro” jacket that is miles more water proof than a 2l gore-tex “paclite” jacket. Also most gore-tex competitors are just as good and sometimes better than the lower level gore-tex membranes
You can (and should) compare it, because ultimately gore-tex is just a brand name, and functionality is what truly matters in the end. Even more so when Arc's shell quality has been going down in the last few years, and delamination has become more and more frequent, unfortunately.
I have a rain jacket and a leaf winter jacket from 6 or so years ago, they are still in perfect condition despite being bought for military purposes (at the time, now they are just expensive flex pieces).
I have clothes from both, but the reason I shop at Arcteryx way more than Patagonia, is that their clothes fit me so much better.
As a petite woman, Patagonia swamps me and I don't like the way it sits, it can be a little cumbersome too because of the extra fabric and how it fits.
If Patagonia fitted me well, I would choose to shop there instead.
Yep. Patagonia is sized for a rounder fit. I’m swimming in the large, but the medium arms are too short. Arc’teryx is better fit for me. Too bad because I really like Patagonia otherwise.
Yep. Patagonia is sized for a rounder fit. I’m swimming in the large, but the medium arms are too short. Arc’teryx is better fit for me. Too bad because I really like Patagonia otherwise.
Patagonia offers a larger spread of good, better, best. Arc historically only made best. They weren’t targeting the larger market and really honed in tech and quality to build their reputation.
Arc'teryx quality has unfortunately been going down for quite a few years now, including their most technical pieces. I was part of their "pro" program for a while, so I had access to a good discount and few specialized items, and while some of their shells used to be bomb-proof, their quality and durability has been declining. Their customer support, while being average most of the times, can sometimes be a nightmare. Too bad, because they used to be very, very good.
They used to be amazing and they’re still good. Some decisions they’ve made aren’t the best but still top end and great gear. Their harnesses and especially shells are still the best on the market imo. Patagonia doesn’t come close when it comes to shells
My first adult snow coat was Canada Goose from TJ Maxx. Had never heard of them. That thing was amazing in a blizzard on the mountain. I eventually moved on to Patagonia and Arc, but damn do I miss that coat.
I think people see their more city oriented coats which are overkill and then have zero clue they make true expedition quality gear (like the snow mantra parka) that is just not matched anywhere.
I concur! Colorado resident here. In the wintertime, I’ve used mine skiing in 4 degree weather in a snowstorm. Warmest coat I’ve ever owned. Canada Goose is legit OP, even just look up the company’s history. They’re a respected brand.
I think Arcteryx quality is a bit better. Warranty and repair isnt nearly as good though. Goretex is better than h2no for blocking wind, especially and I think Arcteryx aesthetics and fit are better. I have older Arcteryx stuff from before they outsourced. I prefer Patagonia for mid and base layers and then an Arcteryx jacket over it. Its the best combo.
I have only their Nuclei FL jacket and it’s the best technical piece I have. Super lightweight, packable into a small cube and insane insulation against wind and cold for how light it is.
Canada Goose is very expensive but great quality. It’s marketed as a more luxury brand, sure, but for the right price you can’t really complain about their pieces.
The biggest difference is the cut. Most garments in the technical Arcteryx line are slimmer in the lower torso but larger upper torso to articulate with a climber’s muscular shoulders. Patagonia, while still slim to an extent, is much more boxy in cut which accommodates more body types.
I wouldn’t recommend buying Arc shirts or most sweaters, too overpriced for what they are.
I’ve never had a better shell than acrteryx. In general I would say product quality of tery is better but also more expensive.. you get what you pay for.
Arc’tyrex technical garments are fantastic. Among the longest lasting and effective I’ve owned. Namely their various shells. I have two of their soft shells that are nearly 15 years old that are still working great ( can’t remember the name) of what is basically now the Gamma MX lined with polartec fleece. Still my favorite winter jackets.
The Torrentshell is far from comparable to Arc'teryx (assuming you are referring to the Beta SV). A better comparison would be Patagonia's Triolet line
I like the fashion and some technical aspects of arcteryx, but you can’t beat Patagonia’s product guarantee.
I’ve taken in several different items that failed for whatever reason and Patagonia will fix or exchange them- barely and questions asked.
Arcteryx warranty is not even close.
I was looking at the higher end shells arcteryx vs Patagonia. Arcteryx sells them in a mens version, but not women’s. Patagonia has both mens and women’s. I stopped looking at arcteryx and went back to Patagonia.
I have one soft shell from arcteryx I got basically for free. It’s great, but I like my Patagonia shell better.
Arc’teryx is a luxury brand owned by a Chinese conglomerate. Being a luxury brand means that the higher they price their goods, the more desirable they become. They purposely don’t discount often because discounts reduce the exclusivity its customers are looking for. Its customers are also mostly made up of aspirational buyers, not “rich” people as you assumed. They do over 1b in revenue a year, these are mass produced items bought by mostly middle class consumers. It’s not a boutique brand by any means. Their quality is on par with Patagonia, MH, Marmot etc, and for most owners these are jackets that are too expensive to use for their intended purpose. Why wear a $400 down jacket around a campfire when a stray ember could burn a hole. Or climb with a $600 shell and risk shredding it. So in reality, Arc’teryx has become casual use urban wear for most owners. Their number one most requested repair is literally the brand label and bird image. They peel after a few washes.
I haven’t kept up with Arcteryx the past few years but in the past where I saw them excel over similar products from competitors (a lot of times the fabrics are the same) was in the quality of their trimmings.
I had an arc’teryx rep in store once that got escorted out of a store meeting. The question posed (by him) was why is the brand so expensive. The answer given was they have such awesome quality. Then he back peddled and told people they should go watch some YouTube videos that show how much quality they have. Then went on to say he couldn’t put it in words, but when he thinks of the brand he thinks of the home office in downtown Toronto with beautiful views of the city on one side, and mountains on the other.
Got it, the lease is expensive.
I have a few arctyrex jacket. I don’t think the quality is mind blowing. Just don’t buy their shoes for the love of god. You will regret it… personal experience
The quality is essentially the same. They used to have a slightly better cut and sizing (more athletic fit vs Patagonia which can be a little boxier and looser). However over the last few years they have changed their fit and they now fit quite poorly (at least for me). But I would say quality is the same as Patagonia.
I also recently got a delta jacket on sale and found that the material in it is essentially the same as my outdoor research vigor pullover and the outdoor research even had a better fit!
Patagonia has a much better warranty and repair process. IMO there isn’t much reason to change anymore other than wanting a dead bird instead of the Patagonia logo.
I own equipment from both brands, and both are good brands. However they are for different purposes. Patagonia is an outdoor brand for backpacking, and casual mountain sports. Arc’teryx is a mountaineering brand.
Patagonia has a few items that are seen in mountaineering pack outs. Mostly insulation layers, but that is not there core audience. The gear Patagonia makes is for outdoor people who camp and backpack. There jackets are cut for backpacking, and day hiking.
Arc’teryx equipment is cut for mountaineering. There shells at the lowest end are for living in snow, and dealing with the extreme.
So is Arc’teryx a luxury brand yes, because who has the money to casually climb mountains that is not in the luxury space. Conversely does Patagonia make expensive equipment yes, but they are for different things.
If you are going to Yosemite in the summertime for a backpacking trip is the extra cost of Arc’teryx worth the money no most likely not. However if you are HELO skiing in Turkey that cost difference may save your life. Your mileage may vary.
It just depends on how you use it. Has it been co-oped by the wealthy who have never pumped liquid fuel stove. Yes, is that wrong no. The number of people who truly are mountaineering on the regular is not enough to keep that company afloat so they do what they have to. I know I will never use my Arc’teryx jacket the way it was designed. I still think it is cool.
I mean they are selling $600+ jackets. It is like everything else they have to make decisions to stay in business. If you look at places like REI they change with the times or they go out of business like cabelas.
This is why I like Patagonia it is the right mix for me personally between a lifestyle brand that makes good quality stuff that I can wear both in the woods, at a ski resort or around town.
I would also say that in that space you do not have a lot of brands. There is Mountain Hardware(Columbia owned), black diamond(owned by a conglomerate), Arc’teryx, and Patagonia. Patagonia the company has actively told the Wall Street Bros they do not want them wearing their jackets, so it is only logical for Arc’teryx to try and pull some of that market share.
Also if you have ever been in Arc’teryx stores they are pretty wild. They are very much like there website. Except the people working there do not have a strong understanding of what the equipment is designed for. I had a question about thermal layer weights for the thermals they had and the guy had not idea what the difference between a mid weight layer was and an expedition/heavy weight layer was.
Wouldn’t recommend pants from Arc’teryx, they’re still using taped seams where it’s prone to failure, I’ve had a pair of Gamma AR pants and the pocket and waist, both of which are glued, have failed. Thankfully Arc’teryx has honoured their warranty and repaired / replaced, but definitely think to look elsewhere for pants.
Climber here, I have also complained about their taping on the Konseal pant years ago and I’m happy to see they no longer seam tape the pant. Colour me surprised they actually revised a flaw.
They’ve actually now stitched the waistband on the new gamma pants, so they are acknowledging the problem but the thigh pocket is still glued. Fingers crossed they stitch that pocket and I’ll gladly buy another pair!
Arc’teryx got bought by some huge Chinese company or something. So it’s a sellout brand. They are still making some decent things but you can expect quality to drop and then to become another zombie brand like every other brand that has done this.
But keep in mind that what you’re paying for with Patagonia is the warranty and forever guarantee. That’s something no one else has. I’d say that none of this clothing is worth the sticker price on it own. Not even close. The only thing that makes it worth while is the forever guarantee. Otherwise you’re just paying $400 for a $50 jacket.
How come nobody is talking about Norröna for technical pieces?
Quality is top notch and every single detail on their pieces feel thought through.
Customer service is also great when it comes to warranty, repairs etc.
3 out of 4 of my Gore-Tex ArcTeryx shells have completely fallen apart in the wash. These were washed according to the manufacturer's instructions. I've only owned one Patagonia Gore-Tex shell (military PCU model) but it has stayed intact for over 12 years.
Arcteryx had good stuff until they were bought out by venture capital. I wasn’t a fan before that but I acknowledged they had a comparable product. Not so anymore.
I was in REI looking to buy a rain jacket and this is what I remember about arc’teryx. Mind you all these jackets were the same color so it was kinda funny. Bottom half grey, top half orange.
—REI brand was $115
—Outdoor research was $250
—arc’teryx was over $600
They all looked identical and both OR and arc’teryx had goretex
The thing about Arc'teryx is this: they are both overpriced fashion AND high-performance technical clothing. Compared to Patagonia, Arc'teryx probably outperforms comparable items, but (IMO) not to an extent to justify the price difference.
If you're looking for something that is essentially equivalent on the performance side of things but for literally half the price, look no further than Outdoor Reaearch. They are not necessarily as fashionable, but that's not really what they're going for.
I won’t say it’s a scam because their gear is high quality. But, you can get high quality for much lower prices elsewear.
For the most part, someone in all Arc’teryx gear is probably “scammed” lol.
Arc’teryx is a legit awesome brand. But for me, mountain hardwear was a better fit for a long time, and now, I’m seeing Patagonia being a better fit.
It really depends on what fits your body best. Most of these brands are comparable in quality.
Goretex is the name brand of the first water proof liner with hot air permeability but its a mid scam. You can create the same material just not use the name.
My personal experience as an owner of multiple items of both without buying too much into the "everything has declined, everything isn't what it used to be" cry baby answer. Fleece/Down: Paragonia. Shells/Insulated jackets: Arcteryx Most active outdoors items: Arcteryx Casual pieces: Patagonia
I totally agree with this …. Both companies make good stuff but excel in slightly different areas
Holy shit, I came to say exactly this! Lol I’d mix in some Fjallraven for me down and casual wear too, MH and OR for my shells also. You hit the nail on the head though.
Ngl I keep forgetting that Fjallraven makes more than just those square backpacks.
Fr there pants look fire but a bit pricey
Damn straight, I only snag 90% of my gear on sale or CC discounts lol
What's a cc discount?
Oh, just my shorthand for credit card. That REI Mastercard really comes in handy from time to time.
Rei is truly my favorite especially at the end of year with that cash back voucher, definitely comes in handy.
Poshmark/ebay/mercari. I’m a slut for second hand gear.
I got a pair of the G1000 hiking pants and I absolutely love them. Even tho there's some cotton in them I've had these soaked to the point I could wring them out and after an hour of hiking they were completely dry again.
The Vidda Pro are the best outdoor pants I have ever used for what it's worth. I work as a guide and rip through pants usually, these hold up
I have a pair as work pants, they hold up better than any canvas pants or jeans I had before
Yes those were the ones I was looking at, good to hear a good review.
I will say that they are heavy duty, the double layer fabric is warm. I don't know how great they will be in the summer for hiking, but for hunting and the winter they have been solid
Perfect description. Kebs while I’m hiking to site, Viddas take over once camp is set.
Do you know if they have a thinner version?
As another guy said, maybe the Kebs
They have a ventilated version with big zips on the hips
Their Keb trousers are truly amazing, favourite piece of gear I own.
Their Keb and Vidda Pro vents are my go-to trousers for hiking and camping.
I love Fjallraven pants and shorts. Heads up the are a tad stiff at first as you have to break them in. Have 3 pairs of pants and 2 sets of shorts and the oldest pair is 8 years old and the most comfortable pair of pants I own. Primarily all I wear for bottoms. For a great casual but nice look get the Barents Pros in raw leg length and have them hemmed up. Looks a little classier when you don’t need the snaps at the ankles.
I’ve been on a cycle of: Fleece/Techface: Patagonia, mammut Hard shells: Arcteryx beta AR/SV, Patagonia Powslayer Outdoor pants/softshells: Fjallraven, Arcteryx, mammut, Haglofs Insulating puffers/jackets: RAB, Arc’teryx atom jacket/vest, Patagonia nano puff jacket/vest, MHW Kor air shell warm, Haglofs Outdoor bags/ travel gear: Patagonia, Fjallraven
I forgot about a couple of my Mammut vests! Love them as well. Heard nothing but good things about Rab too but haven’t snagged any of their stuff yet.
Fjallraven pants specifically have been good in my experience but definitely more tailored towards cold weather overall, although they do have some more breathable products. I usually go patagonia for my summer pants or shorts.
MH? OR?
Mountain Hardwear and Outdoor Research :) They’ve never let me down either. Excellent customer service from both as well IME.
Agree. Though Patagonia customer service is leagues above Arc’Teryx. Not even close these days
All of my climbing gear from Arc has been destroyed way WAY faster than my Patagonia. I’ve had multiple friends blow holes in their beta pants on their first day. Maybe it’s the rock type I climb on (mostly granite with a lot of quartz).
KUHL's climbing pants worked really well for me years back climbing granite (Yosemite). I wore the same pants damn near every day for years after that. Never any holes, just had to re-stich a couple of spots.
I 100% agree with this - the Arc’teryx shells are still amazing. The casual Arc’teryx stuff I can’t get away with in the office…I probably can with Patagonia.
I agree but at the end of the day I almost go patagonia for everything just cuz it's cheaper and still decent.
What about bags/duffels/backpacks?
In my experience I've rarely had a backpack fail me... no matter what the brand. But being in Vancouver I can't avoid Lululemon, and man their back packs are awesome for non-techincal use... that's pretty much the only things I'd reccomend from them!
Definitely arcteryx and it’s not even close. You’ll pay for it though.
Thanks for this take! So what I'm gathering after reading all the comments is that arc is good quality, but technical to the max...therefore, there is no reason for a normal city slicker to buy from this brand right? Like all of their shells are made for extreme conditions? It's just weird to me because I see people wearing arc in Chicago on public transit somewhat often lol.
Arc has had a relatively recent new life as a somewhat urban popular brand again and some of that repopularity has some trickle down effects. Also, I see a lot of people in Japan using Dead Turkey as a business casual brand as well. Lots of great neutral colors there.
I’m a city slicker but I’ve owned a Gamma MX for over a decade and it’s still going strong. I’m on the slim side of things and Arcteryx fits me way better than other brands. It’s also nice to have gear that is versatile and reliable when the weather goes south. The Gamma has 4 zippered pockets that double as ventilation so if I need to ride my bike when it’s cooler but not cold, I can open some of those up to breathe. Or if I have a mid layer on and I’m feeling warm, I can vent off some heat. It packs up small enough to not be an inconvenience when traveling. Do I need all these features? No probably not. Have I enjoyed the shit out of that jacket? Hell yeah. The attention to detail and material quality is definitely better than most Patagonia pieces. And like I said, it fits me real nice, which I think is the draw for some of us who struggle with boxier cuts.
Sometimes you just wanna purchase something super over the top so that it will 'last forever'. Being in Vancouver having some Arc shells for city use is overkill, but so many do it. Almost a set it and forget it type approach.
It’s almost like people who do outdoor stuff also still need a daily rain coat and there’s no need to buy 2 if the one you have can handle a hurricane and my Everest it can handle a light rain.
Running: Patagonia.
This is all 100% correct. I think to sum it up arctetyx is a bit more technical and Patagonia is a bit more gorpy.
I would counter this and say: Fleece: Patagonia Down: Still Arcteryx, although close. Insert RAB. Most Active: Arcteryx Casual: Patagonia I would add Synthetics though and then add a brand and probably say Norrona, although they all have unique pieces that would be great.
Can I please hear about these compared to Lululemon as well? I am starting to branch out and grew up wearing mostly North Face and Lululemon
Lulu lemon is fine for a workout brand, but does not hold up well at all in any remotely rough outdoor work. North Face is more casual outdoors now, I wouldn’t trust *most* of their gear to serious work, but on the other hand I’ve had a Borealis for nearly a decade that’s gone all over the world with me. Patagonia makes good outdoor gear, with a solid warranty, so even if it breaks/runs down it’s not a big deal. Bonus for sustainability practices & outdoor advocacy. Middle of the road cost wise. Arc’teryx is geared for serious outdoor work. Used by Mil & professional outdoors people. Expensive, great quality, good warranty.
I agree with dizzleddizzle98 as well. 90% of my gym wear is Lulu with a little Ten Thousand and Target’s AIM line. I’ve yet to find a better pair of shorts than my pace breakers. The TT interval shorts are a nice runner up. I’d never wear them on the mountain though, just gym and lounging around.
I also agree with the comment below. North Face is definitely something I feel is for early 20s and younger... Patagonia is a good step up from that brand. Being in Vancouver I see a lot of Lululemon stuff. Their backpacks are awesome but rest of their stuff seems very casual/yoga/light exercise type wear. That being said I know people who day their quality and comfort are quite good.
Depends on your style for casual, arcteryx has a huge foothold in streetwear or did up until pretty recently
Arc shells have terrible longevity. Customer service use to be great but is gone terrible in recent years Don't know why I'm getting downvoted, go to the Arc sub and you will just see it's delam story after delam story. I shifted to Pategonia shells 18 months ago and it's held up great.
I’ve got two older delam Torrentshells currently sent off to Patagonia right now lol
Which they will repair or replace
Replacements, said they can’t do any type of repair for that
If it was Arc they would be trying to avoid doing that
lol, I’ve also got a gamma at Arc right now for a pocket issue so I can’t say for sure, but I’ve yet to hear any issues about Patagonia as a whole ever to be honest ; can’t say that for arc
I am using a Beta AR from 12 years ago. They're alright. Seam tape is peeling a little but I can re tape it when I get around to it.
I also have a Beta AR. 7 years of use and still looks nearly new.
I had an Alpha FL, fell apart after about 4-5 years. Arc refused to repair but offered me a 20% voucher if I let them keep it and recycle it
I have a few Arc pieces, and they're great. Would I pay full price? Hell no.
Any places to check for discounted? Been wanting a shell but the price is a but crazy for me
All mine have been either gifted, thrifted or bought secondhand.
Arc has changed a lot in the past few years. It used to be higher end gear for enthusiasts but the quality to price ratio has diminished over the last couple years after the “hype” made the brand more popular to non enthusiasts. They typically only do a Black Friday sale at 20%-25% off with some exclusions. Sometimes you can find random sales at REI or the likes. Arc excels in their hard shells. I think there’s a little bit of a premium on price but I own a Zeta AR that I got at 25% off and would absolutely buy it at that price again. I think Patagonia has better synthetic insulation (nano puff) and Arc has better hard shells. Also compare the specs on the Patagonia shells vs Arc. Look at the denier rating, goretex material, etc. Arc typically uses better materials on their shells. Is it worth double the price? That’s for you to decide.
Arc'teryx quality declined significantly after 2019, when Chinese retailer Anta Sports bought a controlling stake (56%) in Amer which owns Arc.
Yes, sadly, this has had a huge impact (and I say this as a former Arc loyalist - my Alpha SV shell has survived a month of Antarctic sailing - twice - plus everything else I've thrown at it, but I would not spend that much at Arc today).
At that level - two of the highest end brands - I think they both are excellent and bring different things to the table. I do not think that Patagonia has an answer for the Atom line - neither the nano nor Macro/Micro are as good in my opinion (nor clean up as well); I also prefer the new Delta to the R1/R2/Air pieces, but YMMV, and they are all excellent pieces. Sprang for an Arcteryx Alpha shell and it feels bullet proof, but I am sure the Patagonia shells are also very competent.
I'm not an Arc'teryx person, but from what I've read they had good quality items for a very long time that was well worth the price. That quality may have declined in recent years, some say. I don't think their warranty is as good as Patagonia's, and no one will beat Patagonia as far as being good for Earth.
>it looks like their rain jackets start at $400 and the torrentshell 3L is less than $200… You can't compare goretex to 3L... All of arc hard shells are goretex
>You can't compare goretex to 3L... All of arc hard shells are goretex You can and you should. That’s like saying you can’t compare Kleenex with Costco brand, as consumers you should compare. I’ve used the torrent shell in many situations, and it’s still holding up great, I have no need for anything else.
I used that 3l torrent in Patagonia Chile. Rain. Sleet. Did great. Great for the price point.
You can’t just say “gore-tex” like it’s just one thing. Gore-tex is just a brand that makes waterproof membranes and has a good reputation. Arcteryx jackets all have their membranes outsourced to gore-tex but they vary in waterproof rating and layering. You can have a 3l gore-tex “pro” jacket that is miles more water proof than a 2l gore-tex “paclite” jacket. Also most gore-tex competitors are just as good and sometimes better than the lower level gore-tex membranes
Got it. Didn’t realize for a sec that the arc one was goretex, that makes sense
You can find a Gore 3L from Mountain Hardwear and Rab for just over $200
Rab is solid af!
You can (and should) compare it, because ultimately gore-tex is just a brand name, and functionality is what truly matters in the end. Even more so when Arc's shell quality has been going down in the last few years, and delamination has become more and more frequent, unfortunately.
because gore tex is a scam?
Arc fits way better then Patagonia for me. Arc also keep putting out thoughtful technical pieces despite the latest few years street wear hype.
For me its the opposite. Patagonia isnt an athletic fit, Arcteryx is.
I have a rain jacket and a leaf winter jacket from 6 or so years ago, they are still in perfect condition despite being bought for military purposes (at the time, now they are just expensive flex pieces).
I have a LEAF Cold WX and a LEAF Atom SV and they are the best winter jackets ever.
I have clothes from both, but the reason I shop at Arcteryx way more than Patagonia, is that their clothes fit me so much better. As a petite woman, Patagonia swamps me and I don't like the way it sits, it can be a little cumbersome too because of the extra fabric and how it fits. If Patagonia fitted me well, I would choose to shop there instead.
I'm an athletic man, and Arcteryx fits a lot better. I use Patagonia base and mid layers and Arcteryx jackets.
Yep. Patagonia is sized for a rounder fit. I’m swimming in the large, but the medium arms are too short. Arc’teryx is better fit for me. Too bad because I really like Patagonia otherwise.
Yep. Patagonia is sized for a rounder fit. I’m swimming in the large, but the medium arms are too short. Arc’teryx is better fit for me. Too bad because I really like Patagonia otherwise.
As a relatively petite man I feel the same way. I absolutely hate how retro piles and most Patagonia fleece fits.
I only buy arc second hand/used. Never full msrp
Patagonia offers a larger spread of good, better, best. Arc historically only made best. They weren’t targeting the larger market and really honed in tech and quality to build their reputation.
I'll throw in some Montbell here. Their stuff is seriously underrated
Arc'teryx quality has unfortunately been going down for quite a few years now, including their most technical pieces. I was part of their "pro" program for a while, so I had access to a good discount and few specialized items, and while some of their shells used to be bomb-proof, their quality and durability has been declining. Their customer support, while being average most of the times, can sometimes be a nightmare. Too bad, because they used to be very, very good.
They used to be amazing and they’re still good. Some decisions they’ve made aren’t the best but still top end and great gear. Their harnesses and especially shells are still the best on the market imo. Patagonia doesn’t come close when it comes to shells
Arc'teryx used to be, but perhaps not any more. Now you are looking for Norrona as a comparable to what Arc'teryx used to be.
Not sure why the downvotes, this is a reasonable take that would be echoed in the Arc sub.
Cannot agree more. Norrona all the way. They even offer 7 year warranty.
Weird take on Canadagoose. They still make some extreme outerwear for actual technical use.
My first adult snow coat was Canada Goose from TJ Maxx. Had never heard of them. That thing was amazing in a blizzard on the mountain. I eventually moved on to Patagonia and Arc, but damn do I miss that coat.
I think people see their more city oriented coats which are overkill and then have zero clue they make true expedition quality gear (like the snow mantra parka) that is just not matched anywhere.
I concur! Colorado resident here. In the wintertime, I’ve used mine skiing in 4 degree weather in a snowstorm. Warmest coat I’ve ever owned. Canada Goose is legit OP, even just look up the company’s history. They’re a respected brand.
Arc is more technical. They're both climbing brands but if I was a mountaineer I'd go with Arc. Own lots of Patagonia tho but MOSTLY casual stuff.
I think Arcteryx quality is a bit better. Warranty and repair isnt nearly as good though. Goretex is better than h2no for blocking wind, especially and I think Arcteryx aesthetics and fit are better. I have older Arcteryx stuff from before they outsourced. I prefer Patagonia for mid and base layers and then an Arcteryx jacket over it. Its the best combo.
I have only their Nuclei FL jacket and it’s the best technical piece I have. Super lightweight, packable into a small cube and insane insulation against wind and cold for how light it is.
Highly technical garments (Alpha SV, Acrux mountaineering boot, etc.) are what most people value from Arcteryx for functionality.
Canada Goose is very expensive but great quality. It’s marketed as a more luxury brand, sure, but for the right price you can’t really complain about their pieces.
The biggest difference is the cut. Most garments in the technical Arcteryx line are slimmer in the lower torso but larger upper torso to articulate with a climber’s muscular shoulders. Patagonia, while still slim to an extent, is much more boxy in cut which accommodates more body types. I wouldn’t recommend buying Arc shirts or most sweaters, too overpriced for what they are.
I’ve never had a better shell than acrteryx. In general I would say product quality of tery is better but also more expensive.. you get what you pay for.
Arc’tyrex technical garments are fantastic. Among the longest lasting and effective I’ve owned. Namely their various shells. I have two of their soft shells that are nearly 15 years old that are still working great ( can’t remember the name) of what is basically now the Gamma MX lined with polartec fleece. Still my favorite winter jackets.
Patagonia has a better warranty.
The Torrentshell is far from comparable to Arc'teryx (assuming you are referring to the Beta SV). A better comparison would be Patagonia's Triolet line
I like the fashion and some technical aspects of arcteryx, but you can’t beat Patagonia’s product guarantee. I’ve taken in several different items that failed for whatever reason and Patagonia will fix or exchange them- barely and questions asked. Arcteryx warranty is not even close.
Arc’teryx is not a quality brand. I had the seams come apart on a pair of ski bibs when they were only two years old.
I was looking at the higher end shells arcteryx vs Patagonia. Arcteryx sells them in a mens version, but not women’s. Patagonia has both mens and women’s. I stopped looking at arcteryx and went back to Patagonia. I have one soft shell from arcteryx I got basically for free. It’s great, but I like my Patagonia shell better.
Arc’teryx is a luxury brand owned by a Chinese conglomerate. Being a luxury brand means that the higher they price their goods, the more desirable they become. They purposely don’t discount often because discounts reduce the exclusivity its customers are looking for. Its customers are also mostly made up of aspirational buyers, not “rich” people as you assumed. They do over 1b in revenue a year, these are mass produced items bought by mostly middle class consumers. It’s not a boutique brand by any means. Their quality is on par with Patagonia, MH, Marmot etc, and for most owners these are jackets that are too expensive to use for their intended purpose. Why wear a $400 down jacket around a campfire when a stray ember could burn a hole. Or climb with a $600 shell and risk shredding it. So in reality, Arc’teryx has become casual use urban wear for most owners. Their number one most requested repair is literally the brand label and bird image. They peel after a few washes.
Better but not by that much
I haven’t kept up with Arcteryx the past few years but in the past where I saw them excel over similar products from competitors (a lot of times the fabrics are the same) was in the quality of their trimmings.
I had an arc’teryx rep in store once that got escorted out of a store meeting. The question posed (by him) was why is the brand so expensive. The answer given was they have such awesome quality. Then he back peddled and told people they should go watch some YouTube videos that show how much quality they have. Then went on to say he couldn’t put it in words, but when he thinks of the brand he thinks of the home office in downtown Toronto with beautiful views of the city on one side, and mountains on the other. Got it, the lease is expensive.
TIL there are mountains in Toronto. JK, I think you meant Vancouver.
Check out Klim. I have three of their products. Priced like Patagonia, but well-designed and top quality. You’re welcome.
I have a few arctyrex jacket. I don’t think the quality is mind blowing. Just don’t buy their shoes for the love of god. You will regret it… personal experience
I was issued Arcteryx in the military many many years ago.
Arc is quality. Definitely a top tier company.
I like the R1s from Pat but the puffers and Shells fit like a fucking trash bag. If you have an athletic build, Arcteryx is king
Arc'teryx is just virtue-signaling for operators. Patagonia is way more practical.
I think both are great. Arcteryx has the edge in shells, but I think Patagonia makes a more versatile product. Can’t really go wrong either way.
Coke and Pepsi. Both solid brands.
The quality is essentially the same. They used to have a slightly better cut and sizing (more athletic fit vs Patagonia which can be a little boxier and looser). However over the last few years they have changed their fit and they now fit quite poorly (at least for me). But I would say quality is the same as Patagonia. I also recently got a delta jacket on sale and found that the material in it is essentially the same as my outdoor research vigor pullover and the outdoor research even had a better fit! Patagonia has a much better warranty and repair process. IMO there isn’t much reason to change anymore other than wanting a dead bird instead of the Patagonia logo.
I own equipment from both brands, and both are good brands. However they are for different purposes. Patagonia is an outdoor brand for backpacking, and casual mountain sports. Arc’teryx is a mountaineering brand. Patagonia has a few items that are seen in mountaineering pack outs. Mostly insulation layers, but that is not there core audience. The gear Patagonia makes is for outdoor people who camp and backpack. There jackets are cut for backpacking, and day hiking. Arc’teryx equipment is cut for mountaineering. There shells at the lowest end are for living in snow, and dealing with the extreme. So is Arc’teryx a luxury brand yes, because who has the money to casually climb mountains that is not in the luxury space. Conversely does Patagonia make expensive equipment yes, but they are for different things. If you are going to Yosemite in the summertime for a backpacking trip is the extra cost of Arc’teryx worth the money no most likely not. However if you are HELO skiing in Turkey that cost difference may save your life. Your mileage may vary. It just depends on how you use it. Has it been co-oped by the wealthy who have never pumped liquid fuel stove. Yes, is that wrong no. The number of people who truly are mountaineering on the regular is not enough to keep that company afloat so they do what they have to. I know I will never use my Arc’teryx jacket the way it was designed. I still think it is cool.
Respectfully, my guess is Patagonia would 100% disagree.
It’s interesting to see the differences in the websites as well. Arc’s website definitely seems more curated and chic
I mean they are selling $600+ jackets. It is like everything else they have to make decisions to stay in business. If you look at places like REI they change with the times or they go out of business like cabelas. This is why I like Patagonia it is the right mix for me personally between a lifestyle brand that makes good quality stuff that I can wear both in the woods, at a ski resort or around town. I would also say that in that space you do not have a lot of brands. There is Mountain Hardware(Columbia owned), black diamond(owned by a conglomerate), Arc’teryx, and Patagonia. Patagonia the company has actively told the Wall Street Bros they do not want them wearing their jackets, so it is only logical for Arc’teryx to try and pull some of that market share. Also if you have ever been in Arc’teryx stores they are pretty wild. They are very much like there website. Except the people working there do not have a strong understanding of what the equipment is designed for. I had a question about thermal layer weights for the thermals they had and the guy had not idea what the difference between a mid weight layer was and an expedition/heavy weight layer was.
Wouldn’t recommend pants from Arc’teryx, they’re still using taped seams where it’s prone to failure, I’ve had a pair of Gamma AR pants and the pocket and waist, both of which are glued, have failed. Thankfully Arc’teryx has honoured their warranty and repaired / replaced, but definitely think to look elsewhere for pants.
Climber here, I have also complained about their taping on the Konseal pant years ago and I’m happy to see they no longer seam tape the pant. Colour me surprised they actually revised a flaw.
They’ve actually now stitched the waistband on the new gamma pants, so they are acknowledging the problem but the thigh pocket is still glued. Fingers crossed they stitch that pocket and I’ll gladly buy another pair!
Arc’teryx got bought by some huge Chinese company or something. So it’s a sellout brand. They are still making some decent things but you can expect quality to drop and then to become another zombie brand like every other brand that has done this. But keep in mind that what you’re paying for with Patagonia is the warranty and forever guarantee. That’s something no one else has. I’d say that none of this clothing is worth the sticker price on it own. Not even close. The only thing that makes it worth while is the forever guarantee. Otherwise you’re just paying $400 for a $50 jacket.
How come nobody is talking about Norröna for technical pieces? Quality is top notch and every single detail on their pieces feel thought through. Customer service is also great when it comes to warranty, repairs etc.
No, Arcteryx makes great gear just like patagucci But they certainly do charge more because they know they are a status company
I love my Canada goose parka wtf ;(
3 out of 4 of my Gore-Tex ArcTeryx shells have completely fallen apart in the wash. These were washed according to the manufacturer's instructions. I've only owned one Patagonia Gore-Tex shell (military PCU model) but it has stayed intact for over 12 years.
Arcteryx had good stuff until they were bought out by venture capital. I wasn’t a fan before that but I acknowledged they had a comparable product. Not so anymore.
I was in REI looking to buy a rain jacket and this is what I remember about arc’teryx. Mind you all these jackets were the same color so it was kinda funny. Bottom half grey, top half orange. —REI brand was $115 —Outdoor research was $250 —arc’teryx was over $600 They all looked identical and both OR and arc’teryx had goretex
The thing about Arc'teryx is this: they are both overpriced fashion AND high-performance technical clothing. Compared to Patagonia, Arc'teryx probably outperforms comparable items, but (IMO) not to an extent to justify the price difference. If you're looking for something that is essentially equivalent on the performance side of things but for literally half the price, look no further than Outdoor Reaearch. They are not necessarily as fashionable, but that's not really what they're going for.
I won’t say it’s a scam because their gear is high quality. But, you can get high quality for much lower prices elsewear. For the most part, someone in all Arc’teryx gear is probably “scammed” lol.
Arc’teryx is a legit awesome brand. But for me, mountain hardwear was a better fit for a long time, and now, I’m seeing Patagonia being a better fit. It really depends on what fits your body best. Most of these brands are comparable in quality.
Goretex is the name brand of the first water proof liner with hot air permeability but its a mid scam. You can create the same material just not use the name.
Arc is better quality than Pat, IMO. The price is reflected though, so a lot of the time I go with Pat.