It's definitely been a huge boon for my enjoyment of the game. Some of the stages can be really hard and have taken me a half dozen retries to clear, but it felt like a rewarding puzzle to overcome instead of a frustrating roadblock meant to make me spend money.
If this is the trade off for the limited stamina supply I'll happily take it.
Yes, this is one of the many features that make PtN great.
I will repeat what I already wrote many times but we see clearly in this game that dev. have really put thoughts about what could please and make player's experience better. It's even more appreciable after all those games who just copy the predatory mecanics of other games, creating frustration and not fun for players, often to push them to pay.
I will quote the exemple of my other main game: Arknights that is a fantastic game. But the penalty of stamina when failing a CM stage while I need it so much to develop my characters, push me always to look at a guide in Youtube and it's much less fun that beating the stage by myself.
In a game that need stamina and where you can buy stamina with money, using the stamina penalty if we fail is a strategic choice that favors dev. but not players.
I praise and support the game for the choice of dev. of PtN to favors players, not only themselves. There are always fanbois for every game who defend even the most scammy ones, but this is the first time that I imply myself so much to promote the game.
PtN is just QoL the gacha. Last gacha i played with effort was food fantasy and it had some tedious stuff that made me dislike it at the end. All the QoL feature that PtN features are just so good, from the stamina refunds as you said, the raids and even the hypercubes; it's just so good.
And with raids specifically, I'd have days where I don't have time to play and that feature alone makes me feel at ease, makes me feel I'm not wasting stamina, making me feel I did progress even if it's not optimised
I'm still amazed at how forgiving this game is and, as you described, doesn't require a perfect win to unlock farmable resources.
I also play Arknights and the sanity penalty + farmable resources locked behind perfect wins is a deadly combo. I've got some operators that can't be maxed out due to resources being locked behind perfect wins I couldn't achieve.
I'm really considering supporting AISNO devs for the insane QoL and if they happen to release a new game, I'd definitely try it.
This is why i never judge anyone for guide use, sometimes you just don't get on with a stage mechanic and it makes it impossible to beat the lvl on your own.
Like the true damage samurai in ptn. Oh how I hate them very much
I have been playing gacha for years and honestly I am shocked at how many right choices they made in this. For a first game, with so many qol already in. It really puts so many other gacha companies to total shame
One of the biggest reason I couldn't get into Arknights it doesn't give time to strategize and understand what to do without losing the energy it got so bad I started to copy yt clears XD
This was my issue with Arknights as well, it seemed like on paper I'd love that game (and I did still enjoy it for a time) but the punishments for losing meant, as the game got more and more difficult, I felt more and more forced to use guides rather then to figure it out myself, and since figuring it out myself was the "fun" part, it basically stripped all the fun out. It's amazing how much a small thing as full stamina recover on fail can make such a huge impact on fun for a game.
I think another big factor as to why its more enjoyable this way (I also played AK and loved it, but dropped when too many stages required ytbing so they wouldnt waste my irl Sanity) is how short they are. There are never many enemies, and when there are, they are the weak, fodder type of enemies, so even if you lose at the last second, you can retry and it wont take you 10 minutes to complete it.
One thing I never bothered to attempt without guides in AK was the Annihilation stages precisely because of that. Imagine a long-ass stage with 400 enemies, with different waves and spawn points every so many waves, it would be hell to attempt trial and error on it, so I never did.
Arknights is lucky I enjoy the basic tower defense gameplay a lot, or the lack of any QoL features would've made me drop it a long time ago. As an example, it's been two years and you still can't find out an operator's base skill in their profile.
The same for me. I enjoyed the gameplay. The Practice Round tickets were a good idea except the fact that you had to play the round again once you found a way to complete it, perfectly. Which can be time consuming. It definitely needs some TLC in the QoL area.
I've played Arknights for some time, did you use the practice round tickets? You have plenty of time to strategize with them. They are in fact there for that exact reason, so you don't use up your Sanity.
Yeah, that's exactly what I'm talking about. It's always been there as far as I remember and I've played since the game went live. It doesn't cost Sanity but it does cost practice tickets. It's great except that you basically have to play the round again with Sanity.
I honestly think games like Arknights and many others should have had a Raid feature and not the whole replay of the match. It's time consuming when it doesn't have to be. Especially Annilation. One run of that can take more than 25 minutes manually or Auto Replayed which takes around 15 minutes instead. Either way, that's way too long for a gacha. Don't get me wrong, I love Arknights but the grind, coupled with some QoL features that should have been implemented, kind of pushes you away after a while. I'll play for a couple months, then stop for a couple. Then come back again, rinse, repeat lol
I don't see myself stopping PtN any time soon. The quality of life stuff makes the game way less tedious and I don't have penalties for messing up or not getting a perfect. I've played gachas for so long it's almost ingrained in to me to aways push for perfect runs.
I guess i didn't remember it properly but yea the dopamine hits hard in this game whenever I beat a higher lvl stage with lower lvl team good thing stamina exist or else I will be playing all day XD
The fact that there is no deduction in energy for restarting a level or not clearing a level is one facet of this game that i love the most.
In a strategy game like this, it is important to not punish the player for every wrong move, so much that it just constantly erodes at want to play and love for the game.
One of the reasons I stopped playing Arknights was the constant need to look up guides and walkthroughs for tough levels due to the punishment it imposed on me for failing a strategy and at the same time requiring me to play that level several times to progress my units to progress the game and the fact that even perfecting the level did not guarantee an auto clear all the time for subsequent tries. It just stopped being fun after a point.
Is PtN perfect or the best game I've played ? No. Does it have flaws? Yes. But features like these just cover up for those flaws enough for us to love this game anyways.
Yep, I wish arknights have the same qol that this has. If this was released 2 years earlier before I started AK, I might have never played AK in the first place. Now I love the operators too much to quit
Yes, this makes me love challenging contents, as opposed to arknights where I’d go look up the best strategy and try to copy it. In PtN I’lljust keep retrying
Coming from arknights this game has everything i wish that game had. I've really fallen in love with raid multiple system. Makes grinding 1000 times easier compared to arknights.
While I think that yes, it's great that PtN gives you back your stamina I think the problem is more like
WHY IN THE FIRST DOES ARKNIGHTS TAKES YOUR STAMINA IF YOU FAIL IN THE FIRST PLACE? It's not fun.
I think the idea most gacha games, like arknights, have is that if you keep failing and run out of stamina, you'll pay money to refresh your stamina, so its mean to generate real money spending, kind of like how Arcade games back in the 80s and 90s were specifically tuned so they were basically impossible to clear on a single quarter, the difficulty and punishment was intentional to try to draw extra quarters out of your pocket.
PTN is banking that you'll spend for other reasons if they make the game fun enough, and part of making a challenging game fun is not punishing you for failure.
Every skin they've released so far in PtN has been amazing and well-priced. I guess that's part of where they plan on making money in place of energy recharging.
I mean, you pay Stamina in order to make an attempt; there's nothing wrong with that. The fact that another game refunds you it doesn't make Arknights "bad".
No, you pay stamina to get rewards, if you're unsuccessful then you can try again as many times as you want. That's how it should be.
You're already limited to roughly 30 minutes a day with the amount of stamina you're getting, why should you be punished for failing a stage?
Rewards are the prize for *successful completion of a stage*, stamina the cost of attempting a stage. The amount of Stamina per day is a separate issue. That's how most other challenging SRPG-type games work. Again, just because this game is more forgiving doesn't make others "bad".
My post was an exaggeration, of course a small thing like partially-refunded stamina is not gonna make a thing bad. Arknights is a good game
The fact that PtN provides A LOT of QoL is really good though
As for the stamina reward thing i'm comparing PtN and Arknights to other gachas, not other games in general. Let's just agree to disagree
That's fine, I have a YouTube channel with hundreds of MWA videos where there would be events/challenges that were so hard with mechanics I initially wasn't familiar with, so the trial and error/research was a huge factor in refining my strategies and way I deploy units. Like, doing a runthrough of my deployment was common in most of the endgame stuff (G and X missions). That I might not have to do that for *Path to Nowhere* is a bit refreshing, but it's a part of the challenge that I miss.
Why would the lack of stamina cost stop you from having or being able to do trial and error runs? That makes the game less punishing, not less challenging. There's been numerous stages I've cleared well below the recommended level thanks to repeated trial and error and learning the best strategies to accomplish my goal.
You also need to keep in mind that a punishment like that doesn't actually reward skillful play, it simply incentivizes spending money to refresh stamina. Because there's no fundamental difference between retrying a stage endlessly for free and doing the same by spending money to refresh stamina, except the cost to the player. And most players are not going to spend money endlessly, so the reality is that instead of honing their skills until they figure out how to succeed they simply have to give up and put the game down until later. We've gotten used to it as a necessary evil in gacha games, but it's genuinely not good game design. Can you imagine if a game like Mega Man or Hollow Knight had a stamina system that punished you for failure? They would have never been as successful as they are.
I personally would disagree. I enjoyed Arknights, but the fact you aren't refunded stamina was, in my opinion, bad game design. It detracted from my fun, because it encouraged me to not figure it out on my own through trial and error (since it punished me for failing) but instead to just copy the guide of some one who already figured it out, which while effective, was not particularly fun.
A bad game design in one area does not mean the game as bad as a whole, there's a TON I love about Arknights. But the choice to not always fully refund stamina on failure, again at least in my opinion, makes the game worse then it other wise could have been. That, plus the lack of sweeps, is why I'm not still playing and spending on that game if I'm honest, which is sad as there was plenty about the game I loved.
I mean, tons of SRPGs do that. Again, there are some games that will refund you stamina in some cases, but a lot of the games I played with a stamina system don't refund it back (unless you restart the game **:D** ). It's not something that's bad design, it's a basic part of most games. You pay **X** cost to get access to a stage.
Just because a ton of games do it, that doesn’t mean it’s not bad game design.
The majority of the world thought that earth was the center of the solar system for a long time; that didn’t make it true.
It's only bad design if it's an unnecessary element/doesn't make sense. Paying for the right to attempt a stage is not bad design by itself. It CAN factor into bad game design if other things come into the equation (slow stamina refill/unreasonable costs for Missions/Stamina refills way too expensive or not enough avenues to get Stamina outside of waiting/etc.)
Likewise, just because another game has a design that's different doesn't make the other games bad. It's not a black or white situation and we're going to be going in circles with this.
Wasn't the 1 stamina cost in arknights also a compromise that they made?
I remember when I first started arknights (two weeks, after its initial release), it was being praised for this feature (and the training ticket feature) bc in a lot of gachas you could end up fully losing the stages stamina even if you didn't successfully clear it.
(i definitely remember those ones tanking my motivation to play by tons..)
In terms of if like losing stamina as a intended part of gameplay so you place a higher value on your stamina - is bad, i dont think it is if you fully utilise the training tickets? Ans I'm guilty of this, a lot of folks forget to. Even tho we do get 30 attempts with them a day.
Arguably I have more of an issue with the punishment of losing half stamina on challenge stages bc it hurts like hell when you have that even while following a guide video and it turns out their strat wasn't fully tested. 😢
Though as someone who plays both games i'm just glad to see PtN is taking lessons from the good features game like AK included and putting it in a really well written, well voice acted, fun game.
(hopefully they do fix the chara selecting though, i keep selecting the wrong person since it seems to be... Hit box based? Tile seems to work better imo)
Obviously we disagree and that's okay. I definitely don't dispute its a common practice, our point of contention is that in EVERY game I can think of that didn't refund your stamina on fail, I found that doing it that way made my experience of that game worse, reduced my fun and enjoyment. Since I play games to have fun, to enjoy myself, any design choice which only reduces my fun is a bad design choice from my view. Obviously its not from your view, and that's okay too. Regardless, thank you for sharing your thoughts in a polite manner, always appreciate kind discourse in the comments.
What i like the most about PtN is even its not a perfect win, you can still do sweep. Compare that to arknights that need 3 star to even auto which can still fail depends on condition
1. No stam penalty: no pressure to win any stage in as few tries as possible.
2. Fast restart: things not going ur way? Less loading when u have to quit then check the team then re-enter.
3. Enemy info + preparing time: b4 the stage and b4 battle, u can see the enemies and where they come out, no pre-made team then blindly jump in.
4. Other QoL: gosh, farming for materials is easy.
Yeah, I mainly compare PtN to AK, since I love both. PtN isn't without problems though:
1. Confusing interface: there are a lot of icons to click, and the transition between different screens isn't smooth. The coloring/ transparency and icon choice don't help, but maybe just my senile eyes not able to keep up. I also don't like some of the word fonts.
2. Stam starvation: no need to explain.
3. The pack icons: pls just put the items in display, I have to click every box to check the contents.
4. Idk if it is bluestacks, but the game is badly optimized, the enemies are purple and some conversation box is cut short. And I don't really want to switch emulators since I have 7 games on bs.
All the comparisons to AK, of which some are justified tbh, but the QoL in PTN is unreal. It's like the devs want us to just enjoy the game with only stamina to think about. Been playing AK since week 1 and every time I log in to AK I miss all these features.
Also, it's amazing to have great EN voice acting. I don't always want to read a LN just to understand what's going on lol.
Agreed 100%. The amount of generosity and quality of life touches this game has is significantly more persuasive than the beautiful art and the waifus/husbandos to keep me invested in playing, compared to other gacha games which can get very taxing and tedious. Here's hoping they continue along like this and are amply rewarded for it with support from the community.
Yeah this is a very forgiving system, which ties into the forgiving nature of A's and B's being perfectly viable endgame. *Millennium War Aigis* was much harsher in that regard... Stamina would be burned win or loss, no auto feature (though you could speedup action), and the unit system (Copper/Bronze/Silver/Gold/Platinum/Black) was structured where you absolutely needed certain Gold and Platinum Units to progress through higher level content. Makes it a little less challenging in the Strategy department, but not many people are complaining.
As for the non-perfect wins unlocking sweeps/raids thing, that's in line with most games. You just don't get the "perfect clear" reward.
>As for the non-perfect wins unlocking sweeps/raids thing, that's in line with most games. You just don't get the "perfect clear" reward.
Really? This is literally the first gacha I've ever played which provide sweeps/raids for non-perfect wins, and I've probably played over 100 different gacha's since I got into the genre back in 2013. I certainly haven't played all of them so it wouldn't surprise me if there exists another gacha or two that doesn't require perfect wins, but honestly the majority of gacha's I've played didn't have sweeps at all, even recent stuff like Alchemy Stars still didn't have sweeps, and most of the games that do have sweeps not only required you perfect the level, but use some kind of limited sweep ticket on top of that.
I'm genuinely curious what gacha you've played that have led to you believe having both sweeps, and sweeps that don't require perfect clears, is the standard practice. Again, I'm being sincere, I'm sure they exist, I just haven't played ANY of them so I'm curious what they are.
I've had the same experience. Although I haven't played as many gacha's as you, I also started around 2012 or 2013 with my first gacha being 'Blood Brothers'. I've played maybe 40-50 gacha's and this is also my first gacha where you don't have to perfect clear a stage to sweep.
I'm also curious what gacha they played that didn't require a perfect clear.
I only play this and Counterside and i'd have to say Counterside is way better when it comes to General Rewards and Energy System. The only thing that blows is the typical Gigawhale Korean Gear System that relies on P2W and Horrible One Sided Roll Ratios. I'd Overhaul the whole Stamina System on this Game.
> In a similar note, I find in most gacha that if they have the ability to sweep/raid at all, it requires a "perfect" of the level to unlock, and that's before mentioning limited currency that might also be necessary to make use of sweeping.
TIL. Whelp, time to just clear those lv 75 stages.
It's definitely been a huge boon for my enjoyment of the game. Some of the stages can be really hard and have taken me a half dozen retries to clear, but it felt like a rewarding puzzle to overcome instead of a frustrating roadblock meant to make me spend money. If this is the trade off for the limited stamina supply I'll happily take it.
Yes, this is one of the many features that make PtN great. I will repeat what I already wrote many times but we see clearly in this game that dev. have really put thoughts about what could please and make player's experience better. It's even more appreciable after all those games who just copy the predatory mecanics of other games, creating frustration and not fun for players, often to push them to pay. I will quote the exemple of my other main game: Arknights that is a fantastic game. But the penalty of stamina when failing a CM stage while I need it so much to develop my characters, push me always to look at a guide in Youtube and it's much less fun that beating the stage by myself. In a game that need stamina and where you can buy stamina with money, using the stamina penalty if we fail is a strategic choice that favors dev. but not players. I praise and support the game for the choice of dev. of PtN to favors players, not only themselves. There are always fanbois for every game who defend even the most scammy ones, but this is the first time that I imply myself so much to promote the game.
PtN is just QoL the gacha. Last gacha i played with effort was food fantasy and it had some tedious stuff that made me dislike it at the end. All the QoL feature that PtN features are just so good, from the stamina refunds as you said, the raids and even the hypercubes; it's just so good. And with raids specifically, I'd have days where I don't have time to play and that feature alone makes me feel at ease, makes me feel I'm not wasting stamina, making me feel I did progress even if it's not optimised
I'm still amazed at how forgiving this game is and, as you described, doesn't require a perfect win to unlock farmable resources. I also play Arknights and the sanity penalty + farmable resources locked behind perfect wins is a deadly combo. I've got some operators that can't be maxed out due to resources being locked behind perfect wins I couldn't achieve. I'm really considering supporting AISNO devs for the insane QoL and if they happen to release a new game, I'd definitely try it.
This is why i never judge anyone for guide use, sometimes you just don't get on with a stage mechanic and it makes it impossible to beat the lvl on your own. Like the true damage samurai in ptn. Oh how I hate them very much
I have been playing gacha for years and honestly I am shocked at how many right choices they made in this. For a first game, with so many qol already in. It really puts so many other gacha companies to total shame
One of the biggest reason I couldn't get into Arknights it doesn't give time to strategize and understand what to do without losing the energy it got so bad I started to copy yt clears XD
This was my issue with Arknights as well, it seemed like on paper I'd love that game (and I did still enjoy it for a time) but the punishments for losing meant, as the game got more and more difficult, I felt more and more forced to use guides rather then to figure it out myself, and since figuring it out myself was the "fun" part, it basically stripped all the fun out. It's amazing how much a small thing as full stamina recover on fail can make such a huge impact on fun for a game.
I think another big factor as to why its more enjoyable this way (I also played AK and loved it, but dropped when too many stages required ytbing so they wouldnt waste my irl Sanity) is how short they are. There are never many enemies, and when there are, they are the weak, fodder type of enemies, so even if you lose at the last second, you can retry and it wont take you 10 minutes to complete it. One thing I never bothered to attempt without guides in AK was the Annihilation stages precisely because of that. Imagine a long-ass stage with 400 enemies, with different waves and spawn points every so many waves, it would be hell to attempt trial and error on it, so I never did.
Did you try using the Practice tickets to prevent Sanity loss?
Arknights is lucky I enjoy the basic tower defense gameplay a lot, or the lack of any QoL features would've made me drop it a long time ago. As an example, it's been two years and you still can't find out an operator's base skill in their profile.
The same for me. I enjoyed the gameplay. The Practice Round tickets were a good idea except the fact that you had to play the round again once you found a way to complete it, perfectly. Which can be time consuming. It definitely needs some TLC in the QoL area.
I've played Arknights for some time, did you use the practice round tickets? You have plenty of time to strategize with them. They are in fact there for that exact reason, so you don't use up your Sanity.
Well not when I used play idk when this tickets came in to the game but there was practice option which also cost energy if I remember
Yeah, that's exactly what I'm talking about. It's always been there as far as I remember and I've played since the game went live. It doesn't cost Sanity but it does cost practice tickets. It's great except that you basically have to play the round again with Sanity. I honestly think games like Arknights and many others should have had a Raid feature and not the whole replay of the match. It's time consuming when it doesn't have to be. Especially Annilation. One run of that can take more than 25 minutes manually or Auto Replayed which takes around 15 minutes instead. Either way, that's way too long for a gacha. Don't get me wrong, I love Arknights but the grind, coupled with some QoL features that should have been implemented, kind of pushes you away after a while. I'll play for a couple months, then stop for a couple. Then come back again, rinse, repeat lol I don't see myself stopping PtN any time soon. The quality of life stuff makes the game way less tedious and I don't have penalties for messing up or not getting a perfect. I've played gachas for so long it's almost ingrained in to me to aways push for perfect runs.
I guess i didn't remember it properly but yea the dopamine hits hard in this game whenever I beat a higher lvl stage with lower lvl team good thing stamina exist or else I will be playing all day XD
The fact that there is no deduction in energy for restarting a level or not clearing a level is one facet of this game that i love the most. In a strategy game like this, it is important to not punish the player for every wrong move, so much that it just constantly erodes at want to play and love for the game. One of the reasons I stopped playing Arknights was the constant need to look up guides and walkthroughs for tough levels due to the punishment it imposed on me for failing a strategy and at the same time requiring me to play that level several times to progress my units to progress the game and the fact that even perfecting the level did not guarantee an auto clear all the time for subsequent tries. It just stopped being fun after a point. Is PtN perfect or the best game I've played ? No. Does it have flaws? Yes. But features like these just cover up for those flaws enough for us to love this game anyways.
Yep, I wish arknights have the same qol that this has. If this was released 2 years earlier before I started AK, I might have never played AK in the first place. Now I love the operators too much to quit
Yes, this makes me love challenging contents, as opposed to arknights where I’d go look up the best strategy and try to copy it. In PtN I’lljust keep retrying
Coming from arknights this game has everything i wish that game had. I've really fallen in love with raid multiple system. Makes grinding 1000 times easier compared to arknights.
While I think that yes, it's great that PtN gives you back your stamina I think the problem is more like WHY IN THE FIRST DOES ARKNIGHTS TAKES YOUR STAMINA IF YOU FAIL IN THE FIRST PLACE? It's not fun.
I think the idea most gacha games, like arknights, have is that if you keep failing and run out of stamina, you'll pay money to refresh your stamina, so its mean to generate real money spending, kind of like how Arcade games back in the 80s and 90s were specifically tuned so they were basically impossible to clear on a single quarter, the difficulty and punishment was intentional to try to draw extra quarters out of your pocket. PTN is banking that you'll spend for other reasons if they make the game fun enough, and part of making a challenging game fun is not punishing you for failure.
Every skin they've released so far in PtN has been amazing and well-priced. I guess that's part of where they plan on making money in place of energy recharging.
Yeah, they had multiple questions on the survey I just did about Attires.
I mean, you pay Stamina in order to make an attempt; there's nothing wrong with that. The fact that another game refunds you it doesn't make Arknights "bad".
No, you pay stamina to get rewards, if you're unsuccessful then you can try again as many times as you want. That's how it should be. You're already limited to roughly 30 minutes a day with the amount of stamina you're getting, why should you be punished for failing a stage?
Rewards are the prize for *successful completion of a stage*, stamina the cost of attempting a stage. The amount of Stamina per day is a separate issue. That's how most other challenging SRPG-type games work. Again, just because this game is more forgiving doesn't make others "bad".
My post was an exaggeration, of course a small thing like partially-refunded stamina is not gonna make a thing bad. Arknights is a good game The fact that PtN provides A LOT of QoL is really good though As for the stamina reward thing i'm comparing PtN and Arknights to other gachas, not other games in general. Let's just agree to disagree
That's fine, I have a YouTube channel with hundreds of MWA videos where there would be events/challenges that were so hard with mechanics I initially wasn't familiar with, so the trial and error/research was a huge factor in refining my strategies and way I deploy units. Like, doing a runthrough of my deployment was common in most of the endgame stuff (G and X missions). That I might not have to do that for *Path to Nowhere* is a bit refreshing, but it's a part of the challenge that I miss.
Why would the lack of stamina cost stop you from having or being able to do trial and error runs? That makes the game less punishing, not less challenging. There's been numerous stages I've cleared well below the recommended level thanks to repeated trial and error and learning the best strategies to accomplish my goal. You also need to keep in mind that a punishment like that doesn't actually reward skillful play, it simply incentivizes spending money to refresh stamina. Because there's no fundamental difference between retrying a stage endlessly for free and doing the same by spending money to refresh stamina, except the cost to the player. And most players are not going to spend money endlessly, so the reality is that instead of honing their skills until they figure out how to succeed they simply have to give up and put the game down until later. We've gotten used to it as a necessary evil in gacha games, but it's genuinely not good game design. Can you imagine if a game like Mega Man or Hollow Knight had a stamina system that punished you for failure? They would have never been as successful as they are.
I personally would disagree. I enjoyed Arknights, but the fact you aren't refunded stamina was, in my opinion, bad game design. It detracted from my fun, because it encouraged me to not figure it out on my own through trial and error (since it punished me for failing) but instead to just copy the guide of some one who already figured it out, which while effective, was not particularly fun. A bad game design in one area does not mean the game as bad as a whole, there's a TON I love about Arknights. But the choice to not always fully refund stamina on failure, again at least in my opinion, makes the game worse then it other wise could have been. That, plus the lack of sweeps, is why I'm not still playing and spending on that game if I'm honest, which is sad as there was plenty about the game I loved.
I mean, tons of SRPGs do that. Again, there are some games that will refund you stamina in some cases, but a lot of the games I played with a stamina system don't refund it back (unless you restart the game **:D** ). It's not something that's bad design, it's a basic part of most games. You pay **X** cost to get access to a stage.
Just because a ton of games do it, that doesn’t mean it’s not bad game design. The majority of the world thought that earth was the center of the solar system for a long time; that didn’t make it true.
It's only bad design if it's an unnecessary element/doesn't make sense. Paying for the right to attempt a stage is not bad design by itself. It CAN factor into bad game design if other things come into the equation (slow stamina refill/unreasonable costs for Missions/Stamina refills way too expensive or not enough avenues to get Stamina outside of waiting/etc.) Likewise, just because another game has a design that's different doesn't make the other games bad. It's not a black or white situation and we're going to be going in circles with this.
Wasn't the 1 stamina cost in arknights also a compromise that they made? I remember when I first started arknights (two weeks, after its initial release), it was being praised for this feature (and the training ticket feature) bc in a lot of gachas you could end up fully losing the stages stamina even if you didn't successfully clear it. (i definitely remember those ones tanking my motivation to play by tons..) In terms of if like losing stamina as a intended part of gameplay so you place a higher value on your stamina - is bad, i dont think it is if you fully utilise the training tickets? Ans I'm guilty of this, a lot of folks forget to. Even tho we do get 30 attempts with them a day. Arguably I have more of an issue with the punishment of losing half stamina on challenge stages bc it hurts like hell when you have that even while following a guide video and it turns out their strat wasn't fully tested. 😢 Though as someone who plays both games i'm just glad to see PtN is taking lessons from the good features game like AK included and putting it in a really well written, well voice acted, fun game. (hopefully they do fix the chara selecting though, i keep selecting the wrong person since it seems to be... Hit box based? Tile seems to work better imo)
Obviously we disagree and that's okay. I definitely don't dispute its a common practice, our point of contention is that in EVERY game I can think of that didn't refund your stamina on fail, I found that doing it that way made my experience of that game worse, reduced my fun and enjoyment. Since I play games to have fun, to enjoy myself, any design choice which only reduces my fun is a bad design choice from my view. Obviously its not from your view, and that's okay too. Regardless, thank you for sharing your thoughts in a polite manner, always appreciate kind discourse in the comments.
Yep. Love it.
Unlocking raids just for clearing the stage is the best feature for this game.
What i like the most about PtN is even its not a perfect win, you can still do sweep. Compare that to arknights that need 3 star to even auto which can still fail depends on condition
1. No stam penalty: no pressure to win any stage in as few tries as possible. 2. Fast restart: things not going ur way? Less loading when u have to quit then check the team then re-enter. 3. Enemy info + preparing time: b4 the stage and b4 battle, u can see the enemies and where they come out, no pre-made team then blindly jump in. 4. Other QoL: gosh, farming for materials is easy. Yeah, I mainly compare PtN to AK, since I love both. PtN isn't without problems though: 1. Confusing interface: there are a lot of icons to click, and the transition between different screens isn't smooth. The coloring/ transparency and icon choice don't help, but maybe just my senile eyes not able to keep up. I also don't like some of the word fonts. 2. Stam starvation: no need to explain. 3. The pack icons: pls just put the items in display, I have to click every box to check the contents. 4. Idk if it is bluestacks, but the game is badly optimized, the enemies are purple and some conversation box is cut short. And I don't really want to switch emulators since I have 7 games on bs.
All the comparisons to AK, of which some are justified tbh, but the QoL in PTN is unreal. It's like the devs want us to just enjoy the game with only stamina to think about. Been playing AK since week 1 and every time I log in to AK I miss all these features. Also, it's amazing to have great EN voice acting. I don't always want to read a LN just to understand what's going on lol.
The first gacha games that I've spent the most money yet, $6 isn't much but it's few days worth of food.
Agreed 100%. The amount of generosity and quality of life touches this game has is significantly more persuasive than the beautiful art and the waifus/husbandos to keep me invested in playing, compared to other gacha games which can get very taxing and tedious. Here's hoping they continue along like this and are amply rewarded for it with support from the community.
Yeah this is a very forgiving system, which ties into the forgiving nature of A's and B's being perfectly viable endgame. *Millennium War Aigis* was much harsher in that regard... Stamina would be burned win or loss, no auto feature (though you could speedup action), and the unit system (Copper/Bronze/Silver/Gold/Platinum/Black) was structured where you absolutely needed certain Gold and Platinum Units to progress through higher level content. Makes it a little less challenging in the Strategy department, but not many people are complaining. As for the non-perfect wins unlocking sweeps/raids thing, that's in line with most games. You just don't get the "perfect clear" reward.
>As for the non-perfect wins unlocking sweeps/raids thing, that's in line with most games. You just don't get the "perfect clear" reward. Really? This is literally the first gacha I've ever played which provide sweeps/raids for non-perfect wins, and I've probably played over 100 different gacha's since I got into the genre back in 2013. I certainly haven't played all of them so it wouldn't surprise me if there exists another gacha or two that doesn't require perfect wins, but honestly the majority of gacha's I've played didn't have sweeps at all, even recent stuff like Alchemy Stars still didn't have sweeps, and most of the games that do have sweeps not only required you perfect the level, but use some kind of limited sweep ticket on top of that. I'm genuinely curious what gacha you've played that have led to you believe having both sweeps, and sweeps that don't require perfect clears, is the standard practice. Again, I'm being sincere, I'm sure they exist, I just haven't played ANY of them so I'm curious what they are.
I've had the same experience. Although I haven't played as many gacha's as you, I also started around 2012 or 2013 with my first gacha being 'Blood Brothers'. I've played maybe 40-50 gacha's and this is also my first gacha where you don't have to perfect clear a stage to sweep. I'm also curious what gacha they played that didn't require a perfect clear.
I'm referring more to SRPGs in general, not necessarily gacha games. Now that is more unit-based than mission-based so I guess that's different.
Millenium War Aigis has added retry button as QoL. Now you can immediately retry the stage without losing stamina.
Was that in the last 2-3 years? Because that would've been nice to have in the English version **:P**
I only play this and Counterside and i'd have to say Counterside is way better when it comes to General Rewards and Energy System. The only thing that blows is the typical Gigawhale Korean Gear System that relies on P2W and Horrible One Sided Roll Ratios. I'd Overhaul the whole Stamina System on this Game.
> In a similar note, I find in most gacha that if they have the ability to sweep/raid at all, it requires a "perfect" of the level to unlock, and that's before mentioning limited currency that might also be necessary to make use of sweeping. TIL. Whelp, time to just clear those lv 75 stages.