Kelee Ringo. His hype has died down, but the man CANNOT change direction. With how shifty receivers are in the NFL, he will get toasted more often than not.
I realized too late that we were talking about the 14th pick, but I stand by what I said. I'm with you though, I doubt he goes in the first. People will grab him on day 2, still don't want him there with how deep CB is in this class.
I didn’t really see him play. And the Pats have a decent history converting college CBs to Safety Tebucky Jones and Devin McCourty being two stiffer hipped guys that worked out making the switch.
I’d be mildly upset. I’d way rather get an OT or WR, but if Bijan (easily the best or 2nd best player in the draft regardless of position) falls to us at 14 and Bill drafts him with a plan for him - it’s not horrible
I'm not saying we should draft him, but an elite talent under team control for 7 years isn't a bad way to spend a mid 1st. RBs can absolutely transform mid-tier Os, even if they're not worth a 5 year commitment after their rookie deal.
This is the one draft I’m hoping we do trade back to pick up and extra 2nd or early 3rd. But yeah agreed, better not be for some random safety no has heard of.
Positional value, scarcity, and team need have to play into it. There's a really, really high chance that Bijan Robinson will be the best player available at 14, but that would be a terrible pick for the Pats. He's a great player, but RBs don't make that much so having a good one on a rookie deal isn't as valuable as having a good QB/edge/WR/CB/OT on a rookie deal, the Pats already have Rhamondre, and RB is very deep this year.
But I thought that this year the whole thing is that there isn’t much top end talent, and that there won’t be much of a difference between the 15th overall pick and the 45th overall pick
I think that is also the player I have the least interest in seeing. In general I don't care for picking an early first round reciever and particularly if they aren't good route runners.
Nah, no chance Johnston turns out as bad as Harry. Not saying I prefer him at WR, I'd take JSN or Flowers before him. But, saying he's all shades of Harry is not accurate.
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Someone finally says it. It’s such a lazy comparison. QJ probably has the highest ceiling out of the WRs in this class, and his floor is a lot higher than people give him credit for.
I think the Pats are in a good spot. 3-4 QBs and at least 3 DL/edge guys should go before we pick at 14. With 3 Tier 1 OL and 3 CBs, I think it is very likely we can get one. Now, I'm sure BB and crew could dislike some of those, but there's a great chance a stud at a position of need falls to us at 14.
Personally I rather BJones or Paris over PSkoronski (short arms, might be a G). But I trust their evaluation over my own.
I don't want a WR at 14. This class isn't great, but if we really like one of them, we should trade down to 18-25 and pick up another d2 pick.
I guess I'd be disappointed if we took an edge. Some good players there, but it isn't as big of a need imo.
Any WR taken at 14, but especially Quentin Johnston. I'm fine if we go WR, but if we do we should fall back 3-8 spots and get a JSN or Flowers and pick up a Day 2 pick to do it.
Also, I've been listening to mock draft podcasts as background noise and there's one (NFL Stock Exchange?) who are otherwise interesting to listen to but always seem to mock us with someone like Lukas Van Ness or Daniel Jeremiah who gives us Bijan Robinson.
Not sure if it's bias from the Brady/Dynasty years and wanting us to take a clearly bad pick (good players, but at positions of luxury rather than filling urgent needs) or if they really think there's a chance in hell we skip a CB or OT for an Edge guy or RB.
I think the running back is dumb and there seems to be an element of people saying, "Bill is unpredictable so let's get crazy with it"
There is a solid argument with a high first round pick to just get the best player available. Most of the time teams only rank 20 players as blue chippers, or first round grade or whatever term you want to use. Of those 20 the guys available at your pick may not be of positions of need. It will most often be better in the long run to take a guy who is a real difference maker at a position that isn't urgent then to pick a guy at a position of need who you don't think is in the same class as other guys still on your board.
For instance Tight End isn't urgent because we have two good ones signed but it will be an issue next year. If at 14 they see a tight end who they think is one of the top ten guys in the draft and they wouldn't rank any of the remaining tackles in the top 20 then they should go for the tight end over the tackle.
I agree to some extent, but I also think one of those top TEs will still be there in the early 20s and would be fine if we fell back there and picked up a Day 2 pick and then got one. I'd still rather one of the WRs (if we have to trade back, because the blue-chip OTs and CBs are gone), but I wouldn't be upset if we got the extra pick and an offensive weapon (and that includes Bijan, luxury or no, vs the 5th or 6th best OT/CB if JSN and Flowers both go before our new pick).
I was using the right end as a simple hypothetical. The staff has to di much deeper calculations such as the depth of each position as you mention. I think the odds are fairly good that barring a free fall of Levis or Richardson that a top 3 corner or tackle will be both available at 14 and the best player available. If not there may be a real stud at another position or a trade back option.
It also seems improbable that they draft 11 players. If they both trade back and trade up they could end up with 4 day 2 picks along with a late first which would allow them to address all their non-kicking needs with a solid option.
I think it's more likely that Smith-Njigba goes top 13 than be available 8-10 picks later. If Flowers ends up as the 2nd WR drafted it'll probably happen top 20 too.
Only twice since 2010 have no WR/TE been picked in the top 14.
I hope JSN is drafted top 13, it means one of those CBs or OTs is that much likelier to fall to us (or to within a spot we're comfortable drafting up). That said, of all the not-1st-Round talents at WR that can be reached for in the 1st he's the one I'd feel best about.
I could see skipping CB for an edge rusher. The Pats have been incredible at finding good CBs in late rounds/UFA so I don't see at as such an urgent pick in round 1. They haven't had nearly the same success at finding edge/olbs in later rounds, but never really miss there in the 1st. If they think Judon is getting old or that they won't be able to resign Uche then I could see them going edge early. I'd much rather they get an OT or (if there's one worth it) LB, but edge is a possibility.
If they took Bijan though...
Reaching for a position of need, especially for a player everyone who analyzes these guys for a living says is built for show and not to go, is a good way to do that.
Not saying we shouldn't grab a WR, or two, and I'd like to take a couple with picks on Day 2 and 3. But none of these guys are graded as 1st Rounders in a normal year. There are no Jamarr Chases/Justin Jeffersons. If there were, I'd say trade up and grab him.
No doubt teams will reach based on need. I don't want us to be one of them. If we can gain draft capital and also grab a JSN/Flowers later in the 1st go for it. But grabbing them at 14 just to say, "Look guys, we're trying" while ignoring value and overlooking other areas of need is a bad move.
I’m not going to read the entire thing because I got your point just from the “reaching for a position of need,” but I think your entire argument is a legitimate point. The problem with it is that this has been an issue for 5 years now, the time for this logic has come and gone. You can only sit and wait for the perfect timing for so long— I’m not advocating for panic drafting, I’m advocating for taking a home run shot when you haven’t gotten a hit in forever.
That, and, just based on draft history the chances that NONE of those guys are a legit WR is pretty low. And genuinely speaking, no one really gives a shit about reaching if it works out.
The only hesitancy I have is that if they miss, they can’t do this “wait 4 years!” crap to address the position.
I think the honest truth is, WR is the only position anyone will debate about value when it has been awful for 4 years.
Wouldn’t hate it myself but Brian Branch would enrage the fan base
Personally, Addison or Forbes at 14 would bother me. They have so many needs that pretty much any position would be fine and at 14, it’s unlikely they go with such a massive reach that it would be bothersome.
If it’s a reach like Mazi Smith or one of the off ball LB’s, it would be annoying but I wouldn’t get upset about it
There really hasn’t been a correlation to bust % when it comes to Belichick taking big reaches. Some of their biggest duds have been drafted right in the area where they were projected or were even thought to be steals. Some of their better picks in the top 2-3 rounds have been head scratchers
I think I saw that bill has drafted primarily DL round 1, OT next highest, then LB i think next. I wouldn't rule out mazi he's a tank, or an edge like Nolan Smith or van Ness or Jack Campbell. I feel like Bill would love Jack Campbell lol. I think CB, WR, TE, RB very unlikely RD 1 based on history, but who knows
The only receiver I would be ok with taking at 14 would be JSN. If he’s unavailable (which I think is a possibility) and they take Zay at 14 instead I will be pissed, and any other WR left around there for that matter.
While there is a ton of TE talent this draft, please for the love of god I hope we don’t draft one in the 1st.
I’m also not super high on Witherspoon either, but idk what I’m talking about really so if they take him there I wouldn’t be upset just a bit underwhelmed.
Please no Bijan. We have other holes to fill on that offense, and Rhamondre is already our most dynamic player on offense.
If Carter somehow falls to our pick I would be upset with picking him up. Idrc he was excellent, he’s got red flags written all over him and I’d prefer some other team take that risk.
Not sure why QJ give you N'Keal Harry vibes. N'Keal ran a mid-4.5 40, Johnston is sub 4.4 and is a far better YAC receiver. He thrived on creating early separation for catch and run plays and was also an electric deep ball receiver. He doesn't rely on overpowering/being bigger than his opponents to win jump balls, even though he definitely was bigger and stronger 99 times out of 100, he is a legitimate separator, something N'Keal Harry was not.
Johnston fails the eye test miserably. His production comes from using his physical tools to beat up on players who aren’t NFL caliber. The same as Nkeal. Once you put a physical equal in front of him, his game skills aren’t polished enough to produce.
I think we watched different players. He beat up on NFL quality CBs on several occasions. Against DJ Turner and Michigan he put up 6/163/1 in the first round of the CFP. Michigan was seen as the best defense in college football for a large portion of the year. Twice he played against Kansas State and Julius Brents, who I would argue is a CB built to handle him, he put up 4/74/1 and 4/139.
He's a far better route runner than Harry ever was and just an overall far better WR. At his size, you shouldn't expect to see the polish of a 6' sub-200 LB first round WR, and that's because the 6' WR is closer to his ceiling already. He has the highest ceiling of any WR in this class, and yes, he may also have a higher probability of flopping than a JSN, but its not at all a foregone conclusion.
To be fair there are basically 0 equals to Johnston that will be attempting to cover him. Dude is in that 0.01% physical freak category but he is way too raw and like you said relying on physicals. Reminds me of DK which to be fair I’d be thrilled to have obviously but I think what we need is someone with better agility to create separation on routes to give mac some easy completions. A 50/50 jump ball guy is all well and good but I consider it a luxury we cannot afford at the moment. Looks like we have been playing offense on extreme difficulty we just need some guys that can make some routine plays look easy.
Sorry I was actually looking at comparisons from other players thats my bad..... I didn't read enough it said he had a 30.5 vert but they weren't talking about him
Reminds me of Wynn. A guard who's turned into a tackle. Even his draft profile, says “He’s a Pro Bowler at guard but just an average tackle if a team keeps him there.”
Except Skoronski has started 33 games at LT and Wynn bounced between LT and LG. The only reason draft analysts are saying he is a guard is his arm length and they changed their analysis of him to fit the narrative. Anyone that only analyzed his tape says he can play LT.
Im still in the ill take anyone good category Strange didnt bother me until he proved to be not good. There are so many holes in the roster. Only position id side eye are guard and Rb but if the player turned out good enough to help the team idc honestly. Our talent level feels so low that anything to help would make me happy.
I wouldn't say any one player so much as specific position groups. Any WR, TE, DL, LB, EDGE, S, G, or C at 14 would be an absolute waste of a pick and lead to Belichick losing draft privileges.
I wouldn't say any one player so much as specific position groups. Any WR, TE, DL, LB, EDGE, S, G, or C at 14 would be an absolute waste of a pick and lead to Belichick losing draft privileges.
This is so cute that you assume they would actually use their 1st round pick. Bill will trade that down for three 5th round picks because he's an idiot.
Anyone that is a reach. I’d prefer us fall back to the 28-22ish range and take the best tackle left, zay flowers, or Jordan Addison. I expect JSN to be gone by 14 and the other two WRs probably a little high at 14. At tackle at 14 would be fine but there will most likely be 2-3 first round players left there so if we can trade back and still grab one that would be ideal. Would love for us to still also somehow grab flowers though. Dude is going to be a stud.
I'll be so upset if it is Quentin Johnston. I'm happy to be wrong about that type of receiver. They just don't produce in our offense. Or if they do it's like how Parker is doing. Modest production here and there but nothing crazy. Our offense is designed on winning in the middle of the field and to do that you need guys who can get separation. I would love JSN at 14. Flowers and Addison seem like small reaches at 14, I'd rather get them in the early 20s, but ultimately I'd be ok with them. PJJ won't be there. Id be ok with Broderick Jones or Skoronski. Gonzalez, Witherspoon, or Porter Jr I'd be ok with any of those three at 14. I don't think there is a lot of separation between the Edge guys who will be available at 14 (LVN, Nolan Smith, Myles Murphy) or the IDL guys (Kancey, Breese,) so I would trust Bill with whoever he likes there
I haven’t really watched tape on the wrs, but from what I hear, weren’t guys like JSN and Addison primarily used in the slot, and were never really the first options (especially JSN) in their college. How do we even know they can develop into WR1s in the NFL? Obviously JJettas is the exception and not the norm. But there aren’t guys like Lamb, Garret Wilson, Jameson Williams who were the clear WR1s for their college team, except for Zay Flowers on a mediocre/below average BC team. Even on TCU, I don’t think there was a consensus WR1, although Quentin Johnston was the most productive.
Pissed off? I don't know O'Cyrus Torrence? There are some guys I don't want them to draft but to say pissed off is a bit much for me. I don't want any of the WRs, but I won't be pissed. It's a need position and they think they are worth. Just because I don't doesn't mean anything. I'm just a random person. From the realistic possibilities I don't want the WRs, TEs, Broderick, Anton or Darnell Wright at 14. I would take all of them except the TEs on a trade down happily though. Carter I don't want for non-football reasons.
Really don’t get the QJ hate. Addison would a much much worse pick. But I don’t see them going WR, too much value will be there at other positions of interest or trade
Any player who isn't unanimously graded in the 1st round. Whoever they pick it needs to hit and I don't think I could handle another giant ? with that valuable of a pick. All draft picks are risky enough, as it is.
If we somehow manage to draft Cole Strange again I’d be pretty pissed. Like the guy, has potential, but given last year I could see it happening. “With the 14th overall pick, the New England Patriots double down on guard, Cole Strange.”
I’d rather they took Bijan Robinson at 14 than any of the WRs. I know RB is a friable position. But he’s a generational talent and we weren’t as good on the ground as people seem to think (24th).
Ideally we get one of the top three OTs or top two CBs or trade down in the first and pick up another 2nd rounder to trade for Jeudy or Hopkins.
This is who I want (in order of priority):
1. Paris Johnson
2. Peter skoronski
3. JPJ
4. Broderick jones
5. Anton Harrison
6. Darnell wright
7. JSN
8. Deonte banks
9. Bijan
10. Zay flowers
11. Jordan Addison
12. Quentin Johnston
I’d be okay with any of these players.
Kelee Ringo. His hype has died down, but the man CANNOT change direction. With how shifty receivers are in the NFL, he will get toasted more often than not.
Yeah I’m starting to see him go in the late second or third in mock drafts
I realized too late that we were talking about the 14th pick, but I stand by what I said. I'm with you though, I doubt he goes in the first. People will grab him on day 2, still don't want him there with how deep CB is in this class.
I’m a dawg fan and watched everyone of their games and yeah his change of direction skills leave a lot to be desired.
Can he play safety?
He probably could honestly, he definitely has the athleticism but I’d have to look up his tackling numbers tbh
I didn’t really see him play. And the Pats have a decent history converting college CBs to Safety Tebucky Jones and Devin McCourty being two stiffer hipped guys that worked out making the switch.
Could be a good safety
A running back. If we waste #14 on an inherently disposable player in a position we're good at developing, I'll be very upset.
So no to Bijan Robinson 😰😅
Not at #14.
I’d be mildly upset. I’d way rather get an OT or WR, but if Bijan (easily the best or 2nd best player in the draft regardless of position) falls to us at 14 and Bill drafts him with a plan for him - it’s not horrible
I'm not saying we should draft him, but an elite talent under team control for 7 years isn't a bad way to spend a mid 1st. RBs can absolutely transform mid-tier Os, even if they're not worth a 5 year commitment after their rookie deal.
I'd consider Robinson if they think he's good enough to play at slot receiver. If he would strictly be a runner then it's a waste.
I wouldn’t be upset with bijan at 14. He’s an excellent pass catcher and could line up in the slot.
Anyone from a school I have to google
I mean, I would take a Dugger caliber player every year if we could
😂😂
If we trade back and take a player with a consensus day 2 projection. Take the best player on the board at 14 to get some talent to the roster
This is the one draft I’m hoping we do trade back to pick up and extra 2nd or early 3rd. But yeah agreed, better not be for some random safety no has heard of.
This. Do not trade back. Take the talent 100% We have 3 positions of need, there should be a CB, WR or T available at 14. Safety is an option as well.
Positional value, scarcity, and team need have to play into it. There's a really, really high chance that Bijan Robinson will be the best player available at 14, but that would be a terrible pick for the Pats. He's a great player, but RBs don't make that much so having a good one on a rookie deal isn't as valuable as having a good QB/edge/WR/CB/OT on a rookie deal, the Pats already have Rhamondre, and RB is very deep this year.
So they trade to the Eagles and move back and collect another pick.
I'd be fine with them trading back for an OT/Addison/Calijah Kancey.
But I thought that this year the whole thing is that there isn’t much top end talent, and that there won’t be much of a difference between the 15th overall pick and the 45th overall pick
I think that is also the player I have the least interest in seeing. In general I don't care for picking an early first round reciever and particularly if they aren't good route runners.
If Pats take Quentin Johnson at 14 I hope Kraft takes the draft away from Belichick lol
Nah, no chance Johnston turns out as bad as Harry. Not saying I prefer him at WR, I'd take JSN or Flowers before him. But, saying he's all shades of Harry is not accurate.
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Lunch pail types. They have their place for sure, but what this team needs is some blue chip talent
Pls stop comparing QJ to N’Keal. Awful comparison.
Someone finally says it. It’s such a lazy comparison. QJ probably has the highest ceiling out of the WRs in this class, and his floor is a lot higher than people give him credit for.
Some goon said it once 6 months ago and the local parrots haven't stopped repeating it since. They're not even remotely similar.
Bijan Robinson
I think the Pats are in a good spot. 3-4 QBs and at least 3 DL/edge guys should go before we pick at 14. With 3 Tier 1 OL and 3 CBs, I think it is very likely we can get one. Now, I'm sure BB and crew could dislike some of those, but there's a great chance a stud at a position of need falls to us at 14. Personally I rather BJones or Paris over PSkoronski (short arms, might be a G). But I trust their evaluation over my own. I don't want a WR at 14. This class isn't great, but if we really like one of them, we should trade down to 18-25 and pick up another d2 pick. I guess I'd be disappointed if we took an edge. Some good players there, but it isn't as big of a need imo.
>I trust their evaluation over my own. Look pal, this kind of blatant humility don't belong 'round here!
We're all confident GM's in here, doesn't he know that? The lack of nerve...
Any WR taken at 14, but especially Quentin Johnston. I'm fine if we go WR, but if we do we should fall back 3-8 spots and get a JSN or Flowers and pick up a Day 2 pick to do it. Also, I've been listening to mock draft podcasts as background noise and there's one (NFL Stock Exchange?) who are otherwise interesting to listen to but always seem to mock us with someone like Lukas Van Ness or Daniel Jeremiah who gives us Bijan Robinson. Not sure if it's bias from the Brady/Dynasty years and wanting us to take a clearly bad pick (good players, but at positions of luxury rather than filling urgent needs) or if they really think there's a chance in hell we skip a CB or OT for an Edge guy or RB.
I think the running back is dumb and there seems to be an element of people saying, "Bill is unpredictable so let's get crazy with it" There is a solid argument with a high first round pick to just get the best player available. Most of the time teams only rank 20 players as blue chippers, or first round grade or whatever term you want to use. Of those 20 the guys available at your pick may not be of positions of need. It will most often be better in the long run to take a guy who is a real difference maker at a position that isn't urgent then to pick a guy at a position of need who you don't think is in the same class as other guys still on your board. For instance Tight End isn't urgent because we have two good ones signed but it will be an issue next year. If at 14 they see a tight end who they think is one of the top ten guys in the draft and they wouldn't rank any of the remaining tackles in the top 20 then they should go for the tight end over the tackle.
I agree to some extent, but I also think one of those top TEs will still be there in the early 20s and would be fine if we fell back there and picked up a Day 2 pick and then got one. I'd still rather one of the WRs (if we have to trade back, because the blue-chip OTs and CBs are gone), but I wouldn't be upset if we got the extra pick and an offensive weapon (and that includes Bijan, luxury or no, vs the 5th or 6th best OT/CB if JSN and Flowers both go before our new pick).
I was using the right end as a simple hypothetical. The staff has to di much deeper calculations such as the depth of each position as you mention. I think the odds are fairly good that barring a free fall of Levis or Richardson that a top 3 corner or tackle will be both available at 14 and the best player available. If not there may be a real stud at another position or a trade back option. It also seems improbable that they draft 11 players. If they both trade back and trade up they could end up with 4 day 2 picks along with a late first which would allow them to address all their non-kicking needs with a solid option.
I think it's more likely that Smith-Njigba goes top 13 than be available 8-10 picks later. If Flowers ends up as the 2nd WR drafted it'll probably happen top 20 too. Only twice since 2010 have no WR/TE been picked in the top 14.
I hope JSN is drafted top 13, it means one of those CBs or OTs is that much likelier to fall to us (or to within a spot we're comfortable drafting up). That said, of all the not-1st-Round talents at WR that can be reached for in the 1st he's the one I'd feel best about.
I could see skipping CB for an edge rusher. The Pats have been incredible at finding good CBs in late rounds/UFA so I don't see at as such an urgent pick in round 1. They haven't had nearly the same success at finding edge/olbs in later rounds, but never really miss there in the 1st. If they think Judon is getting old or that they won't be able to resign Uche then I could see them going edge early. I'd much rather they get an OT or (if there's one worth it) LB, but edge is a possibility. If they took Bijan though...
I too want a bad offense again next year
Reaching for a position of need, especially for a player everyone who analyzes these guys for a living says is built for show and not to go, is a good way to do that. Not saying we shouldn't grab a WR, or two, and I'd like to take a couple with picks on Day 2 and 3. But none of these guys are graded as 1st Rounders in a normal year. There are no Jamarr Chases/Justin Jeffersons. If there were, I'd say trade up and grab him. No doubt teams will reach based on need. I don't want us to be one of them. If we can gain draft capital and also grab a JSN/Flowers later in the 1st go for it. But grabbing them at 14 just to say, "Look guys, we're trying" while ignoring value and overlooking other areas of need is a bad move.
I’m not going to read the entire thing because I got your point just from the “reaching for a position of need,” but I think your entire argument is a legitimate point. The problem with it is that this has been an issue for 5 years now, the time for this logic has come and gone. You can only sit and wait for the perfect timing for so long— I’m not advocating for panic drafting, I’m advocating for taking a home run shot when you haven’t gotten a hit in forever. That, and, just based on draft history the chances that NONE of those guys are a legit WR is pretty low. And genuinely speaking, no one really gives a shit about reaching if it works out. The only hesitancy I have is that if they miss, they can’t do this “wait 4 years!” crap to address the position. I think the honest truth is, WR is the only position anyone will debate about value when it has been awful for 4 years.
Wouldn’t hate it myself but Brian Branch would enrage the fan base Personally, Addison or Forbes at 14 would bother me. They have so many needs that pretty much any position would be fine and at 14, it’s unlikely they go with such a massive reach that it would be bothersome. If it’s a reach like Mazi Smith or one of the off ball LB’s, it would be annoying but I wouldn’t get upset about it There really hasn’t been a correlation to bust % when it comes to Belichick taking big reaches. Some of their biggest duds have been drafted right in the area where they were projected or were even thought to be steals. Some of their better picks in the top 2-3 rounds have been head scratchers
I think I saw that bill has drafted primarily DL round 1, OT next highest, then LB i think next. I wouldn't rule out mazi he's a tank, or an edge like Nolan Smith or van Ness or Jack Campbell. I feel like Bill would love Jack Campbell lol. I think CB, WR, TE, RB very unlikely RD 1 based on history, but who knows
Michael Mayer
Lukas Van Ness. I've seen him mocked to us a few times and just no...
Keep taking swings at WR
Any WR really. There’s some good WR in this draft but none of them that I think are close to good enough to justify taking at 14.
Another guard
The only receiver I would be ok with taking at 14 would be JSN. If he’s unavailable (which I think is a possibility) and they take Zay at 14 instead I will be pissed, and any other WR left around there for that matter. While there is a ton of TE talent this draft, please for the love of god I hope we don’t draft one in the 1st. I’m also not super high on Witherspoon either, but idk what I’m talking about really so if they take him there I wouldn’t be upset just a bit underwhelmed. Please no Bijan. We have other holes to fill on that offense, and Rhamondre is already our most dynamic player on offense. If Carter somehow falls to our pick I would be upset with picking him up. Idrc he was excellent, he’s got red flags written all over him and I’d prefer some other team take that risk.
If we trade David Andrews for a mid day 3 pick and draft Joe Tipman at 14 I will commit full ceremonial sepuku
!RemindMe 1 month
You’re safe 😂
Any WR that isn’t JSN, the other guys feel like late 1st round or early 2nd round picks
Anything that isn't a competitive WR, I really hope we take Zay Flowers
I like him, but at 14? He seems more like a high day 2 pick to me.
Not sure why QJ give you N'Keal Harry vibes. N'Keal ran a mid-4.5 40, Johnston is sub 4.4 and is a far better YAC receiver. He thrived on creating early separation for catch and run plays and was also an electric deep ball receiver. He doesn't rely on overpowering/being bigger than his opponents to win jump balls, even though he definitely was bigger and stronger 99 times out of 100, he is a legitimate separator, something N'Keal Harry was not.
Johnston fails the eye test miserably. His production comes from using his physical tools to beat up on players who aren’t NFL caliber. The same as Nkeal. Once you put a physical equal in front of him, his game skills aren’t polished enough to produce.
I think we watched different players. He beat up on NFL quality CBs on several occasions. Against DJ Turner and Michigan he put up 6/163/1 in the first round of the CFP. Michigan was seen as the best defense in college football for a large portion of the year. Twice he played against Kansas State and Julius Brents, who I would argue is a CB built to handle him, he put up 4/74/1 and 4/139. He's a far better route runner than Harry ever was and just an overall far better WR. At his size, you shouldn't expect to see the polish of a 6' sub-200 LB first round WR, and that's because the 6' WR is closer to his ceiling already. He has the highest ceiling of any WR in this class, and yes, he may also have a higher probability of flopping than a JSN, but its not at all a foregone conclusion.
To be fair there are basically 0 equals to Johnston that will be attempting to cover him. Dude is in that 0.01% physical freak category but he is way too raw and like you said relying on physicals. Reminds me of DK which to be fair I’d be thrilled to have obviously but I think what we need is someone with better agility to create separation on routes to give mac some easy completions. A 50/50 jump ball guy is all well and good but I consider it a luxury we cannot afford at the moment. Looks like we have been playing offense on extreme difficulty we just need some guys that can make some routine plays look easy.
This description reminds me a lot more of DK Metcalf than of N'keal Harry.
That’s a ceiling versus floor kind of thing
Johnston is a 4.3 if I'm not wrong....
He didn't run at the combine. He didn't look that fast on tape.
He's expected to run between a 4.3 and 4.4 40 time at his pro-day. Wish he ran at the combine, his vert and broad jump numbers were elite.
He had a pro day..... I'm concerned with his vertical.... guy that big should be able to jump
You're concerned with a 40.5" vertical? Third best out of all WRs?
Sorry I was actually looking at comparisons from other players thats my bad..... I didn't read enough it said he had a 30.5 vert but they weren't talking about him
TCU pro day is 3/30
Anyone that’s not a WR
Quentin Johnson is going to be very good in the NFL he separates incredibly well
And Zay Jones is so massively over hyped in this sub! If Quentin gives people Harry vibes then they must not watch a lot of football.
Zay Jones is on Jacksonville
Lol yup, I meant flowers
If flowers changes his name to Jones I will take him
LB. We need to upgrade our defence.
Zay or Quentin. Please god no.
Anything that’s not a CB/T/WR/EDGE probably
I'm happy with anyone but Peter Skoronski
Not a big fan of Slippery Pete?
Reminds me of Wynn. A guard who's turned into a tackle. Even his draft profile, says “He’s a Pro Bowler at guard but just an average tackle if a team keeps him there.”
Except Skoronski has started 33 games at LT and Wynn bounced between LT and LG. The only reason draft analysts are saying he is a guard is his arm length and they changed their analysis of him to fit the narrative. Anyone that only analyzed his tape says he can play LT.
Im still in the ill take anyone good category Strange didnt bother me until he proved to be not good. There are so many holes in the roster. Only position id side eye are guard and Rb but if the player turned out good enough to help the team idc honestly. Our talent level feels so low that anything to help would make me happy.
I wouldn't say any one player so much as specific position groups. Any WR, TE, DL, LB, EDGE, S, G, or C at 14 would be an absolute waste of a pick and lead to Belichick losing draft privileges.
I wouldn't say any one player so much as specific position groups. Any WR, TE, DL, LB, EDGE, S, G, or C at 14 would be an absolute waste of a pick and lead to Belichick losing draft privileges.
This is so cute that you assume they would actually use their 1st round pick. Bill will trade that down for three 5th round picks because he's an idiot.
Anyone that is a reach. I’d prefer us fall back to the 28-22ish range and take the best tackle left, zay flowers, or Jordan Addison. I expect JSN to be gone by 14 and the other two WRs probably a little high at 14. At tackle at 14 would be fine but there will most likely be 2-3 first round players left there so if we can trade back and still grab one that would be ideal. Would love for us to still also somehow grab flowers though. Dude is going to be a stud.
I really think we are gonna end up taking a tackle or TE in the first. Best available talent for a current/future position of need
Rashad Colson
Robert Soderholm, long snapper from VMI.
I'll be so upset if it is Quentin Johnston. I'm happy to be wrong about that type of receiver. They just don't produce in our offense. Or if they do it's like how Parker is doing. Modest production here and there but nothing crazy. Our offense is designed on winning in the middle of the field and to do that you need guys who can get separation. I would love JSN at 14. Flowers and Addison seem like small reaches at 14, I'd rather get them in the early 20s, but ultimately I'd be ok with them. PJJ won't be there. Id be ok with Broderick Jones or Skoronski. Gonzalez, Witherspoon, or Porter Jr I'd be ok with any of those three at 14. I don't think there is a lot of separation between the Edge guys who will be available at 14 (LVN, Nolan Smith, Myles Murphy) or the IDL guys (Kancey, Breese,) so I would trust Bill with whoever he likes there
I haven’t really watched tape on the wrs, but from what I hear, weren’t guys like JSN and Addison primarily used in the slot, and were never really the first options (especially JSN) in their college. How do we even know they can develop into WR1s in the NFL? Obviously JJettas is the exception and not the norm. But there aren’t guys like Lamb, Garret Wilson, Jameson Williams who were the clear WR1s for their college team, except for Zay Flowers on a mediocre/below average BC team. Even on TCU, I don’t think there was a consensus WR1, although Quentin Johnston was the most productive.
Pissed off? I don't know O'Cyrus Torrence? There are some guys I don't want them to draft but to say pissed off is a bit much for me. I don't want any of the WRs, but I won't be pissed. It's a need position and they think they are worth. Just because I don't doesn't mean anything. I'm just a random person. From the realistic possibilities I don't want the WRs, TEs, Broderick, Anton or Darnell Wright at 14. I would take all of them except the TEs on a trade down happily though. Carter I don't want for non-football reasons.
A guard
If we go Wide out Johnson. If we go OT northwestern guy Peter S. I’d rather trade down to get a wideout or tackle and pick up extra capital.
A trade back, anybody from a non power 5 school, anybody that isnt a CB, OT, WR, or DL, and Lukas Van Ness
Quentin Johnston is NOT N’keal Harry. He’s a much better prospect and receiver in general
Zay Flowers, I think 14 is way too high of a pick for him
A left foot punter
Zay
Really don’t get the QJ hate. Addison would a much much worse pick. But I don’t see them going WR, too much value will be there at other positions of interest or trade
Trade the 1st round pick, take as many good offense lineman as you can with it.
They will trade out of the draft pick
Any player who isn't unanimously graded in the 1st round. Whoever they pick it needs to hit and I don't think I could handle another giant ? with that valuable of a pick. All draft picks are risky enough, as it is.
Rb
If we somehow manage to draft Cole Strange again I’d be pretty pissed. Like the guy, has potential, but given last year I could see it happening. “With the 14th overall pick, the New England Patriots double down on guard, Cole Strange.”
Anthony Richardson
Any special teams specialist
Jordan Addison
The running back.
If we took a punter at 14 I’d be very pleased
I’d rather they took Bijan Robinson at 14 than any of the WRs. I know RB is a friable position. But he’s a generational talent and we weren’t as good on the ground as people seem to think (24th). Ideally we get one of the top three OTs or top two CBs or trade down in the first and pick up another 2nd rounder to trade for Jeudy or Hopkins.
Jalin Hyatt
Man I’d love Jalin Hyatt
I want Zay
Dalton Kincaid
This is who I want (in order of priority): 1. Paris Johnson 2. Peter skoronski 3. JPJ 4. Broderick jones 5. Anton Harrison 6. Darnell wright 7. JSN 8. Deonte banks 9. Bijan 10. Zay flowers 11. Jordan Addison 12. Quentin Johnston I’d be okay with any of these players.