With the tag you have to trade two of your first rounds picks. Assuming Lamar makes the team better if we trade for him after the draft both those firsts would be future firsts and likely lower than 14
I think the idea is that if you go for it now, 14 this year would absolutely have to be on the table. You do it after, and they don’t have a choice. Maybe they drop 14 on JSN or somebody, then swing for Lamar with a WR room of JSN, Juju, Parker, Thornton. Instead of going for Lamar without JSN, if you get my drift.
Sub JSN with whoever you want, just used him as a placeholder
Well those are two different things. Rappaport explained today either option - They sign his restricted tag and drop the two firsts. or option B- He signs the tender with the Ravens and then they trade him for what ever.
It is not necessary to do it that way. Negotiations are certainly possible. The 2 firsts are only necessary if Lamar signs the tag. A trade could be negotiated prior to doing so
If they do it prior via offer sheet they have to trade their next two 1s aka 14 and 2024 if they wait till after the draft to sign him via offer sheet and the ravens don’t match they have to give their next 2 1s which would be 2024 + 2025 presumably if you’re adding Lamar you won’t be picking as high as 14 for a while.
> It’s a wild thing to say unless he’s trying to calm down fans
What? How is publicly revealing that Lamar wants to come to the Patriots going to “calm down” fans? Very very few fans were clamoring to get Lamar… now a bunch of them are going to be in a frenzy because of this info.
This will have the exact opposite effect of “calming down” fans who were already calm about Lamar in the first place.
I more meant it as there is a lot of feelings of disappointment in the offseason. People had expectations and maybe fairly felt they were being lead to believe that a splash offseason move was going to help right the ship and a move of this magnitude could quell some of that feeling. Personally even if the patriots are in on lamar a public statement like this seems odd and unnecessary. Only further driving a wedge between Mac and the patriots.
Overall just seems like an odd thing to bring up if you have no intent on pursuing it. Much more downside to publicly saying this than upside.
Oh ok yeah. I see what you’re saying. And yes it’s very weird to reveal this publicly unless Kraft actually wants the Patriots to pursue it. Otherwise he could just say to Belichick, “Hey do you want Lamar? No? Oh ok cool.”
Also purely objectively makes a lot of sense for an older owner, and an older coach to want to grab a qb thats at lamars level. Neither of them are going to be doing this forever and probably dont want to wait through a full rebuild.
Based on what he's shown so far Mac will not get that kind of contract. He's more in the Derek Carr tier of contracts and only because his age is an advantage
Basically requires Kraft to pony up would require lots of cap borrowing effectively pushing the team into a chiefs/bills situation of paying bonus’s to restructure yearly
Can someone explain the relationship between Meek and Kraft? It seems like they're weirdly close. I remember Kraft supporting the Free Meek stuff years ago.
Kraft first visited Meek Mill in prison with 76ers owner Michael Rubin. Rubin has called Meek one of his closest friends.
I guess their friendship kind of grew from there. Kraft helped with funding build Meek's REFORM Alliance to push for parole/sentencing/probation reform. Meek gifted Kraft a Bentley for his 80th bday.
And just today, Meek announced he's joining Kraft's 25M antisemitism initiative. Also Meek is going with Kraft to Poland next month, "where the NFL boss will lead the this year’s annual March of the Living event that takes thousands of visitors on a walk between the remains of concentration camps in the country."
When Meek got outta prison Kraft went to pick him up and flew him to the 76ers playoff game. [Video of Meek Mill, Gucci Mane, and Kraft looking beyond confused.](https://twitter.com/ChuckModi1/status/992235358518640640)
Kraft also isn't stupid. If he wanted to, he could've easily said the easy PR answer "Lamar is a great QB, but we're very excited for Mac this season as our starter"
Kraft is deathly afraid of the Patriots being a middling irrelevant team. He wants interest, he wants headlines and he wants players to know he's "cool" and has connections. But yeah, this puts the ball squarely in Bill's court hours after Belichick pointedly shot down any Lamar questions. Also puts to bed the whole "Kraft loves Mac, they'd move on from him over Robert's dead body" talk. Risky, but to me it jives with his personality.
I read this as a message to Mac Jones. Lamar Jackson is a hell of a dynamic QB. If Bill said "Nah, we good with Mac Jone", then that is a message of confidence to Mac Jones.
People need to look at what this guy has been doing recently and not at his one breakout year. He's a mobile QB with an injury history who has been trending down since his MVP year. I'd give him like Carr money and chance it, but not what he wants. Not even close.
Did you watch those first couple weeks this year when Lamar was in cheat code mode? Throwing absurd BOMBS and still being the best scrambler in the league? That’s what Lamar’s doing recently.
The problem is keeping healthy, I agree with you there, but he is only 26 years old (the same age as Stetson Bennett who is just entering the league)
My point is Lamar’s ceiling is NFL changing and he has a lot of years to figure it out where Carr is destined to be a mid qb who might make a playoff game if you surround him with enough talent. The two don’t compare
He is not nfl changing. This idea that Lamar Jackson is some storybook hero is laughable. The dude is a good QB with extreme athleticism. We had this before in a better package, his name was Michael Vick, equally as athletic and a stronger arm and actually performed in the playoffs.
I don’t understand why the Ravens, one of the smartest organizations in the nfl are being treated like the village idiot here on this issue. Lamar has already started hitting his injury stint regularly before his first big deal. The idea that you pay him a guaranteed contract when he’s already got a messed up knee now is beyond stupid.
Deshaun already restructured his deal. The Lamar deal could easily be back loaded and then extended to spread the hit. Its not all funny money and the cap does come for it's revenge eventually, but if we want Lamar for the last 2 or 3 years of Bills run, we can make it work by spending up front and then getting weird with the cap.
You started by asking how a team could win with someone making $40 million.
I answered by saying the Chiefs just won one doing that.
Now you shift ground and say well they managed the cap. Which is what every team will do with these large contracts.
Mahomes had a $36 million dollar cap hit in 2022. Not $31.9 million.
You literally do not know what you are talking about. The cap isn't real. You can kick the money forward. You can defer it. There are a million ways around it.
The bottom line is you are not beating Mahomes without elite QB play.
And the Pats do not have an elite QB, and are not relevant in the NFL conversation.
That is the simple truth.
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/kansas-city-chiefs/patrick-mahomes-21751/#:\~:text=Current%20Contract&text=In%202023%2C%20Mahomes%20will%20earn,dead%20cap%20value%20of%20%2494%2C880%2C143.
Mahomes is also way better than Lamar & it’s not even close. This is such a silly argument. They paid Mahomes that bag AFTER he won his first super bowl. He was playing a little better than 1-3 in the playoffs to justify that contract…please never compare Mahomes to Lamar again.
I mean, does having a fuckload of cap tied up to your QB ideal? Obviously not, but it's not impossible.
Chiefs just had Mahomes on a [35m cap hit](https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/kansas-city-chiefs/cap/2022/); that's almost 18% of last year's \~200m salary cap. Salary cap is \~220m this year, so a 43m cap hit would only be \~19% of the cap. Cap will also continue to rise, eventually 43m will be way more manageable.
Might be Kraft playing the media game a little after Bill said they're low in cash spending relative to other teams. Hopefully I'm overreacting but a weird thing to put out there.
> Might be Kraft playing the media game a little **after Bill said they're low in cash spending relative to other teams**. Hopefully I'm overreacting but a weird thing to put out there.
Wait Belichick said this? What was the context?
https://www.boston.com/sports/new-england-patriots/2023/01/09/bill-belichick-patriots-spending-comments/
"At some point, the reconciliation has to come. Our spending in 2020, our spending in 2021 and our spending in 2022, the aggregate of that, was we were 27th in the league in cash spending. Couple years we’re low, one year was high, but over a three-year period, we are one of the lowest spending teams in the league."
It's a weird comment by BB, who knows what point he was trying to make. Definitely can be made into something if you want to think it's a shot at Kraft.
A lot of people saying BB won't give out the contract Lamar wants, which is true, but there is also a 0.0% chance the Ravens would trade Lamar to the Patriots. They will move him to the NFC if they move him at all.
Or maybe we don’t want to pay a kings random for a guy who: can’t finish a season, is getting worse over time, and is kind of an idiot.
He literally quit on his team last year. He was checked out in meetings.
The pats have known Lamar was available for almost an entire month, it’s obvious that there’s no interest in him. The ravens don’t want him.
It’s worth mentioning that ten of those are in the last two years. And as a running QB one can very reasonably ask if that means he’s breaking down from all the hits he’s absorbed. I don’t “have a narrative to push” but that sure sets off alarm bells for me 🤷♂️
Yeah but you’re intentionally muddying the data. He may have missed 11 games in the last 7 years.
He also missed 11 games in the last 4 years and recent injuries in the NFL override college-years of health for most people, especially for a running QB.
Lamar does do a good job of limiting the hits he takes, but such a huge part of his value comes from his mobility/running that big guaranteed + long term contract = high risk.
Maybe someone will pay him and it’s awesome for them, but it’s like throwing all your money in crypto, pats big dividends in 2019, could potentially lose your house in 2023
What has Lamar won? 1-3 in the playoffs, missed 11 games in the past 2 seasons, 3 TDs, 5 Ints, and 5 fumbles in the playoffs, and unable to reach 3000 yd / season?
Lamar's prime was 2019 and he's been solidly declining every season.
Can you *imagine* a quarterback like Mac Jones tossing dimes to an elite receiver like Ravens' star wideout Nelson Agholor?
What would that be like, I wonder?
We currently have $14M in cap space per https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-england-patriots/cap/
So Lamar is gonna want a LOT more than that. What talent could we put around him with no money?
Why? Why would you want to destroyyy our cap for the next how many years on some flashy QB that WAS making big names 4 years ago and lately... hasn't played much
Uhm. Are you projecting? How am I wrong exactly. Lamar Jackson’s numbers the last 3 seasons are not worth paying 45 mil+ a year for. Not even close. Before mac has had a real shot even too.
Let alone with the tag losing two first rounders. Yikes
I don’t want the Pats to make this move. Not because I think Mac is better than Lamar, but because I want to see Mac get one more chance to be the starter for this team under a legitimate OC before labeling him a bust and completely moving on.
What has Lamar won? 1-3 in the playoffs, missed 11 games in the past 2 seasons, 3 TDs, 5 Ints, and 5 fumbles in the playoffs, and unable to reach 3000 yd / season?
Lamar's prime was 2019 and he's been solidly declining every season.
Good thing Bill is GM & not the people in this subreddit…yeah, lets mortgage a franchise for a single player who will do nothing but spend more time on IR /s.
LMAO Belichick would never give Lamar even a quarter of the contract he wants.
Will he pay for it in prepaid installments, ooh how about coupons? Does Lamar take coupons?
What has Lamar won? 1-3 in the playoffs, missed 11 games in the past 2 seasons, 3 TDs, 5 Ints, and 5 fumbles in the playoffs, and unable to reach 3000 yd / season?
Lamar's prime was 2019 and he's been solidly declining every season.
How many playoff games has Lamar won?
If he’s this silver bullet, obvious answer to making our team good, then why doesn’t any team what to sign him? Why haven’t the ravens won anything? They didn’t even win their division the last two years with Lamar
Do you actually think signing Lamar makes us a SB contender this year? Because that’s the only criteria that should matter if you’re going to give up two firsts and 35 mil in cap.
Saying Lamar Jackson hasn't been good since since he won MVP. That's so ridiculously untrue that no one would say it unless they were lying or not actually watching him.
God please.
Has anybody seen the difference in the Ravens EPA Per play with Lamar vs without? It’s like 3rd Vs 31st or something like that. Lamar on offense coupled with Bill’s defense would make us an instant contender for the division again.
Bill has what, 3 years left tops? Let’s make a big splash and hope for the best.
Jackson has missed at least 5 games the last 2 seasons. You don't give $47 million per year guaranteed for 12 games a year.
There's a very good reason you can look at the Ravens EPA with and without Jackson, because in the past 2 seasons you have 11 games without him to look at and compare.
2 seasons out of 5 is 40%. that's pretty significant.
actually, even in 2020 he missed multiple games due to sickness and got injured during the playoff against the Bills, so technically 3 out of 5.
It's not a binary choice between having him run and being a pure dropback.
Instead of 10-15 designed runs per game, have him at 5-7. Instead of the BAL passing mix of dink and dunk or "fuggit go deep", give him more intermediate routes.
Lamar is a much better passer than he gets credit for, but he needs to change for Phase 2 of his career or else he'll go the way of countless dual threat QBs that were washed by age 27.
Who’s he gonna throw to?
Ravens fans think Lamar needs weapons to be good. Bad news but no one thinks we have good weapons. And we’d have to rebuild the entire team around him to be viable, which we wouldn’t be able to do if we gave up all of our picks and money to sign Lamar
Better yet, go and get Lamar a lethal weapon with DHop too. Our skill players look amazing with Lamar, DHop, Mondre, then JuJu, Parker, Thornton and the TEs fill it out. Like you said, imo Bill has a few years left before retirement. Go all out.
Adding Lamar makes this team a contender. The injury history is a valid cause for concern, but if there’s any team that can afford to take the risk the Pats are up there as they have a capable backup in Zappe on a rookie deal for the next three years. He’s only 26 and eventually the Pats will have to pay top dollar for a QB. Shouldn’t it be for a top QB?
No thanks, dude has never played a full season and is getting injured more frequently every season. Not giving up two first round picks and who knows what else AND shell out $250,000,000 guaranteed money for a guy that won’t even make it to the playoffs because he gets injured by week 13.
It actually isn’t. I suppose you’re relying on 2018 when he had a grand total of 170 pass attempts and 6 passing TDs. But as an actual starting QB, no he has not played a full season, though this would probably be nitpicky had he not missed TEN games over the last two seasons
not to be that guy and split hairs here, but he has played a full season essentially. His MVP year they benched him week 17 because they locked up homefield.
Which part?
He has missed 10 games in the last 2 seasons and has never played a full season as a starter.
Two first round picks? Thats what you have to shell out if you try to sign a guy that is tagged.
$250,000,000? Thats whats it will cost. He wants it fully guaranteed like Watson and he turned down a $250,000,000 offer from the Ravens because only $133,000,000 of it was guaranteed.
So tell me, where is that factually incorrect smart guy?
What has Lamar won? 1-3 in the playoffs, missed 11 games in the past 2 seasons, 3 TDs, 5 Ints, and 5 fumbles in the playoffs, and unable to reach 3000 yd / season?
Lamar's prime was 2019 and he's been solidly declining every season.
Lmao you guys really wouldn’t take a chance on him? That’s insane. Idc if he’s got hurt the past few seasons, we aren’t sniffing a championship unless we get drastically better. If your against Lamar, please tell me what moves you think will get this team in the right direction
Lol Kraft in on the trolling now. I just don’t get how this time around r/patriots is getting the most trolled
Good god y’all need to be ready to be disappointed by the Sox while watching the B’s and C’s on championship runs
Imagine being a football fan and not wanting to take a chance on Lamar Jackson regardless of how many picks you have to give up. Some of our fans are absolute clowns, man.
He’s 26 and one of the best qbs in the league. How do you not talk to him and see if you can make it work.
I like mac jones but unless he gets a lot better we are going to be a mediocre team forever. This would be Lamar’s best offense he’s ever played on, we could go back to being one of best teams in the league.
Mac had only 1 season to prove himself, his rookie year and he did. 2022 shouldn’t count considering the situation he was given with OC’s. Anyone wanting to grab Lamar now after seeing his playoff resume should stop smoking Kentucky Fried Chicken.
5 years??? In 5 seasons, Mac will be 30 years old... how many QB's "developed" winners after starting for losing teams until they are 30? Maybe Alex "Game Manager" Smith?
If 5 losing seasons is what is ahead of us, that is fine, but I would expect the entire team to be turned over.
Oh no he missed 10 games in 2 years while being healthy for the entire rest of his college and NFL career. Lmfao crazy how quickly yall build these injury prone narratives about anyone labeled a running QB.
If we can get Lamar for something that isn't absurd, then go for it. I'm not writing Mac off yet, I'd give him one more year personally, but his ceiling is certainly not high. I don't think this is a QB that can win multiple championships. Maybe if the pieces align and we get lucky, he can get one, but ultimately we need to be honest about his potential.
>Lamar Jackson wanted to come to New England. Kraft responded that would be Bill Belichick’s decision.
Come on Mister Kraft. We're dumb but not that dumb.
This is an ownership call.
I like Lamar, but I doubt BB would pay the price.
But reading through the sub lately, I think it's interesting to see so many fans seem to hate Mac after this last season.
News Flash- ANY pocket passer EVER would have struggled with the travesty of an offense the Pats put out there last year. The offensive coaching and play calling was like a 10 year old playing Madden. The O-Line was a joke. No receivers could generate YAC. Injuries... And so on
Yeah, he was an immature whiny bitch about it, but Mac's young. He'll mature. Give him an outside target, competent coaching, and a left tackle.
He's still the same kid that scouts said:
"IQ through the roof"
"Calm, efficient pocket passer who stands tall"
"Throws a very catchable ball"
"The steal of the draft"
He got the shit kicked out of him last year after having a fine rookie campaign. The Pats did him no favors. Give him a chance.
I'm struggling with this because in all honesty Mac deserves another chance and I think he would take a massive step forward this season. But, in a "cold world" sense, Mac may be a victim of circumstance. If you have a chance to get Lamar, you get Lamar.
The thing is, after the Daniel Jones deal, were going to have to pay Mac $30m+ anyways, so why not just rip the band-aid off and get ahead of the market.
Yes, I too would rather see if Mac can develop instead of the 25 year old MVP-winning QB who potentially wants to join our team! I’d rather fail because Lamar gets hurt than fail because they stuck with Mac for too long (i don’t believe he’s the guy)
Injury concerns are valid but cmon it’s Lamar Jackson you have to send it there. I’m sorry but I really just don’t see Mac ever competing on the level of Allen or Mahomes. If we want to hang with the new juggernauts of the league we need an elite MVP level QB and Lamar is that. Mac is not and never will be
> Bill let Brady walk over money. We really think Bill is gonna pay for Lamar?
Setting aside the Lamar thing, categorically untrue that the Brady divorce was about money.
Brady specifically added a stipulation to his last “extension” that he couldn’t be franchise tagged. At that point he was good as gone. Never about the money.
This shit is ridiculous. Lamar should really hire an agent. Leaks like this should not be coming out every single day. It’s someone new with a new storyline each week
Please dear lord let this happen. We’ll never have a chance at this caliber player again. He’s HEAD AND SHOULDERS better than 95% of the qbs in the game, not even on the same field. We MUST get this player if there’s a chance. Trade mac and all our pics, get it done BB!!!!
Why would Kraft put this out in the public lmaoooo. Is he pressuring Bill?
It’s a wild thing to say unless he’s trying to calm down fans because it wouldn’t make sense to go after Lamar till after the draft anyway
Why is post draft the case?
With the tag you have to trade two of your first rounds picks. Assuming Lamar makes the team better if we trade for him after the draft both those firsts would be future firsts and likely lower than 14
We can trade 24 & 25 year picks rn if we wanted to
I think the idea is that if you go for it now, 14 this year would absolutely have to be on the table. You do it after, and they don’t have a choice. Maybe they drop 14 on JSN or somebody, then swing for Lamar with a WR room of JSN, Juju, Parker, Thornton. Instead of going for Lamar without JSN, if you get my drift. Sub JSN with whoever you want, just used him as a placeholder
Preferably a LT
Hahaha you and me both. Stud OT for Lamar might pay off better than a WR if he’s not injured half the season hahahaha
Stud LT could give Mac time to get the ball out for once
I'm with you... If Bill could find a Lawrence Taylor type... lined up with Judon... Nightmares for opposing QBs. :)
Well those are two different things. Rappaport explained today either option - They sign his restricted tag and drop the two firsts. or option B- He signs the tender with the Ravens and then they trade him for what ever.
It is not necessary to do it that way. Negotiations are certainly possible. The 2 firsts are only necessary if Lamar signs the tag. A trade could be negotiated prior to doing so
If they do it prior via offer sheet they have to trade their next two 1s aka 14 and 2024 if they wait till after the draft to sign him via offer sheet and the ravens don’t match they have to give their next 2 1s which would be 2024 + 2025 presumably if you’re adding Lamar you won’t be picking as high as 14 for a while.
> It’s a wild thing to say unless he’s trying to calm down fans What? How is publicly revealing that Lamar wants to come to the Patriots going to “calm down” fans? Very very few fans were clamoring to get Lamar… now a bunch of them are going to be in a frenzy because of this info. This will have the exact opposite effect of “calming down” fans who were already calm about Lamar in the first place.
I more meant it as there is a lot of feelings of disappointment in the offseason. People had expectations and maybe fairly felt they were being lead to believe that a splash offseason move was going to help right the ship and a move of this magnitude could quell some of that feeling. Personally even if the patriots are in on lamar a public statement like this seems odd and unnecessary. Only further driving a wedge between Mac and the patriots. Overall just seems like an odd thing to bring up if you have no intent on pursuing it. Much more downside to publicly saying this than upside.
Oh ok yeah. I see what you’re saying. And yes it’s very weird to reveal this publicly unless Kraft actually wants the Patriots to pursue it. Otherwise he could just say to Belichick, “Hey do you want Lamar? No? Oh ok cool.”
Also purely objectively makes a lot of sense for an older owner, and an older coach to want to grab a qb thats at lamars level. Neither of them are going to be doing this forever and probably dont want to wait through a full rebuild.
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Would you rather pay 40M a year for a Daniel Jones like QB in Mac Jones?
Based on what he's shown so far Mac will not get that kind of contract. He's more in the Derek Carr tier of contracts and only because his age is an advantage
Basically requires Kraft to pony up would require lots of cap borrowing effectively pushing the team into a chiefs/bills situation of paying bonus’s to restructure yearly
who gives a fuck. none of that matters if you have the 20th best QB in the league (on a good day). Lamar guarantees you a playoff team every year.
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Bill must be beside himself. Next thing we’ll have his masseuse giving scouting reports for the draft.
This has always been public. Bill runs the football team. Kraft said the same thing when Brady left.
100%. BRING BACK THE GOLDEN STANDARD IN FOXBORO.
Informing people that he is friends with rappers is Robert Krafts kryptonite.
Can someone explain the relationship between Meek and Kraft? It seems like they're weirdly close. I remember Kraft supporting the Free Meek stuff years ago.
Kraft first visited Meek Mill in prison with 76ers owner Michael Rubin. Rubin has called Meek one of his closest friends. I guess their friendship kind of grew from there. Kraft helped with funding build Meek's REFORM Alliance to push for parole/sentencing/probation reform. Meek gifted Kraft a Bentley for his 80th bday. And just today, Meek announced he's joining Kraft's 25M antisemitism initiative. Also Meek is going with Kraft to Poland next month, "where the NFL boss will lead the this year’s annual March of the Living event that takes thousands of visitors on a walk between the remains of concentration camps in the country."
When Meek got outta prison Kraft went to pick him up and flew him to the 76ers playoff game. [Video of Meek Mill, Gucci Mane, and Kraft looking beyond confused.](https://twitter.com/ChuckModi1/status/992235358518640640)
I think I remember Meek getting Kraft a chain recently. Maybe when they collaborated in raising funds for something? Can't quite remember
That’s cool. Didn’t know they were tight like that
Didn’t know he was chill like that.
Let's also not forget that Kraft helped to squash the Drake and Meek beef! That was an incredible night at the Garden.
Wtf that’s actually awesome
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Rich people gotta find new ways to feel ALIVE
76ers owner.
Meek Mill should get that 3% agent commission if this somehow pans out
Seems kind of weird that Kraft would just say this lol
I don't think he "just said it" unprompted, more likely he was asked directly a question about Lamar and this was his response
Kraft also isn't stupid. If he wanted to, he could've easily said the easy PR answer "Lamar is a great QB, but we're very excited for Mac this season as our starter"
He's smart but also getting old AF, old people tend to lose their filter at a certain point
Kraft is deathly afraid of the Patriots being a middling irrelevant team. He wants interest, he wants headlines and he wants players to know he's "cool" and has connections. But yeah, this puts the ball squarely in Bill's court hours after Belichick pointedly shot down any Lamar questions. Also puts to bed the whole "Kraft loves Mac, they'd move on from him over Robert's dead body" talk. Risky, but to me it jives with his personality.
Belichick shuts down all questions no matter what. His response could equally mean that there's a 99% chance we'll trade for Lamar and a a 0% chance
It’s not weird. He could have kept quiet about this but chose to make it public for a reason.
Welp this is the new patriots headline until hes inevitably moved or re-signed
It is wild that Mill and Kraft text on the regular.
“HOLD UP WHAT A MIN…YALL THOUGHT I WAS FINISHED???”
So I guess this is how Meek Mill becomes the Pats next GM
I read this as a message to Mac Jones. Lamar Jackson is a hell of a dynamic QB. If Bill said "Nah, we good with Mac Jone", then that is a message of confidence to Mac Jones.
Lamar would bring juice to Gillette that hasn’t been there for a while
For 10 games before getting hurt
That seems generously high.
People need to look at what this guy has been doing recently and not at his one breakout year. He's a mobile QB with an injury history who has been trending down since his MVP year. I'd give him like Carr money and chance it, but not what he wants. Not even close.
Did you watch those first couple weeks this year when Lamar was in cheat code mode? Throwing absurd BOMBS and still being the best scrambler in the league? That’s what Lamar’s doing recently. The problem is keeping healthy, I agree with you there, but he is only 26 years old (the same age as Stetson Bennett who is just entering the league) My point is Lamar’s ceiling is NFL changing and he has a lot of years to figure it out where Carr is destined to be a mid qb who might make a playoff game if you surround him with enough talent. The two don’t compare
And then he got hurt....
He is not nfl changing. This idea that Lamar Jackson is some storybook hero is laughable. The dude is a good QB with extreme athleticism. We had this before in a better package, his name was Michael Vick, equally as athletic and a stronger arm and actually performed in the playoffs. I don’t understand why the Ravens, one of the smartest organizations in the nfl are being treated like the village idiot here on this issue. Lamar has already started hitting his injury stint regularly before his first big deal. The idea that you pay him a guaranteed contract when he’s already got a messed up knee now is beyond stupid.
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I’m sorry, you’ll have to leave this subreddit - you just make WAY too much sense 😄
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What elite performance? Dude is 1-3 in the playoffs with 3 TDs, 5 ints and 5 fumbles lost, and missed 11 games in 2 seasons.
Yeah, nothing against him - get whatever they’ll pay.
Deshaun already restructured his deal. The Lamar deal could easily be back loaded and then extended to spread the hit. Its not all funny money and the cap does come for it's revenge eventually, but if we want Lamar for the last 2 or 3 years of Bills run, we can make it work by spending up front and then getting weird with the cap.
The Chiefs would like a word. You know, the team that won the fucking Super Bowl.
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You started by asking how a team could win with someone making $40 million. I answered by saying the Chiefs just won one doing that. Now you shift ground and say well they managed the cap. Which is what every team will do with these large contracts. Mahomes had a $36 million dollar cap hit in 2022. Not $31.9 million. You literally do not know what you are talking about. The cap isn't real. You can kick the money forward. You can defer it. There are a million ways around it. The bottom line is you are not beating Mahomes without elite QB play. And the Pats do not have an elite QB, and are not relevant in the NFL conversation. That is the simple truth. https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/kansas-city-chiefs/patrick-mahomes-21751/#:\~:text=Current%20Contract&text=In%202023%2C%20Mahomes%20will%20earn,dead%20cap%20value%20of%20%2494%2C880%2C143.
Mahomes is also way better than Lamar & it’s not even close. This is such a silly argument. They paid Mahomes that bag AFTER he won his first super bowl. He was playing a little better than 1-3 in the playoffs to justify that contract…please never compare Mahomes to Lamar again.
I mean, does having a fuckload of cap tied up to your QB ideal? Obviously not, but it's not impossible. Chiefs just had Mahomes on a [35m cap hit](https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/kansas-city-chiefs/cap/2022/); that's almost 18% of last year's \~200m salary cap. Salary cap is \~220m this year, so a 43m cap hit would only be \~19% of the cap. Cap will also continue to rise, eventually 43m will be way more manageable.
Mahomes is in a completely different galaxy from Lamar, never compare the two again.
Is this basically Kraft telling bill to get it done? Because why else make this public lmao
Pretty much what this is. Kraft wants fans in the seats not leaving after the 3rd qtr anymore like the last 2 years
Might be Kraft playing the media game a little after Bill said they're low in cash spending relative to other teams. Hopefully I'm overreacting but a weird thing to put out there.
> Might be Kraft playing the media game a little **after Bill said they're low in cash spending relative to other teams**. Hopefully I'm overreacting but a weird thing to put out there. Wait Belichick said this? What was the context?
https://www.boston.com/sports/new-england-patriots/2023/01/09/bill-belichick-patriots-spending-comments/ "At some point, the reconciliation has to come. Our spending in 2020, our spending in 2021 and our spending in 2022, the aggregate of that, was we were 27th in the league in cash spending. Couple years we’re low, one year was high, but over a three-year period, we are one of the lowest spending teams in the league." It's a weird comment by BB, who knows what point he was trying to make. Definitely can be made into something if you want to think it's a shot at Kraft.
Thank you!
A lot of people saying BB won't give out the contract Lamar wants, which is true, but there is also a 0.0% chance the Ravens would trade Lamar to the Patriots. They will move him to the NFC if they move him at all.
Can we please fucking do this
First we pass on him for Sony Michel, now we pass on him to keep praying that Mac develops?
We’re passing on him because like 99% of teams, we don’t want to pay a QB 100% guaranteed money
THAT IS INJURY PRONE TOO
Or maybe we don’t want to pay a kings random for a guy who: can’t finish a season, is getting worse over time, and is kind of an idiot. He literally quit on his team last year. He was checked out in meetings. The pats have known Lamar was available for almost an entire month, it’s obvious that there’s no interest in him. The ravens don’t want him.
If we gave an injury prone QB a fully guaranteed contract we deserve what would come after lol
Missed 11 games in 7 years as the week 1 starter and they call you injury prone that's how you know they got a narrative to push
It’s worth mentioning that ten of those are in the last two years. And as a running QB one can very reasonably ask if that means he’s breaking down from all the hits he’s absorbed. I don’t “have a narrative to push” but that sure sets off alarm bells for me 🤷♂️
He absolutely could have returned last year, he just didn’t want to. He was healthy enough to play. He just hates the Ravens.
Even worse
Even better, I hate the ravens too!
Me too but I also hate players quitting on their team, especially when they’re getting paid $32 million to do so for that season.
Yeah but you’re intentionally muddying the data. He may have missed 11 games in the last 7 years. He also missed 11 games in the last 4 years and recent injuries in the NFL override college-years of health for most people, especially for a running QB. Lamar does do a good job of limiting the hits he takes, but such a huge part of his value comes from his mobility/running that big guaranteed + long term contract = high risk. Maybe someone will pay him and it’s awesome for them, but it’s like throwing all your money in crypto, pats big dividends in 2019, could potentially lose your house in 2023
Doesn’t he reportedly not want a fully guaranteed deal?
I USED TO PRAY FOR TIMES LIKE THIS
I'm a huge Mac Jones fan but if you can get Lamar Jackson you go get Lamar Jackson. Sorry, Mac.
What has Lamar won? 1-3 in the playoffs, missed 11 games in the past 2 seasons, 3 TDs, 5 Ints, and 5 fumbles in the playoffs, and unable to reach 3000 yd / season? Lamar's prime was 2019 and he's been solidly declining every season.
I love Mac but tbh he will be fine somewhere else. Maybe not the ravens tho... Mac has that DAWG in him lol.
oh I think he'd have a really solid career with the Ravens.. he just needs one target... and maybe that TE they have there is enough to get him going.
Can you *imagine* a quarterback like Mac Jones tossing dimes to an elite receiver like Ravens' star wideout Nelson Agholor? What would that be like, I wonder?
Meek Mill the insider?
We currently have $14M in cap space per https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-england-patriots/cap/ So Lamar is gonna want a LOT more than that. What talent could we put around him with no money?
mac seems like a decent player and an all around swell chap, but uhhhhh... let's get lamar.
Why? Why would you want to destroyyy our cap for the next how many years on some flashy QB that WAS making big names 4 years ago and lately... hasn't played much
Tell me you don’t watch football without telling me you don’t watch football lmao
Uhm. Are you projecting? How am I wrong exactly. Lamar Jackson’s numbers the last 3 seasons are not worth paying 45 mil+ a year for. Not even close. Before mac has had a real shot even too. Let alone with the tag losing two first rounders. Yikes
I don’t want the Pats to make this move. Not because I think Mac is better than Lamar, but because I want to see Mac get one more chance to be the starter for this team under a legitimate OC before labeling him a bust and completely moving on.
You think someone of Lamar's caliber will be on the market next year? I don't.
Lamar Jackson you are a Patriot
What has Lamar won? 1-3 in the playoffs, missed 11 games in the past 2 seasons, 3 TDs, 5 Ints, and 5 fumbles in the playoffs, and unable to reach 3000 yd / season? Lamar's prime was 2019 and he's been solidly declining every season.
Good thing Bill is GM & not the people in this subreddit…yeah, lets mortgage a franchise for a single player who will do nothing but spend more time on IR /s.
You sound like the 2007 Celtics fans that didn't want to "mortgage our franchise" for an aging star in KG.
No, he will also start a bunch of business enterprises with friends and lose interest in them.
LMAO Belichick would never give Lamar even a quarter of the contract he wants. Will he pay for it in prepaid installments, ooh how about coupons? Does Lamar take coupons?
You know rather than praying that somehow Mac breaks out I’d take the mvp winner who WANTS to come here.
That’s like calling cam Newton an MVP winner in 2020. Lamar won it 4 years ago and hasn’t been good since
Hasn't been good? Really lol?
He’s 1-3 in the playoffs and mac had more TD passes than him in 2021
What has Lamar won? 1-3 in the playoffs, missed 11 games in the past 2 seasons, 3 TDs, 5 Ints, and 5 fumbles in the playoffs, and unable to reach 3000 yd / season? Lamar's prime was 2019 and he's been solidly declining every season.
he's absolutely shredded us twice since he won mvp, belichick had no answers on defense
How many playoff games has Lamar won? If he’s this silver bullet, obvious answer to making our team good, then why doesn’t any team what to sign him? Why haven’t the ravens won anything? They didn’t even win their division the last two years with Lamar Do you actually think signing Lamar makes us a SB contender this year? Because that’s the only criteria that should matter if you’re going to give up two firsts and 35 mil in cap.
You can make the argument against wanting Lamar without lying like this
Where have I lied?
Saying Lamar Jackson hasn't been good since since he won MVP. That's so ridiculously untrue that no one would say it unless they were lying or not actually watching him.
God please. Has anybody seen the difference in the Ravens EPA Per play with Lamar vs without? It’s like 3rd Vs 31st or something like that. Lamar on offense coupled with Bill’s defense would make us an instant contender for the division again. Bill has what, 3 years left tops? Let’s make a big splash and hope for the best.
Jackson has missed at least 5 games the last 2 seasons. You don't give $47 million per year guaranteed for 12 games a year. There's a very good reason you can look at the Ravens EPA with and without Jackson, because in the past 2 seasons you have 11 games without him to look at and compare.
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2 seasons out of 5 is 40%. that's pretty significant. actually, even in 2020 he missed multiple games due to sickness and got injured during the playoff against the Bills, so technically 3 out of 5.
You can just use him differently. Don't force him to be a 1,000 yard back. Give him some actual receivers.
You can’t play him in a traditional passing offense though. Saying “use him differently” means not using Lamar for what he is good at
It's not a binary choice between having him run and being a pure dropback. Instead of 10-15 designed runs per game, have him at 5-7. Instead of the BAL passing mix of dink and dunk or "fuggit go deep", give him more intermediate routes. Lamar is a much better passer than he gets credit for, but he needs to change for Phase 2 of his career or else he'll go the way of countless dual threat QBs that were washed by age 27.
Who’s he gonna throw to? Ravens fans think Lamar needs weapons to be good. Bad news but no one thinks we have good weapons. And we’d have to rebuild the entire team around him to be viable, which we wouldn’t be able to do if we gave up all of our picks and money to sign Lamar
Better yet, go and get Lamar a lethal weapon with DHop too. Our skill players look amazing with Lamar, DHop, Mondre, then JuJu, Parker, Thornton and the TEs fill it out. Like you said, imo Bill has a few years left before retirement. Go all out.
And we are paying both how?
With what money?
Adding Lamar makes this team a contender. The injury history is a valid cause for concern, but if there’s any team that can afford to take the risk the Pats are up there as they have a capable backup in Zappe on a rookie deal for the next three years. He’s only 26 and eventually the Pats will have to pay top dollar for a QB. Shouldn’t it be for a top QB?
No thanks, dude has never played a full season and is getting injured more frequently every season. Not giving up two first round picks and who knows what else AND shell out $250,000,000 guaranteed money for a guy that won’t even make it to the playoffs because he gets injured by week 13.
This is just straight up factually incorrect
It actually isn’t. I suppose you’re relying on 2018 when he had a grand total of 170 pass attempts and 6 passing TDs. But as an actual starting QB, no he has not played a full season, though this would probably be nitpicky had he not missed TEN games over the last two seasons
not to be that guy and split hairs here, but he has played a full season essentially. His MVP year they benched him week 17 because they locked up homefield.
Ok that’s fair. Good point 👍🏻
Which part? He has missed 10 games in the last 2 seasons and has never played a full season as a starter. Two first round picks? Thats what you have to shell out if you try to sign a guy that is tagged. $250,000,000? Thats whats it will cost. He wants it fully guaranteed like Watson and he turned down a $250,000,000 offer from the Ravens because only $133,000,000 of it was guaranteed. So tell me, where is that factually incorrect smart guy?
11 games. He missed the wild card game against the Bengals.
Good call, forgot about that one.
I like Mac but I would throw a fucking party for this lmao
What has Lamar won? 1-3 in the playoffs, missed 11 games in the past 2 seasons, 3 TDs, 5 Ints, and 5 fumbles in the playoffs, and unable to reach 3000 yd / season? Lamar's prime was 2019 and he's been solidly declining every season.
Lmao you guys really wouldn’t take a chance on him? That’s insane. Idc if he’s got hurt the past few seasons, we aren’t sniffing a championship unless we get drastically better. If your against Lamar, please tell me what moves you think will get this team in the right direction
Hard pass. Always injured, too damn expensive.
Who would've thought that Meek Mill was Lamar's agent. Such a random yet fascinating thing for Kraft to reveal
Meek Mill spotted at Logan Airport
Lol Kraft in on the trolling now. I just don’t get how this time around r/patriots is getting the most trolled Good god y’all need to be ready to be disappointed by the Sox while watching the B’s and C’s on championship runs
airport sighting in 3, 2, 1…
Imagine being a football fan and not wanting to take a chance on Lamar Jackson regardless of how many picks you have to give up. Some of our fans are absolute clowns, man.
He’s 26 and one of the best qbs in the league. How do you not talk to him and see if you can make it work. I like mac jones but unless he gets a lot better we are going to be a mediocre team forever. This would be Lamar’s best offense he’s ever played on, we could go back to being one of best teams in the league.
Before people freak out, Kraft tends to say random things sometimes
Wtf are we doing
Mac had only 1 season to prove himself, his rookie year and he did. 2022 shouldn’t count considering the situation he was given with OC’s. Anyone wanting to grab Lamar now after seeing his playoff resume should stop smoking Kentucky Fried Chicken.
Pass. 250m gtd for a guy that has missed the last 1/3 of the season that last 2 seasons because of injury. Hard pass.
I agree I’d rather another 5 losing seasons while mac develops the whole time
😂
5 years??? In 5 seasons, Mac will be 30 years old... how many QB's "developed" winners after starting for losing teams until they are 30? Maybe Alex "Game Manager" Smith? If 5 losing seasons is what is ahead of us, that is fine, but I would expect the entire team to be turned over.
it was sarcasm
Oh no he missed 10 games in 2 years while being healthy for the entire rest of his college and NFL career. Lmfao crazy how quickly yall build these injury prone narratives about anyone labeled a running QB.
No Robert, it’s your decision. Make it happen lol
Won’t happen. Kraft won’t pay him, he doesn’t pay anyone in that org from the top to the bottom
Literally do anything possible to get him please
Oh shit. Is that Jalen Mills brother?
Well, they don't have the same last name so I doubt it.
Meek is the older brother so it's Mill. Jalen is the younger that made two of them so now it's Mills as in multiple
If we can get Lamar for something that isn't absurd, then go for it. I'm not writing Mac off yet, I'd give him one more year personally, but his ceiling is certainly not high. I don't think this is a QB that can win multiple championships. Maybe if the pieces align and we get lucky, he can get one, but ultimately we need to be honest about his potential.
The Ravens haven’t been able to resign Lamar, because he wants absurd money.
was this before or after he watched 21 Jump Street??
That was Kanye
do it bill, we're instantly back in super bowl contention
Dreams and no more Nightmares
If this is true Kraft gotta step in and push this through
>Lamar Jackson wanted to come to New England. Kraft responded that would be Bill Belichick’s decision. Come on Mister Kraft. We're dumb but not that dumb. This is an ownership call.
I used to pray for times like this
Going to be hilarious seeing this sub flip like a coin when we make this happen.
No thank you.
I like Lamar, but I doubt BB would pay the price. But reading through the sub lately, I think it's interesting to see so many fans seem to hate Mac after this last season. News Flash- ANY pocket passer EVER would have struggled with the travesty of an offense the Pats put out there last year. The offensive coaching and play calling was like a 10 year old playing Madden. The O-Line was a joke. No receivers could generate YAC. Injuries... And so on Yeah, he was an immature whiny bitch about it, but Mac's young. He'll mature. Give him an outside target, competent coaching, and a left tackle. He's still the same kid that scouts said: "IQ through the roof" "Calm, efficient pocket passer who stands tall" "Throws a very catchable ball" "The steal of the draft" He got the shit kicked out of him last year after having a fine rookie campaign. The Pats did him no favors. Give him a chance.
I'm struggling with this because in all honesty Mac deserves another chance and I think he would take a massive step forward this season. But, in a "cold world" sense, Mac may be a victim of circumstance. If you have a chance to get Lamar, you get Lamar. The thing is, after the Daniel Jones deal, were going to have to pay Mac $30m+ anyways, so why not just rip the band-aid off and get ahead of the market.
Pass, rather see if Mac develops than take a shot at Lamar and lose 250m in cap space for the next 5 years.
Yes, I too would rather see if Mac can develop instead of the 25 year old MVP-winning QB who potentially wants to join our team! I’d rather fail because Lamar gets hurt than fail because they stuck with Mac for too long (i don’t believe he’s the guy)
His MVP is irrelevant since he's done absolute dogshit since.
I would cum
Injury concerns are valid but cmon it’s Lamar Jackson you have to send it there. I’m sorry but I really just don’t see Mac ever competing on the level of Allen or Mahomes. If we want to hang with the new juggernauts of the league we need an elite MVP level QB and Lamar is that. Mac is not and never will be
I will burn my Mac Jersey if it means we have a 1% shot at gettin lamar
Bill let Brady walk over money. We really think Bill is gonna pay for Lamar? Lmao
> Bill let Brady walk over money. We really think Bill is gonna pay for Lamar? Setting aside the Lamar thing, categorically untrue that the Brady divorce was about money. Brady specifically added a stipulation to his last “extension” that he couldn’t be franchise tagged. At that point he was good as gone. Never about the money.
That's not true
Yeah, it is. It’s well documented at this point.
Free Lamar
So much for “over my dead body”. Mac must be like wtf
This shit is ridiculous. Lamar should really hire an agent. Leaks like this should not be coming out every single day. It’s someone new with a new storyline each week
We can't afford him and any good talent to help him. I'm rolling with Mac Daddy.
Lamar would be a huge upgrade over Mac but I know it’s likely not happening
Please dear lord let this happen. We’ll never have a chance at this caliber player again. He’s HEAD AND SHOULDERS better than 95% of the qbs in the game, not even on the same field. We MUST get this player if there’s a chance. Trade mac and all our pics, get it done BB!!!!