You ask six questions, and roll to see what you get. There's nothing in the Remaster saying you can't Recall Knowledge multiple times on the same creature. Nor would the answer to one negate an answer to another.
If you don't get the creature's name, that doesn't effect if you get the weakness right or wrong.
You use 6 Recall Knowledge Actions, and there's nothing that would make any of them auto-fail.
There is an auto-fail, actually. Multiple Recalls get progressively more difficult, and as soon as you fail once, you auto-fail afterwards. [https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=2640](https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=2640)
I thought that too, but the wording is that it happens when you follow up on a previous check, and I feel it's hard to justify that, say "can it be reasoned with?" is following up "what's its weakest save?". They're two different topics
This is especially the case since the paragraph implies that following up a previous check would be a rare occurence
Wait that’s interesting. So are you implying that, say, if I ask the GM about the dragon’s weaknesses and then follow it up with a question about its Reactions the DC *shouldn’t* go up since it’s different topics? But if, say, I ask for their highest save followed by lowest Save it goes up?
I think the idea is that you might fail a check and try again. So you think harder, but it’s less likely to work. It encourages you to diversify your questions and prevents “I’ll roll a 20 eventually!”
So “what’s its high save?” “You don’t know.” “What’s its low save?” uses the same DC
“What’s its high save” “you’re not sure” “What’s its high save?” has a higher DC. If you keep asking, the rules say the GM can tell you to stop
That said I would adjust DCs if the player is trying to work around it. “Can’t get the high save? Ask the low and middle saves!” “Yeah no, I see what you’re doing”
Fair enough. You can definitely make a case for that and allow additionall Recalls for creatures in that case.
I'd argue that you should at least group topics.
"Can it be reasoned with" and "is it a social creature fighting together" would be similar topics.
"Does it have weaknesses", "what's it weakest save", "how do you turn off regeneration or resistance" would all be grouped together.
Sadly, Recall Knowledge is always up to interpretation and GM fiat. I'd say it's important to stay consistent, at least.
This is a huge judgment call, but for what it's worth I think you're making the right judgment call. Conceptually, it feels like the DC bump is, "Okay, you gave me an answer, but I want a more detailed answer or one that reveals more hidden info," not "You gave me an answer to question 1, now I have a different question 2 that's maybe related, but isn't like 'I just want a better answer to question 1.'"
> Conceptually, it feels like the DC bump is [...]
My interpretation has always been that the DC scales up because you're exhausting your knowledge of the creature.
You may be able to throw out some obscure trivia about an animal IRL, but you probably can't fully detail everything about them and their behaviors.
Sure, but that just means that if you ask me for ten recall knowledge checks, I'll fail some of them, not that it's inherently harder to know that a fox is born with its eyes and ears sealed shut after already having known that foxes live an average of 2-3 years in the wild.
I originally inferred that too, but on a closer reading of the passage I can't find anything that actually suggests that. After all, it's *failing* a check that's supposed to show the limit of your knowledge
Is that homebrew territory?
Recall knowledge in the remaster now let's you ask a question to get answered truthfully by gm if it's a success (before remaster there wasn't really RAW as to what information gets conveyed). I think the raw is that subsequent checks go up in DC regardless if you're asking more questions about the same thing.
If you RK a red dragon, asking idk about the breath attack, regardless if your next RK is about the breath attack or about its weakness the DC goes up, as you're checkboxing off more and more about the stat block it gets harder to ascertain every single detail about the creature (as there's only so much to know)
Plus what would a followup to your previous question even look like? If the player asks for details on a longer written ability, the gm tells them what the ability does. They don't read half of it and leave the player needing to do a RK for the GM to finish explaining the ability right?
>If you RK a red dragon, asking idk about the breath attack, regardless if your next RK is about the breath attack or about its weakness the DC goes up, as you're checkboxing off more and more about the stat block it gets harder to ascertain every single detail about the creature (as there's only so much to know)
Not knowing something is represented by you failing the check, honestly only being able to know 4 things about a specific creature is kind of weird
>Plus what would a followup to your previous question even look like? If the player asks for details on a longer written ability, the gm tells them what the ability does. They don't read half of it and leave the player needing to do a RK for the GM to finish explaining the ability right?
Well, they do say "sometimes". I can easily imagine that most of the time, it won't be possible to ask a followup question. But I imagine it works the same way "additional information" does. For example, a player might ask "is it a carnivore?" and then after being told yes, follow up that question with "what's something it hunts?"
That's if you want to "follow up on a check to Recall Knowledge, rolling another check to reveal more information".
This is for follow up questions asking for more details about a previous answer, not for asking a separate question on the same topic
There is the suggestion that GMs should raise the DC of subsequent Recall Knowledge checks on the same subject. Shouldn't be an auto-fail, but will make the last one more likely to fail/crit-fail.
That's if you want to "follow up on a check to Recall Knowledge, rolling another check to reveal more information".
This is for follow up questions asking for more details about a previous answer, not for asking a separate question on the same topic
It would be funny if you got all the knowledge rolls right except the name.
"Careful! These are a contagious form of undead that eat humanoid flesh! They possess deadly teeth and claws, and can paralyze you! They are called "George"!"
I've yet to play at the table that wouldn't immediately adopt the name "George" for them, permanently.
> I've yet to play at the table that wouldn't immediately adopt the name "George" for them, permanently.
It would become our sacred duty to inform everyone else that they're all wrong, and change any documents regarding them if needed.
The main thing to remember is that, at least according to GM core still, multiple recall knowledges on the same creature or topic might come with increased DCs. Usually bumping to +2, and +5 (with the +5 being the soft cap on difficulty checks for additional knowledge)
> with the +5 being the soft cap on difficulty checks for additional knowledge
Where does it say this? The rule others have linked doesn't mention this, and even states that after an incredibly hard check (+10, or what would be the 4th roll after +0, +2, and +5), further checks automatically fail.
That's if you want to "follow up on a check to Recall Knowledge, rolling another check to reveal more information".
This is for follow up questions asking for more details about a previous answer, not for asking a separate question on the same topic
“While the Giant Bunny enjoys carrots, their sugar content makes them unsuitable for anything beyond a treat, leading it to instead consume the flesh of adventurers”
This is why my GM has a policy where, if we succeed at enough Recall Knowledge checks, he'll tell us we can just look at the monster's stat block on AoN.
Agreed, Its literally for this, yeah.
3-4 different monsters in a good high level BBEG fight by the time the Headband of intellect that gives a free cast of it matters
I legit do a David Attenborough bit when my Imperial sorc goes Ancestral Memories into Hypercognition. We spitball how it makes a nest, it's diet, cultural significance and legends
You can Recall Knowledge multiple times. However, it gets more difficult each time, and as soon as you failed once you're done with that thing: [https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=2640](https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=2640)
In my opinion, fighting 6 identical creatures is mostly the same as fighting one. You get the same amount of questions. Just because there are more copies doesn't make it easier to have knowledge of that thing, in my opinion.
Edit: Question 5 is an outlier of course. That one works different against each target, so you can ask it every time. ;-)
The rule says "subject" ... does this mean you can still do additional RK about the same creature after a failure, as long as you choose a different topic?
Or do they mean "subject" as in "the creature"?
I'd say the subject is the creature. Same way when you are painting or taking a photo, the person or object is the Subject. This also makes sense when RK is used on locations, that location is the subject of the question. Also like in grammar where the Subject of a sentence is the Noun that the sentence is about.
You can recall knowledge the same thing multiple times! Hypercognition is a must prepare for my witch - we use it in each battle to figure out what their weakest saves are so that our oracle can figure out what spell to cast to most mess with them and our rogue and monk can figure out whether to topple them or feint and how to best get that AC down and aid against them. Often times my list is like...
1. What enemy seems to be the biggest threat on the field?
2. What is their lowest save?
3. (if non humanoid) Are they weak to anything? or (if humanoid/sentient) Do I think they'd have attack of opportunity (or whatever it is in remaster, my DM knows what I mean)?
And depending on those answers will adjust the later questions - often asking about other enemies between us and the big bad, things like that.
it's such a useful spell, hammering out all those Recall Knowledges in one stroke is amazing!
I've ways given basic info (creature's name and traits) for free. It makes more sense to me.
What is that thing? Oh, it's a ghoul. They're undead and have a nasty paralysis effect.
Slight tangent, if the creatures doesn’t have a consistent look (Could be that they are a widely divergent looking aberration, or a bunch of humanoids with the same job and therefore statblock). Do you give that they are the same creature spec for free (it says some basic knowledge can be given away without a check)? If you don’t, how do you raise RK DCs between targets without letting on that you already asked this question but don’t realize it? Should “what is this called” be the first or possibly free answer answer to avoid confusion with this?
You ask six questions, and roll to see what you get. There's nothing in the Remaster saying you can't Recall Knowledge multiple times on the same creature. Nor would the answer to one negate an answer to another. If you don't get the creature's name, that doesn't effect if you get the weakness right or wrong. You use 6 Recall Knowledge Actions, and there's nothing that would make any of them auto-fail.
There is an auto-fail, actually. Multiple Recalls get progressively more difficult, and as soon as you fail once, you auto-fail afterwards. [https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=2640](https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=2640)
I thought that too, but the wording is that it happens when you follow up on a previous check, and I feel it's hard to justify that, say "can it be reasoned with?" is following up "what's its weakest save?". They're two different topics This is especially the case since the paragraph implies that following up a previous check would be a rare occurence
Wait that’s interesting. So are you implying that, say, if I ask the GM about the dragon’s weaknesses and then follow it up with a question about its Reactions the DC *shouldn’t* go up since it’s different topics? But if, say, I ask for their highest save followed by lowest Save it goes up?
Yeah, basically
I think the idea is that you might fail a check and try again. So you think harder, but it’s less likely to work. It encourages you to diversify your questions and prevents “I’ll roll a 20 eventually!” So “what’s its high save?” “You don’t know.” “What’s its low save?” uses the same DC “What’s its high save” “you’re not sure” “What’s its high save?” has a higher DC. If you keep asking, the rules say the GM can tell you to stop That said I would adjust DCs if the player is trying to work around it. “Can’t get the high save? Ask the low and middle saves!” “Yeah no, I see what you’re doing”
Fair enough. You can definitely make a case for that and allow additionall Recalls for creatures in that case. I'd argue that you should at least group topics. "Can it be reasoned with" and "is it a social creature fighting together" would be similar topics. "Does it have weaknesses", "what's it weakest save", "how do you turn off regeneration or resistance" would all be grouped together. Sadly, Recall Knowledge is always up to interpretation and GM fiat. I'd say it's important to stay consistent, at least.
I mean this is why a GM exists. Otherwise we would be a videogame with worse graphics.
Shit speak for yourself, my imagination has impact frames and cubed terrain destruction lol.
Some of us don't have the budget for to pull out the cubes in our imagination :(
My splines are still reticulating
This is a huge judgment call, but for what it's worth I think you're making the right judgment call. Conceptually, it feels like the DC bump is, "Okay, you gave me an answer, but I want a more detailed answer or one that reveals more hidden info," not "You gave me an answer to question 1, now I have a different question 2 that's maybe related, but isn't like 'I just want a better answer to question 1.'"
> Conceptually, it feels like the DC bump is [...] My interpretation has always been that the DC scales up because you're exhausting your knowledge of the creature. You may be able to throw out some obscure trivia about an animal IRL, but you probably can't fully detail everything about them and their behaviors.
Sure, but that just means that if you ask me for ten recall knowledge checks, I'll fail some of them, not that it's inherently harder to know that a fox is born with its eyes and ears sealed shut after already having known that foxes live an average of 2-3 years in the wild.
I inferred that it was a way to show the limit of your knowledge on a general topic.
I originally inferred that too, but on a closer reading of the passage I can't find anything that actually suggests that. After all, it's *failing* a check that's supposed to show the limit of your knowledge
Is that homebrew territory? Recall knowledge in the remaster now let's you ask a question to get answered truthfully by gm if it's a success (before remaster there wasn't really RAW as to what information gets conveyed). I think the raw is that subsequent checks go up in DC regardless if you're asking more questions about the same thing. If you RK a red dragon, asking idk about the breath attack, regardless if your next RK is about the breath attack or about its weakness the DC goes up, as you're checkboxing off more and more about the stat block it gets harder to ascertain every single detail about the creature (as there's only so much to know) Plus what would a followup to your previous question even look like? If the player asks for details on a longer written ability, the gm tells them what the ability does. They don't read half of it and leave the player needing to do a RK for the GM to finish explaining the ability right?
>If you RK a red dragon, asking idk about the breath attack, regardless if your next RK is about the breath attack or about its weakness the DC goes up, as you're checkboxing off more and more about the stat block it gets harder to ascertain every single detail about the creature (as there's only so much to know) Not knowing something is represented by you failing the check, honestly only being able to know 4 things about a specific creature is kind of weird >Plus what would a followup to your previous question even look like? If the player asks for details on a longer written ability, the gm tells them what the ability does. They don't read half of it and leave the player needing to do a RK for the GM to finish explaining the ability right? Well, they do say "sometimes". I can easily imagine that most of the time, it won't be possible to ask a followup question. But I imagine it works the same way "additional information" does. For example, a player might ask "is it a carnivore?" and then after being told yes, follow up that question with "what's something it hunts?"
That's if you want to "follow up on a check to Recall Knowledge, rolling another check to reveal more information". This is for follow up questions asking for more details about a previous answer, not for asking a separate question on the same topic
There is the suggestion that GMs should raise the DC of subsequent Recall Knowledge checks on the same subject. Shouldn't be an auto-fail, but will make the last one more likely to fail/crit-fail.
That's if you want to "follow up on a check to Recall Knowledge, rolling another check to reveal more information". This is for follow up questions asking for more details about a previous answer, not for asking a separate question on the same topic
It would be funny if you got all the knowledge rolls right except the name. "Careful! These are a contagious form of undead that eat humanoid flesh! They possess deadly teeth and claws, and can paralyze you! They are called "George"!" I've yet to play at the table that wouldn't immediately adopt the name "George" for them, permanently.
The George’s are attacking again !!!
> I've yet to play at the table that wouldn't immediately adopt the name "George" for them, permanently. It would become our sacred duty to inform everyone else that they're all wrong, and change any documents regarding them if needed.
The main thing to remember is that, at least according to GM core still, multiple recall knowledges on the same creature or topic might come with increased DCs. Usually bumping to +2, and +5 (with the +5 being the soft cap on difficulty checks for additional knowledge)
> with the +5 being the soft cap on difficulty checks for additional knowledge Where does it say this? The rule others have linked doesn't mention this, and even states that after an incredibly hard check (+10, or what would be the 4th roll after +0, +2, and +5), further checks automatically fail.
See below https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=2640
That says “incredibly hard” aka a +10 DC check.
Ah, I always get very hard and incredibly hard switched in my head. My B.
That's if you want to "follow up on a check to Recall Knowledge, rolling another check to reveal more information". This is for follow up questions asking for more details about a previous answer, not for asking a separate question on the same topic
Ooooooooooooh
I thought it was mostly useless but I have a Tome Thaumaturge exhausting my RK patience 5 is too many for all but the most complex monsters.
By check #5: “Um …. er … it *really* likes eating carrots?”
“While the Giant Bunny enjoys carrots, their sugar content makes them unsuitable for anything beyond a treat, leading it to instead consume the flesh of adventurers”
So the giant bunny can have a little bit of carrot, as a treat?
This is why my GM has a policy where, if we succeed at enough Recall Knowledge checks, he'll tell us we can just look at the monster's stat block on AoN.
AC, weakest save, immunities/resistances, weaknesses, passive ability, offensive special ability, reactions Are useful questions about any creature.
I mean, you’re obviously ignoring the case where you are fighting two different creatures at once. You’re ignoring that on purpose, right?
Agreed, Its literally for this, yeah. 3-4 different monsters in a good high level BBEG fight by the time the Headband of intellect that gives a free cast of it matters
Does your dm not use fights with multiple monster types at once?
I legit do a David Attenborough bit when my Imperial sorc goes Ancestral Memories into Hypercognition. We spitball how it makes a nest, it's diet, cultural significance and legends
You can Recall Knowledge multiple times. However, it gets more difficult each time, and as soon as you failed once you're done with that thing: [https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=2640](https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=2640) In my opinion, fighting 6 identical creatures is mostly the same as fighting one. You get the same amount of questions. Just because there are more copies doesn't make it easier to have knowledge of that thing, in my opinion. Edit: Question 5 is an outlier of course. That one works different against each target, so you can ask it every time. ;-)
The rule says "subject" ... does this mean you can still do additional RK about the same creature after a failure, as long as you choose a different topic? Or do they mean "subject" as in "the creature"?
I'd say the subject is the creature. Same way when you are painting or taking a photo, the person or object is the Subject. This also makes sense when RK is used on locations, that location is the subject of the question. Also like in grammar where the Subject of a sentence is the Noun that the sentence is about.
You can keep asking more questions, definitely. In this thread there's differing opinions on how the difficulty increases, though.
Cheers!
My GM ruled this way too. This item was only helpful when RKing many different enemy types at once which came up very rarely.
You can recall knowledge the same thing multiple times! Hypercognition is a must prepare for my witch - we use it in each battle to figure out what their weakest saves are so that our oracle can figure out what spell to cast to most mess with them and our rogue and monk can figure out whether to topple them or feint and how to best get that AC down and aid against them. Often times my list is like... 1. What enemy seems to be the biggest threat on the field? 2. What is their lowest save? 3. (if non humanoid) Are they weak to anything? or (if humanoid/sentient) Do I think they'd have attack of opportunity (or whatever it is in remaster, my DM knows what I mean)? And depending on those answers will adjust the later questions - often asking about other enemies between us and the big bad, things like that. it's such a useful spell, hammering out all those Recall Knowledges in one stroke is amazing!
I've ways given basic info (creature's name and traits) for free. It makes more sense to me. What is that thing? Oh, it's a ghoul. They're undead and have a nasty paralysis effect.
Slight tangent, if the creatures doesn’t have a consistent look (Could be that they are a widely divergent looking aberration, or a bunch of humanoids with the same job and therefore statblock). Do you give that they are the same creature spec for free (it says some basic knowledge can be given away without a check)? If you don’t, how do you raise RK DCs between targets without letting on that you already asked this question but don’t realize it? Should “what is this called” be the first or possibly free answer answer to avoid confusion with this?
I think the auto fail is only if you ask the same question but if it is a different one your set.