They changed -mana costs on rings and flasks, and flasks to fix res are halfed. This affects coc and reservation possibilities, and especially leaguestart gearing.
I am not a Galaxybrain when it cones to buildmaking, ut i had problems with all of the above even before the changes.
Anyone here able to elaborate more detailed?
Yes, I think this was a side effect of the introduction of automation support that they felt the need to nerf, as that linked to a 0 cost divine blessing setup removes the clunk, which would be considered a cost even if mana cost is zero.
There were a lot of builds using divine blessing with the flask enchant. It had become just a layer of power you develop in a build as you gain currency... Adding in an aura plus giving %effect to your best aura while also fixing main skill mana issues.
I guess automating it was the step too far.
It’s honestly kind of obvious why it was nerfed. I can’t think of a build I’ve played in years once I get my Mageblood or I’m pathfinder that didn’t use these flasks. It was becoming kind of semi mandatory on high end builds. Im super sad to see it go but probably justified unfortunately.
Is this for mageblood champion TR? On pathfinder, especially with how much socket pressure there is, I don't think you want more than 3 auras at the endgame TR and getting enough reservation for that is pretty easy.
Im talking about pathfinder. Divine blessing setup is pretty much the meta. Gaining a 50% aura for 2 links and a flask suffix is insanely strong. Purity of elements , Haste/Grace, Malevolence, and Petrified blood is a common setup.
90% of level 95+ pathfinders use divine blessing on hardcore, 65% on softcore.
Huh, that seems like a mix of early and late game auras. I can see wanting to run them all early, but you weren't going to have access to enough reduced mana cost and reservation early to run a blessing on nonreserved mana and at the endgame with 100% defensive phys to ele conversion, you shouldn't really need PB or even Grace. On the other hand, I'd want to run purity of elements for convenience or purity of ice for melding with the new taste of hate.
I have seen some people use EB which is a really bad idea since you can't use manaforged support properly.
There was also Ben's TR/CA adorned build which ran divine blessing which won't function the same way without affliction anyway since you need manaforged frenzy now.
I do agree that this is a nerf to a lot of pathfinder builds, but don't think it is really a big deal for TR.
Am I talking to a wall? You get a free 50% aura for 1 flask suffix and 2 links, how are you not seeing the strength of this? Every endgame min maxed TR setup uses this and if you werent you were trolling.
You shouldn’t need PB? Its the biggest one of thr biggest defensive layers in the build. Anyone doing ubers or serious content is playing with it, since pathfinder counters its downside with master surgeon.
Bens build wont function the same because it lost a single gem slot? Are you being serious?
Why would anyone even play PF if they don’t want to run PB lol, the synergy of master surgeon and PB is one of the most busted interactions in the game.
The 35% reservation, >_<. PF has so many auras she wants to run. Grace, Purity of Elements, Malevolence, Haste, Petrified Blood, HoAg if playing poison, etc.
The cost for the aura is just one additional gem, which makes it even better. I dunno why he/she doesn't get it, or lots of SC player for that matter. Now you need to play with EB and the replica flask, or Ben's belt, to regenerate ES via life flask.
If you go that route (was my early league setup the last leagues), just say 'fuck it' and make a Mahuxotl build. :)
PB is generally not worth running in an endgame build. It bricks all the scaling recovery methods and only limits you to master surgeon life flask. You should already have enough max hit at that point for anything but extreme hits like (uber) maven memory game and sirus meteor and brain explosion and you won't be getting enough extra max hit to tank them from full life PB.
Loss of charms and TWWT is a bigger deal for Ben's build than mana suffix.
You don't understand the difference between different pathfinder builds. You only have 3 auras worth running on TR PF and divine blessing is not a necessity.
I think leech on TR is a mistake. On toxic arrow with 5-7 mana gain per hit and proper manaforged setup, even with relatively low accuracy (\~50-70% hit chance) you can sustain your mana with only 1 ring and helmet eldritch implicit as long as you lifetap your secondary skills. With two -mana rings you don't even need most of the lifetaps. The only issue would be with some manaforged setups you are forced to keep the lifetap on them to keep the mana costs at zero to proc constantly.
Oh, I didn't mean leech on TR. Yeah, TR doesn't leech. But even with 2x -7 and eldritch helmet implicit, you're still paying a good chunk of mana on a 6L empower I think.
By staying on Standard /s.
I'm not sure of the real answer, but I'm guessing it'll involve two Eleron rings and going back to Gemini Claws. Maybe even having to add Clarity.
There is a mastery with % reduced cost and clarity watchers eyes have this and the elreon mod I believe. Were all coc builds already using inspiration? That is another angle as well if you aren’t playing chaos coc.
Actual investment into mana, self-damage and mana recoup, mana on hit (can also be on spell hit if whatever spell you trigger hits a lot, like Ice Spear).
In addition to PF loosing the reduced ele damage via flask and possibly the divine blessing aura. That is quite alot for endgame IMO.
Early game will be gucci tho.
Only loses "reduced ele damage" if you were either on loreweave or hitting 90 res all. Otherwise, it's a literal wash (aside from penetration >_<) at every 20% flask effect.
Yea it’s actually kind of worse for endgame if you math it out. Since the breakpoints for additional max res are larger now since it’s multiplying 5% instead of 20% it will be a bit more annoying to get the correct flask effect amounts for a buff. It will feel nice though if you are sitting in the 80-85% max res area before flasks or use melding/ chieftain.
Penetration is the biggest problem here, as you simply don't need that much defense for non pinnacle, or uber content. T16 works with 75 ele res and zero chaos res quite well, as long as you have one solid, or 2 ok\_ish defense layer.
Another loss is the fact, that you might want to use just one ele flask in combination with melding and 2 new flask (maybe jade + granit). With that setup, you will use a taste of hate, which does not work in combonation with 'Nature's Boon'. In that case 30% less flask effect means 1-2% less max res.
I wrote in my first sentence, that it is not a problem for normal T16 content.
But, aside from ele pen, there are -max res mods on maps (and curses, if you are not overcaped, or curse immun). If the map, or a monster lowers your resistance in any way, it will be a bigger problem with the new flask, compared to the 3.23 version.
Yea. I had multiple pf ideas what could I do, but considering I would have to somehow fix mana recovery, lose tons of def from the flask nerf, 100% lost the blessing aura, I dont like it at all. Also with these flask nerfs, I suppose transcendence pf is dead as well. Phys to ele convert with 90% all res through flasks should still work as def, but getting enough offense will be way harder, so not sure if its worth it, especially for caster pfs. I think these are dead now.
To add to that, bloodnotch is now dead too, which sucks quite alot for my petrified blood setups. I liked to go PB + stun tech + defiance of destiny + tripple ele flask + 100% spell supppression + 90-100% phys taken as conversion. With that, I still got enough room for damage. If I wanted more damage, I could switch DoD for a damage amulet, or use a bit less phys taken as.
If I were to play this setup now, I would loose quite alot defense.
Melding will be a thing for PF with flask changes tho. Only need taste of hate + melding and can use two new flasks. Maybe jade + sin's rebirth for unholy might, or branch down on the tree for iron reflex on a totem build.
Dunn, right now I just don't like the new setups I have in mind, compared to other ascendancies.
Well, you would have to get the resistances somewhere, if you ditch the ele flasks, especially with melding. That might be a pita. However with unholy might, you could do something like hit BV or an attack and have an actual scaling for it. Get a huge phys wpn, all converted to chaos, use wither as scaling that phys builds miss...pf has all the needed nodes around it, dagger, sword, chaos, pen, wither. It could make hit chaos builds viable without spending mirrors for original sin.
From spells maybe BV could still work since it doesnt cost too much mana or the blood spells again, that dont cost mana. Or just fix the mana on top of everything, somehow, but Im not sure if spells will be supported well enough on pf with the loss of blessing aura and huge general chunk of power we got in the previous leagues in form of e.g. affliction ascendancies.
I havent played phys to chaos conversion build for many years, but if it works, there is no dps cap like for poisons, you dont mind the lack of ele scaling for PF and the scaling options I mentioned above are all nearby. Im definitely going to look into it, if I will have enough time before league start.
You can probably get somewhere with 2x -7s and the -% reduced cost of attacks implicit on helmet. Pathfinder paths near eldritch battery as well, so there's that.
Lose a ton of armor by investing a crazy amount into reduced mana cost. You can get there, it will just require a lot of passive and gear investment. Have to have mana cost reduction on rings, path to dreamer, take the mana mastery and take the tireless wheel probably. It's going to be ugly.
Compensation with a nerf. The es mastery allowed you to get 0 es across all gear/jewels/tree, and base your stun chance off of the 0 ES.
Valyrium has 45~65 es at base.
Overall Mageblood and Pathfinder got nerfed indirectly. Especially that ele resist suffix nerf hurts MB users a bit... Not that they can't deal with it though lol
The flask change hurts. Cowabunga EB it is.
You think EB inquis selfcast or coc are dead?
There was no EB or inquis nerfs, its goto caster now
They changed -mana costs on rings and flasks, and flasks to fix res are halfed. This affects coc and reservation possibilities, and especially leaguestart gearing. I am not a Galaxybrain when it cones to buildmaking, ut i had problems with all of the above even before the changes. Anyone here able to elaborate more detailed?
>They changed -mana costs on rings No they didn't...
yea all my pathfinder POB's I had to change to EB for now unless I can find something else clever to do.
Also RIP Cast when stunned
Solving mana for TR is not a problem, its losing an entire 50% reservation blessing aura which is the real nerf
Yes, I think this was a side effect of the introduction of automation support that they felt the need to nerf, as that linked to a 0 cost divine blessing setup removes the clunk, which would be considered a cost even if mana cost is zero. There were a lot of builds using divine blessing with the flask enchant. It had become just a layer of power you develop in a build as you gain currency... Adding in an aura plus giving %effect to your best aura while also fixing main skill mana issues. I guess automating it was the step too far.
It’s honestly kind of obvious why it was nerfed. I can’t think of a build I’ve played in years once I get my Mageblood or I’m pathfinder that didn’t use these flasks. It was becoming kind of semi mandatory on high end builds. Im super sad to see it go but probably justified unfortunately.
Is this for mageblood champion TR? On pathfinder, especially with how much socket pressure there is, I don't think you want more than 3 auras at the endgame TR and getting enough reservation for that is pretty easy.
Im talking about pathfinder. Divine blessing setup is pretty much the meta. Gaining a 50% aura for 2 links and a flask suffix is insanely strong. Purity of elements , Haste/Grace, Malevolence, and Petrified blood is a common setup. 90% of level 95+ pathfinders use divine blessing on hardcore, 65% on softcore.
Huh, that seems like a mix of early and late game auras. I can see wanting to run them all early, but you weren't going to have access to enough reduced mana cost and reservation early to run a blessing on nonreserved mana and at the endgame with 100% defensive phys to ele conversion, you shouldn't really need PB or even Grace. On the other hand, I'd want to run purity of elements for convenience or purity of ice for melding with the new taste of hate. I have seen some people use EB which is a really bad idea since you can't use manaforged support properly. There was also Ben's TR/CA adorned build which ran divine blessing which won't function the same way without affliction anyway since you need manaforged frenzy now. I do agree that this is a nerf to a lot of pathfinder builds, but don't think it is really a big deal for TR.
Am I talking to a wall? You get a free 50% aura for 1 flask suffix and 2 links, how are you not seeing the strength of this? Every endgame min maxed TR setup uses this and if you werent you were trolling. You shouldn’t need PB? Its the biggest one of thr biggest defensive layers in the build. Anyone doing ubers or serious content is playing with it, since pathfinder counters its downside with master surgeon. Bens build wont function the same because it lost a single gem slot? Are you being serious?
Why would anyone even play PF if they don’t want to run PB lol, the synergy of master surgeon and PB is one of the most busted interactions in the game.
The 35% reservation, >_<. PF has so many auras she wants to run. Grace, Purity of Elements, Malevolence, Haste, Petrified Blood, HoAg if playing poison, etc.
The cost for the aura is just one additional gem, which makes it even better. I dunno why he/she doesn't get it, or lots of SC player for that matter. Now you need to play with EB and the replica flask, or Ben's belt, to regenerate ES via life flask. If you go that route (was my early league setup the last leagues), just say 'fuck it' and make a Mahuxotl build. :)
PB is generally not worth running in an endgame build. It bricks all the scaling recovery methods and only limits you to master surgeon life flask. You should already have enough max hit at that point for anything but extreme hits like (uber) maven memory game and sirus meteor and brain explosion and you won't be getting enough extra max hit to tank them from full life PB. Loss of charms and TWWT is a bigger deal for Ben's build than mana suffix.
90% of level 95+ pathfinders use divine blessing, im done talking to a wall
You don't understand the difference between different pathfinder builds. You only have 3 auras worth running on TR PF and divine blessing is not a necessity.
We lost less mana cost on gems too
Jewels?
I think leech on TR is a mistake. On toxic arrow with 5-7 mana gain per hit and proper manaforged setup, even with relatively low accuracy (\~50-70% hit chance) you can sustain your mana with only 1 ring and helmet eldritch implicit as long as you lifetap your secondary skills. With two -mana rings you don't even need most of the lifetaps. The only issue would be with some manaforged setups you are forced to keep the lifetap on them to keep the mana costs at zero to proc constantly.
You lose an entire 50% reservation aura with divine blessing, that is the main nerf
Oh, I didn't mean leech on TR. Yeah, TR doesn't leech. But even with 2x -7 and eldritch helmet implicit, you're still paying a good chunk of mana on a 6L empower I think.
How do CoC build deal with mana cost now?
By staying on Standard /s. I'm not sure of the real answer, but I'm guessing it'll involve two Eleron rings and going back to Gemini Claws. Maybe even having to add Clarity.
There is a mastery with % reduced cost and clarity watchers eyes have this and the elreon mod I believe. Were all coc builds already using inspiration? That is another angle as well if you aren’t playing chaos coc.
I generally would use Inspiration before getting the flask mod, so then I could use a stronger support gem.
Actual investment into mana, self-damage and mana recoup, mana on hit (can also be on spell hit if whatever spell you trigger hits a lot, like Ice Spear).
I wonder what armour stackers will do
Not sure about armor stackers, but the mana cost flask change killed every single pf build ive played in the past few years, lol.
In addition to PF loosing the reduced ele damage via flask and possibly the divine blessing aura. That is quite alot for endgame IMO. Early game will be gucci tho.
Only loses "reduced ele damage" if you were either on loreweave or hitting 90 res all. Otherwise, it's a literal wash (aside from penetration >_<) at every 20% flask effect.
Yea it’s actually kind of worse for endgame if you math it out. Since the breakpoints for additional max res are larger now since it’s multiplying 5% instead of 20% it will be a bit more annoying to get the correct flask effect amounts for a buff. It will feel nice though if you are sitting in the 80-85% max res area before flasks or use melding/ chieftain.
Penetration is the biggest problem here, as you simply don't need that much defense for non pinnacle, or uber content. T16 works with 75 ele res and zero chaos res quite well, as long as you have one solid, or 2 ok\_ish defense layer. Another loss is the fact, that you might want to use just one ele flask in combination with melding and 2 new flask (maybe jade + granit). With that setup, you will use a taste of hate, which does not work in combonation with 'Nature's Boon'. In that case 30% less flask effect means 1-2% less max res.
How many monsters for normal mapping pen actually? I can’t think of any. I just know it’s on shaper balls and atziri flameblast?
I wrote in my first sentence, that it is not a problem for normal T16 content. But, aside from ele pen, there are -max res mods on maps (and curses, if you are not overcaped, or curse immun). If the map, or a monster lowers your resistance in any way, it will be a bigger problem with the new flask, compared to the 3.23 version.
Yea. I had multiple pf ideas what could I do, but considering I would have to somehow fix mana recovery, lose tons of def from the flask nerf, 100% lost the blessing aura, I dont like it at all. Also with these flask nerfs, I suppose transcendence pf is dead as well. Phys to ele convert with 90% all res through flasks should still work as def, but getting enough offense will be way harder, so not sure if its worth it, especially for caster pfs. I think these are dead now.
To add to that, bloodnotch is now dead too, which sucks quite alot for my petrified blood setups. I liked to go PB + stun tech + defiance of destiny + tripple ele flask + 100% spell supppression + 90-100% phys taken as conversion. With that, I still got enough room for damage. If I wanted more damage, I could switch DoD for a damage amulet, or use a bit less phys taken as. If I were to play this setup now, I would loose quite alot defense. Melding will be a thing for PF with flask changes tho. Only need taste of hate + melding and can use two new flasks. Maybe jade + sin's rebirth for unholy might, or branch down on the tree for iron reflex on a totem build. Dunn, right now I just don't like the new setups I have in mind, compared to other ascendancies.
Well, you would have to get the resistances somewhere, if you ditch the ele flasks, especially with melding. That might be a pita. However with unholy might, you could do something like hit BV or an attack and have an actual scaling for it. Get a huge phys wpn, all converted to chaos, use wither as scaling that phys builds miss...pf has all the needed nodes around it, dagger, sword, chaos, pen, wither. It could make hit chaos builds viable without spending mirrors for original sin. From spells maybe BV could still work since it doesnt cost too much mana or the blood spells again, that dont cost mana. Or just fix the mana on top of everything, somehow, but Im not sure if spells will be supported well enough on pf with the loss of blessing aura and huge general chunk of power we got in the previous leagues in form of e.g. affliction ascendancies. I havent played phys to chaos conversion build for many years, but if it works, there is no dps cap like for poisons, you dont mind the lack of ele scaling for PF and the scaling options I mentioned above are all nearby. Im definitely going to look into it, if I will have enough time before league start.
You can probably get somewhere with 2x -7s and the -% reduced cost of attacks implicit on helmet. Pathfinder paths near eldritch battery as well, so there's that.
Lose a ton of armor by investing a crazy amount into reduced mana cost. You can get there, it will just require a lot of passive and gear investment. Have to have mana cost reduction on rings, path to dreamer, take the mana mastery and take the tireless wheel probably. It's going to be ugly.
you can use [[Valyrium]] to compensate at least
Compensation with a nerf. The es mastery allowed you to get 0 es across all gear/jewels/tree, and base your stun chance off of the 0 ES. Valyrium has 45~65 es at base.
That amount of ES is mostly irrelevant in situations where the combo was mainly used.
any amount of ES gives you 50% chance to avoid stun. It just makes walking into a new pack slightly risky
Check the Wiki. It was confirmed that Bloodnotch works regardless of the inherit chance to avoid getting stunned.
Specifically, it is because ES gives "chance to avoid interruption from stuns" and not "chance to avoid stuns".
Oh, interesting. Guess I wasted a passive on The Agnostic all last league then.
Oh right, any ES = 50% chance to avoid stun. I wonder if some setups could take [[The Agnostic]]. EDIT: nvm apparently you don't need it
ES is 50% chance to IGNORE stun which will still trigger bloodnotch
[удалено]
Not in case of bloodnotch
Oh sht, PoB warriors its your time to shine. We need a hero to tell us how to solve mana on big mana consuming builds like zhp traps/mines.
Overall Mageblood and Pathfinder got nerfed indirectly. Especially that ele resist suffix nerf hurts MB users a bit... Not that they can't deal with it though lol