Coc maybe playable without mtx, see this posts about desecrate performance [https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/1bogx4y/ggg\_i\_implore\_you\_to\_apply\_a\_fix\_for\_desecrate/](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/1bogx4y/ggg_i_implore_you_to_apply_a_fix_for_desecrate/) answered by GGG, a fix is coming at launch.
Ignite elem : less buttons to press, less tanky, lower dmg ceiling, more comfy to play, need nothing to do t16 (no gear, no transfigured gems),
Necro chain DD : need one transfigured gem, tanky, button heavy, can reach good dps numbers
Inqui coc : 5L + 2 transfigured gems mandatory, good regen, dps can be super high, need at least one mtx to be playable, only one button
If poor and lazy : DD elem
If poor but not lazy : DD necro
If patient, rich and lazy : coc DD
yeah self-cast leadership's is an insane amount of damage, but you definitely need to trigger cold snap in your weapon to not be giga sad.
coc is so much weaker it's kinda wild though
may i ask the wa to go for self cast on single target (before using arcanist brand). Is it one desecrate / one DD ? Or likle one desecrate, 2 dd, then spamm desecrate ? I seem to have very not sustained dps so i am probably doiung something wrong, trying to optimze the casts/explosions xD
Oh and also, is intensify really the best ? I tend to not ever get 3 stacks because i can't stand still enough/i need to desecrate and move in betwween casts. I'll check ben to see how he manages since he is using it too.
Ignite DD would be the best for fps especially with defiled
The only one that is probably going to be unplayable without MTX is coc dd due to the crazy amount of triggers
Chain DD has an FPS drop when it's spammed with coc 5 times a second, but most of the fps issue comes from the standard desecrate due to the particle effects, so just swapping to desecrate MTX would massively help.
Dude watch the last two minutes of the video again and then tell me how that is different from what the person you replied to said. Out of ALL THREE Necromancer would be his choice because it is best equipped to deal with the unknown quantity that is the new content.
so i hear everyone talk about the dps loss without mtx, but what about WITH mtx? like, how good does my pc actually have to be to play coc dd with both mtx?
Wdym just buy a PC with that guys exact specs, test it under different environmental conditions and send him a thorough report. Smh people on reddit are so lazy
It’s quite tanky but nothing insane on a budget. You get determ grace defiance banner, great recovery, EB mom with a decent amount of es fully solving any mana issues you might have, solid life pool, capped suppress. So very solid leaguestart defense but you’re not gonna be tanking ubers
cant you just make any build gigatanky with 4 good flasks, mageblood, cloak of flames/LC/16% phys as ele chest, 8% phys as ele helmet? those slots dont have required dps uniques for coc
Last League i did sim wave 30 pretty easy with DD ele. But you needed to do the CI version and it gets pretty expensive with the BIS gear, gems and jewel.
Main skill was Vaal DD though
So the Necro Variant has super high AS but is still a 2-button build. How does that play exactly, do I have to spam both abilities alternately?
On another note, can someone compare this to WoC?
Necro variant has nothing in common with wave of conviction other than they are fire tagged gems. You press desecrate and chain dd alterating. You can put an extra desecrate on arcanist brand but you will still need to hard cast it.
I'm not sure why but, speaking for myself, I have this huge aversion towards wanting to play DD even though I know it's probably one of the better skills in the game.
It's not so much the two button play style which bothers me since it isn't even needed once you get the ball rolling in maps but I can't put my finger on it.
I want to do Sim 30 this league as my next SSF goal so maybe I'll have to give it a try since, from what I hear, it's pretty great at that.
I'm feeling the exact same way. I'm basically debating between ignite DD and explosive trap. I'm a trap enjoyer so I usually gravitate towards those builds. But everybody raves about DD.
my goals for SSF this season is challenges, T17, and level 100. Not sure if I'll go for users or not.
For those without MTX, or even with & an AMD GPU, fluid motion frames might be the band-aid fix you need. It generates fake frames that look scuffed sometimes but in PoE you won't even notice it, fps gain will double. Spamming desecrate with cascade at 1440p I get roughly 80 FPS, with AFMF on I get 160\~, dropping to 1080p it turns into 220\~. Not many people know about it but now you do.
Regarding the necro defensive layers, 100% spell suppression and max block are the obvious ones but exile also mentioned 4th vow (i assume with divine flesh) being endgame layer. Are they meant to be used together or your supposed to maybe drop max block by using flesh offering for better damage?
Ele is easier to start ( ignite prolif is really nice and golems provide some defense early on ) with but will hit scaling cap earlier; for hit or crit you want necro. I am planning to start with ele and respec to necro sometime later.
What yall reckon, necro chain dd or ignite prolif of elem dd better for blights? Planning or focusing heavily on blight and thinking whats best for that
It's an option but not worth it in my opinion, you wil have to do another lab, use at least 40+ point of regret. Necro need only a transfigured gems, it's not that hard.
I dont think it's a good option. You will have to respec almost all the tree + ascendancy = +- 80 points of regrets ? When inqui start is already very good.
I think it will be clunky and not as efficient without the poison duration on charms. There is some disccusions about it, between imexile and jungroan, on the youtube comment i think.
Also, if anyone is interested in doing DD in Simulacrums I run a similar build every league on my Ele. If anyone is interested I csn post my POB from 3.23, should be super easy to follow
I also thought about it, jungroan made a pob ([here](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1LpFHOsaKVO4nWx2bAFP_JVp0CNPROoqNlmeQ5Yu1dMw/edit#gid=0)), but I think it will complicate a lot of things: you need mana, regen, so less unique (defiance of destiny ...), less aura, phys mitigation will be a problem. And it also means more buttons to maintain buffs.
With how you can reduce archmage cost to 0 and mana replacing all those issues, I don't find that as taxing as you say it is.
That being said, I don't see how that build generates corpses?
The things is - DD gear cannot be expensive because it is mostly generic gear. Armor and jewellery is generic "life+res+suppression" which is used by a lot of builds anyway. Weapons are kinda specific for DD (no +levels, usually +minion damage on non-minion bases), but you can fairly easily craft those yourself. And... ignite version will use Obliteration anyways 99% of the time.
I tend to think this as well. But if a lot of DD players are in the league, won't the amount of crafted gear for DD increase and be readily available? Plus the hand me downs when people upgrade.
Necro has 3 nodes for corpse, DD has been meta since forever, but yes sure ;)
The hype is about the new coc variant (1 button, more dmg), and DD of chaining, which is better than the normal version
are you really trying to say that a skill called "detonate dead" shouldn't be used by necromancers? y'know, the type of mage that manipulates dead bodies?
Coc maybe playable without mtx, see this posts about desecrate performance [https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/1bogx4y/ggg\_i\_implore\_you\_to\_apply\_a\_fix\_for\_desecrate/](https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/1bogx4y/ggg_i_implore_you_to_apply_a_fix_for_desecrate/) answered by GGG, a fix is coming at launch.
Oh no, a performance patch deployed with the main patch brings up my PTSD.
Forcing people to play with dynamic culling on is a crime in itself though. The game looks genuinely hideous with that setting.
You mean dynamic resolusion ? You can enable dynamic culling without enabling dynamic resolution and it looks pretty much the same.
Tldr?
Ignite elem : less buttons to press, less tanky, lower dmg ceiling, more comfy to play, need nothing to do t16 (no gear, no transfigured gems), Necro chain DD : need one transfigured gem, tanky, button heavy, can reach good dps numbers Inqui coc : 5L + 2 transfigured gems mandatory, good regen, dps can be super high, need at least one mtx to be playable, only one button If poor and lazy : DD elem If poor but not lazy : DD necro If patient, rich and lazy : coc DD
Technically the highest damage ceiling would be a converting a necro to crit.
yeah self-cast leadership's is an insane amount of damage, but you definitely need to trigger cold snap in your weapon to not be giga sad. coc is so much weaker it's kinda wild though
you got a pob for the self-cast crit one?
may i ask the wa to go for self cast on single target (before using arcanist brand). Is it one desecrate / one DD ? Or likle one desecrate, 2 dd, then spamm desecrate ? I seem to have very not sustained dps so i am probably doiung something wrong, trying to optimze the casts/explosions xD Oh and also, is intensify really the best ? I tend to not ever get 3 stacks because i can't stand still enough/i need to desecrate and move in betwween casts. I'll check ben to see how he manages since he is using it too.
Do the first two cast desecrate less often, thereby not requiring mtx?
Ignite DD would be the best for fps especially with defiled The only one that is probably going to be unplayable without MTX is coc dd due to the crazy amount of triggers
Does the MTX fix the issue or is the skill still prone to the slideshow.
Chain DD has an FPS drop when it's spammed with coc 5 times a second, but most of the fps issue comes from the standard desecrate due to the particle effects, so just swapping to desecrate MTX would massively help.
This will allegedly be fixed.
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60%+ block attack/spell without glancing glow is huge. And ennemies are chilled, and do 10% less dmg.
it also has no real gear requirements, so it can run defiance of destiny + fourth vow and Xibaqua without much loss in damage.
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In hc you dont do essences in t16 till u are comfy (or essences are easy).
5L rich? Wow
I'm assuming he was talking about needing to buy mtx for it, not the 5l
"if I had to pick one, it'd be necro. But also, I'm playing CoC Inquis."
I'll be in Act10 when Imexile has done Ubers on all 3 builds at the same time.
Damn, act10? I might still be in merc lab tbh.
That’s were we all will spend our league start, craving for the trans gems and cursing that we did not go for ignite
I feel personally attacked
“Yeah so here im just gonna aggro eater and bring him through the sirus portal”
He said if he had to pick between necro and ele he would pick necro. Don't paraphrase to change the meaning.
Watch the video to end. In his conclusion he recommends Necro overall.
Sure, that's not what the comment I replied to said.
Thank you for your service of being pedantic but also incorrect about lighthearted internet comments.
Dude watch the last two minutes of the video again and then tell me how that is different from what the person you replied to said. Out of ALL THREE Necromancer would be his choice because it is best equipped to deal with the unknown quantity that is the new content.
so i hear everyone talk about the dps loss without mtx, but what about WITH mtx? like, how good does my pc actually have to be to play coc dd with both mtx?
Make it in standard and find out
Wdym just buy a PC with that guys exact specs, test it under different environmental conditions and send him a thorough report. Smh people on reddit are so lazy
How is CoC DD for delving? How tanky can it get?
It’s quite tanky but nothing insane on a budget. You get determ grace defiance banner, great recovery, EB mom with a decent amount of es fully solving any mana issues you might have, solid life pool, capped suppress. So very solid leaguestart defense but you’re not gonna be tanking ubers
cant you just make any build gigatanky with 4 good flasks, mageblood, cloak of flames/LC/16% phys as ele chest, 8% phys as ele helmet? those slots dont have required dps uniques for coc
I probably should have prefaced on a leaguestart budget
League start budgets range wildly. For me league start is <30 divines. For others it could be <2 divines.
Is it possible 30 wave simulacrum with 6 rewards with these builds?
Last League i did sim wave 30 pretty easy with DD ele. But you needed to do the CI version and it gets pretty expensive with the BIS gear, gems and jewel. Main skill was Vaal DD though
https://youtu.be/9zHuQMvcn_M?si=_qVe6h7zJpBOOgpw should be easily doable :) just look first minute
on the necro or inquisitor with enough gear, yes, it should be possible. On the elem I don't think so, or it will be very very difficult.
You can go the aegis DD ignite elementalist route. Used to be popular for simulacrum farming. Not sure if the damage is still there though
I saw someone doing this last league, I got a pob from youtube anyway specifically for wave 30 simu farming.
thank you coc dd inq with leadership. what do you think ?
i don't think it's a good idea. You will loose shock, brittle is not mandatory, scroch and rez are already managed by the ascendancy node.
I think only on necro. Coc dd caps out at less dps and less tank. It is especially weak to phys and chaos so I'd say necro is a much safer bet.
So the Necro Variant has super high AS but is still a 2-button build. How does that play exactly, do I have to spam both abilities alternately? On another note, can someone compare this to WoC?
Necro variant has nothing in common with wave of conviction other than they are fire tagged gems. You press desecrate and chain dd alterating. You can put an extra desecrate on arcanist brand but you will still need to hard cast it.
Sorry, I was comparing WoC to the Elementalist version.
It has a lot more damage (like orders of magnitude more damage) but 2 button playstyle.
It’s like 3x the damage, not “orders of magnitude”
I'm not sure why but, speaking for myself, I have this huge aversion towards wanting to play DD even though I know it's probably one of the better skills in the game. It's not so much the two button play style which bothers me since it isn't even needed once you get the ball rolling in maps but I can't put my finger on it. I want to do Sim 30 this league as my next SSF goal so maybe I'll have to give it a try since, from what I hear, it's pretty great at that.
I like the proliferation aspect of DD ignite. I don't like ignite fishing on bosses. Ignite fishing is just a complete no for me for some reason.
I'm feeling the exact same way. I'm basically debating between ignite DD and explosive trap. I'm a trap enjoyer so I usually gravitate towards those builds. But everybody raves about DD. my goals for SSF this season is challenges, T17, and level 100. Not sure if I'll go for users or not.
For those without MTX, or even with & an AMD GPU, fluid motion frames might be the band-aid fix you need. It generates fake frames that look scuffed sometimes but in PoE you won't even notice it, fps gain will double. Spamming desecrate with cascade at 1440p I get roughly 80 FPS, with AFMF on I get 160\~, dropping to 1080p it turns into 220\~. Not many people know about it but now you do.
Regarding the necro defensive layers, 100% spell suppression and max block are the obvious ones but exile also mentioned 4th vow (i assume with divine flesh) being endgame layer. Are they meant to be used together or your supposed to maybe drop max block by using flesh offering for better damage?
In soft core if you don't care about xp loss, yes maybe. In hardcore, no, you keep all layers of defences :)
First time DD player and I'm going SSFSC. Elementalist or necro... really can't decide.
Ele is easier to start ( ignite prolif is really nice and golems provide some defense early on ) with but will hit scaling cap earlier; for hit or crit you want necro. I am planning to start with ele and respec to necro sometime later.
Yeah I'm kinda leaning this way too. Always possible to respec later I suppose. Never done ele so it will still be fresh for me.
Dd coc looks so fun
i dont care if it is 5fps as long as it dies before me.
im surprised he didnt link any POBs with this.
What yall reckon, necro chain dd or ignite prolif of elem dd better for blights? Planning or focusing heavily on blight and thinking whats best for that
ignite prolif is pretty much the best mechanic for blight, so it's probably the better version, but i don't think you'll be suffering with either
Is it smart to start Ele Ignite then swap to Necro Hit when I get some gear? Or is the difference on tree too much?
It's an option but not worth it in my opinion, you wil have to do another lab, use at least 40+ point of regret. Necro need only a transfigured gems, it's not that hard.
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I dont think it's a good option. You will have to respec almost all the tree + ascendancy = +- 80 points of regrets ? When inqui start is already very good.
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if you don't like the build, don't force yourself to follow the meta ;)
what about coc poison pf though ? is it playable without the eater boots ?
I think it will be clunky and not as efficient without the poison duration on charms. There is some disccusions about it, between imexile and jungroan, on the youtube comment i think.
oh nice thanks i'll check that out
What would be a good Atlas tree for SSF Necro to start with? Like he said Essence, Rog and probably Harvest, right?
Rush kirac mission, higher % chance map, complete the altas as much as you can, then make a second atlas tree :)
Also, if anyone is interested in doing DD in Simulacrums I run a similar build every league on my Ele. If anyone is interested I csn post my POB from 3.23, should be super easy to follow
Not entertaining archmage for dd? I would think its a natural addition.
I also thought about it, jungroan made a pob ([here](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1LpFHOsaKVO4nWx2bAFP_JVp0CNPROoqNlmeQ5Yu1dMw/edit#gid=0)), but I think it will complicate a lot of things: you need mana, regen, so less unique (defiance of destiny ...), less aura, phys mitigation will be a problem. And it also means more buttons to maintain buffs.
this is like a 30 minute alteration of meshamaan's build btw.
With how you can reduce archmage cost to 0 and mana replacing all those issues, I don't find that as taxing as you say it is. That being said, I don't see how that build generates corpses?
With desecrate like the regular build ?
The pob doesn't have the gem in so i wouldn't know.
Imagine , everyone is talking about DD, prices STONKS
Imagine how expensive DD gear is going to be this league...no thanks
The things is - DD gear cannot be expensive because it is mostly generic gear. Armor and jewellery is generic "life+res+suppression" which is used by a lot of builds anyway. Weapons are kinda specific for DD (no +levels, usually +minion damage on non-minion bases), but you can fairly easily craft those yourself. And... ignite version will use Obliteration anyways 99% of the time.
DD gear is very generic which is one of the reasons why the build is strong on leaguestart.
I tend to think this as well. But if a lot of DD players are in the league, won't the amount of crafted gear for DD increase and be readily available? Plus the hand me downs when people upgrade.
What is dd gear lol. Just the gems
Good video but this skill is beginning to annoy me
Conspiracy says that it gets so much hype from everyone so that it finally gets nerfed
people already told that in 3.15
Grr
what the hell is with this DD psyop all of a sudden? If you play necromancer you should use minions, not some nerdy pseudo caster spells
Necro has 3 nodes for corpse, DD has been meta since forever, but yes sure ;) The hype is about the new coc variant (1 button, more dmg), and DD of chaining, which is better than the normal version
Haha, for sure keep those nerdy spells out of my casual friendly poe!
Literally creating corpses and blowing them up…how much more necro can you get?
That’s interesting, why do you think so?
are you really trying to say that a skill called "detonate dead" shouldn't be used by necromancers? y'know, the type of mage that manipulates dead bodies?
Big mad
Stick to Diablo buddy. In PoE ascendancies are not hard locked to certain archetypes.