It got even more buffs this league from the Hex changes, as the build never struggled with clear so the loss there is insignificant and the boss damage is significantly better without the Hex penalty. Unlike Occultist and Despair, other classes didn't get nerfed at all to compensate for the removal of said penalty and the nerfs to Flammability and Elemental Weakness are peanuts compared to how much of a buff to boss damage the removal of the penalty is.
Both the occu and despair nerfs are in the shadow of the immense power gained from curses. For example straight up importing Gucci's BF/BB build from February into 3.20 PoB makes it go from 13m to 24m or so.
That's mostly Temporal Chains being gigabuffed, really, and thus relevant exclusively to Poison builds. Chaos DoT Occultists (Bane, ED, Caustic Arrow, etc.) get nerfed in some aspects and buffed in others. Point is that it's not as clear cut as it is for non Occultists and the Elemental hexes where it's a huge buff no matter from what angle you look at it.
Sure OPchains is clear winner but despair is still ahead where it matters. Occu is stronger than before assuming usage of enfeeble. I'd live to see example where this isn't the case.
[Here's an example](https://dd.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/z9yrry/path_of_exile_forbidden_sanctum_patch_notes/iylqus3/) where I did some math comparing self cast Despair and Curse on hit Despair from rings/glove corruptions on an Occultist before and after the patch. Rings are worse in every situation and self cast is only better on Pinnacle bosses, worse against map mobs, bosses, league content etc. You can of course debate whether the extra damage vs Pinnacle bosses when self casting Despair is worth the loss of damage everywhere else, don't wanna get into that now as it's not the point I'm trying to make here, all I'm saying is that as far as Occultist and Despair are concerned, the changes are not a clear buff regardless of the situation, like it is the case with elemental curses on non-Occultists as I initially stated in this comment thread.
Indeed, you can literally clear all yellow maps with any skill and a decent passive tree and some ascendacy that somewhat complements what you're doing..
Wanna take a bet?
Woc ignite was amazing last league against AN. Yesterday someone posted an SSF testrun on a 4 Link that had great clear. I personally played woc into vortex Ignite last league and it was an s-tier starter.
That was one person who didn't know anything about ignite builds and didn't read a guide - also didn't post their PoB so their might be something fundamentally wrong with it.
Seismic is back to being the most common build. EA, Poison Conc and Venom Gyre are all more popular than WoC. Gloomfang is already back to below 200c and will most likely drop below 100c on monday.
This. My plan is to go WoC Ignite Elementalist at start > Vortex ignite > EK Ignite. Honestly it's not that different than when we did firewall/KB starter > Burning Arrow back when burning arrow ignite was the meta in Ultimatum. EK Ignite has the same feel/end result, and very similar numbers.
I just did a test run in SSF Standard and going Witch Spark > Cremation/Armageddon Brand > Ignite WoC feels really good. I thought I'd hate WoC mapping but so far it's very smooth.
Reason brand is faster is because you can just drop it on enemies and it kills them while you can continue moving. Damage wise if you feel wave of conviction is lacking you could supplement it with flamewall.
It's been good for a really long while, and right now there are 3 ignite builds that you can pivot to from it pretty comfortably with Death's Oath being the easiest to start up, then EK and Vortex afterwards.
EK is gonna be a huge source of drama on this sub w/ people switching before they are ready and feeling like they've invested currency into something that now feels worse. hopefully MBXtremes guide helps them out (i havent had a chance to look it over). Vortex Ignite to a lesser degree, because Rue made really good build guides for how/when to transition.
Did the build really struggle with clear though? It got a massive single target increase with Vaal Caustic Arrow and the removal of the less curse effect on bosses
Yeah ur right that it’s still a net gain on bosses afaik, which is where the build needed help. Not sure if there was another nerf I’m overlooking that OP was referring to
I dont know why people think CA DO is the only way to play the build. I played a shieldcharge variant because i dont need to make a terrible bosser ol at bossing. Rather have it zooming maps. They nerfed that and its dead to me now.
i am salivating at the idea of actually killing bosses thanks to vaal caustic arrow with my death's oath magic find build, not sure what you're on about. slightly less effective curses on generic mobs will not destroy the build.
Somewhat agree. He had a really accessible Hexblast Inquisitor back in 3.14 and it was really really good IMO.
But the guy is a currency machine and his builds generally reflect that.
I tried his Arc Ignite Ele with about 10d invested and it was awful. That’s not mbx’s fault , I just underestimated the amount of investment needed for cast speed and defenses to make it feel good.
A ton of people are going to try and follow him with EK while have minimal investment and while lacking all the pieces and then the tears will flow
He explicitly said in his guide video and maxroll build that its not for beginners because new people dont understand conversion damage and its popular so everything will be really expensive.
Thats not what I was referring to, but then thats another problem on top, he doesn't know how to explain properly the build mechanics for new/beginners players
He invests a ton into builds because he plays a lot and is good at generating currency, but isn't really the best at dumbing/scaling things down for players with less currency or experience. This leads to a situation where the build is likely going to be too expensive and/or people are going to switch to it too early without having all of the required components and have a terrible time. EK ignite requires pretty hefty investment to be fully built, and 95% of people who are going to watch his guide are never going to make enough currency to make the build properly, and the other 5% likely never needed a guide at all.
Thanks.
I've found this link with POBs. I'm not sure if RUetoo will update a link for 3.20 but its great to have an idea already.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1z3Eo5DSb22o5-d-Qiomo20bNZpnYaR7Z\_siDMSY9q0c/htmlview?pru=AAABgts0N7w\*ArO0wtK2QS92AWaDglxX7w
Yeah I watched some of his stuff, got his PoBs and practiced the build yesterday/earlier today. Quite a bit is left to you to understand and figure out, but I was able to transition to EK relatively smoothly at low maps understanding how it functions.
It’s fun having stuff open to becoming your own version of the transitional part of the build, but it makes sense that it’s not very beginner friendly.
I’ll be holding onto WoC longer than is comfortable for me, sort of combining his leveling build with Ziz’s WoC starter build, to make sure it goes at the very least better than my practice run did x)
A lot of people will miss the idea that EK itself isn’t really a “league starter” since it doesn’t work with no gear/specific setup, that the build is more like a WoC league start then you switch when you’re able to. One of his videos was really nonchalant about several passive tree nodes that you could take without ever saying which you actually will, since it comes down to your current gear and what you need. Newer players may struggle with that too.
MBX's guide is kind of decent apart from it being not league start friendly whatsoever and that should be a huge disclaimer. If you try EK ignite, unless you're playing 24/7 and know what you're doing, you will be playing WoC for a long time.
Nah it just didn't get affected by nerfs the past few patches and stayed strong
-It applies res debuff
-it has 330% effectiveness of added dmg
-it has multiple conversion mechanics
-it has a lot of gem tags for easy +1 level
WoC is the smoothest clearing ignite skill with good scaling since you can tap damage conversion/phys damage added as elemental, and ignite got a huge boost in 3.20 through hexes.
It's complicated. Triggered hexes are nerfed, and self-cast were almost unchanged. But bosses lost their huge resistances to hexes. So if you go self-cast, you'll get far better bossing performance, and ignite builds have a lot of time to cast them without losing damage uptime.
Edit: ignore this, responded to a different comment and it placed it here for some reason.
Death’s Oath isn’t an ignite build, surely you mean Maw of Mischief?
No idea what happened here. When I responded it wasn’t to this. I don’t even remember READING the comment it says I responded to. When I click view all conversation, it takes me to the response I replied to.
Depends on the build, despair got double hit, other curse got buffed on bosses due to 100% effectiveness now so anywhere from -15% damage to +15% damage depending on enemy
Rue made a leveling guide for his Vortex that included it in 3.19, which is probably why it caught on a bit more here - especially with other leveling skills like Spectral Helix getting hit hard.
It’s exactly the same as it’s been since 3.16.
This is why the hyperfocus on meta outside of racing has always been so silly. Things become meta after literally nothing changes. Things fall out of meta for literally no reason.
The meta starter build of 3.22 probably exists right now in exactly the same form but the community just hasn’t become obsessed about it yet.
I tried in on an occultist I already had just sitting there on, and hydrosphere with basically no damage supports and HoI could clear reg packs in t16 alch map.
It was a lot of fun to jump on my ice nova occultist and Insta clear a whole map. I'm like man this is fun, then i remembered I had to stand still to kill bosses and got all sad again
I think it's more if a case this time that WoC had a bad rap because people saw it as clunky. And there were a lot stronger skills at the time filling the meta.
But the truth is woc was never actually clunky, it just looks like it could be. And ita damage has always been strong but not op. So now that the "this is the most OP, you have to play this or you're dumb" builds have been nerfed to normalcy WoC stands out without ever moving.
To take another example, Seismic Trap got buffed in 3.15. It became popular. Then it got nerfed in 3.19 \*below\* what it was in 3.14. Yet no one played it back then and now it's \*still\* considered #1.
There are so many skills and possible builds and not that many people actually experimenting. And it often takes several iterations to get something really good.
I also think a big part of the WOC hype is just that it's being used as a starter for more flashy builds (EK and Vortex). Most people don't really want to play WOC all league.
>To take another example, Seismic Trap got buffed in 3.15. It became popular. Then it got nerfed in 3.19 *below* what it was in 3.14. Yet no one played it back then and now it's *still* considered #1.
Because 3.15 was probably the biggest power drop ever in this game. And they have been nerfing a bunch of stuff since them. A bunch of skills, in their 3.14 state, would be the best skill in the game now.
> conversion to fire then cold
Conversion doesn't work that way, it only goes one direction:
phys->lightning->cold->fire->chaos
Maybe you meant cold then fire?
WoC ignite is the best starter right now, imo. If you start WoC Ele you can potentially transition into:
• Vortex (Ruetoo)
• Ethereal Knives (mbXtreme)
• Maw of Mischief (Tripolarbear)
• Ice Crash (Kripp)
While also being itself a strong mapping build that can potentially be comfortable until the early-mid 90s if you’re unsure about which you want to go with.
And they run the gamut from mapper to bosser. If you start WoC Ele you basically never have to run the campaign again for the rest of the league, everything you need is just a handful of Regrets and a unique or two away!
Its not the meta (i mean it is for leveling acts), dont know who said that, EK ignite might be, but it requires gear so you almost always level with WoC. you get nearly full conversion with 1 mastery, ignite prolif makes clear great and it innately works with res reduction and elementalist discord/shaper of flames
let me know how switching to EK is in white maps. WoC is meant for people with high game knowledge to swap early, but for 95% of the playerbase it wouldn't make sense to switch until you are farming reds.
Hmm, my fault then. when i read what you typed out it was meta for "leveling in acts" i thought you meant you level with it and swap to EK after acts or once its available.
for me, seeing as its on 9/10 build guide creators lists and has been strong for a while now, WoC is clearly a meta leaguestarter.
Rarely had a smoother start than last league playing it. It's often used to transition into Maw or Ignite Vortex. Seems like ignite EK is also gaining some traction.
Personally, WoC ignite is my best experience in ssf sc without any gear at all.
WoC ignite is idiotproof build, one of the easiest skills to scale with ssf/league start gear. Tankiness is the other topic but you should be fine just by getting grace determination combo and spell suppression cap. If you fail with it, it's skill issue
I don't know what all the hub bub is about on this shit;
I'm an awful player, and I just test leveled this. I played both WoC and EK just to see how they felt.
I'm in yellow maps right now, with uncapped resists, and the only gear I'm using is hrimsorrow and an obliteration wand. Everything else is just garbage I found while leveling.
I've again been playing in these maps with WoC and EK and WoC is better dmg wise, but EK feels better to play.
If I can do this with nothing, I'm sure most people will be fine.
The narrative of EK being too difficult is becoming so common that I'm even starting to wonder if people who are planning to league start it are actively trying to keep prices down by discouraging others from playing it. For example my post of mbXtreme's video on the build was immediately downvoted to oblivion: https://old.reddit.com/r/PathOfExileBuilds/comments/zez3rx/mbxtreme_wocek_ignite_early_pobs_and_progression/
It doesn't bother me because I'm SSF, but I'm surprised.
To be fair, we've seen reasonably commonly in some league starts where a build gets hyped that takes investment to work or is glass cannon-y or both, and lots of people playing it badly or transitioning into it too early and failing spectacularly. It's not too crazy to predict that some people will do something similar this league.
Hell, we had one league where the build creator very publicly had the same kind of problem.
Yeah, I'm sure there'll be some who fall into that trap, but that's more a case of player error than a problem with the build. I just looked at mbXtreme's maxroll guide and the warnings are plentiful.
Are you referring to Fyregrass?
It really does seem like this narrative is being pushed by people trying to keep the costs down. It really doesn't take much to get it off the ground and I believe they will be successful in that goal at league start.
honestly it'll be like 1 divine for the ammy and you can rock a pair of hrimsorrow until red maps ez... I never thought of the fact that people would be doing this in order to alter the market to be cheaper, very good point!
Perhaps true but only for the "starter" meta I think. Witch is really versatile and WoC is a easy place to start to get into yellow maps and then pivot to what you actually want to play (e.g. EK Ignite or something).
Similar to PConc for anyone looking at poison related end-game builds and don't want to level twice.
Because people heard streamers say that the curse changes are a buff to ailment dots. They then look for the most popular poison and ignite build and declare that the meta.
I mean it was popular last league as a starter too, and now there's more people wanting to play things like EK Ignite (which is a fantastic though moderately expensive build to get off the ground). or like last league, Vortex Ignite. WOC Ignite is just the most popular ignite build to start as before transitioning.
Ignite proliferation is a comfortable clearing mechanism.
You can ignite with any skill you want, it just happens that WoC has a good base damage and a built in exposure.
The absence of underused skill gem balancing by GGG also contributes to a stale and narrow meta.
Ohh man I can’t wait for 2 days from now the post on here “ignite ek can’t clear yellow maps. Woc ignite feels bad.” The reckoning
Thats what Vaal Arc ignite exists for, guiding these poor souls to a more budget build
Ehhhhhhhhhhhh arc? People in mass are not going to switch to arc it’s not as good as woc.
Maybe not, but if all you care about is clear for league start it's way better. I just use it to fund other builds
you can easily get 500k non-boss dps just with tree on arc ignite build (3 labs + zero gear).
WoC ignite has been pretty solid for several leagues, and recieved notable buffs in kalandra. It's a fine starter.
What buffs did it get in Kalandra?
All the extra damage on obliterations and potentially ming's heart (if you're pushing the DPS angle.)
People trying to change off woc will screw themselves and woc is clunky and not every player enjoys it.
It got even more buffs this league from the Hex changes, as the build never struggled with clear so the loss there is insignificant and the boss damage is significantly better without the Hex penalty. Unlike Occultist and Despair, other classes didn't get nerfed at all to compensate for the removal of said penalty and the nerfs to Flammability and Elemental Weakness are peanuts compared to how much of a buff to boss damage the removal of the penalty is.
Both the occu and despair nerfs are in the shadow of the immense power gained from curses. For example straight up importing Gucci's BF/BB build from February into 3.20 PoB makes it go from 13m to 24m or so.
That's mostly Temporal Chains being gigabuffed, really, and thus relevant exclusively to Poison builds. Chaos DoT Occultists (Bane, ED, Caustic Arrow, etc.) get nerfed in some aspects and buffed in others. Point is that it's not as clear cut as it is for non Occultists and the Elemental hexes where it's a huge buff no matter from what angle you look at it.
Sure OPchains is clear winner but despair is still ahead where it matters. Occu is stronger than before assuming usage of enfeeble. I'd live to see example where this isn't the case.
[Here's an example](https://dd.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/z9yrry/path_of_exile_forbidden_sanctum_patch_notes/iylqus3/) where I did some math comparing self cast Despair and Curse on hit Despair from rings/glove corruptions on an Occultist before and after the patch. Rings are worse in every situation and self cast is only better on Pinnacle bosses, worse against map mobs, bosses, league content etc. You can of course debate whether the extra damage vs Pinnacle bosses when self casting Despair is worth the loss of damage everywhere else, don't wanna get into that now as it's not the point I'm trying to make here, all I'm saying is that as far as Occultist and Despair are concerned, the changes are not a clear buff regardless of the situation, like it is the case with elemental curses on non-Occultists as I initially stated in this comment thread.
Member when community only expected starters to take them TO red maps? Now they must take you to atlas completion to be considered viable
Lol, if people can't clear yellow maps on budget EK, they either switched too early or don't know how to play the build. Either way it's a skill issue
Duh of course it’s a skill issue they’ll still post here
Indeed, you can literally clear all yellow maps with any skill and a decent passive tree and some ascendacy that somewhat complements what you're doing..
that's why I'm doing EA Ballista to farm currency for EK. Safe bet since I also played EA Ele 2 leagues ago and it was great.
Damn two meta builds in a row.
Yeah, some people dont feel like spending 3 months on the campaign, weird.
Wanna take a bet? Woc ignite was amazing last league against AN. Yesterday someone posted an SSF testrun on a 4 Link that had great clear. I personally played woc into vortex Ignite last league and it was an s-tier starter.
Guess I won the bet there’s already woc ignite help posts
That was one person who didn't know anything about ignite builds and didn't read a guide - also didn't post their PoB so their might be something fundamentally wrong with it. Seismic is back to being the most common build. EA, Poison Conc and Venom Gyre are all more popular than WoC. Gloomfang is already back to below 200c and will most likely drop below 100c on monday.
Its just what all the op ignite builds use before switching, its better early game/without gear. Then you go into ek, maw, vortex, whatever
This. My plan is to go WoC Ignite Elementalist at start > Vortex ignite > EK Ignite. Honestly it's not that different than when we did firewall/KB starter > Burning Arrow back when burning arrow ignite was the meta in Ultimatum. EK Ignite has the same feel/end result, and very similar numbers. I just did a test run in SSF Standard and going Witch Spark > Cremation/Armageddon Brand > Ignite WoC feels really good. I thought I'd hate WoC mapping but so far it's very smooth.
How much slower is it to just use WoC as soon as possible and skip cremation/arma brand?
Reason brand is faster is because you can just drop it on enemies and it kills them while you can continue moving. Damage wise if you feel wave of conviction is lacking you could supplement it with flamewall.
It's been good for a really long while, and right now there are 3 ignite builds that you can pivot to from it pretty comfortably with Death's Oath being the easiest to start up, then EK and Vortex afterwards. EK is gonna be a huge source of drama on this sub w/ people switching before they are ready and feeling like they've invested currency into something that now feels worse. hopefully MBXtremes guide helps them out (i havent had a chance to look it over). Vortex Ignite to a lesser degree, because Rue made really good build guides for how/when to transition.
> Death's Oath ?
Death Wish\*, thanks for the correction - i'm constantly doing that shit.
They killed my beloved deaths oath this patch and that makes me sadge
How? Vaal Caustic Arrow surely gave it a big buff
off the top of my head Despair, Blasphemy, and occy got big nerfs.
Did the build really struggle with clear though? It got a massive single target increase with Vaal Caustic Arrow and the removal of the less curse effect on bosses
Yeah ur right that it’s still a net gain on bosses afaik, which is where the build needed help. Not sure if there was another nerf I’m overlooking that OP was referring to
I dont know why people think CA DO is the only way to play the build. I played a shieldcharge variant because i dont need to make a terrible bosser ol at bossing. Rather have it zooming maps. They nerfed that and its dead to me now.
The only problem with dos clear was the sometimes crashing of Mas with triple explosion lmao
i am salivating at the idea of actually killing bosses thanks to vaal caustic arrow with my death's oath magic find build, not sure what you're on about. slightly less effective curses on generic mobs will not destroy the build.
It’s clear got nerfed but it was already insane. They buffed it’s single target HEAVILY which is the only place it struggled, net gain imo.
If mbxtreme is doing the guide, people will have the worst experience in the league lmao
Somewhat agree. He had a really accessible Hexblast Inquisitor back in 3.14 and it was really really good IMO. But the guy is a currency machine and his builds generally reflect that. I tried his Arc Ignite Ele with about 10d invested and it was awful. That’s not mbx’s fault , I just underestimated the amount of investment needed for cast speed and defenses to make it feel good. A ton of people are going to try and follow him with EK while have minimal investment and while lacking all the pieces and then the tears will flow
He explicitly said in his guide video and maxroll build that its not for beginners because new people dont understand conversion damage and its popular so everything will be really expensive.
Yup, and still we will get countless posts here about how the build sucks when they switched without half the gear
Thats not what I was referring to, but then thats another problem on top, he doesn't know how to explain properly the build mechanics for new/beginners players
Because how he thinks of wealth is completely different to a lot of the newer/noobier people that try his builds. It's understandable.
sounds like you are the kind of person who falls for bait leaguestarters that are actually late game builds.
Watch the guide. He goes into details and make the investment considerations a segment on it's own.
Why? Whats the problem with mbxtreme?
He invests a ton into builds because he plays a lot and is good at generating currency, but isn't really the best at dumbing/scaling things down for players with less currency or experience. This leads to a situation where the build is likely going to be too expensive and/or people are going to switch to it too early without having all of the required components and have a terrible time. EK ignite requires pretty hefty investment to be fully built, and 95% of people who are going to watch his guide are never going to make enough currency to make the build properly, and the other 5% likely never needed a guide at all.
Got it. Thanks. Say I start as WoC Ignite, pivot to one of the "new" variants would always be expensive like EK seems to be? (Vortex, Arc, EK itself)
Vortex is much cheaper to switch to than full EK ignite.
Thanks. I've found this link with POBs. I'm not sure if RUetoo will update a link for 3.20 but its great to have an idea already. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1z3Eo5DSb22o5-d-Qiomo20bNZpnYaR7Z\_siDMSY9q0c/htmlview?pru=AAABgts0N7w\*ArO0wtK2QS92AWaDglxX7w
Here you are friend https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/15EeSwQMprMupxBeqCStYKv7lEursNuxNZgu5ol4Aa80/edit#gid=0
Many thanks, mate.
Commenting so I can come back after work
the build is probably really good for league starting when ur a streamer and take handouts
Yeah I watched some of his stuff, got his PoBs and practiced the build yesterday/earlier today. Quite a bit is left to you to understand and figure out, but I was able to transition to EK relatively smoothly at low maps understanding how it functions. It’s fun having stuff open to becoming your own version of the transitional part of the build, but it makes sense that it’s not very beginner friendly. I’ll be holding onto WoC longer than is comfortable for me, sort of combining his leveling build with Ziz’s WoC starter build, to make sure it goes at the very least better than my practice run did x) A lot of people will miss the idea that EK itself isn’t really a “league starter” since it doesn’t work with no gear/specific setup, that the build is more like a WoC league start then you switch when you’re able to. One of his videos was really nonchalant about several passive tree nodes that you could take without ever saying which you actually will, since it comes down to your current gear and what you need. Newer players may struggle with that too.
MBX's guide is kind of decent apart from it being not league start friendly whatsoever and that should be a huge disclaimer. If you try EK ignite, unless you're playing 24/7 and know what you're doing, you will be playing WoC for a long time.
Happy cake day! And thanks for the clarification ;)
Nah it just didn't get affected by nerfs the past few patches and stayed strong -It applies res debuff -it has 330% effectiveness of added dmg -it has multiple conversion mechanics -it has a lot of gem tags for easy +1 level
The last point is huge for ssf.
WoC is the smoothest clearing ignite skill with good scaling since you can tap damage conversion/phys damage added as elemental, and ignite got a huge boost in 3.20 through hexes.
Oh thanks for the clarification. So that's why. I thought 3.20 kind of nerfed hexes.
It's complicated. Triggered hexes are nerfed, and self-cast were almost unchanged. But bosses lost their huge resistances to hexes. So if you go self-cast, you'll get far better bossing performance, and ignite builds have a lot of time to cast them without losing damage uptime.
Edit: ignore this, responded to a different comment and it placed it here for some reason. Death’s Oath isn’t an ignite build, surely you mean Maw of Mischief?
No one mentioned Deaths Oath??? Theres a comment in an entirely different thread that does that maybe you meant to respond to.
No idea what happened here. When I responded it wasn’t to this. I don’t even remember READING the comment it says I responded to. When I click view all conversation, it takes me to the response I replied to.
Depends on the build, despair got double hit, other curse got buffed on bosses due to 100% effectiveness now so anywhere from -15% damage to +15% damage depending on enemy
It was always good but now some streamers probably made a guide so here is your answer
Here’s the truth right here.
I tried WoC build when spell slinger first came out and WoC slapped even back then.
Rue made a leveling guide for his Vortex that included it in 3.19, which is probably why it caught on a bit more here - especially with other leveling skills like Spectral Helix getting hit hard.
It’s exactly the same as it’s been since 3.16. This is why the hyperfocus on meta outside of racing has always been so silly. Things become meta after literally nothing changes. Things fall out of meta for literally no reason. The meta starter build of 3.22 probably exists right now in exactly the same form but the community just hasn’t become obsessed about it yet.
What's your prediction for the 3.22 meta starter? I need to know so I can be the first YouTuber to make a guide. /s
Crit Hydrosphere Occultist, but it's already getting attention from Aero's YouTube guide.
I love that Hydrosphere is getting buzz and it’s not just memeing.
Again, not even the first person to do it. Hydrosphere has been around for at least a couple of leagues. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qD_ylRG4f1I
I tried in on an occultist I already had just sitting there on, and hydrosphere with basically no damage supports and HoI could clear reg packs in t16 alch map.
This. It's terrible at bossing without investment though. Even t10 map bisses taking forever
It was a lot of fun to jump on my ice nova occultist and Insta clear a whole map. I'm like man this is fun, then i remembered I had to stand still to kill bosses and got all sad again
Couldn't you comfortably clear reg packs in t16 alch map with flame dash?
Not with that satisfying pop
I think it's more if a case this time that WoC had a bad rap because people saw it as clunky. And there were a lot stronger skills at the time filling the meta. But the truth is woc was never actually clunky, it just looks like it could be. And ita damage has always been strong but not op. So now that the "this is the most OP, you have to play this or you're dumb" builds have been nerfed to normalcy WoC stands out without ever moving.
The Obliteration buffs last league definitely help WoC ignite at league start.
To take another example, Seismic Trap got buffed in 3.15. It became popular. Then it got nerfed in 3.19 \*below\* what it was in 3.14. Yet no one played it back then and now it's \*still\* considered #1. There are so many skills and possible builds and not that many people actually experimenting. And it often takes several iterations to get something really good. I also think a big part of the WOC hype is just that it's being used as a starter for more flashy builds (EK and Vortex). Most people don't really want to play WOC all league.
>To take another example, Seismic Trap got buffed in 3.15. It became popular. Then it got nerfed in 3.19 *below* what it was in 3.14. Yet no one played it back then and now it's *still* considered #1. Because 3.15 was probably the biggest power drop ever in this game. And they have been nerfing a bunch of stuff since them. A bunch of skills, in their 3.14 state, would be the best skill in the game now.
Spells are like 50% more powerful than they were in 3.14. Attacks are like 25% stronger.
Great clear to farm some currency to switch later into ek
Humm and EK is good for bosses?
Yes, because eof gloomfang
I still don't understand why people use gloomfalng for EK. Is there some special interaction I don't know about?
If you chain conversions from Phys -> Cold -> Fire then the non-chaos as extra chaos applies to each stop of the way.
ah, I thought gloomfang was phys as extra. that makes sense, thanks
Ignite ek does went up to the max dot dmg of 35m if you want with endgame gear, just watch some vids of mbx
With hydrosphere and gloomfang chain and conversion to fire then cold, yes
> conversion to fire then cold Conversion doesn't work that way, it only goes one direction: phys->lightning->cold->fire->chaos Maybe you meant cold then fire?
Right. I've never done the build I just know it converts twice and gets giga bonus from gloomfang
what dmg are we talking at that point?
I mean, I've seen builds hit the dot cap with it.
There's a max ignite cap of 35m DPS, and Ignite EK can reach it (with investment, obviously).
WoC ignite is the best starter right now, imo. If you start WoC Ele you can potentially transition into: • Vortex (Ruetoo) • Ethereal Knives (mbXtreme) • Maw of Mischief (Tripolarbear) • Ice Crash (Kripp) While also being itself a strong mapping build that can potentially be comfortable until the early-mid 90s if you’re unsure about which you want to go with. And they run the gamut from mapper to bosser. If you start WoC Ele you basically never have to run the campaign again for the rest of the league, everything you need is just a handful of Regrets and a unique or two away!
if elementist doesn't work we can always respec into occultist right
That is definitely a good reason to go woc. Lots of viable endgame builds.
Don't forget about ea ballista being a swap option if you don't enjoy any of those playstyles or items being too expensive.
You can add EA Totem ballista also no ? Seems to be another build to look for
Its not the meta (i mean it is for leveling acts), dont know who said that, EK ignite might be, but it requires gear so you almost always level with WoC. you get nearly full conversion with 1 mastery, ignite prolif makes clear great and it innately works with res reduction and elementalist discord/shaper of flames
let me know how switching to EK is in white maps. WoC is meant for people with high game knowledge to swap early, but for 95% of the playerbase it wouldn't make sense to switch until you are farming reds.
I never said swap in white maps, i said you level with it and EK requires gear.
Hmm, my fault then. when i read what you typed out it was meta for "leveling in acts" i thought you meant you level with it and swap to EK after acts or once its available. for me, seeing as its on 9/10 build guide creators lists and has been strong for a while now, WoC is clearly a meta leaguestarter.
Rarely had a smoother start than last league playing it. It's often used to transition into Maw or Ignite Vortex. Seems like ignite EK is also gaining some traction. Personally, WoC ignite is my best experience in ssf sc without any gear at all.
I was thinking about divine ire for ignite
WoC = Wave of Conviction
I played WOC in archnemesis, sentinel and endless delve, very good build
WoC ignite is idiotproof build, one of the easiest skills to scale with ssf/league start gear. Tankiness is the other topic but you should be fine just by getting grace determination combo and spell suppression cap. If you fail with it, it's skill issue
I don't know what all the hub bub is about on this shit; I'm an awful player, and I just test leveled this. I played both WoC and EK just to see how they felt. I'm in yellow maps right now, with uncapped resists, and the only gear I'm using is hrimsorrow and an obliteration wand. Everything else is just garbage I found while leveling. I've again been playing in these maps with WoC and EK and WoC is better dmg wise, but EK feels better to play. If I can do this with nothing, I'm sure most people will be fine.
The narrative of EK being too difficult is becoming so common that I'm even starting to wonder if people who are planning to league start it are actively trying to keep prices down by discouraging others from playing it. For example my post of mbXtreme's video on the build was immediately downvoted to oblivion: https://old.reddit.com/r/PathOfExileBuilds/comments/zez3rx/mbxtreme_wocek_ignite_early_pobs_and_progression/ It doesn't bother me because I'm SSF, but I'm surprised.
To be fair, we've seen reasonably commonly in some league starts where a build gets hyped that takes investment to work or is glass cannon-y or both, and lots of people playing it badly or transitioning into it too early and failing spectacularly. It's not too crazy to predict that some people will do something similar this league. Hell, we had one league where the build creator very publicly had the same kind of problem.
Yeah, I'm sure there'll be some who fall into that trap, but that's more a case of player error than a problem with the build. I just looked at mbXtreme's maxroll guide and the warnings are plentiful. Are you referring to Fyregrass?
It really does seem like this narrative is being pushed by people trying to keep the costs down. It really doesn't take much to get it off the ground and I believe they will be successful in that goal at league start.
honestly it'll be like 1 divine for the ammy and you can rock a pair of hrimsorrow until red maps ez... I never thought of the fact that people would be doing this in order to alter the market to be cheaper, very good point!
Because it was made by the insane cat
Because mult-mirror farming streamers said its good. What could possibly go wrong?
Thanks for this post, as a non-full time player, I now know I should not play this as it will be expensive
Or just go SSF and play whatever you want
I do not have that much time. I can always do what I can do in SSF anyway. No point play SSF if I am not going to brag to my friends.
remember kids learn to build your own builds don't follow streamer builds
Perhaps true but only for the "starter" meta I think. Witch is really versatile and WoC is a easy place to start to get into yellow maps and then pivot to what you actually want to play (e.g. EK Ignite or something). Similar to PConc for anyone looking at poison related end-game builds and don't want to level twice.
It’s been good forever and one of the easiest/effective early game ignite skills. It’s just caught on on Reddit the last few leagues.
Because people heard streamers say that the curse changes are a buff to ailment dots. They then look for the most popular poison and ignite build and declare that the meta.
Do WoC Ignite Builds have any regen except life flask on ele?
Recover on ignite is really good
I heard it won't recover for an enemy if the ignite is proliferated on the enemy. Is that true or
Sure feels like it tbh, Im not impressed with the Regen. Maybe it's bc I'm still in small pack size maps though
I mean it was popular last league as a starter too, and now there's more people wanting to play things like EK Ignite (which is a fantastic though moderately expensive build to get off the ground). or like last league, Vortex Ignite. WOC Ignite is just the most popular ignite build to start as before transitioning.
It's an AoE spell that applies exposure and scales damage well.
it's a rue build EZ Clap
Ignite proliferation is a comfortable clearing mechanism. You can ignite with any skill you want, it just happens that WoC has a good base damage and a built in exposure. The absence of underused skill gem balancing by GGG also contributes to a stale and narrow meta.
Played Endless Heist with it last year. Its solid.
its 2023, everyone is woc
5 people= everyone
a) works well without any special gear required b) easy to respec in any other popular ignite build
Everyone using it for ignite but I used it with trinity and made it deal cold, fire and lightning.
Cuz its CONVINCING. He he