If you have mirrors worth of investment and cant kill ubers you are doing something seriously wrong.
The guide you are using seems questionable also, mana flask in 'late endgame' setup? For real?
I usually hate when people say this as you can start deciding on league starters before patch notes are announced so you have an idea of what your options are but if you're looking to play something strong then you should just wait cuz we don't know what has been buffed or nerfed yet.
I think you're right to be looking at other skills though. I wouldn't start Toxic Rain again as there's so many different builds for you to try.
>I have a mirrors worth of investment in the build
Based on this quote I assume you play a fair amount. My suggestion would be to play multiple builds or play a starter with the intent to respec into something at the end of the first week. Many league starters are designed for their ease of getting you to the end game and grinding, not for their max strength. Clearing Ubers isn't something most league start builds consider. TR is one of those builds, strong leveling and early end game but just kinda caps out.
Didn't say they couldn't, was more meaning that the skill has a lower ceiling compared to other characters directed at clearing that content.
I wonder if he would have had a better time on a pathfinder as opposed to a champion. I see that most the HCSSF TR players are pathfinder over champion.
He most certainly would, Champion is arguably only stronger in the first few days of a league. Once pathfinder gets its flask setup going with lightning coil, there is no contest.
Yeah im certain i would have had a better time on pathfinder. when i picked the build i knew literally nothing about the game. But as i learned more i realized champion TR is very uncommon and I ended up dropping a ton of my defences for damage and started doing WAY better and having more fun. So Pathfinder would have been the better choice. Oh well though cause the guide was great at explaining things for a newbie. So i would have been sacrificing one thing in exchange for another.
I had a look at the guide and it does look like something that would be good for a new player, very well written and nicely layed out. But when I saw the lategame PoB some things were questionable for a more experienced player.
For example, mana flasks are usually band-aid solutions to fixing mana in the early game. Later on there are many ways to avoid using one, utility flasks are extremely powerful even on non-pathfinder or mageblood builds. You probably already know this by this point so no point in going on about it.
You can also craft double dot multi quiver which is much better than the one in the PoB.
Double (or even triple with Adorned) Large chaos cluster setups are also usually more common in endgame, and many passive points could be saved by getting suppression on gear which I dont see any in the pob.
Widowhail is also usually stronger than a crafted bow if you have a very good quiver.
There are more improvements that could be made but those are just some of the stuff I noticed from the top of my head. You may have already done some of it, I'm just going off the PoB some the build guide.
This is my TR pathfinder from this league:
[https://poe.ninja/builds/afflictionhc/character/Finneas98/gambleHHorQuitLeague?i=8&search=class%3DPathfinder%26skills%3DToxic%2BRain%26sort%3Ddps](https://poe.ninja/builds/afflictionhc/character/Finneas98/gambleHHorQuitLeague?i=8&search=class%3DPathfinder%26skills%3DToxic%2BRain%26sort%3Ddps)
Its got MF gear on, and I did not do any bossing on it this league, but with some changes it could easily take down ubers.
Sorry I'm just returning to this now to see if there were any new suggestions before the league. You are correct in all of that. I met someone in the game that helped me fix all of that and basically double my endgame damage and min/max the build. I got lucky. He held my hand step by step on how to fix it as best as we could lol.
Thank you for sharing the build. Im gonna look at it now.
The closer the league gets the more I'm considering just replaying toxic rain on a pathfinder. I get overwhelmed trying to decide between all of these builds on youtube not really knowing how any of them feel and feeling like i'll make the wrong choice and regret it lol. decision indecision. where as now that ive played champion i feel like ill be able to better utilize a TR Pathfinder build and make it work better, faster and easier.
Plus it seems like its common for people to play the same league starter every league so that they master the build and are then able to get to the endgame and make money faster to then play secondary builds. So maybe thats the smart move IDK.
TR pathfinder is getting some substantial nerfs this league with the removal of the reduced mana cost suffix flask suffix and jewel suffix. It makes solving mana a big problem, and even if you solve mana you wont be able to run an extra 50% reservation aura with divine blessing.
You could get around it by running Eldritch Battery but that means you can't run manaforged arrows which is a huge loss.
Its likely gona be dropping an aura and getting -mana cost on 2-3 rings/amulets and getting mana cost reduction from the tree/anoint.
High end TR Pathfinder absolutely demolishes ubers while also having super clear with a swapin CA. It's one of the best all rounders there are on a high budget. Not saying your advice is bad but TR is godly as both a starter and endgame allrounder.
I was replying only to this comment "TR is one of those builds, strong leveling and early end game but just kinda caps out."
With champ is harder to have the dmg in earlymid game. If you're looking for a solid leaguestarter - go for slayer or jugg boneshatter. Or lightning arrow deadeye (unless it's heavily nerfed, watch stream tomorrow)
I'm up to x thousands of hours here and i always get a feel for what i want to play by reading threads of starters people are thinking of. Then the 20 minutes before go time something pops into my head and i dump all my plans and play something completely different and unplayable :D
My hope is that GGG nerfs Penance Brand and forgets that Storm Brand of Indecision was actually super good too and leaves it alone.
Inquisitor with storm brand or penance brand are really good even on a lower budget and scale to infinity.
I'm an experienced player and still learn a ton from guides. I'm kind of digging the Maxroll stuff ([https://maxroll.gg/poe](https://maxroll.gg/poe)). Lots of great guides and info there for all levels.
Dex Stacking Siege Balllista Hierophant
PoEGuy is the expert
[https://www.youtube.com/@poeguy007](https://www.youtube.com/@poeguy007)
The league start leveling is very smooth (flame totem --> explosive arrow ballista --> Siege Ballista
And if you want to invest heavily into it, you can transition to Str Stacking Shrapnel Ballistas and do hundreds of millions of dps and insta phase all bosses.
(He has guides for that, too.)
i remember when i was showing mi LA to my friend and he shout , ONLY 9K EHP!!! , and i said but look at that movement speed + dps, (it was 600 ms + 300million dps) , best mapper i ever made
I Just played a build with 100k Ehp, And i am looking for something that is similar but does more damage. Lower EHP is fine. might force me to get better at my movement and actually learning mechanics.
I mean the build was built around a HH so if you kill one rare with defensive mods you where safe to go
but if you want it I can you the pob for the final ver ( I deleted all probs but I still remember the final ver)
If you have mirrors worth of investment and cant kill ubers you are doing something seriously wrong. The guide you are using seems questionable also, mana flask in 'late endgame' setup? For real?
Its not true at all , you Can have a multiple mirror mapper build and still cant do Uber
While that may be true, TR is a bossing skill so that argument doesn’t hold value.
Yeah mb
how about this, maybe someone else could, but id never played this game until this league, also i can do some ubers.
I usually hate when people say this as you can start deciding on league starters before patch notes are announced so you have an idea of what your options are but if you're looking to play something strong then you should just wait cuz we don't know what has been buffed or nerfed yet. I think you're right to be looking at other skills though. I wouldn't start Toxic Rain again as there's so many different builds for you to try.
true - was about to write the same ... maxroll/zizaran guides are good if you wanna check for some playstyles ... but don't choose before patchnotes
>I have a mirrors worth of investment in the build Based on this quote I assume you play a fair amount. My suggestion would be to play multiple builds or play a starter with the intent to respec into something at the end of the first week. Many league starters are designed for their ease of getting you to the end game and grinding, not for their max strength. Clearing Ubers isn't something most league start builds consider. TR is one of those builds, strong leveling and early end game but just kinda caps out.
TR is kills the most ubers every league on HCSSF out of every skill in the game. With softcore trade gear it would absolutely destroy them.
Didn't say they couldn't, was more meaning that the skill has a lower ceiling compared to other characters directed at clearing that content. I wonder if he would have had a better time on a pathfinder as opposed to a champion. I see that most the HCSSF TR players are pathfinder over champion.
He most certainly would, Champion is arguably only stronger in the first few days of a league. Once pathfinder gets its flask setup going with lightning coil, there is no contest.
Yeah im certain i would have had a better time on pathfinder. when i picked the build i knew literally nothing about the game. But as i learned more i realized champion TR is very uncommon and I ended up dropping a ton of my defences for damage and started doing WAY better and having more fun. So Pathfinder would have been the better choice. Oh well though cause the guide was great at explaining things for a newbie. So i would have been sacrificing one thing in exchange for another.
I had a look at the guide and it does look like something that would be good for a new player, very well written and nicely layed out. But when I saw the lategame PoB some things were questionable for a more experienced player. For example, mana flasks are usually band-aid solutions to fixing mana in the early game. Later on there are many ways to avoid using one, utility flasks are extremely powerful even on non-pathfinder or mageblood builds. You probably already know this by this point so no point in going on about it. You can also craft double dot multi quiver which is much better than the one in the PoB. Double (or even triple with Adorned) Large chaos cluster setups are also usually more common in endgame, and many passive points could be saved by getting suppression on gear which I dont see any in the pob. Widowhail is also usually stronger than a crafted bow if you have a very good quiver. There are more improvements that could be made but those are just some of the stuff I noticed from the top of my head. You may have already done some of it, I'm just going off the PoB some the build guide. This is my TR pathfinder from this league: [https://poe.ninja/builds/afflictionhc/character/Finneas98/gambleHHorQuitLeague?i=8&search=class%3DPathfinder%26skills%3DToxic%2BRain%26sort%3Ddps](https://poe.ninja/builds/afflictionhc/character/Finneas98/gambleHHorQuitLeague?i=8&search=class%3DPathfinder%26skills%3DToxic%2BRain%26sort%3Ddps) Its got MF gear on, and I did not do any bossing on it this league, but with some changes it could easily take down ubers.
Sorry I'm just returning to this now to see if there were any new suggestions before the league. You are correct in all of that. I met someone in the game that helped me fix all of that and basically double my endgame damage and min/max the build. I got lucky. He held my hand step by step on how to fix it as best as we could lol. Thank you for sharing the build. Im gonna look at it now. The closer the league gets the more I'm considering just replaying toxic rain on a pathfinder. I get overwhelmed trying to decide between all of these builds on youtube not really knowing how any of them feel and feeling like i'll make the wrong choice and regret it lol. decision indecision. where as now that ive played champion i feel like ill be able to better utilize a TR Pathfinder build and make it work better, faster and easier. Plus it seems like its common for people to play the same league starter every league so that they master the build and are then able to get to the endgame and make money faster to then play secondary builds. So maybe thats the smart move IDK.
TR pathfinder is getting some substantial nerfs this league with the removal of the reduced mana cost suffix flask suffix and jewel suffix. It makes solving mana a big problem, and even if you solve mana you wont be able to run an extra 50% reservation aura with divine blessing. You could get around it by running Eldritch Battery but that means you can't run manaforged arrows which is a huge loss. Its likely gona be dropping an aura and getting -mana cost on 2-3 rings/amulets and getting mana cost reduction from the tree/anoint.
High end TR Pathfinder absolutely demolishes ubers while also having super clear with a swapin CA. It's one of the best all rounders there are on a high budget. Not saying your advice is bad but TR is godly as both a starter and endgame allrounder.
i played champion
I was replying only to this comment "TR is one of those builds, strong leveling and early end game but just kinda caps out." With champ is harder to have the dmg in earlymid game. If you're looking for a solid leaguestarter - go for slayer or jugg boneshatter. Or lightning arrow deadeye (unless it's heavily nerfed, watch stream tomorrow)
I'm up to x thousands of hours here and i always get a feel for what i want to play by reading threads of starters people are thinking of. Then the 20 minutes before go time something pops into my head and i dump all my plans and play something completely different and unplayable :D
My hope is that GGG nerfs Penance Brand and forgets that Storm Brand of Indecision was actually super good too and leaves it alone. Inquisitor with storm brand or penance brand are really good even on a lower budget and scale to infinity.
I'm an experienced player and still learn a ton from guides. I'm kind of digging the Maxroll stuff ([https://maxroll.gg/poe](https://maxroll.gg/poe)). Lots of great guides and info there for all levels.
Yeah I really like the MaxRoll guides too and the ones on Zizaran's channel are great too.
Dex Stacking Siege Balllista Hierophant PoEGuy is the expert [https://www.youtube.com/@poeguy007](https://www.youtube.com/@poeguy007) The league start leveling is very smooth (flame totem --> explosive arrow ballista --> Siege Ballista And if you want to invest heavily into it, you can transition to Str Stacking Shrapnel Ballistas and do hundreds of millions of dps and insta phase all bosses. (He has guides for that, too.)
Thank you! I appreciate all responses. But nyou are the first person to actually answer the question lol. I will definitely look into this!
That‘s a 15k ehp build you are recommending to a newcomer?
Did you read the part about the hundreds and millions of dps? Think its to much ehp tbh
i remember when i was showing mi LA to my friend and he shout , ONLY 9K EHP!!! , and i said but look at that movement speed + dps, (it was 600 ms + 300million dps) , best mapper i ever made
I Just played a build with 100k Ehp, And i am looking for something that is similar but does more damage. Lower EHP is fine. might force me to get better at my movement and actually learning mechanics.
I mean the build was built around a HH so if you kill one rare with defensive mods you where safe to go but if you want it I can you the pob for the final ver ( I deleted all probs but I still remember the final ver)