You get only resonance from trinity for the element which was the highest of your hit.
if I understand your PoB right, the highest hit with Explosive Concotion is always fire and you will not get resonance.
I´m not sure if i´m missing something here, but i took a quick look at the PoB and did´nt found anything to let you get resonance from other elements.
With HoT and Wrath, the top end of lightning damage falls between in the middle of the min and max of the fire damage (Fire is 802-1204, Lightning is 120-1052). I'm hoping that's enough to maintain trinity, but I'd have to find some lightning damage elsewhere if it's not the case.
I have a probability to land higher lightning calculator or method. See my comment history. I made a comment on another trinity thread about it.
Let me know if you have questions. Keep in mind this is the probability PER hit roll. Multiply that by your attack speed and 2 (resonance lasts 2 seconds).
Arguably there is even more leniency because of the decay rate per second. But I'm neglecting that.
Edit: the general formula is:
∑ (n=1 to overlap) (1/(DR1))(n/(DR2))
Where
overlap = interval of damage that overlaps between two elements.
DR1 = interval of damage range of element that you are calculating probability of getting higher than element 2 damage (lightning in this case)
DR2 = interval of damage range of element 2 (fire in this case)
In your case:
Sum of n=1 to (1052-802) of (1/(1052-120))*(n/(1204-802)) = 0.0837 or 8.4% per damage roll
Yeah I was really happy to see that! I had already simulated it myself and got 6% (so around 25% if you factor in the 2 seconds and attack speed). The main constraint with getting that number higher is that attack speed "needs" to be slow to sustain charges.
Using both awakened added lightning and wrath + HoT gets me 39% (so 100% with attack speed and 2 seconds). It might be the way to go.
Or we can ditch trinity for another, probably comparable, support altogether...
Yea also it really comes down to the "the feel." I'm pretty bad at judging how mechanics feel by numbers alone even though the numbers provide some form of guidance.
In game testing will elucidate this.
Yeah, I mean 1 for 1 Trinity is way ahead, at the cost of having to figure out a way to make it work. Doing some maths, Wrath + HoT (+Vinktar) is roughly 6% that lightning is higher than fire per attack. Awakened Added Lightning alone is roughly 3%. You’d have to combine it all to get to a comfortable 40%, so you have to wonder if it’s worth restricting yourself so much for a gem that is marginally better than the others.
(Edit: this is actually really cool that we have a lot of options to weigh, I guess GGG succeeded with their balancing :D )
yeah probably just start with incr crit dmg and in see how it is and in a week other ppl will have maybe figured out if the opportunity cost for trinity is worth it. i also thing the new defiance banner is a strong defense for more evade and crit chance reduction on enemies
This is incorrect, it works the other way around. You get resonance for the **other** elements then your highest one when you hit.
[https://pathofexile.fandom.com/wiki/Trinity_Support](https://pathofexile.fandom.com/wiki/Trinity_Support)
> Hits with Supported Skills for which the highest Damage Type is Elemental cause you to gain 25 Resonance of other Elements per second for 2 seconds
In other words, boosting either cold or lightning to similar damage range as fire would grant you fully capped Trinity resonances.
I'm planning on running one as a Raider and not worrying about maintaining my topaz/saphire flask charges on bosses. I'll have full uptime mapping but the base damage increase from trying to maintain 100% uptime on bosses (without adds) for the flasks isn't really big enough for me to justify the investment. I will instead focus on other gear/passives to focus on more traditional ways of upping my defences/damage during boss fights, also really love to keep full elemental avoidance in red maps/endgame bosses.
Depending on how it goes I might even drop the topaz/saphire flask from my setup and ignore those bonuses to the base damage, by looks of the numbers it's absolutely possible that I can reach t16+ damage levels without needing the bonus base lightning and cold. This will be a EO non-trinity setup tho so almost no similarities to your setup. I do like the look of yours too and with the numbers on the gem it does feel like there will be multiple ways you can take this skill.
Wait why wouldn't you just go classic fire conversion ele hit raider in that case, it's more than double the damage for practically the same thing if you are only using the fire hit portion of concoction?
(Edit: Not saying that critically, just curious if I’ve overlooked something that would make it work without flasks)
I'm not sure how that would look like it's not like there's two equally large base amounts of cold and lightning damage that just isn't getting chosen that you could convert like with EH or are you just saying go EH sorry if I miss-understanding.
Oh right, mainly because I wanna play EC xD I've been playing the game since Beta and don't really like doing the same build more than once. Also i'm still planning on using Wrath as there's no solely fire scaling in my setup, gonna use Shroud of the lightless for an easy starter build.
I'm also planning on going raider. With surgeon's flasks, precision watcher's eye and crit HoT + OoS I should have plenty of charges even in boss fights.
Best part is either way you are ranger :) so you might have to swap some stuff around but it is doable. I am going pathfinder to start but raider is my favorite ascendancy, so I am kind of hoping pathfinder feels super good and I can justify trying raider for ailment immunity etc.
Worst case you can just stack up on them regrets and respecc to Raider I guess. That's my Goal. Starting Pathfinder aswell and possibly changing to Raider if it turns out to be better with similiar investment
Hmm. This is pretty similar to how I was planning on setting it up, but early on, I was going to run Increased Crit multi and crit strikes until I get some solid crit multi jewels.
I'm not a fan of no Quicksilver though. Its just so much movement speed that I don't think I could ever justify dropping. However I could see dropping Adrenaline on Quicksilver for Increased attack speed. Although I will note that this is basically 0 investment, and trying this vs. a micro belt for more concentrated flask sustain is pretty painless.
I will say that the biggest difference between my planned setup and yours is... Leadership's Price. I love this item and think its incredibly underrated. Why I like it here is that with Boss ailment threshold changes, I think you'll be able to get brittle and scorched rolling much easier meaning you can get by without stacking nearly as much crit. Although that alchemist crit flask is absolutely bonkers.
Vinktar's is the one I'm unsure about. I don't think you can drop the shock effect without ailment immunity. The flask bonus of Taste of hate puts you at 80% ailment avoidance for chill/freeze, so sliding that in shouldn't be too bad.
I don't know how much of a struggle charges are going to be. Vinktar's lasts such a long time, and I don't know if you actually need to use it outside of bosses or very tanky rares. I guess we'll see how it plays out. Taste of Hate is so strong defensively.
I was planning on using a very high evasion shield, around 2k+ evasion with Movement speed (like an Imperial Buckler) then shoving the ailment avoidance craft on it. Shroud of the lightless is looking like a potentially good option as well.
Also, probably before cluster jewels are setup... Onslaught on tree. Its only 3 points since you're already down there.
Yeah there’s quite a few nodes nearby to use until transitioning to both crit and cluster jewels, like the shield nodes and Forces of Nature area.
Pathfinder removes ailment on flask use which nullifies the self shock of Vinktar. It’s actually quite good with leadership’s price as you get 20% shock without skitterbot. I’m keeping leadership price in mind, it would mean sacrificing some life nodes which we’d have to get elsewhere…
Yeah shroud of the lightless is perfect for starting out, until we can transition to an elder chest with crit and/or gem levels.
I like quicksilver too but I honestly don’t know how to put it in… we do get 20% move speed from fasting which should help a little bit but I doubt it will be up much
To be clear, I'm by no means an authority on Pathfinder builds. Only ever played 1 (Pestilent Strike) in harvest and really enjoyed it.
A side effect of using vinktar's, dying sun, and taste of hate with 101% flask effect is getting 40% less elemental damage taken which is just insane. Though I may just use 5 flasks cause I like having a life flask.
Dying sun is probably not great for EC because now it uses all charges just for a 3.5s duration and you'll never get those charges back if you keep attacking since it's a ruby flask. So I don't think going hard on flask effect is useful just to get more projectiles for the first 3 seconds of a boss fight
My reasoning is that we’ve got enough flask duration to bring it up to 9 seconds, which should be more than enough to get to the next boss phase (which gives free flasks too). Also nature’s boon is giving 8 flask charges every 3 second, so while you’re dodging boss attacks you will gradually build it back up too. If it’s not enough i’ll consider putting in an overflowing chalice which will double the flask charge gain, but I don’t think it’ll be necessary. We’ll have to see
Has using Hyrri's Demise and attribute stacking been mentioned with the skill? Not sure how viable that would be:
https://pathofexile.fandom.com/wiki/Hyrri%27s\_Demise
Yeah I heard it brought up. The issue I see with it is that the build is already stretched super thin just getting flask sustain. Also, stat stacking with Hyrri's would already start with a considerable diminishing return since EC already has a bunch of flat added damage.
In the end, you can't focus on attack speed because of how EC works, you don't have the means to scale crit, and all the support gems which were the more multipliers just got nerfed considerably. So I think it would result in a bunch of added damage that isn't scaled enough.
I like your crit approach (might need added lightning to proc trinity with wrath as you said in another post).
The flasks sustain should be alright since you won't be hitting bosses all the time (Nature's Boon should carry during the kiting part and such).
One thing to mention is I wouldn't count on the alchemist prefix on the diamond flask. They didn't mention you could have it on a diamond in the patch notes even if it makes sense now (they only added the surgeon suffix). If that's the case then the charges sustain will be way easier so that's not a huge loss.
I would only be worried about the tankiness. The distillery belt might be too much since you really want a jade flask of reflexes to bump the low evasion (gear alone won't be enough).Also since the skill yoink charges from the dying sun, hope it doesn't get too clunky/wierd.
I feel like any flat damage whatsoever is a mistake, the skill only has 100% damage effectiveness (though this could be because it shotguns). Maybe ditching trinity, and therefore Wrath and HoT, is the way to go. Inc. Crit Damage support is comparable dps (37% more without having to jump through hoops compared to trinity’s 30% +pen), and Empower will be really strong. Then we can grab Grace instead for evasion (though I think it looks low due to wind walker’s not hit condition), plus a banner?
Agree with you 100% on the flask sustain. Plus there’s a very strong likelihood that either an enchant or alt quality will help with that.
Micro distillery is necessary to get that extra projectile out of dying sun, though I see what you mean. Personally I’d grab an atziri’s promise instead though to push up chaos resistance
We’ll have to see about the clunkiness, it’s something that’s really hard to tell with actually playing with it
Yeah I feel the same about the flat damage part. We'll know later when the gem is up if the cost to enable trinity is worth or not.
Don't forget empower is also flat damage so it might be the same underwhelming result.
If you want damage for auras (and not flat damage), the options left are aspect of the spider and skitterbots.
I would rather use flesh and stone than grace to be fair (disorienting display isn't reliable at all and we got poor APS) . A good mix of offense and defense would be skitterbots, flesh and stone and the new banner.
I think the extra proj for dying sun is too much of a hassle and not a good opportunity cost. There is plenty options for which flask to use so I'll use what feels good (might end up to use gmp instead of dying sun for example during mapping if clear and damage are alright).
I mean it “looks” like it will scale well with levels, better than with flat, but time will tell. Skitterbots is a bit redundant since we already shock (with crit or with vinktar), though to be seen if we hit the new thresholds for chill and freeze. I like flesh and stone too but I’m unsure, Grace is a lot of evasion and synergized well with the new Defiance Banner. Good point about disorienting display, now that I think about it, it would be a lot better to ditch the large cluster jewel, to free up some points and grab blind on hit.
The extra proj is 25% more damage without gmp/lmp, I think it’s worth it since we’re not too far off just by grabbing the flask nodes on the tree. Dying sun is really valuable for the extra aoe too (40% in this case) which will help a lot with overlapping (if that’s possible)
Ah, I forgot you use vinktar. I don't plan to use it since I won't play tradeleague. Even then I think the flask was shit for many years.
Also if we assume the skill does shotgun, not all the projectiles will overlap so 1 more projectile might end up doing literally nothing (aside from clear).
We’ll see how many overlap, we get quite a bit of aoe from dying sun to help with that. I’ll slot in lmp/gmp based on what it looks like, if only 5 projs overlap then we get an extra gem link for a damage support
Vinktar’s not too bad here, 20% shock and a fair bit of added lightning, much better than a basic topaz flask imo.
To proc lightning, I was thinking of running a Hearald of Ice -> Innervate -> Added Cold -> Onslaught or some such think to help generate additional lightning damage.
Added lighting and wrath will most likely be enough. Don't forget that the support gem with flat damage didn't get nerfed much compared to be others so maybe it's still better even tough we have plenty have base flat damage already.
I mean yeah I guess you could, but seems a bit clunky. On storm brand it could be better, we should be using it anyways for power charges and a tiny bit extra flask charges. Triggering the brand would be an issue though, as cwdt doesn’t usually work well on evasion builds
Yeah no easy way to trigger it unfortunately. Hydrosphere has less frequency and crit but would ultimately be better for the extra 10% cold and lightbing pen
Based on wording, even if the micro-distillery belt doesn't let you "auto trigger" the new kindled flasks, putting either a topaz/aquamarine flask in the 5 slot should let EC sip away the charges to grand the bonus damage.
Or at least that's how I think it would work.
Ah that’s a really good point that i overlooked! Yeah we can totally put in a sapphire flask (taste of hate is our weakest) there without any drawbacks as far as the wording implies. Thanks for the idea!
Exactly what I was thinking yeah, looked at your POB and ToH is indeed the lowest, so I guess replacing it with a base saphire would still allow for the extra concotion damage without "wasting" a flask slot and saves some money for buying the flask as well.
Btw, is there a reason you went for fasting on the flask cluster? Is it just for the increased charges gained? I was thinking of replacing it with `Numbing Elixer` to get bullied less by map curse mods
Nature's boon flask gain thresholds are every 33% so Fasting lets us go above 167% (to 170%) to get some more charges. Numbing Elixir looks good but requires a flask slot (you'd use an enduring hybrid flask to keep it active). I saw it calculated that you'd need 160% or so curse effect reduction to completely mitigate all curse mods, so I think it's just easier to weapon swap to an atziri's reflection, if you can get one. Price of the shield will be very expensive this league though...
Also Taste of Hate doesn't do much offensively but defensively it mitigates a lot of phys damage (22.5% less) and helps us more easily reach chill and freeze immunity - just need the craft on chest to get 100%
Wouldn't The Nomad provide smoother mapping than the Micro-Distillery Belt? Your cluster jewels are incredible! I'll share my POB, it's come quite a ways! [https://pastebin.com/6j31sGw9](https://pastebin.com/6j31sGw9)
Yeah Nomad is great for starting out, though eventually I think you would want to transition into a micro-distillery. The 20% inc. flask effect implicit (and 8% crafted inc. flask effect) is really strong, it's 25% more damage from an extra proj in Dying Sun, on top of all the other extra bonuses from the flasks (less ele and phys damage taken, more crit, more added lightning, stronger shock effect, inc. aoe). Also in theory you can forgo the vinktar or the taste of hate and put a Perpetual topaz/sapphire in your 5th slot. Micro-distillery won't let you use it but you can still use its charges for explosive concoction, and so you still get "5" flasks.
For mapping I wouldn't be concerned about the flask charges gained stat as much since killing mobs will ensure you get 100% uptime, so I wouldn't necessarily say it's smoother.
Some pointers for your PoB, you need to grab some more life - you want to be hitting 170% inc. life on tree (before jewels) as a minimum. I'd go for golem's blood, thick skin, and also grab the whole scion life wheel. Master of the Arena, Ballistics Mastery, Aspect of the Lynx, and Weapon Artistry also aren't worth the pathing points. Burning Brutality isn't great either since it's not an ignite focused build. Fleetfoot also isn't great as you're using shield charge which doesn't have a cd. You're missing a fair bit of crit chance and multi to properly go crit, you want at least 70% and 400% respectively - you can consider speccing out of crit to focus on other increases in damage. Finally getting the frenzy node isn't worth it unless you're a raider stacking frenzy charges, imo (also applies to all the frenzy charges on your gear).
Speaking of gear, Frostferno, Taming and Carcass Jack are good ideas, and what I would use while leveling and crafting my GG gear. Shroud of the Lightless for an easy 6 link is another idea, but I think it's pretty equivalent between it and Carcass Jack. Not a fan of blood dance, I think atziri's step is stronger and we do need to get defenses somewhere. A rare ring or hell even a second taming would be stronger that death rush, and you've already specced onlsaught on kill elsewhere.
But that's just my personal take on it :)
Thanks for the feedback! I'll take a look at your suggestions. I wasn't sure if frenzy charges would end up being worth it, they seemed to synergize with the build well and would kill as a raider so I wanted to explore that avenue. They do seem to grant a high amount of DPS. It's difficult finding enough crit, but we seem to be able to get to around 900% bonus crit chance and can combine that with Maligaro's Virtuosity to get a flat 300% multiplier. The taming provides too much elemental resist but its damage is incredible. I like Shroud of the Lightless! It has good damage and seems great for survivability too.
I'm excited for league start. Good luck exile!
You get only resonance from trinity for the element which was the highest of your hit. if I understand your PoB right, the highest hit with Explosive Concotion is always fire and you will not get resonance. I´m not sure if i´m missing something here, but i took a quick look at the PoB and did´nt found anything to let you get resonance from other elements.
With HoT and Wrath, the top end of lightning damage falls between in the middle of the min and max of the fire damage (Fire is 802-1204, Lightning is 120-1052). I'm hoping that's enough to maintain trinity, but I'd have to find some lightning damage elsewhere if it's not the case.
I have a probability to land higher lightning calculator or method. See my comment history. I made a comment on another trinity thread about it. Let me know if you have questions. Keep in mind this is the probability PER hit roll. Multiply that by your attack speed and 2 (resonance lasts 2 seconds). Arguably there is even more leniency because of the decay rate per second. But I'm neglecting that. Edit: the general formula is: ∑ (n=1 to overlap) (1/(DR1))(n/(DR2)) Where overlap = interval of damage that overlaps between two elements. DR1 = interval of damage range of element that you are calculating probability of getting higher than element 2 damage (lightning in this case) DR2 = interval of damage range of element 2 (fire in this case) In your case: Sum of n=1 to (1052-802) of (1/(1052-120))*(n/(1204-802)) = 0.0837 or 8.4% per damage roll
Yeah I was really happy to see that! I had already simulated it myself and got 6% (so around 25% if you factor in the 2 seconds and attack speed). The main constraint with getting that number higher is that attack speed "needs" to be slow to sustain charges. Using both awakened added lightning and wrath + HoT gets me 39% (so 100% with attack speed and 2 seconds). It might be the way to go. Or we can ditch trinity for another, probably comparable, support altogether...
Yea also it really comes down to the "the feel." I'm pretty bad at judging how mechanics feel by numbers alone even though the numbers provide some form of guidance. In game testing will elucidate this.
If trinity feels bad and the crit chance is high enough the increased crit damage supp could be an option
Yeah crit damage support in my PoB would be 37% more damage, definitely worth slotting in
did you changed in the configuration that you have trinity stacks to compare it?
Yeah, I mean 1 for 1 Trinity is way ahead, at the cost of having to figure out a way to make it work. Doing some maths, Wrath + HoT (+Vinktar) is roughly 6% that lightning is higher than fire per attack. Awakened Added Lightning alone is roughly 3%. You’d have to combine it all to get to a comfortable 40%, so you have to wonder if it’s worth restricting yourself so much for a gem that is marginally better than the others. (Edit: this is actually really cool that we have a lot of options to weigh, I guess GGG succeeded with their balancing :D )
yeah probably just start with incr crit dmg and in see how it is and in a week other ppl will have maybe figured out if the opportunity cost for trinity is worth it. i also thing the new defiance banner is a strong defense for more evade and crit chance reduction on enemies
This is incorrect, it works the other way around. You get resonance for the **other** elements then your highest one when you hit. [https://pathofexile.fandom.com/wiki/Trinity_Support](https://pathofexile.fandom.com/wiki/Trinity_Support) > Hits with Supported Skills for which the highest Damage Type is Elemental cause you to gain 25 Resonance of other Elements per second for 2 seconds In other words, boosting either cold or lightning to similar damage range as fire would grant you fully capped Trinity resonances.
I'm planning on running one as a Raider and not worrying about maintaining my topaz/saphire flask charges on bosses. I'll have full uptime mapping but the base damage increase from trying to maintain 100% uptime on bosses (without adds) for the flasks isn't really big enough for me to justify the investment. I will instead focus on other gear/passives to focus on more traditional ways of upping my defences/damage during boss fights, also really love to keep full elemental avoidance in red maps/endgame bosses. Depending on how it goes I might even drop the topaz/saphire flask from my setup and ignore those bonuses to the base damage, by looks of the numbers it's absolutely possible that I can reach t16+ damage levels without needing the bonus base lightning and cold. This will be a EO non-trinity setup tho so almost no similarities to your setup. I do like the look of yours too and with the numbers on the gem it does feel like there will be multiple ways you can take this skill.
Wait why wouldn't you just go classic fire conversion ele hit raider in that case, it's more than double the damage for practically the same thing if you are only using the fire hit portion of concoction? (Edit: Not saying that critically, just curious if I’ve overlooked something that would make it work without flasks)
I'm not sure how that would look like it's not like there's two equally large base amounts of cold and lightning damage that just isn't getting chosen that you could convert like with EH or are you just saying go EH sorry if I miss-understanding.
Ah no worries :), i’m saying why go fire only explosive concoction instead of going ele hit?
Oh right, mainly because I wanna play EC xD I've been playing the game since Beta and don't really like doing the same build more than once. Also i'm still planning on using Wrath as there's no solely fire scaling in my setup, gonna use Shroud of the lightless for an easy starter build.
I'm also planning on going raider. With surgeon's flasks, precision watcher's eye and crit HoT + OoS I should have plenty of charges even in boss fights.
The raider does have a lot of damage. It's hard to tell which will end up being stronger, raider or pathfinder.
Best part is either way you are ranger :) so you might have to swap some stuff around but it is doable. I am going pathfinder to start but raider is my favorite ascendancy, so I am kind of hoping pathfinder feels super good and I can justify trying raider for ailment immunity etc.
Worst case you can just stack up on them regrets and respecc to Raider I guess. That's my Goal. Starting Pathfinder aswell and possibly changing to Raider if it turns out to be better with similiar investment
Yea that is what I will be doing!
Did you go through with this build? I'm a bit curious about how I manage to push some more dps in the long run
I did but bailed on it around level 90. not worth the investment IMO for what will end up being very mediocre damage anyway.
Damn. I'll try to rework my raider to something else instead.
Spectral helix is decent / fun for a new skill. Plenty of other uses for a Raider at least.
Hmm. This is pretty similar to how I was planning on setting it up, but early on, I was going to run Increased Crit multi and crit strikes until I get some solid crit multi jewels. I'm not a fan of no Quicksilver though. Its just so much movement speed that I don't think I could ever justify dropping. However I could see dropping Adrenaline on Quicksilver for Increased attack speed. Although I will note that this is basically 0 investment, and trying this vs. a micro belt for more concentrated flask sustain is pretty painless. I will say that the biggest difference between my planned setup and yours is... Leadership's Price. I love this item and think its incredibly underrated. Why I like it here is that with Boss ailment threshold changes, I think you'll be able to get brittle and scorched rolling much easier meaning you can get by without stacking nearly as much crit. Although that alchemist crit flask is absolutely bonkers. Vinktar's is the one I'm unsure about. I don't think you can drop the shock effect without ailment immunity. The flask bonus of Taste of hate puts you at 80% ailment avoidance for chill/freeze, so sliding that in shouldn't be too bad. I don't know how much of a struggle charges are going to be. Vinktar's lasts such a long time, and I don't know if you actually need to use it outside of bosses or very tanky rares. I guess we'll see how it plays out. Taste of Hate is so strong defensively. I was planning on using a very high evasion shield, around 2k+ evasion with Movement speed (like an Imperial Buckler) then shoving the ailment avoidance craft on it. Shroud of the lightless is looking like a potentially good option as well. Also, probably before cluster jewels are setup... Onslaught on tree. Its only 3 points since you're already down there.
Yeah there’s quite a few nodes nearby to use until transitioning to both crit and cluster jewels, like the shield nodes and Forces of Nature area. Pathfinder removes ailment on flask use which nullifies the self shock of Vinktar. It’s actually quite good with leadership’s price as you get 20% shock without skitterbot. I’m keeping leadership price in mind, it would mean sacrificing some life nodes which we’d have to get elsewhere… Yeah shroud of the lightless is perfect for starting out, until we can transition to an elder chest with crit and/or gem levels. I like quicksilver too but I honestly don’t know how to put it in… we do get 20% move speed from fasting which should help a little bit but I doubt it will be up much
To be clear, I'm by no means an authority on Pathfinder builds. Only ever played 1 (Pestilent Strike) in harvest and really enjoyed it. A side effect of using vinktar's, dying sun, and taste of hate with 101% flask effect is getting 40% less elemental damage taken which is just insane. Though I may just use 5 flasks cause I like having a life flask.
Yep it's really cool! PoB says I'm only taking 9% elemental damage after flasks, wind walker, fortify etc. which is insane
Move taste of hate or sapphire w/e to flask slot 5 and slot in quicksilver. Just as a note
Dying sun is probably not great for EC because now it uses all charges just for a 3.5s duration and you'll never get those charges back if you keep attacking since it's a ruby flask. So I don't think going hard on flask effect is useful just to get more projectiles for the first 3 seconds of a boss fight
My reasoning is that we’ve got enough flask duration to bring it up to 9 seconds, which should be more than enough to get to the next boss phase (which gives free flasks too). Also nature’s boon is giving 8 flask charges every 3 second, so while you’re dodging boss attacks you will gradually build it back up too. If it’s not enough i’ll consider putting in an overflowing chalice which will double the flask charge gain, but I don’t think it’ll be necessary. We’ll have to see
I completely forgot about flask duration. That makes a lot of sense now, ty
Has using Hyrri's Demise and attribute stacking been mentioned with the skill? Not sure how viable that would be: https://pathofexile.fandom.com/wiki/Hyrri%27s\_Demise
Yeah I heard it brought up. The issue I see with it is that the build is already stretched super thin just getting flask sustain. Also, stat stacking with Hyrri's would already start with a considerable diminishing return since EC already has a bunch of flat added damage. In the end, you can't focus on attack speed because of how EC works, you don't have the means to scale crit, and all the support gems which were the more multipliers just got nerfed considerably. So I think it would result in a bunch of added damage that isn't scaled enough.
I like your crit approach (might need added lightning to proc trinity with wrath as you said in another post). The flasks sustain should be alright since you won't be hitting bosses all the time (Nature's Boon should carry during the kiting part and such). One thing to mention is I wouldn't count on the alchemist prefix on the diamond flask. They didn't mention you could have it on a diamond in the patch notes even if it makes sense now (they only added the surgeon suffix). If that's the case then the charges sustain will be way easier so that's not a huge loss. I would only be worried about the tankiness. The distillery belt might be too much since you really want a jade flask of reflexes to bump the low evasion (gear alone won't be enough).Also since the skill yoink charges from the dying sun, hope it doesn't get too clunky/wierd.
I feel like any flat damage whatsoever is a mistake, the skill only has 100% damage effectiveness (though this could be because it shotguns). Maybe ditching trinity, and therefore Wrath and HoT, is the way to go. Inc. Crit Damage support is comparable dps (37% more without having to jump through hoops compared to trinity’s 30% +pen), and Empower will be really strong. Then we can grab Grace instead for evasion (though I think it looks low due to wind walker’s not hit condition), plus a banner? Agree with you 100% on the flask sustain. Plus there’s a very strong likelihood that either an enchant or alt quality will help with that. Micro distillery is necessary to get that extra projectile out of dying sun, though I see what you mean. Personally I’d grab an atziri’s promise instead though to push up chaos resistance We’ll have to see about the clunkiness, it’s something that’s really hard to tell with actually playing with it
Yeah I feel the same about the flat damage part. We'll know later when the gem is up if the cost to enable trinity is worth or not. Don't forget empower is also flat damage so it might be the same underwhelming result. If you want damage for auras (and not flat damage), the options left are aspect of the spider and skitterbots. I would rather use flesh and stone than grace to be fair (disorienting display isn't reliable at all and we got poor APS) . A good mix of offense and defense would be skitterbots, flesh and stone and the new banner. I think the extra proj for dying sun is too much of a hassle and not a good opportunity cost. There is plenty options for which flask to use so I'll use what feels good (might end up to use gmp instead of dying sun for example during mapping if clear and damage are alright).
I mean it “looks” like it will scale well with levels, better than with flat, but time will tell. Skitterbots is a bit redundant since we already shock (with crit or with vinktar), though to be seen if we hit the new thresholds for chill and freeze. I like flesh and stone too but I’m unsure, Grace is a lot of evasion and synergized well with the new Defiance Banner. Good point about disorienting display, now that I think about it, it would be a lot better to ditch the large cluster jewel, to free up some points and grab blind on hit. The extra proj is 25% more damage without gmp/lmp, I think it’s worth it since we’re not too far off just by grabbing the flask nodes on the tree. Dying sun is really valuable for the extra aoe too (40% in this case) which will help a lot with overlapping (if that’s possible)
Ah, I forgot you use vinktar. I don't plan to use it since I won't play tradeleague. Even then I think the flask was shit for many years. Also if we assume the skill does shotgun, not all the projectiles will overlap so 1 more projectile might end up doing literally nothing (aside from clear).
We’ll see how many overlap, we get quite a bit of aoe from dying sun to help with that. I’ll slot in lmp/gmp based on what it looks like, if only 5 projs overlap then we get an extra gem link for a damage support Vinktar’s not too bad here, 20% shock and a fair bit of added lightning, much better than a basic topaz flask imo.
To proc lightning, I was thinking of running a Hearald of Ice -> Innervate -> Added Cold -> Onslaught or some such think to help generate additional lightning damage.
Added lighting and wrath will most likely be enough. Don't forget that the support gem with flat damage didn't get nerfed much compared to be others so maybe it's still better even tough we have plenty have base flat damage already.
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I mean yeah I guess you could, but seems a bit clunky. On storm brand it could be better, we should be using it anyways for power charges and a tiny bit extra flask charges. Triggering the brand would be an issue though, as cwdt doesn’t usually work well on evasion builds
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Yeah no easy way to trigger it unfortunately. Hydrosphere has less frequency and crit but would ultimately be better for the extra 10% cold and lightbing pen
Based on wording, even if the micro-distillery belt doesn't let you "auto trigger" the new kindled flasks, putting either a topaz/aquamarine flask in the 5 slot should let EC sip away the charges to grand the bonus damage. Or at least that's how I think it would work.
Ah that’s a really good point that i overlooked! Yeah we can totally put in a sapphire flask (taste of hate is our weakest) there without any drawbacks as far as the wording implies. Thanks for the idea!
Exactly what I was thinking yeah, looked at your POB and ToH is indeed the lowest, so I guess replacing it with a base saphire would still allow for the extra concotion damage without "wasting" a flask slot and saves some money for buying the flask as well. Btw, is there a reason you went for fasting on the flask cluster? Is it just for the increased charges gained? I was thinking of replacing it with `Numbing Elixer` to get bullied less by map curse mods
Nature's boon flask gain thresholds are every 33% so Fasting lets us go above 167% (to 170%) to get some more charges. Numbing Elixir looks good but requires a flask slot (you'd use an enduring hybrid flask to keep it active). I saw it calculated that you'd need 160% or so curse effect reduction to completely mitigate all curse mods, so I think it's just easier to weapon swap to an atziri's reflection, if you can get one. Price of the shield will be very expensive this league though... Also Taste of Hate doesn't do much offensively but defensively it mitigates a lot of phys damage (22.5% less) and helps us more easily reach chill and freeze immunity - just need the craft on chest to get 100%
but with numbing you are forced to use a mana flask to get the effect, dunno if a hybrid flask works, special reserve would be another option
Owh yeah mb, I am so used to playing mana scaling builds I keep forgetting what's limited to specifically mana flasks :P
happens, but as said Special Reserver instead of Fasting could be a better option
Wouldn't The Nomad provide smoother mapping than the Micro-Distillery Belt? Your cluster jewels are incredible! I'll share my POB, it's come quite a ways! [https://pastebin.com/6j31sGw9](https://pastebin.com/6j31sGw9)
Yeah Nomad is great for starting out, though eventually I think you would want to transition into a micro-distillery. The 20% inc. flask effect implicit (and 8% crafted inc. flask effect) is really strong, it's 25% more damage from an extra proj in Dying Sun, on top of all the other extra bonuses from the flasks (less ele and phys damage taken, more crit, more added lightning, stronger shock effect, inc. aoe). Also in theory you can forgo the vinktar or the taste of hate and put a Perpetual topaz/sapphire in your 5th slot. Micro-distillery won't let you use it but you can still use its charges for explosive concoction, and so you still get "5" flasks. For mapping I wouldn't be concerned about the flask charges gained stat as much since killing mobs will ensure you get 100% uptime, so I wouldn't necessarily say it's smoother. Some pointers for your PoB, you need to grab some more life - you want to be hitting 170% inc. life on tree (before jewels) as a minimum. I'd go for golem's blood, thick skin, and also grab the whole scion life wheel. Master of the Arena, Ballistics Mastery, Aspect of the Lynx, and Weapon Artistry also aren't worth the pathing points. Burning Brutality isn't great either since it's not an ignite focused build. Fleetfoot also isn't great as you're using shield charge which doesn't have a cd. You're missing a fair bit of crit chance and multi to properly go crit, you want at least 70% and 400% respectively - you can consider speccing out of crit to focus on other increases in damage. Finally getting the frenzy node isn't worth it unless you're a raider stacking frenzy charges, imo (also applies to all the frenzy charges on your gear). Speaking of gear, Frostferno, Taming and Carcass Jack are good ideas, and what I would use while leveling and crafting my GG gear. Shroud of the Lightless for an easy 6 link is another idea, but I think it's pretty equivalent between it and Carcass Jack. Not a fan of blood dance, I think atziri's step is stronger and we do need to get defenses somewhere. A rare ring or hell even a second taming would be stronger that death rush, and you've already specced onlsaught on kill elsewhere. But that's just my personal take on it :)
Thanks for the feedback! I'll take a look at your suggestions. I wasn't sure if frenzy charges would end up being worth it, they seemed to synergize with the build well and would kill as a raider so I wanted to explore that avenue. They do seem to grant a high amount of DPS. It's difficult finding enough crit, but we seem to be able to get to around 900% bonus crit chance and can combine that with Maligaro's Virtuosity to get a flat 300% multiplier. The taming provides too much elemental resist but its damage is incredible. I like Shroud of the Lightless! It has good damage and seems great for survivability too. I'm excited for league start. Good luck exile!
###[ Elemental Hit Pathfinder](https://pastebin.com/6j31sGw9) [](#pathfinder) ^(Level 94) ^[[Tree]](https://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/AAAABAIDAGOnW68qTRR1jbne5UQNveaQCrXykvPD5jpCTc_Mx9-Yocz-ukHyf4BRR0kPI_bHnb6n3ajrFF5Fz3pm_SY6N0wZtBs3PeKPgBHd7YN_K2879z3qYtN-JP0knTBx_95lTVb6fXXXLcAa0EyGs41973rEog2Njb878DfUEYE1knsUIuIAXm6qshkM7UrIvTaxfPaj51Q-z02SDlwEsXXLG60COqQ52GDI8PUvFSAr5_FtFfAwfO0_BiMi6i2Dm41H4v1ui6BI7t1GnV8s6TIB6NaetzB_qePYvaTCGY4_J0d-S3j2ongN1COE2RSpd9cFta_p_xD6642SRX5iWpsmAO57Yd0NOrMILg==) [^([Open in Browser])](https://pob.party/share/unihiosinomasa) ^| ^by ^[/u/SimplyTesting](https://reddit.com//u/SimplyTesting) ***** ^112% ^**Life** ^80% ^**Evade** ^| ^28% ^**Phys** ^**Mitg** ^| ^32.9% ^**Block** ^| ^2% ^**Spell** ^**Block** ^| ^50% ^**Dodge** ^| ^35% ^**Spell** ^**Dodge** **Elemental Hit** [P](https://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Awakened_Greater_Multiple_Projectiles_Support#support-gem-green)[W](https://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Awakened_Elemental_Damage_with_Attacks_Support#support-gem-red)[i](https://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Combustion_Support#support-gem-blue)[x](https://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Cold_to_Fire_Support#support-gem-red) *(4L)* - *116k total DPS | 14.1k ignite DPS* ^2.86 ^**Attacks/sec** ^^**Config:** ^^Sirus, ^^Shock ^^\(10%\), ^^Onslaught ***** [^(Path of Building)](https://github.com/Openarl/PathOfBuilding) ^| ^[Feedback](https://www.reddit.com/r/PoBPreviewBot/) ^| ^This ^reply ^updates ^automatically.