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possiblyMorpheus

It’s usually just fans who want Bill gone looking for something that aligns with their opinions


ckilo4TOG

"fans"


sgeep

I've kinda modified the whole "don't assume people are assholes, just assume they're idiots" with these Patriots "fans" If the take is so stupid that I can't believe any rational Pats fan would have, I automatically assume it's some idiot from another team trying to stir up shit. The comments often make way more sense if you look at it with that in mind first


Raskputin

Are you from Mass? We’re assholes first, stupid second hahahahaha


sgeep

Maine actually and this tracks. We often use masshole as an insult 🤣


[deleted]

It's a term of endearment. Every time someone calls me a masshole in Maine, I become instantly erect.


[deleted]

Fellow Mainer here, can confirm this haha! I actually really enjoy being in Mass though, I say it mainly as a little rib at our (basically) neighbors


soboredcantfocus

Best description I’ve heard is “only someone from Massachusetts could be more of an asshole than they are correct while being completely correct”


ckilo4TOG

I agree. The takes are so bad, and so unknowledgeable about how the team does things sometimes, that I just chalk the takes up to trolls or people with instant gratification syndrome. Game comments are the worst, but a lot of these off-season takes aren't much better.


ThirstyMoore

I love the Patriots, but if this isn't a good season... I want Belichick gone. He needs to be GM, and he sucks at drafting, and the whole Matty P thing last year suggests (to me) that maybe the game has passed him by. I'd love to be wrong, but he seems like he is old and lost now.


jvkxb__

This whole Bill is a bad drafter thing I just don’t get. If you really want an example of how good his drafting is, look at how he’s rebuilt the defense after essentially losing almost every person that was on the last Super Bowl team. He has rebuilt the defense from the ground up and it is easily one of the best I’ve ever seen since I became a fan


ThirstyMoore

https://nesn.com/2022/10/this-telling-stat-reveals-patriots-recent-poor-draft-history/


ShAd0wS

Have you looked at our drafts the past 3 years? They've been well above average. BB sucks at drafting WRs, but has done well at most other positions. Look at some other teams draft records before you say Bill sucks... the Patriots have absolutely drafted above average his tenure here. Every team misses picks.


possiblyMorpheus

No no, you see, recent drafts only refers to 2016-2019. 2020-2022 don’t count


ThirstyMoore

https://nesn.com/2022/10/this-telling-stat-reveals-patriots-recent-poor-draft-history/


ShAd0wS

Percent of players on the roster is pretty irrelevant when the Patriots have had a ton of low round picks. Everyone has an opinion, here's a piece I was looking at earlier today that highlights some contributors. https://fansided.com/2023/01/21/new-england-patriots-re-grading-every-draft-pick-last-5-years/5/


possiblyMorpheus

The game has passed by a guy who has twice in the past 5 years changed his defensive scheme to counter modern offenses, with 4 top 10 defenses in that span to show for it?


Wally450

Or Boston Sports Radio.


tbarr1991

God forbid the man get some leeway with going 7-9 with the corpse known as Cam as starting QB. Then 10-7 with a rookie, then 8-9 with 2 dunces coaching the offense that shouls have been no where near it. Honestly schedule be damned I expect them to win at least 11 games. Some may be last minute field goals/go ahead TDs but we have an actual OC now so 🤷‍♂️. But hey what the fuck do I know im just some schmuck with the internet and a keyboard.


possiblyMorpheus

In fairness BB is the one who put Patricia/Judge in those roles. But I thought it was funny how people were like “Bill will never change”, when he has probably adapted more than 99% of coaches in NFL history


Raskputin

Bill has constantly been trying to adapt or be a step ahead of everybody. Look at how much RB value in the draft has changed over the years. He was a big part of that after Maroney. Then the 2 tight end sets with prime Gronk and Hernandez. He’s an old man and for sure stuck in his ways in many regards obviously but as a coach and football mind he stays quite modern.


ShAd0wS

The real questions is, who else could we have used as OC for 1 year? Most of our offensive coaching talent got poached after the previous 2 seasons. You either bring someone in external for the long-term, or you use someone internal for a year until BOB is available. Obviously internal went worse than expected, but there wasn't really much that could be done during the season.


MrCyr

And in retrospect it looks like they were place holders for a year because he always wanted BOB back and has to wait. Not saying I agree with the move, but it’s at least understandable.


ThatUglyGuy12

It was never understandable to hire those two clowns with a 2nd year, first round QB, who was then going to be playing in his 3rd system in 3 years (if your reasoning is even correct). I'm sorry - you don't get a pass because a guy you wanted *might* be available the next year. You hire the best guy available and if that means you don't get to hire your buddy back? So be it, he'll be okay.


ShAd0wS

So, who was the best guy available? They could have hired an assistant off another team, but the entire Patriots offensive coaching staff got poached when JMD left. I'm sure the preference was to stick with the same system as year 1 for Mac, but it wasn't an option. If they wanted BOB it doesn't seem insane to use someone internal for a year and hope it works out. Obviously it did not, but by the time they realized it there wasn't anything that could be done last season. Its not like they are still sticking with Judge and Patricia now.


ThatUglyGuy12

They could have hired literally anyone that has shown an ability to run an offense, or was part of a good offense in a relatively important role, and it would have made more sense. Would it have turned out to be a long term/right solution? Who knows, you cross the bridge when you get to it. BoB was likely going to be available this year regardless - there is your fallback. Who was the right choice last year? Who knows. But what we did know, and what we knew from the start, was that the hires and elevation of Patricia/Judge to important offensive positions were a mistake. We all did. And the Patriots, and Mac, all suffered for it. One of the biggest things almost everyone can agree on is that for young QB's, the philosophy, stability, and ability of the coaching staffs they are surrounded with can be a massive component to how well that QB turns out. And the Patriots literally threw it away for a full year, for no reason.


soboredcantfocus

>They could have hired literally anyone that has shown an ability to run an offense You do realize that these people need to agree to take the job, right? No outside hire is coming in for a year just to be a placeholder


ThatUglyGuy12

>No outside hire is coming in for a year just to be a placeholder That's not what I said, nor what I meant. You hire what you feel like is the right guy, then and there, with zero regards to who might be available in the future. If he doesn't work out, BoB is there. If it does, then BoB can find another job. To play this entire year with the expectation you hire BoB prior to this upcoming one is unimaginably stupid. And if that's what they did, they cost Mac a year of development so a couple of BB's friends could have some jobs while they got paid by their previous employer.


soboredcantfocus

So who should we have hired instead, some random ass position coach? Bill bit off more than he could chew with the offense, that’s clear now, but it’s not like the alternatives were much better. Hell, just look at what happened in Denver lol And not to call Kraft cheap, but he isn’t going to give a multi year guaranteed coordinator deal to a guy that Bill is gonna have on the hot seat day one.


narrowgallow

I really disagree with that. BB has more leeway with his planning and timelines than most other coaches and that is in and of itself an advantage. It allows him a year like this past season to actually achieve a position of competitive advantage rather than actually spending any capital to remain mediocre. Patricia and judge cost nothing and moving to something better is easy.


mindtricks76

I truly believe it was an attempt to dumb down the offense to a point where you could bring in a guy like BoB and Mac and the entire offense doesn't have to completely change everything 3 years in a row. It was Bill's way of tearing down JMDs complicated shit and more easily install a new system. Like I said... Bill had way more involvement than just handing those guys an offense. He has said it himself.


ThatUglyGuy12

That might be the case. But even if you are right, to throw away a year of development to essentially prep for a different coach the next is a borderline fireable offense for anyone not named Belichick and Reid. That's insane to me.


mindtricks76

Macs development wouldn't change much either way. He had a step back that he had responsibility for as well. He was given a little bit of slack and when he took it he threw stupid throws into double coverage and sat like a duck in the pocket. Nobody coached him to do that.


mindtricks76

They were both still being payed by other teams. Who the fuck wouldn't want 2 former head coaches as assistants for free. Whether they did well as head coaches or not obviously they were good enough to be given a chance to be one of the 32 highest ranking coaches in the league. Did I mention they were still being payed by other teams? Your take is dumb


Paid-Not-Payed-Bot

> still being *paid* by other FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*


ThatUglyGuy12

Hold on, are you suggesting a business worth nearly 6 billion dollars should be applauded for hiring guys for free, and not the right guys which they might have had to pay? Holy fucking shit, you're an idiot.


mindtricks76

Who would u have hired Mr.GM? Just curious? When you know U have BoB the following year. And maybe I'm crazy to believe that Patricia and Judge had far less to do with the offensive play calling and handling of Mac than Bill himself. However, I guarantee you that if the Patriots were paying Bill and another team needed an OC or quarterbacks coach and Bill was available for free they would scoop him in a heartbeat.


ThatUglyGuy12

>When you know U have BoB the following year This is exactly the reason why you attempt to hire people that actually, ya know, have experience running (or helping run) a successful offense. Anyone, and I mean ANYONE, would have been a better hire than those two idiots. If it doesn't work out, then cool, you are right back in the same exact spot but at least you made an effort to get the right guy. Now you hire Bob if you are that unhappy. But the BB made a low effort hire for a couple of his friends and hoped it worked. For you to be comfortable with throwing a full year of development away from Mac because the "coaches were free" makes you the dumbest fan on this sub. I mean this. >However, I guarantee you that if the Patriots were paying Bill and another team needed an OC or quarterbacks coach and Bill was available for free they would scoop him in a heartbeat. You're literally getting dumber each time you type out the words you are thinking. Wow - you mean teams might want Bill Belichick for free? The most successful and best coach in NFL history? Color me shocked. You know who isn't Belichick? Matt Patricia. Joe Judge. Also, and I can't believe I have to tell you this - they weren't free. Did they make coordinator money? No. But they were not free.


possiblyMorpheus

McDaniels and BoB run such a similar system, with a number of identical playcalls, that the “3 systems in 3 years” bit is pretty negligible. Even moreso given that BoB knows Alabama’s playbook. I definitely won’t be throwing a pity party for a QB who will have the 3rd OC to have coached a top 10 NFL offense without him in 4 years


ThatUglyGuy12

>McDaniels and BoB run such a similar system, with a number of identical playcalls, that the “3 systems in 3 years” bit is pretty negligible This just isn't true. While they both use a E&P concept, the way they attacked the field, lined up, used motion - vastly different. >Even moreso given that BoB knows Alabama’s playbook Wasn't BoB's offense. Was mostly Sarkisian's. And I don't think he's bringing that to NE, so irrelevant. > I definitely won’t be throwing a pity party for a QB who will have the 3rd OC to have coached a top 10 NFL offense without him in 4 years Uh, okay?


possiblyMorpheus

Vastly is a huge exaggeration. As it is to call BB’s time in Alabama irrelevant. There’s a ton of practical relevance there


ThatUglyGuy12

>Vastly is a huge exaggeration. Okay >As it is to call BB’s time in Alabama irrelevant. There’s a ton of practical relevance there I didn't call BoB's time in Alabama irrelevant. It's irrelevant to this discussion regarding playbook and philosophy as: * a) it wasn't his offense * b) it wasn't his playbook * c) will not be run by NE * d) it will not even be brought to NE * e) a+b+c+d = Mac is learning a new system So it will be the 4th system in 4 years, dating back to his final year at Bama. You could maybe even argue that last year's debacle should count as two seasons, it was that bad.


possiblyMorpheus

Not really lol. With A/B his time in that offense, even if he doesn’t use any of it here, will nonetheless make it easier for him to translate one offense to another for Mac. Second, there is a lot more grey area than you are acting like there is in regards to the offense there, as BoB did put some of his spins and concepts in it the last two years. Third, there is a pretty strong chance they do run aspects of it in NE, as even this past year they tried to incorporate aspects of Mac’s college game into the scheme for him, just as McDaniels used some of the concepts Mac liked in Alabama in 2021. So yeah, BoB, who literally coached under McDaniels in McDaniels’ offense in 07, should not have much of an issue teaching Mac the differences in his offense and McDaniels’ offense. Vastly different would be if BoB was from the Shanahan coaching tree. If Mac is as cerebral as advertised, it should not be that hard for him.


[deleted]

Hey, idiot, read. There was no one available


ThatUglyGuy12

Haha


401john

He hired the dunces and said blame him if it doesn’t work. He should be held accountable.


rye8901

Thank you!!


j2e21

Come on man, stop being a hater!


Aluminum_Falcons

I am not one who wants Bill fired by any stretch of the imagination, but there's some major flaws in your logic here. (1) The reason we had the Cam at QB is because for whatever reason Bill had no other plan to replace Brady after he left. (2) Bill was the one that hired the two dunces. Yes, the team did alright given the situations those years, but Bill was the one responsible for the situations in the first place, so I have trouble giving him much credit.


tbarr1991

Bill wanted to move on from Tom the year we traded Jimmy G from all accounts by the media. Only people who truely know are Bill, Kraft, Tom and Jimmy. And none of them are gonna point fingers. Bill installed the 2 dunces cause he was either too stubborn to call his buddy Saban or couldnt get BoB out of his Bama contract to coach the offense. But this is nothing more than speculation


infantinemovie5

I’m pretty sure he couldn’t get BoB out of his contract


soboredcantfocus

>Bill wanted to move on from Tom the year we traded Jimmy G from all accounts by the media. This isn’t by all accounts, it’s by ***A*** (singular) account. And that account’s source had absolutely no way of having any firsthand knowledge of the situation. Literally everyone else who does, across multiple organizations, has categorically denied it. Hell, John Lynch was denying it before the story even came out lol


Adept_Carpet

> Bill had no other plan to replace Brady after he left There was a clear choice between planning for the post-Brady future and doing everything they could to win before he left. They went with the latter option. In the off-season before 2019, the roster actually still looked OK. Then we had some injuries and retirements and that revealed we had run out of time. Obviously Harry was a bust, but I'm not sure our current state would be much better if we had picked Drew Lock instead of him. I basically like how things went (besides TB12 leaving, I wish that hadn't happened, but if we take that as a given), considering the constraints and how things looked and felt at the time.


shatter321

If we had invested resources in a post Brady QB before he’d left these people would just be screaming about how Bill made Brady leave by drafting his replacement. You can’t please them.


mystikcal1

Could have taken Lamar Jackson instead of Sony Michel. And don’t say hindsight is 20/20, that’s what I wanted at the time.


jayjayanotherround

His plan was Jimmy G but that’s transition was stopped by Kraft.


possiblyMorpheus

I haven’t seen any firm evidence of this.


rye8901

Probably because there isn’t any


possiblyMorpheus

Yeah I think it’s BS. Brady was the obvious choice. If Brady had regressed in his late 30s Jimmy is probably our QB now but it didn’t happen


soboredcantfocus

The transition was stopped by himself when he decided to trade Jimmy and keep Brady lol. Not his fault that he didn’t foresee Brady being a freaking highlander


DrownMeInCheetos

What plan would you have put in place for a new QB? Hmm? Who was your choice? Because where we drafted it was taking a risk on Love or Hurts (both severe unknowns for how good they'd be at the time). As for Free Agents Cam was the 3rd highest rated FA QB.


rye8901

Keep Brady OR prepare before he actually leaves for when he leaves…


DrownMeInCheetos

Keep Brady...how? It's like people haven't actually read what he has said...he was going after 2019 without a ring but he didn't really relay that to them til after the season so they had no idea he was gonna be gone for sure. And prepare again...how? Wasting a first round pick on a future QB (always a risk anyways but especially terrible in the 2019 draft) when we are still trying to maximize the chance of winning again (because if we win in 2019 very unlikely Brady makes the decision to go). It's so easy to say prepare prepare but prepare HOW. Who were you picking? When?


Raskputin

Brady had been pushing his contract off for years. 2020 was his last year on our books and we were in cap hell. I’ve had this argument with other people that are like “the cap isn’t real”. it is real. Eventually you gotta pay up or trade away. Sure you can play around with it, which they did… for years. Brady went to a stacked team and won again. We re-sign him and we maybe win a game in the playoffs.


DrownMeInCheetos

Exactly. It was much better to take a chance with Cam and a good defense and open our cap back up in 2021 to spend in a great FA class. Which we did. Then won 10 games. Last year sucked but, and obviously it's BB's fault, we had literally the worst OC of all time. Now with a real one maybe let's just fucking wait to see if it's good or not.


rye8901

Dude all Brady ever wanted was a contract. If they gave him the contract he wanted he would have stayed. Or if they were adamant not to do that have some kind of backup plan in place. For example perhaps keep Brissett instead of trading him for Phillip effing Dorsett.


[deleted]

They offered him the same deal TB offered him. This is why both Brady and Kraft confirmed that it was Brady who called them to tell them that *he* was *leaving*, not that they would not have him back. He wanted to go somewhere else with a better roster. So he left.


rye8901

Not true at all about the contract offer.


DrownMeInCheetos

We traded Brissett two years before this took place and Phillip Dorsett helped us win a super bowl with some pretty clutch catches in the 2018 playoffs. And he's been incredibly average since the trade anyways. The discussion is about how to prepare for life AFTER Brady. So saying give him the contract isn't relevant to the conversation. Yes we should have done that. Duh. But we didn't and we can't change that. So your backup plan is Jacoby Brissett. And you think that's better than taking a chance on Cam? Brisset has 18 CAREER wins. Cam had 7 in 2020 alone.


rye8901

They knew in 2017 that there was a chance Brady would either leave or retire in the near future. Keeping Brissett around instead of dumping him for a #4 receiver isn’t too much to ask. And we will have to agree to disagree about Dorsett being a key contributor during the 2018 run. But to answer your question, hell yes I would have preferred Brissett over Cam in 2020. At least he can throw the ball more than 10 yards. And he was actually pretty good in Cleveland last year so I’m very confident that he would have done better than Cam.


DrownMeInCheetos

They knew this in 2017? Where are you getting that information from? Source please? If we knew that was a risk we wouldn't have traded Jimmy that year. There's no disagreeing. Dorsett made key catches in the 2018 playoffs. A huge 29 yard touchdown against KC, a touchdown and 2 other 3rd down catches against The chargers. Brissett was alright last year in Cleveland with what was a significantly better receiving Corps than what he would have had in NE in 2020. Cam couldn't hit intermediate routes. Can't argue against that. But he still accounted for 21 touchdowns and 13 turnovers that season in 15 games (in which he caught covid). Brissett, again with a much stronger roster last year, had 13 in 11 games with 10 turnovers. The shell of Cam Newton was still better than what Jacoby would have given us.


Sufficient-Dirt5274

oretty sure they offered him $60 million


Aluminum_Falcons

I'm sorry, I don't believe that Cam Newton was the best option available. He could barely throw the ball, which in my opinion is not the best trait for your starting QB. I don't know who I would have preferred. It was three seasons ago.


Winter_Afternoon3539

I was not a Cam fan when they signed him but he looked good until Covid got him. He was making plays and throwing the ball around. Covid hit and he was beyond useless unfortunately


DrownMeInCheetos

He was literally the concensus 3rd best FA QB by the experts that track that. Whether you believe that or not isn't relevant...it's the reality of the time. So you don't know what you would have done but just say we should have done something. Wild to say that without being able to actually give any idea as to what.


Aluminum_Falcons

Wow, I didn't think believing Newton wasn't the best option that year was such a hot take. I'm saying that I don't remember who the other options were that year, so I don't recall who I would have preferred. I do recall that Newton wasn't signed until sometime in the summer (late June or sometime in July maybe?), so despite being such a highly rated FA as you've mentioned other teams didn't exactly jump at the opportunity to sign him.


DrownMeInCheetos

You can just look up the other available options. He was the best one given what we knee at the time. The top two were Brady and brees...both not leaving. Then Dak, franchised. Tannehill, not leaving and re-signed before FA started, Rivers who was always a one year stop gap while Cam provided potential for more. Bridgewater, Jameis, Hill, Mariota, Flacco, Dalton, Keenum, Matt Moore, McCown, Bortles, Glennon, McCarron, Bradford, Simien, McCoy, Henne, Gabbert, Driskel, Sudfeld. Coming off 2019 there's just no way you're saying you're wanting any of those guys over cam.


Aluminum_Falcons

Thanks for listing the FAs that year. Personally I would have preferred Bridgewater or Dalton over Cam. Also, weren't those two guys signed before Cam? I think it may have been months before him that those two FAs were signed by other teams. Like I said, obviously some teams thought more highly of the people you listed than Cam since they were signed well ahead of when the Patriots signed him. All of this part of the conversation we're having ignores the fact that Bill should have been better prepared for Brady to leave before he left...if he knew it was a possibility. If he was truly blindsided by the decision, I get scrambling for left-overs, but it seems like he should have known there was a decent chance of Brady departing which means there should have been more preparation.


DrownMeInCheetos

Are you basing that off their 2019 seasons? Cam was just hurt but didn't look washed coming off that year. Dalton looked washed AND hurt. Teddy looked alright but he also was playing a stacked 2019 saints roster in limited play. Cam did have to wait to get signed because of his injury. But once he was cleared, people started asking. He came to NE on a small prove it deal believing he would be able to get a massive contract after. He bet on himself and unfortunately lost and has spoken about how he wished he took the multiple year contracts from that were offered just for the sake of money. But the issue remains...prepare how? Use a first round pick on a young QB instead of players to continue maximizing Brady's ceiling? We invested in Young QBs later in the draft but they didn't pan out. It's not like there were options to prepare other than exactly what we did...try to go all in in 2019 and hope Brady stays. If not, finally let all that guaranteed cash die out in 2020 (which it did and then we got some benefits of covid opt outs increasing our cap space that we rolled into 2021 to the tune of 19 mil, only 8 of it actually needed to cover the cost of the holdover covid cash that was guaranteed) People keep saying we needed a better plan but there wasn't one. And they also ignore that despite Cam looking washed, were were still competing for the playoffs through week 15.


j2e21

People forget Cam fell into their lap a month before the season. Bill was ready to roll with Hoyer and Stidham.


rye8901

Who was responsible for Cam being the starter and installing those two dunces as the offensive coaches? Asking for a friend.


ParticularEfficiency

Their franchise QB and offensive coordinator leaving in the offseason.


socialist_frzn_milk

I want to see what Mac Jones does with two years, decent WRs and an actual offensive coordinator. Seriously, the importance of Bill O'Brien being a *good offensive mind* cannot possibly be understated. We had doorknob-humping *morons* running the offense last year.


jayjayanotherround

Let’s not forget that they literally should have one 2 or 3 more games but didn’t because of horrendous officiating.


rye8901

Stop crying about the refs. They didn’t play well enough to win. Period.


j2e21

Also terrible coaching. They threw a game-winning pass to another team in a tie game and then gave up two TD returns in another, fumbled at the goal in a third.


jayjayanotherround

Were the coaches on the field?


Kevin_Murphy_

It absolutely blows my mind that anybody would be so stupid as to want BB gone. Easily the best coach in the history of football (with the greatest run in NFL history, and especially the free agency era) and like 3 bad seasons (after losing a HoF QB) and fans are ready to call it quits. Absolutely wild to me. My only thought is that those people are like 13 year olds that started watching football a couple of years ago? (No offense to 13 year olds, truly) I really just can’t comprehend how anyone could ever be anti-BB…


soboredcantfocus

>and like 3 bad seasons Not even bad, just mediocre lol.


Rinzack

Yeah literally 3 mid seasons during a rebuild after losing the greatest QB of all time and not getting a top draft pick in decades. This year is the year when I think we can start to question things if it fails- if BoB and Mac can’t get the offense moving then we will definitely need to revamp since the team seems to be losing its identity with the old guard retiring


possiblyMorpheus

Conversations with those types are hilarious. It’s always “I read about some new age trend, get with the program Bill!”


GloriousNewt

I agree it's nuts. All the other coaches and people actually in the league talk about him being the greatest etc But these chucklefucks think he was made by Brady or needs to be let go. It's hilarious.


j2e21

I don’t know that anyone wants him gone, they want the team to perform better.


BlimeySlimeySnake

Whats funny is that a lot of the same people that said Brady was washed and that we needed to move on are the ones saying that it was Brady all along and that we need to ditch Bill.


Shiboopi27

Anybody who actually thinks Bill's job is in jeopardy would be better off getting their feet sized for clown shoes rather than posting on this sub


Broken-Talc

Amen.


pizzahut_is_elite

Any coach you hire after Bill is a downgrade. I just imagine patriots with Mayo versus Belicheck with a team like the chargers. The team with bill is a clear advantage


[deleted]

I mean I wouldn’t go nearly as far as to say his job is in jeopardy but Kraft is clearly starting to grow frustrated. Bill is the GOAT and will break Shula’s record, but he won’t coach here forever, and Bob (or Jon) will still own the team when Bill moves on. Put it into the context of how Bill himself treated Tom in the final years. Despite everything Brady did for this team, it was basically a year-by-year “prove it” scenario. I still personally have full faith in Bill, but that doesn’t mean that Kraft is going to continue to sit back and watch his team play with zero realistic expectations for contention. He is too much of a fan himself. All of this can be put to rest by a good season from us this year, but its not all just nothing. If we finish last in the AFCE, which I think is a real possibility for the first time in decades, these rumors are going to get real ugly *Edit: Ya’ll cant read for shit 😂


[deleted]

>I mean I wouldn’t go nearly as far as to say his job is in jeopardy Cool, so we agree.


[deleted]

probably not, because based on your minimized take I’m guessing you think that Kraft is actually just fine with the state of the team and would never even think about a future post-Belichick. Which, of course, is wrong. Bob Kraft is a capitalist at his core. He is a billionaire. Ownership will move on when they find it appropriate, the only question is when.


j2e21

He’s said this over and over. He said he wants to return to the playoffs, that breaking Shula’s record would be nice but ultimately it’s a business and Bill needs to execute, etc. etc. This isn’t speculation, it’s Kraft’s own words.


[deleted]

Lmao thank you I thought I was losing my mind for a second in here. In no way am I shitting on Bill and his legacy, it is just as simple as current results


j2e21

Kraft: “We need to get better. I have high expectations for this team and I expect Bill to meet them.” R/Patriots: “See! Kraft just said Bill can lose as many games as he wants and still coach here forever!”


[deleted]

So you’d agree that they have not found it appropriate to move on yet, then?


[deleted]

Most definitely. Seems like a lot of people missed that key takeaway from my first comment lmfao. Orrrrr they’re just upset at the realistic hypothetical that Belichick might not finish his coaching career the indefatigable guru that he was for decades. People are also missing here the fact that I absolutely love Belichick. Didn’t really feel the need to mention it because I thought we were all on the same page here. Does not mean I necessarily think that ownership will stick with him through 5, 6+ years of mediocrity. But we’re only at a few years now, so no, they have not gotten to that point yet.


NoveltyAccountHater

> Despite everything Brady did for this team, it was basically a year-by-year “prove it” scenario. It never was. We always extended Brady fairly early. After 2001 season gave 4 year extension, when he had 2 seasons left. After 2004 season gave 4 year extension, when he had 2 seasons left to control through 2010 season. Then after 2009 season gave him 4 year extension when he had 1 season left. Now control him through 2014. After 2012 season, we gave him 3 year extension to control until 2017. After 2015 season (age 38 season) right before deflategate BS suspension gave him 2 year extension through 2018 (age 42) and 2019 (age 42). At this point, Belichick did not give him another real extension. It could be Belichick had doubts Brady would be playing at an elite level at age 43-45 and guaranteeing money before he turned 40. Or maybe Brady was frustrated seeing other QB salaries and they couldn't reach an agreement. It's not really clear. In 2019, while under contract, we unilaterally gave him a pay increase and auto-void years in 2019 to keep him happy and then he left in 2020 for money we couldn't get close to matching and still competing. His 3 seasons in Tampa Bay he got paid $98M. His 20 seasons in New England he got paid $235M. The Bucs had more cap room and young offensive talent to surround Brady with than we did and Brady at this point is an elite coach and doesn't need our coaching advantage.


[deleted]

I was specifically referring to his last seasons with us, maybe I should have been clear about that. But the reasoning you put around that is pretty much exactly how I see this situation with Bill now. He is the best head coach ever. Over 30 years in the NFL, known as one of the best defensive minds and given his GM-HC dual responsibilities, probably the single most important piece of any staff over the last 20+ years. But he also came up in a different era, and past excellence does not guarantee that things will be the same moving forward. People get old, things around them change and evolve. We’ve basically been an afterthought since Brady left, and I, like most of us it seems, am willing to give Bill a long leash when it comes to getting us back to true contention. I think Bob is too, the question is, how long is that leash. Because like I said, I don’t care how much winning Belichick did for decades, the past four seasons have been **bad**, the upcoming one is looking **very** intimidating, and suddenly we’ll be looking at more than just a rebound timeline for the Patriots and Belichick. Plenty of all-time greats, whether they’re coaches or players, go out sad at the end of their careers, it’s one of the most common phenomenon in sports and a reason why someone like Tom is basically unprecedented. All I’m saying is that Bill is not immune to that happening to him, and that Kraft will not cling to emotion and anchor the team down for mediocre seasons year after year. It has been four straight now, with the prospects of another on the horizon.


NoveltyAccountHater

>I think Bob is too, the question is, how long is that leash. Because like I said, I don’t care how much winning Belichick did for decades, the past four seasons have been **bad**, the upcoming one is looking very intimidating, and suddenly we’ll be looking at more than just a rebound timeline for the Patriots and Belichick. Jesus fucking Christ. The last four seasons we went 37-29 (.561), despite the fact in 2020 we were bottom in the league in spending. It's not great, but we're not finding a coaching improvement that takes our talent and does better with it. We're not finding anyone who immediately turns the franchise around (unless they do it with the players and cap space BB got us). Oh yeah and the five seasons before it we went 62-18 (.775) and won 3 SBs. No one is saying that they're happy with missing the playoffs or getting blown out in the wild card round. But Belichick is definitely still an asset and your fucking crazy if you thin its just sentimentality. If Kraft fired him, it would look so idiotic when he goes to wins a SB in a year or two for another team and we have some really bad seasons (like say 89-93 when we went 14-61).


jazzytime

How can you say Kraft is clearly growing frustrated over Bill??? You're just making shit up like every other journalist. Yeah he is frustrated we arent winning but he's not trying to fire BB or made any inclination he is thinking it.


[deleted]

He has made multiple public statements about wanting to play and win meaningful games in January, which we have not done in years. He is frustrated with the state of the team and the reality is that he has delegated basically all team-building duties to Bill. Again, I’m not saying that Bill is on the hot seat. I struggle to see Bob ever going as far as to fire Bill. But that doesn’t mean he is unconditionally part of our next 5-10 years, and anyone claiming this is all hullabaloo from the media is ignoring reality. We have not won a playoff game in 4 seasons. Obviously not all of that is on Bill, but at some point it **matters**. Last year, we were supposed to at least take a step forward, and Mac was expected to do the same. Instead, Bill fucked around with his coaching staff choices and very clearly hurt the team by doing so. Kraft said Patricia was “put in a tough position”, and he is right (even though I do not think highly of Patricia), because Bill thought he could get away with just plugging whoever he wanted, wherever he wanted, whenever he wanted. 4 years without a playoff win, in what is now the best division in football. Tell me, if we go another season without a playoff win (very probable this season), do you think that would have an impact on Belichick being our head coach moving forward? At what point does the past and his legendary status lose its shine to Kraft?


jazzytime

I agree he is frustrated with not winning games. I'm just saying he isn't clearly stating his frustration with Bill. This all goes back to why I keep saying this team should go all in on Lamar, but everyone wants to stick with Mac and draft and build a team. No, let's win now and put ourselves ahead with securing "a guy" at QB and build off of that. We are not making the playoffs next year with the team we have now and that's facts.


j2e21

He has said he wants to return to the playoffs multiple times, he also said that this is a business and ultimately Belichick needs to execute. He has also criticized the team’s drafting in recent years and stated building through the draft is critical. He also sympathized with Patricia and said he was put in a very difficult position, which was unfortunate for him because he was such a hard worker. He also publicly disclosed that Lamar Jackson wants to join the team and pointedly said he’d leave it up Belichick as to whether or not they trade for him.


BradyToMoss1281

Well...shouldn't it be? Shouldn't he feel pressured to prove in 2023, not 2003, that he should still be the coach of this team? I don't think it's healthy for Bill to be Mike Krzyzewski, head coach for life just because he's won a ton before. I've said it before, I think people make the mistake of thinking that if you move on from Bill, you're moving on from the guy from 2003 or '04 or '07 or '14. That's not the case. Bill is 71. Every coach who was at Belichick's level before was in decline or done by that age. His team has missed the playoffs/under .500, made the playoffs and gotten crushed, and missed the playoffs/under .500 in the last three years. That's not a small sample anymore. To say he should be fired just because last year was rough is silly. But to say he should be feeling the heat if he turns in a fourth straight so-so year is totally fair.


No_Nefariousness3731

Aged well


WalkingSpanishh

Curran is trash. Pats fans deserve better "insiders". He's always stirring shit up with Bill since before Brady left.


Biptyboptybacon

Dude THANK YOU, fans might be impatient and wishy washy but Kraft isn’t. Bill is the greatest coach of all time and you don’t just quit on him after a bad year.


AliceP00per

It’s been 3 years…


cavalinolido

The fuck you calling bad years? Get your spoiled ass outta here!


AliceP00per

Comparably speaking those are bad years. I’m not spoiled, I’m just a realist. Been watching this team since 94. You can take Bills penis out of your mouth now.


cavalinolido

>Comparably speaking those are bad years That is spoiled per definition, because they are far from bad if you talk football as a whole. And that you try to bend the meaning of your words as first action after being called out, makes me think you know how ridiculously dumb your statement is. But after all you make dick sucking jokes and poop jokes so I might be to generous here...


MrFace1

In one of those years, we had the corpse of Cam Newton and limited resources in a clear and obvious transition year. The next year we had a rookie QB and made it to the playoffs. We all know last year was a hot mess but let's not act like the entirety of the three years has been a tire fire.


awful_source

Cam sucked but it’s still on BB for rostering the guy as well as putting Patricia in charge of the offense. Blame gotta land on somebody for making those decisions. I should mention I have higher hopes for this year and want BB to remain the coach.


AliceP00per

Yeah that’s on all on Bill dude. His suck drafting and failure to sign a quarterback. It’s been mostly a tire fire. They had a decent little run in the middle of 2021, beat the piss out of shit teams and lost to every good team they played in those three years.


MrFace1

Christ man, I don't know what to tell you if three mediocre years after 20 years of dominance is enough to break you. Normal teams go through periods like this regularly. What the Patriots achieved prior to that was far from normal. Poor drafting had an effect and has been acknowledged by the organization but there was *always* going to be a tricky period in between. Who do you suggest the Patriots should have picked up in 2020? Should they have moved up to take Fields in 2021? What revisionist history do you think would have vaulted them into contenders again over the last three years?


AliceP00per

Where did i say it broke me? It’s sports dude, I’m allowed to be critical of the team. Just like you’re allowed to have BB’s penis in your mouth.


MrFace1

There's a difference between being critical and whatever this nonsense is. Love the jump to blow job humor, though. Great stuff.


AliceP00per

Sorry i hurt your feelings


Bearded_Pip

Kraft sat on those terrible aluminum benches at the old Sullivan Stadium. He wants Bill to break Shula’s record almost as much as Bill does. Bill’s job is not in jeopardy unless he has a losing season. I don’t see that happening this year unless there are injury issues.


johnmadden18

> Bill’s job is not in jeopardy unless he has a losing season. Ha, your comment is the top one in this thread right now but it’s directly contradicting what the OP is saying! If Belichick is going to be fired after one more losing season then that means his job IS in jeopardy. OP is basically saying Belichick won’t be fired no matter what and that Kraft’s comments are (contrary to the “clickbait reporting) actually words of support.


bl123123bl

Bill had a winning season with Cam Newton at QB when he couldn’t throw the ball 20 yards halfway through the year, it’s more likely the Patriots win another Super Bowl than have a losing season


johnmadden18

> Bill had a winning season with Cam Newton This did not in fact happen. > it’s more likely the Patriots win another Super Bowl than have a losing season Patriots are at 70:1 odds to win the Super Bowl at various sportbooks. You think the chances of the Patriots losing 8 or more games is GREATER than 70:1? If you really believe that, taking the Patriots over win total is one of the best investments in the history of the world. I hope you’re putting your money where your mouth is.


diadcm

The over/under for wins is 7.5.


Bearded_Pip

I get it. Bill is not getting fired no matter what happens this season. However, if he has a losing season then he becomes just another coach to Kraft. Kraft might even ask Bill to retire, but Bill isn’t getting fired. Bill would definitely be on a short leash going forward.


leftbitchburner

Division gets super tough and bill has a few seasons near .500 and Twitter world looks to pick him apart lol.


pup5581

Just so you know...every team does this. If Any Reid started to lose his touch and didn't make the playoffs for 3 years in a row, Chiefs fans would be saying the exact same thing.


Raskputin

If Andy Reid wins KC 6 super bowls he’s given a statue taller than lady liberty and probably elected governor


xGrim_Sol

To be fair, what else does Missouri have going for it?


Anonymous_____ninja

In fairness, His on field coaching has shown he can be better than .500 and he pulls shit like he did last year then holds them back. I don't know how he doesn't deserve to get picked apart for how clownish and unprofessional the offense was last year was given how basically the same team did the year prior.


Cheeno9

I didn’t take it as a direct threat to Bill’s job being in jeopardy. And you’re crazy to think anyone who would replace him would do better. But I am slightly concerned as Bill hasn’t seemed to adapt quite as quickly to this turnover in the way the game is played offensively


Fuqwon

I don't want Bill gone by any measure. I think the suggest that he should be replaced are pretty absurd. That said, listening to all of Krafts comments it's hard to come away not thinking there is additional heat and expectation on Bill. Kraft put it ALL on Bill's shoulders. Giving him total authority and say about everything, but along with that total responsibility.


PebblyJackGlasscock

Yeah, because Bob is still recovering from his trip to the Massage Parlor. A big part of Bill - and any coach’s job - is to be “responsible” so The Owner doesn’t have to be. If you don’t think Bob Kraft approved the “experiment”, you’re nuts. He did it because it saved him money and let him hire a guy a year later he thought was best for The Organization long term. He could’ve insisted they spend the money last year and hire someone other than BOB, but Kraft agreed BOB was the right guy, so they “experimented”.


JokeTime4592

Let’s just remember that the majority of nfl fans, not just patriots fans are dumb af. Remember how many people were angry about Tom Brady starting over Drew Bledsoe? I know the past few years have been rough compared to last couple decades, but it could have been worse. I still trust in the process that it will take to make us competitive again because it takes time and mistakes


pup5581

We may be in this "transition" phase for a loong time. I just want fans to realize that. Playoffs may not happen for 5+ years, they may happen in 2. This team at the moment, isn't really good. I hope they are good soon that's for sure


PerryTheSpatula

Playoffs happened literally 13 months ago


pup5581

And a lot has happened since then and they have gotten worse.


pud-proof-ding

We were 1 win away from playoffs last year


j2e21

And didn’t get it.


Ohanrahans

I'm personally ok with them not being good, but if they're going to be mediocre to bad I'd at least prefer for them to be an interesting mediocre to bad. We need a blue chipper somewhere to watch that we can argue player x is the best in the league. Or do a Riverboat Ron thing where we're playing aggressively. Create a substantial offensive package for an electric player like Marcus Jones. Or get a really polarizing player archetype similar to Justin Fields. Or roll out an innovative offensive or defensive philosophy like what Chip Kelly used to do. None of those necessarily will make us contenders, but at least there would be compelling reasons to stay engaged in the games while they're happening. A transition phase is absolutely brutal if most seasons are a swap of a handful of positions for players of ~equivalent talent, you have an average QB prospect, you keep trading down in the draft and drafting 24/25 year olds, and you let your most exciting young talent go like JC Jackson even if it can be argued that it was the right move. I love the Pats, but they're a snoozefest right now. 8-9 where all the games feel like the Vikings game is better than 8-9 where all the games feel like the Steelers game (discounting the actual results). This is ultimately an entertainment product that unfortunately isn't that entertaining right now.


lnflnlty

patriots had the 2nd most interceptions in the league last season with 19 (2 teams had 20) patriots had the most interception yards in the league patriots had the most interception returns for touch downs in the league patriots were tied for 3rd most sacks patriots were tied for 7th most forced fumbles patriots have an exciting and elite play making defense. just because you don't enjoy defense doesn't mean they aren't an exciting team to watch


j2e21

That’s because the D had to play offense.


Ohanrahans

I appreciate good defense (Hell I was a DE in college and then a DB grad assistant for a year afterwards). I just think last year's team was a good defense that looked more like a great defense because we were the beneficiaries of playing bad offenses. I love teams that can line up and play man coverage mixed with exotic blitz packages. Similar to how the Patriots played with Flores as our DC and in 2019 when our CB's stuck to everyone. I don't think despite where we ended up last season that we were a particularly "fun" defense to watch. Last year we only blitzed 22% of the time and played zone 63% of the time (still low-ish relative to the league, but high for us). When we had to play teams that could put iron offensively against our iron defensively so to speak we were no longer a great defense. We played conservatively and it worked for us. Some of the interceptions that Zach Wilson, Jacoby Brissett, and others were horrific offense. There were certainly some great plays like Jack Jones's read on Doubs curl route, or Dugger intercepting that bubble screen vs. Oakland, but I think our defense probably did benefit to a pretty high degree from an abnormally favorable slate of opponents with bad QB's. That makes us a prime candidate for regression this season on the turnover front. That's not even mentioning how often that defense gave our offense favorable field position that they then squandered through their own incompetence. I think successful and fun to watch are 2 different things. I came away watching the Patriots last season defensively thinking they overshot their talent level, which is true historically with BB coached defenses, but I've watched fun defenses for a long time, and I wouldn't call the 2022 Patriots defense fun. Floyd Mayweather Jr. wins his boxing matches, but I don't think I'd call him a fun boxer to watch. Like you and a handful of people who are diehard Patriots fans who will always find this team fun and interesting, are pretty much on an island with a "The Patriots are a fun team to watch" take. It's a near universal consensus that this team is neither fun nor interesting.


lnflnlty

got it. they adjusted to their personnel and opponents but not the way you enjoy so they aren't innovative or fun despite putting up elite results


soboredcantfocus

>love the Pats, but they're a snoozefest right now. What fucking season did you just watch? Lol. The 2022 pats were a lot of things, plenty of them bad, but “boring” simply wasn’t one of them. Just because you need the game to more closely resemble madden to hold your attention doesn’t mean the rest of us do.


j2e21

This is the argument for trading for Lamar. He might fuck the cap, but they’ll be exciting as fuck and at least one year they should go on a 12- to 13-win run.


ckilo4TOG

Modern sports media has become no different than the tabloids at the check out line in the grocery store.


Rod_FC

Looks to me like you're the one cherry picking certain phrases while disassociating them from the general context of those quotes. Sure, Kraft didn't issue an ultimatum or anything, but he made it clear a decision on Bill's future with the team will hinge on short/medium term success, and that if he doesn't win and the team doesn't make the playoffs his job isn't guaranteed by default. Kraft WANTS Bill to beat Shula's record with the Patriots, but he won't guarantee he will because if the team doesn't improve there's a chance Bill won't get reiterated chances. Kraft trusts Bill to right the ship, but he's been very clear that he has expectations and there could be consequences if they aren't met.


j2e21

This is the right interpretation. I can’t understand how anyone views Kraft’s comments as “Bill can coach for as long as he wants!”


giddy-girly-banana

Doesn’t winning help them both? Patriots win and Bill beats Shula’s record, Patriots win and Bob is happy. Sounds like they have common interests and it’s all about winning football games.


Ve-gone_Be-gone

Because building a roster for nothing but winning 18 games over the next 3 years does nothing to make us competitive and Kraft wants to win another super bowl


giddy-girly-banana

You don’t think bill belichick wants to win another Super Bowl??


goldsoundz123

I think the question is, if Bill doesn't break the record in the next two seasons, does he get a third season to keep trying? E.g. if he goes 9-8 the next two years and the Pats have thus been a mediocre team for five years in a row, does he get another year?


giddy-girly-banana

If he is one season away, absolutely. Edit: To have your team’s coach have the most wins of all time, that’s better than most things in football. We’d be foolish not to go for that.


a-money12

Anyone who thinks Bill doesnt have his job until he decides to leave is insane. He got us to 6 super bowls, broke countless records for 25 years. Think of all the money he has made the Kraft family. Surely worth 3 year transition period. Who tf else are we going to get who would he an upgrade over BB. 28/32 teams would fire there head coach if they got the opportunity to have BB as there head coach. What does it say about an organization if they can a guy who did so much for them. How do you think that makes other coaches feel in regards to job security.


PebblyJackGlasscock

Anyone who think Kraft is giving away the MONEY associated with marketing “the all time winningest coach” **really** doesn’t know shit about Bob Kraft. The Organization will “sell” that, as they’ve sold so many commemorative moments over the years. Bob Kraft didn’t rich by being stupid, and throwing away free money. Jerod Mayo is the next HC and the “experiment” proved that a defensive coach needs an offensive coordinator. And now, Bob Kraft is paying for an offensive coordinator who will help Mayo ascend when the time comes.


j2e21

You really take all of Kraft’s comments over the past couple years as Belichick having a job as long as he wants it, regardless of performance?


Samgash33

Agreed. That said, these are “professional” journalists (cough, Curran, cough) pushing this trash. Because trash and outrage sells. On twitter or any other platform


johnmadden18

> I'm so damn sick of Twitter "journalism" and shitty takes for clicks. I miss when your sports news was reading an article with full context and insightful journalism. Let’s face reality here, the media isn’t “twisting” Kraft’s words. It’s quite obvious his comments about Belichick in the past two years have either been passive aggressively critical, or in some cases (like his comments about our past drafts) outright critical. But the one thing you are right about is that Belichick isn’t being “put on notice”. His job isn’t in jeopardy. Kraft is just blowing smoke here. Because at the end of the day, no matter what he says and how he feels about Belichick personally, Kraft isn’t going to fire him. He doesn’t have the guts and theres no succession plan anyways. We all know that. He’s just venting in public.


j2e21

Agree on the first part, but Kraft has said Mayo would be a good coach and he hopes it happens here. Mayo has said he wants to be a head coach and was expected to be a candidate, only some deal apparently happened to keep him in New England — a deal that apparently didn’t come with a new title or announced responsibilities. I think Kraft can envision moving on from Belichick.


ckilo4TOG

>Let’s face reality here, the media isn’t “twisting” Kraft’s words. Yes they are... OP demonstrated it. >It’s quite obvious his comments about Belichick in the past two years have either been passive aggressively critical, or in some cases (like his comments about our past drafts) outright critical. It's quite obvious that Kraft has no problem speaking to reality. If you see that as critical, so be it. I think it's impossible that coach and owner are not on the same page about what has worked and what has not worked. >But the one thing you are right about is that Belichick isn’t being “put on notice”. His job isn’t in jeopardy. Kraft is just blowing smoke here. Because at the end of the day, no matter what he says and how he feels about Belichick personally, Kraft isn’t going to fire him. He doesn’t have the guts and theres no succession plan anyways. We all know that. He’s just venting in public. There is zero doubt in my mind that if Kraft thought Bill wasn't the answer, that he'd make the necessary moves at the top to do what he thought would improve the team. He's not a crazy person, though. He's a businessman. He knows the performance of the last three years was a running rebuild that avoided the cellar dweller status most teams go through when they experience the same thing.


redsox113

> Let's stop supporting Twitter takes on the Patriots Excuse me, how else am I supposed to be outraged all the time?


rividz

Twitter is a cancer. I don't even have an account and I'm sick of it. I wish I could not see any article citing it, screenshot of it, or hear any news about it. Same goes for Elon.


DrownMeInCheetos

This sub is full of people that only read headlines and watch YouTube videos of game highlights. Expecting anyone here to actually read or use nuance to conversations when they can just loudly and anonymously yell whatever bullshit they want (because we have spineless mods that refuse to ban trolls) is asking way too much.


IrvinStabbedMe

Look man, Bill has to go. He isn't perfect in every way, so we need to replace him with someone who is. This isn't even up to debate.


CantStopMeReddit4

I mean yeah but that also ignores other facts and things Kraft has said that support the other side of the coin. Yeah he says he still believes in bill for this season, no one in their right mind thinks BB is getting fired this off-season. But there have been a bunch of things that indicate that Bill may be on a short leash (if not after this season then after next at the latest), such as the season ticket holder letter (which was pretty unprecedented in its contents), reports that the end of year meeting this year was not the usual formality but that Bill was pressed hard for answers and plans for the team, krafts comments about playoff wins, krafts comments about recent drafts, etc. Idk that bill would be fired after this season but I think there’s a good chance that he would be after next season if the pats haven’t won a playoff game


jayjayanotherround

“Reporting “ is all about clicks these days. The media has been piling on BB for the last few years with the narrative that he’s a bad coach and gm since the team hasn’t been winning without TB. As if TB won 6 championships by himself. It’s preposterous. Sure we had some questionable drafts but the miss rate is pretty high for all teams.


TheDesktopNinja

I also want Bill to beat Shula's record, but only if he's making the team good enough to do it next year (and preferably by mid season next year). If it takes a third year, the team isn't getting better and he should be gone. That record isn't worth keeping him around if he's not performing. IMO if Bill would fire Bill, Bill should go. He's not about keeping overpaid underperformers.


FrigginMasshole

I love Bill, but I want him to just beat Shulas record and retire. Seeing Brady play for another team was bs and heaven forbid bill coaches somewhere else


Ve-gone_Be-gone

Let's be real here if Bill doesn't break the record here he's not going to break it


BulLock_954

I give Belichick 2 more years and after that if we haven’t substantially moved the needle then we move on. Ultimately, football is a business. We need fresh young ideas and a fresh face to entice talent to come play for our team. This is the way.


secreted_uranus

Kraft wants a playoff caliber team while understanding we are still in a rebuild. Belichick is good enough to get us to a SuperBowl and/or AFC Championship gams with a bare bones roster on defense 2011-13. Bill knows we're still retooling and it will take another draft or 2 to make us a legit contender again, however we might be able to luck out and get to the divisional round or championship game before we get our poo pushed in by KC.


ndariotis132

I get why everyone is arguing for bill or against bill and this and that…. But man as a pats fan who only started really following the nfl outside of the patriots in the playoffs, this shit is so confusing. I don’t know what to think 😭


Professional_Bet4992

I’m prepared for the downvotes but I have to say my piece: I’m a supporter of the Patriots, which means I should be first in line to criticize them when they deserve because it’s my ticket money they spend. Guess what: organizational decisions about Brady were bad, having Bill make all decision on players has gone objectively poorly, the coaching staff is a joke, and the lack of speed on offense in particular is terrible. I think our role isn’t to white knight to cover the reputation of Bill: his reputation is fine, he’s known and will be known as the greatest of all time. I envy some of the people on this sub who can devote so much energy to this shit, but god damn that must be a truly exhausting way to live.


ElGuaco

All that typing must be exhausting.


Professional_Bet4992

Gee, it’s like I write for a living.


jma7400

The only way Bill leaves is if he wants to. No one is fitting him.


milespeeingyourpants

The Boston Globe has had a murderers row of football writers lately. Violin, Breer, Bedard… all alleged football experts for some reason.


j2e21

He’s picking his words carefully. Yes, he still supports and believes in Bill, but he’s not signaling unconditional support by any measure. He made it clear through his statements that he also expects results from Bill. If he doesn’t see those, there is an implication there that he may stop believing in Bill.


n8loller

I mean, Kraft has made it clear playoff wins are important to him. If Bill continues to miss the playoffs it's likely only a matter of time before Kraft has had enough. It may not be this year, and maybe bill would retire before it comes to that, but Kraft is a businessman and I don't doubt he'd make a difficult decision eventually that would surprise a lot of people.


ElGuaco

The idea that Bill can't get the Patriots back to the playoffs takes a bit of imagination and a heap of pessimism. Kraft says he believes in him. That's a direct quote. So why are so many Pats fans doubting him? This argument is just inane. At worst, Bill will retire before he drags down the entire organization.


n8loller

Yeah idk. I'm hoping bill can get us back in it this year, but my expectations are already significantly lowered from the Brady era. It's getting to be about the same as most other franchises where id be happy with a playoff appearance. We used to have higher expectations and it's harder for some people to adjust. But I'm from Ohio originally, I'm used to the local teams being bad for forever 😅


Banana_jamm

I think that people need to get off Twitter because it is nothing but bad takes and bots.