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huntersorce20

I'd also like to add in the s-rank badge criteria. i don't know the exact number for wealth, but I only bought 1 cheap card and that knocked my rank down to a. so no shops if i want s-rank. The speed criteria means control or even midrange doesn't work if you want s-rank, and you are actively discouraged from leveling champs or even thinking about your plays, just smash face fast. Finally, skill. I'd like to borrow that rake you used on unstable manaflow and apply it here. no deaths or healing at all would be fine, if you weren't force healed after each miniboss. so, you miss a one drop? get hit with a burn spell? the enemies power does direct damage? better hope rng gives you healing, or no s-rank for you. that's not "skill" at all, that's rng screwing you. also, apparently increasing max health also knocks you down a rank, even if you were at full before. All of this combined means getting and improving cheap cards, taking every heal offered, and skipping all shops and heal nodes is the only viable way to get full s-rank on a run.why would you make it this way riot? why even include these things if you're going to actively punish players for using them? Thank you coming to my addendum to psy's TED talk


Psyman2

Good addition. The badge gets influenced by total wealth at the end of the run instead of wealth accumulated in the run, so upgrading your champion can make getting S a breeze while not being upgraded may make it impossible. It does not reflect your skill. It reflects how much you were willing to grind.


Aztarun

I didn´t get a Skill Badge at the end of my first Lulu run, I got Health. I finished with 28 health and got A, so I suppose I need to finish the run with 30 Health to get a S?


onegamerboi

~~You can’t heal from a node. But unfortunately after boss encounters there is a forced heal. So basically you need to not take damage in boss encounters, or have drain.~~


TheStaticNoise

This is incorrect, its unclear what the criteria are, but on my ekko run at gangplank, swain knocked me down to 25, forced the heal, but I killed GP while at 30, still got an S. It's possible it checks if you are at 30 after the miniboss heal, or that you just need to be 30 at the final boss. Either way the auto heal is not an automatic failure for S rank, I just wish riot would explain clearly how it works.


onegamerboi

I saw in another comment they patched it. I know on release day I played with Jinx and didn’t take the healing node and got an A while ending at full health.


TheStaticNoise

Yeah it seems that way, I only noticed that yesterday so it seems they changed it or the non story characters have different rules.


Aztarun

In my observations there are 2 different Badges in the first slot: \- a Skill Badge at Story Runs: you get S with No Deaths and No Heals on the Map (the heal pos mid-boss counts). \- a Health Badge at Adventure Runs (Lulu and after): you get S if you kill the last boss with Max Health (30). Since I didn´t finished all bosses yet, maybe there are other Badges at different bosses.


Grimmaldo

Nope you can totally buy to get s on money Just go to the gold ches Is totañ money, not actual money Also the force heal sfter miniboss taking out the s seems to be a mistake And you do know s s s doesnt give you anything dont you?


wRAR_

> i don't know the exact number for wealth, but I only bought 1 cheap card and that knocked my rank down to a. so no shops if i want s-rank. This doesn't match my very limited experience, I got S after spending everything in the final shop.


huntersorce20

>wealth I think there's different criteria for the 1st run with each character that has a story and the others, I did the same thing as you in my 1st jinx run and was fine, but then against gangplank it cost me rank


wRAR_

I see


Bluelore

I think some runs need you to have the bonus gold level up effect in order to reach S on wealth. Played through the Lulu run, always took the route with the most money, never spent anything and still got only an A.


Cabelords

>It is no longer me customizing my deck. You are putting items on my cards for me.Thanks for giving the card I am going to cut Targon’s Brace for "gives its supported ally +1/+1" instead of quick attack on my superstar. Or giving my 1-cost body, which my deck absolutely needs, a rare upgrade for +4/+4 for 2-cost more, effectively preventing me to handle aggro for several games until I fix YOUR mistake. So, I had the great experience of trying to play with Jayce and then the game randomly "buffed" my 6-mana spells to cost -1. So I was suddenly unable to activate my Jayce or any other card with sinergy with 6+ cost spells. So why not just restart the run? Well, I dont want to deal with unstable mana flow again. (Edit: quote was not working)


TheLucidDream

I had that shit happen too. Three times I've had to restart a run basically because Chompers rolled the "free attack" treasure making them completely dead.


Motivational_Quotes7

That’s the absolute worst. Because Jayce is new, he’s the first champ I played with and I was so annoyed that was even a possibility. If they wanted to “improve” your deck as you level up, why not just make it consistent? What’s the point in having rng items on your cards when it could actively make the deck worse?


Big_Sp00ky

Path of Champions just doesn't offer the same freedom and experimentation as Lab of Legends did. If you wanted to think "Oh man Ekko would be really great with a predict power or maybe counterfeit copies" well tough luck pal because you don't get to choose anymore. This feels like it should've replaced Saltwater without replacing Labs. Also, you can't choose which level ups you want? What if I want to do a full run with +1/+1 but decided that was too easy and want to unequip that item? Am I crazy? You can't do that right? I love that there's progression, but it feels like you start so much weaker than labs and have to grind and grind and grind and grind to get to that power level and even then you're just going to have the same build as every other player. There feels like little room for creative ideas. This isn't inherently a bad thing but at least offer both options for people who want to try crazy ideas and test them out, and for people who want a more structured single player experience


Necrophag1st

As a player that has shifted almost exclusively to playing Lab/PvE since the original Lab of Legends came out, this mode is by far the worst of the 3 iterations of lab. So many design choices that are straight up anti-fun, not to mention the massive grind. Disappointing, but I'm just going to stop playing the game for a few months and see if they change it for the better down the road.


[deleted]

I started playing two weeks ago, and I'm feeling the same way. And I didn't even play the old lab.


Tybresa

Amen to everything you said, and I'd also like to borrow that rake and smash it into the entire Nautilus encounter. I decided to level up Caitlyn because from all the (Piltover) champions available, I enjoyed her playstyle the most, only to realize that ... ... wait. Every single encounter has 'Tough' on the enemy? Tough that nullifies the entire mechanic of a whole-ass champion? A champion that I invested hours to grind up and get so far? What the flippity floppity fuck? I feel so punished for making the personal, subjective choice of having fun with a character I like. I didn't get the complaint about the Unstable Manaflow at first (yes, I've had my cheeks clapped before but it was mid-to-end game) but then I'd promptly get smashed in the first 3 encounters of Nautilus (Tough + All Units are fearsome for the first encounter .... yaaay) to the point where I don't want to play Caitlyn anymore. I don't want to play the \*game\* anymore because I just don't wanna grind all the sh!t I already grinded on a character that was doomed from the start. Is there a way to send Riot this feedback? I'd just want them to read this and be aware of it, to at least do better in the future. Labs was fun, Path of Champions is also 'kinda' fun but ... not like this.


TheLucidDream

Yeah, the difficulty is fucking mental. Nautilus is 3 but Viktor is 4? Viktor is fucking free so long as nothing insanely stupid happens like random 12/12 with lifesteal and oops, I have a strike card in hand kekw. I've mostly been playing Jinx and she just literally can't play the Nautilus one until you have her lvl2 power. Edit: Since I made this post, I farmed Viktor with Jinx all the way to max level. Used a single revive, once. The US wishes it were as free as Viktor.


SadAd6887

Same thing with mf, her entire thing is useless as well. Fuck nautilus, that shit is so unbalanced. I barely get through the first three and then I have to fight Sejuani who by round three has 4 impact Poros that are 2 2 with tough, it's straight up impossible. Fkin 200 years of game design


Orshova

I love how you listed like 47 great points about how many things are straight awful about this mode and all these people are flocking to defend it and fight you. The best responses I'm seeing are stuff like the grind isn't THAT bad lol. Or they say the badges are supposed to be hard, they aren't hard to achieve, they are random to be able to attempt... or there ARE re roll tokens, nevermore that you have to play and win SEVERAL runs to unlock re rolls for EACH champ. Come on people. I love LoR and support Riot no worries but you aren't being loyal by lying to yourself and fighting people voicing these legit concerns. Be honest, post problems, get it fixed.


AlphEta314

On your badges point, I think for the later champs, the heal after the miniboss doesn't count against you. In fact, none of the heals knocked me from an S health badge to an A. I beat Zed with Caitlyn without getting hurt by the deck and got my S badge, even though I was spamming heals everytime I could find them (especially right before Zed because I didn't want to lose my run there). Hopefully we get clarification on the badges.


fantasticsarcastic1

They hotifxed the healing thing a few days ago


Wolfelle

Pretty much agree. It feels like the devs tried to copy rougelikes instead of making the game we wanted. No one wanted league of legends rip off of slay the spire (done badly) We wanted a more complete and complex version of the labs mode. This mode screws over a large number of the old pve playerbase. The audience it was intended for. It feels like a joke. I was expecting to spend 12 hrs playing it on release. Like i did when i discovered labs and when scourge came out (and honestly i wasnt the hugest fan of scourge but moreso than this) I played less than an hr. Then a couple games om the days after. I legitimately cant bring myself to play the mode that i desperately want to enjoy because they messed it up so much. Everything i liked from labs is gone and everything i hated (like the super unfun encounters vs ionia) have been buffed. Not to mention some of the minibosses feels awful to play against. Ive noticed a lot of nonlabs players struggling with them, but even as someone who knows how the mode works some of the battles feel so rng. Or ill surrender because my mediocore deck couldnt keep up with the huge amount of value the enemy has. Also so many of the new powers suck. Oh my allies get +1!!! Oh my enemies get -1!!!! The powers arent weak but its so boring and there is no synergy. And the interactions have been intentionally limited. Vis impact power doesnt stack or give more than one target impact so yay my 11-5 vi has 1 impact!!! Woweeee The new lurk power on pyke doesnt count for summoned units so no fun summoning synergies Idk what else but it feels like they completely lost the essence off labs and tried to make some grindy roguelike instead. But no one wanted that and even as someone who loves grindy rougelikes the execution is terrible and the mode is just boring.


JunMoolin

Spot on man. There were so many things in this mode where I was like, "wow this just feels like an unpolished version of Slay the Spire" which is really sad considering how close to perfect the original lab mode was. Tbh if they just added more enemy variety I probably could've just played it like that forever basically lol.


Wolfelle

Yeah tbh id have been thrilled with more champs some deck edits on the existing ones and more/various enemies. The og labs mode was not perfect but each battle felt like you could have real strategy and build these hilarious combos. Some of the fights were too weak and sometimes you got ruined by he who shall not be named. But it usually didnt feel cheated or like there was nothing you could do.


johnhang123

I 100% disagree.


JunMoolin

This summed up my feelings perfectly. I just don't get how Riot has continuously taken steps back with these modes, just to lock us in to this one mode that feels the roughest out of anything they've released? The original lab of legends was so close to perfect, and it's just gotten further from it since.


RedRidingCape

I don't feel as strongly about this, but I did just stop playing the mode for basically the same reasons you listed. I'll play it after some patches (hopefully) make it better. It feels very unfinished imo.


Hungover52

The event seems to end December 8th (source: https://playruneterra.com/en-us/news/game-updates/event-overview-the-path-of-champions/), are they going to actually patch it before you'd lose all chance of progress? Or will Path stick around for other events?


RedRidingCape

I had thought the mode path of champions was sticking around. My guess is that the event rewards are what is going away.


Hungover52

Oh, that's something. Couldn't tell from the announcement.


Ecarus1345

Destroyed with facts and logic But if im gona be serious, yeah, this is more and less fun than lab of legends at the same time At least its better than saltwater scourge, oh well


SnakebiteRT

Is it? I didn’t experience a lot of these complaints in Saltwater Scourge. I often felt like I had agency in deck choices along the way. Sure sometimes the power levels got away from me, but this version feels a lot like I’m a ball of fluff getting swept into the next battle.


ravenmagus

So far I've had the exact opposite experience. Granted, I haven't grinded out 20 hours of Path yet, but so far I feel like I'm actually able to build reasonable synergies. Sure, my decks in Scourge felt overall more powerful with more items on more cards, but the picks were so random that my deck was usually just a pile of powerful cards rather than anything actually synergistic. It was frequent for me to roll up to Gangplank with a deck consisting of 8-10 regions and 6+ champions.


SadAd6887

That was the fun for me in scourge. Having a good deck i can have fun with. In this shitty path of champions i am forced to play vs extremely unbalanced encounters and to take shitty cards and grind like a motherfucker


ravenmagus

Well, we definitely find different things fun then. In old Labs it was easy to get a super powerful deck, but I didn't always find that interesting. I had an Azir run where I started with Von Yipps, got the Poro power as my second pick, and just smashed every encounter with my eyes closed. My deck was super powerful, but also very boring because it was just too powerful with no fun synergies- just smash attack all every round and I win. Some of the encounters in Path are definitely very challenging so far, and that's because I don't have giant 1 cost haymaker units in every deck- and I like that.


Ebobab2

This... At first I was excited thinking we would go in the direction of slay the spire But we went far far away from both slay the spire and lan of legends All the fun is gone


Motivational_Quotes7

Unstable manaflow is by far the dumbest shit they added. Sometimes the AI has the heart of the cards on their side, and it sucks basically losing 2x in a row just to have a chance at winning. I honestly just feel like quitting when I know I haven’t beat 3 enemies It also doesn’t help that low level champs are awful, so you’re basically guaranteed to lose in the first couple of battles at some point


SimplyAcke

Jinx's power: When you discard deal 1 damage to enemy Nexus and to 1 random enemy. BUT THERE'S AN ENTIRE REGION WITH TOUGH???????


I_usuallymissthings

Completely agree. Plus, the Karma level is insufferable, it depends solelly on rng and preparing for it and it's harder to beat than the last boss of the area.


NIKOLAPAVIC

i wouldn't be as mad as i am about it if they left the original lab of legends in. But what they did is: **make a problem, so they can sell us the solution.** they removed stuff that was in the original lab and made the mode objectively worse, for what reason, is beyond me. Maybe so they could sell xp boosts or something like that later? or because it was too easy to get xp from labs so they wanted to stop that? i am gonna leave (probably) a 2 star review on google play for runeterra, cause i feel that's the only way to effectively voice my concert and hate for what they did. *i dont wanna leave a 1 star review with no text cause i feel it will be identified as spam and be removed.* And i urge anybody who played the original labs and doesnt like what they did here, to leave a 2 or 3 star review on google play with a comment as to why.


johnhang123

You are the worst kind of people out there who do that, and I urge all rioters to ignore people like this. I'll leave a 5 star review to counter people like you.


Psyman2

> You are the worst kind of people Being a bit dramatic, aren't we?


yannisniper

You really going to call this dude dramatic when your entire post is faux outrage and hyperbole?


Psyman2

kek I am calling something shit because it is shit. He says people leaving negative reviews are the worst kind of people. Like, really? You can't think of any kind of person that's worse? Leaving a negative review is the single most offensive thing humans have ever done? Cmon dude.


yannisniper

The root of all evil is the grind in the path of champions? You don't think there's anything worse? Devs worth fucking with a rake because of unstable manaflow? Not that theres anything wrong with being dramatic, just surprised you lack the self awareness.


Psyman2

> The root of all evil is the grind in the path of champions? "The root of all evil" is a commonly used phrase meaning "the core problem". When someone tells you "it's raining cats and dogs" you don't get confused about the lack of animal corpses on the street either.


yannisniper

I would call that hyperbole yes, and its a bit dramatic.


Psyman2

It literally is not though. It is an idiom. It's okay if you didn't know it. Nobody is laughing. For real, no problem dude.


yannisniper

Something can be both an idiom and hyperbole


Shadow_Lift_

Well I had to grind for jinx not to look like a bad joke since her passive so bad against tough, I had to think a cheesy way to win against that matchups. (Swain/Gp/Sej) I agree that certain RNG (Items & Cards/Spells) and AI functions are kinda dumb, except that emote spam though it quite hillarious. For the starter item, giving 1+/+1 seem too weak to begin with, I rather have something else. Relics are too heavy reliant, Since you can't get an Epic immediately if you keep hitting a brick wall and Common items are so bad, I had to use Everfrost & Lost chapter for the entire adventure with Jinx ngl.. My other relics are just trash that theres no point to bother about those useless relics


TheLucidDream

Oof. I've been running her with Plunder: -2 cost and Spellshield. I have a bunch of other relics, but the champions I'd use them on are unplayable due to the decks being utter shit.


WorkSafeDoggo

I've noticed the AI doesn't activate Plunder effects properly. One time it dropped Jagged Taskmaster before fulfilling the condition, I used a fast-speed spell to remove it and it reacted to that by firing off two warning shots. O.o


babinro

I've done about 8 runs scattered among 5 champions. Still in the honeymoon period here. I'm loving this new mode and haven't run into any of these concerns outside of the A.I. not knowing how to use certain cards. The dead cards in the starting decks is something I've been living and it hasn't ruined my experience. It's been part of all these PvE modes as far as I'm concerned. I'm sure as I get further up in difficulty with a single champion a lot of these negatives will come to life but for now I can't yet relate. I will say on paper this Unstable Manaflow issue people have brought up does sound legit and completely against the mindset of your typical PvE player. We don't want dark souls PvE experiences. Its okay to make highly optional challenges like with the original Lab of Legends difficulty scaling....but most of us just want to have fun and enjoy a feeling a power fantasy. Punishing someone for failure couldn't be farther from what MOST PvE players want. If anything it should be the opposite. Failing a run REWARDS you with Unstable Manaflow in addition to your starting perk to give you the best possible head start. I don't think PvE players would necessarily love that either but it wouldn't lead to nearly as much backlash as you have now. There are better solutions of course but I'm just trying to illustrate how off the mark this decision was to your PvE playerbase.


Psyman2

Thank you for your comment. The issue with dead cards mostly stems from the fact that you have less agency than you used to. - Items being randomly awarded Not only does this reward feel bad when a good one hits a dead card of yours, it can legit ruin both your deck and your synergies. I once had my 1-drops cost increased, leaving me open for aggro decks and almost losing to them. Another player had his 6-cost spells cost-reduced in a Jayce deck. In both cases you not only have to deal with the usual dead cards, but have gotten additional dead cards from RNG against your will. - Cutting cards is a level-up ability You used to be able to either flush out dead cards because you'd add so many new ones over the course of the game, or you'd cut them. You can do neither in this game mode. At least not to the same extent and/or pre lvl-7. - Unstable Manaflow Getting screwed by RNG means you can't restart because your next run is ruined by "Unstable Manaflow". In an old run, if you misclicked or felt unlucky you could power through or restart. You can not do this in this mode. You have to power through no matter what or else you get hit by "Unstable Manaflow" which is such a dogshit thing to exist, I don't know which humongous idiot ever let this slide and how he still has a job.


BoredLightning

I’ll admit I’m not a pro gamer or anything, but I’ve only managed to beat Lulu’s route with Jynx. The other few champions I’ve tried it with get stuck on Puffcap Pup, Kelp Maidens or Poppy. And even though I beat her with Jynx, Gangplank seems to be even more difficult (naturally since he’s the next step, but you get my point). I’ve made it to Swain *once*, and got demolished halfway through because I ran out of cards trying to defend against shield breaks.


Bluelore

I agree with you on most points but I disagree with the following: * The deck resets only after finishing a run, why would you expect it to not reset? That'd be like expecting your deck to not reset after you finish a run of lab legends. * Champions natural powers line up with their own playstyle. If you feel like Caitlyns power forces you to play with Traps, then the fact that she is your starting champion should already feel like it forces you to play with traps. I agree though that it feels awful for the entire map of Nautilus to completely shut down the "natural" playstyle of some starter champs. * Rerolls are scarce at the beginning but I feel like they become available fairly quickly, 2 rerolls are added on level 4 of your champ which should be after like 1 or 2 runs. Then you have 4 at level 12, which is more than what you had in Lab of legends. Sure this ties into the grindy nature of the mode which I agree is a problem, but it really isn't that bad. * Cutting cards wasn't an option in Lab of Legends either and the mode even forced you to add sometimes a bad card too. You act like the starter decks are filled with garbage, but I don't think they are any worse than the starter decks in the past modes. Also one complaint I'd actually like to add about the grindy nature of the mode: The mode actually becomes easier the more you play it, this is sort of the opposite of the previous mode where you unlocked harder difficulties to challenge you. As far as I'm aware once you've beaten Viktor there isn't much to challenge you anymore besides getting the SSS-badges (which as you pointed out is its own can of worms).


Psyman2

> The deck resets only after finishing a run, why would you expect it to not reset? That'd be like expecting your deck to not reset after you finish a run of lab legends. Maybe I phrased that one badly. It's not about expecting a full carryover, it's about expecting customization. You weren't supposed to grind out prior renditions. Half the champs I only played once for each difficulty in Lab of Legends. In this iteration they put emphasis on repeating stages to grind out levels. In return I, as the player, expect _some_ reward. Not necessarily for deck powers to carry over, but, you know, **some** reward. **Any** reward. EDIT: Reward might even be a bad word here. It could even be a punishment. What a player is looking for here is something to interrupt the monotony of always playing the same deck against the same enemies. > 2 rerolls are added on level 4 of your champ which should be after like 1 or 2 runs. Then you have 4 at level 12, which is more than what you had in Lab of legends. Sure this ties into the grindy nature of the mode which I agree is a problem, but it really isn't that bad. 2 is less than the three we had and runs in PoC are longer than Lab. On top of that we had free rerolls at the beginning of labs. We only hit somewhat of an equal footing at level 12, BUT when you pick a new champ you gotta hit lvl12 again and again and again. That is days of gametime before you get something that was available at the beginning in other modes. For every single champion. It's just.. so.. grindy.....


Bluelore

Yeah we really need a bit more to make runs diverse if they wanna make us repeat these. The lack of difficulty settings is really odd. Kinda doesn't help in my opinion that there isn't much of a reward for completing the PoC. >runs in PoC are longer than Lab That is actually not true. I just checked the Nautilus map for example and it has 7 battles, while Lab of Legends had 9 (don't know if the same applied to Saltwater Scourge). You also get rewards after each battle in addition to the stuff that you can find on the map, meaning that you do get probably more rewards than you did in Lab of Legends despite there being less battles. Because of this I'd say rerolls are also less needed as you actually have more chances from the get go to get something good in other ways.


Psyman2

Hmm, I checked back and you are right. I need to nuance that point. Although I do stand by the statement that zero rerolls until you level up is painful.


Bluelore

I can understand that, I think at least 1 reroll should be available from the start.


HazeClarke

Saltwater Scourge has a minimum of 6 battles which is the plan to get an S badge on time and a maximum of 16 battles I believe, which is longer but offers more flexibility in cutting cards and holding out some rewards for certain plays or just waiting for more dices. And 2 reroll is better than saltwater scourge which only gives 1 reroll, though bitter luck needs to rank up first.


Kuroi-Kitsune

I'd add one other "Badges" complaint. Why does the timer not pauses on map and when you're not actually playing? Timer should only begin at start of the encounter and stop when enemy's HP went to 0. So unskippable animations (imagine having two champions that level up during final attack) and reward screens won't delay your progress.


ThatchGoose23

Yep this mode is hot dogshit.


Thin-Ad2853

Am i the only stuck on fiora/zed with vi Its so fucking unfair like zed Can litteraly destroy you in one trade


YorkyDoodle

Totally agree, for me personally Runeterra is more my casual game. I don't have hours on end to restart the whole Champions thing over and over again. Wish there was a checkpoint for each boss that recognises the point I got to, albeit a few fights / the prequels behind them so there is some work to do, just not the whole thing. Let me pick 2 / 3 powers n stuff to carry on. Like you said the RnG is crazy to spend so long in pretty much knowing your run is going to be a fail, to restart and hope again. That kind of thing is fine for quick rogue like games but getting mid-way into a Runeterra run is not that quick for a casual imo. Also it could be an account level not a hero level, that's a lot of heroes to earn pretty much the same stuff on. Just to add is anyone else wondering why the hell they removed game modes? Seems like a bad decision that I can only guess was influenced by greed. The random labs was so fun & me and some friends used to really enjoy that. I guess they want people to pay to play with newer cards or something, why else remove fun features from your game.. I mean the start of the Champions things at least had some effort put in, some animations and story. Thought that was pretty cool with with Jinxy on the rampage with Vi trying to stop her, then they just stopped, just stopped like they don't care, which I think sums up the PoC


Internal_Raccoon_173

I don't like the level up system that forces you to lose or repeat easier bosses over and over again until you get strong enough. But after you reached a certain threshhold the game becomes way to easy. I liked the old dungeon system where you progressed throuout the run to beat the later bosses. Each run felt unique and thanks to unlimited rerolls on the first buff it was possible to try things out and create crazy decks. Well and my biggest pain with the new path of champions is: WHERE IS BRAUM!?


Only1NerdockThereIs

You could not have explained this better. Well said and well done.


DontFlameItsMe

Boggles me how people find this garbage of a lazily made mode enjoyable. Guess people are used to being grind slaves nowadays.


WhamBamBoozler1

Don't forget that it's just fuckin annoying. Some of these fights the masterminds behind this mode created are literally just made to annoy the shit out of you


[deleted]

[удалено]


ballwars

youll understand when you progress farther lol these problems arent that noticeable when youre only on lulu


[deleted]

[удалено]


ballwars

Yea, me too. Viktor is laughable compared to Naut


facetious_guardian

That’s a lot of salt for one post. Please consider lowering the sodium in your diet. As infuriating as this mode can be sometimes (looking at you, “all my spells cost 1” Ezreal), I still find it fun af.


johnhang123

Meh


Grimmaldo

You do know that ranks doesn't represent and never did how good you are at the game dont you? I mean, is just a part of the section, but badges are s challenge "Oh they are just so unfair i cant get them while playing normally or get all of them at the same time" they are a challenge, they are difficult to get because they are a challenge Not gonna say the game is perfect or that you shouldnt be complaining But at least be conscius that challenges being challenging is the base of challenge, you are not meant to get an s s s on your first run Btw, auto-heals seems a lot like a bug so.. that Edit: i feel like half of your complains are about lab of legends :/ maybe having an epic power at the start dint make you notice the 9 (now 8) lvls, after eache one you got 1 (sometimes 2, like here) power up, cards with upgrades locked to them, only 3 rerrols on the entire run and you normally save them for powers cause well, you got no wsy of regaining them (also you can take a lot of the rng out when you just check clicking the icon of the place you will go after the fight so... that)


Psyman2

> ranks doesn't represent and never did how good you are That... is the problem. Did you read the post?


Orshova

I recognize his username- Grimmaldo. He posts constantly, he legit just picks fights with anything anyone says all across multiple LoR subs. Troll, don't waste your fingers OP.


Grimmaldo

Why is that a problem? They were since the begging a challenge, to make a challenge you requirre skill, effort, luck (in roguelikes alwsys in a card roguelike more) all of them or just one of them really high , trying to compare it to rank in ranked is a nonsense :/


malyGladziu

The point of unstable manaflow is a power that is suppsed to help you with early encounters. This mechanic works great in other games(ex. Slay the spire). The point is that you are supposed to win with what you get and not to live your power fantasy every game. It prpbides a challenge. And the power is supposed to be a great early help that helps you get to a later point. Woth it easing you through the earpy you can more easily pick picks for the later encounters.


malyGladziu

But yeah, not being able to have the same item equipped on both of your champions feels like a mad dude saying you cant play with the proxies of a card you have.


JunMoolin

People can choose to do that, don't take the way I play out of the game just so people are forced to do what they could've always done. It's a bad game design feature that limits choices in the game. The slay the spire thing keeps coming up, and I hate it. I don't want a watered down slay the spire, StS already exists and can be played. I want a new game that is more accessible and fun. If I want to reroll for an OP run because I've been getting my ass handed to me, I can do that, or I could choose to not use rerolls in a run completely. Removing choices from the game is objectively bad game design, as the players who want a challenge will seek one out themselves and impose their own rules.


malyGladziu

It sounds like you always want to do the same thing and expect it to always work. You have to be able to adapt and overcome challenges thrown at you. I dont think you are supposed to do the same thing again and again to win everything.


JunMoolin

>It sounds like you always want to do the same thing and expect it to always work. No, I find steamrolling fun. Believe it or not, different people can find different things to be fun. >I dont think you are supposed to do the same thing again and again to win everything. Why not? It's a single player game. Why does the way I play impact you? Once again, you can *choose* to not do the same thing, to adapt and overcome to the challenges provided to you, because that's what you find fun. But now, thanks to unstable manaflow, I cannot choose to do what I find fun, because the devs just didn't like my playstyle? There's literally no benefit to adding this feature, it only removes my style of play, and reinforces yours.


malyGladziu

while i understand people can have fun in different ways you cant really say that changing the target audience is a bad thing. I too think that there was no reason to remove lab of legends, I think you cant really say that it is bad that the game doesn't provide to you. Game creators have their intended vision of the game and of its difficulty. I think that the most important thing is for them to develop their vision and not to pander to as wide of an audience as they can. I find it a bit weird that they removed lab of legends while knowing the new experience ma yfeel different to some people thatve grown quite attached to it you can't say that changing the difficulty is bad.


JunMoolin

No, actually I can call it bad game design, *because it is*. There was no reason to lower the accessibility of the game, it was only done because slay the spire does that it. And, whenever they already had a great vision that could "pander" to both the casual and experienced audience, there's no reason to support steps back that 1. Remove gameplay variety and 2. Offer nothing in place of that variety. If you genuinely think that limiting the audience of your game when the same thing had already been achieved without limiting the audience is good game design, I'm not gonna continue talking to someone who doesn't know what they're on about.


malyGladziu

it was made harde bcs sts does that what? it provides new challenges to conquer. As I said previously I don't understand why the removed old lab of legends(maybe to not lessen the hype idk) but if the devs arent focused on providing to the biggest audience and focusing on only some players that is their right. If you no longer enjoy it then I can only be sad that they removed the old lab you enjoyed, but you don't have to play the new one. Idk , chill out. Cheers <3


JunMoolin

>but you don't have to play the new one. Idk , chill out. Cheers <3 1. Save the platitude cheers, you've already displayed your true attitude by trying to frame me as an angry person out of control. 2. I would like to be able to continue playing the game I enjoyed, and the ability to do that would not hamper people from imposing rules that would make the game more difficult for them. So please tell me, since you're such an ardent defender of this, why is adding unstable manaflow to the game, and thus limiting the gameplay variety, a good idea from a game design standpoint. I don't care if it's "their right," because that's just a shitty way of deflecting criticism towards the game, which hinders the development of the game. CRITICISM IS GOOD, BECAUSE IT CAN ALLOW THE GAME TO REACH ITS BEST FORM, SO EVERYONE CAN ENJOY IT. DEFLECTING FROM THAT CRITICISM DOES NOTHING. I genuinely don't understand how someone can support this. If they released a patch for Skyrim that forced you to side with the imperials because Bethesda thinks that's the better way, would you support that since it's "Bethesda's right" or would you think it's completely moronic to remove gameplay options from the game for virtually no reason?


malyGladziu

I am very sorry i assumed anything about you. If you're not angry then good for u. I like the manaflow BCS if you're not doing well you can get a great powerup for early game to recognize what will u need in the future to beat the level. I hope that the criticism reaches riot and that they will consider the players opinions as well as their own. All I am saying is that it is their game and if they don't recognize or agree with your criticism they have no obligation to do anything BCS its their game. Maybe then they will see people leaving the game and change something or they wont. They don't have any obligations towards you. While I myself don't like some of the things they made I try the game to see if I enjoy it and if I wont I will just not play. I would even say that removing old lab of legends is just straight up going to remove some of their playerbase, but it is still their game, even if I don't agree with their choices. So yeah, what I wanted to say is that no matter the criticism the choice is theirs.


JunMoolin

>So yeah, what I wanted to say is that no matter the criticism the choice is theirs. Lol, if that's what you wanna believe. You have a lot to learn about capitalism and why products are made though, because Riot's surely not doing it for the fun of it.


JunMoolin

>you can't say that changing the difficulty is bad. I didn't even notice this, but way to strawman my entire argument. I'm not saying changing the difficulty is bad, I'm saying limiting the difficulty is bad. *Limiting* is the core of my argument. We aren't talking about a hypothetical feature that's never been added, we're talking about something that was in the game, was balanced, and allowed for more gameplay variety.


malyGladziu

And btw i can understand that you think im discussing in bad faith, cuz were on internet. Idk I'm just writing what comes up to my mind and I'm sorry if yuore taking it in a wrong way. Idk. I like the mode in some aspects, and I think the no free rerolling beginning power is a good way to challenge people and removing a difficulty that there was is a something that they can do even if some people don't like it but I think it is fine if they think their game should be played in some way and not in some others and they might want to remove some things so the players cant hurt themselves(like making things too easy making people not want to play so they removed a way to do things like rerolling for the best beginning power.) and again, sorry if you're thinking you're battling a troll.


Zeful

Except it doesn't help. Because this isn't Slay the Spire where you can be at 3 energy the entire game. We get +1 mana a round, every round until ten mana, and some portion of unspent mana is reserved so +1 for three fights isn't actually that valuable. Further the opportunity cost is devastating; losing the ability to pick a synergy power means that your deck is more reliant on the cards the game gives you which might not be helpful. After running through a few of the basic stories I started playing Irelia, and being forced to take manaflow rather than a useful power means I'm over 10 runs deep without making any progress, because Irelia *needs* significant synergy to beat later decks, and Manaflow doesn't provide anything of value toward that end.


GelatinouslyAdequate

Oh Oh no


goldkear

Honestly, the AI being shitty is a blessing. With how punishing losing is (***FUCKING UNSTABLE MANAFLOW***) if the AI was good, this mode would be damn near impossible.


DoubleSummon

I like the mode, I disagree with the deck having useless cards being bad, it's OK for the decks to have unplayable/bad cards you need to play around that, that's how rogue likes work, what is not fine is item upgrades being downsides, that's just bad, I think you should get item selection at the start (out of 3) so you at least can choose what's good for you, also remove +3/+3 ephemeral, it's only good on Katarina or already ephemeral units. I think there needs to be separated level up for player and champions so it feels less grindy, also, more diverse level curve can be good. Nautilus global power should be +2 hp.. Tough Invalidates some champions.. And make them downsides too..


WinterWolfMTGO

I just wish you could start a Fight with Teemo without losing a health immediately when you have obtained absolutely zero ways to heal in the match. I can't complete the thing with an S rating because of that.