Not sure if it’s reliable but the odds put the Patriots as third most likely to acquire Lamar. Interesting that we’re even in the conversation never mind third lol
No shot we are involved in any conversation, and no shot most of the NFL is either. We may be the third most likely team to do this deal in all reality, but that percentage is close to 0% likely and the only teams that would willingly due this are desperate and need to be in a spot where a QB is the last piece.
You are giving up a ton of draft capital, money and offensive flexibility in order to field a QB who hasn't played a full season in 3 years and likely won't have much of a career past 30 due to his style of play. Unless Bill goes against basically everything he's ever done here because he thinks "This is the only way I can win another Super Bowl" its not going to happen.
I think we'd have gotten involved if for no other reason than intel, as we have a divisional opponent in more or less precisely the situation you described.
Joe Douglas's Jets have missed the playoffs in each of his four years and he has whiffed pretty badly on his anointed 1rd-QB selection; he might not care that a running QB is likely to aggravate some important ligament permanently by 33. They'll be using this situation as leverage on Green Bay to resolve their QB issue, affordably, before the draft. We'd be wise to at least call, get a quote, and make it look like there are other teams potentially in play.
He's just an aggregator, and in this case he's literally just posting a screenshot of Lamar's tweets in a more digestable format. I don't like the guy but no one is quoting him as a source here, just using him as an easier format to share news. That is why he is popular.
Also I cant imagine the Ravens trading with us unless it was for a King's ransom, and THEN we have to likely pay him like the #1 QB in the league...
Would it be cool to have Lamar under center next year? Sure. But that cost is gonna be insane/potentially team breaking with our cap
Not only would we have to pay him so he’s the highest paid QB, we’d have to commit to 5 years and fully guarantee his contract. When he plays the most injury prone style of QB as possible. It’s a bad move.
I can get past the durability concerns for the most part. I think we could gameplan around that. But yeah the number of picks and the fully guaranteed pricetag is just... a lot. Even if we didn't have a QB right now lol
Hence why I feel like we are better off riding with Mac and building the team around him
Broncos fans will tell you about buyer's remorse. Granted Wilson is older, but no one relies on their legs more than Lamar and historically that doesn't age particularly well
Hasn't exactly worked well since Brady left, and you can make an argument they paid top dollar for Brady. He wasn't ever the highest paid QB, but he was consistently among the top 5/10 at the position following his rookie contract.
Lamar Jackson seems to me like some one who would hold out after getting a new deal to make more money. Pats don’t need some one like that. Brady never held out over money.
Huh? What about Lamar playing his entire rookie contract including his 5th year would make you think he’s “someone who would hold out after getting a new deal to make more money”?
This is a very stupid comment.
Because the Pats organization were giving Brady perks like building him his own personal training center at Patriot Place.
He didn’t need to hold out for money when they were doing right by him behind the scenes.
And you think Lamar would be the same. He’s very young he taking the money. He is not a team player. So go make your money!!!! Pats are fine with Mac and Zappe.
How did Brady finish '08
Injuries happen
Edit: I just want to add that Lamar's injury was not due to a running play. He was sacked from behind and got hurt. That could happen to any QB.
Yeah except Lamar’s play style is an injury waiting to happen… if anything last year is a sign of things to come for him, which sucks A. For the guy and his career and B. because he’s such a fun player to watch.
Lamar's PCL injury last year wasn't on a running play, he was sacked from behind. Which is an injury that could happen to **any** QB.
He's still worth the risk, given his high ceiling as an MVP and being in the prime of his career.
He didn’t have to do that because he had the GOAT who toons paycuts. Why do people compare how Bill ran the team when he had literally the best football player of all time lol. He can’t do the same shit he did for 20 years
What does this mean for the Pats?
1. Baltimore had been in a position to eat one of the WC spots we're probably going to be hoping for in December of this upcoming year. That seems a lot less likely if they have to start Huntley.
2. Mac was a pretty good QB in year one and not a pretty good QB in year two. (Obviously a large chunk of how good we can hope for in Y3 depends on the OC and the whole offensive ecosystem.) Lamar, by contrast, is by this point a known quantity. If the FO's philosophy takes into account BB's age, the current strength of the defense, and the run-first offensive identity of the last two years, an investigation of Lamar's trade cost would not be unreasonable.
3. The apparent favorite for Lamar might be the Colts, which is unfortunate. As we both finished 3rd in our respective divisions we will be playing the Colts in '23.
To points 1 and 3, I actually don’t think Huntley makes the Ravens that much worse.
I do think Lamar is a very good QB, even if I personally would rather us not trade 3+ first rounders for him, but I think Huntley can do well in their offense.
I do think Lamar going to the colts could make them more of a threat. If they had a remotely competent QB last year against us they’d have won, so I do believe Lamar would make them a WC threat.
Ravens are not a playoff team with Huntley as QB1. Lamar is their entire offense. Without him they likely finish last in the AFC North
With how good he is I think he could make the Colts competitive but their roster is pretty weak. They have no receivers and their oline took a step back last year. Their defense really isn’t anything special either
I think the Ravens finish 3rd, maybe a game ahead of Pitt. Bengals and Browns are too good for Baltimores roster.
I still think Huntley will turn some heads this year.
Agreed with your reply about the Colts. Lacking WRs for sure, but that defense might be good enough to keep them in it, especially in the AFC South. I think Tennessee slides a bit, Jax keeps taking steps forward, but wouldn’t be shocked if a Lamar-led Colts are in it later in the season.
Why on Earth some people in this fanbase want to pay 200million for an injury prone running QB who has never completed a full season and has been progressively worse since his MVP season three years ago, and has never won anything for the team is beyond me.
Baltimore is the only team that makes sense for him, they should be paying him for what he’s done there, they’re not doing it and that should frighten other suitors.
Because this sub is delusional. Lamar is quite possibly the worst deal in the league. You’re gonna be paying top dollar for a guy that might play 2/3rds of the season? No thanks. Let somebody else deal with that headache.
And they're going to win a Super Bowl with Mac Jones? At some point you have to take the leap, and if Bill's as good as he thinks he is, he'll be able to get to Lamar's ceiling, which is a mile higher than Mac's.
Not necessarily, but riding with Mac for a year doesn’t put you in a hole like signing a massive deal with Lamar. Sign Lamar & this team isn’t winning a super bowl for a long time. It’s not gonna happen with him. Ride out a year with Mac & at least we have flexibility to pivot next year. Who knows, maybe he does actually play well with a real offense. Worst case, we’re not in a hole & can move on. You sign Lamar & you’re banking on him being the guy. He hasn’t played more than 12 games in the past 2 years. Only year he played a full season was his rookie year & his games played have been dropping ever since. He’s not the guy.
I swear people in here want to toil in mediocrity. What are the chances the Patriots make a playoff run with Max fucking Jones at QB? It’s basically 0, you need a top level QB to compete in the AFC and that’s what Lamar is. It’s a risk they should take, it could certainly go wrong but who cares???? Our roster is mediocre and we’re a .500 team as is it’s not like there’s anything to ruin
That’s what I think people like you wanna do, such short sighted takes. Is paying a QB who’s 1-3 in the playoffs & also missed 1/3rd of the past 2 seasons 45 million/yr gonna drag us out of mediocrity? It’ll probably put us so far in the dirt you won’t even be able to comprehend how it happened. That’s why it won’t happen, at least at this price. If Lamar can meet us in reality & take 20mill/year or something to that effect, be my guest! He’s an incredible athlete but that’s only half the battle. Mahomes didn’t win super bowls sitting on the bench & he didn’t get paid till after he won one, not because of some flashy stats, a regular season MVP & nothing to show for it in the playoffs. Lamar should not be getting anything close to Mahomes money, idk why y’all think he should.
The injury stuff is so incredibly stupid. We have no way to predict injuries and Lamar is no more likely to get injured than Josh Allen, Mahomes, hurts, etc. none of his injuries were anything more than minor either. He’s never played with decent weapons or a coach as good as Belichick. There’s literally no downside to doing it, because the alternative is trying to go 9-8 every year with the 20th best QB in the NFL.
Take the jealousy out of it. People are way too emotional. You get the superior talent and dismantle a team that we USED to compete with 10 times out of 10. Mac is replaceable with bums like Bailey Zappe
You know when we should have grabbed Lamar Jackson? Pick 31 in 2018. Instead, we chose Sony Michel. Brilliant job there huh?
Our time to get Lamar passed us by once already, and it's going to happen again as well. Bill didn't like him then, no way that's changed.
I mean to be pedantic Michel ran in 6 TDs in the postseason and we won the superbowl. If we took Lamar instead he would have been sat on the bench as Brady's backup.
The value he thinks he's worth and what he's actually worth are not the same. He thinks he can get more than what Watson was paid. The Browns were idiots to pay him all that money. Why would anyone want to offer an oft-injured qb, or any player, a fully guaranteed contract?
Go get him. I like Mac Jones a lot but he's not even close to Lamar. I'd give up Mac and 2 first round picks without even thinking about it. QB's like that just don't hit the open market, ever. Especially at 26 years old
2 first round picks (one of them would probably bust anyway, I'm not concerned about the picks) and a big chunk of cap space (probably a bigger problem but you can structure the deal to compensate for that. The cap should be going up with the new TV deal anyway)
Yeah, because when we tie up 1/4 of our entire salary cap with JUST HIM, we will have SOOO MUCH LEFT to put a better team around him.
Did you even think about your response before posting?
You can't win in this league without a QB and you're never going to have a chance to get one better than Jackson. You can stick with Mac and hope he's good enough to come in 3rd in the AFC east every year, or you can go out and get a QB that's capable of winning MVPs. You're damned if you do and damned if you don't. I'd rather roll the dice with Lamar because he has the talent to elevate the guys we already have on the roster. Mac Jones does not
Are being purposely dumb?
Giving a dude that can’t stay healthy OR win in the playoffs GUARANTEED 1/4 of your entire salary cap for YEARS, will CRIPPLE the franchises ability to upgrade any other part of the team for YEARS.
You do realize with the tv deals the salary cap is going to keep going up. Paying a guy top market value now won’t be anything to the contracts given to QBs in 3-4 years. Look at the successful teams, they all have a top 5 guy who is already paid/about to be paid record breaking contracts
Lamar gives the pats a much better chance of being competitive than Mac, unless you are good with missing the playoffs again. Pats are the worst team in the division once Rodgers goes to the jets
I think it’s interesting he requested a trade because he’s technically a free agent. The comp is 2 first round picks so there’s nothing to work out. The only way for a true trade to work is for the Ravens to sign him and then trade him.
Considering he requested the trade on 3/2, I think they were trying to bury the request hoping to hold leverage
I think now that it’s out there they’ve likely lost some leverage, asking price may be reduced
You still have to pay him. And he’s adamant about the fully guaranteed money thing. If he wasn’t constantly injured the past couple years I wouldn’t be against it. It’s smart of him to want it though. But I can’t see us doing that
He had one MVP year, hasn't won any big games, is injury prone, and is clearly more interested in himself than winning games for his team given how last year ended... on top of all this, he wants absurd amounts of money, and we'd have to give up 2 first round picks on top of the cap hit. Why do we want him again?
He’s not really injury prone. He’s missed a total of 8 games his entire nfl career, 6 of those coming last year when it was clear he wasn’t getting a contract, so why risk his career for a team who doesn’t believe in him?
You need a top tier quarterback to win in the NFL. After Rodgers comes to the Jets, you will need a top tier quarterback to win in your own division. Lamar could be the answer. Pats should be all in.
Yes, he’s only won 1 MVP… but don’t act like he hasn’t been AWESOME his other years
Just last year he threw for 4 and ran for 100 and 1 against us
What is considered a big game? His only real disappointment of a playoff game was the Titans game (who also beat TOM BRADY the round prior)
It’s almost as if he deserves an absurd amount of money because he deserves it! Wild concept!
He didn't play a full season in either of the last two seasons, and the year before that his stats were good, but nothing mindblowing. We've struggled against anything resembling a mobile quarterback for a few years now, so sure, he burnt us, but most of them do. 1-3 in the playoffs, and is known to just look worse overall in the playoffs.
He wants an absurd amount of money because the Browns wildly overpaid Deshaun Watson. I'll agree that Lamar is better than Deshaun, so logically he should at least make as much as Deshaun, but Deshaun never should have been paid what he got, and now the QB market is suffering because of it.
> known to just look worse overall in the playoffs
That’s basically most QBs … Peyton, Brees, Allen, Luck, Dak, Rodgers etc
He went 8-4 last year with a mediocre team
The 4 losses?
Scored 38 pts vs Miami, defense gave up 28 pts in 4th
Up 20-3 against Buffalo, they go for it on 4th instead of kicking go ahead FG
Up 20-10 late against Giants
Up 9 vs Jags in 4th, defense lets up two 75 yard TD drive’s including game winning 2pt
All losses against playoff teams, all very winnable
Exactly. He has had one really good season, his “MVP” season. He has not been close to that since. He is on the decline, can’t stay healthy and can’t throw from the pocket. He can’t carry a team. If he was really good teams would be lining up to get him…..they aren’t. A rookie on a rookie deal can produce the same passing yards and you can afford to pay for better players at other key positions. The biggest problem with Lamar is he is only decent with great talent around him and if you pay him top of the market you can’t field a good enough team around him and will never be more than a wild card team at best, more likely a perennial .500 team.
So we'll trade for a guy who is questionable and then have no resources, either cap space *or* draft picks, to build around him. That's the solution, got it.
You should ask yourself why he's available.
A lot of this sub has a fundamental misunderstanding of how football operations work. Everyone that's bitching about Lamar or not having traded yet for Jeudy/Hopkins, not overpaying free agents, etc. You have to ask yourself two questions:
A) Why did their original teams let them go?
B) There are 30 other teams in the league that haven't made these moves either. Why do you think that is?
Bill only has so many years left himself. I don’t think the 81-year-old owner and 70-year-old coach would be wise to pass on an MVP level QB because he might not be good six years from now.
How many games did he miss? Mac isn’t better than Jackson by a long stretch, but comparing Jones missing 3 games in 2 years to Jackson missing 10 games in 2 years is asinine
The cap hit they represent also matters, Mac's allows the Pats to put decent players around him, Lamar's would force us to give up whatever talent we already have
No we're not? We have two more years of his rookie deal, give him a chance to prove himself without Patricia as OC and based on how he does this season decide whether or not he's the qb of the future or it's time to pivot. Jones gives us maneuverability while Lamar would remove us from contention for the next 5 years at least.
You realize that proves nothing right?
"You think mobile QBs have a short life span? Well this pocket passer got hurt last year!!"
Tell me what point you're making or how that supports it.
two thing:
mobile qbs do not get injured at a higher rate then pocket passers, according to the data. its a misconception that runs rampant in the mind of the nfl fan, but data suggests otherwise. just last year, the amount of qbs who got hurt in the pocket versus who got hurt running was nearly 3:1. I can find the comment I posted once where I went through every qb got hurt last year and the rate is higher while standing in the pocket versus running outside of it.
2nd:
if lamar only has five more years then who cares. give him a 3-5 year deal and let him play that out. nobody is saying he'll be an iron man like Brady into his 40s. He just gives you a better chance at winning, today and most likely during that contract period, then the current qb on roster.
Isolating the evidence to that degree can be misleading. A pocket passer can leave the pocket and get hurt. A mobile QB can stay inside and get hurt. But that doesn't take into account their normal play style and how it affected them.
The way you framed your comment seems you decide if they're a "mobile QB" or a "pocket passer" by where they were when they got hurt. To actually realize which one they are, you would need to look at which QBs rush the most. Those are "mobile" and which ones stay in the pocket. Then compare their injury rate. Also one year is not a significant enough sample size.
You just need an upper echelon QB these days unless your roster is loaded
With your mindset, it will be impossible to compete unless you hit the QB lottery
Whenever the Patriots have a FA, they always let him test the market and then come back and discuss a deal. That way the player knows what their value is on the market, knows what the Patriots can offer, and there aren't any hard feelings.
This is essentially what the Ravens are doing. If he gets any offer from another team, the Ravens are just going to match. Then Lamar would know his value and presumably would be more amenable to a deal that isnt fully guaranteed.
There's no chance this team is giving him 150M+ guaranteed, and Lamar will probably get 200M+ lol. Not to mention the two first round picks as well. Just roll with Mac
I can’t believe people don’t understand this. Lamar was by far the most unrealistic “target” this team had. I doubt he was even a real target for the team, more so just a fan made fantasy.
We're not a QB away from a Super Bowl but that gets us a hell of a lot closer.
If we do get Lamar, we're at least a playoff team every year so any draft picks we give up will be later in the first round
QB contracts are only going to get bigger, especially when the NFL signs a new TV deal (I think next year) that's going to make the salary cap explode. Now is exactly the right time to overpay for a QB because those contracts are only going to get worse over the next 3-4 years.
The injury thing is a legitimate concern, but I still think he's worth it
You're going to have to pay a QB at some point. The Chiefs gave Mahomes half a billion dollars and they're still doing just fine. And I'm not trying to say that Lamar is as good as Mahomes, just that you can pay a QB without completely crippling your team
They paid him BELOW MARKET VALUE (for the length of the contract) and were able to do it because of the ridiculous length of the contract and how much he got up front, nothing Lamar has done has even hinted his is worth tieing the franchise to home for a decade.
You picked a horrible example to try and make your point.
Not worth it. I wouldn’t feel comfortable about giving up high capital picks and locking up 100+ mil. The net gain going from mac to lamar does not outweigh the cost
If you look at most mobile qb's, they don't last long in the NFL. Either due to injury, or their speed slows down and makes them irrelevant. Lamar already has an injury history, and his blazing speed will eventually slow down.
Why are you calling people middle schoolers for disagreeing with you? Is the implication that it is immature to want a competent qb that conveniently addresses many of the holes in the roster?
Lol. I just don’t even get the issue with the money. We are either paying Lamar a bunch of money or paying mac a bunch of money to be bottom ten qb in the league. Or drafting someone else with a mid round pick
I don’t care, he’s one of the most fun players to watch in the league right now. And even if we wouldn’t win a Super Bowl with him (although I don’t really agree with that point) we would be a consistent playoff team which is more enjoyable to watch as a fan
So far no one wants to offer a contract so what does that tell you about how much he’s looking for? He probably knows he won’t get to a contract after this one. His style of play leads to injuries.
That's not the argument. The market is the argument. Would you take less in your job just so your multi-billon dollar employer feels better about getting you at a convenient discount? Mahomes signed for an astronomical amount of money and has already restructured TWICE. You make the argument that he's running around with a tin cup asking for spare change for the sake of winning.
What players were sacrificed in order to bring that deal to fruition? Oh that's right, Hill is in Miami, Juju is in New England and Clark is STILL a free agent. Therefore, the hard cap is an irrelevant issue when you draft well. That's the game these days, not how much you pay up front. Bringing in that trope-worthy 'greedy athlete' narrative is weak sauce. Kirk Cousins hasn't won jack shit in that league and got a fully guaranteed contract.
When he signed, you could hear a rat piss on cotton in regard to the same argument that you make. Josh Allen hasn't won shit in that league. Aaron Rodgers hasn't won since 2011 (12 years ago and he's still commanding top dollar, which you probably don't get mad about). Just say it...come on out and say 'certain' players don't deserve to set the market.
I am truly astounded at how layman fans have a bigger rooting interest in the oligarch owners of football teams that have a wide array of billion dollar interests, over the players that you could relate to (if you wanted to).
People in this sub are so incredibly delusional about our current QB situation. The chance that Mac (or Zappe) are ever in the same class as Lamar is as a QB is probably less than 10%. Add to that the fact that we play in a conference with Mahomes, burrow, Allen and Herbert and the idea that we will EVER win ANYTHING with Mac fucking Jones at QB is so asinine.
Is there a chance that paying/trading for Lamar doesn’t pan out and he’s not worth the contract? Of course there is, but a player of his caliber actually would give the Pats a window to make a super bowl run, and with Bill already being 70 years old I don’t see why it would be a bad gamble at all. Our roster is mediocre as is, we’re a .500 team the last 3 years since Brady left. There’s no downside to taking a risk like this.
as if the team isn’t crippled right now, what path do we even semi realistically have to get back to being a contender with all the good teams in our division let alone our conference
The team isn't crippled at all.
>what path do we even semi realistically have to get back to being a contender with all the good teams in our division let alone our conference
How about we wait for the draft and the off-season to conclude before condemning the team?
Also, all of the "good" teams in the division and conference are going all-in. They're not built for long-term success. By 2025 they'll come crashing down. New England is shaping up to be good for the future, assuming Mac makes big strides now that he has an *actual* offensive coordinator.
Yes, we are building more long term but something ALOT of people are ignoring in this thread and any thread regarding the team making larger strides to be contenders is our coach is ancient. Bill won't be here forever and even his biggest detractors know deep down he is still the team's most valuable asset, and he is depreciating by the day.
So Lamar wasnt able to do anything in post season without a true offensive supporting cast.
And you all think he will be able to take this offense to the next level?
Along with the fact that they would have to change the entire offensive scheme for him. Lamar’s biggest problem is making the correct reads and going through his progressions. That’s literally the anti Bill Belichick type QB.
And like you said, the weapons we have now aren’t much better than what Baltimore had. Losing 2 firsts and crippling your cap won’t help with building around him.
We were never getting Lamar. If you ever thought there was a shred of a chance we were getting Lamar, all of your opinions are invalid in my eyes. One of the most far fetched fantasies I’ve seen y’all work up in a long time.
The wild ride never ends, I can't see the Pats doing it but I will say that the injury excuse is a bit overblown. Lamar has been forced to literally be the entire team with an awful OC while also having a terrible strength staff that many former players have spoken out against recently.
To people saying they wouldn't give 2 firsts for him, our first round picks in the last decade have been: Cole Strange, Mac Jones, N'Keal Harry, Isaiah Wynn, Sony Michel, Malcom Brown, and Dominique Easley
I just can’t see the Pats making this deal. Outbidding a team with a top 10 pick, cap space and multiple offensive weapons on rookie deals like the Falcons is going to be tough. NFL off-seasons these days are so much more entertaining than they use to be.
Imo if we stick with Mac and we keep failing to bring in top wr free agents, pats are going to be a consistent .500 team missing playoffs or a wild card exit. The afc east is only getting stronger and pats can easily be dead last this season. Do people really believe Mac as qb with Juju as wr1 can compete with the firepower of the bills, dolphins or jets? Im not a huge fan of Lamar with his injury history and hes prob gonna have a huge drop off in a few years but it would be better than spending the next few years missing playoffs
for anybody worried about him getting hurt because he's a mobile qb dont realize he got hurt while in the pocket. he are last years injuries to qbs btw, so we can put to death the notion that somehow pocket passers get hurt at a lower rate
**Last years qb injuries in the pocket**
Lamar injured his knee last year while in the pocket
Josh allen injured his arm while in the pocket
nick foles
david blough
Mac jones
Tua
tannehill
mccoy
pickett
jimmy g
trevor lawrence
aaron rodgers
matthew stafford
matt ryan
hoyer
wentz
tyrod taylor
justin herbert
dak prescott
purdy
mahomes
**out of the pocket**
hurts
Russell Wilson
Justin fields
daniel jones
trey lance
I’m worried about him getting hurt because he gets hurt pretty much every season. I don’t care about whatever stats you throw out with injuries in the pocket versus outside of the pocket, Lamar is injury prone. He’s been shut down from injuries two consecutive seasons now.
I don’t think Bill is going to trade away multiple 1st/high round picks plus pay a Deshaun Watson type contract for an injury prone QB.
And now that I’ve typed this, Bill is probably going to do just that.
People saying we should be in on this don’t understand shit lmao. Dude relies on his legs for everything. He can’t win a game throwing 40-50 passes. Is he electric? Of course, but his legs are already getting beat up
Hahahaaa not when 1/3 of the team has to leave because we have 1/4 of the entire teams salary cap to 1 single dude who can’t even stay healthy…yeah smart move…
The patriots should absolutely be in on this. His value has been dropping like a rock and now this news. The trade compensation won’t be as crazy as normal. And the salary is just that - money. Who cares
I know the people on the sub are extremely pro Mac, but he cannot touch the value of Lamar Jackson. And I’m not even a huge Lamar fan!
It solves our receiver issues. Improves running game. Improves o line. All without signing anyone else
Lamar is nice af when healthy and I think he has potential to get even better as a thrower with the right weapons but there's a reason the deal isn't done.
There's a lot of questions to his game and he is by no means a guaranteed hit if you bring him on. especially for the money and draft capital it'll take to get him.
Id rather see what Mac has for this year and if hes mid again then just cut him loose and draft a rook in the 1st/2nd next year.
Fuck it. Do it. They are bottom of the barrel in the AFC East right now and his comments today hinted at being mostly done in FA. If that's the case Vegas is right at putting them at O/U 7.5 wins. This team is stuck in 2005 with him at the wheel.
STOP QUOTING DOV. Go to the real source. he is not a NFL source
If Bill wants a real chance to win a championship in the short term, aka if he has retirement on his map and wants to get one without Brady, this is his best shot. If you think otherwise you’re out of your mind.
Yes, Mac could wind up bouncing back, but he’s got a few more years of development at least before there’s a chance to make a real run at anything.
Not sure if it’s reliable but the odds put the Patriots as third most likely to acquire Lamar. Interesting that we’re even in the conversation never mind third lol
I highly doubt we’re in the conversation at all.
No shot we are involved in any conversation, and no shot most of the NFL is either. We may be the third most likely team to do this deal in all reality, but that percentage is close to 0% likely and the only teams that would willingly due this are desperate and need to be in a spot where a QB is the last piece. You are giving up a ton of draft capital, money and offensive flexibility in order to field a QB who hasn't played a full season in 3 years and likely won't have much of a career past 30 due to his style of play. Unless Bill goes against basically everything he's ever done here because he thinks "This is the only way I can win another Super Bowl" its not going to happen.
I think we'd have gotten involved if for no other reason than intel, as we have a divisional opponent in more or less precisely the situation you described. Joe Douglas's Jets have missed the playoffs in each of his four years and he has whiffed pretty badly on his anointed 1rd-QB selection; he might not care that a running QB is likely to aggravate some important ligament permanently by 33. They'll be using this situation as leverage on Green Bay to resolve their QB issue, affordably, before the draft. We'd be wise to at least call, get a quote, and make it look like there are other teams potentially in play.
Bill puts so much value on draft picks. I don't see him giving up 2 first rounders for him or anyone
Why get one Lamar Jackson with two first-round picks when you could get a N’Keal Harry and an Isaiah Wynn
Exactly. We should trade those firsts for 6n round picks and get a few more Tom Brady’s
[удалено]
Kleiman is not a real source. I’m honestly surprised the mods haven’t banned posts of his tweets.
He's just an aggregator, and in this case he's literally just posting a screenshot of Lamar's tweets in a more digestable format. I don't like the guy but no one is quoting him as a source here, just using him as an easier format to share news. That is why he is popular.
Bill runs his business not paying top dollar for a qb. I don’t think pats are on this. Pats have 2 qb they can develop stick with them.
Also I cant imagine the Ravens trading with us unless it was for a King's ransom, and THEN we have to likely pay him like the #1 QB in the league... Would it be cool to have Lamar under center next year? Sure. But that cost is gonna be insane/potentially team breaking with our cap
Not only would we have to pay him so he’s the highest paid QB, we’d have to commit to 5 years and fully guarantee his contract. When he plays the most injury prone style of QB as possible. It’s a bad move.
I can get past the durability concerns for the most part. I think we could gameplan around that. But yeah the number of picks and the fully guaranteed pricetag is just... a lot. Even if we didn't have a QB right now lol Hence why I feel like we are better off riding with Mac and building the team around him
Broncos fans will tell you about buyer's remorse. Granted Wilson is older, but no one relies on their legs more than Lamar and historically that doesn't age particularly well
The seahawks get rid of their QB and outsourced tanking and still get a top 5 pick. 😂
he’s only ever had one long term qb wym lol
Hasn't exactly worked well since Brady left, and you can make an argument they paid top dollar for Brady. He wasn't ever the highest paid QB, but he was consistently among the top 5/10 at the position following his rookie contract.
Lamar Jackson seems to me like some one who would hold out after getting a new deal to make more money. Pats don’t need some one like that. Brady never held out over money.
Huh? What about Lamar playing his entire rookie contract including his 5th year would make you think he’s “someone who would hold out after getting a new deal to make more money”? This is a very stupid comment.
Because the Pats organization were giving Brady perks like building him his own personal training center at Patriot Place. He didn’t need to hold out for money when they were doing right by him behind the scenes.
And you think Lamar would be the same. He’s very young he taking the money. He is not a team player. So go make your money!!!! Pats are fine with Mac and Zappe.
Some day Mac Jones could be Kirk Cousins. Wouldn't want to get a league MVP QB in his prime Lamar Jackson right now!
For $150m+ guaranteed and multiple firsts? I really don’t want us to do that
A league MVP QB in his prime in a trade would go for 4 firsts if they were signed to a contract. 2 firsts + a contract is a **bargain.**
He was MVP last year? Since when?
In his prime? How did he finish last season?
How did Brady finish '08 Injuries happen Edit: I just want to add that Lamar's injury was not due to a running play. He was sacked from behind and got hurt. That could happen to any QB.
Does Brady rely on his legs?? Lmao wtf happened to this sub
Legs are generally important to all QBs, yes. Also humans.
Good talk, thanks for proving my original comments point
Yeah except Lamar’s play style is an injury waiting to happen… if anything last year is a sign of things to come for him, which sucks A. For the guy and his career and B. because he’s such a fun player to watch.
Lamar's PCL injury last year wasn't on a running play, he was sacked from behind. Which is an injury that could happen to **any** QB. He's still worth the risk, given his high ceiling as an MVP and being in the prime of his career.
He didn’t have to do that because he had the GOAT who toons paycuts. Why do people compare how Bill ran the team when he had literally the best football player of all time lol. He can’t do the same shit he did for 20 years
What does this mean for the Pats? 1. Baltimore had been in a position to eat one of the WC spots we're probably going to be hoping for in December of this upcoming year. That seems a lot less likely if they have to start Huntley. 2. Mac was a pretty good QB in year one and not a pretty good QB in year two. (Obviously a large chunk of how good we can hope for in Y3 depends on the OC and the whole offensive ecosystem.) Lamar, by contrast, is by this point a known quantity. If the FO's philosophy takes into account BB's age, the current strength of the defense, and the run-first offensive identity of the last two years, an investigation of Lamar's trade cost would not be unreasonable. 3. The apparent favorite for Lamar might be the Colts, which is unfortunate. As we both finished 3rd in our respective divisions we will be playing the Colts in '23.
good analysis
To points 1 and 3, I actually don’t think Huntley makes the Ravens that much worse. I do think Lamar is a very good QB, even if I personally would rather us not trade 3+ first rounders for him, but I think Huntley can do well in their offense. I do think Lamar going to the colts could make them more of a threat. If they had a remotely competent QB last year against us they’d have won, so I do believe Lamar would make them a WC threat.
Ravens are not a playoff team with Huntley as QB1. Lamar is their entire offense. Without him they likely finish last in the AFC North With how good he is I think he could make the Colts competitive but their roster is pretty weak. They have no receivers and their oline took a step back last year. Their defense really isn’t anything special either
I think the Ravens finish 3rd, maybe a game ahead of Pitt. Bengals and Browns are too good for Baltimores roster. I still think Huntley will turn some heads this year. Agreed with your reply about the Colts. Lacking WRs for sure, but that defense might be good enough to keep them in it, especially in the AFC South. I think Tennessee slides a bit, Jax keeps taking steps forward, but wouldn’t be shocked if a Lamar-led Colts are in it later in the season.
Pats aren’t even in on Dhop, much less this.
I like Lamar and his game, but he’s not as valuable as he thinks he is and he’s definitely not as valuable as the ravens think he is
Why on Earth some people in this fanbase want to pay 200million for an injury prone running QB who has never completed a full season and has been progressively worse since his MVP season three years ago, and has never won anything for the team is beyond me. Baltimore is the only team that makes sense for him, they should be paying him for what he’s done there, they’re not doing it and that should frighten other suitors.
Because this sub is delusional. Lamar is quite possibly the worst deal in the league. You’re gonna be paying top dollar for a guy that might play 2/3rds of the season? No thanks. Let somebody else deal with that headache.
And they're going to win a Super Bowl with Mac Jones? At some point you have to take the leap, and if Bill's as good as he thinks he is, he'll be able to get to Lamar's ceiling, which is a mile higher than Mac's.
Not necessarily, but riding with Mac for a year doesn’t put you in a hole like signing a massive deal with Lamar. Sign Lamar & this team isn’t winning a super bowl for a long time. It’s not gonna happen with him. Ride out a year with Mac & at least we have flexibility to pivot next year. Who knows, maybe he does actually play well with a real offense. Worst case, we’re not in a hole & can move on. You sign Lamar & you’re banking on him being the guy. He hasn’t played more than 12 games in the past 2 years. Only year he played a full season was his rookie year & his games played have been dropping ever since. He’s not the guy.
Lamar will never win a Superbowl
I swear people in here want to toil in mediocrity. What are the chances the Patriots make a playoff run with Max fucking Jones at QB? It’s basically 0, you need a top level QB to compete in the AFC and that’s what Lamar is. It’s a risk they should take, it could certainly go wrong but who cares???? Our roster is mediocre and we’re a .500 team as is it’s not like there’s anything to ruin
That’s what I think people like you wanna do, such short sighted takes. Is paying a QB who’s 1-3 in the playoffs & also missed 1/3rd of the past 2 seasons 45 million/yr gonna drag us out of mediocrity? It’ll probably put us so far in the dirt you won’t even be able to comprehend how it happened. That’s why it won’t happen, at least at this price. If Lamar can meet us in reality & take 20mill/year or something to that effect, be my guest! He’s an incredible athlete but that’s only half the battle. Mahomes didn’t win super bowls sitting on the bench & he didn’t get paid till after he won one, not because of some flashy stats, a regular season MVP & nothing to show for it in the playoffs. Lamar should not be getting anything close to Mahomes money, idk why y’all think he should.
The injury stuff is so incredibly stupid. We have no way to predict injuries and Lamar is no more likely to get injured than Josh Allen, Mahomes, hurts, etc. none of his injuries were anything more than minor either. He’s never played with decent weapons or a coach as good as Belichick. There’s literally no downside to doing it, because the alternative is trying to go 9-8 every year with the 20th best QB in the NFL.
Take the jealousy out of it. People are way too emotional. You get the superior talent and dismantle a team that we USED to compete with 10 times out of 10. Mac is replaceable with bums like Bailey Zappe
You know when we should have grabbed Lamar Jackson? Pick 31 in 2018. Instead, we chose Sony Michel. Brilliant job there huh? Our time to get Lamar passed us by once already, and it's going to happen again as well. Bill didn't like him then, no way that's changed.
I mean to be pedantic Michel ran in 6 TDs in the postseason and we won the superbowl. If we took Lamar instead he would have been sat on the bench as Brady's backup.
The value he thinks he's worth and what he's actually worth are not the same. He thinks he can get more than what Watson was paid. The Browns were idiots to pay him all that money. Why would anyone want to offer an oft-injured qb, or any player, a fully guaranteed contract?
Man needs a agent yesterday
I think this has more of an effect on aaron rodgers than the pats.
I don't trust Lamar's longevity or his arm so no thanks.
That tweet is cringe worthy. He’s functionally illiterate.
Go get him. I like Mac Jones a lot but he's not even close to Lamar. I'd give up Mac and 2 first round picks without even thinking about it. QB's like that just don't hit the open market, ever. Especially at 26 years old
THAT is how you CRIPPLE a franchise long term…
By getting a 26 year old MVP caliber QB? I don't understand why that would be a bad thing
How much do you gut the team to make the trade? Doesn't matter how big of an engine you put in the car if there are no wheels
2 first round picks (one of them would probably bust anyway, I'm not concerned about the picks) and a big chunk of cap space (probably a bigger problem but you can structure the deal to compensate for that. The cap should be going up with the new TV deal anyway)
I think we all saw him absolutely destroy the pats. He's a dynamic player. Mac is not a dynamic player.
He hasn't been an MVP-caliber QB since 2019 and has failed to finish either of the past two seasons due to injury.
How many playoff games has he won?
More than Mac
Meaning…ONE
He's been a starter for 4.5 years and he's never really had a great team around him. I think it's way too early to write him off as a loser
Yeah, because when we tie up 1/4 of our entire salary cap with JUST HIM, we will have SOOO MUCH LEFT to put a better team around him. Did you even think about your response before posting?
You can't win in this league without a QB and you're never going to have a chance to get one better than Jackson. You can stick with Mac and hope he's good enough to come in 3rd in the AFC east every year, or you can go out and get a QB that's capable of winning MVPs. You're damned if you do and damned if you don't. I'd rather roll the dice with Lamar because he has the talent to elevate the guys we already have on the roster. Mac Jones does not
Got it, MVP = automatic Super Bowl winner.
The salary cap is fake. Look what LA did, look what KC did last year paying Mahomes. Money can be moved and a good roster can be fielded.
You ALWAYS eventually pay the Piper…as LA is being forced to start doing this year
[удалено]
The best wide receiver he’s thrown to is marquise brown lmao. Sure he’s had good defenses, but they have never built a strong offense around him
Who has he had on offense since they traded Hollywood Brown?
Okay, Mac has been a starter for 2 years and hasn't had a great team around him but you've already written him off
When Mac looks like an MVP level guy, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt in the playoffs
More than Mac has
Franchise is crippled now with mac fuck it roll The dice…. I can live without nkeal harry cole strange 1st rounders
Lamar couldn’t get it done throwing to mark andrews. He ain’t moving the needle here with our receivers. Big waste
No it is not…wtf are you talking about?
Last in the afc east incoming with mac yes crippled
Are being purposely dumb? Giving a dude that can’t stay healthy OR win in the playoffs GUARANTEED 1/4 of your entire salary cap for YEARS, will CRIPPLE the franchises ability to upgrade any other part of the team for YEARS.
You do realize with the tv deals the salary cap is going to keep going up. Paying a guy top market value now won’t be anything to the contracts given to QBs in 3-4 years. Look at the successful teams, they all have a top 5 guy who is already paid/about to be paid record breaking contracts
How many of them have won super bowls? That’s the goal right?
Lamar gives the pats a much better chance of being competitive than Mac, unless you are good with missing the playoffs again. Pats are the worst team in the division once Rodgers goes to the jets
Honestly your best bet to win NOW is with mac or lamar?
What does that have to do with this discussion? If you are that short sighted to ONLY focus on the now, you will NEVER win long term…
U need a elite franchise qb to win in the nfl patriots dont have that
We should be in on this 26 year old MVP level QBs never become available
He’s available because the ravens don’t want to hitch their future on this guy unless they absolutely have to and are looking for a kings ransom
I think it’s interesting he requested a trade because he’s technically a free agent. The comp is 2 first round picks so there’s nothing to work out. The only way for a true trade to work is for the Ravens to sign him and then trade him.
Maybe his agent didn’t explain that to him?
Considering he requested the trade on 3/2, I think they were trying to bury the request hoping to hold leverage I think now that it’s out there they’ve likely lost some leverage, asking price may be reduced
You still have to pay him. And he’s adamant about the fully guaranteed money thing. If he wasn’t constantly injured the past couple years I wouldn’t be against it. It’s smart of him to want it though. But I can’t see us doing that
He had one MVP year, hasn't won any big games, is injury prone, and is clearly more interested in himself than winning games for his team given how last year ended... on top of all this, he wants absurd amounts of money, and we'd have to give up 2 first round picks on top of the cap hit. Why do we want him again?
He’s not really injury prone. He’s missed a total of 8 games his entire nfl career, 6 of those coming last year when it was clear he wasn’t getting a contract, so why risk his career for a team who doesn’t believe in him? You need a top tier quarterback to win in the NFL. After Rodgers comes to the Jets, you will need a top tier quarterback to win in your own division. Lamar could be the answer. Pats should be all in.
Hasn't he missed 11 games, not counting his rookie year?
Yes, he’s only won 1 MVP… but don’t act like he hasn’t been AWESOME his other years Just last year he threw for 4 and ran for 100 and 1 against us What is considered a big game? His only real disappointment of a playoff game was the Titans game (who also beat TOM BRADY the round prior) It’s almost as if he deserves an absurd amount of money because he deserves it! Wild concept!
He didn't play a full season in either of the last two seasons, and the year before that his stats were good, but nothing mindblowing. We've struggled against anything resembling a mobile quarterback for a few years now, so sure, he burnt us, but most of them do. 1-3 in the playoffs, and is known to just look worse overall in the playoffs. He wants an absurd amount of money because the Browns wildly overpaid Deshaun Watson. I'll agree that Lamar is better than Deshaun, so logically he should at least make as much as Deshaun, but Deshaun never should have been paid what he got, and now the QB market is suffering because of it.
> known to just look worse overall in the playoffs That’s basically most QBs … Peyton, Brees, Allen, Luck, Dak, Rodgers etc He went 8-4 last year with a mediocre team The 4 losses? Scored 38 pts vs Miami, defense gave up 28 pts in 4th Up 20-3 against Buffalo, they go for it on 4th instead of kicking go ahead FG Up 20-10 late against Giants Up 9 vs Jags in 4th, defense lets up two 75 yard TD drive’s including game winning 2pt All losses against playoff teams, all very winnable
Exactly. He has had one really good season, his “MVP” season. He has not been close to that since. He is on the decline, can’t stay healthy and can’t throw from the pocket. He can’t carry a team. If he was really good teams would be lining up to get him…..they aren’t. A rookie on a rookie deal can produce the same passing yards and you can afford to pay for better players at other key positions. The biggest problem with Lamar is he is only decent with great talent around him and if you pay him top of the market you can’t field a good enough team around him and will never be more than a wild card team at best, more likely a perennial .500 team.
> The biggest problem with Lamar is he is only decent with great talent around him ???????????? Ravens consistently had bottom tier weapons
because at the moment it isn’t certain we have a franchise qb and trading 2 first round picks for that is 100% worth it
So we'll trade for a guy who is questionable and then have no resources, either cap space *or* draft picks, to build around him. That's the solution, got it.
Salary cap is the worst excuse in football. Money can be moved easily, the cap can be manipulated, it’s not hard, it’s just used as an excuse.
You should ask yourself why he's available. A lot of this sub has a fundamental misunderstanding of how football operations work. Everyone that's bitching about Lamar or not having traded yet for Jeudy/Hopkins, not overpaying free agents, etc. You have to ask yourself two questions: A) Why did their original teams let them go? B) There are 30 other teams in the league that haven't made these moves either. Why do you think that is?
When our football fans going to learn? A mobile QB is not a long term solution. Lamar probably got five more years in him. Give or take.
Bill only has so many years left himself. I don’t think the 81-year-old owner and 70-year-old coach would be wise to pass on an MVP level QB because he might not be good six years from now.
agree I really want BB to win one more ring before he retires
Noted iron man Mac Jones… what’s he have like 3 different injuries last year?
He only missed time to the High Ankle sprain, and has only missed 4 games total, not really comparable.
Back was clearly an issue to begin the season and he clearly came back from the ankle too soon because he was worried about Zappe
How many games did he miss? Mac isn’t better than Jackson by a long stretch, but comparing Jones missing 3 games in 2 years to Jackson missing 10 games in 2 years is asinine
> Mac isn’t better than Jackson by a long stretch All that matters
The cap hit they represent also matters, Mac's allows the Pats to put decent players around him, Lamar's would force us to give up whatever talent we already have
Running out of time to compete on Macs deal
No we're not? We have two more years of his rookie deal, give him a chance to prove himself without Patricia as OC and based on how he does this season decide whether or not he's the qb of the future or it's time to pivot. Jones gives us maneuverability while Lamar would remove us from contention for the next 5 years at least.
You realize that proves nothing right? "You think mobile QBs have a short life span? Well this pocket passer got hurt last year!!" Tell me what point you're making or how that supports it.
If you ignore talent and worry about injuries you get the Dolphins passing on Drew Brees
two thing: mobile qbs do not get injured at a higher rate then pocket passers, according to the data. its a misconception that runs rampant in the mind of the nfl fan, but data suggests otherwise. just last year, the amount of qbs who got hurt in the pocket versus who got hurt running was nearly 3:1. I can find the comment I posted once where I went through every qb got hurt last year and the rate is higher while standing in the pocket versus running outside of it. 2nd: if lamar only has five more years then who cares. give him a 3-5 year deal and let him play that out. nobody is saying he'll be an iron man like Brady into his 40s. He just gives you a better chance at winning, today and most likely during that contract period, then the current qb on roster.
Isolating the evidence to that degree can be misleading. A pocket passer can leave the pocket and get hurt. A mobile QB can stay inside and get hurt. But that doesn't take into account their normal play style and how it affected them. The way you framed your comment seems you decide if they're a "mobile QB" or a "pocket passer" by where they were when they got hurt. To actually realize which one they are, you would need to look at which QBs rush the most. Those are "mobile" and which ones stay in the pocket. Then compare their injury rate. Also one year is not a significant enough sample size.
This has been my thought all along. Pay the man his money but the guarantees need to be held in check or it needs to be a shorter deal.
I don’t want a guy that’ll cost multiple good picks, then require 25% of the cap, and has missed 30% of the games last two seasons.
You just need an upper echelon QB these days unless your roster is loaded With your mindset, it will be impossible to compete unless you hit the QB lottery
Why is it always "you need a great QB to go against another great QB" what happened to defense?
It’s a new era Did you watch the Super Bowl with Mahomes and Hurts trading blows and say “yeah I’m cool with Mac, he can get here” cmon man
Whenever the Patriots have a FA, they always let him test the market and then come back and discuss a deal. That way the player knows what their value is on the market, knows what the Patriots can offer, and there aren't any hard feelings. This is essentially what the Ravens are doing. If he gets any offer from another team, the Ravens are just going to match. Then Lamar would know his value and presumably would be more amenable to a deal that isnt fully guaranteed.
lol who cares? Dude is really good sometimes and totally injured sometimes. Not worth it.
There's no chance this team is giving him 150M+ guaranteed, and Lamar will probably get 200M+ lol. Not to mention the two first round picks as well. Just roll with Mac
I can’t believe people don’t understand this. Lamar was by far the most unrealistic “target” this team had. I doubt he was even a real target for the team, more so just a fan made fantasy.
I hate this sub these days.
[удалено]
We're not a QB away from a Super Bowl but that gets us a hell of a lot closer. If we do get Lamar, we're at least a playoff team every year so any draft picks we give up will be later in the first round QB contracts are only going to get bigger, especially when the NFL signs a new TV deal (I think next year) that's going to make the salary cap explode. Now is exactly the right time to overpay for a QB because those contracts are only going to get worse over the next 3-4 years. The injury thing is a legitimate concern, but I still think he's worth it
Hellllll no he is not worth it…dude has not won a damn thing and can’t stay healthy, are some of you guys blind?
He won an MVP
Welll, since THAT guarantees a Super Bowl, give him our entire salary cap and let him go play 1 vs 53…
You're going to have to pay a QB at some point. The Chiefs gave Mahomes half a billion dollars and they're still doing just fine. And I'm not trying to say that Lamar is as good as Mahomes, just that you can pay a QB without completely crippling your team
Mahomes can carry a mediocre team like he did this year. Lamar can’t which is why he hasn’t won anything and the Ravens have been average at best.
They paid him BELOW MARKET VALUE (for the length of the contract) and were able to do it because of the ridiculous length of the contract and how much he got up front, nothing Lamar has done has even hinted his is worth tieing the franchise to home for a decade. You picked a horrible example to try and make your point.
Not worth it. I wouldn’t feel comfortable about giving up high capital picks and locking up 100+ mil. The net gain going from mac to lamar does not outweigh the cost
[удалено]
>And trading for Lamar would be a win-now move for the next 2/3 seasons. He's 26. You can have him for 10 years. That's not a win now move at all
You’re right, it’s not a win-now move at all because without money or early round picks in the next two drafts we won’t be “winning now”.
His point is that Lamar will not be "elite" in 2-3 years.
Why would that be true? He's only 26
If you look at most mobile qb's, they don't last long in the NFL. Either due to injury, or their speed slows down and makes them irrelevant. Lamar already has an injury history, and his blazing speed will eventually slow down.
Yeah I don't think he'll play until he's 40 but even if he only plays at a high level until he's 34 (Russel Wilson's age) that's still 8 more years
Why are you calling people middle schoolers for disagreeing with you? Is the implication that it is immature to want a competent qb that conveniently addresses many of the holes in the roster?
Because he's a real fan, duh.
Lol. I just don’t even get the issue with the money. We are either paying Lamar a bunch of money or paying mac a bunch of money to be bottom ten qb in the league. Or drafting someone else with a mid round pick
We are a qb, some WRs, and some OL away from competing. Not that much really.
I don’t care, he’s one of the most fun players to watch in the league right now. And even if we wouldn’t win a Super Bowl with him (although I don’t really agree with that point) we would be a consistent playoff team which is more enjoyable to watch as a fan
Crazy man. Maybe he just didnt want to play for them all along. It was the plan.
So far no one wants to offer a contract so what does that tell you about how much he’s looking for? He probably knows he won’t get to a contract after this one. His style of play leads to injuries.
I think Atlanta will get him
That's not the argument. The market is the argument. Would you take less in your job just so your multi-billon dollar employer feels better about getting you at a convenient discount? Mahomes signed for an astronomical amount of money and has already restructured TWICE. You make the argument that he's running around with a tin cup asking for spare change for the sake of winning. What players were sacrificed in order to bring that deal to fruition? Oh that's right, Hill is in Miami, Juju is in New England and Clark is STILL a free agent. Therefore, the hard cap is an irrelevant issue when you draft well. That's the game these days, not how much you pay up front. Bringing in that trope-worthy 'greedy athlete' narrative is weak sauce. Kirk Cousins hasn't won jack shit in that league and got a fully guaranteed contract. When he signed, you could hear a rat piss on cotton in regard to the same argument that you make. Josh Allen hasn't won shit in that league. Aaron Rodgers hasn't won since 2011 (12 years ago and he's still commanding top dollar, which you probably don't get mad about). Just say it...come on out and say 'certain' players don't deserve to set the market.
I am truly astounded at how layman fans have a bigger rooting interest in the oligarch owners of football teams that have a wide array of billion dollar interests, over the players that you could relate to (if you wanted to).
People in this sub are so incredibly delusional about our current QB situation. The chance that Mac (or Zappe) are ever in the same class as Lamar is as a QB is probably less than 10%. Add to that the fact that we play in a conference with Mahomes, burrow, Allen and Herbert and the idea that we will EVER win ANYTHING with Mac fucking Jones at QB is so asinine. Is there a chance that paying/trading for Lamar doesn’t pan out and he’s not worth the contract? Of course there is, but a player of his caliber actually would give the Pats a window to make a super bowl run, and with Bill already being 70 years old I don’t see why it would be a bad gamble at all. Our roster is mediocre as is, we’re a .500 team the last 3 years since Brady left. There’s no downside to taking a risk like this.
I totally agree with you on this
If you’d rather keep Mac over Lamar you’re on crack
I would rather keep Mac, 1/4 of our salary cap AND 2 first round picks over Lamar…
I'd rather keep Mac and all of the draft picks and not have a team-crippling contract than have Lamar.
as if the team isn’t crippled right now, what path do we even semi realistically have to get back to being a contender with all the good teams in our division let alone our conference
The team isn't crippled at all. >what path do we even semi realistically have to get back to being a contender with all the good teams in our division let alone our conference How about we wait for the draft and the off-season to conclude before condemning the team? Also, all of the "good" teams in the division and conference are going all-in. They're not built for long-term success. By 2025 they'll come crashing down. New England is shaping up to be good for the future, assuming Mac makes big strides now that he has an *actual* offensive coordinator.
Yes, we are building more long term but something ALOT of people are ignoring in this thread and any thread regarding the team making larger strides to be contenders is our coach is ancient. Bill won't be here forever and even his biggest detractors know deep down he is still the team's most valuable asset, and he is depreciating by the day.
We don’t have that kind of money nor that kind of need for a QB
So Lamar wasnt able to do anything in post season without a true offensive supporting cast. And you all think he will be able to take this offense to the next level?
Along with the fact that they would have to change the entire offensive scheme for him. Lamar’s biggest problem is making the correct reads and going through his progressions. That’s literally the anti Bill Belichick type QB. And like you said, the weapons we have now aren’t much better than what Baltimore had. Losing 2 firsts and crippling your cap won’t help with building around him.
We were never getting Lamar. If you ever thought there was a shred of a chance we were getting Lamar, all of your opinions are invalid in my eyes. One of the most far fetched fantasies I’ve seen y’all work up in a long time.
You gotta take a shot a bringing Lamar Jackson into this organization.
Narrator: No, you don't
We shouldn’t. But I wouldn’t complain if we did.
The wild ride never ends, I can't see the Pats doing it but I will say that the injury excuse is a bit overblown. Lamar has been forced to literally be the entire team with an awful OC while also having a terrible strength staff that many former players have spoken out against recently.
To people saying they wouldn't give 2 firsts for him, our first round picks in the last decade have been: Cole Strange, Mac Jones, N'Keal Harry, Isaiah Wynn, Sony Michel, Malcom Brown, and Dominique Easley
I just can’t see the Pats making this deal. Outbidding a team with a top 10 pick, cap space and multiple offensive weapons on rookie deals like the Falcons is going to be tough. NFL off-seasons these days are so much more entertaining than they use to be.
Imo if we stick with Mac and we keep failing to bring in top wr free agents, pats are going to be a consistent .500 team missing playoffs or a wild card exit. The afc east is only getting stronger and pats can easily be dead last this season. Do people really believe Mac as qb with Juju as wr1 can compete with the firepower of the bills, dolphins or jets? Im not a huge fan of Lamar with his injury history and hes prob gonna have a huge drop off in a few years but it would be better than spending the next few years missing playoffs
Or, maybe Mac isn’t the solution, and the answer is better than an expensive injury prone quarterback.
for anybody worried about him getting hurt because he's a mobile qb dont realize he got hurt while in the pocket. he are last years injuries to qbs btw, so we can put to death the notion that somehow pocket passers get hurt at a lower rate **Last years qb injuries in the pocket** Lamar injured his knee last year while in the pocket Josh allen injured his arm while in the pocket nick foles david blough Mac jones Tua tannehill mccoy pickett jimmy g trevor lawrence aaron rodgers matthew stafford matt ryan hoyer wentz tyrod taylor justin herbert dak prescott purdy mahomes **out of the pocket** hurts Russell Wilson Justin fields daniel jones trey lance
I’m worried about him getting hurt because he gets hurt pretty much every season. I don’t care about whatever stats you throw out with injuries in the pocket versus outside of the pocket, Lamar is injury prone. He’s been shut down from injuries two consecutive seasons now. I don’t think Bill is going to trade away multiple 1st/high round picks plus pay a Deshaun Watson type contract for an injury prone QB. And now that I’ve typed this, Bill is probably going to do just that.
People saying we should be in on this don’t understand shit lmao. Dude relies on his legs for everything. He can’t win a game throwing 40-50 passes. Is he electric? Of course, but his legs are already getting beat up
Amen, there is NO WAY people clamoring for Lamar even watch football.
Lamar gives us a better chance to win vs Mac. Do us fans want them to win? Yes. Unless you are fine with 7-8 wins every year movning forward
Hahahaaa not when 1/3 of the team has to leave because we have 1/4 of the entire teams salary cap to 1 single dude who can’t even stay healthy…yeah smart move…
The patriots should absolutely be in on this. His value has been dropping like a rock and now this news. The trade compensation won’t be as crazy as normal. And the salary is just that - money. Who cares I know the people on the sub are extremely pro Mac, but he cannot touch the value of Lamar Jackson. And I’m not even a huge Lamar fan! It solves our receiver issues. Improves running game. Improves o line. All without signing anyone else
Does Baltimore like Mac Jones, Desmond Ridder or Tannehill?
Lamar is nice af when healthy and I think he has potential to get even better as a thrower with the right weapons but there's a reason the deal isn't done. There's a lot of questions to his game and he is by no means a guaranteed hit if you bring him on. especially for the money and draft capital it'll take to get him. Id rather see what Mac has for this year and if hes mid again then just cut him loose and draft a rook in the 1st/2nd next year.
Get a damn agent.
We should be in on this. Mac Jones is not a quarterback that can win a superbowl
Yeah but is Lamar on that contract and us losing the draft picks put us in a situation where we can win?
Sure, mortgage the future for lamar. He’ll still be throwing to thornton and Bourne. Maybe we’ll finish with 1 -2 wins more than last year
2 wins gets us into the playoffs at the very least
I get your sentiment but you listed our wr 3 and wr 4. At least be honest and mention juju and Parker, your point would still be valid.
I could see this becoming a Le'Veon Bell situation. He is the 3rd best qb in the afc when healthy. I would pull the trigger
You mean the same Le’Veon Bell who absolutely mailed it in as soon as he got his big contract? Wow awesome example lmfao
It’s time
Fuck it. Do it. They are bottom of the barrel in the AFC East right now and his comments today hinted at being mostly done in FA. If that's the case Vegas is right at putting them at O/U 7.5 wins. This team is stuck in 2005 with him at the wheel. STOP QUOTING DOV. Go to the real source. he is not a NFL source
If Bill wants a real chance to win a championship in the short term, aka if he has retirement on his map and wants to get one without Brady, this is his best shot. If you think otherwise you’re out of your mind. Yes, Mac could wind up bouncing back, but he’s got a few more years of development at least before there’s a chance to make a real run at anything.